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Old September 15th, 2020, 12:49 PM   #1
Snowfox
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Default About gay culture

I have no idea where to post this but lets start here.
One friend came out from closet to me. I dont say his name because... of reasons.
He is most hmm normal looking lad you can think of.
Anyway we were fishing just me and him and we spend that night out there on forest near that certain river. We had some vodka with us and after drinking a bit he slowly started to open up.
I never knew that he is gay and how he has hopeless crush on this certain boy I know as well.
He started to tell me how this gayculture with all femininity and this all girly things that are shown in gayprides makes him sick.
Like he is afraid to come out because he doesnt want to have anything to do with that weird stuff. All he wants is to be with some real man and to be real man himself.
In this real man thing he likes masculinity. He likes fishing and hunting and all things like that. He isnt left wing by any means and because of it there is no place for him in gay scene.
Also those things are pretty unwoke so that also makes him persona non grata in official gay culture where you absolutelly have to be vegan and far left communist.

I know that all of you hate him by now but my point here is to possibly start conversation about ill effects of gaypride and how it puts gays (in this case just gays) into difficult position in case they dont buy every single thing in it.

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Old September 15th, 2020, 12:57 PM   #2
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Default Re: About gay culture

I think you are generalising somewhat in saying some of those things but i do understand what you mean. Its about detaching 'being gay' from 'being camp' as they dont have to be the same thing. I agree with some of the thing you say in how that whole culture can put gay people off if they dont want to have anything to do with that.

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Old September 16th, 2020, 08:22 PM   #3
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Default Re: About gay culture

Does being gay mean you have to be part of the "gay scene"? "Gay" is a sexual orientation--that's it. It doesn't say anything about your personality, your appearance, your political views, your likes and dislikes, etc. The rest is all stereotype. I know Christians who are liberal who've been told they're "denying Christ" by not supporting Trump. But it's not up to others to decide how you express a facet of your identity. They can't tell you who you are and who you're supposed to be. You're always going to have people who think because of one aspect of your identity, you must behave and think a certain way. Very few of us buy "every single thing" associated with our identities. I'm male but I'm not stereotypically masculine in every way; I'm bisexual but I'm not stereotypically bisexual in every way; I'm liberal but I'm not stereotypically liberal in every way. As cliched as it sounds, the best thing to do is "be yourself", to show that gay people are diverse, they are not all feminine (not there is anything wrong with being feminine), they do not all have the same political views. Maybe other gay people and those who make assumptions about gay people will expand their perspectives a bit. The best way to change your assumptions about someone is to get to know them.

Part of the problem is what we're exposed to. Many people are first exposed to homosexuals in the media, which do tend to be of the campy flamboyant type. They get the idea that this is what all gays are like and this is how gay men are supposed to act, that it's a key part of the identity. This is more so the case if a person grows up in a society where homosexuality is taboo and they are unlikely to have any gay friends or to be exposed to any discussion of it (again, this could apply to any aspect of our identity: if one grows up in an environment where men are stoic and bury their emotions they're going to think is how men are supposed to be). One of the best things to do in this situation is get to know other gay people (maybe through a website much like this one) and you'll find they're just people and come in a wide variety of personalities and behaviors and do not all conform to the most popular stereotypes.

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Old September 16th, 2020, 09:48 PM   #4
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Default Re: About gay culture

Like @HeyCameron said very well, it’s all about exposure and generalization. When all you’ve known as homosexuality is expressed in very flamboyant, campy, feminine ways, then it’s hard to differentiate your sexuality from your personality. Sexuality is not defined, it’s fluid, as is anything, especially personality traits. You can identify and act differently. No one is set to one thing, and everyone is free in their own choice of expression. And with that said, comes the same concept of pride. A lot of people see LGBT pride and expression as something that’s disgusting and over the top, but it’s really just about freedom of expression, and showing people the fact that it is in fact okay to express yourself differently or in stereotypical fashion of your identity. It doesn’t really matter, as long as you’re not hurting anyone else. I know as someone who identifies as a bisexual woman, I don’t always act in a stereotypical feminine or bisexual way (whatever that means), but that doesn’t mean I can’t identify as such.

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Old September 17th, 2020, 12:23 AM   #5
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Default Re: About gay culture

I have two uncles who got married and had, but did not come out to be openly gay until they were in their late 30s or early 40s because it was after they found a gay partner that felt was their "soulmate". One was even evangelical Christian for a long long time, and being gay is a big big no-no.
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Old September 17th, 2020, 02:33 PM   #6
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Default Re: About gay culture

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyCameron View Post
Does being gay mean you have to be part of the "gay scene"? "Gay" is a sexual orientation--that's it. It doesn't say anything about your personality, your appearance, your political views, your likes and dislikes, etc. The rest is all stereotype. I know Christians who are liberal who've been told they're "denying Christ" by not supporting Trump. But it's not up to others to decide how you express a facet of your identity. They can't tell you who you are and who you're supposed to be. You're always going to have people who think because of one aspect of your identity, you must behave and think a certain way. Very few of us buy "every single thing" associated with our identities. I'm male but I'm not stereotypically masculine in every way; I'm bisexual but I'm not stereotypically bisexual in every way; I'm liberal but I'm not stereotypically liberal in every way. As cliched as it sounds, the best thing to do is "be yourself", to show that gay people are diverse, they are not all feminine (not there is anything wrong with being feminine), they do not all have the same political views. Maybe other gay people and those who make assumptions about gay people will expand their perspectives a bit. The best way to change your assumptions about someone is to get to know them.

Part of the problem is what we're exposed to. Many people are first exposed to homosexuals in the media, which do tend to be of the campy flamboyant type. They get the idea that this is what all gays are like and this is how gay men are supposed to act, that it's a key part of the identity. This is more so the case if a person grows up in a society where homosexuality is taboo and they are unlikely to have any gay friends or to be exposed to any discussion of it (again, this could apply to any aspect of our identity: if one grows up in an environment where men are stoic and bury their emotions they're going to think is how men are supposed to be). One of the best things to do in this situation is get to know other gay people (maybe through a website much like this one) and you'll find they're just people and come in a wide variety of personalities and behaviors and do not all conform to the most popular stereotypes.

Cameron You are so right. I couldnt say it any better and
I know I could not express it as well as you did. Again Im in
awe of the way you tackle a subject and then give your view on
it. You seem to have it all-Personality-Intelligence and Good Looks.
Dude you are going to go far in your life and Im glad that I know
you here even if I never met you. The response to this thread
is Right On.
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Old September 18th, 2020, 12:11 AM   #7
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Default Re: About gay culture

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyCameron View Post
Does being gay mean you have to be part of the "gay scene"? "Gay" is a sexual orientation--that's it. It doesn't say anything about your personality, your appearance, your political views, your likes and dislikes, etc. The rest is all stereotype. I know Christians who are liberal who've been told they're "denying Christ" by not supporting Trump. But it's not up to others to decide how you express a facet of your identity. They can't tell you who you are and who you're supposed to be. You're always going to have people who think because of one aspect of your identity, you must behave and think a certain way. Very few of us buy "every single thing" associated with our identities. I'm male but I'm not stereotypically masculine in every way; I'm bisexual but I'm not stereotypically bisexual in every way; I'm liberal but I'm not stereotypically liberal in every way. As cliched as it sounds, the best thing to do is "be yourself", to show that gay people are diverse, they are not all feminine (not there is anything wrong with being feminine), they do not all have the same political views. Maybe other gay people and those who make assumptions about gay people will expand their perspectives a bit. The best way to change your assumptions about someone is to get to know them.

Part of the problem is what we're exposed to. Many people are first exposed to homosexuals in the media, which do tend to be of the campy flamboyant type. They get the idea that this is what all gays are like and this is how gay men are supposed to act, that it's a key part of the identity. This is more so the case if a person grows up in a society where homosexuality is taboo and they are unlikely to have any gay friends or to be exposed to any discussion of it (again, this could apply to any aspect of our identity: if one grows up in an environment where men are stoic and bury their emotions they're going to think is how men are supposed to be). One of the best things to do in this situation is get to know other gay people (maybe through a website much like this one) and you'll find they're just people and come in a wide variety of personalities and behaviors and do not all conform to the most popular stereotypes.
Well kinda you know where I am living men are stoic and bury emotions. Only way to express emotions is when being drunk or if its about football or Ice hockey. Where I live its also if man has not done their mandatory military time they are seen as lesser than a man.
One story my dad told me comes to my mind.
Back 1990s one youngish lad who lived in my village was gay or was seen as one. He was teenboy and everyone bullied this lad for being one. They beat him many times and priests wanted to heal him from his gayness. It ended up making this teenboy very sad and eventually moving out of country when about 18-20.
Nowadays its different but its still not easy task to come out. My friend came out to me and he was scared to do it. Instead of beating him I said to him that he is my friend no matter what.
This kinda surprised him cause I am it seems known to be bit bigot

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Old September 18th, 2020, 02:10 AM   #8
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Default Re: About gay culture

That is just a massive generalization of gays and gay pride. Because for example i am gay and am somewhat feminine but am not big into the stereotypical 'gay things' like being vegan and 'woke'. Official gay culture may seem real to people who aren't lgbtq+ but honestly most of us are just your average guys and gals who happen to like people of our gender.

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Old September 18th, 2020, 03:19 PM   #9
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Default Re: About gay culture

I understand what you mean. I'm gay, and while I do fit some gay stereotypes, I find that most of them just don't really apply to me. In my country, the average person's idea of a gay man is one who is extremely flamboyant, wears makeup, heels... and that's not me at all. I don't care for all that girly shit, although I do feel like I fit in better with girls than with guys (that's one stereotype that fits me), cause most topics guy seem to love talking about (cars, sports, video games..) mean nothing to me.. and girls won't judge me for not liking these things. Nobody ever really thinks I'm gay with the way I present myself, they just think I'm some quiet boy that doesn't care for love or relationships. That's not to say many gay guys don't fit in that box you talked about, but the rest just tend to be more lowkey and less obvious. You wouldn't really know until you asked or they told you cause you wouldn't associate their behavior with being gay.
I'm in many international group chats on WhatsApp, and some not-so-gay-friendly there have been shocked to learn that I'm gay, because gay to them carries many negative connotations/stereotypes that I just don't fit. It's kinda weird to see people saying there's no way I'm gay because I'm not flamboyant or super liberal/progressive... I mean, I am super liberal for Middle Eastern standards (not very high ones, you know), but for western standards I'm pretty standard. The Twitter/Tumblr types of people really piss me off lmao. and I don't like how western gays defend homophobic ideologies because they think it makes them look woke or whatever. Just hate that whole culture in general, it can stay away from me for all I care.

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Old September 19th, 2020, 01:02 AM   #10
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Default Re: About gay culture

It all starts with perceptions. When we think of how homosexual people are portrayed in both pop culture and on the internet, the things that come to mind might be Ru Paul's Drag Race, Queer Eye, Shane Dawson, etc.

Now, that's not because all gay people are like that, but because you can't pick out a homosexual very easily who doesn't potray stereotypes.

How do you represent someone who blends in so well?

I admit, I'd rather not come out as bisexual in any meaningful way because I'd rather not be associated with that. After all, I like to watch sports, go fishing, and I'm quite conservative, and it feels rather odd that people would expect me to be some sort of (and I'm going over the top with the stereotype here) feminine Marxist with pink hair who enjoys wearing croptops and yoga pants.

You cannot enter a room and pick out a homosexual and I'm not sure that there will be any progress until people begin to accept that.

But then again, that's just my take.

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Old September 19th, 2020, 02:07 AM   #11
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Default Re: About gay culture

You know few years back I would have been so bigot that I would have beated him for being gay but..... I think it was @Jinglebottom who did show me that one can be human and gay at same time. I had my attitude adjusted to a degree.

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Old September 19th, 2020, 06:25 AM   #12
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@Snowfox - congrats for this progress you made.





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Old September 19th, 2020, 12:58 PM   #13
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@Snowfox - congrats for this progress you made.
Didnt do it alone but... yeah

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Old September 19th, 2020, 01:30 PM   #14
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You know few years back I would have been so bigot that I would have beated him for being gay but..... I think it was @Jinglebottom who did show me that one can be human and gay at same time. I had my attitude adjusted to a degree.
Yup... I remember that conversation, that was many years ago. I'm glad that you started seeing things from a different perspective partly because of me. It gives me some hope that maybe my friends and (some) family members won't completely reject me if I ever tell them.

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Old September 21st, 2020, 04:49 AM   #15
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Default Re: About gay culture

Well, I personally dislike the stereotypical 'gay culture' and organizations because it is essentially based on sexual identity which you are born into, and in many cases, activists preach tolerance and peace, while lashing against religious organizations, both those who protest gays and those who don't. For example here at our last pride parade, the organizers openly mocked Jesus and Mary, Serbian traditional dress etc. While I am always for annoying religious fanatics who literally believe (I am not exaggerating) we should go back to the Middle Ages, I found those mockeries in very poor taste. Kinda retarded when you ask a pretty conservative society for tolerance, and then proceed to mock the very fabric of their identity. That's what I dislike. Now I hope we won't be having that BS this year due to the corona.

Plus I'd like to add that the gay people I met here in great majority dislike the whole pride thing because of what it became. Aside from mocking the Serb identity, which, coincidentally, many gays identify with, the organizations usually are not keen on accepting them in their ranks.

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Old September 22nd, 2020, 03:39 AM   #16
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I dont agree with mocking people for their beliefs like that or figures like Jesus, but its to be expected from the oppressed and persecuted
Yeah but it's the equal of calling someone names for being different and then wondering why he dislikes you. Not a lot of religious people would care if they just did their walk. Indians when fighting for independence did not mock the British, just ignored them. Plus a lot of the gay organizations push for same treatment in the Serbian society, while at the same time rejecting other members of said society. I am not just talking about literal homophobes because I can agree with rejecting them, but other perfectly normal people who don't give a shit.

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Old September 23rd, 2020, 10:31 PM   #17
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Default Re: About gay culture

I think there's a conflict among LGBT people wanting to integrate fully into mainstream culture and those who still want to preserve a distinct identity and "queer" culture (and perhaps this conflict exists within individuals as well). Much of that culture of course flourished when LGBT people had to remain underground because of society's lack of acceptance. I think this can apply to any identity, though--to what extent can you assimilate but still retain a unique identity?

I can't speak for Serbia, but here in the U.S. I have personally not observed any mocking of religion in pride parades, though they do certainly get sexually charged (I will note that the only people I know who've attended pride parades apart from me were straight people looking for an excuse to party in public). The part I liked best about the more low-key pride parade I went to in San Diego was seeing all the local organizations showing their support for the LGBT community.

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Old September 24th, 2020, 01:41 AM   #18
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Quote:
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I think there's a conflict among LGBT people wanting to integrate fully into mainstream culture and those who still want to preserve a distinct identity and "queer" culture (and perhaps this conflict exists within individuals as well). Much of that culture of course flourished when LGBT people had to remain underground because of society's lack of acceptance. I think this can apply to any identity, though--to what extent can you assimilate but still retain a unique identity?

I can't speak for Serbia, but here in the U.S. I have personally not observed any mocking of religion in pride parades, though they do certainly get sexually charged (I will note that the only people I know who've attended pride parades apart from me were straight people looking for an excuse to party in public). The part I liked best about the more low-key pride parade I went to in San Diego was seeing all the local organizations showing their support for the LGBT community.
All local oragnizations???? really So there was Republicans of San Diego and muslims of San Diego too?

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Old September 24th, 2020, 12:21 PM   #19
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I meant it was nice to see all the organizations that chose to participate. Police, fireman, and yes, even a few church groups.

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