Most important battle(s) of all time

[trooneh]

What would you rate as the single most important battle in the history of warfare? This could be anything from the Roman era onwards to the Modern era. I'm going to list several battles that I both thought of and found through some internet searching.

The battles I think could contend include (in no specific order): Stalingrad; Waterloo; Hastings; Yorktown; Salamis; Vienna; Tours; Marathon.

My reasoning behind the inclusion of each battle goes as follows:

Stalingrad was the turning point of the Eastern Front in World War II. With the defeat of the German 6th Army, the Soviets decisively shifted all momentum onto their side. If Germany had won at Stalingrad, it is much more likely that the western half of the Soviet Union would have fallen, and would have made invading Western Europe much more difficult (with the huge increase in the men and materiel available for combat.)

Waterloo was the final defeat of Napoleon, and marked the end of the Napoleonic Wars. It was a decisive military defeat that removed Napoleon from power and stabilized Western Europe at least for a time. It also prevented the French from being able to dominate the continental part of Europe.

Hastings was the beginning of the modern British Empire, with William I coming over and defeating Harold II. History would never be the same with the creation of the British Empire, I don't think I need say more. :P

Yorktown was the battle that solidified American independence, and well, history would never be the same in this case as well.

Salamis was the turning point in the war between the Greeks and the Persians, with the Greeks securing the Peloponnesus and therefore blocking the conquest of Greece as a whole.

Vienna was the high water mark of the Ottoman Empire and marked the turning point in the war between the Habsburgs and the Ottomans. The Ottoman Empire was trying to advance into Central Europe, but was denied in a decisive defeat at this battle. It also featured the largest cavalry charge ever.

Tours was the defeat by Charles Martel of the Umayyads. Some have claimed that this battle saved Christianity in Europe, though this is open to debate. However, it definitely solidified Frankish power in Europe, which shaped events for centuries to come.

Marathon ended the first Persian invasion of Greece, and was significant in that it proved to the rest of Greece that the Persians could indeed be defeated, and therefore can be counted here along with Salamis, in my opinion.

If some of the things I said sound like they're from Wikipedia, it's because they are. Some of the battles I know less about than the other. I'm also tired, hence the very brief reasons for each. :P

[Amnesiac]

Battle of the Coral Sea (World War II) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Coral_Sea) — arguably the first battle the Japanese lost in the Pacific Theater. Presented the Allies with opportunities to push back against their rapid domination of the South Pacific and damaged Japanese naval equipment that indirectly aided the US in the Battle of Midway. Some could say this is the battle that prevented the Japanese from invading Australia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_Japanese_invasion_of_Australia_during_World_War_II).

This isn't the most important battle in the history of warfare, but I like it :P

[trooneh]

True, though if you want Pacific battles that are fun, I love the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot/Battle of the Philippine Sea, for the way the USN totally owned the IJN. But anyways... :P

[Amnesiac]

True, though if you want Pacific battles that are fun, I love the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot/Battle of the Philippine Sea, for the way the USN totally owned the IJN. But anyways... :P

The Pacific Theater of WWII is pretty much the only part of military history that really interests me.

How could we forget the Battle of Midway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway) in the first place? The most important battle in the Pacific Campaign. I don't know if it's important enough to be ranked with Yorktown and Stalingrad, but it's still a hell of an important battle.

[trooneh]

The Pacific Theater of WWII is pretty much the only part of military history that really interests me.

How could we forget the Battle of Midway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway) in the first place? The most important battle in the Pacific Campaign. I don't know if it's important enough to be ranked with Yorktown and Stalingrad, but it's still a hell of an important battle.
Midway isn't quite on the level of those I listed. It's one step below, I think. Same with things like Agincourt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Agincourt). Also, World War II military as a whole really interests me. There's a reason the Stalingrad part was longer than every other battle. :P

[Amnesiac]

Midway isn't quite on the level of those I listed. It's one step below, I think. Same with things like Agincourt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Agincourt). Also, World War II military as a whole really interests me. There's a reason the Stalingrad part was longer than every other battle. :P

I know, World War II is by far the most interesting historical event... ever. I was so lucky I got to do a gigantic project on the Pacific Theater last year for my English class. It was badass. I got to rebuild the HMAS Sydney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_Sydney_(1934)) in a virtual world :P

I still need to start reading Mein Kampf. Hitler, of course, was the one who started it all.

[trooneh]

I know, World War II is by far the most interesting historical event... ever. I was so lucky I got to do a gigantic project on the Pacific Theater last year for my English class. It was badass. I got to rebuild the HMAS Sydney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_Sydney_(1934)) in a virtual world :P

I still need to start reading Mein Kampf. Hitler, of course, was the one who started it all.

I have no real desire to read Mein Kampf, honestly. I'm not sure why. For a better psychological perspective, though, I think good books to read would be Nuremberg Diary by Gilbert, and Inside the Third Reich by Speer. Both are extremely interesting reads. This is getting off topic though, so back to battles! :P

[Amnesiac]

I have no real desire to read Mein Kampf, honestly. I'm not sure why. For a better psychological perspective, though, I think good books to read would be Nuremberg Diary by Gilbert, and Inside the Third Reich by Speer. Both are extremely interesting reads. This is getting off topic though, so back to battles! :P

Interesting. However, I'm reading Mein Kampf first because it's the original book, straight from Hitler's dark and twisted mind.

But yeah, back to the battles. I'm not very knowledgeable of the great battles of human history, so I'll see what the rest of VT has to offer :rolleyes:

[Kahn]

Interesting. However, I'm reading Mein Kampf first because it's the original book, straight from Hitler's dark and twisted mind.

But yeah, back to the battles. I'm not very knowledgeable of the great battles of human history, so I'll see what the rest of VT has to offer :rolleyes:

Mein Kampf wasn't that great, really. Rather disappointing from my perspective.

And what about Guadacanal? OR AT LEAST VERDUN!?

[trooneh]

Mein Kampf wasn't that great, really. Rather dissapointig from my perspective.


That's why you should read the books I suggested, as well, Adam. :P Do itttttttttttttt.

[Amnesiac]

Mein Kampf wasn't that great, really. Rather dissapointig from my perspective.

Well, I'll see for myself when I start reading it. :rolleyes:

I don't think you can put "Hitler" and "uninteresting" in the same sentence.

[trooneh]

Well, I'll see for myself when I start reading it. :rolleyes:

I don't think you can put "Hitler" and "uninteresting" in the same sentence.


I think you just did. Sorry. XD

Also, I think you could, as in: Hitler's choice in music was uninteresting to his entourage (if you read Inside the Third Reich you'll know what I mean!)

[Amnesiac]

I think you just did. Sorry. XD

Also, I think you could, as in: Hitler's choice in music was uninteresting to his entourage (if you read Inside the Third Reich you'll know what I mean!)

Okay, I stand (or sit) corrected. :P

On with the battles! The Battle of Gettysburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gettysburg) was important, the turning point of the American Civil War. We could be living in a very different world if the North hadn't stopped the Confederate invasion.

[trooneh]

Okay, I stand (or sit) corrected. :P

On with the battles! The Battle of Gettysburg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gettysburg) was important, the turning point of the American Civil War. We could be living in a very different world if the North hadn't stopped the Confederate invasion.

Gettysburg as well as Antietam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Antietam) both deserve inclusion in the discussion I think. So too could Cannae (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cannae) for the tactical innovations displayed there. As well as Verdun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Verdun) for the importance it had in the First World War (happy Adam? :P)

[Amnesiac]

Gettysburg as well as Antietam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Antietam) both deserve inclusion in the discussion I think. So too could Cannae (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cannae) for the tactical innovations displayed there. As well as Verdun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Verdun) for the importance it had in the First World War (happy Adam? :P)

Indeed, all four of these battle are significant. Not much more to say about them, really.

[Kahn]

Yes I am.

Also, add the Battle of Marne (1914) because that is where the German advance was ultimately stopped and where trench warfare literally ensued for years.

[trooneh]

I won't add anything to my initial post, I don't think. :P However, the Marne was the creation of trench warfare basically, yes. :P

[Perseus]

The Battle of the Bulge during '44 was pretty important since it was Hitler's last offensive and if he were to win that, all the Allies work would have been in vain. The Allies would have been pushed out of Holland/wherever they were for it. The European front would have changed.

If I remember correctly from my World War II class I just had, the Battle of Midway is quite important since it changed the battle for the Japanese since that was their first major lost.

[Grid]

D-Day
Stalingrad

[Azunite]

Well I'd say Waterloo. If England had lost to Napoleon we would speak french in London.

Well it had no effect to lands beyond Europe but Fall of Consantinople was an important event. It triggered fall of feudalism ( use of cannons) and was the beggining of Early Modern Europe Age and it triggered Renaissance.

Battle of Manzikert: Turks enter Anatolia, Byzantines are one step away from being over.Addition to the things said above,
Cannae: Hannibal FTW
Carrhae: Halted the Roman expansion in the Middle East.
Vienna: Yeah wish Ottomans waited for several more months to bolster their ranks .
Trafalgar: Same result in Waterloo.
Gallipoli: If England and France had won in Gallipoli, they would rule out the Ottomans from WW1, ( and probably there wouldn't be a Turkish War of Indepenence )deliver supplies to Russia and the war woul end much earlier.
Battle for England: England stalled German advance until Americans came.

I have no idea about battle of Midway, I hate sea battles :P

Oh by the way, the MOST important battle is the Battle of Pelennor Fields.

[trooneh]

Another battle that could be considered would be Zama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Zama), which led to the fall of Carthage.

[Sogeking]

Battle of Kursk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kursk)

Who can forget the biggest Tank battle in History


http://civilianmilitaryintelligencegroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/battle-of-kursk_wa45.jpg

Tanks FTW!!!!!! :D

[trooneh]

Kursk was a huge tank battle, but by then I think the Eastern Front had already been decided. :P

[Sogeking]

It was the last major offense by Germany, besides Battle of the Bulge

[trooneh]

True, but unlike in previous offensives they only made it on one Army front, and they were already drained of manpower and equipment.

[Sage]

The battle royale I had to endure with millions upon millions of other sperm cells back in 1992.

[Azunite]

The battle royale I had to endure with millions upon millions of other sperm cells back in 1992.

You are God, Sage.

[green]

um for me it would be the entire fight between britian and the IRA. It seems to be a turning point in the fact that people have a right to defend what is theirs. I mean britian had no buisness being there so the IRA (freedom fighters not terrorists) stood and fought.

[Iron Man]

The Battle of Endor? Lol jk. On a serious note, I would have to say D-Day: The Battle of Normandy. It is self explanatory what would happen if the United States hadn`t sucessfully invaded Nazi-controlled France and later Europe.

[darkwoon]

mmm. I'd have a hard time deciding between:

Battle of Yarmouk (636) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Yarmouk): A decisive victory of the Muslim forces against the Byzantine Empire, allowing them free hands to conquer Syria, Armenia and opening them the way to North Africa.

The Battle of Moscow (1941) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Moscow): The failure of the Axis to break the resolution and military resistance of the Soviet Union in late 1941/early 42 showed that the German strategy on the Eastern Front was short-sighted and lacked alternatives.

The Battle of Valmy (1792) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Valmy): Where the Prussian Army, then seen as an elite troop, failed to break the French Revolutionary Army. The French Revolution would have probably collapsed if it had lost that battle, and Napoleon or the 1848 revolutions would probably not have happened.

Waterloo and Stalingrad I didn't include because although significant by their symbolic value, their outcome was of little strategical importance.

Maybe I'd list the battles of Crécy (1346 - the French knighthood is crushed by English longbowmen, putting the supremacy of knights on the battlefield into question), Tannenberg (1914 - Germany puts an end to the Russian offensive on the Eastern Front) and Hastings (1066).

The Battle of Endor? Lol jk. On a serious note, I would have to say D-Day: The Battle of Normandy. It is self explanatory what would happen if the United States hadn`t sucessfully invaded Nazi-controlled France and later Europe.
Allies, not the United States alone - and it is not so obvious what the outcome would have been. The war would have likely been longer, and the Soviets would have advanced further west than they did, but it is highly unlikely that the Axis could have won the war anyway.

[Trevoooor]

In my opinion, it has to be the Revolutionary War. Without it, we may still be under British Rule today.

[Perseus]

That reminds me (The Battle of Moscow) - The Battle of Stalingrad. Russia could have been done for it they wouldn't have deafened their ground.

[green]

Oh the espionage war that was conducted during the cold war. It revolutionized warfare. It's also a bad thing because when America gave the Taliban weapons to fight the communists in afghanistan, they left the Taliban with the weapons they are using to kill Americans and Australians today

[The Dark Lord]

um for me it would be the entire fight between britian and the IRA. It seems to be a turning point in the fact that people have a right to defend what is theirs. I mean britian had no buisness being there so the IRA (freedom fighters not terrorists) stood and fought.

The British are perfectly entitled to defend the Commonwealth and the United Kingdom and they did so successfully, the IRA are terrorists and failed terrorists at that.

[embers]

Oh the espionage war that was conducted during the cold war. It revolutionized warfare. It's also a bad thing because when America gave the Taliban weapons to fight the communists in afghanistan, they left the Taliban with the weapons they are using to kill Americans and Australians today

That.


And Gallipoli, simply because I loved the film.

[trooneh]

mmm. I'd have a hard time deciding between:

Battle of Yarmouk (636) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Yarmouk): A decisive victory of the Muslim forces against the Byzantine Empire, allowing them free hands to conquer Syria, Armenia and opening them the way to North Africa.

The Battle of Moscow (1941) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Moscow): The failure of the Axis to break the resolution and military resistance of the Soviet Union in late 1941/early 42 showed that the German strategy on the Eastern Front was short-sighted and lacked alternatives.

The Battle of Valmy (1792) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Valmy): Where the Prussian Army, then seen as an elite troop, failed to break the French Revolutionary Army. The French Revolution would have probably collapsed if it had lost that battle, and Napoleon or the 1848 revolutions would probably not have happened.

Waterloo and Stalingrad I didn't include because although significant by their symbolic value, their outcome was of little strategical importance.

Maybe I'd list the battles of Crécy (1346 - the French knighthood is crushed by English longbowmen, putting the supremacy of knights on the battlefield into question), Tannenberg (1914 - Germany puts an end to the Russian offensive on the Eastern Front) and Hastings (1066).


Allies, not the United States alone - and it is not so obvious what the outcome would have been. The war would have likely been longer, and the Soviets would have advanced further west than they did, but it is highly unlikely that the Axis could have won the war anyway.


While Crécy is similar to Agincourt, Agincourt was the end of the supremacy of knights on the battlefield. However, I challenge your proposition that Moscow was more important than Stalingrad. Stalingrad made it impossible for the Germans to ever defeat the Soviets. Moscow did not have that same result.

Also, I don't think that the Soviets would have overrun the entirety of Europe had the invasion in Normandy never happened. First of all, all the forces on the Channel would have been available to fight in the East, and secondly, the casualties eventually might have gotten to high for Stalin to keep pushing, and therefore a peace treaty would've been possible. Before you say that would break the treaty that none of the Allies sought a separate peace, at Tehran, it was also said that there would be an invasion in France on the Channel coast in May-June, 1944.

[Sith Lord 13]

The British are perfectly entitled to defend the Commonwealth and the United Kingdom and they did so successfully, the IRA are terrorists and failed terrorists at that.

People have the right to protest, and overthrow, unjust and unfair governance.

[The Dark Lord]

People have the right to protest, and overthrow, unjust and unfair governance.

I agree, expect that British rule over Ireland was neither unjust nor unfair.

[Tristin.]

TDL has a good point, britain's rule over ireland goes back to a time when the irish actualy liked being under british rule, due to religion, ireland became split and they the troubles with britain and the IRA came into effect, if i remember correctaly that is :P

[Bluesman]

I'm going to go a bit out of the ordinary here and say the most important battle was the political battles during the cold war. If war wasn't avoided, we might not be alive today becuase we would've likely faced a nuclear holocaust.

[Sith Lord 13]

I agree, expect that British rule over Ireland was neither unjust nor unfair.

It is unjust to deny an entire segment of population who no longer desire to be under your rule the right to choose their own form of governance.

[The Dark Lord]

It is unjust to deny an entire segment of population who no longer desire to be under your rule the right to choose their own form of governance.

We never denied Ireland it's own government. If Ireland wanted total independence and one united Ireland, then they would have got it. Britain wouldn't stand in the way if a majority wanted independence

[Bluesman]

We never denied Ireland it's own government. If Ireland wanted total independence and one united Ireland, then they would have got it. Britain wouldn't stand in the way if a majority wanted independence

I realize Britain is probably the closest ally that the U.S. has today, but the British sure didn't let the US have total independence when they wanted it... why shouldve Ireland been any different??

[trooneh]

I realize Britain is probably the closest ally that the U.S. has today, but the British sure didn't let the US have total independence when they wanted it... why shouldve Ireland been any different??

Different eras, and international opinion would've played a role with Ireland.

[The Dark Lord]

I realize Britain is probably the closest ally that the U.S. has today, but the British sure didn't let the US have total independence when they wanted it... why shouldve Ireland been any different??

America won independence in 1780's, Ireland wanted independence in 1920's, big difference.

[Azunite]

I realize Britain is probably the closest ally that the U.S. has today, but the British sure didn't let the US have total independence when they wanted it... why shouldve Ireland been any different??

You forgot Saudi Arabia

[The Dark Lord]

I realize Britain is probably the closest ally that the U.S. has today, but the British sure didn't let the US have total independence when they wanted it... why shouldve Ireland been any different??

You forgot Saudi Arabia

Or in Sarah Palin's case, North Korea

[UnknownError]

The Battle Of Hogwarts. ^_^
That was a big one.

[Xerxes]

I believe an important battle was the battle of Adrianople (378 CE). It was a turning point in military tactics, showing that heavy cavalry was a must, and the Goth victory signified to the Roman empire that the goths were no small threat. It was really the first contributing event to the fall of the western roman empire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Adrianople

[goat]

I vote for Midway. Do any of you WWII buffs know if the way the movie showed Americans confirmed they had broken the the Japanese code(making a false, in the clear report that Midway's evaps were broken) was really how they figured the Japanese were panning to attacking Midway.

[trooneh]

I vote for Midway. Do any of you WWII buffs know if the way the movie showed Americans confirmed they had broken the the Japanese code(making a false, in the clear report that Midway's evaps were broken) was really how they figured the Japanese were panning to attacking Midway.

Wikipedia has the following:
The plan was handicapped by faulty Japanese assumptions of American reaction and poor initial dispositions.[12] Most significantly, American codebreakers were able to determine the date and location of the attack, enabling the forewarned U.S. Navy to set up an ambush of its own.

about that. :P

[CMEBACH]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFA-rOls8YA most bitchen battle ever atleast.

[Severus Snape]

Actium, 31 BCE

[gingeylover14]

i cant pick a specific battle or even a war but i have to say all battles fought due to genicide are the most important no person should die because of where there from there religion or race humanity deserves to be charished and although there will always be racism/sexism/ect. no person should have to die because their diffrent from someone elese because if we were all the same our wrld would be a crazy boring place