Christianity - Monotheistic?

[Perseus]

First off, this not a debate whether Christianity is true or not. For this, we are going to assume it is the right religion and all that fun stuff.

I was laying in my bed last night relaxin', maxin', bein' all cool, and it occurred to me that Christians worship both God and Jesus. The Bible refers to them as two entities, i.e. Jesus is the son of God. If Jesus is the son of God, then that means he is separate from God, therefore two beings being worshiped because people bless things in the name of Jesus and God and pray to them. You also have the Holy Ghost, which I know nothing about in my sixteen years of being taught Christianity. I honestly have no clue what the Holy Ghost does, but whatever. One thing, though, is that the Bible says that all three of those things, the Holy Trinity, are the same thing, which makes no sense because Jesus and God are separate beings. God did things while Jesus was alive on Earth, such as, "As soon as Jesus Christ was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and landing on him. And a voice from heaven said, 'This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased People.'" - Matthew 3:16-17 Christians thank God for Jesus, therefore Christians refer to them as two entities.

What does VT think?

[Continuum]

It's the Holy Trinity: Three entities, but still counted as one. And also, there's the Hypostatic Union of Jesus. Jesus is a full-fledged God and a full-fledged Human at the same time, so both of them are counted as one, still.

[Perseus]

It's the Holy Trinity: Three entities, but still counted as one.

Entity - A thing with distinct and independent existence

With that definition, they are not entities, but the Bible makes them out as entities, especially with the Bible verse I put up in my OP. The Holy Trinity cannot be one when it wants to be. Sometimes it's one thing, and sometimes it is not.

[Continuum]

Entity - A thing with distinct and independent existence

With that definition, they are not entities, but the Bible makes them out as entities, especially with the Bible verse I put up in my OP. The Holy Trinity cannot be one when it wants to be. Sometimes it's one thing, and sometimes it is not.

In the standard Catholic dogma, the trinity is still one, even though its figures are distinguished from one another (as stated by the Shield of Trinity below). In this case, yes. Jesus and the Father may be separated into two, but still they need each other, along with the Holy Spirit to be the Triune God.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Shield-Trinity-Scutum-Fidei-English.svg (Copypasta from wikipedia. :P)

[Rainstorm]

In the standard Catholic dogma, the trinity is still one, even though its figures are distinguished from one another (as stated by the Shield of Trinity below). In this case, yes. Jesus and the Father may be separated into two, but still they need each other, along with the Holy Spirit to be the Triune God.

Image (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Shield-Trinity-Scutum-Fidei-English.svg) (Copypasta from wikipedia. :P)

However, that is going by the interpretation of the Christians and it's leaders. Meanwhile, others, like myself, will interpret it differently.


I'd have to say that are two seperate beings.

[Perseus]

In the standard Catholic dogma, the trinity is still one, even though its figures are distinguished from one another (as stated by the Shield of Trinity below). In this case, yes. Jesus and the Father may be separated into two, but still they need each other, along with the Holy Spirit to be the Triune God.

Image (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Shield-Trinity-Scutum-Fidei-English.svg) (Copypasta from wikipedia. :P)

That triangle honestly makes no sense. :P God is the father, who is the son, but the son is not the father. That completely contradicts if a=b, and b=c, then c=a.

[Sith Lord 13]

Finally, 14.5 years of catholic schooling is put to use.

Take the three leaf clover. It has three leaves, yet it is still one plant. Each leaf moves independently of the others, yet it is still whole only with its brothers. So is god like that. The father and the son and the holy spirit each move independently of each other and yet are still the one god.

As to what the holy spirit supposedly does, it essentially inspires and impacts people's lives in a positive way. Courage, wisdom, etc are considered gifts of the holy spirit.

[Perseus]

Finally, 14.5 years of catholic schooling is put to use.

Take the three leaf clover. It has three leaves, yet it is still one plant. Each leaf moves independently of the others, yet it is still whole only with its brothers. So is god like that. The father and the son and the holy spirit each move independently of each other and yet are still the one god.

As to what the holy spirit supposedly does, it essentially inspires and impacts people's lives in a positive way. Courage, wisdom, etc are considered gifts of the holy spirit.

I don't know. I've just never understood the Holy Trinity ever. It just doesn't make sense to me. I know one can just say, "hurr, it's God. God can do whatever he wants, and you can't understand his power's 'cause he's God, hurr." It just doesn't make sense for it to be taught God is not Jesus, but Jesus is God. It should done in a different way that makes sense. I dunno know. It's just not fathomable to me.

[Sith Lord 13]

I don't know. I've just never understood the Holy Trinity ever. It just doesn't make sense to me. I know one can just say, "hurr, it's God. God can do whatever he wants, and you can't understand his power's 'cause he's God, hurr." It just doesn't make sense for it to be taught God is not Jesus, but Jesus is God. It should done in a different way that makes sense. I dunno know. It's just not fathomable to me.

A square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square. Think of it that way.

[Death]

A square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square. Think of it that way.

And yet some Christians refer to them as seperate entities, and say that they were father and son in the literal sense. Why would they do that?

[Perseus]

A square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square. Think of it that way.

Using mathematical means doesn't really help, though. God was present when Jesus was, too. Therefore, you can't exactly use that analogy, even though it's right.

[The Joker]

I guess I never truly understood it either, but maybe it's because their is a few different forms. Take water, for example. There is water in the solid state, the liquid state, and the gas state. All different forms, but they are all truly water.

[Sith Lord 13]

And yet some Christians refer to them as seperate entities, and say that they were father and son in the literal sense. Why would they do that?

Aside from some form of Christianity which is not monotheistic, I don't know. If you can link me to a page describing these beliefs I might be able to better explain it.

Using mathematical means doesn't really help, though. God was present when Jesus was, too. Therefore, you can't exactly use that analogy, even though it's right.

Go back to the clover analogy. Between the two, I think it covers both the points.

I guess I never truly understood it either, but maybe it's because their is a few different forms. Take water, for example. There is water in the solid state, the liquid state, and the gas state. All different forms, but they are all truly water.

I like this analogy. :)

[Perseus]

Aside from some form of Christianity which is not monotheistic, I don't know. If you can link me to a page describing these beliefs I might be able to better explain it.



Go back to the clover analogy. Between the two, I think it covers both the points.



I like this analogy. :)

Meh, I give up trying to understand.

[Magus]

I like this analogy. :)
The problem with the analogy is that the same quantity of water does not exist in all three states at the same time. One part needs to be cooled, another frozen, and the last near boiled.

You have seen Jesus praying to God to have bread to feed the people. In this we see, that Jesus was separate from the Father.

Oh noes! I am getting confused, too. This is too confusing.

[Sith Lord 13]

The problem with the analogy is that the same quantity of water does not exist in all three states at the same time. One part needs to be cooled, another frozen, and the last near boiled.

You have seen Jesus praying to God to have bread to feed the people. In this we see, that Jesus was separate from the Father.

Oh noes! I am getting confused, too. This is too confusing.
It does not matter whether it was the head, the hand or the foot that did it, it was still the same person. It the case you reference, the right hand told the left hand to do it.

[Sage]

First off, this not a debate whether Christianity is true or not. For this, we are going to assume it is the right religion and all that fun stuff.

I'm going to go hypothetically pray for the answer and I'll get back to you shortly.

[Sith Lord 13]

I'm going to go hypothetically pray for the answer and I'll get back to you shortly.

What's gained here Sage? If nothing else this is an exercise in logic as to how to resolve a paradox.

[enzenzz]

that is why its called the mystery of the holy trinity, you're not supposed to understand it, you're not supposed to question it. you are just to believe. that is what faith is. :P

[Sith Lord 13]

that is why its called the mystery of the holy trinity, you're not supposed to understand it, you're not supposed to question it. you are just to believe. that is what faith is. :P

Now that is pointless. Faith is fine and good for saying I'm going to believe what's been passed down, but there should be some way to get a good grasp on the theories within a religion, and the religions should be coherent within itself. If it can't find a way to be coherent within itself, even if it does take some thinly stretched explanations, then there are major issues.

[Perseus]

that is why its called the mystery of the holy trinity, you're not supposed to understand it, you're not supposed to question it. you are just to believe. that is what faith is. :P

I question lots of things. Religion is no different. I don't understand the Holy Trinity, so I tried to find a way to grasp it, even though, as Sith said, it's paradoxical.

[Sith Lord 13]

I question lots of things. Religion is no different. I don't understand the Holy Trinity, so I tried to find a way to grasp it, even though, as Sith said, it's paradoxical.

The thing to remember about a paradox is it's a SEEMING contradiction. There's often a way to resolve it.

[ShatteredWings]

My understanding of the 'holy trinity' consent was "3 pieces of the same pie"
I don't know how accurate that is,but it's a thought that hasn't quite been brought up here yet.

[Severus Snape]

I think christianity is poorly disguised paganism.