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Old June 23rd, 2004, 01:06 AM   #81
teenboy9
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I do not know why you feel you need to insult me, and I find it to bad that you cannot try and see things in different ways, or at least allow the exploration to test your own faith. Many conservatives follow the bible without question, and I guess I can understand that. But you really do not understand liberal Christians if you believe your description. I believe what God says; humans are sinful, and corruptible. The bible is writing by the spirit of God, but the hand of man. More examination of the texts must be done, when inconsistencies between the bible and what science has proven occurs, passages must be looked at closer. I have to look and think, "Was the writer trying to say what I thought he was actually trying to say?" We can agree that many parts of the bible are not very direct in its language, with many sections created to be a single document and not a connecting section of a book. But please lets not get into this we are here for a different reason.
Once again I said nothing about being married in a church. Religion can have their own rules like country clubs do. No one is spitting anywhere. All I say is that homosexuals have the same civil rights as any other social, ethnic, religious, or racial group. Legally they have the right to civil unions, and to the same benefits as marriages, and heterosexual civil unions. Kerry and Bush are not very different politically.
And I know we have been at this for a while but we are not at the point to use politicians, as morality compasses are we? Washington had slaves, JFK sneaked away from his security and the man holding the nuclear launch codes to have sex with hookers endangering american lives. Nixon, almost all Presidents have had their own "sinful" acts. Clinton had oral sex with his intern. Is this where you look for your moral values?
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Old June 23rd, 2004, 04:37 AM   #82
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Interesting outlook on this issue.

Josh

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Old June 23rd, 2004, 06:33 PM   #83
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Default Selective Old Testament Reading

Dfsg,

Quote:
Jesus came as a living sacrifice for us, which banished all the old Jewish laws. Yes, Jews still try to follow the rules, but Christians don't need to.

I hate it when people use Deuteronomy and such against me. Jesus suffered so I wouldn't need to worry about the sacrifices of Jewish law.
Wrong:

Quote:
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 5:17-19, NIV
As we can see, according to Jesus himself the Law must be still obeyed. Which makes perfect sense if we remember that Jesus was a Jewish eschatological prophet and that Christianity started off as a Jewish sect.

Why do fundies always insist on selective reading of the Scripture?
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Old June 24th, 2004, 01:40 PM   #84
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Well, Jesus ended the Sacrifices for sins, at least. Mathew chapter 5 is an interesting chapter to debate indeed. Yet, it still keeps makes homosexual acts a sin, and it still makes no recognition of a man-man or woman-woman maraige.

As always- None of my statements are evaluated by the FDA.

My advice is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any diseases unless prescribed by a health practitioner. All information is provided for educational purposes only and should not replace the advice of your medical doctor.

(but your medical doctor will probably end up killing you )
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Old June 24th, 2004, 03:34 PM   #85
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Its a religious scandle. And its just plain wrong to not let gays enjoy the same rights as other people.

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Old June 24th, 2004, 03:55 PM   #86
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Gay Unions are not a religious matter, but the second the subject is brought up the ceremony suddenly is placed in the Church. But these last few comments prove my point on the religious side of this post. You can’t just take the bible and except it all without examination because of these inconsistencies. If you do not address these parts the bible, it does not make sense.
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Old June 24th, 2004, 05:09 PM   #87
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Its called the babble

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Old June 24th, 2004, 07:29 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teenboy9
Gay Unions are not a religious matter, but the second the subject is brought up the ceremony suddenly is placed in the Church. But these last few comments prove my point on the religious side of this post. You can’t just take the bible and except it all without examination because of these inconsistencies. If you do not address these parts the bible, it does not make sense.
There isn't one inconsistency with the Bible- there are just conflicting interpritations. But, I guess we'll see what the US government says about the issue. Isn't the vote on the ammendment coming up in a few days?

As always- None of my statements are evaluated by the FDA.

My advice is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any diseases unless prescribed by a health practitioner. All information is provided for educational purposes only and should not replace the advice of your medical doctor.

(but your medical doctor will probably end up killing you )
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Old June 24th, 2004, 08:35 PM   #89
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OK Dfsg you keep talking about seperation of church and state. Please with this issue do the same. Abortion laws have gone back and forth, and start to look like they are going back again. All this is about who can manipulate the system the best.
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Old June 24th, 2004, 08:49 PM   #90
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What bothers me is that aborted fetal tissue is used in some vaccine manufacture, and that is yet another argument.

As always- None of my statements are evaluated by the FDA.

My advice is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any diseases unless prescribed by a health practitioner. All information is provided for educational purposes only and should not replace the advice of your medical doctor.

(but your medical doctor will probably end up killing you )
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Old June 25th, 2004, 12:04 AM   #91
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lets leave that whole subject for a different post
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Old June 25th, 2004, 11:20 AM   #92
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Yup, that's one for the government to control, as it is a non religious practice. Maraige is a religious practice, well, it has been until the United States thought they could change it.

As always- None of my statements are evaluated by the FDA.

My advice is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any diseases unless prescribed by a health practitioner. All information is provided for educational purposes only and should not replace the advice of your medical doctor.

(but your medical doctor will probably end up killing you )
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Old June 25th, 2004, 11:25 AM   #93
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Please Dfsg I again say GAY UNIONS IS A MATTER FOR THE GOVERMENT. Yes if its in a church, then it is, but if your in front of a judge ITS NOT.
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Old June 25th, 2004, 01:29 PM   #94
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Dfsg

Quote:
Well, Jesus ended the Sacrifices for sins, at least.
Scripural reference, please? In Jesus' own words, of course. Because, as far as I am concerned, Jesus never said a single word about abolishing sacrifice. I would like you to provide some evidence for your claims.

Quote:
Mathew chapter 5 is an interesting chapter to debate indeed. Yet, it still keeps makes homosexual acts a sin, and it still makes no recognition of a man-man or woman-woman maraige.
Fine. However, if you insist on following the Scripture in the matters of same-sex marriage, I will in turn insist that you follow all of it, or drop it altogether. In other words, I will insist that you follow every rule, including the one about killing practicing homosexuals.

Remember: you don't get to be lukewarm about the Scripture. You either follow it, or you don't. There's no middle ground here. You said it yourself, remember (in your little rant about liberal Christians)? Practice what you preach, Christian.
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Old June 25th, 2004, 03:46 PM   #95
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Don't you realize that there is not a god, therefore, gay marrage is not a sin because there is no such thing as sin.

Josh

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Old June 26th, 2004, 02:55 PM   #96
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I have to say that gay marriages are one more thing that is causing America to destruct. I mean, I saw a show on MTV about gay couples getting married, and this one guy on there said, that if gay people have the right to get married, then what will stop people who like to have sex w/ animals from marrying their dog. I mean, we give people an inch, and they will take a mile. Pretty soon, people will be married to everyone and everything. We should really get America back to God and make marriage holy and biblical. Not only is gay marriages bad, but being gay itself is bad. The bible plainly states that it is wrong, and that homosexuals are condemned to hell.
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Old June 26th, 2004, 03:12 PM   #97
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Gays aren't bad. Who cares what the bible says. And thank god you aren't president.

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Old June 26th, 2004, 03:15 PM   #98
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my neighbors are around 30 years old and they are lesbians....they are cooler than some of my other strait neighbors...i dont find them any different at all
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Old June 26th, 2004, 05:15 PM   #99
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za20101, Marriage within a church is a complex debate, but marriage by a judge something outside of the church is not. Its an obvious civil rights violation to not allow americans to marry each other. (Civil Unions) za20101 tell me how gay marriages are causing the USA to destruct. Now I dont mean a response like "Gay marriages are wrong, and destroy society" What I am asking for is just very simply give me some facts, not conjecture. Now you cant give me a bible answer either. All I really want is some facts, not trying to shut down your opinion, I just want to know why you think that america will be destroyed if gays marry, what facts are you getting this from?
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Old June 27th, 2004, 10:26 AM   #100
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Josh- it's a debate forum, not a forum to state an opinion with no facts

And about sacrifices, in the words of Paul: "Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God- this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is- his good, pleasing, and perfect will."

This is a contrast to the old days of animal sacrifices, showing that they don't apply any more. The important thing is to sacrifice yourself, sacrifice every part of you that is not of God.

This one seals the deal: "Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for ther sins once for all when he offered himself. For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak, but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever."

This clearly puts Jesus's death above Jewish law.

In the words of Jesus's apostle John: "My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense- Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the attoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."

This extends Jesus's grace to anyone in the world who will take it.

There are more references, so don't tell me that the Bible doesn't say Jesus is above Jewish Law.

As always- None of my statements are evaluated by the FDA.

My advice is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any diseases unless prescribed by a health practitioner. All information is provided for educational purposes only and should not replace the advice of your medical doctor.

(but your medical doctor will probably end up killing you )
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