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Old June 15th, 2004, 11:08 AM   #61
TheWizard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dfsg
Wow- I was quoted

Anyhoo, There's not much more I can argue on this topic. I've put a lot into the last one. I do think that many of the heterosexual gay rights activists will change their mind as time goes on, and they get married.

There's even gays who don't want the right to marry. Those are mainly Christian gays. We do accept em all, just as any sinner, but we won't accept a sin as good. Some may lie, cheat, and steal, but it's still not good, even if many people in society think otherwise.

Some of us have the genetic tendancies and brain qwerks to end up gay, or to end up doing other things. There is a genetic disorder called "super-male" (where a man gets two Y's and an X- I don't know how it happens, but it happens). They are more likely to have high testosterone, and to steal, rape, and murder. A shockingly high percentage of them are in jail. This is their nature, this is how it is for them, but does it make it right to just go ahead and do it? There are rules.

In the same way, the Church has rules. The government controls civil unions, and the Church controls maraige. You can't just break with it. The church has, for thousands of years, not recognized gay maraige (even in a time when many roman's were gay). The bible has told us this, and God must have some reason for it. So, if you don't want to confess a sin of homosexuality and try to improve it, you are just telling God you don't want Him. If you don't want God, then you must not want maraige in His name.
Oh yes lets associate gays with murder, rape, stealing, etc. NOT

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Old June 15th, 2004, 07:29 PM   #62
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gay marriage is fine w/ me. if we say no to it the nwat will tha govt do? theyll turn totally racists towards blcks and all the other stuff thay want to be illegal an junk like that. its america......we are supposed 2 ne free and we arnt free at all if u think about it......but im going to go cuz this will get me started and that wont be good.
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Old June 16th, 2004, 08:30 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWizard

Oh yes lets associate gays with murder, rape, stealing, etc. NOT
I'm associating them with sinfulness.

And about the Bible passage posted before, yes, you have been successful in finding one of the 13 references to homosexuality. Too bad the Leviticus ones only have to do with Jewish law. Christian law comes much later. This passage is from Romans 1:26 + 27.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with woman and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves due penalty for their perversion.

Now, a homosexual preforming homosexual things is bad. Just as it would be bad if I lusted over or had premarital sex your sister. There's plenty of verses on that.

Yes, all sin is bad, and we all divulge in it every day, but churches can not let more sin happen with a marital joining that is not a man-woman(except the stupid episcopal church). Maraige is not recognized in the eyes of God if it is not a man-woman maraige. It is their job to fight all sin, for sin is from the Devil.

We had a pastor at a local church involved in Adultery. We didn't say "Oh, lots of people do it, he has a Doctorate in Psycology and Divinity, and he's such a nice guy, lets just let him stay." No! This man works for the Radio Shack now. You can't just let sin slide through the rules of religious docterine because it is popular.

When the Episcopal church put in a gay bishop (which is completely against the Biblical rules for that sort of thing), The Lutheran church, which was slowly merging with them, cut them off. They would not have pastoral exchanges, they would not let them bring sin into the congregation.

Now the government is trying to usurp the power of the church to declaire maraiges against the church's will. That is direct violation of the separation of church and state. And it's all illegal.

As always- None of my statements are evaluated by the FDA.

My advice is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any diseases unless prescribed by a health practitioner. All information is provided for educational purposes only and should not replace the advice of your medical doctor.

(but your medical doctor will probably end up killing you )
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Old June 16th, 2004, 06:28 PM   #64
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What ever Gay Marriage is wrong. Its immoral, unjusticefied, and against the belife of the bible. If god meant for Man to date, screw, kiss, the whole nine yards another Man then it wouldn't be in the bible NOT TO.

I personaly out side of belive think it is nasty and wrong any way. Why would anybody want that?!? Its unhuman. and I dont like the thought of it.

It brings the Status of the USA down. Personaly i think it disrespects the county as a whole. I also think that if less teens and younger adults worried More about school and work and less about being "gay" ...COUGH COUGH HOMOSEXUALS...... Then there would be more chances of bringing our country out of the whole its dug its self into. G.W.Bush Jr. has tried to express this before but liberals and none Repulicans/Conservatives requote hime to make our President sound like he wants Gay Marriage.

I fully support the Fedual Marriage Protection Admindment, and ir you wish to support it to email me at [email protected].

Yes, I sin so does everyone else in this world, but Homosexuality is THE MOST SINNFUL THING I HAVE HEARD OF NEXT TO HOMOSIDE AND SUICIDE.Its wrong and evil and doings of the devil.

--Sammi
 
Old June 16th, 2004, 06:31 PM   #65
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Want my opinon Veiw Gay Marriage, Response to Marriage Defenders in the debate section of virtualteen.org.
 
Old June 17th, 2004, 05:27 PM   #66
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for the people who say marriage is a sacred thing, it isn't. not anymore anyway. And who cares, gays are people too. They deserve the right to get married. who are we to say that god doesn't want them to be married. It's certainly not the government's choice.
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Old June 18th, 2004, 02:06 AM   #67
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You are right, Romans 1:26 + 27 is very clear, and it does not stand alone in its clarity. It’s also very clear when the bible tells me how to sell my daughter into slavery (if I had one). The bible says, “A woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear women's clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone who does this.” (Deut. 22:5) Sweetgurlsammi, I assume you have worn pants before in your life, does that mean God detests you? But before you start thinking about that we need to find out where almost all the teenagers on this site live, because as it says in Exodus 21:17 children that curse at their parents and in Exodus 21:15 children that hit their parents deserve to be put to death. This may be to personal Dfsg, but you need to find out when your mother has sex. Because if she has done this during menstruation the bible says she needs to be put to death (Exodus 19:13) If she has not then she should feel shameful for certain ways she may keep her hair or the amount of jewelry she has worn. (Tim. 2:9-10) This not to mention the continued theme through out the book of women being placed as the “lower sex.” Look, I respect your right to believe that the bible says homosexuality is wrong. But if you do, and say that the bible is first a detailed handbook on what a Christian should and should not be doing, then you have to follow all the other things the book mentions. But what is disturbing most of all is that we are having a debate on Gay Marriage, and Christianity is being considered. Civil Rights activists, and members of the gay community are working to try and receive the same rights as a heterosexual couple. Christianity does not matter here, they do not necessarily want to have a Christian marriage, they just want the right to be together with the one they love. A right that has no Constitutional reason for not being passed.
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Old June 18th, 2004, 02:08 AM   #68
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Very good

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Old June 18th, 2004, 09:24 AM   #69
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Ah ha- I see all you write in your rebuttal has a theme. Every single reference is from the Old Testament (save the Timothy reference).

Jesus came as a living sacrifice for us, which banished all the old Jewish laws. Yes, Jews still try to follow the rules, but Christians don't need to.

I hate it when people use Deuteronomy and such against me. Jesus suffered so I wouldn't need to worry about the sacrifices of Jewish law.

Now, I used a passage in Romans, one of the most Powerful New Testament books, to show that even after Jesus, Homosexuality was a sin. Sinning by having sex during a period, and all that gobledigook was stopped by Jesus's Death and Resurection, but sins of Homosexual acts were still sins.

Maybe you should read more into my theology before criticizing me on it.

As always- None of my statements are evaluated by the FDA.

My advice is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any diseases unless prescribed by a health practitioner. All information is provided for educational purposes only and should not replace the advice of your medical doctor.

(but your medical doctor will probably end up killing you )
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Old June 18th, 2004, 09:26 AM   #70
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Oh, and on the Timothy reference, Yes, that is new testament. Now, I don't wish to offend you, but which sex is generally stronger, and which sex generally is smarter? Can't argue with the facts.

As always- None of my statements are evaluated by the FDA.

My advice is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any diseases unless prescribed by a health practitioner. All information is provided for educational purposes only and should not replace the advice of your medical doctor.

(but your medical doctor will probably end up killing you )
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Old June 18th, 2004, 03:28 PM   #71
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So men are stronger? In what capacity? If you are talking about the ability to lift large amounts...big deal. Women have strength far beyond that is more meaningful than that. And as far as intelligence...you may be right to some degree, but it is only because men have been given more opportunities to be educated. Plenty of women in history are quite brilliant as well though. So I am not sure you are correct in saying that men are the stronger and smarter sex.

SHE ONCE BELIEVED..IN EVERY STORY HE HAD TO TELL...
ONE DAY SHE STIFFENED - TOOK THE OTHER SIDE..
EMPTY STARES - FROM EACH CORNER OF A SHARED PRISON CELL - ..
ONE JUST ESCAPES...ONE IS LEFT INSIDE THE WELL....
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Old June 18th, 2004, 08:29 PM   #72
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Yes I put a pair of pants on daily but thats what todays society does. Its also UNIFORM for my school and job to where a long gray t and a pair of denim or kaky slacks. I DONT OWN A SKIRT NOR DRESSS!

Anyways.

In Romans and Revalations and Acts <the three most stresed books of the new testiment at my church and in my city> it mentions something that Girls cant get around from doing that we cant help but do.

Men are the "higher gender" and women are the "lower gender". Its because up until WWII Women belived that they had to be house wives, then the Rosie's Girls came around.

Rosie the Rivitor and the Rosie's Girls History:

Prior to World War II, women were traditionally homemakers. But in 1942, thousands of American men were shipped to European and Pacific battlefields. A homefront crisis ensued - a severe shortage of labor to keep American businesses going, and to build the planes, ships and ammunition needed by troops.

In an effort to ease this problem, the United States War Production Coordinating Committee commissioned a poster of Rosie, the Riveter. Proclaiming, " We Can Do It ," the poster was designed to encourage women to leave their traditional roles in the home and enter the labor force. And they did - by the thousands - forever changing our views of what American women are "suppose" to do.

Rosie's Girls are the daughters and granddaughters of real-life Rosie's. Rosie wasn't their names. Rosie is what they were - women of the 1940s, young and old - all with a "Can Do" attitude, doing their part to help America in its time of need.

In todays world Men still have that small tendency to "over power" women.

BACK TO THE TOPIC:

In a marriage the Bible is read. The part of the Bible that is most likly going to be read in a normal weding is from the book of Romans!


So i dont think that Gay Marriage should be aloud to happen and i dont think that its right.
 
Old June 18th, 2004, 08:59 PM   #73
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Well, while Rosie the Rivoter's were important in gaining more freedoms for women, most women did not participate in industry. Less than 10% did in fact.

In todays world, men are still physically stronger (which is important). Yes, many great woman surpass the great majority of men. I'm not saying that a woman does not have the capacity to do something better, but generally, men do go further and are stronger than women. Look at forbes's list of the richest people on earth. I believe Martha Stewart was (stress on was ) the Richest female, maybe Oprah Winfrey, but that's a special case of a very special woman.


------------

Back to the topic.... Other than that, we see eye-to-eye on the Maraige issue.

I do hope this whole thing doesn't turn out to be a man-woman fight though

As always- None of my statements are evaluated by the FDA.

My advice is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any diseases unless prescribed by a health practitioner. All information is provided for educational purposes only and should not replace the advice of your medical doctor.

(but your medical doctor will probably end up killing you )
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Old June 19th, 2004, 06:51 PM   #74
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i think if ur gay and wanna marry someone of the same sex then thats ur bisness. no one should be able to tell you what to do its ur choice i don't think it's wrong or right it's the persons choice who they marry so why should everyone tell them what to do. thats how i see it.

Jess a.k.a Dork

DORK LOVES DORK 4 EVER AND ALWAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old June 20th, 2004, 01:30 AM   #75
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Dfsg you have brought up some really good points, good enough that you made me question myself, and further investigate this (which is the point of debate). Researching, I have found the difference between the religious conservatives and religious liberals. The more conservative view is that the bible was a direct inspiration from God (I guess that has to also include modern day publishing companies who produce copies of the book). Religious liberals see the bible as a bunch of letters and other writings written by people trying to spread the teachings of Jesus, while doing this as a human (a imperfect sinful being) and so bringing in some of their own biases from time to time. This could explain some of the minor inconsistencies that occur in the book. I am going to get into one other point that is extremely off track before I get back to the actual debate. Women physically are not built to be as strong as men, meaning a woman at their physical top is not going to be as strong as a man at his physical top. Most of us are not at our physical top, and if a woman really wanted to be their and do it, their most likely going to be stronger then the rest of the people in her life, woman or man. But in a society where our houses, cars and everything else is built for us by machine, where our food has been produced, harvest, or killed and rapped in plastic, strength really makes no difference in moving through daily life. Men also make up most of the rich elite, but you forget to consider the fact that the end to obvious sexism in society is still a recent victory, and if we look at the civil rights movement we can see change after victory is not immediate. Also that institutional sexism still exists, where it at some points is a subconscious sexism. Finally it has been medically proven that the literal make up of the brain is different between the sexes, so each side as their general strengths and weaknesses. For example studies have shown that women are better at concentrating on multiple things at the same time, while men are better at concentrating at one thing at a time.

But finally we get back to why we are hear, do homosexuals have the right to join together. People more and more see this as a religious fight, when it has nothing to do with religion. All that is being fought for is the right to join millions of other heterosexual couples in the United States coming together in civil unions. Under the guise of religious morals gays are being denied the right to the same benefits as heterosexuals. Yes, religion is a private club and can make their own rules, but when it comes to civil unions, not allowing homosexual couples the same benefits is a basic civil rights violation.
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Old June 20th, 2004, 07:43 AM   #76
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Well, I"m pegged as a conservative Christian. Most new Christians in with all the new Christian Rock music and all of that are conservative (I tend to go with both traditional and contemporary crowds very easily). I find that the people more serious about their faith, who devote themselves to God, are all the conservative Christians.

Liberal Christians, from my experience, are those who only go to church because they have to, or are't really so committed to the church. They interprit the Bible in ways to satisfy their own sins, even though confession is the only way to satisfy a sin. It is a damning sin to add or subtract from the Bible- every good Christian knows that.

But anyhow, back on topic, even if you look at this as a case of equal rights, there's something wrong. You want to supress the rights of the Church, and strengthen the rights of the Government to control the Church. That sounds like perfect equality- Government control of the church. Yeah- that's what the Communists and the Fascists like Hitler tried to do. The US now charges some Churches taxes, and they say where we can and cannot preach the word. Now they want to take away one of our most celebrated of ceremonies? They want to spit in our faces and say- "you've been doing this for thousands of years with success, and now we're gonna screw around with it!"

The politicians know this is horrible too. YOU WILL NOT FIND A MAJOR PARTY CANDIDATE IN FAVOR OF GAY MARRIAGE! Yes, both Bush and Kerry oppose it. Why would the two most important names in the United States right now, with opposing beliefs, have one mutual opinion? That is because they realize it is out-stepping the government's power to meddle with the church. They've read about Separation of Church and State, and they want to follow it.

As always- None of my statements are evaluated by the FDA.

My advice is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any diseases unless prescribed by a health practitioner. All information is provided for educational purposes only and should not replace the advice of your medical doctor.

(but your medical doctor will probably end up killing you )
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Old June 20th, 2004, 07:54 AM   #77
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Thats bull. What you want is the church to control government. The government hasn't said churches have to marry gays its simple not true.

All gays want is the rights other people have already.

Its about civil rights. All people should have the same civil rights.

Josh

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Old June 22nd, 2004, 10:56 AM   #78
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In the little town of Rock hill its not.
 
Old June 22nd, 2004, 03:24 PM   #79
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Not what?

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Old June 22nd, 2004, 08:09 PM   #80
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I'm confuzzled

As always- None of my statements are evaluated by the FDA.

My advice is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any diseases unless prescribed by a health practitioner. All information is provided for educational purposes only and should not replace the advice of your medical doctor.

(but your medical doctor will probably end up killing you )
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