Drones

[Iceman]

Drones are increasingly being used mainly in Afghanistan through Pakistan. Nearly every day there seems to be a drone strike, yet every time all they list them as are "insurgents". Now Pakistan claims that all they are doing is killing innocent civilians, while the U.S. claims they are insurgents. Is the U.S. doing more harm then good? Should drones continue to be used?

[Sage]

http://www.technovelgy.com/graphics/content08/droid-army.jpg

What do you mean by drone? I'm not too keen on military jargon.

[Iceman]

Image (http://www.technovelgy.com/graphics/content08/droid-army.jpg)

What do you mean by drone? I'm not too keen on military jargon.

Oh sorry I was going to specify but I guess I forgot by the end of the post:P

Unmanned aerial vehicles that are armmed with missiles, mainly Hellfire missiles

[Cloud]

Image (http://www.technovelgy.com/graphics/content08/droid-army.jpg)

What do you mean by drone? I'm not too keen on military jargon.

im guessing UAV(unmanned aerial vehicles) such as predator drones?
http://andrew1769.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/predator-drone.jpg
i think there brilliant
fight a battle while your hundreds of miles away
whats there to not like?

[Iceman]

Well some say the break the International Humanitarian Law because it kills civilians. Also they are upsetting Pakistan people which may destabilize the region, they kill people that we need for interrogation, and

[Cloud]

Well some say the break the International Humanitarian Law because it kills civilians. Also they are upsetting Pakistan people which may destabilize the region, they kill people that we need for interrogation, and

they also survey the ground
giving feedback of enemy locations for snatch and grab teams to move in knowing exactly where to go and where they will get shot from

it keeps your soldiers alive
why are you complaining?

[Iceman]

Im complaining specifically about armed drones.

[deadpie]

they kill people that we need for interrogation, and

That's you implying that in the army people actually interrogate instead of just bursting down the door and put bullets in heads.


it keeps your soldiers alive
why are you complaining?

Fucking this.

[Cloud]

Im complaining specifically about armed drones.

why exactly?
because they save your soldiers being on the front line taking fire and risking loss of life

drones are used in most ops, including snatching insurgents for interogation
and id pray to fucking god if i had a jeep full of enemies on the way to kill me that the drone escorting me and my team had weapons

[Iceman]

it keeps your soldiers alive
why are you complaining?

Because its ignorant. Its killing innocent people for the sake of our "soldiers" who signed up for the military anyways. I would not like it if someone came in and killed me from above, even though I did nothing to these people.

[Cloud]

Because its ignorant. Its killing innocent people for the sake of our "soldiers" who signed up for the military anyways. I would not like it if someone came in and killed me from above, even though I did nothing to these people.
oh but youd be fine with dieing after a squad of troops runs into your town starts shooting up the place and you get hit by a stray round because atleast they had the decency to do it in person?

[Iceman]

I am saying atleast that doesn't break the IHL which America has agreed to follow. Plus if they are shooting they would be shooting at terrorists. If there are that many terrorists in that town I would not be living there.

[deadpie]

Because its ignorant. Its killing innocent people for the sake of our "soldiers" who signed up for the military anyways. I would not like it if someone came in and killed me from above, even though I did nothing to these people.

Well either way, someone's going to die on either side of the battlefield. Got it?
Yeah, would you feel the same if someone we're fighting was killing innocent people on our side for the sake their military?

[Cloud]

I am saying atleast that doesn't break the IHL which America has agreed to follow. Plus if they are shooting they would be shooting at terrorists. If there are that many terrorists in that town I would not be living there.

oh really?
but what if you dont know there terrorists
and what if you dont have a choice on moving

its alright
if it does happen ill make sure to write
"died in crossfire, was flattered that the troops had the decency to come and kill a civilian in person" on the tombstone for you :)

[Iceman]

Well either way, someone's going to die on either side of the battlefield. Got it?
Yeah, would you feel the same if someone we're fighting was killing innocent people on our side for the sake their military?

Either way someones going to die? False, no one has to die

Clarify your second point please.

[Iceman]

oh really?
but what if you dont know there terrorists
and what if you dont have a choice on moving

its alright
if it does happen ill make sure to write
"died in crossfire, was flattered that the troops had the decency to come and kill a civilian in person" on the tombstone for you :)

Thats a lot of what ifs. These people have the choice of moving but they don't have to because there are no terrorists there. So we wouldn't have to go shooting up the village in the first place.

[Cloud]

Either way someones going to die? False, no one has to die

Clarify your second point please.

yes they do
if you dont shoot them theyll shoot yuo
its what its like in the battlefield
if theres a threat
you dont wait around for them to pull the gun

alright them
if you hate drones do you hate bomber pilots
who flew over vietnam dropping napalm on villages
with kids in?
or is that fine cos atleast the dude was up there in the winged beast

[deadpie]

Either way someones going to die? False, no one has to die

Clarify your second point please.

Well, people have to die if you're having a war. I think what you mean is war isn't necessary, which it usually isn't.

You really think that people just find someone that's shooting at them and they ask them questions before doing anything to them?

How many times does it have to be said - the drones would help troops from risking their lives.

If you're against drones you should be against guns too. You should be against violence overall.

[Iceman]

I guess I hate the bomber pilots too. Most people don't feel to great after killing kids so that pilot most likely regrets what he did.

If it was a battlefield and no civilians around of course the terrorist would get shot. Thats the thing of war people will die but it doesn't have to be inhumane and the IHL tries to protect that

And no I am not against violence. What they are doing is inhumane. That doesn't mean I should be against violence or guns. There is no link there

[deadpie]

And no I am not against violence. What they are doing is inhumane. That doesn't mean I should be against violence or guns. There is no link there

HOW is there no link between guns and drones? Oh, drone isn't something you hold to kill someone. But in the end they are both tools to kill people.

So you're saying you only have respect for people who go on the battlefield in combat with guns ready to die? That's pretty much pro-death.

If you're against one thing that's made to kill someone, you should be against all things that are made to kill someone.

[Cloud]

I guess I hate the bomber pilots too. Most people don't feel to great after killing kids so that pilot most likely regrets what he did.

If it was a battlefield and no civilians around of course the terrorist would get shot. Thats the thing of war people will die but it doesn't have to be inhumane and the IHL tries to protect that

And no I am not against violence. What they are doing is inhumane. That doesn't mean I should be against violence or guns. There is no link there

so some guy in a crowd pulls out a ak47, points it at the head of a soldier
soldiers buddy sees
hes not gonna wait for the screaming crowd to fuck off hes gonna take a shot to save his mate
and if his shots catch a civilian but take out the guy about to shoot his mates hes not gonna care aslong as his mate didnt take a round to the face

if you say they have the oppurtunity to move then they best had leave the country

[Iceman]

They dont neeed to leave the country. We need to leave the country. They are living normal lives until this thing in the sky comes along and ruins it. You would not be to happy if that happened to you. There are no terrorist around there community. That is why we need to leave them alone.

I am against one tool of death becaue it kills civilians and is inhumane. If you would like to tell me why I have to be against all other tools of death feel free, but I am not against all. I am clearly against these drones because they kill civilians that breaks the IHL, and the civilians never now its coming.

The crowd scenario: That soldier would still feel bad because it was an innocent person. You are trying to say that no one has feelings.

[deadpie]

I am against one tool of death becaue it kills civilians and is inhumane. If you would like to tell me why I have to be against all other tools of death feel free, but I am not against all. I am clearly against these drones because they kill civilians that breaks the IHL, and the civilians never now its coming.

Snipers. They kill people and the victim doesn't know it's coming most of the time. You should be against them too. Guns kill civilians too. Fucking shovels can kill people. Anything can kill a person. So what really defines the weapon as inhumane? There's nothing humane about an object in the first place.



The crowd scenario: That soldier would still feel bad because it was an innocent person. You are trying to say that no one has feelings.

You want the soldier to feel bad for bombing them? How about the soldier not have to bomb the people and have a drone do it instead?

War is violence (obviously) and that means there's going to be allot of unnecessary deaths. But that's just something that happens when you're at war. You can't really know who's the terrorist and who's the civilian. The civilian could be hiding a gun behind their back at any point in time.

[Cloud]

They dont neeed to leave the country. We need to leave the country. They are living normal lives until this thing in the sky comes along and ruins it. You would not be to happy if that happened to you. There are no terrorist around there community. That is why we need to leave them alone.
well clearly there are
or they wouldnt send a drone to blow the fuck out of it
and we would leave the country
but there are clearly still threats there
read the news kid youll see the loss if life your sustaining
and realise how foolish your being debating against a things thats stopping those reports being so much more frequent

I am against one tool of death becaue it kills civilians and is inhumane. If you would like to tell me why I have to be against all other tools of death feel free, but I am not against all. I am clearly against these drones because they kill civilians that breaks the IHL, and the civilians never now its coming.
and a gun isnt inhumane
where it sends searing hot metal through you
you dont die straight away from that unless the guys an amazingly good shot

hellfire? shit goes boom, shrapnel flies tears you to pieces, might look gory but youd die alot sooner

and i see a quicker less painful death as more humane


The crowd scenario: That soldier would still feel bad because it was an innocent person. You are trying to say that no one has feelings.
i stil think hed feel worse that he didnt take the shot and watched his mate fly off in a body bag

[Iceman]

Ok first anything can kill someone. But this is something that can be stopped. Snipers kill bad people unless it is just some crazy person. This is a United States drone. They are killing civilians and you are apparently for it. So if I am pro death you sir are too.
And if you want a drone to bomb INNOCENT civilians that is wrong. There is violence in war, but these drones are not at war. There is nothing fighting these drones back. That makes it not a war.

What news provide me an example. I do read the news trust me. We are recieving bad intellegence which leads to these drone strikes. That kills civilians. There are terrorist over there but not in the region they are in. Also a gun kills you quick. So you think killing civilians, although there is something we can do about it, is humane?

[Cloud]

Snipers kill bad people unless it is just some crazy person.

ever heard of friendly fire?
we had a bad case of that where a sniper and his spotter saw some of their own men in a village, they werent told they were gonna be there
all they saw was weapons and tagged as threat
they only realised they were friendly after one got sniped and it was being screamed over the radios

[Fiction]

The job of the people in the military, are to protect their fellow military personnel and there country.
If drones allow them to do this, then they are going to use them, and I see no problem with it.
Of course it's terrible for them to kill civiliams, and it should be avoided at all cost, but it happens.
You also have to think about the families of the soldiers. They don't want to find out that there family member is dead do they? Especially if the death could have been prevented.

[deadpie]

Ok first anything can kill someone. But this is something that can be stopped. Snipers kill bad people unless it is just some crazy person.

"Crazy person"? What are you even saying at this point? A sniper can be stopped from killing someone by confirmation on their radio. Same with a drone, they can be programmed to stop. And define "Bad people", because in war, there is no such thing as good and bad people. People are killing other people and both sides think the other one is bad.



This is a United States drone. They are killing civilians and you are apparently for it. So if I am pro death you sir are too.

Who cares? You're for killing people with putting soldiers on the line. I'm for having people killed without having soldiers on the line.

Actually, I'm not even for war at all. But when it comes down to war debates, you have to be logic about what would happen in the attacks and what would work better for your side.


And if you want a drone to bomb INNOCENT civilians that is wrong. There is violence in war, but these drones are not at war. There is nothing fighting these drones back. That makes it not a war.

And if you want a troop to kill innocent civilians that is wrong too. Both are wrong or neither are wrong.

[Korashk]

socko, you seem to think that drones just randomly kill people. I'm pretty sure this isn't the case.

[Sage]

socko, you seem to think that drones just randomly kill people.

http://www.echoesofenoch.com/Terminator%20army.jpg

You mean they don't?!

[Magus]

You mean they don't?!

It's called Remote Control. It's flown by men in a small shack with large PCs, radio thingamajig and what not.

But hell, man or machine, they don't know what's collateral damage is.