Islamophobia is acceptable.

[embers]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jan/20/lady-warsi-islamophobia-muslims-prejudice

Islamophobia is now becoming acceptable in society not just in Britain, but globally, because of the current state of affairs. Personally, I can certainly see it taking effect: people in my year with IQs lower than their shoe size are heading over to the English Defense League demonstration in Luton (http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/people_living_in_fear_of_edl_demo_1_2288362). They've, for some fucked up reason, been convinced that the EDL exists to 'oppose Islamic extremism', but they're really a bunch of paki-bashers and Islamophobes. Even knowing this, they're still going along so they can fight Muslims in Luton - a majority Asian/Muslim town.

That's just one example of Islamophobia reaching its arms out everywhere.

Discuss.

[JunkBondTrader]

Okay, the EDL are a bunch of pricks, I agree with you completely on that, but what Baroness Warsi said really ticked me off I have to say.

See, I don't like people who are openly hostile towards muslims. It irritates me. Plain and simple, considering that quite a few of my friends come from muslim backgrounds. But I reserve the right to criticise the religion itself, not it's followers. This has had me branded as Islamophobic.

I was born a Catholic and still consider myself one for cultural reasons even though my faith in god has lapsed considerably and I'm what most people would call an agnostic. I criticise Catholicism as I would any religion. Islam shouldn't be an exception just because it's a minority religion in the UK. I respect Islam but reserve my right to say whatever the hell I like about it.

Oh, and Luton is most certainly not a Muslim majority town. 2005 figures estimate it to be about 16%.

[embers]

I agree with you totally - you should have the right to criticise any religion. I wasn't quoting the Baroness because I agreed with everything she said, but because it's what lead me to make this topic.

Criticising Islam doesn't make you Islamophobic - in my eyes; it probably does in my home country though, as well as put you on death row. But this demonstration is way above where people like me draw the line.

Oh, and Luton is most certainly not a Muslim majority town. 2005 figures estimate it to be about 16%.

Oh, shit. I guess that's just Bury Park making an impression on me (it's like a mini subcontinent out there) >.< But I heard the EDL are going to march through Bury Park, so I imagine that's where they'll meet the most 'resistance'?

[JunkBondTrader]

I agree with you totally - you should have the right to criticise any religion. I wasn't quoting the Baroness because I agreed with everything she said, but because it's what lead me to make this topic.

Thank you! Although, I have to say, despite disagreeing with the details, it's quite refreshing hearing this from a Tory like her.

Criticising Islam doesn't make you Islamophobic - in my eyes; it probably does in my home country though, as well as put you on death row. But this demonstration is way above where people like me draw the line.

Exactly. I do oppose what one would call "extremist" Islam, but the EDL are no better. They're propagating a form of English nationalism which is equally, if not more dangerous, considering the English are the majority in the UK.

They insist they're not racist which I don't believe, but the sad thing is people are falling for it. I remember seeing a documentary on them which featured a member who was both a Pakistani Muslim and Scottish, which really made me feel sad for him, although he soon realised the type of people he'd fallen in with and looked uncomfortable for the rest of the program.

The EDL annoy me not just because of racial hatred, but because a lot of their members hold beliefs regarding the union which I do not believe in.[/quote]

Oh, shit. I guess that's just Bury Park making an impression on me (it's like a mini subcontinent out there) >.< But I heard the EDL are going to march through Bury Park, so I imagine that's where they'll meet the most 'resistance'?

Sorry, I didn't mean to be a statistics nazi. But yes, they are almost certainly trying to stir up trouble by marching through a predominantly Asian area. They call themselves non-violent but all they're really going to accomplish here is to increase racial tensions, like we saw up north a few years ago. And that only leads to one thing...

[The Dark Lord]

Stop listening to Baroness Warsi, OP.

[steve1234]

Since when was it acceptable? Some people think its acceptable, and that will probably always be the case, but the majority of people believe its unacceptable.

The same goes for all kinds of racism/sexism/ageism etc etc. I don't really understand Warsi's point here. Its not acceptable to be racist against anyone in the UK. In fact, it was probably more acceptable in the past, not now.

And btw, (as someone has already said) Luton does not have a majority Asian/Muslim population. 'White British' is 68%, whereas 'Asian or Asian British' is just 19%.
Many people in the UK (especially Daily Mail/The Sun readers) assume Britain is being 'overrun' by 'ethnic minorities', when in fact 'white british' is well and truly in the majority.

One day, I really hope there won't be any racist organisations in the UK, such as the BNP, EDL and all those extremist Muslim groups, but I doubt that will ever happen, sadly.
Tensions in this country are far from over.
In fact, I was in east London today, where there was some Islamist group preaching some religious hate, and some stereotypically white builders 'working' on a building opposite the demonstration, shouting: "EDL, EDL!!!".
Pathetic!

[Bluesman]

I have nothing against peaceful islams, but in my opinion the peaceful Islams are the minority. Islam is a violent religion by nature:

"And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

"And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah"

"Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against [referring to Jihad] them with the utmost strenuousness..."

That is all taken directly out of the Quran. And people call that a religion of peace? The Quran has 109 verses about violence toward other religions. Why shouldn't people have a fear or dislike of someone who believes in that?

[Magus]

That is all taken directly out of the Quran. And people call that a religion of peace? The Quran has 109 verses about violence toward other religions. Why shouldn't people have a fear or dislike of someone who believes in that?But what the apologists mostly say? They say that most of these verses are taken out of Context. Those mostly happened during the wars between the Pagans and the Muslims.

And peaceful Muslims are majority BTW - most of them are not hellbent Muslims that wants to kill you. The Extremist, Radicals - whatever are those who follows some factions: like Islamic Brotherhood in Egypt(who I suspect are the ones who blow up the coptic church) and Hezbullah of Lebanon.

But meh. I care less about that.

[embers]

That is all taken directly out of the Quran. And people call that a religion of peace? The Quran has 109 verses about violence toward other religions. Why shouldn't people have a fear or dislike of someone who believes in that?

Most Islamophobes don't even know those verses. They just glance at the TV, see 'bombing by Islamic radicals' and think 'look, pakis are terrorists' and a fascist is born.

Why would Christians believe in a Bible that is homophobic (as well as anti-fetish, though bestiality is quite weird, it shouldn't be a sin) and pro-slavery among other things? Despite those being in the Old Testament, it is still the word of God, and those were the rules he once set down before he had a change of heart. Makes you wonder what kind of a guy God really is. At what point did he cease to be a war-hungry, short-tempered figure?

Why shouldn't we fear the Hindus because their Gods fought each other frequently? Islamophobia exists not because of the verses in the Qur'an, but because of current global affairs that people do not pay enough attention to.

[Syvelocin]

The terrorists are Muslims, not the other way around.

We forget that Islam is not alone. The only truly peaceful religions are not Abrahamic.

[gingeylover14]

i dont think you shoul pass judgment on all ppl of a certian race due to the actions of some more radical ppl of the race or culture so i have to say no i dnt think its acceptable

[Magus]

i dont think you shoul pass judgment on all ppl of a certian race due to the actions of some more radical ppl of the race or culture so i have to say no i dnt think its acceptableIslam is not a race or a culture: It's a religion.

Arabs constitute 30% of Muslims, the rest are Asians and Africans.

[Bluesman]

Most Islamophobes don't even know those verses. They just glance at the TV, see 'bombing by Islamic radicals' and think 'look, pakis are terrorists' and a fascist is born.

Why would Christians believe in a Bible that is homophobic (as well as anti-fetish, though bestiality is quite weird, it shouldn't be a sin) and pro-slavery among other things? Despite those being in the Old Testament, it is still the word of God, and those were the rules he once set down before he had a change of heart. Makes you wonder what kind of a guy God really is. At what point did he cease to be a war-hungry, short-tempered figure?

Why shouldn't we fear the Hindus because their Gods fought each other frequently? Islamophobia exists not because of the verses in the Qur'an, but because of current global affairs that people do not pay enough attention to.

Ok, we can agree on something there. Most people that do not like/do not approve of Islam are extremely uneducated. I don't like Islam because I did a project on it that involved a ton of research and a presentation. From what I read I saw it as war-mongering and violent, and I find that anything but peaceful. Just IMO here, but I kind of see the Old Testament as more of a historical writing, kind of like a preface even? It all builds up to the New Testament and the birth of Jesus. I'm by no means a religious expert, but that's what I believe. I guess my whole point here is that to be Islamophobic, you should be educated about Islam.

[embers]

Ok, we can agree on something there. Most people that do not like/do not approve of Islam are extremely uneducated. I don't like Islam because I did a project on it that involved a ton of research and a presentation. From what I read I saw it as war-mongering and violent, and I find that anything but peaceful. Just IMO here, but I kind of see the Old Testament as more of a historical writing, kind of like a preface even? It all builds up to the New Testament and the birth of Jesus. I'm by no means a religious expert, but that's what I believe. I guess my whole point here is that to be Islamophobic, you should be educated about Islam.

I assume you saw it as war-mongering and violent because of its context. Lots of it is also a historical writing, of Muhammed's struggle. But then again I might be wrong, I haven't read it and haven't done much research.

But even if the Old Testament did 'build up' to the New Testament and Jesus, it was still the word of God. God was this war-mongering violent entity then, too.

[Bluesman]

I assume you saw it as war-mongering and violent because of its context. Lots of it is also a historical writing, of Muhammed's struggle. But then again I might be wrong, I haven't read it and haven't done much research.

But even if the Old Testament did 'build up' to the New Testament and Jesus, it was still the word of God. God was this war-mongering violent entity then, too.

I'd disagree here about God being war mongering but that's getting away from Islamophobia. If you do want to create a thread to debate Christianity then go ahead, I'll be more than happy to argue :)

[embers]

I'd disagree here about God being war mongering but that's getting away from Islamophobia. If you do want to create a thread to debate Christianity then go ahead, I'll be more than happy to argue :)

God is war-mongering in Islam, too. Argue freely, no one's stopping you, it's a debate forum. But I thought we were arguing about God in a more general context, as the God of the Abrahamic faiths rather than of Christianity or Islam in particular.

[Perseus]

I'd disagree here about God being war mongering but that's getting away from Islamophobia. If you do want to create a thread to debate Christianity then go ahead, I'll be more than happy to argue :)

God blew up of Sodom and Gomorrah, and Deadpie can show you a plethora of other things God did in the Old Testament that are war mongering.

[Magus]

God blew up of Sodom and Gomorrah, and Deadpie can show you a plethora of other things God did in the Old Testament that are war mongering.Leave deadpie arrone, check this awesome site: http://www.evilbible.com/

[Alaph]

Often it is acceptable, depends how extream.
Also being Islamophobic is very different to being a paki-basher.
Muslims are not the same as "pakis".

[Magus]

Often it is acceptable, depends how extream.
Also being Islamophobic is very different to being a paki-basher.
Muslims are not the same as "pakis".
I hate Hindi/Paki muzzies who go to foreign(usually secular) country and practice their religion ON other people.

I mean, Arab go to there to have buttsex, gamble, drink and stuff, then come back to repent. But those Hindi-Paki guys... man... makes me want to Bash Islam in front of them.

[Alaph]

I hate Hindi/Paki muzzies who go to foreign(usually secular) country and practice their religion ON other people.

I mean, Arab go to there to have buttsex, gamble, drink and stuff, then come back to repent. But those Hindi-Paki guys... man... makes me want to Bash Islam in front of them.

I hate people practicing their religion ON other people, who don't agree to it, regardless of where they're from.
This has got nothing to do with their race though, and you shouldn't judge them by that.

[Magus]

This has got nothing to do with their race though, and you shouldn't judge them by that.No, not race - but nations and their respective religion.

[Alaph]

No, not race - but nations and their respective religion.

To say everyone, or even most people in a country act like that, is a major over genralization.

[Magus]

To say everyone, or even most people in a country act like that, is a major over genralization.It's not over generalisation. It's a true fact. People are mostly like that. I don't know if whether it is because they are brainwashed, or it's because they do it for the lulz.

[Alaph]

It's not over generalisation. It's a true fact. People are mostly like that. I don't know if whether it is because they are brainwashed, or it's because they do it for the lulz.

How do you know?

[Magus]

How do you know?Because I am living in an Islamic nation in whole my life.

I know a bit of their mentality, you see.

[Alaph]

Because I am living in an Islamic nation in whole my life.

I know a bit of their mentality, you see.

No, you can't assume everyone in a country is like the people you've lived around.
Countries contain different types of people.

[Magus]

Countries contain different types of people.
That's what I have said in my earlier post. Arab people act different, and the subcontinental people act different. Even though they possess the same mental view(from the same religion).

[Alaph]

Yes, you could judge someone by their religion.
But you can't say most muslims imigrants are there to have buttsex, gamble, drink and stuff, then come back to repent.

[Magus]

Yes, you could judge someone by their religion.
But you can't say most muslims imigrants are there to have buttsex, gamble, drink and stuff, then come back to repent.You didn't get it, did you?

[Alaph]

Get what?

[embers]

I hate Hindi/Paki muzzies who go to foreign(usually secular) country and practice their religion ON other people.

I mean, Arab go to there to have buttsex, gamble, drink and stuff, then come back to repent. But those Hindi-Paki guys... man... makes me want to Bash Islam in front of them.

I hate Arab muzzies that wear ridiculous clothing and believe in chopping people's hands off for thievery, not to mention also to practice their religion on others, like their subcontinental counterparts.

Ooh lookie, I just generalised all the Arab muzzies, like you generalised the Indo-Pakistani muzzies. Please, you're a clever guy, don't be bogged down into spouting stupid shit like you just did.

It's not over generalisation. It's a true fact. People are mostly like that. I don't know if whether it is because they are brainwashed, or it's because they do it for the lulz.

Just like it's a true fact that Arabs bathe in oil. End sarcasm.

[Alaph]

I hate Arab muzzies that wear ridiculous clothing and believe in chopping people's hands off for thievery, not to mention also to practice their religion on others, like their subcontinental counterparts.

Ooh lookie, I just generalised all the Arab muzzies, like you generalised the Indo-Pakistani muzzies. Please, you're a clever guy, don't be bogged down into spouting stupid shit like you just did.



Just like it's a true fact that Arabs bathe in oil. End sarcasm.

Who are you talking to?

[embers]

Who are you talking to?

The person I quoted - Electric Nomad/Faris.

[Magus]

I hate Arab muzzies that wear ridiculous clothing and believe in chopping people's hands off for thievery, not to mention also to practice their religion on others, like their subcontinental counterparts.LOL. Ironically, that's true.

Ooh lookie, I just generalised all the Arab muzzies, like you generalised the Indo-Pakistani muzzies. Please, you're a clever guy, don't be bogged down into spouting stupid shit like you just did.Did I say "ALLLLLL INDO-PAKIS ARE MOFOS MUZZIES! AHAHAHAHHA" I said, the ones who are extremely religious and who actually practice their religion on people who do not belong to the same religion -- this occurs both in Arabic nations, South-East Asian nation, and the subcontinental nations. And to add it up, I said they practice in nations that is of Secular nature. Or, maybe I was too vague for you to understand. So, you are saying that there's no such kind of people?
Just like it's a true fact that Arabs bathe in oil. End sarcasm.LOL. The one I have said above is true, however.

Waltz in Pakistan, Say "Fuck Mohammad" and see what kind of response you would get. Do the same in Saudi Arabia, I bet it is the same intense response by the crowds you would get in Pakistan.

[embers]

LOL. Ironically, that's true.
Did I say "ALLLLLL INDO-PAKIS ARE MOFOS MUZZIES! AHAHAHAHHA"

I hate Hindi/Paki muzzies who go to foreign(usually secular) country and practice their religion ON other people.

I mean, Arab go to there to have buttsex, gamble, drink and stuff, then come back to repent. But those Hindi-Paki guys... man... makes me want to Bash Islam in front of them.

No, you implied it.

So, you are saying that there's no such kind of people?

No. I'm simply saying generalising is wrong; I know you didn't mean every single one but the way you phrased it implied it :P

Waltz in Pakistan, Say "Fuck Mohammad" and see what kind of response you would get. Do the same in Saudi Arabia, I bet it is the same intense response by the crowds you would get in Pakistan.

Haha, I'm with you there man :D

[ShaneK]

i dont believe in anything wit phobia or ism at da end. jus means fear or closed mind

[embers]

i dont believe in anything wit phobia or ism at da end. jus means fear or closed mind

Because the words 'professionalism', 'liberalism', and hell, even 'organism', totally fit into that statement.

[ShaneK]

there are always exceptions to every rule as you demonstrate so eloquantly

[The Dark Lord]

there are always exceptions to every rule as you demonstrate so eloquantly

rules don't have exceptions, that's why they are called rules

[ShaneK]

rules r made ta b broken

[The Dark Lord]

rules r made ta b broken

I don't think they are.

[Magus]

I don't think they are.
Really off-topic, guys. Should Islamophobia be acceptable?

[Sogeking]

Really off-topic, guys. Should Islamophobia be acceptable?

You can choose to be a close minded person so long as you don't force down and/or act on your belief on anyone else.

[embers]

Well, the whole discussion was really meaning to ask not if Islamophobia should be acceptable, but rather, if it is passively accepted in society today. I mean, slit-eyed jokes about Chinese people will be responded to with more seriousness than laughter than a joke about a Muslim bomber will. At least that's the case in Britain.

I was just wondering if people were noticing that Islamophobia was slowly creeping into the norm.

[ShaneK]

Islamophobia is unacceptable in any form

[embers]

Islamophobia is unacceptable in any form

In your personal views, but do you think it is, within society, being slowly let into the 'acceptable' category?

[ShaneK]

yea in society islamophobia is more acceptable, especially amongst the far right of the politics.

[The Dark Lord]

How would you define islamophobia?

[Charleigh]

How would you define islamophobia?

Isnt it when you are afraid of Islams and discriminate them or something along the lines of that?

[embers]

How would you define islamophobia?

As with any phobia, an irrational fear of Muslims, which I imagine would be brought about by (limited) personal experience and lack of general knowledge. But that in itself isn't the entire problem, the problem is the hate that comes about because of one being Islamophobic. (i.e. 'them pakis n ragheads wanna blow us up well get them the hell out of this country' kind of thing. - it's worth noting that Islamophobia and racism often, but not always, coincide.)

[The Dark Lord]

As with any phobia, an irrational fear of Muslims, which I imagine would be brought about by (limited) personal experience and lack of general knowledge. But that in itself isn't the entire problem, the problem is the hate that comes about because of one being Islamophobic. (i.e. 'them pakis n ragheads wanna blow us up well get them the hell out of this country' kind of thing. - it's worth noting that Islamophobia and racism often, but not always, coincide.)

The reason I'm asking is because too often people call you a racist for talking about immigration etc. The Prime Minister said last week that multiculturalism has failed, which is true. People who come to Britain should be able to speak English and have a sense of British history before they can integrate into our society.

[embers]

The reason I'm asking is because too often people call you a racist for talking about immigration etc. The Prime Minister said last week that multiculturalism has failed, which is true. People who come to Britain should be able to speak English and have a sense of British history before they can integrate into our society.

Ah, but what David Cameron did was a total mistake. His idea of multiculturalism is to leave different communities as isolated, on their own, so they don't affect each other. A quick Google of multiculturalism's definition says:

the doctrine that several different cultures (rather than one national culture) can coexist peacefully and equitably in a single country

...so Dave doesn't really have the right grasp on multiculturalism. It's not leaving racial groups to strive by themselves, but it's ensuring they can coexist peacefully with other racial groups.

I don't see multiculturalism as having 'failed completely', which is exactly what Cameron said. You say immigrants should learn English, and I agree completely. But it's not like every immigrant (or even most) can't speak English. They can. You have to be able to speak English to be able to migrate, surely.

What I disagree with is that Cameron is now going to cut off any support to, and not have any dealings with, extremist groups or groups that don't promote Britain's liberal values. I see this policy as vulnerable to abuse - any group or party wishing to publicise itself, and doesn't fit in with Cameron's wants, he can cut off any support/dealings with. Sure, this works fine with the bastards in Islam4UK and the BNP, but what about anything in between? Cameron can easily twist what he says are Britain's 'liberal values'.

And also, by isolating extremist groups and not dealing with them directly, we are prone to more hateful attacks: seeing as people in the Islam4UK won't be able to gain support politically, why not make the decision they are being forced into (other than disbanding), which is violent extremism?

[The Dark Lord]

Ah, but what David Cameron did was a total mistake. His idea of multiculturalism is to leave different communities as isolated, on their own, so they don't affect each other.


...so Dave doesn't really have the right grasp on multiculturalism. It's not leaving racial groups to strive by themselves, but it's ensuring they can coexist peacefully with other racial groups.


That's fine, but it doesn't always happen. Islam, like all other religions, is completely outdated and now pointless in our society. What Cameron should concentrate on is building not a "big society" but a society which is addresses the inequalities caused by religion. He was right to denounce multiculturalism. Call me a narrow minded xenophobe but decades of history and cultural should not be changed by a minority.

I don't see multiculturalism as having 'failed completely', which is exactly what Cameron said. You say immigrants should learn English, and I agree completely. But it's not like every immigrant (or even most) can't speak English. They can. You have to be able to speak English to be able to migrate, surely.


There is a massive difference between being able to speak basic English and being to speak English confidently and articularly, however if this was case, most British people would be considered immigrants due to their lack of understanding of the English language

What I disagree with is that Cameron is now going to cut off any support to, and not have any dealings with, extremist groups or groups that don't promote Britain's liberal values. I see this policy as vulnerable to abuse - any group or party wishing to publicise itself, and doesn't fit in with Cameron's wants, he can cut off any support/dealings with. Sure, this works fine with the bastards in Islam4UK and the BNP, but what about anything in between? Cameron can easily twist what he says are Britain's 'liberal values'.

I agree with most of this, but I reject the notion that Cameron is a liberal and there would also be a strong argument that the Labour Gov't's policies of control orders and errosion of civil liberties would contradict Britain's liberal values, which would agree with your belief that it would be abused. Cutting out extremist groups isn't the answer, this will lead to more extremism, give them a national platform which will make them look extremist and out of touch.

And also, by isolating extremist groups and not dealing with them directly, we are prone to more hateful attacks: seeing as people in the Islam4UK won't be able to gain support politically, why not make the decision they are being forced into (other than disbanding), which is violent extremism?

I agree, when Nick Griffin went on Question Time, he was made to look a complete tool. This should happen to other extremist leaders, humilate and belittle them on a national stage will highlight their extremist beliefs much better than ignoring them.

[Magus]

It's worth noting that Islamophobia and racism often, but not always, coincide.I know what you are saying this, but let me stress on this:

It's a shame, really.

Arabs and Persians and other Middle-Easterners are discriminated because they are often juxtaposed with Extremist Islam, unfortunately.

"Look, an Arab! He is going to blow us up!" kind of comments really enrages me.

Should we put the Blame on Islam? I don't think so. These things happens because of lack of common sense.

Arabs only makes up 30% of the Muslim population. And 40% of Arabs aren't even Muslims at all.

And what is most funny thing is, is that they(Westerners) can't distinguish between and Indian(especially when the guy wears a Turban(Sikh)) and a Lebanese.

I really feel sorry for those who fell victim of hate crimes; the crimes even weren't intended against them.

This is Islamophobia, people.

For the laughs.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_XeRnkgFEHn8/Sy71LTmsvTI/AAAAAAAAEc0/_cFF3fiYskc/s400/Islam_is_of_the_Devil_sign.png

[embers]

That's fine, but it doesn't always happen. Islam, like all other religions, is completely outdated and now pointless in our society. What Cameron should concentrate on is building not a "big society" but a society which is addresses the inequalities caused by religion. He was right to denounce multiculturalism. Call me a narrow minded xenophobe but decades of history and cultural should not be changed by a minority.

Islam may be like other religions, and I agree with you there, but that doesn't change the fact that Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Zoroastrians (if there's any left) etc exist. What would you rather, a society where others' views are tolerated, and despite cultural differences people can coexist as a society, or a society with constant racial tensions due to the ruling out of religion as 'outdated and pointless'?

I'm not saying decades of history and culture should be changed by a minority. But minorities shouldn't be completely neglected just in order to keep that same history, and that same culture, going.


There is a massive difference between being able to speak basic English and being to speak English confidently and articularly, however if this was case, most British people would be considered immigrants due to their lack of understanding of the English language

Put the blame on the education system. "Oh, I can't read me own writing!" <- makes me want to tear my hair out. Sure, perhaps immigration laws should be more strict (though it was hard enough getting me into this country), at least in terms of knowing English. But what ticks me off is the fact that lots of the people who claim immigrants come in not being able to speak English can hardly speak or write it themselves. They're the hooligans you see at far-right protests, and hell, they're the uneducated twats you see on the same level as Nick Griffin.

I agree with most of this, but I reject the notion that Cameron is a liberal

He isn't. I reject it too. He claims he is, though.

I agree, when Nick Griffin went on Question Time, he was made to look a complete tool. This should happen to other extremist leaders, humilate and belittle them on a national stage will highlight their extremist beliefs much better than ignoring them.

Thing is, it doesn't happen to other extremist groups. Instead, groups like the EDL get coverage on documentaries like 'Young, British and Angry' (or something like that), where people are led to actually believe that they aren't far-right, or they have good reason to protest. But I do love what Jeremy Paxman did on Newsnight, which was to ridicule Lennon, the leader of the EDL. (Link's in my blog post I think.)

Arabs and Persians and other Middle-Easterners are discriminated because they are often juxtaposed with Extremist Islam, unfortunately.

Islam originated in the Middle East. Makkah (Mecca to you English lads) is in the Middle East. The Iraq war, the 'war on [Muslim] terror' and such, is happening in the Middle East. Afghanistan to some counts as the Middle East. All people are fed about Islam (and the Middle East and Pakistan in general) is just violence and hatred for the west.

Hell, we're meant to hate Indians more than the west anyway :P

"Look, an Arab! He is going to blow us up!" kind of comments really enrages me.

And "Pakistan? So you didn't have a house? Oh, you did? Did a bomb ever go off outside your house? Does everyone there have a beard and a gun..." and so on enrages me. Especially since I make it clear I'm not a Muslim, I still get 'Oh don't blow me up' jokes when I make a pissed-off comment about someone. But everyone to their own ignorance, without it we wouldn't have half as many people correcting others.

Should we put the Blame on Islam? I don't think so. These things happens because of lack of common sense.

No, these things happen because of excessive faith and extreme misinterpretation. What people who propose Shariah because it was law at the time of the prophet, or for whatever similar reason, fail to realise is that what we see of the rules in the Prophet Muhammed's time does not fit into society's moral standards today. Similarly, in a thousand-odd years we will be considered barbarians, too, for more reasons than one. There is no reason to wish Shariah law upon another person.

The blame doesn't go to Islam itself, but rather, to the people who promote barbarianism from over a thousand years ago. It goes to the people who believe in bringing Islam's history into the present.

Arabs only makes up 30% of the Muslim population. And 40% of Arabs aren't even Muslims at all.

Does it matter?

And what is most funny thing is, is that they(Westerners) can't distinguish between and Indian(especially when the guy wears a Turban(Sikh)) and a Lebanese.

The worst was when I was thought to be Bulgarian... then when I said I was Pakistani, she said, "Isn't that all the same though?" I cringed.

image (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_XeRnkgFEHn8/Sy71LTmsvTI/AAAAAAAAEc0/_cFF3fiYskc/s400/Islam_is_of_the_Devil_sign.png)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_akLHpeO7qyA/TLyNN0VSlZI/AAAAAAAAC7c/E2Mq2jv1GQs/s1600/islam+religion+of+peace.jpg

meh...

[The Joker]

rules don't have exceptions, that's why they are called rules

Have you ever heard of the English language's grammar rules, or the grandfather rule?

I think the real indicator of it being completely acceptable in our society to me was when I noticed the Muslim kids at my old school make jokes about themselves being terrorists.

[KaelKaos]

Islamophobia should not be tolerated, if the world were the way it should be, all races and religions would be tolerated.

But it's not, of course.

The hate towards American and Westerners in general from the middle east is immense. Many radical groups declare Jihad and vow to kill. It's scary. We have never seen such hate directed at us before, so it's our natural reaction to hate back. I think what many people do is develop a fear of radical group such as Al-Qaeda, who base many of their philosophies on Islam, and in turn we become Islamophobic. I'm not saying it's right, I try real hard to steer clear of Muslim jokes, but at the same time I can see where the hatred is coming from. It's fear.

[embers]

The hate towards American and Westerners in general from the middle east is immense. Many radical groups declare Jihad and vow to kill. It's scary. We have never seen such hate directed at us before, so it's our natural reaction to hate back. I think what many people do is develop a fear of radical group such as Al-Qaeda, who base many of their philosophies on Islam, and in turn we become Islamophobic. I'm not saying it's right, I try real hard to steer clear of Muslim jokes, but at the same time I can see where the hatred is coming from. It's fear.

The fear is incredibly irrational. I mean, schools aren't even doing much to enlighten people on the subject, you see Islam portrayed in such a bad light in the media, and yet people wonder why teens develop fears and such about Islam. If the slightest bit of effort was put in, by the government, the schools, or just by people in general, this fear would hardly exist.

[nnnm]

Most people don't realize that Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are all very similar religions. It's like fried v. grilled chicken.

Also, Islam is very peaceful. The terrorists and suicide bombers are RADICAL muslims, not regular Muslims.

[KaelKaos]

Most people don't realize that Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are all very similar religions. It's like fried v. grilled chicken.

Also, Islam is very peaceful. The terrorists and suicide bombers are RADICAL muslims, not regular Muslims.

True, and what people also don't realize is that there are radical sects of other religions too. For example, the Westboro Baptist Church pickets funerals of soldiers KIA as well as posting hateful messages on signs. There's also the Jewish Defense League, who have also been accused of plotting terrorist attacks in the US. It's not just Islam that harbors radical groups, it's many other religions too.

[embers]

Also, Islam is very peaceful. The terrorists and suicide bombers are RADICAL muslims, not regular Muslims.

Define 'regular Muslims'. There are different sects of Islam, the most hated on being the Ahmadis. There is much more to Islam than what meets the eye, and a large percentage of Islamic terrorism is violence between those sects.

Sorry about that, just being nitpicky.

True, and what people also don't realize is that there are radical sects of other religions too. For example, the Westboro Baptist Church pickets funerals of soldiers KIA as well as posting hateful messages on signs. There's also the Jewish Defense League, who have also been accused of plotting terrorist attacks in the US. It's not just Islam that harbors radical groups, it's many other religions too.

Oh but it's contemporary issues that count, isn't it? I'm not going to hate on Christians for the Crusades, and the IRA hype in England has died down too. Islamic extremism doesn't look like it's nearing its end anytime soon.

[KaelKaos]

Oh but it's contemporary issues that count, isn't it? I'm not going to hate on Christians for the Crusades, and the IRA hype in England has died down too. Islamic extremism doesn't look like it's nearing its end anytime soon.

WBC and JDL are both "contemporary issues". Neither show any signs of backing down anytime soon, just like many Islamic extremists. I think a main reason why Islamophobia is becoming so common is that the extremist groups are "outdoing" (please excuse the ignorance the word outdoing brings with it..for lack of better diction) other radical groups...not to mention these past 30 years we have been heavily involved in Middle-Eastern affairs.

EDIT: I also think with the recent protests in numerous Muslim countries, many Americans have sided with the Muslim people in overthrowing the dictatorships. A step in the right direction for Islamophobia? I sure hope so

[Magus]

Define 'regular Muslims'. There are different sects of Islam, the most hated on being the Ahmadis. There is much more to Islam than what meets the eye, and a large percentage of Islamic terrorism is violence between those sects.I feel sorry for them. They are hated by other Muslim of different sect, as well. But its all thanks to their funny 'extra' believes.

I was once a Salafi Sunni, can you believe it? A Salafi? Me? Faris?

Salafi are the hotheaded and the most stubborn sect of Islam.
They condemn reformation and follow Islam word-by-word.
I also think with the recent protests in numerous Muslim countries, many Americans have sided with the Muslim people in overthrowing the dictatorships. A step in the right direction for Islamophobia? I sure hope soHave you seen Gaddafi's yesterday's speech? He said that Americans are dosing you people with hallucinogen and wants you to overthrow me, just like the Egyptians did to Mubarak and Tunis to Ben Ali.

This means hatred towards West. Which is a good news for the Critics of Islam.

[embers]

I feel sorry for them. They are hated by other Muslim of different sect, as well. But its all thanks to their funny 'extra' believes.

The funny beliefs aren't any excuse, if that's what you're implying.

Have you seen Gaddafi's yesterday's speech? He said that Americans are dosing you people with hallucinogen and wants you to overthrow me, just like the Egyptians did to Mubarak and Tunis to Ben Ali.

This means hatred towards West. Which is a good news for the Critics of Islam.

Surely nobody believes him? It's a ridiculous claim and it's not going to stop any protests. I doubt even the most radical Muslims would take that claim as credible.

[KaelKaos]

I feel sorry for them. They are hated by other Muslim of different sect, as well. But its all thanks to their funny 'extra' believes.

I was once a Salafi Sunni, can you believe it? A Salafi? Me? Faris?

Salafi are the hotheaded and the most stubborn sect of Islam.
They condemn reformation and follow Islam word-by-word.
Have you seen Gaddafi's yesterday's speech? He said that Americans are dosing you people with hallucinogen and wants you to overthrow me, just like the Egyptians did to Mubarak and Tunis to Ben Ali.

This means hatred towards West. Which is a good news for the Critics of Islam.

No, I have not seen Gaddafi's speech. But Gaddafi is easily one of the most hated men in Libya, and I hope people ignore his accusations.

[deadpie]

Not all Muslims are out to get you with bombs strapped to themselves. In other places like Uganda (LRA) and India there's Christians that go around raping people in villages and killing the husbands. So does that mean christianphobia or whatever it would be called should be called acceptable there? It's obvious not every Christian is going to rape and kill you.

As much as I think religion is violent and cruel, I'm not going as far to say you should fear every Muslim or every Christian because you walk by because that's just bizarre.

So yeah, I think islamophobia is dumb.

Edit: Holy shit, my grammar is bad.

[iangillan]

Someone in this thread said that Islam is a violent religion by nature.I'd love to hear his opinion about Christianity.We all remember 1995 and Genocide in Bosnia & Herzegovina,,genocide by Christians against muslims,and worst of all with full support of Church and U.N.
There is not killing several people, but genocide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide

And now we can talking about violence and religion.

[Sith Lord 13]

Someone in this thread said that Islam is a violent religion by nature.I'd love to hear his opinion about Christianity.We all remember 1995 and Genocide in Bosnia & Herzegovina,,genocide by Christians against muslims,and worst of all with full support of Church and U.N.
There is not killing several people, but genocide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide

And now we can talking about violence and religion.

What I find on that genocide points to it being based on ethnicity, not religion. Also, I find the UN condemning it and no mention of it in relation to the church so can we get some sources please?

[iangillan]

What I find on that genocide points to it being based on ethnicity, not religion. Also, I find the UN condemning it and no mention of it in relation to the church so can we get some sources please?

Yes,but ethnicity is on religion base in Bosnia.(not etnicity like people in western world think).The genocide committed by Orthodox Christians (Serbs),(in the name of the faith) with support of Dutch peace-keeping battalion of U.N. They were kept Muslims from escaping with pretense `you are safe with us`,until they reached the Serbs.Then Dutch soldiers just left UN base and leave unarmed Muslims and armed Serbs.

http://www.gendercide.org/case_srebrenica.html
Here you can see Serbs and Dutch soldiers together
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J34rrhKbgys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYiaX2Jxyag&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuvoRh18ubE&NR=1&feature=fvwp

And here now you can see role of church in Genocide,This video was recorded 1 day before Genocide.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84_LdFAA3c0&feature=related

There are also many other proofs,but hardly to find them in English language.

[embers]

Someone in this thread said that Islam is a violent religion by nature.I'd love to hear his opinion about Christianity.

You will find this interesting. (http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2010/04/drunk-with-blood-gods-killings-in-bible.html)

[iangillan]

Very Interesting.I never think about religion in this way.

[Sith Lord 13]

Yes,but ethnicity is on religion base in Bosnia.(not etnicity like people in western world think).The genocide committed by Orthodox Christians (Serbs),(in the name of the faith) with support of Dutch peace-keeping battalion of U.N. They were kept Muslims from escaping with pretense `you are safe with us`,until they reached the Serbs.Then Dutch soldiers just left UN base and leave unarmed Muslims and armed Serbs.

http://www.gendercide.org/case_srebrenica.html
Here you can see Serbs and Dutch soldiers together
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J34rrhKbgys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYiaX2Jxyag&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuvoRh18ubE&NR=1&feature=fvwp

And here now you can see role of church in Genocide,This video was recorded 1 day before Genocide.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84_LdFAA3c0&feature=related

There are also many other proofs,but hardly to find them in English language.

Again, the religion seems secondary to the race, an unfortunate coincidence. Also, we need english sources. (Or at least english transcriptions)

[iangillan]

Again, the religion seems secondary to the race, an unfortunate coincidence. Also, we need english sources. (Or at least english transcriptions)

If you want more,just type in google.
Or Ask me directly what you want to know,I`m Bosnian.
Facts are that religion is only reason,we all here are same people,South Slavic.

[Sith Lord 13]

If you want more,just type in google.
Or Ask me directly what you want to know,I`m Bosnian.
Facts are that religion is only reason,we all here are same people,South Slavic.

More on the church's role in the genocide is what I'm looking to get sources on. When I google, my results are about a monument to the massacre and that's about it.

[iangillan]

On this video you can see priest in religious services,just before committed genocide.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84_LdFAA3c0&feature=related
Sound you can hear here is religious services about war.

But I think that many documents are not translated on English,because some parts of the world would`nt accept facts about U.N. and Church.

[Magus]

Sound you can hear here is religious services about warVery Ironic my friend.

Here you are saying that some people from other religion are inciting and inflaming people to go for war?

Did you know that dissent that went in Pakistan and Afghanistan is thanks to the Mullahs, Imams and other Clerics efforts in filling people with messages of hatred against the westerners and Americans. Inciting them to wage wars against the "Kafirs"(infidels), as it is a Jihad, and Jihad is rewarded nicely in "heaven".

[iangillan]

Very Ironic my friend.

Here you are saying that some people from other religion are inciting and inflaming people to go for war?

Did you know that dissent that went in Pakistan and Afghanistan is thanks to the Mullahs, Imams and other Clerics efforts in filling people with messages of hatred against the westerners and Americans. Inciting them to wage wars against the "Kafirs"(infidels), as it is a Jihad, and Jihad is rewarded nicely in "heaven".

Yes,It is Ironic,but it is True.
War in Bosnia was strictly based on religious reasons.
Yes,I know for that kind of people,in Bosnia also have couple groups of people,wich working on inciting hatred,they are imported from Algeria,Iran,etc..
But that kind of people do not understand that Bosnia is other type of country,(not like Arab country`s). Bosnia is in Europe,pro-west oriented ,and only religion (Bosnian Muslims) is connection between Bosnia and Arab country.Of course that do not understand also many west-country`s.

[slappy]

Watch religulous, that movie talks about that

[bleedoutlove]

I have nothing against Muslims, or any religions. But what people like EDL are doing is using fear and prejudice that the media has implanted in many people's heads and using it to turn people against Muslims becaue of their own pathetic prejudices.
I respect their beliefs. But Muslim extremists do sometimes is try and force their beliefs on the general population, which I do not believe they should do. But the EDL twists the truth.
No one should judge anyone, but no one should try to force their beliefs on to others.