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View Full Version : Georgia lawmaker proposes classifying miscarriages as ‘prenatal murder’


Jess
February 25th, 2011, 07:14 PM
This is unbelievable. Miscarriage, murder? Gosh, this guy is an IDIOT! *goes to throw up* I'm pretty sure even pro-lifers will think this is way over the line.

Only one positive thing. It brings together the left and right side, something that we both agree is stupid and ridiculous. Unless you're a woman hater and think women can't make decisions about their own bodies, no one agrees with this stupid freaking bill

Georgia lawmaker proposes classifying miscarriages as ‘prenatal murder’ (http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110225/ts_yblog_thelookout/georgia-lawmaker-proposes-classifying-miscarriages-as-prenatal-murder)

Earlier this year, a furor broke out in Congress over pending House legislation that critics contended would cut off federal funding for abortion in cases involving rape and incest. But that controversy may well pale beside a new proposal before the Georgia House.

Georgia State Rep. Bobby Franklin, a Republican from Marietta, Georgia, has introduced a bill that would criminalize miscarriages, making abortion and miscarriage -- or "prenatal murder" in the language of the bill -- potentially punishable by death.

Reports Mother Jones' Jen Phillips:

Under Rep. Franklin's bill, HB 1, women who miscarry could become felons if they cannot prove that there was "no human involvement whatsoever in the causation" of their miscarriage. There is no clarification of what "human involvement" means, and this is hugely problematic as medical doctors do not know exactly what causes miscarriages. Miscarriages are estimated to terminate up to a quarter of all pregnancies and the Mayo Clinic says that "the actual number is probably much higher because many miscarriages occur so early in pregnancy that a woman doesn't even know she's pregnant. Most miscarriages occur because the fetus isn't developing normally."

Phillips notes that last year Franklin -- a graduate of Covenant College who's served in the Georgia House since 1997 -- proposed a law that would reclassify victims of domestic violence as "accusers." His bio on the Georgia House website describes Franklin "an active member of the Reformed Presbyterian Church" but omits any mention of his marital status. And we were curious to learn whether the author of legislation that extends the state's reach very far into the private lives of women was himself married -- so we called his office to inquire, and staffer Leigh Goff told us she's "not sure" if he is.

Franklin's online bio also states that he "has been called 'the conscience of the Republican Caucus' because he believes that civil government should return to its biblically and constitutionally defined role." The present legislation would hold women legally responsible for the health and well-being of a fetus from "the moment of conception"-- weeks before modern pregnancy testing can accurately determine whether or not a woman is pregnant. So it seems to follow that Franklin believes government's "biblically and constitutionally defined role" is to hold women criminally liable for nature taking its course in the early days of a pregnancy.


Note: This is not a debate.

Perseus
February 25th, 2011, 07:44 PM
Goddamn. Goddamn. I would live right next to Marrieta, too. How I hate Georgia sometimes. Goddamn. What dumbass could honestly believe what he believes? You'd think politicians would have better things.

Amnesiac
February 25th, 2011, 07:45 PM
http://knowyourmeme.com/system/icons/2085/original/Kornheiser_Why.JPG?1267079689

UnknownError
February 25th, 2011, 07:53 PM
http://static.divbyzero.nl/facepalm/doublefacepalm.jpg

Seriously, WTF? This whole thing is just stupid.

Jess
February 25th, 2011, 08:01 PM
apparently he doesn't understand that women don't choose to have a miscarriage, unlike abortion.

Amnesiac
February 25th, 2011, 09:00 PM
This man presents an immediate threat to women's rights and the general aim of the justice system in general. He is not a representative of the people. He does not deserve to be a member of government if he is willing to infringe on the rights of millions of innocent people to push some ridiculous 'biblical' bullshit that's about as relevant to the problems the United States is facing as a steaming pile of horse shit is relevant to a third grade class's math lesson on multiplication.

Why am I mad? Because my family has an unfortunate history of miscarriages. It's not an issue I take lightly.

Sogeking
February 25th, 2011, 09:10 PM
It can't be helped if a women can't carry a baby at full term, this is ridiculous. This is so much fail I don't even think anything can describe it. :no:

Iron Man
February 25th, 2011, 09:49 PM
Hmm. I think that inbreeding has reached its farthest point as of now. (No offence)

Scooby Dooby Drew
February 25th, 2011, 10:08 PM
Oh lawl, stupid idea, but I can see his point, if a women smokes, drinks, does drugs, or something else self-inflicted that causes a miscarriage, I could see why one might think she deserves some sort of punishment.
But there are too many cases where miscarriages are of no fault, or at least very little fault, of the mother to warrant this. :/

suza23
February 25th, 2011, 10:35 PM
Oh lawl, stupid idea, but I can see his point, if a women smokes, drinks, does drugs, or something else self-inflicted that causes a miscarriage, I could see why one might think she deserves some sort of punishment.
But there are too many cases where miscarriages are of no fault, or at least very little fault, of the mother to warrant this. :/

Its still the mothers choice to smoke and drink. She shouldnt have to conform her life around something if she doesnt want to.

Yeah I think its dumb for a woman to smoke and drink while pregnant but really you cant make a law saying its murder / abuse of your child.

This basically just goes back to pro choice and pro life

Sith Lord 13
March 2nd, 2011, 05:30 PM
apparently he doesn't understand that women don't choose to have a miscarriage, unlike abortion.

Oh lawl, stupid idea, but I can see his point, if a women smokes, drinks, does drugs, or something else self-inflicted that causes a miscarriage, I could see why one might think she deserves some sort of punishment.
But there are too many cases where miscarriages are of no fault, or at least very little fault, of the mother to warrant this. :/

THIS IS WHY PEOPLE NEED TO READ THE ARTICLE

He said UNLESS "no human involvement whatsoever in the causation" of their miscarriage" meaning that natural miscarriages wouldn't be a crime. The crime would be if a woman drank or smoked her way to a miscarriage, etc.

I have to say I'm shocked at some of the people here hoodwinked by the title.

Kaya
March 2nd, 2011, 05:47 PM
I think this is stupid. I mean, I agree with both sides.
Yes, miscarrariages are out of a girl's control...BUT if a woman is smoking, drinking, etc then no, it isn't stupid.

scuba steve
March 2nd, 2011, 05:56 PM
He said UNLESS "no human involvement whatsoever in the causation" of their miscarriage" meaning that natural miscarriages wouldn't be a crime. The crime would be if a woman drank or smoked her way to a miscarriage, etc.


How could they monitor this, though?

Sith Lord 13
March 2nd, 2011, 06:59 PM
How could they monitor this, though?

I believe there are detectable signs when a fetus suffers from drug and alcohol poisoning.

Sugaree
March 2nd, 2011, 07:17 PM
I have to say I'm shocked at some of the people here hoodwinked by the title.

Finally, someone showing some common sense.

I'm not really surprised by this. If the woman intentionally smoke or drank to cause the miscarriage, shame on her then. But making it a crime that is also punishable by death? That's taking it to the extreme.

Sith Lord 13
March 2nd, 2011, 07:26 PM
Finally, someone showing some common sense.

I'm not really surprised by this. If the woman intentionally smoke or drank to cause the miscarriage, shame on her then. But making it a crime that is also punishable by death? That's taking it to the extreme.

Thank you. And I have to agree. The death penalty is a little far.25-life is where I'd max it out. Not even sure about that.

Perseus
March 2nd, 2011, 07:28 PM
Thank you. And I have to agree. The death penalty is a little far.25-life is where I'd max it out. Not even sure about that.

They're not murdering them, though. It's more manslaughter, really. And you can argue people addicted to these things can make them do it. It's not right, but it's hard for them to control themselves.

Sith Lord 13
March 2nd, 2011, 07:29 PM
They're not murdering them, though. It's more manslaughter, really. And you can argue people addicted to these things can make them do it. It's not right, but it's hard for them to control themselves.

Which is why I support detox and rehab clinics. That said, being addicted to alcohol can make you drive drunk. Doesn't make it not a crime.

Perseus
March 2nd, 2011, 07:32 PM
Which is why I support detox and rehab clinics. That said, being addicted to alcohol can make you drive drunk. Doesn't make it not a crime.

Yes, but they don't get 25-to life, like you're suggesting.

Sith Lord 13
March 2nd, 2011, 07:41 PM
Yes, but they don't get 25-to life, like you're suggesting.

Depends on the state. In Iowa it's minimum 25. And like I said, I wasn't sure.

Perseus
March 2nd, 2011, 07:47 PM
Depends on the state. In Iowa it's minimum 25. And like I said, I wasn't sure.

In Georgia, it's fifteen years. So, it would be stupid to make it more for a baby than an individual who has lived.

Sith Lord 13
March 2nd, 2011, 07:53 PM
In Georgia, it's fifteen years. So, it would be stupid to make it more for a baby than an individual who has lived.

I'll give you that.

Jess
March 2nd, 2011, 08:18 PM
THIS IS WHY PEOPLE NEED TO READ THE ARTICLE

He said UNLESS "no human involvement whatsoever in the causation" of their miscarriage" meaning that natural miscarriages wouldn't be a crime. The crime would be if a woman drank or smoked her way to a miscarriage, etc.

I have to say I'm shocked at some of the people here hoodwinked by the title.

I did read it. >_>

I just thought that if they cannot prove that there was "no human involvement whatsoever in the causation" of their miscarriage meant the opposite. >_> I misinterpreted it