Rules update

[nick]

Are you seriously expecting everyone to reread all the rules to spot the differences. Common sense tells you that wont happen. Surely its not unreasonable to suggest you should just let us know what's changed?

[Origami]

Are you seriously expecting everyone to reread all the rules to spot the differences. Common sense tells you that wont happen. Surely its not unreasonable to suggest you should just let us know what's changed?

I completely agree.
Either a mass PM or temporary global announcement/ HQ sticky would suffice.

[Maverick]

Are you seriously expecting everyone to reread all the rules to spot the differences. Common sense tells you that wont happen. Surely its not unreasonable to suggest you should just let us know what's changed?
Yes you are expected to read them and be held accountable for them. The only requirement of membership here is to read and follow the rules. Its not much to ask.

[Quahog]

I don't think it's that hard to read a few paragraphs. But meh.

[Scarface]

Are you seriously expecting everyone to reread all the rules to spot the differences. Common sense tells you that wont happen. Surely its not unreasonable to suggest you should just let us know what's changed?

I personally don't see a problem in reading what's in the rules, it only takes a minute to read. the rules are there for you to understand.

[Origami]

Yes you are expected to read them and be held accountable for them. The only requirement of membership here is to read and follow the rules. Its not much to ask.

I personally don't see a problem in reading what's in the rules, it only takes a minute to read. the rules are there for you to understand.

Yes, read them. It's simple.
However, for members who've been here a while, ever evolving rules could become a headache whereas a notification of some form actually notifies members of the change and draws there attention to read it.

I won't lie; from the time I joined I only half knew the rules. I probably don't know shit now.

[nick]

Yes you are expected to read them and be held accountable for them. The only requirement of membership here is to read and follow the rules. Its not much to ask.
I have read them, its like a total rewrite. I dont find them to be very clear or well written as it happens. I wont have any personal problem complying. But you know that many people wont reread the whole bundle, so if there are any particular policy changes it would be clearer to announce them.

[Scarface]

Yes, read them. It's simple.
However, for members who've been here a while, ever evolving rules could become a headache whereas a notification of some form actually notifies members of the change and draws there attention to read it.

I won't lie; from the time I joined I only half knew the rules. I probably don't know shit now.

The rules haven't been updated for 4 years, they not only needed updating, they needed tweaking as you all have noticed our system has changed. So it doesn't take that long to look through them, that way you to familiarize or re-familiarize yourself with the new changes.

EDIT: if you have any questions about any statements specifically, I'd gladly clarify via PM as I clearly stated in the announcement.

[Origami]

The rules haven't been updated for 4 years, they not only needed updating, they needed tweaking as you all have noticed our system has changed. So it doesn't take that long to look through them, that way you to familiarize or re-familiarize yourself with the new changes.

EDIT: if you have any questions about any statements specifically, I'd gladly clarify via PM as I clearly stated in the announcement.

/facepalm.

Have they or have they not changed?

[ShatteredWings]

Nick, you've got to be kidding me. Yes, we expect you to read the rules.
Thats just not hard concept.

Yes they've been changed. Majorly. To include new rules, and revise old ones.

[Scarface]

/facepalm.

Have they or have they not changed?

Yes they have been updated with adding of the rules that we have been enforcing, but were never made note of.

[nick]

Nick, you've got to be kidding me. Yes, we expect you to read the rules.
Thats just not hard concept.

Yes they've been changed. Majorly. To include new rules, and revise old ones.
Kyle, you've got to be kidding me.

I have read them OK. I think a notification of any rule changes is clearer and more appropriate and would be more likely to get the message across.

Thats just not hard concept.

[Cloud]

Kyle, you've got to be kidding me.

I have read them OK. I think a notification of any rule changes is clearer and more appropriate and would be more likely to get the message across.

Thats just not hard concept.

You will get a notification
It will be a mod pming you with a warning when you break them, and itll be your own fault for not checking

[ShatteredWings]

And people aren't going to read the rules unless they're forced to.

If you aren't forced to re-read the rules, too many will plea ignorance to something, even if it was in a bright red announcement on top of every thread and forum.

And watch it. I'm in no mood to be bitched out for something that you've been here long enough to figure out on your own

[nick]

And watch it. I'm in no mood to be bitched out for something that you've been here long enough to figure out on your own
Are you threatening me?

What crime am I supposed to have committed. I think it would be clearer to list the changes.

Watch it???

[Scarface]

Are you threatening me?

What crime am I supposed to have committed. I think it would be clearer to list the changes.

Watch it???

You haven't committed any crime, but failing to read what I have posted in the announcement, that if you have any questions to PM me. The rules are there for you to understand and read, whether they're changed or not they are there for you to follow. There does not need to be a notification via PM as the announcement has been publicly noted. It was deemed that they were to be changed for the better of the site, not to as your wishes. It doesn't take that long to read, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to comprehend. Maybe instead of making this thread, you could have easily PM'd me and had this discussion.

[nick]

You haven't committed any crime, but failing to read what I have posted in the announcement, that if you have any questions to PM me. The rules are there for you to understand and read, whether they're changed or not they are there for you to follow. There does not need to be a notification via PM as the announcement has been publicly noted. It was deemed that they were to be changed for the better of the site, not to as your wishes. It doesn't take that long to read, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to comprehend. Maybe instead of making this thread, you could have easily PM'd me and had this discussion.
I'm disappointed by your negative tone and your refusal to address my point.

You are making this personal. I have already said that I have read the new rules, that I find them unclear and badly written, but wont have any problem complying. Its nothing to do with my wishes, I'm not saying for one moment that I disagree with anything in the rules, although the older policy on photos was much simpler, clearer and therefore easier to enforce.

My point is that if you want people to know what's changed its best and easiest to tell them. What's wrong with that?

[scuba steve]

In all fairness, i've never read the rules and don't really intend to. Your own initiative should suffice to know what would be enough to get kicked off the site and how to avoid it.

[Scarface]

I'm disappointed by your negative tone and your refusal to address my point.

You are making this personal. I have already said that I have read the new rules, that I find them unclear and badly written, but wont have any problem complying. Its nothing to do with my wishes, I'm not saying for one moment that I disagree with anything in the rules, although the older policy on photos was much simpler, clearer and therefore easier to enforce.

My point is that if you want people to know what's changed its best and easiest to tell them. What's wrong with that?

My replies have simply pointed out your faults. http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1162600#post1162600 the announcement did not suffice your wishes?

[scuba steve]

My replies have simply pointed out your faults. http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1162600#post1162600 the announcement did not suffice your wishes?

Stole ma word fool, even though your grammer whilst using is questionable!! :P

[nick]

My replies have simply pointed out your faults. http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1162600#post1162600 the announcement did not suffice your wishes?
My faults?

[Scarface]

My faults?

#1. You obviously questioned the rules being changed and the approach used. I clearly stated in the announcement thread:
If you have any questions about any of the guidelines or changes, please do not hesitate to PM me.

Did this issue require a thread when I blatantly said to contact me if any questions needed answers?

It takes less time to read and understand the rules, than to make a thread about it asking why it was done why it was. It would have saved you a lot of time if you would have heeded what I had said. The staff do things for a reason.

[nick]

#1. You obviously questioned the rules being changed and the approach used.
Where? Link? Reference?

Completely unjustified.

All I have been trying to suggest was that a note of what had actually changed would be a clearer way of getting the message across. I'm not questioning the new rules, just how best to communicate the changes.

[Scarface]

Unjustified? http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1162600#post1162600 that's the link where I stated to contact me if any questions were to come up. That's all I'm saying. The announcement is good enough for people to look at the rules, they changed majorly so instead of highlighting every change or different word changed it's better to give everyone the same link, with all of the changes in front of them and any questions to be directed at me.

[Ender]

I'm sorry, but I'm agreeing with nick. I'm familiar with the old rules, so pointing out the specific amendments would be a better idea in my opinion...

[Scarface]

I'm sorry, but I'm agreeing with nick. I'm familiar with the old rules, so pointing out the specific amendments would be a better idea in my opinion...

How are we supposed to do that when a lot of the aspects of the previous rules we changed in some shape or form? Go through and highlight everything? That way everyone see's bold face what they need to look at and disregard the rules already stated in the past? Everything was changed, from the wording of the rules, down to the nitty gritty of posting and placement. Everything that has been enforced up until this point is now made visible by everyone so there shall be no excuse to not know. It was deemed a better way instead of sending a mass PM sharing the exact same thing that the announcement is already showing.

[nick]

Well the announcement said:

Recently the staff have made changes to the site rules; please look at this link for all changed made make sure you get acquainted with these changes as they are what you're expected to follow.

So I expected to follow the link and see details of the changes made, but that wasnt what the link showed. My whole point is that following the link didnt give what it said. It didnt say what had changed.

[Scarface]

"Recently the staff have made changes to the site rules"

This means changes. They were changed completely, it was a much better way of presenting them instead of trying to point it all out when virtually everything was changed. That idea sounds fruitless. To send a PM, with the new site rules when there's already an announcement, questions are welcomed and encouraged to PM a staff member with questions, specifically me in this scenario. It would take alot more time to highlight seeing as how everything has changed. So what exactly would sending a PM to people with these changes do exactly again? Or am I missing everyone's point again?

[nick]

"Recently the staff have made changes to the site rules"

This means changes. They were changed completely, it was a much better way of presenting them instead of trying to point it all out when virtually everything was changed. That idea sounds fruitless. To send a PM, with the new site rules when there's already an announcement, questions are welcomed and encouraged to PM a staff member with questions, specifically me in this scenario. It would take alot more time to highlight seeing as how everything has changed. So what exactly would sending a PM to people with these changes do exactly again? Or am I missing everyone's point again?
That's OK, I dont have a problem with that, but the announcement should have said something along the lines "All members should note that the site rules have been rewritten, please familiarise yourself with the new rules." But it didnt, it said it would tell us what had changed,

Anyway, I think we've discussed this and would request that you now lock the thread.

[Scarface]

But I stated in the thread that you could contact me, I apologize for my poor wording, but for future reference, instead of assuming and making a thread, please heed the words asked in the thread. Thanks

OP Request Lock

:locked2: