Abortion..

[heykay]

I'm not quite sure if there's already a thread on this, and I don't feel like searching, so here it goes.

I personally think abortion should be legal and easily accesible for every woman. I think it's rather absurd that people are trying to make it illegal.

It seems to me, that women should be able to do what they want with their bodies.

So, if you get slipped roofies or something, and get raped and impregnated, you'll be forced to have that baby whether you like it or not.

Or if you're a teenager who doesn't know the dangers of sex and get pregnant, you'll be forced to have the baby and it will ruin the rest of your life.

Sure, there is adoption, but there's a lot of babies who don't end up getting adopted, and you have to tough it out throughout the whole pregnancy for nothing, which may cause you to want the baby, which will then further complicate your life.

It just doesn't seem fair to take rights away for women such as whether to have a baby or not.

If there MUST be a law on something about abortion, I'd say don't make it COMPLETELY illegal, but if there must be a law, make it not to be able to have an abortion past the first trimester.

What is everyone else's thoughts on this? Please be openminded and think about it.

Thank you.

[charlotte945]

I think abortion should be banned unless you've been raped and im pregnated. but i get what your saying. teens should know the risks befor having sex it's there responsibility to know the facts if there gana have sex. but again i totaly get what your saying, maby it would be better if there wasn't a law but more restrictons on who could have abortions

[heykay]

But how would it be determined about whether you were actually raped if it's been a few days/weeks after the rape?

I think abortion should be banned unless you've been raped and im pregnated. but i get what your saying. teens should know the risks befor having sex it's there responsibility to know the facts if there gana have sex. but again i totaly get what your saying, maby it would be better if there wasn't a law but more restrictons on who could have abortions

Thank you for understanding. If there wasn't a law, then restrictions could be fine if there had to be something.

[persiandude]

im pro choice!women should have the right to an abortion......its A VERY HARD CHOICE TO MAKE BUT IT SHOULD BE A CHOICE!every women should have the right to control wats coming in and out of her.........well u know

[Amnesiac]

http://images.askmen.com/galleries/men/bill-clinton/pictures/bill-clinton-picture-3.jpg

"Safe, legal and rare."

Making abortion illegal is just asking for a gruesome underground network of shoddy abortion clinics.

[Sugaree]

AvF1Q3UidWM

My thoughts on abortion all summed up in less than 10 minutes.

[Jess]

Abortion is a woman's right.

I don't want anyone to tell ME, if I want an abortion, to NOT get one because "it's murder". they have no right because it's my body, not theirs.

Abortion won't ever become illegal no matter what. Women will still have abortions because it's their choice

women that were raped especially - they should have the right to an abortion

[Iceman]

If someone wants an abortion there is a very good cause. If she can't get one she has to put up with that cause which will lead to very, very bad things.

[Fushigi]

its like ur saying that murdering/salvaging/massacre should be legal as well??? coz aborting a fetus is killing as well... why would they make it legal... its the woman's fault if she doesnt want a baby then use contraceptives so that no innocent fetus/child will die.

[heykay]

It's not like the fetus can feel the pain. It's not like saying ANYTHING like a murdering massacre should be legal. People like you twist things around and make something seem so much more worse than it actually is.

[Iceman]

its like ur saying that murdering/salvaging/massacre should be legal as well??? coz aborting a fetus is killing as well... why would they make it legal... its the woman's fault if she doesnt want a baby then use contraceptives so that no innocent fetus/child will die.

Those aren't 100 percent. Would you rather her have the kid, and let it grow up, joining a gang, shooting your kid. Then think damn, you could have just let her abort the kid.

[Jess]

its like ur saying that murdering/salvaging/massacre should be legal as well??? coz aborting a fetus is killing as well... why would they make it legal... its the woman's fault if she doesnt want a baby then use contraceptives so that no innocent fetus/child will die.

is it the woman's fault if she's raped? If I was raped, and I got pregnant, I would NOT want the child. I would get an abortion

The fetus isn't even human yet.

and besides, it's the woman's decision - HER body

[Fushigi]

is it the woman's fault if she's raped? If I was raped, and I got pregnant, I would NOT want the child. I would get an abortion

The fetus isn't even human yet.

and besides, it's the woman's decision - HER body

well basically thats exceptional.... well at least a fetus has a life even if its not yet out of the world... if u do abortion because u just flirt so early thats ur fault! and if u got raped well then maybe ill consider that ... but killing a person because of ur own sexual addiction well then u should go to jail because of doing that ... and thats why the government made it illegal... and in addition ppl is doing sex as their hobby god!!! think about it

[Jess]

Abortion isn't illegal in the US...

and a fetus is not even human yet. you shouldn't go to jail because you aborted. It's my choice and my body, not yours

[heykay]

Uhm, who said anything about a sex addiction? You don't have to be a sex addict to get pregnant..

[canyon]

I'm not quite sure if there's already a thread on this, and I don't feel like searching, so here it goes.

I personally think abortion should be legal and easily accesible for every woman. I think it's rather absurd that people are trying to make it illegal.

It seems to me, that women should be able to do what they want with their bodies.

So, if you get slipped roofies or something, and get raped and impregnated, you'll be forced to have that baby whether you like it or not.

Or if you're a teenager who doesn't know the dangers of sex and get pregnant, you'll be forced to have the baby and it will ruin the rest of your life.

Sure, there is adoption, but there's a lot of babies who don't end up getting adopted, and you have to tough it out throughout the whole pregnancy for nothing, which may cause you to want the baby, which will then further complicate your life.

It just doesn't seem fair to take rights away for women such as whether to have a baby or not.

If there MUST be a law on something about abortion, I'd say don't make it COMPLETELY illegal, but if there must be a law, make it not to be able to have an abortion past the first trimester.

What is everyone else's thoughts on this? Please be openminded and think about it.

Thank you.

I think that the woman should have the choice to get an abortion. It's her life, who are we to tell her how to live it? If she feels like a pregnancy isn't good for her, she should have the option to do something about it.
All of these people think that they have the right to tell others what is right and what's wrong. The truth is, people are going to do what they want no matter what others might say. If a girl wants an abortion because a pregnancy is bad for her, she should be able to get one without having to be afraid of what others will think of her.

[Fushigi]

well basically if u will use contraceptives u wont need to do abortion and no life will be aborted because of ur fault well i guess ppl should understand that having sex is not made for entertainment/leisure purposes LOL!! there is a saying in filipino "kung gusto mo maraming paraan kung ayaw mo madaming dahilan" it means if u want it there is always a way and if u dont want there is always an alibi .

[Fushigi]

Uhm, who said anything about a sex addiction? You don't have to be a sex addict to get pregnant..

hmmm i said... that some of the ppl are doing sex for their sexual desire we all know that ... do u?

[Iceman]

well basically if u will use contraceptives u wont need to do abortion and no life will be aborted because of ur fault well i guess ppl should understand that having sex is not made for entertainment/leisure purposes LOL!! there is a saying in filipino "kung gusto mo maraming paraan kung ayaw mo madaming dahilan" it means if u want it there is always a way and if u dont want there is always an alibi .


Contraceptives aren't 100 percent fucking change. Holy hell how many times do I have to say it?

[Fushigi]

Contraceptives aren't 100 percent fucking change. Holy hell how many times do I have to say it?


lol i havent seen ur post.... and if u dont want a baby then dont have sex thats it u wont need abortion .... and if ur ready do it!!! and if u wanna do it tell to ur partner to have a condom.... that is so simple...

[Syvelocin]

I don't get why people are so concerned with OTHER people's decisions. If you don't like abortion, don't have a fucking abortion. If women don't want their baby enough, they will kill it whether it's illegal or not. It's much safer however to have a legal operation done by an experienced doctor. We'll just end up going back to the coat hanger days.

There are women who have phobias of getting pregnant.

Birth control is not 100% effective. There is NO sure-fire way to not get pregnant (excluding removing reproductive organs) other than not having sex. And sex is a natural, normal, instinctive thing. You're not going to get people to stop having sex.

What if the woman does use birth control and that small chance of having a baby actually happens.

What if it's not healthy for her to give birth?

What if she doesn't want to bring a child into the world who will have a horrible life? (ex. a poor family, poor parenting, major birth defects in the child).

And it's a foetus. A foetus. We should make it illegal to kill ants as well.

[Iceman]

I don't get why people are so concerned with OTHER people's decisions. If you don't like abortion, don't have a fucking abortion. If women don't want their baby enough, they will kill it whether it's illegal or not. It's much safer however to have a legal operation done by an experienced doctor. We'll just end up going back to the coat hanger days.

There are women who have phobias of getting pregnant.

Birth control is not 100% effective. What if the woman does use birth control and that small chance of having a baby actually happens.

What if it's not healthy for her to give birth?

What if she doesn't want to bring a child into the world who will have a horrible life? (ex. a poor family, poor parenting, major birth defects in the child).

And it's a foetus. A foetus. We should make it illegal to kill ants as well.

Thank you!! It's natural for people to have sex, were humans. Then every now and then a person who doesn't want a baby has one. Now you can either make her keep it and force it into a life of deprivation, starvation, and suffering, let if join gangs, and commit violence acts, or you can just end it right then in there with no hard feelings. Pick the obvious choice.

[Fushigi]

god if u know that ur baby will have a horrible life why will u make her/him instead i was just saying that if u dont want to have a baby but u want to have sex use condoms/contraceptives... and what if ur the baby that get aborted? then ur not here thats unfair for them.. u know if u were raised here in my country... u will realized how wonderful life is while ur in the world :P

[Perseus]

god if u know that ur baby will have a horrible life why will u make her/him instead i was just saying that if u dont want to have a baby but u want to have sex use condoms/contraceptives... and what if ur the baby that get aborted? then ur not here thats unfair for them.. u know if u were raised here in my country... u will realized how wonderful life is while ur in the world :P

God, I swear your posts are so incoherent.

Abortion is the decision of the girl, not the decision of some stuck up republican all the way in Washington. I'm all for abortion. No reason to not have it.

[Iceman]

god if u know that ur baby will have a horrible life why will u make her/him instead i was just saying that if u dont want to have a baby but u want to have sex use condoms/contraceptives... and what if ur the baby that get aborted? then ur not here thats unfair for them.. u know if u were raised here in my country... u will realized how wonderful life is while ur in the world :P

Not everyone who gets an abortion wanted to have a baby. They could have been forced, drunk, there are multiple ways. They could use condoms you don't fucking know. 99 percent of them do but there not 100 percent. And so you have this problem that you are complaining about. How is it unfair they don't even have a brain yet.

Please don't preach me on how wonderful life is. Damn.

[Syvelocin]

god if u know that ur baby will have a horrible life why will u make her/him instead i was just saying that if u dont want to have a baby but u want to have sex use condoms/contraceptives... and what if ur the baby that get aborted? then ur not here thats unfair for them.. u know if u were raised here in my country... u will realized how wonderful life is while ur in the world :P

Man. Are you listening?
Condoms are less effective than the pill. And guess what? I was conceived even though my mum was on birth control. I can argue that I'm glad to not have been aborted, but think about it. My mum was young. She was poor. I didn't live with her until I got older, I was living with my aunt who abused me.

There are whole fuckload of reasons that abortion is better.

And it's no question of where you were raised. There's no discrepancy between our perspectives on the quality of life. The difference: you were raised believing this.

And it helps that I'm a girl.

[Fushigi]

ok.. all the people are entitled to their own opinion.. i guess because we have different perspectives here is because we are raised in different aspects and culture u are raised that way ,i am raised this way... ill respect ur opinion and pls respect my opinion... im just saying my opinion on the way i think it used to be .

[Amnesiac]

The point is: if you make abortion illegal, bad things will happen. 16-year-olds everywhere will leave their newborn babies in dumpsters and toilets, and underground networks of dangerous, unsanitary abortion centers will open up across the country. Abortion is necessary for thousands of mothers because they are simply unable to raise a baby in a safe environment. Abortion is also necessary for rape victims and those who miscarriage.

Abortion needs to be legal to protect babies from being abandoned and murdered, as well as to assist those who are unable to complete a pregnancy.

[heykay]

If you're the baby that got aborted, then you won't be here. Simple as that.

[Amnesiac]

For all of you pro-lifers: frankly, the world doesn't need more people. What about babies who end up abandoned? Would you rather them live a short life full of pain and suffering because a bunch of social conservatives denied a pregnant woman the right to a safe and legal abortion center?

[Syvelocin]

^ She's pro-choice.

[Iceman]

I was thinking that. She just worded it very odd.

[Amnesiac]

^ She's pro-choice.

Goddammit, this thread is so confusing.

[heykay]

So? Frankly, the world doesn't need more people. What about babies who end up abandoned? Would you rather them live a short life full of pain and suffering because a bunch of social conservatives denied a pregnant woman the right to a safe and legal abortion center?

Meaning I'm for abortion. It doesn't matter if it's illegal, women will get it done no matter what, and it could be extremely harmful. They could get it done in dirty homes with nasty tools and end up dying along with the baby, causing twice as many deaths. It's not worth it making it illegal.

[Iceman]

I believe there was a show once where this woman kept doing abortions herself at home and ended up dying.

[Amnesiac]

Meaning I'm for abortion. It doesn't matter if it's illegal, women will get it done no matter what, and it could be extremely harmful. They could get it done in dirty homes with nasty tools and end up dying along with the baby, causing twice as many deaths. It's not worth it making it illegal.

Sorry bout that, I changed my original post. :rolleyes:

[heykay]

What pisses me off more, is that churches are saying shit like "good christians won't let abortions happen", and "abortion is murder", and all these people are following it because that's what their church says, when they have no real idea of what it even is..

[restricted NA]

It should be legal because not only for rape victims, but also teens who can't afford a child. Sure adoption is a option but there is so many reports of abuse and then children want to see the parents , sometimes the parents don't want to see the kids it just get bitter. I say if a person is not mentally disabled they can make their own decision.

[Korashk]

People do not have the right to live at the unwilling expense of another. I am perfectly comfortable with saying that you are also not legally obligated to let anyone use, say, your spleen, or your kidney, or your left arm, or your rectum against your will. Your body is yours, and you are under no legal obligation to share it with anyone else, born or not.

[BOBBY HILL]

Then girls would just have unprotected sex, and if they were to get pregnant they could just get an abortion.

Only way I'll allow this is for the parents having to agree with the child's abortion, therefor knowing she got pregnant.

[Jess]

I don't think parents should prevent their daughter from having an abortion if she wanted one. They should RESPECT her choice

[Bluesman]

Abortion. Should. Be. Illegal.

It's taking the life of an innocent child. Just as bad as murder. Putting all of my religious views aside, abortion is murder, and, in my opinion, should be treated as such.

[Amnesiac]

Abortion. Should. Be. Illegal.

It's taking the life of an innocent child. Just as bad as murder. Putting all of my religious views aside, abortion is murder, and, in my opinion, should be treated as such.

The point is: if you make abortion illegal, bad things will happen. 16-year-olds everywhere will leave their newborn babies in dumpsters and toilets, and underground networks of dangerous, unsanitary abortion centers will open up across the country. Abortion is necessary for thousands of mothers because they are simply unable to raise a baby in a safe environment. Abortion is also necessary for rape victims and those who miscarriage.

Abortion needs to be legal to protect babies from being abandoned and murdered, as well as to assist those who are unable to complete a pregnancy.

It're more complex that "abortion is MURDER!!!1!"

[Iceman]

Abortion. Should. Be. Illegal.

It's taking the life of an innocent child. Just as bad as murder. Putting all of my religious views aside, abortion is murder, and, in my opinion, should be treated as such.

What. A child. A child with no brain. A child with no fingers. A child with no thoughts. That child?

[Bluesman]

What. A child. A child with no brain. A child with no fingers. A child with no thoughts. That child?

But still a child. An innocent child which had no chance to live it's life. Possibly change the world. Possibly make it a better place for all of us.

[Daniel_]

Well, look at it this way.

Right now with abortion being legal, would-be parents are having their child... Erm, 'disposed' of in a safe an humane way. However, if made illegal, then chances are people will revert to the old push-her-down-a-flight-of-stairs trick, or maybe the fishing-with-a-wired-coat-hanger method, putting the person at risk.

Either way, it's going to happen, so you might as well let it be safer for the individual having it done.

And I'm for abortion btw, by my own standard.

[Iceman]

But still a child. An innocent child which had no chance to live it's life. Possibly change the world. Possibly make it a better place for all of us.

That happens every month. A child is one with a hearbeat.

[Amnesiac]

But still a child. An innocent child which had no chance to live it's life. Possibly change the world. Possibly make it a better place for all of us.

Oh, enough with that "possibly" argument. I mean, really, it's so weak. Here's something you won't like hearing: if we continue giving people welfare, one of them could POSSIBLY get a stable job and go on to do something great! That's why we should continue the welfare state!

[Bluesman]

That happens every month. A child is one with a hearbeat.

A child is what happens as soon as a sperm and egg join.

[Fushigi]

What. A child. A child with no brain. A child with no fingers. A child with no thoughts. That child?



well it depends on the numbers of the month of the pregnancy because the development of the baby is stage by stage ... and most likely if u will be having an abortion at ur 8th month of pregnancy probably it has fingers and other parts as well... even if its at its 1st week the fetus has a life

[Amnesiac]

A child is what happens as soon as a sperm and egg join.

Child: a person between birth and full growth; a boy or girl: books for children.

So, no, not really.

[Iceman]

A child is someone with a heartbeat. When a sperm meets egg, there is no fucking heartbeat. Which means no thoughts, because there is no brain. How the hell is that a child. Sir.

[Bluesman]

Oh, enough with that "possibly" argument. I mean, really, it's so weak. Here's something you won't like hearing: if we continue giving people welfare, one of them could POSSIBLY get a stable job and go on to do something great! That's why we should continue the welfare state!

Possibly is a perfectly valid argument. And in cases where the doctor says the baby may have birth defects or may have some sort of disease, the doctors never know. Take Tim Tebow. The doctors advised his mother to have an abortion but she refused. He's now a starting quarterback in the NFL... I'd call that successful.

[Bluesman]

A child is someone with a heartbeat. When a sperm meets egg, there is no fucking heartbeat. Which means no thoughts, because there is no brain. How the hell is that a child. Sir.

A child has been concieved. In my opinion, a "Child" is anything after conception. And means of aborting a pregnancy after contraception is taking a life.

[Iceman]

That's because SHE had an infection that could harm her life. That is a stupid arguement.
And use the fucking edit button, damn.
What you are saying is killing something with no heartbeat is wrong. A egg has no hearbeat and if you don't concieve it, it goes away, so you are against human nature.

[Amnesiac]

Possibly is a perfectly valid argument. And in cases where the doctor says the baby may have birth defects or may have some sort of disease, the doctors never know. Take Tim Tebow. The doctors advised his mother to have an abortion but she refused. He's now a starting quarterback in the NFL... I'd call that successful.

But what are the chances of an unborn fetus going on to "do something great"? Should we really abolish safe, legal and rare abortion policies so this incredibly slim possibility can be achieved? That doesn't make any sense. If we ban abortion, as I stated before, horrible things will happen. That's always the case when social conservatives come in and say "let's ban this! then the world will be better and MORE MORAL! I LOVE MORALS!" You make something illegal, be it marijuana or abortion, and suddenly a tidal wave of negative side effects come about.

[Bluesman]

That's because SHE had an infection that could harm her life. That is a stupid arguement.
And use the fucking edit button, damn.

So you're saying you can rationalize killing a child, or fetus if that's what you prefer to cause it? IF the mother truly loves her child, she would be willing to risk her life for it.

[Fushigi]

lol ... dont argue with this ... i guess we have our own thinkings that should be respected :D

[Iceman]

So you're saying you can rationalize killing a child, or fetus if that's what you prefer to cause it? IF the mother truly loves her child, she would be willing to risk her life for it.

If she would have died the baby would have died anyways because she's the nourishment.

lol ... dont argue with this ... i guess we have our own thinkings that should be respected :D

If he want's to argue let him. Sooner or later he will give up. For now it gives me something to do :P

[Amnesiac]

So you're saying you can rationalize killing a child, or fetus if that's what you prefer to cause it? IF the mother truly loves her child, she would be willing to risk her life for it.

As stated above, if the mother dies the baby would probably die as well.

Also, the world isn't molded to your viewpoint. If we made abortion illegal, as I'm saying for the billionth time, people would go to drastic measures to "get rid" of their babies. You can't just ban something and say "well, that's it, now the world is perfect and moral! I love forcing my moral platform on people no matter what the negative effects are! I'm just a great social conservative!" We'd just see a dramatic increase in the number of abandoned and 'dumped' newborns as well as illegal underground abortion clinics. The best idea would be to work towards a society where abortion is safe, legal and rare, which was Bill Clinton's idea all along.

[Fushigi]

As stated above, if the mother dies the baby would probably die as well.

Also, the world isn't molded to your viewpoint. If we made abortion illegal, as I'm saying for the billionth time, people would go to drastic measures to "get rid" of their babies. You can't just ban something and say "well, that's it, now the world is perfect and moral! I love forcing my moral platform on people no matter what the negative effects are! I'm just a great social conservative!" We'd just see a dramatic increase in the number of abandoned and 'dumped' newborns as well as illegal underground abortion clinics. The best idea would be to work towards a society where abortion is safe, legal and rare, which was Bill Clinton's idea all along.


well even if its illegal there are still ppl that will do this ...

[Amnesiac]

well even if its illegal there are still ppl that will do this ...

You're missing my point. We need to move towards a society where a safe, legal abortion is an option for women who need it. Only by doing that can we end abortion as a necessity in the modern world. We can't just ban it and call it a day, that would make it worse.

[insanity]

of course abortion should be legal, i hate it when people go on about it being cruel and if you dont want a baby just dont have sex.
Its sad to be against abortion unless you are the girl in that situation thats gonna have to live with it for the rest of your life, then you need to be able to make that situation.
Its not cruel to the kid, its the most humane option.

[Fushigi]

You're missing my point. We need to move towards a society where a safe, legal abortion is an option for women who need it. Only by doing that can we end abortion as a necessity in the modern world. We can't just ban it and call it a day, that would make it worse.


i guess they should allow a woman to get abortion if she has a valid reason that she can file a petition to have it...

[Amnesiac]

i guess they should allow a woman to get abortion if she has a valid reason that she can file a petition to have it...

That'd just create another backlogged, underfunded government agency. Besides, who would decide what a "valid reason" is? What if a bunch of pro-lifers were appointed to the board and didn't approve any abortions?

[Sebastian Michaelis]

Idk y they wanna illegalize it when they can be making a shit load of tax money if they made it legal

[Fushigi]

ok now my head is aching because of this!!! thats why i didnt take LAW hahaha

[Amnesiac]

Idk y they wanna illegalize it when they can be making a shit load of tax money if they made it legal

Taxing abortion would make it inaccessible to poorer people, who are probably the ones who need it the most.

[Iceman]

ok now my head is aching because of this!!! thats why i didnt take LAW hahaha

This? Pfft.

This is nothing.

[Fushigi]

This? Pfft.

This is nothing.


LOL u didnt understand what i said?.... hmm law students are taking test like this hmm for example... for their bar exam they will encounter such questions like this which i dont like to encounter :P

[Syvelocin]

A child has been concieved. In my opinion, a "Child" is anything after conception. And means of aborting a pregnancy after contraception is taking a life.

I'm sorry, but your opinion means nothing against a fact.

The definition of a child says that a foetus is not a child.

This below, is an embryo. It's not even a foetus.

http://embryology.med.unsw.edu.au/wwwhuman/Stages/Images/Cst800.jpg

It looks like a mole rat until stage 19. Then it looks more like a minature whale. And finally, a martian. In these stages, it isn't even a foetus yet. A foetus has all major organs, and this happens after the first two months or so.

An embryo does not have all their major organs. This means, they may not even have their heart, brain, lungs, etc. Tell me that's a child.

I know it isn't the case with everyone, as I know a good amount of women who are the same way. But may I bring up that every pro-life arguing here is male?

[Korashk]

People do not have the right to live at the unwilling expense of another. I am perfectly comfortable with saying that you are also not legally obligated to let anyone use, say, your spleen, or your kidney, or your left arm, or your rectum against your will. Your body is yours, and you are under no legal obligation to share it with anyone else, born or not.
Bump, seriously.

All you who claim that abortion is murder, consider this. If I can save a person by giving them my kidney, but I don't, am I a murderer? If I have the opportunity to pay for someone else's vital operation, but I don't, am I a murderer? If I could save someone's life with a blood transfusion, but I don't, am I a murderer?

It doesn't matter whether or not a human fetus is a person or not. Abortion is the process of removing the fetus from the mother. The fetus then dies because it no longer has a life-support system. They typically are not killed (a positive action), they die after removal.

People do not have the right to live at the unwilling expense of another.

[Iceman]

LOL u didnt understand what i said?.... hmm law students are taking test like this hmm for example... for their bar exam they will encounter such questions like this which i dont like to encounter :P

No, I ment this was easy, and I do it on a everyday basis.

[insanity]

wouldnt you prefer to be killed as nothing and then come back. or be born into a family where you arent wanted. people get abortions cause they dont want the baby. So being killed as nothing would be better then being mistreated and unwanted.

[Fushigi]

No, I ment this was easy, and I do it on a everyday basis.


well basically this issue in our society is common ... fetus are thrown everywhere!! even in a toilet bowl at a public c.r its just very disturbing to witness such a poignant scenes like that!! (coz me myself have seen a fetus in person! it was thrown in a pavement...) so that brought me into a mind that abortion should not be legal)

[Korashk]

There's also the point that if abortions were illegal, depending on the reasons, you'd have to charge women who miscarry with manslaughter, and women who get abortions with murder.

[Iceman]

well basically this issue in our society is common ... fetus are thrown everywhere!! even in a toilet bowl at a public c.r its just very disturbing to witness such a poignant scenes like that!! (coz me myself have seen a fetus in person! it was thrown in a pavement...) so that brought me into a mind that abortion should not be legal)

That should have brought you into the mind that if it was legal THAT wouldn't happen. People would do it sterile and cleanly. If it was illegal you would see that alot more often.

[Fushigi]

That should have brought you into the mind that if it was legal THAT wouldn't happen. People would do it sterile and cleanly. If it was illegal you would see that alot more often.


hmmm i guess so... :s

[insanity]

blerch I knew a girl who got pregnant at 15 and her mum didnt think abortans were okay so they daughter put down towels on the bathroom floor and belly floped onto her tummy to get the thing out and have a miscarrige.

[Fushigi]

blerch I knew a girl who got pregnant at 15 and her mum didnt think abortans were okay so they daughter put down towels on the bathroom floor and belly floped onto her tummy to get the thing out and have a miscarrige.


god!! i cant imagine them doing that!

[insanity]

yeah it must of hurt... its was quite a way through as well >.<

[Korashk]

god!! i cant imagine them doing that!
Well, that and occurrences like it were not all that uncommon it the era of outlawed abortions.

[heykay]

Then girls would just have unprotected sex, and if they were to get pregnant they could just get an abortion.

Only way I'll allow this is for the parents having to agree with the child's abortion, therefor knowing she got pregnant.


no.no.no.no.no. Girls would NOT have unprotected sex. Who here wants to get an abortion every other week??

[Perseus]

But still a child. An innocent child which had no chance to live it's life. Possibly change the world. Possibly make it a better place for all of us.

Oh, oh! I can play that game too! Possibly the baby will be the next Hitler and start a nuclear holocaust. Possibly for the worst of us.

[gingeylover14]

this is my secound time pregnate (i misscareged the 1st time) and im still 100% prolife you may say my body my choice but its not your body its another body inside of u... the only ppl able to get abortions should be rape victums

[ackmedsgirl666]

in my personal opinion i think that a baby should be aborted only if it is a victim of rape. if for any other reason a baby is aborted i get quite upset cuz your killing an innocent life and that child did nothing to deserve to die

[Korashk]

I do not understand the rationale that abortions are only okay in the case of rape/incest.

The people who hold this position typically also hold that a fetus is a full person. Why should it matter if the woman got raped?

[Jess]

in my personal opinion i think that a baby should be aborted only if it is a victim of rape. if for any other reason a baby is aborted i get quite upset cuz your killing an innocent life and that child did nothing to deserve to die

yes but you don't really have the right to make decisions for others. if say, your friend was pregnant and wanted an abortion (she wasn't raped), it's her choice and although you can try to persuade her to give up the baby for adoption, you should still respect her choice in the end

[Nevermore]

Adoption is better than abortion. However i think the choice should be given to rape victims. However I think people should be educated about what they are killing, it's a human life. It's there body, yes, they carry the parasite, but they still can be educated, and thus affect perhaps their decision in the end. Either way, like Jessica said respect the person in the end. No matter which one of the three decision the person choices it's hard, and it will affect them for the rest of their lives, support them, even if you don't agree with it.

[Syvelocin]

There are women who have phobias of getting pregnant.

Birth control is not 100% effective. There is NO sure-fire way to not get pregnant (excluding removing reproductive organs) other than not having sex. And sex is a natural, normal, instinctive thing. You're not going to get people to stop having sex.

What if the woman does use birth control and that small chance of having a baby actually happens.

What if it's not healthy for her to give birth?

Just saying. There are a number of reasons abortion is the best option for the safety of both the mother and the child.

A pregnancy phobia is more extreme than you'd think. I mean, if they couldn't have an abortion, they would go to extreme measures to get rid of it. I don't know. If I was an unborn foetus, I think I'd rather be humanely disposed of than squished to death by a mother who hates me that much.

[steve1234]

[double post, sorry]

[steve1234]

I have fairly strong views about abortion. I think it is totally wrong, unless the girl became pregnant through rape, if the baby is severly disabled, or if having a baby would damage the mother's health (and other circumstances similar to those).

In all other circumstances it is totally unacceptable. A girl should know the implications of having sex, which could result in her becoming pregnant, even if she does use some contraceptives such as condoms which are not 100% effective.

If she really doesn't want the baby, she should give it up for adoption.

[Charleigh]

People would then lie that they have been raped.
Im against abortion, I think its murder.
But hey each to their own.

[Love.Hate]

I think that people have the right to choose.
I would only ever get one under certain circumstaces (like i had been raped).
But i kind of feel like its killing your own child in a way..
So Yeah im 50:50 on this topic.

[embers]

I do not understand the rationale that abortions are only okay in the case of rape/incest.

The people who hold this position typically also hold that a fetus is a full person. Why should it matter if the woman got raped?

This. I cannot STAND it when people say that a foetus is an unborn life and killing it is wrong etc, but then hold that rape victims can kill it because they didn't want to have it. If you're going to say you have moral values then bloody well stick to them.



I don't see what is wrong with abortion. The foetus cannot feel, it has no conscience (as far as we know), no emotions, no instinct even yet. I don't regard that as a living human, and so if you people don't mind killing animals and eating them, or squashing an insect, or eating eggs, or anything as such, you shouldn't mind having an early abortion.

[Syvelocin]

The baby doesn't even have their major organs until the first two months. They cannot think and feel at that point. The only thing I think should be regulated is when during your pregnancy you can get an abortion, but I think it's completely wrong for it only to be rape victims. None of them want the baby, a rape victim doesn't want the baby, just some woman who accidently got pregnant doesn't want the baby. It doesn't make sense, as Sachal said.

I also don't understand what is murder about an abortion. They don't directly kill it anyway :/

[Jenna.]

I'm pro choice, I think its up to the woman whether or not she wants to have an abortion and I don't think that decision should be made for her. I know for a fact if I got pregnant right now, (which probably wouldn't happen since I use protection but still might), I would have an abortion. Why? Because I realize I'm not old enough to be able to care for a child and even if I was, I don't want one. In addition, its kind of pointless to me to go through a whole pregnancy and then just give up your child at the end. Yes, the child would be alive, but not all babies get adopted right away and the ones that don't have to sit, basically unloved in a sense, until they turn 18. That's not much of a life.
I think it would be ridiculous and pointless if abortion were to be made illegal, because women would have them done anyway. Its better to keep them legal and safe than to make it so that women have to have a "back alley" type of procedure done.
For the record, yes I'm one of those people who has a pregnancy phobia. I personally find it to be very gross and scary and that's one of the reasons why I never want children. (I saw some comments on that earlier and decided I'd add in that I actually have it.)

[Jess]

I have fairly strong views about abortion. I think it is totally wrong, unless the girl became pregnant through rape, if the baby is severly disabled, or if having a baby would damage the mother's health (and other circumstances similar to those).

In all other circumstances it is totally unacceptable. A girl should know the implications of having sex, which could result in her becoming pregnant, even if she does use some contraceptives such as condoms which are not 100% effective.

If she really doesn't want the baby, she should give it up for adoption.


but no one should tell her what to do. If she wants an abortion, she should be allowed one. She shouldn't be forced to give it up for adoption if she doesn't want to. SHE makes the decision, no one else.

I would get an abortion if I was pregnant too, I never want children

[Mrs.KermitTheFrogx]

i think abortion is legal in my country (england)
But i dont see anythin wrong with it to be honest
if you notice there is alot of boys saying there against it
and to be honest i dont think they have a say init
if they knock up a girl they dont have to live with the consequences of it
if you get raped its not your fault about constreseption is it ?!
And even if you do there is NO WAY to get 100% fullproof
i reasearched this and the only way to not get STDs or pregnecy is to not have sex
so are you saying that all women are not aloud to have sex becuase they dont children ...
And lmao at iDan02
ARE YOU SAYING YOUR NEVER GOING TO HAVE SEX EXCEPT FOR TO HAVE CHILDREN !!
dont think sooooooooooo tbh :|

[Mrs.KermitTheFrogx]

Adoption
unless you have a perfectly cute little baby the chances of getting adopted are very low
and what type of life is it growing up knowing your parents never wanted you ?!

[ackmedsgirl666]

I do not understand the rationale that abortions are only okay in the case of rape/incest.

The people who hold this position typically also hold that a fetus is a full person. Why should it matter if the woman got raped?

because then if they were raped and know the rapist i'm pretty sure that they would not wanna have to go through giving birth to a child who is a victim of rape

[Mrs.KermitTheFrogx]

I'm pro choice, I think its up to the woman whether or not she wants to have an abortion and I don't think that decision should be made for her. I know for a fact if I got pregnant right now, (which probably wouldn't happen since I use protection but still might), I would have an abortion. Why? Because I realize I'm not old enough to be able to care for a child and even if I was, I don't want one. In addition, its kind of pointless to me to go through a whole pregnancy and then just give up your child at the end. Yes, the child would be alive, but not all babies get adopted right away and the ones that don't have to sit, basically unloved in a sense, until they turn 18. That's not much of a life.
I think it would be ridiculous and pointless if abortion were to be made illegal, because women would have them done anyway. Its better to keep them legal and safe than to make it so that women have to have a "back alley" type of procedure done.
For the record, yes I'm one of those people who has a pregnancy phobia. I personally find it to be very gross and scary and that's one of the reasons why I never want children. (I saw some comments on that earlier and decided I'd add in that I actually have it.)

I actually agree with EVERYTHING your saying
and i think i may have a pregnecy phobia
ive always said im never having children im going to adopt when im older :) x

[Perseus]

because then if they were raped and know the rapist i'm pretty sure that they would not wanna have to go through giving birth to a child who is a victim of rape

"But it's killing, an innocent baby who doesn't have a say in it."
cuz your killing an innocent life and that child did nothing to deserve to die

What's the difference? It's still an unborn baby either way you look at it. You're contradicting your beliefs.

[The Dark Lord]

I have fairly strong views about abortion. I think it is totally wrong, unless the girl became pregnant through rape, if the baby is severly disabled, or if having a baby would damage the mother's health (and other circumstances similar to those).

I don't agree with a abortion because the baby is severly disabled. Far enough if the mother couldn't care for the child, but to legalise abortion for people whose child will be disabled would send a terrible message to disabled people in society. Also the defination of severely disabled would prove difficult to enforce

People would then lie that they have been raped.
Im against abortion, I think its murder.
But hey each to their own.

There would be signs of forced entry is there was a rape, so it'd be difficult to lie

I don't think parents should prevent their daughter from having an abortion if she wanted one. They should RESPECT her choice

The reason parents make choices for their children is children are, almost exclusively, complete morons incapable of acting rational. If you are under 18, it's your parents decision, not yours.

[Jess]

The reason parents make choices for their children is children are, almost exclusively, complete morons incapable of acting rational. If you are under 18, it's your parents decision, not yours.

it's my decision no matter what age I am, unless I'm 9 or something, which I should get an abortion anyways

[The Dark Lord]

it's my decision no matter what age I am, unless I'm 9 or something, which I should get an abortion anyways

Not legally it's not. Abortion should be legal for those incapable of looking after their child or if the birth posses serious health risks, but the attitude I don't want kids so I'm having an abortion should not be allowed. If you don't want kids, don't have sex!

[Kaya]

I think abortion should only be available to special needs (ex: Paralyzed, mentally retarted) If you're not able to understand what a baby is, you shouldn't be able to have one. For example, my younger brother is special needs. He thinks a baby is like a doll, and you can do whatever you want to it. That isn't a parent.

[Ali_Cat]

Abortion, In my honest opinion, is close enough to murder.
I don`t think there is any difference in the way a fetus looks different from an infant, as an infant looks different from a child, and as a child looks different from an adult.

I believe abortion should only be legal when birth puts the mothers life in danger, or in a case of rape.
Adoption will always be there. There will always be people in the world willing to adopt.
Abortion, to often lately, is seen as a easy way out. A quick fix, and it really makes me sick. Why take the life of someone who could bring other people so much joy?

Not to mention abortion can have permanent, horrible effects on the mother. Sometimes resulting in the ability to no longer get pregnant, depression, and suicide.

My fiance and I plan to adopt. I know without a doubt in my heart that that child is going to mean the world to me. All thanks to the mother who was giving enough to realize her child would have a better life with thoes who could provide for her properly.

[georgiamay]

All you people that have said, "It's murder, it's wrong! But if a women is raped, it's ok..." Are you saying that "murder" is right sometimes in certain circumstances? Some people have said, "If you're mentally retarded and don't even understand what a baby is then you should have an abortion," but is it so different? A feotus is a feotus. You're almost saying if something bad happens, then it's ok to do something that is (in your opinion) also bad. Personally, I think that's just wrong to say that only some women are allowed to have a choice depending on their situation.

You can't say that abortion is right in some cases but not in others. Who decides when it's right and when it's not? One person could have been raped, and in most people's opinion (from what I can see from this thread) that's ok. How? How do you decide where to draw the line? No one can, abortion should never be made illegal in any way. If it is made illegal, women will just go back to getting them backstreet abortions. You know, the ones that killed so many women and their feotus'? It makes no sense to me to make abortion illegal.

I also don't see why people are bothered about other people's decisions. If you think it's so wrong, then don't do it. If other people want to do it, that's their decision.

You might say, "But some people will use it as a form of contraception." Bullshit. No women would have an abortion every month.

[Jess]

Abortion, In my honest opinion, is close enough to murder.
I don`t think there is any difference in the way a fetus looks different from an infant, as an infant looks different from a child, and as a child looks different from an adult.

I believe abortion should only be legal when birth puts the mothers life in danger, or in a case of rape.
Adoption will always be there. There will always be people in the world willing to adopt.
Abortion, to often lately, is seen as a easy way out. A quick fix, and it really makes me sick. Why take the life of someone who could bring other people so much joy?

Not to mention abortion can have permanent, horrible effects on the mother. Sometimes resulting in the ability to no longer get pregnant, depression, and suicide.

My fiance and I plan to adopt. I know without a doubt in my heart that that child is going to mean the world to me. All thanks to the mother who was giving enough to realize her child would have a better life with thoes who could provide for her properly.

yes maybe adoption is better but no one should make decisions for others. if a woman wants an abortion, she should have one. PERIOD. her decision. no one else's

[The Dark Lord]

Abortion, to often lately, is seen as a easy way out. A quick fix, and it really makes me sick. Why take the life of someone who could bring other people so much joy?

It's more relief than joy in my opinion, but I see what you're saying

Not to mention abortion can have permanent, horrible effects on the mother. Sometimes resulting in the ability to no longer get pregnant, depression, and suicide.

These effects are probably offset with the fact that preganance can lead to depression and suicide as well as having a child you're incapable of raising. I'd rather see 1 person's life fucked up than 2 people's lives fucked.

My fiance and I plan to adopt. I know without a doubt in my heart that that child is going to mean the world to me. All thanks to the mother who was giving enough to realize her child would have a better life with thoes who could provide for her properly.

There's more to being a parent than loving your child, although it's a good start. Hope all goes well with any future adoption.

yes maybe adoption is better but no one should make decisions for others. if a woman wants an abortion, she should have one. PERIOD. her decision. no one else's

If we applied this law for every possible scenairo, we would be living in anarchy. A simple law for life is: people are stupid. People are too stupid and irrational to make decisions for themselves in many cases. I'm essentially pro-choice but if you are stupid enough to have unprotected sex when you don't want children, then you have to live with that.

[Ali_Cat]

If we applied this law for every possible scenairo, we would be living in anarchy. A simple law for life is: people are stupid. People are too stupid and irrational to make decisions for themselves in many cases. I'm essentially pro-choice but if you are stupid enough to have unprotected sex when you don't want children, then you have to live with that.

Exactly.

[Ambrosia]

It's unconstitutional to take a womans right away like that. We have a voice and we have a CHOICE (oh look at my rhyme!). It's wrong, very very very wrong, to abort a pregnancy more then five weeks in. As soon as you have to do SURGERY to remove the unborn fetus then it becomes murder. But if all there is is an embryo then you have all the right in the world to say "Hey, I'm not ready for this baby yet..."

Originally Posted by Socko
Contraceptives aren't 100 percent fucking change. Holy hell how many times do I have to say it?

Birth Control Pills are 97 to 98 percent effective depending on whether or not you take them religiously. That combined with a condom can pretty much make it 100% effective (unless you have HORRIBLE luck). But the fact is even people who try every single little thing to prevent pregnancy get pregnant. I know four women who got their tubes tied and still got pregnant (One of them twice, once with a condom). It happens. Tough luck. Abortion should be there.

[Jess]

one of my classmates in Government class is pro-life and he gave this reason

"If someone kills a pregnant woman, it would be two murders, murder of the mother and the unborn child. Abortion is no different."

I agree that it would be double murder to kill a pregnant woman, but I still don't believe abortion is murder...

[Korashk]

I agree that it would be double murder to kill a pregnant woman, but I still don't believe abortion is murder...
Why? This is one of the things I hate most about the law in some places.

[The Dark Lord]

one of my classmates in Government class is pro-life and he gave this reason

"If someone kills a pregnant woman, it would be two murders, murder of the mother and the unborn child. Abortion is no different."

I agree that it would be double murder to kill a pregnant woman, but I still don't believe abortion is murder...

It depends on your defination of murder

[Amnesiac]

one of my classmates in Government class is pro-life and he gave this reason

"If someone kills a pregnant woman, it would be two murders, murder of the mother and the unborn child. Abortion is no different."

I agree that it would be double murder to kill a pregnant woman, but I still don't believe abortion is murder...

Well, I believe he's incorrect. I'm pretty sure the choice to prosecute someone for either one or two murders of a pregnant woman is at the discretion of the court and jury, and is probably influenced heavily by the area of the country it happened in. Besides, that's a weak reason to be pro-life, considering the law can be changed. It's basically a "the law says this is wrong, so this is wrong!" kind of thing. Guess what? The law also legalizes early-term abortions.

[Kaya]

http://www.priestsforlife.org/partialbirth.html
(scroll down for pictures)

This is WRONG! Partial-birth abortions. They deliver the baby except for the head. Then kill it. What's the point in that?

[Korashk]

http://www.priestsforlife.org/partialbirth.html
(scroll down for pictures)

This is WRONG! Partial-birth abortions. They deliver the baby except for the head. Then kill it. What's the point in that?
I think most ARE against that. I know I am. Although, that shouldn't really be a reason for being against abortion as a whole. Third trimester abortions (not partial-birth, but third trimester) comprise about 1% of all abortions. I would have to think that partial-birth would be less than .5% of all abortions.

[Jess]

ugh, I'm definitely against that, that is just sick. but that doesn't mean I'm not pro-choice anymore.

[TravM]

I'm definitely pro-abortion. It's a right that shouldn't be denied. If a woman doesn't or isn't capable of having a baby, we shouldn't be the one to judge and say that she can't. I don't get why people would think that we should allow it in only some instances like rape or perhaps she's too young or any other reason. If you allow some girls to (which the US does), then all girls should be able to for whatever reason.

[Kaya]

Ok...all the pro-choice people,

Look at these:
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=AhBsAidKdcR.V2G3XOCtj56bvZx4?p=Aborted+Babies&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=fptb-ygames

[Iceman]

Ok...all the pro-choice people,

Look at these:
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=AhBsAidKdcR.V2G3XOCtj56bvZx4?p=Aborted+Babies&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=fptb-ygames

I did. And I also shrugged it off.

[ShaneK]

I'm pro-choice. As its a womans body it should be her choice.

[Sage]

Ok...all the pro-choice people,

Look at these:
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=AhBsAidKdcR.V2G3XOCtj56bvZx4?p=Aborted+Babies&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=fptb-ygames

http://thegoldensombrero.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/hhn071.jpg

Note how my scary picture doesn't prove anything either.

[Kaya]

They aren't just "scary pictures." Those are REAL babies that are DEAD. What did they do that made them deserve death?

"The right to ones body isn't the right to kill."
-Unknown

[Iceman]

There is a reason that quote is from "unknown".

[Sage]

They aren't just "scary pictures." Those are REAL babies that are DEAD.
You're missing the point that posting a picture isn't a legitimate argument.

"The right to ones body isn't the right to kill."
-Unknown
"A witty saying doesn't prove anything."
-Voltaire

[Kaya]

It's unknown because I saw it in a picture. You know, if I had a dollar for each time someone pissed me off today I'd be rich. I'm not posting here anymore because I know I'll just get all worked up.

[Iceman]

Some people Sage, some people.

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/687fea91677be9103defb8dc0b97e8b7.gif (http://www.threadbombing.com/details.php?image_id=3751)

[Jess]

They aren't just "scary pictures." Those are REAL babies that are DEAD. What did they do that made them deserve death?

"The right to ones body isn't the right to kill."
-Unknown

I'll admit those pics made me sick. but it's still the woman's decision no matter what.

/repeat

[Vonn]

Aren't babies aborted before they're actually considered human?

[Iceman]

Aren't babies aborted before they're actually considered human?

Yes, most of the time.

[Sage]

Aren't babies aborted before they're actually considered human?

A large majority of doctors willing to perform abortions will only do so during the first and second trimesters.

[Sogeking]

If you don't want kids, use contraception, or abstain altogether.

[ShaneK]

Contary to popular belief I believe in safe sex, but sometimes I forget. That happens to lots of people. So then what, have a kid?

[Sage]

Contary to popular belief I believe in safe sex, but sometimes I forget. That happens to lots of people. So then what, have a kid?

I'm personally irritated by the argument that even if you manage to get pregnant after having safe sex it's wrong to get an abortion. People have every right to indulge in sex for purposes other than procreation. If you can't even abort an unwanted child after taking every precaution, then what is the point of having precautions in the first place?

[ShaneK]

I agree with you Sage I'm pro-choice. Sex is more than just about procreation.

[Korashk]

"The right to ones body isn't the right to kill."
-Unknown
Letting it die =/= killing it. Which is typically what abortion is. Removal of the fetus. It then dies.

You have the right to not be killed, you do not have the right to survive at the unwilling expense of another.

[georgiamay]

It's not killing a "baby", it's stopping it from becoming a baby. It doesn't even have a fully developed nervous system until it's about 9 or 10 weeks, so it doesn't know it's alive, and it doesn't feel pain.

If you're going to come back with, "but preventing life is wrong!" That includes contraception. Contraception prevents life as well, so don't come back with, "SAFE SEX" and all that shit. What if the condom splits when a teenage couple lose their virginity to each other? You think the girl deserves 9 months of morning sickness and funny looks from everyone at school, because a piece of rubber broke? That's hardly fair.

[embers]

Ok...all the pro-choice people,

Look at these:
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=AhBsAidKdcR.V2G3XOCtj56bvZx4?p=Aborted+Babies&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=fptb-ygames

I can post gruesome images of animal slaughter. But meat-eaters will stay meat-eaters, as will I.

They aren't just "scary pictures." Those are REAL babies that are DEAD.

No, they aren't just scary pictures. But what they also aren't are 'real babies'. They're dead foetuses. I can crack an egg, let the yolk spill, call it gruesome and then follow through with a campaign to save chickens from slaughter. But you know what? It doesn't matter. Because eggs don't feel, neither do growing embryos within eggs, and neither do the foetuses. And the same goes with us.

What did they do that made them deserve death?

They are not able to do in the first place. Nobody says they deserve death, but the parent doesn't deserve a bad future, and nor does the (usually) unintended baby. The best thing to do is to let it go before it develops the ability to feel.

[The Dark Lord]

If you don't want kids, use contraception, or abstain altogether.

You underestimate the stupidity of the human race.

I'll admit those pics made me sick. but it's still the woman's decision no matter what.

/repeat

Repeatition adds neither substance nor validity to your argument

[Bluesman]

You underestimate the stupidity of the human race.

I agree. The human race is stupid as shit. But should a baby have to pay for our stupidity? It is innocent and has done nothing wrong... should it really pay for our stupidity with its life?

[The Dark Lord]

I agree. The human race is stupid as shit. But should a baby have to pay for our stupidity? It is innocent and has done nothing wrong... should it really pay for our stupidity with its life?

Yes, yes it should. People who are unequipped to have children should not have children.

[Vonn]

I agree. The human race is stupid as shit. But should a baby have to pay for our stupidity? It is innocent and has done nothing wrong... should it really pay for our stupidity with its life?

Technically, at the (reasonable) time of abortion it isn't a baby and is not alive. It's a preferable alternative to being born and having a miserable life because the parents aren't stable enough for a child.

This world has far too many children anyway.

[embers]

This world has far too many children anyway.

Agreed. If anything, abortion should be considered a good deed when needed. Not contributing to overpopulation, not murdering, and actually making sure that someone isn't born into a shitty life.

[Bluesman]

This world has far too many children anyway.
Just keep in mind that at one time you were that child... you could've been the baby who was aborted. You wouldn't be here right now... how would that be?

[Vonn]

Just keep in mind that at one time you were that child... you could've been the baby who was aborted. You wouldn't be here right now... how would that be?

I wouldn't exist, and therefore would not, could not, give a damn. I wasn't aborted because my mother wanted a child and she, along with my dad, were prepared, stable, and ready. The same can't be said for everybody.

[Bluesman]

I wouldn't exist, and therefore would not, could not, give a damn.

I wasn't aborted because my mother wanted a child and she, along with my dad, were prepared, stable, and ready. The same can't be said for everybody, and again, it's better to destroy the fetus before it has the chance to live if it's going to be born into an unstable life.

Whatever... I still can't see how you can rationalize abortion but you probably can't see how I rationalize half of my political views either.

[Vonn]

Whatever... I still can't see how you can rationalize abortion but you probably can't see how I rationalize half of my political views either.

I'm rationalizing it because it's a rational decision. It's not like people go around getting pregnant on purpose and killing the fetus for the lulz.

A teenage couple ends up getting pregnant. They can't abort it because it's frowned upon. The baby is born and its life, and the life of the parents, turns to shit. They anonymously leave the baby on the steps of an orphanage on a dark and stormy night and voila, there's another abandoned child forcibly thrust into the world. Repeat. The end.

[Iceman]

Such a great arguement I must say. How would you feel? Huh.

http://i41.tinypic.com/erbbiw.jpg

[Bluesman]

I'm rationalizing it because it's a rational decision. It's not like people go around getting pregnant on purpose and killing the fetus for the lulz.

A teenage couple ends up getting pregnant. They can't abort it because it's frowned upon. The baby is born and its life, and the life of the parents, turns to shit. All of this could have been prevented had the baby been aborted before it was even alive.

Well since they were too ignorant to use a condom she would have the child, then put it up for adoption. I could maybe see an abortion if the mother's life is at risk, but otherwise, the child should be delivered, and if the parents cannot support the child that child should be immediately put up for adoption.

[Iceman]

Have you not read the other 1000 post about that arguement

[Vonn]

Well since they were too ignorant to use a condom

Because that completely prevents pregnancy, 100% guaranteed.

and if the parents cannot support the child that child should be immediately put up for adoption.

Because orphanages need more children.

[Bluesman]

Have you not read the other 1000 post about that arguement

Yes I have, obviously you have not or you would see that there is perfectly reasonable logic behind them.

[Iceman]

Oh, my.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_z5Ru9kCZGF8/THphKohIb4I/AAAAAAAABzU/TmfkPgHiMpo/s1600/facepalm_statue.jpg

[Vonn]

Condoms shouldn't even be brought up in this argument anymore. It's been established multiple times that they are prone to failure like everything else in the world.

[Iceman]

Condoms shouldn't even be brought up in this argument anymore. It's been established multiple times that they are prone to failure like everything else in the world.

No they haven't he should know that because he "read" everything

[Perseus]

Well since they were too ignorant to use a condom she would have the child, then put it up for adoption. I could maybe see an abortion if the mother's life is at risk, but otherwise, the child should be delivered, and if the parents cannot support the child that child should be immediately put up for adoption.

What's the difference between using a condom and aborting? Oh, that's right. Nothing. Since, either way, a baby does not come into existence. An aborted fetus, before it's aborted, if done before it has a nervous system, etc. isn't technically alive because it can't feel, think, or even do anything a human can do at birth. It's not a human. It's a human to be.

There's no guarantee that you will get adopted. Why? Because there already too many children in orphanages, etc. and not everyone is adopting. And I can't believe you wouldn't let a woman get an abortion if it threatens her life. You just killed a woman because of your radical views. Good job. I hope you feel better.

Condoms are not 100% and being adopted having a good life is not 100% either if you put a baby up for adoption. This is the 21st Century. Things like abortion should be legal because it is the right of the woman. It's fine if you don't find it moral, etc. Just don't force it on people and make it where they can't have one because you feel it's "immoral" and "murdering a baby". It's their baby. It's living off of them. In fact, aborted fetuses can be used for stem cell research, which furthers scientific research for mankind. People can use stem cells. And yes, I'm aware you can get them from other sources, but it's not like the dead fetus just sits there in the trash or something.

[Korashk]

Whatever... I still can't see how you can rationalize abortion
If you get into an accident should I be required to donate body parts to fix you if I'm able to?

[Sogeking]

I'm rationalizing it because it's a rational decision. It's not like people go around getting pregnant on purpose and killing the fetus for the lulz.

A teenage couple ends up getting pregnant. They can't abort it because it's frowned upon. The baby is born and its life, and the life of the parents, turns to shit. They anonymously leave the baby on the steps of an orphanage on a dark and stormy night and voila, there's another abandoned child forcibly thrust into the world. Repeat. The end.

You are overgeneralizing pal, you do not have a right to speak for a group.

[Iceman]

You are overgeneralizing pal, you do not have a right to speak for a group.

What.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQc8nwJojfautvndBDzHVytK0Pa-SJKm5Di3gtnoUFtWV_WGOiTsA&t=1

[The Dark Lord]

Just keep in mind that at one time you were that child... you could've been the baby who was aborted. You wouldn't be here right now... how would that be?

I hope you see the stupidity of that argument.

Whatever... I still can't see how you can rationalize abortion but you probably can't see how I rationalize half of my political views either.

Abortion isn't a political question, its a question on morality.

You are overgeneralizing pal, you do not have a right to speak for a group.

If your talking sbout teenage parents, then they are almost exclusively unprepared and incapable of raising a successful child.

[Jess]

Well since they were too ignorant to use a condom she would have the child, then put it up for adoption. I could maybe see an abortion if the mother's life is at risk, but otherwise, the child should be delivered, and if the parents cannot support the child that child should be immediately put up for adoption.

okay, I'm repeating myself a billion times


you, and no one else, has the right to tell a woman she shouldn't have an abortion.

It. Is. HER. decision. END OF STORY


that's all :P

[The Dark Lord]

okay, I'm repeating myself a billion times

Repetition doesn't add validity to an argument. If you have a serious argument to make then post, if not, there's not much point in posting. It's my decision if I wanted to kill someone, but it doesn't make it okay.

[georgiamay]

It's my decision if I wanted to kill someone, but it doesn't make it okay.

That depends on what you class as "someone."
Personally, I don't think a feotus is a someone. If it doesn't know it's alive or can't feel pain then it's not a person.

[The Dark Lord]

That depends on what you class as "someone."
Personally, I don't think a feotus is a someone. If it doesn't know it's alive or can't feel pain then it's not a person.

No, neither do I. My point was you can't justify something but saying "it's my choice, no-one elses."

[Triceratops]

Wow I remember posting in these abortion threads soooo long ago and having a completely opposite opinion to what I'm giving now.

I don't agree that life begins at conception. To me, a fetus is just a fetus - it can't sense or feel anything. It is the woman's choice whether she wants to have a baby or not, and no one should dictate that just because they think it's "murder". To say abortion is murder is just ignorance to me.

Disabilities, age, drug/alcohol addictions, financial difficulties or emotional/mental problems, etc can affect the way a child is bought up. Giving birth to a baby that's going to be introduced to such environments will put a huge amount of distress on the mother. Having an abortion to prevent this is best for the mother's sake alone, let alone the for the child.

As for rape, well, that's a no brainer really. To those who are on the pro-life side of the argument, I would like to see what you would do if you were carrying some twisted rapist's baby. That child would be a permanent scar in your life of the entire ordeal. Everytime you look at that child you will see everything replaying itself over and over again. You will never ever be able to escape from it. Have fun enduring perpetual psychological torture.

The way I see it is that a child is a lot worse off being born into a home where the parents don't really want it, as opposed to it being aborted - simply because it's not fair on the child. A fetus can't feel physical or emotional pain, whereas a real child can.

I think forcing a woman to give birth to a child when they don't want to is A LOT more cruel than getting it aborted. A woman's body, a woman's choice.

EDIT: To whoever said "people should be more careful and put a condom on blah de blah". Contraception is NOT 100% reliable. As if you didn't know that.

[georgiamay]

Wow I remember posting in these abortion threads soooo long ago and having a completely opposite opinion to what I'm giving now.

I don't agree that life begins at conception. To me, a fetus is just a fetus - it can't sense or feel anything. It is the woman's choice whether she wants to have a baby or not, and no one should dictate that just because they think it's "murder". To say abortion is murder is just ignorance to me.

Disabilities, age, drug/alcohol addictions, financial difficulties or emotional/mental problems, etc can affect the way a child is bought up. Giving birth to a baby that's going to be introduced to such environments will put a huge amount of distress on the mother. Having an abortion to prevent this is best for the mother's sake alone, let alone the for the child.

As for rape, well, that's a no brainer really. To those who are on the pro-life side of the argument, I would like to see what you would do if you were carrying some twisted rapist's baby. That child would be a permanent scar in your life of the entire ordeal. Everytime you look at that child you will see everything replaying itself over and over again. You will never ever be able to escape from it. Have fun enduring perpetual psychological torture.

The way I see it is that a child is a lot worse off being born into a home where the parents don't really want it, as opposed to it being aborted - simply because it's not fair on the child. A fetus can't feel physical or emotional pain, whereas a real child can.

I think forcing a woman to give birth to a child when they don't want to is A LOT more cruel than getting it aborted. A woman's body, a woman's choice.

EDIT: To whoever said "people should be more careful and put a condom on blah de blah". Contraception is NOT 100% reliable. As if you didn't know that.

you deserve a balloon for that.
:balloon:

I agree with everything you just said. I would +rep you, but I need to spread it first, bad times.

[Bluesman]

Fine. Obviously I am the only one here who sees abortion as a horrible and almost criminal activity, so I am done.

[Perseus]

Fine. Obviously I am the only one here who sees abortion as a horrible and almost criminal activity, so I am done.

Wow, what is with you leaving threads? It's called debating. Not put your opinion in here and cry when someone else finds fault in it. This is why VT never has interesting debates anymore - because people like you always leave because you're losing. Back up your points. Be confident in your beliefs. Prove that it is horrible and almost a criminal activity. Do it. Don't just leave.

[Bluesman]

Wow, what is with you leaving threads? It's called debating. Not put your opinion in here and cry when someone else finds fault in it. This is why VT never has interesting debates anymore - because people like you always leave because you're losing. Back up your points. Be confident in your beliefs. Prove that it is horrible and almost a criminal activity. Do it. Don't just leave.

You want proof that it is a horrible and criminal activity? The proof is this: YOU ARE KILLING A HUMAN FETUS! What is at all right about that? The only reason that I was going to leave thread is because people are too ignorant to realize that there is nothing at all right about abortion! Tell me how in the hell you can morally accept abortion? Do you really know what abortion involves!? You can have babys being torn apart and sucked out. I continually bring up the point of how someone can rationalize abortions and yet the answer is always sometime like "because it is ratonalizeable". No one has argued what I've said about adoptions. If you have no argument for that, I assume that means that you accept what I'm saying. If you get knocked up as a teenager, then you can deal with pushing out a baby. If you can't deal with being a parent, then give that baby to someone who will love and enjoy it. What is so damn hard to understand about that?

[Perseus]

You want proof that it is a horrible and criminal activity? The proof is this: YOU ARE KILLING A HUMAN FETUS! No, you are not killing it since it isn't alive. You are not causing death. You are preventing life. Big difference. The fetus not being born is exactly the same as it not being conceived in the first. It's the exact same thing as using a condom, which I'm sure you're all for.

What is at all right about that? The only reason that I was going to leave thread is because people are too ignorant to realize that there is nothing at all right about abortion! You, sir, are the ignorant one since you thinking making it illegal will stop all abortions and people trying to not have children. If they can't do it legally, they'll do it illegally, by themselves or by some sketchy dude. Tell me how in the hell you can morally accept abortion? Do you really know what abortion involves!? You can have babys being torn apart and sucked out. I continually bring up the point of how someone can rationalize abortions and yet the answer is always sometime like "because it is ratonalizeable". Yes, I can morally justify it since it is the woman's choice to have an abortion. It is not killing anything. It is preventing life. I probably have more morals than you when it comes to killing. If I am correct, you believe in the death penalty, which is killing someone. No one has argued what I've said about adoptions. If you have no argument for that, I assume that means that you accept what I'm saying. If you can't deal with being a parent, then give that baby to someone who will love and enjoy it. What is so damn hard to understand about that?


There's no guarantee that you will get adopted. Why? Because there already too many children in orphanages, etc. and not everyone is adopting.

[Vonn]

You want proof that it is a horrible and criminal activity? The proof is this: YOU ARE KILLING A HUMAN FETUS! What is at all right about that? The only reason that I was going to leave thread is because people are too ignorant to realize that there is nothing at all right about abortion! Tell me how in the hell you can morally accept abortion? Do you really know what abortion involves!? You can have babys being torn apart and sucked out. I continually bring up the point of how someone can rationalize abortions and yet the answer is always sometime like "because it is ratonalizeable". No one has argued what I've said about adoptions. If you have no argument for that, I assume that means that you accept what I'm saying. If you get knocked up as a teenager, then you can deal with pushing out a baby. If you can't deal with being a parent, then give that baby to someone who will love and enjoy it. What is so damn hard to understand about that?

A fetus is not a human. It is not alive; it would be prevented from living. (Is there a different word for that?)

Everyone knows what abortion involves. It doesn't matter how it's done specifically (as long as any procedure done is safe) since the end result is the same.

Not every child gets adopted, it's been said before. Most people would rather have their own babies than go out and shop for one. Do you want orphanages to overflow? Is that a better alternative to aborting the fetus so it doesn't have to go through that?

Think of it from someone else's perspective. A sister, a cousin, a young aunt, whatever. Would you tell them the same thing? Would you look them straight in the eye and tell them to suck it up, have the damn baby you did not and do not want?

[Bluesman]

No, you are not killing it since it isn't alive. You are not causing death. You are preventing life. Big difference. The fetus not being born is exactly the same as it not being conceived in the first. It's the exact same thing as using a condom, which I'm sure you're all for.

You, sir, are the ignorant one since you thinking making it illegal will stop all abortions and people trying to not have children. If they can't do it legally, they'll do it illegally, by themselves or by some sketchy dude. Yes, I can morally justify it since it is the woman's choice to have an abortion. It is not killing anything. It is preventing life. I probably have more morals than you when it comes to killing. If I am correct, you believe in the death penalty, which is killing someone.

Yes I do believe in the death penalty. But to get the death penalty, that person did something wrong! The baby, or fetus, or whatever you choose to call it, never did anything wrong! It is innocent! Therefore, why should it have its life prevented?

[Vonn]

Yes I do believe in the death penalty. But to get the death penalty, that person did something wrong! The baby, or fetus, or whatever you choose to call it, never did anything wrong! It is innocent! Therefore, why should it have its life prevented?

Just because someone did something wrong doesn't mean they deserve to die. Oftentimes they need serious help. /off topic

The fetus is not alive, and cannot be killed. Its life is prevented. There is no death involved. The reasons for aborting the fetus vary, but all of them come down to the fetus or the family, or both, having an unpleasant life.

[Perseus]

Yes I do believe in the death penalty. But to get the death penalty, that person did something wrong! The baby, or fetus, or whatever you choose to call it, never did anything wrong! It is innocent! Therefore, why should it have its life prevented?

Your point? It's still killing someone. Killing is killing no matter how you justify it. Now, that's a different topic for a different time.

You're not getting the point - aborting a fetus, before it is the equivalent of a baby (I don't know when that is), is not killing it or anything. It is the same thing as using a condom. The baby just never exists. A condom prevents a woman from getting pregnant. The abortion prevents the fetus from becoming a baby. What part of that do you not understand?

Most of the time when a woman gets an abortion, it's so the baby doesn't have a crappy life because they can't support it, etc. I don't see what's wrong with that. The parents are being responsible. They shouldn't be forced to go through something that was an accident. And like I said, adoption isn't always the best thing. It doesn't always work out in the end like you seem to think it does.

[Triceratops]

What is at all right about that? The only reason that I was going to leave thread is because people are too ignorant to realize that there is nothing at all right about abortion!

LOL. Just LOL.

This, quoted right here, just backfires and shows how extraordinarily ignorant you are. :rolleyes:

Tell me how in the hell you can morally accept abortion?

Tell me how you can morally accept forcing a rape victim to give birth to the child of the man who sexually abused her?

Do you really know what abortion involves!? You can have babys being torn apart and sucked out.

No. A fetus can not feel any pain before 24 weeks. Stop making assumptions on random bullshittery.

If you get knocked up as a teenager, then you can deal with pushing out a baby. If you can't deal with being a parent, then give that baby to someone who will love and enjoy it. What is so damn hard to understand about that?

That is absolute stupidity. I don't think you have the slightest CLUE of what a young girl would have to endure for 9 months with a baby inside her. You will NEVER even have to experience that. Giving birth to a baby is one of the hardest things a woman could go through. You are very naive to say "oh just give it up for adoption it'll all be fine lol" because it's not that straight forward. Put yourself in a pregnant woman's shoes; think about going through that whole long process of pregnancy and giving birth to it just then give it away. The entire 9 months is fucking hard work and will seem like forever, and I know this because I know quite a lot of people my age that have been through it. Pushing out the baby is a much more difficult experience. It's agony. Going through that could potentially be mentally scarring, and it must be hella weird and horrible for the woman who went through that when they do not want a child/are completely not ready for one. I know for a fact I would never put myself through that unless I was absolutely ready to bring up a child.

[embers]

Therefore, why should it have its life prevented?

I believe you said you support the usage of condoms. They prevent life. Explain yourself.

[Iceman]

Yes I do believe in the death penalty. But to get the death penalty, that person did something wrong! The baby, or fetus, or whatever you choose to call it, never did anything wrong! It is innocent! Therefore, why should it have its life prevented?

It's life never existed. So therefore, it's life could never be prevented and/or accepted.

[embers]

It's life never existed. So therefore, it's life could never be prevented and/or accepted.

Actually, that's incorrect. You can prevent life even if it doesn't exist in the first place. It's called contraception. Abortion = preventing the creation of life.

[Iceman]

Actually, that's incorrect. You can prevent life even if it doesn't exist in the first place. It's called contraception. Abortion = preventing the creation of life.

It's not
100
percent.

I'm going to get grey hairs from these people.

[Korashk]

Fine. Obviously I am the only one here who sees abortion as a horrible and almost criminal activity, so I am done.
I've asked you this about 3 times in the thread:

If I can save a person's life by donating some part of my body to them, temporarily or permanently, but I don't and they die; did I kill them?

Do you think that in a situation such as this one I should be forced to help this other person?

[embers]

It's not
100
percent.

I'm going to get grey hairs from these people.

I never said it was. I said contraception is a form of preventing life, I didn't address whether it was 100% accurate or not. None of your grey hairs should come from me.

[Iceman]

That's why I said these people. It was generalizing.

[embers]

But implying I am a part of this generalised group is wrong. I was just pointing out that the prevention of life isn't impossible.

[Iceman]

Now your assuming things.
I never implied you as part of that.

[Korashk]

Now your assuming things.
I never implied you as part of that.
You can't tell people what was and wasn't implied. That's not how implication works.

[Sogeking]

It's life never existed. If it's not alive, yet at the same time it's not dead, then what is it?

[embers]

If it's not alive, yet at the same time it's not dead, then what is it?

Existent.

[Iceman]

You can't tell people what was and wasn't implied. That's not how implication works.

implied- indicated, or suggested without being directly or explicitly stated

I didn't directly state who it was. I generalized it. Only I know who "they" are.

[Sogeking]

Existent. a lifeless anomaly?

[Iceman]

a lifeless anomaly?

What's an ovum then.

[embers]

a lifeless anomaly?

This:

What's an ovum then.

Besides: what's a chair, even? A lifeless anomaly?

[Sogeking]

what's a chair, even? A lifeless anomaly?

Chairs are inanimate objects, while one-celled organisms aren't.

To tell you the truth however, I wasn't thinking about one-celled organisms when I posted my previous comment.

[georgiamay]

If it's not alive, yet at the same time it's not dead, then what is it?

Before conception, it doesn't exist, it isn't anything.
After conception, it's a collection of cells. A bit like an ant. People kill ants all the time and that doesn't turn into a massive moral issue.

See, I don't even think it's the same as killing an ant, because an ant is already a being, it's where it's meant to be already in it's development. It's an ant.

I feotus is meant to be a human, but it's not there yet. If the mother doesn't want it to grow into a human, then I don't see the problem with her doing so, it's her body, her feotus, her choice.

[Bluesman]

I believe you said you support the usage of condoms. They prevent life. Explain yourself.

Complicated... I believe that something is alive at the point of conception, not before. The reason that I said "preventing a life" is because that is the term that Perseus used. I believe that abortion is killing, not preventing a life... please tell me if this doesn't make sense, if it doesn't I'll try to explain myself more clearly.

[Bluesman]

LOL. Just LOL.

This, quoted right here, just backfires and shows how extraordinarily ignorant you are. :rolleyes:



Tell me how you can morally accept forcing a rape victim to give birth to the child of the man who sexually abused her?



No. A fetus can not feel any pain before 24 weeks. Stop making assumptions on random bullshittery.



That is absolute stupidity. I don't think you have the slightest CLUE of what a young girl would have to endure for 9 months with a baby inside her. You will NEVER even have to experience that. Giving birth to a baby is one of the hardest things a woman could go through. You are very naive to say "oh just give it up for adoption it'll all be fine lol" because it's not that straight forward. Put yourself in a pregnant woman's shoes; think about going through that whole long process of pregnancy and giving birth to it just then give it away. The entire 9 months is fucking hard work and will seem like forever, and I know this because I know quite a lot of people my age that have been through it. Pushing out the baby is a much more difficult experience. It's agony. Going through that could potentially be mentally scarring, and it must be hella weird and horrible for the woman who went through that when they do not want a child/are completely not ready for one. I know for a fact I would never put myself through that unless I was absolutely ready to bring up a child.

I could live with rape victims being an exemption... I still don't agree with it, but I could stomach abortions on rape victims and cases where the mother's life is in danger.


Pain or not, that doesn't change what is happening.


Simple. Then dont get pregnant. It's as simple as that, if you aren't prepared to go through all of that then use birth control or be abstinent.

Your point? It's still killing someone. Killing is killing no matter how you justify it. Now, that's a different topic for a different time.

You're not getting the point - aborting a fetus, before it is the equivalent of a baby (I don't know when that is), is not killing it or anything. It is the same thing as using a condom. The baby just never exists. A condom prevents a woman from getting pregnant. The abortion prevents the fetus from becoming a baby. What part of that do you not understand?

Most of the time when a woman gets an abortion, it's so the baby doesn't have a crappy life because they can't support it, etc. I don't see what's wrong with that. The parents are being responsible. They shouldn't be forced to go through something that was an accident. And like I said, adoption isn't always the best thing. It doesn't always work out in the end like you seem to think it does.

Once again, adoption. Could someone please adress that? Why can't the mother just put the baby up for adoption?

[Jess]

did you answer Korashk's question?

I've asked you this about 3 times in the thread:

If I can save a person's life by donating some part of my body to them, temporarily or permanently, but I don't and they die; did I kill them?

Do you think that in a situation such as this one I should be forced to help this other person?

[Bluesman]

did you answer Korashk's question?

Now I did :)

No I do not think you should be forced to, but frankly I do not see how this is relevant?