School Uniforms: Looking at both sides of the argument

[pretender15]

Most people in the world disapprove of the concept of school uniforms existing in public schools, despite this, a few individuals (primarily lower-class individuals living in England) approve of the concept. So let's just take a moment and look at the pros and cons of school uniforms.


Why school uniforms shouldn't ever exist in public schools:
-Students work better when they are able to choose their own attire.

-This is one thing that separates public schools from private schools, since private (often religious) schools have them, and public schools don't. If you want your son/daughter to wear a uniform, you send them to a private school, if not, then don't.

-Contrary to popular belief, real life school uniforms are (for the most part) not the sexy and revealing uniforms that anime shows, and they are usually hideous looking garbs.

-It gives students the ability to express themselves in a healthy and non-violent manner.

-Uniforms repress and punish individuality.

-Students who wear uniforms often find them uncomfortable.

-It's unnecessary totalitarianism and a limitation of freedoms.

-Uniforms have proven

-Uniforms do not prevent bullying.

-No one would listen to the rule, because you can't give someone freedom their entire life, and then just take it away, students, especially in high school, would just ignore the rule.

-If such a rule was ever passed, it would start protesting, riots, and rebellion. I've witnessed this first-hand when the school board of a district in my area tried to pass a rule requiring uniforms, and many students and parents protested and started a petition, banning the passage of their uniform rule.

-Uniforms are often expensive, more expensive than normal clothing. Also, bear in mind that it is not required to have the latest and greatest most popular fashion.

-Most students dress appropriately anyway, and most responsible school boards do have some minor guidelines prohibiting too revealing or inappropriate clothing from being worn (i.e. coming to school in your underwear, or wearing a shirt that advocates using meth).

-Uniforms wouldn't stop gangs if such gangs existed (there are no gangs in my area, so I wouldn't know much about that). Assigning a uniform would just be trying to blanket the gang issue, instead of getting to the heart of the problem (putting an end to the gangs).

-It makes normal clothing almost entirely useless since what's the point of owning normal clothes if you can only wear it two days a week?

-Uniforms would promote violence, since many people don't like the idea of school uniforms, so more people would shoot up school board meetings, from political activists who are against school uniforms and willing to become martyrs for their beliefs against school uniforms.

-Sub-culture is not a bad thing, and not having uniforms allows students to explore both mainstream culture and sub-culture, should they wish to.


"Good" things that school uniforms can possibly bring:
-It eliminates the ability for students to choose their own clothing, because if it actually worked (which it wouldn't), it could in theory make it so that they have to wear the same thing everyday.

-It forces people to actually care about school pride, whereas normal schools that don't force school uniforms often do NOT require students to actually take "pride" in their school. But even this "pro" for school uniforms is a fallacy, since just because you wear a uniform depicting something, doesn't necessarily mean you support it.

[Azunite]

Most people in the world disapprove of the concept of school uniforms existing in public schools, despite this, a few individuals (primarily lower-class individuals living in England) approve of the concept. So let's just take a moment and look at the pros and cons of school uniforms.


Why school uniforms shouldn't ever exist in public schools:
-Students work better when they are able to choose their own attire.

-This is one thing that separates public schools from private schools, since private (often religious) schools have them, and public schools don't. If you want your son/daughter to wear a uniform, you send them to a private school, if not, then don't.

-Contrary to popular belief, real life school uniforms are (for the most part) not the sexy and revealing uniforms that anime shows, and they are usually hideous looking garbs.

-It gives students the ability to express themselves in a healthy and non-violent manner.

-Uniforms repress and punish individuality.

-Students who wear uniforms often find them uncomfortable.

-It's unnecessary totalitarianism and a limitation of freedoms.

-Uniforms have proven

-Uniforms do not prevent bullying.

-No one would listen to the rule, because you can't give someone freedom their entire life, and then just take it away, students, especially in high school, would just ignore the rule.

-If such a rule was ever passed, it would start protesting, riots, and rebellion. I've witnessed this first-hand when the school board of a district in my area tried to pass a rule requiring uniforms, and many students and parents protested and started a petition, banning the passage of their uniform rule.

-Uniforms are often expensive, more expensive than normal clothing. Also, bear in mind that it is not required to have the latest and greatest most popular fashion.

-Most students dress appropriately anyway, and most responsible school boards do have some minor guidelines prohibiting too revealing or inappropriate clothing from being worn (i.e. coming to school in your underwear, or wearing a shirt that advocates using meth).

-Uniforms wouldn't stop gangs if such gangs existed (there are no gangs in my area, so I wouldn't know much about that). Assigning a uniform would just be trying to blanket the gang issue, instead of getting to the heart of the problem (putting an end to the gangs).

-It makes normal clothing almost entirely useless since what's the point of owning normal clothes if you can only wear it two days a week?

-Uniforms would promote violence, since many people don't like the idea of school uniforms, so more people would shoot up school board meetings, from political activists who are against school uniforms and willing to become martyrs for their beliefs against school uniforms.

-Sub-culture is not a bad thing, and not having uniforms allows students to explore both mainstream culture and sub-culture, should they wish to.


"Good" things that school uniforms can possibly bring:
-It eliminates the ability for students to choose their own clothing, because if it actually worked (which it wouldn't), it could in theory make it so that they have to wear the same thing everyday.

-It forces people to actually care about school pride, whereas normal schools that don't force school uniforms often do NOT require students to actually take "pride" in their school. But even this "pro" for school uniforms is a fallacy, since just because you wear a uniform depicting something, doesn't necessarily mean you support it.



1- How do you know that?
2-So parents choose between public and other schools just because of uniforms? In Turkey, everyone wears uniforms.
3-Schools uniforms in Turkey a lot relaxed, the uniforms you are talking about are only in religious schools.
4-Express yourself with clothing ? The boy may wear rock clothes, piercings and chain amulets but he is a geek, can happen.
5- Eh?
6-I started to think that this is not a research but your personal opinion
7-Excuse me? This is a school. You should have limitations.
8-Proven what?
9-So casual clothing prevents bullying? Besides who said it prevents=
10-If you ignore, you will be kicked out. Ifyou are stupid, then you wouldn't wear a uniform
11-That is what happens when you don't have uniform. Lack of discipline, spoiled students.. First-hand witness, this is.
12- Sorry but the uniform sellers over there seem to be overcharging you.
13- /
14-Why do you always come up with things like "Uniforms cannot prevent this-that..." Do we say they can prevent? Do you think casual clothing doesn't provoke it further?
People can get into serious fights for simple reasons when someone doesn't like someone's t-shirt and start a fight.
15-Yay! More money left for your dad! Now you can keep your clothing and your dad can buy a new car. Besides, if you don't go out after school or in the weekend to wear your clothes it simply shows you something far else...
16- Whoa mate, seriously you fucked up the entire thread here. Nobody would shoot people because you wear black trousers and a white shirt. You simply made things up here to make the thread look longer.
17- :D Why don't we talk about apples then ?

Only very few of your statements made sense, little sense. However, the rest were simply made up, probably by you in order to make the thread look a little fancier.

I beleive that in your next post you will probably say "Students will start a revolution because of uniforms, take over the country and declare that day as "National Uniform Burning Day" and celebrate it! "

[nick]

Well that's a really balanced summary of the pros and cons

Do you have any idea how offensive this comment is: "a few individuals (primarily lower-class individuals living in England) approve of the concept".

I -repped your earlier post and if I could, I would do the same again.

[Kiko]

Hello loaded words...

More pros:
I don't have to spend time picking out an outfit everyday

I feel really comfortable around all of the people at my school, no one "sticks out" as being part of a certain clique

I learn that clothes don't make a person what they are

Enforcing limits sets a great tone for future outfit choices. It teaches you to dress to impress.

[scuba steve]

Here he goes again, I didn't even bother to continue reading after your insulting line saying only lower class citizens of England use uniforms, since it's so single minded if there was one person i could make dead with my mind, the choice would be very easy.

Honestly, kid you live in the USA you don't like uniforms fair enough, but why to continue to troll this site with your absent minded, offensive view points towards it. I gave you a great debate why they are used yesterday, yet you continue to troll.

Uniforms are tradition, they have proven to encourage learning and you have done virtually no research other than your own opinions why they are bad, so please, just stop.

[ShatteredWings]

Straight to debates

E&C to ROTW

[Fact]

*~insert biased bullshit here~*

↑ that is all that need be said about your original post.

Well that's a really balanced summary of the pros and cons

Do you have any idea how offensive this comment is: "a few individuals (primarily lower-class individuals living in England) approve of the concept".

Here he goes again, I didn't even bother to continue reading after your insulting line saying only lower class citizens of England use uniforms, since it's so single minded if there was one person i could make dead with my mind, the choice would be very easy.
...
Uniforms are tradition, they have proven to encourage learning and you have done virtually no research other than your own opinions why they are bad, so please, just stop.

↑ what these two said.

The fact that you open your 'argument' with a small minded, pathetic statement such as that one is enough reason for me to not even bother continuing to read your 'reasons' with, what looks to be, the correct foresight.

Seriously, my rage is actually flooding out right now. This is amongst the most preposterous things I've read here so far: you basically said that only poor and stupid people want uniforms...

That is absurd.

Only have three words to say to you really:
THIS IS RIDICULOUS.

[Amnesiac]

While I agree with some of your points, none of them are cited and you didn't even consider the other side of the argument. Both sides of this debate have equally valid viewpoints, and your bias disgusts me.

That being said, I refuse to take part in any more debate on this subject. I'll be a silent observer.

[Korashk]

Public school uniforms are a violation of property rights. But then again, so is mandatory schooling.

[Grid]

I don't like the idea of school uniforms anymore than anyone else, I think they are pointless and evil. But cheer up, it's Christmas!

[scuba steve]

I don't like the idea of school uniforms anymore than anyone else, I think they are pointless and evil. But cheer up, it's Christmas!

...Evil, been watching too much Recess on Disney, ay chum?

[Peace God]

-It forces people to actually care about school pride, whereas normal schools that don't force school uniforms often do NOT require students to actually take "pride" in their school.
That seems like bull to me...in fact, forcing school "pride" on your own students seems counterintuitive.

[Sith Lord 13]

While I agree with some of your points, none of them are cited and you didn't even consider the other side of the argument. Both sides of this debate have equally valid viewpoints, and your bias disgusts me.

That being said, I refuse to take part in any more debate on this subject. I'll be a silent observer.

Just because one sees both sides does not mean one isn't arguing for a particular side. If one is arguing for a side, bias is part of the definition.

[Amnesiac]

Just because one sees both sides does not mean one isn't arguing for a particular side. If one is arguing for a side, bias is part of the definition.

Well, the title and intro to the OP's post imply that he's going to neutrally look at both sides of the debate, something he hasn't done.

[Korashk]

Both sides of this debate have equally valid viewpoints.
Both sides may have valid points, but rarely, if ever, is there an issue where viewpoints are equally valid.

[Zero Beat]

I couldn't be fucked reading any of that. But i know one thing:

I like uniforms. But not the ones they pick. I much rather the cool ones that Japanese school often have, or maybe I just like the guys in them :3
http://www.asianpopcorn.com/battle_images/shinee_in_school_uniform-200901021935312.jpg

[Fact]

Just because one sees both sides does not mean one isn't arguing for a particular side. If one is arguing for a side, bias is part of the definition.

Read my latter comment.

Well, the title and intro to the OP's post imply that he's going to neutrally look at both sides of the debate, something he hasn't done.

Exactly.

Both sides may have valid points, but rarely, if ever, is there an issue where viewpoints are equally valid.

Yes, but there are definitely more than two positive points for uniforms and half of the negative points the OP has stated are not true or just complete nonsense.

Title of thread: School Uniforms: Looking at both sides of the argument
Content of thread: a page worth of crap in my browser vs. 2 points for the opposite side.
Reality of thread: it's a load of FALSE biased rubbish.

[Sith Lord 13]

Yes, but there are definitely more than two positive points for uniforms and half of the negative points the OP has stated are not true or just complete nonsense.

Title of thread: School Uniforms: Looking at both sides of the argument
Content of thread: a page worth of crap in my browser vs. 2 points for the opposite side.
Reality of thread: it's a load of FALSE biased rubbish.

You can look at both sides if you see the pros in one side and the cons in the other. It's still looking at both sides.

[scuba steve]

You can look at both sides if you see the pros in one side and the cons in the other. It's still looking at both sides.

But he didn't look at both sides, he just ignorantly presumed with other things people had said in his previous thread with very little research on his own part. I would show you his initial post, but as of now he has removed it.

[Azunite]

Well, the OP simply made an epic fail. Now fall out

[The Dark Lord]

Most people in the world disapprove of the concept of school uniforms existing in public schools,


Source?

despite this, a few individuals (primarily lower-class individuals living in England) approve of the concept. So let's just take a moment and look at the pros and cons of school uniforms.


causal racism, nice touch.


-Students work better when they are able to choose their own attire.


Really?

-This is one thing that separates public schools from private schools, since private (often religious) schools have them, and public schools don't. If you want your son/daughter to wear a uniform, you send them to a private school, if not, then don't.


Another invalid and retarded point. The purpose of private schools is for parents and children to network and socialise with the influencial. Also, class divides public and private schools much more than school uniform.

-Contrary to popular belief, real life school uniforms are (for the most part) not the sexy and revealing uniforms that anime shows, and they are usually hideous looking garbs.


Surely its better that 12 year old girls don't look "sexy"?

-It gives students the ability to express themselves in a healthy and non-violent manner.


No, it doesn't. If a child needs to avoid wearing a school uniform in order to express himself, then there are more serious underlying issues with that child

-Uniforms repress and punish individuality.


No, just no.

-Students who wear uniforms often find them uncomfortable.

So? That's not the purpose of wearing school uniforms

-It's unnecessary totalitarianism and a limitation of freedoms.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, We don't live in Nazi Germany.

-Uniforms have proven


What exactly?

-Uniforms do not prevent bullying.


yeah, the school bully is much more likely to steal school shoes than expensive trainers

-No one would listen to the rule, because you can't give someone freedom their entire life, and then just take it away, students, especially in high school, would just ignore the rule.


What rule? If it became law then students would abide by the law because, unlike you, most students are not completely morons

-If such a rule was ever passed, it would start protesting, riots, and rebellion. I've witnessed this first-hand when the school board of a district in my area tried to pass a rule requiring uniforms, and many students and parents protested and started a petition, banning the passage of their uniform rule.


You and your parents need a social life or a hobby, quickly.

-Uniforms are often expensive, more expensive than normal clothing. Also, bear in mind that it is not required to have the latest and greatest most popular fashion

I could get a uniform for £20, there's not any difference in price

-Most students dress appropriately anyway, and most responsible school boards do have some minor guidelines prohibiting too revealing or inappropriate clothing from being worn (i.e. coming to school in your underwear, or wearing a shirt that advocates using meth).


If you came to school in your underwear, you would be sectioned. Contary to your opinion people aren't that stupid

-Uniforms wouldn't stop gangs if such gangs existed (there are no gangs in my area, so I wouldn't know much about that). Assigning a uniform would just be trying to blanket the gang issue, instead of getting to the heart of the problem (putting an end to the gangs).


The fact that you have no experience of gangs explains why the above point is wrong, there are gangs all over the world, school uniform is neither the cause nor the solution to gang fights

-It makes normal clothing almost entirely useless since what's the point of owning normal clothes if you can only wear it two days a week?


Fine, wear uniform at weekends. Also my parents wear suits at work and jeans at the weekend, should they stop buying suits now?

-Uniforms would promote violence, since many people don't like the idea of school uniforms, so more people would shoot up school board meetings, from political activists who are against school uniforms and willing to become martyrs for their beliefs against school uniforms.


No they don't, I actually feel sorry for you now.

-Sub-culture is not a bad thing, and not having uniforms allows students to explore both mainstream culture and sub-culture, should they wish to.


Shut Up.

-It eliminates the ability for students to choose their own clothing, because if it actually worked (which it wouldn't), it could in theory make it so that they have to wear the same thing everyday.


even your pro points are biased

-It forces people to actually care about school pride, whereas normal schools that don't force school uniforms often do NOT require students to actually take "pride" in their school. But even this "pro" for school uniforms is a fallacy, since just because you wear a uniform depicting something, doesn't necessarily mean you support it.


I give up

[Azunite]

Matty simply summarised all possible answers to OP's pitiful statements.

[eatthis9999]

School Uniform Is A Good Thing

Uniform is cheaper then clothing
Uniform rules stop people coming to school in 5 KG of make up
Uniform stops people being all like oooh what am i wearing tomoz so they can concentrate on accademic work
Uniform helps identify students in an emergency
Uniform is practical

were as all your points are mostly made of rubish

[Trevoooor]

School Uniform Is A Good Thing

Uniform is cheaper then clothing
Uniform rules stop people coming to school in 5 KG of make up
Uniform stops people being all like oooh what am i wearing tomoz so they can concentrate on accademic work
Uniform helps identify students in an emergency
Uniform is practical

were as all your points are mostly made of rubish

This.

[Jess]

Uniform helps identify students in an emergency

sorry, I feel a bit stupid, but how does this work? if everyone's wearing the exact same thing...

[Fact]

sorry, I feel a bit stupid, but how does this work? if everyone's wearing the exact same thing...

Example: on a school trip.

[Jess]

oh I see so students don't get mixed up from one school with other schools

[Fact]

oh I see so students don't get mixed up from one school with other schools

Well, yes, and just for clarity really. It's much easier to spot a person wearing a bright red sweater that you're used to seeing all the pupils in your school wear every day than it is to spot a person that's wearing similar clothes to everyone else.

[Sebastian Michaelis]

in the us we have freedoms so i believe that we should wear what we want that doesnt interfere with the learning

[scuba steve]

in the us we have freedoms so i believe that we should wear what we want that doesnt interfere with the learning

Meanwhile, the rest of the world does not...?

[The Dark Lord]

in the us we have freedoms so i believe that we should wear what we want that doesnt interfere with the learning

In the UK and the rest of the free world we have freedoms so I believe that wearing a school uniform is so insignificant that it doesn't interfere with our learning

[Fushigi]

actually here in my place public schools allow students to wear civilian clothes .... but i prefer to have uniform because it is more convenient to use... i mean just wash it and use the other day... well in my experience here if someone sees u using ur clothes u wear the other day or other week they ask u an insulting question like "is that ur only clothes??"
so its better to have a uniform no one will notice that u only have one :)

[Sith Lord 13]

Uniform is cheaper then clothing

No they're not, at least not here. Uniforms were the single biggest expense when I went to grade school.

Uniform rules stop people coming to school in 5 KG of make up

No they don't. That's covered by the dress code, which is separate from the uniform requirement.

Uniform stops people being all like oooh what am i wearing tomoz so they can concentrate on accademic work

If they're going to obsess on it then they'll be obsessing about whatever outfit they'll wear after school tomorrow.

Uniform helps identify students in an emergency

The uses for this are very limited. It can just as easily be achieved by having students wear a specific color on the day of a trip. It's also so infrequent an issue as to not be worth it.

Uniform is practical

Define practical. I'd say having to spend at least a hundred dollars on clothes that will only be worn at school isn't exactly practical.

were as all your points are mostly made of rubish

Instead of making comments which don't contribute to the debate and are instead meant to be inflammatory, why not focus on some less easily picked apart points.

[PJay]

Hmm as I have to wear a uniform I was going to post in support but The Dark Lord's post above has made me think more about this and I agree with most of his points.
I think uniforms are designed to impose a group identity and for practical reasons like making kit standard and replacable (army etc).
I was going to say I quite like wearing a blazer cos I like having the pockets but apart from that ... yeah actually it sucks. First thing I do is take it off when i get home.

There was something on the news about a kid getting stabbed by two gangs. I believe I read they were from two schools in two different uniforms. Thats the other thing with uniforms : my school has kids come from a long way away and some have to go on public transport, so they usually hide their tie and jacket or even change completely so they dont get picked on for being from a different school.