Huckleberry Finn Censored

[deadpie]

If you didn't know, schools are making censored versions of Huckleberry Finn by replacing the word "Nigger" in the book with "Slave". The word is uses 217 times in the book.

Now don't you think if Mark Twain didn't have a reason for the word, then he wouldn't of used it so many times? Also, he's fucking dead. Editing text of a book he wrote himself is just wrong. He can't do anything about it and his work that has been called a classic is now being edited out.

Censorship is growing faster than you think.

Now do you think that the word slave would be even more offensive than nigger? Do you think it's right for people to edit text out of a book?

Apparently it's supposed to make sure racism doesn't continue and school and make sure the children don't start becoming sick bastard assholes.

What the fuck? Schools are doing whatever they can to make sure that while they grow up in schools, they grow up as complete pussies with no sense of what the real world is going to give them. You can't even play fucking dodge ball in schools anymore. I swear the goal that these schools really are looking for is to make a soft and closed thought education.

Look at Texas and how they've changed history and science text books around. They're editing fucking history books and putting lies in them. They're changing fucking history that they're supposed to be teaching. You know they won't even mention Thomas Jefferson in the school text books now? Your kids will grow up not knowing who he is, even though he plays a very fucking important role in this country.

I know that all sounds off topic, but it really isn't. It's all about how schools are trying to make a watered down version for us and our future kids. They're rewriting textbooks and novels just to make sure our 'innocence' isn't hurt.

So my question for you VT, as in this debate is do you agree with the extreme conservative ideas of censorship to keep teenagers 'safe' or do you think it's bullshit? Will this really make us any safer?

This isn't just about the kids, it's about censorship in general. When you've pissed all over a dead authors grave and his work, that crosses the line. It really makes my blood boil to think people have the right to do shit like this.

[Perseus]

I heard about this yesterday, and I found it just stupid. I read Huck Finn last semester and the word "nigger" is used for obvious reasons. Y'know, people used "nigger" back then, and Mark Twain was trying to make a point with that who entire novel. But now it won't be made because people get butthurt over a word that has no meaning in this day and age. Slave =/= nigger. I find that just retarded to fucking expurgate that novel. All meaning will be lost through editing. Censorship is fucking stupid, especially since the novel is read in high school.

[PJay]

This is totally ridiculous, smacks of 1984 thought police, and worryingly also of what goes on in countries like China.

Its like the victorians vandalising ancient statues by chipping off penises and so on because they disapproved.

Its vandalism.

[Amnesiac]

It's the product of the high levels of social conservatism in the US. Disgusting. This is a classic work of art which shouldn't be butchered and pissed on just because some pussified adults can't handle their precious little angels hearing a word that's used at every school with an African-American population. Books should NEVER be censored unless they contain material that actually presents a threat to the public, like a guide on how to build a bomb.

Also, I'm going to have to learn Texas' new glorified version of American history. Sucks for me. Good thing I have a copy of A People's History of the United States.

[Vonn]

But why Huckleberry Finn? There are millions of books out there with worse words (as if we haven't heard them all). What's the point, when all those other books are just as easily accessible?

Are they trying to raise a generation of pure angels and goody-goody saints? Ha.

(Dodge ball is my favorite game. I fucking hate the school board for banning it.)

[Sage]

That doesn't even make sense. Not all niggers are slaves.

[Amnesiac]

But why Huckleberry Finn? There are millions of books out there with worse words (as if we haven't heard them all). What's the point, when all those other books are just as easily accessible?

Huckleberry Finn is a book taught in schools.

The one thing I love about my school district is that they willingly make us read books banned in other districts, and we analyze the use of the word "nigger" in 1930s writing, like in To Kill a Mockingbird.

[The Ninja]

Damn progressivism. "We the People" my ass.

[Amnesiac]

Damn progressivism. "We the People" my ass.

This is conservatism, not progressivism.

[Sage]

Damn progressivism. "We the People" my ass.

I don't know a single self-proclaimed "progressive" that is in favor of censorship.

[The Ninja]

sorry I had my definitions mixed up.

[Amnesiac]

sorry I had my definitions mixed up.

Heh, okay. In addition, what does "We the People" have to do with this?

[The Ninja]

Heh, okay. In addition, what does "We the People" have to do with this?

I'm saying it's unconstitutional. Why the fuck do people always question every aspect of my post and overall my opinion.

[Sage]

I'm saying it's unconstitutional. Why the fuck do people always question every aspect of my post and overall my opinion.

This is the debate board. If something you say is factually incorrect, you will be corrected. Anyway, what specific part of the constitution does this violate?

[Amnesiac]

Anyway, what specific part of the constitution does this violate?

Yeah, technically the publisher censoring the word out of the book is entirely up to them. Since they own the publishing rights, they can do whatever they want.

I'm pretty sure most people will be able to buy an uncensored version of the book anyway.

[Peace God]

That doesn't even make sense. Not all niggers are slaves.
Yeah, they're really fucking up the author's intentions with the word. I don't even think "slave" was a common terminology for the average black man back then.

[huginnmuninn]

if someone writes a book about a certain era then the terminology of said era should be used it gives a better description of what the people of that era were like

[The Ninja]

Ok I think students should have right to learn the real history, not the history that the government or the school approves. Do you agree?

[Amnesiac]

Ok I think students should have right to learn the real history, not the history that the government or the school approves. Do you agree?

Yes. I believe every student should read The Communist Manifesto and A People's History of the United States, as well as the classic dystopias and other important political writings. History isn't about the left- or right-wings, it's what it is.

If you want to change the past because it doesn't fit with your world-view, you don't deserve to be involved in education.

[Sogeking]

I'm going to say what I said a while ago in another thread:

Political Correctness is ruining schools.If you dont learn from history you are doomed to repeat it.If history is altered to such an extent that it doesnt seem as bad or in worse cases, never actually happened, people are gone think its ok to do it.

[Sage]

Ok I think students should have right to learn the real history, not the history that the government or the school approves. Do you agree?

This has nothing to do with the government or schools. It's the publisher's choice. Deal with it.

[The Ninja]

This has nothing to do with the government or schools. It's the publisher's choice. Deal with it.

It's the publishers choice to edit history by editing the pages in which it's written on? How fucking absurd.

[Sage]

It's the publishers choice to edit history by editing the pages in which it's written on? How fucking absurd.

Yeah, it's so absurd that publishers can edit the material they own the licenses to. That's just absolutely bonkers.

[The Ninja]

Yeah, it's so absurd that publishers can edit the material they own the licenses to. That's just absolutely bonkers.

Ok new point of view. The only reason the arrogant publishers would change the material in the first place is to make money. They are more than likely going to get the money from schools or the government who wants to "cushion" what the real world actually is. Do you agree that our education should be changed so that we don't have to be "damaged" by learning about all the horrible things that happened during WW1, WW2, or any other horrible event that occurred in history? I certainly don't. This is why I think there needs to be someone competent to record history as it happened. The problem with this idea is that no school who paid to "cushion" history is going to allow a student to use that book instead of their "user friendly" book. Whats happening to our society is so horrible that I can't even think of a word to define it. (though I'm sure someone smart will point out that its some big word that basically means the government controls everything and ends in ism.)

[Sage]

Do you agree that our education should be changed so that we don't have to be "damaged" by learning about all the horrible things that happened during WW1, WW2, or any other horrible event that occurred in history?

Okay kiddo, I didn't want to go on a tirade tonight, but I think a lot of people need to consider something.

Shut the fuck up.

I'm not being insulting here. I'm not trying to provoke you into a rage. You, and everyone else getting worked up over this needs to take a moment aside to stop saying the things you're saying, relax, and think things over. A publisher choosing to censor one provocative word in a book is nothing new. It happens all the time, whether you like it or not, and it is well within their legal rights to do so, whether you like it or not. You can speculate as to why they did it, but in the end, it doesn't matter. You know why?

Because education doesn't start and end at the doors to your school. That's right. Your teachers and school board, shockingly enough, don't have a monopoly on your education unless you allow them to. It's a pretty bloody crazy idea- that you can actually learn things outside the school system. It's pretty bloody crazy, y'know, that moment when you're sitting in class, and you realize the things being fed to you are bullshit. But you know what? You don't have to put up with it!

Here are your options, kiddo.

1) Do something about this. Challenge teachers. If you should find this censored Huckleberry Finn being taught in your classroom, I want you to raise your hand and ask your teacher why they took the word nigger out. That's right. I want you to say the word nigger regardless of whoever else is in the room. Why? Because that's what was in the book. If you care so much about the truth, stop relying on the school system to spoon feed it to you.

Or!

2) Be a whiny little bitch and cry out against the big bad censor guys and their Orwellian schemes to brainwash your comrades while not really accomplishing anything.

You know what road you're going down, kiddo? The second one.

So congratulations. You're smart enough to realize that stuff being told to you in school is a steaming pile of shit. Consequently, that also means you're smart enough to go out and find something of greater intellectual substance on your own.

[The Ninja]

At this point I'm going to say thank-you. I just can't help feeling sorry for the arrogant twits I must call my class mates and friends.

[goat]

OK, lets let the publisher present his side.

NEW YORK: A new edition of Adventures of Huckleberry Finn is missing something: the word ''nigger''.

In its place, 219 times throughout the book, is the word ''slave'', a substitution that was made by NewSouth Books, an Alabama publisher that plans to release the edition next month.

Alan Gribben, who teaches English at Auburn University in Montgomery, approached the publisher with the idea in July. Dr Gribben said he had been teaching Mark Twain for decades and always hesitated before reading aloud the racial epithet, which is used liberally throughout the book, a reflection of social attitudes in the mid-19th century.


''I found myself right out of graduate school at Berkeley not wanting to pronounce that word when I was teaching either Huckleberry Finn or Tom Sawyer,'' he said. ''And I don't think I'm alone.''

Dr Gribben, who combined Huckleberry Finn with Tom Sawyer in a single volume and also supplied an introduction, said he worried that Huckleberry Finn had fallen off reading lists and wanted to offer an edition that is not for scholars but for younger people and general readers.

''I'm by no means sanitising Mark Twain,'' Dr Gribben said. ''The sharp social critiques are in there. The humour is intact. I just had the idea to get us away from obsessing about this one word, and just let the stories stand alone.'' (The book also substitutes ''Indian'' for ''injun''.)

Since the publisher discussed plans for the book this week with Publishers Weekly, it has been ''assaulted'' with negative emails and phone calls, Suzanne La Rosa, the co-founder and publisher of NewSouth Books, said.

''We didn't undertake this lightly,'' Ms La Rosa said. ''If our publication fosters good discussion about how language affects learning and certainly the nature of censorship, then difficult as it is likely to be, it's a good thing.''

The news set off a storm of online commentary, scolding the publisher for ''censorship'' and ''political correctness'', or simply for the perceived sin of altering the words of a literary icon.

An initial print run of 7500 copies has been planned for the revised Huckleberry Finn. A digital edition could go on sale as early as next week.

Ms La Rosa said the publisher had advance orders from Barnes & Noble, Borders and other book chains, and she expected more orders from schools and libraries.

[Sage]

OK, lets let the publisher present his side.

What are you trying to argue? It's not a big deal. The publisher is free to print whatever version of the book they want. If you want to read the original version, you still can. It isn't banned. You can go out to a book store or a library and obtain it. What's the big fuss?

Have all the moral disagreements you like, but at the end of the day, nothing is preventing you from obtaining the original version.

[goat]

What are you trying to argue? It's not a big deal. The publisher is free to print whatever version of the book they want. If you want to read the original version, you still can. It isn't banned. You can go out to a book store or a library and obtain it. What's the big fuss?

Have all the moral disagreements you like, but at the end of the day, nothing is preventing you from obtaining the original version.

I'm not arguing. I agree with you.
Actually the original version is in the public domain. Copyrights are for the life of a human author or 75 years. Here it is:

The Adventures of
Huckleberry Finn
Mark Twain (http://www.planetpdf.com/planetpdf/pdfs/free_ebooks/The_Adventures_of_Huckleberry_Finn_NT.pdf)

[steve1234]

The more that the word 'nigger' is censored, the word will become even more of a 'taboo' and idiots will use it more to be offensive.

I learnt about To Kill A Mockingbird in school, and that had the word nigger in it many times, and we openly discussed this word in class, so people actually learnt what this word meant and why it is offensive. I believe that can help stop people using the word offensively.

I just know that words like that will be censored in books in the UK soon, as we always seem to follow the US like puppy-dogs :mad:

[PJay]

I'm not arguing. I agree with you.
Actually the original version is in the public domain. Copyrights are for the life of a human author or 75 years. Here it is:

The Adventures of
Huckleberry Finn
Mark Twain (http://www.planetpdf.com/planetpdf/pdfs/free_ebooks/The_Adventures_of_Huckleberry_Finn_NT.pdf)

Interesting ... going to have to try that from school via the filterered internet connection. If its filtered I will be 'raising my hand' for sure.

Next up, parental controls on the Kindle.

[Peace God]

The more that the word 'nigger' is censored, the word will become even more of a 'taboo' and idiots will use it more to be offensive.
Absolutely true. It's astonishing that more people haven't realized this yet.

[Fact]

If you didn't know, schools are making censored versions of Huckleberry Finn by replacing the word "Nigger" in the book with "Slave". The word is uses 217 times in the book.

Now don't you think if Mark Twain didn't have a reason for the word, then he wouldn't of used it so many times? Also, he's fucking dead. Editing text of a book he wrote himself is just wrong. He can't do anything about it and his work that has been called a classic is now being edited out.

Censorship is growing faster than you think.

Now do you think that the word slave would be even more offensive than nigger? Do you think it's right for people to edit text out of a book?

Apparently it's supposed to make sure racism doesn't continue and school and make sure the children don't start becoming sick bastard assholes.



That doesn't even make sense. Not all niggers are slaves.

I don't know what's worse. Being called a 'nigger' because you're black or being referred to as a 'slave' because you're black. Why alter it? Seriously, it's just going too far when you start editing school text to 'protect' children. If they really wanted to do that, why couldn't they just choose another piece of literature to study?

Children/teens are going to come across horrible shit in their lives one way or another. Personally I think it's best they're educated on this rather than hidden from it, because it will only make circumstances more difficult for them in adult life if they've been shielded from truths. Of course, there is a line where teaching children about the real world turns into unnecessary explicit content, but the word 'nigger' isn't about to have a lasting effect. People of this generation and younger will still call other people 'nigger' whether it's in Huck Finn or not.

[trooneh]

The more that the word 'nigger' is censored, the word will become even more of a 'taboo' and idiots will use it more to be offensive.

I learnt about To Kill A Mockingbird in school, and that had the word nigger in it many times, and we openly discussed this word in class, so people actually learnt what this word meant and why it is offensive. I believe that can help stop people using the word offensively.

My town had us read the uncensored version of the book (both, actually), and we also had a conversation about the word and its usage both historically and currently.

[Amnesiac]

Absolutely true. It's astonishing that more people haven't realized this yet.

Same thing with sex and other societal taboos. Social conservatives feel the need to censor the real world to protect their children, which is actually doing the opposite of what it's intended to do. Teens have sex partly because they're told how illegal it is and not to.

Social conservatism is a failed ideology.

[Sith Lord 13]

It's the product of the high levels of social conservatism in the US. Disgusting. This is a classic work of art which shouldn't be butchered and pissed on just because some pussified adults can't handle their precious little angels hearing a word that's used at every school with an African-American population. Books should NEVER be censored unless they contain material that actually presents a threat to the public, like a guide on how to build a bomb.

Also, I'm going to have to learn Texas' new glorified version of American history. Sucks for me. Good thing I have a copy of A People's History of the United States.

This is conservatism, not progressivism.

I don't know a single self-proclaimed "progressive" that is in favor of censorship.

This has nothing to do with the government or schools. It's the publisher's choice. Deal with it.

Same thing with sex and other societal taboos. Social conservatives feel the need to censor the real world to protect their children, which is actually doing the opposite of what it's intended to do. Teens have sex partly because they're told how illegal it is and not to.

Social conservatism is a failed ideology.

This isn't conservatism, it's progressivism. It's not considered "censoring" it's considered "political correctness".

[mrmcdonaldduck]

Protect Kids my ass. As if any 10 year old doesn't know what a nigger is? As if they don't swear. Kids aren't angels, and slave is worse then niger, niger means Black in latin.

I'm not saying they don't have the right, i'm just saying you aren't protecting anyone.

[Amnesiac]

This isn't conservatism, it's progressivism. It's not considered "censoring" it's considered "political correctness".

It really depends on your definition of those two terms. Yes, anti-racism is a progressive value, but I consider it conservative to censor the word, since "family values" and "protecting the children" are both conservative values. This issue was raised by parents who don't want their kids seeing the word, not by people who consider it racist.

Actually, looking deeper, it's a mix of both conservative and progressive values. Parents complain about Huckleberry Finn's vulgar language because it's both vulgar and racist.

[The Ninja]

Well I'm glad I was at least half right :P

[jason123]

I think that is very dumb

[The Joker]

Well, to protect kids by censoring them and in fact hindering them from being knowledgeable about the darkness of society, Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain has been edited to take out the word "nigger" and replace it with "slave".

Well, to make up for all the replacements of that word, nigger nigger nigger nigger nigger, nigger nigger nigger nigger, nigger.

Seriously, when I typed that, no one died. I didn't lost any sort of innocence. When I first learned of that word, it didn't make me a racist. It made me understand something about society and the way blacks were treated back then. Fuck protecting the kids, I learned this word when I was 5 and it didn't make a difference.

If we read this book in class, I'll make a promise to you VT. Every time I see the word slave, I'll say nigger.

[Peace God]

If we read this book in class, I'll make a promise to you VT. Every time I see the word slave, I'll say nigger.
Please do Matt. Make me proud. :proud:

[Sage]

Every time I see the word slave, I'll say nigger.

The pyramids were built by niggers. Nigger-labor is a very cost-effective alternative to paid labor, and has been used in many countries throughout history, until the ownership of niggers was banned a century or two ago.

[Continuum]

The pyramids were built by niggers. Nigger-labor is a very cost-effective alternative to paid labor, and has been used in many countries throughout history, until the ownership of niggers was banned a century or two ago.

Not until the Chinese took over. They were even more cost effective, and good with their hands too.

[Church]

I think its dumb to censor any book, it takes away the meaning of it. I read Huckleberry Finn last semester, if it didnt have nigger in it it probably wouldn't of had as much meaning to me.

[Amnesiac]

In 2007, Ibrahim Mohamed, a North Richland Hills, Texas, student, requested the word “nigger” be shortened to “the N-word”. According to him, the teacher responded by asking him, “Does it offend you? It hurts, doesn’t it?”

I think all teachers should be like this guy.

[The Joker]

The pyramids were built by niggers. Nigger-labor is a very cost-effective alternative to paid labor, and has been used in many countries throughout history, until the ownership of niggers was banned a century or two ago.

Niggers built the pyramids! Niggers built the Parthenon! Niggers built America! Niggers, this is your song...thank you niggers!

MjL0011ORb4

[Sith Lord 13]

It really depends on your definition of those two terms. Yes, anti-racism is a progressive value, but I consider it conservative to censor the word, since "family values" and "protecting the children" are both conservative values. This issue was raised by parents who don't want their kids seeing the word, not by people who consider it racist.

Actually, looking deeper, it's a mix of both conservative and progressive values. Parents complain about Huckleberry Finn's vulgar language because it's both vulgar and racist.

Both sides of the aisle try to protect the children, they just differ in what they try to protect them from. Conservatives try to protect them from new ideas, liberals from anything politically incorrect. I stand by my prior statement, though I do feel it could easily draw supporters from across the aisle.

[Amnesiac]

Both sides of the aisle try to protect the children, they just differ in what they try to protect them from. Conservatives try to protect them from new ideas, liberals from anything politically incorrect. I stand by my prior statement, though I do feel it could easily draw supporters from across the aisle.

And that's one specific reason why I don't like the Democrats. They call themselves socially liberal yet they support all these ridiculous "protect the children" programs.

[ShyGuyInChicago]

And that's one specific reason why I don't like the Democrats. They call themselves socially liberal yet they support all these ridiculous "protect the children" programs.

What types of programs?

Anyway, I feel that it is wrong to censor the book. I feel that censoring it will remove the message and possibly is the same as denying that such prejudices ever existed, and is judging a 150-odd year old book by modern values. The book should be judged by the time it was written and public. You know I think the best way to end such controversies would be for such "banned" book to only be checked out to students who have parental consent.

[Amnesiac]

What types of programs?

Parents Music Resource Center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parents_Music_Resource_Center)

Communications Decency Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Decency_Act)

Digital Millennium Copyright Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act)

Broadcast Decency Enforcement Act of 2005 (http://www.congress.org/congressorg/bill.xc?billnum=S.193&congress=109)

[ShyGuyInChicago]

Parents Music Resource Center (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parents_Music_Resource_Center)

Communications Decency Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Decency_Act)

Digital Millennium Copyright Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act)

Broadcast Decency Enforcement Act of 2005 (http://www.congress.org/congressorg/bill.xc?billnum=S.193&congress=109)

What does copyright have to do with social conservatism?

[Amnesiac]

What does copyright have to do with social conservatism?

The DMCA is one of the main aspects of the current debate on piracy and fair use. I and many others believe it makes it ridiculously easy for copyright owners to file complaints when, in many cases, their complaints aren't actually valid.

But this is way off-topic anyway.