The unnecessary totalitarianism that is school uniforms.

[ShipOfTheLine]

Thank god school uniforms don't exist in most schools in America. I realize a couple Catholic/private schools have them. But if they ever hit public schools, there will be an open rebellion against the federal government of United States. A rebellion that will result in massive loss of life. Taking away the right to dress freely in American high schools and junior high schools is the line that we the people of the United States of America draw. Our Founding Fathers gave us the right to bear arms to prevent totalitarianism and rebel against our government if need be. I hope it doesn't come to a rebellion, but we will rebel if necessary. Hopefully things will never come to that though, hopefully school uniforms never exist. And they never will, because if they did, there would be a rebellion. Everyone will rebel, both high school students and your average citizen who has had enough of this totalitarianism in America.

[Tristin.]

i go to a private school in britain and i think school uniform is good, it makes everybody equal. It allows for easy identification and pride in your school.

[cuddlemuffin3]

i go to a private catholic school and have to wear a uniform everyday. It's not that it teaches everyone to e equal, but rather it teaches us girls a little discipline with what we'r wearing.

You feel better academically wearing a uniform rather than a T-shirt and Sweatpants.

Dress for success!

[Fact]

Thank god school uniforms don't exist in most schools in America. I realize a couple Catholic/private schools have them. But if they ever hit public schools, there will be an open rebellion against the federal government of United States. A rebellion that will result in massive loss of life. Taking away the right to dress freely in American high schools and junior high schools is the line that we the people of the United States of America draw. Our Founding Fathers gave us the right to bear arms to prevent totalitarianism and rebel against our government if need be. I hope it doesn't come to a rebellion, but we will rebel if necessary. Hopefully things will never come to that though, hopefully school uniforms never exist. And they never will, because if they did, there would be a rebellion.

Okay, first of all, no one would DIE to not wear a uniform, seriously.

Secondly, it's just clothes. They don't hurt anyone, they don't restrict your every day life, they don't affect your learning either (what school is REALLY for). They are merely a way of creating equality and, depending on your school, a cheap and fool proof way of dressing when being educated.

Thirdly, I've worn a uniform my whole life. I really don't care. They look smart, you don't have to buy new clothes to wear to school, you just buy what you need and no one can be discriminated for their clothing. What is so horrible about that?

Finally, your remark on totalitarianism and rebellion makes it sound like wearing uniforms is equivalent to torture, which it really isn't.

Seriously over reacting about uniforms. Fair enough it has probably never been part of your life so it's alien to you... but it's just cloth and thread...

[MysteriousMagic]

I go to an "average" school over here in England, and we all have to wear uniforms. xP To be honest, I think they're good and bad.

Good:
No-one's mocked for the clothes they wear
People can't go OTT (You know, really, really, really short skirts, etc)
It gives you pride in your school. ^_^

Bad:
They're frumpy. I hate the frumpy-ness of my school uniform
We wear ties, so people choke each other. xP Stupid, I know.
It's an ugly colour: green. A really dark, dark green.

[ShipOfTheLine]

Okay, first of all, no one would DIE to not wear a uniform, seriously.

Many would kill to protect our freedoms. I'm one of them. I will not let America become totalitarianist or have school uniforms. Neither will others.

[Fact]

It's not that it teaches everyone to e equal, but rather it teaches us girls a little discipline with what we'r wearing.

It's not just girls that need to be disciplined. Also it does teach equality. Boys can be just as ruthless as girls when it comes to making fun of other people's expression - including clothing and hairstyles etc.

[Tristin.]

your screwed if you ever want to work at the savoy or the ritz, or even in some business's.

So when you go to work, and your told you have to wear a suit, you wont?

[ShipOfTheLine]

It's not just girls that need to be disciplined. Also it does teach equality. Boys can be just as ruthless as girls when it comes to making fun of other people's expression - including clothing and hairstyles etc.

You've obviously never lived in a free society. It's not as bad as "reality" (fake) television makes it seem like.

[Fact]

Many would kill to protect our freedoms. I'm one of them. I will not let America become totalitarianist or have school uniforms. Neither will others.

That is ridiculous. IT'S JUST CLOTHES.

You've obviously never lived in a free society. It's not as bad as "reality" (fake) television makes it seem like.

FYI, I don't watch any television. The fact that you quote such a thing suggests that you're the one that watches too much television about your 'rights' and all that crap.

You think USA is a 'free' society? HA. That is a mockery in itself.

[ShipOfTheLine]

your screwed if you ever want to work at the savoy or the ritz, or even in some business's.

So when you go to work, and your told you have to wear a suit, you wont?

Businesses are different, businesses set their own rules. But government run schools are different.

That is ridiculous. IT'S JUST CLOTHES.

"it's just clothes"

"it's just a curfew"

"it's just surveillance cameras in public"

That is ridiculous. IT'S JUST CLOTHES.



FYI, I don't watch any television. The fact that you quote such a thing suggests that you're the one that watches too much television about your 'rights' and all that crap.

You think USA is a 'free' society? HA. That is a mockery in itself.

I don't ever watch television almost.

Please learn to use the •Edit• feature located at the bottom right of your post instead of triple posting

[Tristin.]

Businesses are different, businesses set their own rules. But government run schools are different.

your a hypocryte then, its the same thing lol

i got to a PRIVATE NON GOVERNMENT RUN SCHOOL and i wear a uniform, using your logic, thats good

[Fact]

"it's just clothes"

"it's just a curfew"

"it's just surveillance cameras in public"

No. Now you're getting off topic.

Uniforms are clothes. Uniforms are not WHEN or WHERE you are doing anything, it's more of the WHY and WHAT.

Also, if uniforms became enforced, then you would not:

a) see people dying to not wear uniform

b) see people killing to not wear uniform

Your notion of having to wear a uniform being suicidal is really disproportionate to the reality of it.

[MysteriousMagic]

Businesses are different, businesses set their own rules. But government run schools are different.

I understand that England is a democracy while America is a Republic, blah-blah-blah, but here comes a rant.

I understand that uniforms are expensive and not everyone can afford them, but still, I doubt that people would kill themselves if they had to wear uniform to school. Wearing uniforms gives people better... self-control, I believe the phrase is, when they go to work.

Sorry if I completely miss the point here, just thought I'd add in my two pennies worth.

[Fact]

I understand that England is a democracy while America is a Republic, blah-blah-blah, but here comes a rant.

I understand that uniforms are expensive and not everyone can afford them, but still, I doubt that people would kill themselves if they had to wear uniform to school. Wearing uniforms gives people better... self-control, I believe the phrase is, when they go to work.

Sorry if I completely miss the point here, just thought I'd add in my two pennies worth.

You have not missed the point at all.

Also, not all uniforms are expensive. Public school uniforms in Britain would probably cost about £40 (sorry, convert to dollars if necessary) and that includes trousers/skirts, jumpers/shirts and shoes for most public schools that I'm aware of.

I go to a private school so mine is ridiculously expensive, but that's another kettle of fish.

[ShipOfTheLine]

Before anyone says "it's just clothing" then you sir are a fool.

"it's just just a school uniform that you're forced to wear against your will"
"it's just a curfew that effects everyone"
"it's just surveillance cameras in public"
"it's just getting patted down at airports"
"it's just censorship of 'unsavory' media"
"it's just the government controlling the press"
"it's just the right to hold supposedly 'bad' people without charging them with a crime"

Where does it end? It won't ever end. If we give them an inch, they will ruin America even more so than it already is. The government wants for there to be complete "order" and absolutely no freedoms. It would be easier for the government that way, then they could bend the universe to their will.

[Fact]

Before anyone says "it's just clothing" then you sir are a fool.

"it's just just a school uniform that you're forced to wear against your will"
"it's just a curfew that effects everyone"
"it's just surveillance cameras in public"
"it's just getting patted down at airports"
"it's just censorship of 'unsavory' media"
"it's just the government controlling the press"
"it's just the right to hold supposedly 'bad' people without charging them with a crime"

Where does it end? It won't ever end. If we give them an inch, they will ruin America even more so than it already is. The government wants for there to be complete "order" and absolutely no freedoms. It would be easier for the government that way, then they could bend the universe to their will.

No. Now you're getting off topic.

Uniforms are clothes. Uniforms are not WHEN or WHERE you are doing anything, it's more of the WHY and WHAT.

Also, if uniforms became enforced, then you would not:

a) see people dying to not wear uniform

b) see people killing to not wear uniform

Your notion of having to wear a uniform being suicidal is really disproportionate to the reality of it.


↑ I refer you back to my previous post.

Clothing is not proportionate to spying, man handling, curfews or media censorship.

[Tristin.]

your point in posting this makes no sence. i may have missed the point, but why post it knowing your gonna get opinions on it and just be overly stubborn and slighty paranoid

[MysteriousMagic]

You have not missed the point at all.

Also, not all uniforms are expensive. Public school uniforms in Britain would probably cost about £40 (sorry, convert to dollars if necessary) and that includes trousers/skirts, jumpers/shirts and shoes for most public schools that I'm aware of.

I go to a private school so mine is ridiculously expensive, but that's another kettle of fish.

My uniform is expensive, because there's different things for different seasons.

It says on the letter home, to buy a jumper, tie, two blouses, two pairs of trousers/a skirt and a pair of trousers/two skirts (and tights if needed), a pair of black shoes, white socks, green hair bobbles, a summer t-shirt and a summer jumper.

It's stupid, I know.

I can't think of the right thing to say. Isn't it restraint? It means that when you get a job, you'll be able to understand why you wear the uniform and whatever.
Ugh, I fail at phrasing.

[Tristin.]

i have two unifroms, school and casual lol
school for while im at school, and casual for any after school outings or at the weekends if we are away from school

it doesnt bother me.

[Fact]

I can't think of the right thing to say. Isn't it restraint? It means that when you get a job, you'll be able to understand why you wear the uniform and whatever.
Ugh, I fail at phrasing.

Do you mean, it doesn't affect you as a person/your learning/your personality as to what clothes you're wearing if everyone is the same as it makes people equal.

Also, it teaches you discipline in what you're wearing so that when you have a dress code in later life, it's not a huge adaptation.

[ShipOfTheLine]

School uniforms are sluttier than what teens actually wear.

[Tristin.]

since when ?

[MysteriousMagic]

...Sorry? Um, since when?

(sorry almost quoting you there, Tristin. xP)

[Fact]

School uniforms are sluttier than what teens actually wear.

LMFAO.
Sorry, I find this HILARIOUS.
And you said my opinion was corrupted by the media? LOL.

Okay, laugh over.
No, they are not. That is complete nonsense.
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.temima.org/link/issues/20070102/schooluniform.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.temima.org/link/thelink.php%3Fissue%3D20070102&usg=__aTfoT0Xz3sSAGkpxMYq4NpLNSYQ=&h=342&w=300&sz=48&hl=en&start=54&zoom=1&tbnid=HH5XuxZKn4LDDM:&tbnh=152&tbnw=133&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dschool%2Buniform%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1440%26bih%3D785%26tbs% 3Disch:10,1281&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=371&ei=FbYLTdS_LYiJ4Abv-KGTDQ&oei=7bULTbz0CoeAhAesqfW-Cw&esq=3&page=3&ndsp=34&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:54&tx=62&ty=73&biw=1440&bih=785
↑ you think that's slutty?

Also, uniforms are not just for the benefit of not being 'slutty', they are to promote equality, prevent bullying and overall it saves you money.

[ShipOfTheLine]

That is ridiculous. IT'S JUST CLOTHES.



FYI, I don't watch any television. The fact that you quote such a thing suggests that you're the one that watches too much television about your 'rights' and all that crap.

You think USA is a 'free' society? HA. That is a mockery in itself.

LMFAO.
Sorry, I find this HILARIOUS.
And you said my opinion was corrupted by the media? LOL.

Okay, laugh over.
No, they are not. That is complete nonsense.
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.temima.org/link/issues/20070102/schooluniform.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.temima.org/link/thelink.php%3Fissue%3D20070102&usg=__aTfoT0Xz3sSAGkpxMYq4NpLNSYQ=&h=342&w=300&sz=48&hl=en&start=54&zoom=1&tbnid=HH5XuxZKn4LDDM:&tbnh=152&tbnw=133&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dschool%2Buniform%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1440%26bih%3D785%26tbs% 3Disch:10,1281&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=371&ei=FbYLTdS_LYiJ4Abv-KGTDQ&oei=7bULTbz0CoeAhAesqfW-Cw&esq=3&page=3&ndsp=34&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:54&tx=62&ty=73&biw=1440&bih=785
↑ you think that's slutty?

Also, uniforms are not just for the benefit of not being 'slutty', they are to promote equality, prevent bullying and overall it saves you money.

Hello Japan

Please do NOT post borderline pornographic images.

[Tristin.]

i give up on this thread, he is beyong reasoning

that photo is for an animie lol i lived in tokyop for 6 months, and they do not dress like that, your the one influenced by the media

[Donkey]

I support school uniform. It means that lower, middle and upper classes are all equal - no one is judged by the clothes that they wear which removes one reason to bully another or to feel inadequate. It lifts financial strain on parents to constantly buy new clothes in order for their children to "keep with the times," and keeps kids looking smart.

[Fact]

Hello Japan

So you think that the majority of school uniforms look like this? Yeah, in your dreams perhaps.
'Slutty' uniforms are something depicted in films. You can make a school uniform slutty just as easily as you can make your own clothes slutty, uniforms are not about sluttiness - sluts will be sluts no matter what they're wearing.

[ShipOfTheLine]

So you think that the majority of school uniforms look like this? Yeah, in your dreams perhaps.
'Slutty' uniforms are something depicted in films. You can make a school uniform slutty just as easily as you can make your own clothes slutty, uniforms are not about sluttiness - sluts will be sluts no matter what they're wearing.

Fact: There is no legitimate reason for school uniforms to exist.

Myth: In England where most schools require uniforms, everyone is treated equally.

[Tristin.]

your not even from england :S how can you say that, those of us from there have posted that most are treated equal when it comes to clothes, there is still a hierachy, but not with clothes haha

[Fact]

Fact: There is no legitimate reason for school uniforms to exist.

Myth: In England where most schools require uniforms, everyone is treated equally.

Legitimate reasons for uniforms:
- promotes equality, especially with regards to finance and wealth
- encourages discipline
- prevents discrimination of pupils for their own clothes
- cheap and less hassle on parents

Your myth is almost off the point. I am not saying "if everyone changes their clothes, everyone is magically perfect and nice". I have said "if everyone is wearing the same thing, no one can discriminate each other's clothing, it PROMOTES equality (not guaranteed) and it DOES cost less.


Edit:your not even from england :S how can you say that, those of us from there have posted that most are treated equal when it comes to clothes, there is still a hierachy, but not with clothes haha

↑ exactly.

[MysteriousMagic]

Ship, you're being really stereotypical here.
You think all uniforms are slutty, you think that ALL teens today wear slutty clothes, you think that Japan has little tiny skirts for school uniforms.

[ShipOfTheLine]

Let's face it, school uniforms will never happen.

[Fact]

Let's face it, school uniforms will never happen.

They already have happened.

If you don't think they'll happen in USA, then why did you post a thread about people killing themselves over it in the first place?

[Azunite]

I have no idea why y ou people hate uniforms so much! It makes you get rid of the "Oh shit what will I wear today?!" trouble

[phish]

i go to a private school in britain and i think school uniform is good, it makes everybody equal. It allows for easy identification and pride in your school.



Agreed.

[nick]

School uniform in the UK generally helps the less well off because its not competitive. If there was no uniform people would want to be seen in the latest designer trainers or clothes, whatever, whereas uniform takes all of that out of the equation. Most schools run second hand shops if anyone cant afford new, and for younger children you can often pick up the clothes from Tesco at give-away prices.

[Perseus]

Are you stupid? I mean, really

I used to live in Mississippi, and the public school I went to changed to uniforms when I was in fifth grade. People didn't like it, but they got over it. Do you know why we got them? Because people were made fun of the clothes they wore.

You're such a terrible troll, dude.

[Amnesiac]

I disagree with school uniforms because I believe they infringe on rights to free expression and they create a much more stressful learning environment. Having to spend the day in stuffy clothes that are all only one bland, unsaturated color is extremely uncomfortable. I do believe the fact that my high school doesn't have school uniforms, allowing us to wear more "airy" clothes, has contributed to lower stress levels and higher grades for myself.

[Fact]

I disagree with school uniforms because I believe they infringe on rights to free expression and they create a much more stressful learning environment. Having to spend the day in stuffy clothes that are all only one bland, unsaturated color is extremely uncomfortable. I do believe the fact that my high school doesn't have school uniforms, allowing us to wear more "airy" clothes, has contributed to lower stress levels and higher grades for myself.

If you've never warn a uniform in school, how do you know what one is like? Even if they were stuffy, what's likely to affect a person's learning more? Being a bit hot and opening a window or being bullied for expressing themselves within school?
You could say that uniforms infringe rights, but at the end of the day people who are in school don't have an awful lot of discretion as to what they do with their education anyway. It's not like what happens in school is carried out of school, so I don't see what the big deal is about wearing a uniform.

[Amnesiac]

If you've never warn a uniform in school, how do you know what one is like? Even if they were stuffy, what's likely to affect a person's learning more? Being a bit hot and opening a window or being bullied for expressing themselves within school?

I wore a uniform for 3 years in middle school. I do believe that the clothes had a somewhat negative effect on my learning, not only due to the fact that they were uncomfortable but also due to the fact that the rules were so strictly enforced that I would flip out over possibly breaking one.

We were never given a specific reason why there was a uniform in place, since teens around here are notably anti-fashion (so I can't assume it was class-related). None of the elementary or high schools have uniforms and they function fine, so I never saw a reason why they put one in middle school.

You could say that uniforms infringe rights, but at the end of the day people who are in school don't have an awful lot of discretion as to what they do with their education anyway. It's not like what happens in school is carried out of school, so I don't see what the big deal is about wearing a uniform.

From a constitutional standpoint (remember, I'm in America), one could say (based on past Supreme Court decisions) that imposing a uniform limit's a student's right to non-verbal expression. Here in the United States, students have an established right to protest in school as long as they don't disrupt learning. Wearing a shirt or armband is one way of doing this, and it's obviously limited by the restrictions my middle school imposed on our clothing (without a clear reason, either).

[nick]

I disagree with school uniforms because I believe ... they create a much more stressful learning environment. Having to spend the day in stuffy clothes that are all only one bland, unsaturated color is extremely uncomfortable. I do believe the fact that my high school doesn't have school uniforms, allowing us to wear more "airy" clothes, has contributed to lower stress levels and higher grades for myself.
Sorry, but this is the defecation of a male cow. There is nothing stressful at all about wearing school uniform. If anything its the opposite. Stressful if being in cheap clothes when all your friends are in the latest designer gear. Everyone being the same is not stressful.

[Vaneskera]

I wouldn't mind wearing a uniform. It would definitely save my family money. I spend about four hundred dollars a year on clothes, I bet a uniform would be much less money than that.

However, I have made friends because I broke out of the Hollister/American Eagle thing everyone else wears, so I really just... don't know.

[Amnesiac]

Sorry, but this is the defecation of a male cow. There is nothing stressful at all about wearing school uniform. If anything its the opposite. Stressful if being in cheap clothes when all your friends are in the latest designer gear. Everyone being the same is not stressful.

Well, if you refer back to my previous post, my school never gave a reason for having a uniform, therefore I can't say it was class-related. All the schools within a 5-mile radius of us don't have one, and they function perfectly. Having to worry about being within regulations just added to the stress middle school already put on me.

[nick]

Well, if you refer back to my previous post, my school never gave a reason for having a uniform, therefore I can't say it was class-related. All the schools within a 5-mile radius of us don't have one, and they function perfectly. Having to worry about being within regulations just added to the stress middle school already put on me.
Then it must be cultural, or just you.

Here in the uk school uniform is normal. There'e nothing stressful about it, it doesnt affect how you do in your classes. To be honest I cant begin to understand why it would be a big deal.

[Amnesiac]

Then it must be cultural, or just you.

Here in the uk school uniform is normal. There'e nothing stressful about it, it doesnt affect how you do in your classes. To be honest I cant begin to understand why it would be a big deal.

It's probably a cultural thing. Here in Texas, people wear jeans and t-shirts and nothing else. There's no class-based fashion war, so imposing a mandatory dress code in schools here is entirely unnecessary. Besides, uniforms (here) don't eliminate this hypothetical class war anyway — someone could buy a much nicer polo shirt than someone else. They don't even do anything about shoes.

If anything, the uniforms my middle school had were counter-productive and made us look less attractive to parents compared to other schools. The amount of wasted time enforcing the uniform rules was, in my opinion, absurd.

UK school uniforms are much nicer anyway; I honestly wouldn't mind them as much.

[Fact]

It's probably a cultural thing. Here in Texas, people wear jeans and t-shirts and nothing else. There's no class-based fashion war, so imposing a mandatory dress code in schools here is entirely unnecessary. Besides, uniforms (here) don't eliminate this hypothetical class war anyway — someone could buy a much nicer polo shirt than someone else. They don't even do anything about shoes.
↑ there is a limit to how 'nice' a white polo shirt can get...
Also, it's often a very specific design, so that doesn't matter so much anyways.

UK school uniforms are much nicer anyway; I honestly wouldn't mind them as much.
↑ you could say that, but I still stand by my original point. Uniforms are never a bad thing.
You don't see people in the military complaining about having to wear a uniform, do you?
Nor do you see anyone else in a profession that has to wear a uniform complaining.
So to me, a uniform is just another part of learning.

[Amnesiac]

↑ there is a limit to how 'nice' a white polo shirt can get...
Also, it's often a very specific design, so that doesn't matter so much anyways.

Well, that still doesn't address my point: why impose a uniform without valid reason, one that serves only to make the school look more "ghetto" and all around less desirable? It makes no sense to me.

↑ you could say that, but I still stand by my original point. Uniforms are never a bad thing.
You don't see people in the military complaining about having to wear a uniform, do you?
Nor do you see anyone else in a profession that has to wear a uniform complaining.
So to me, a uniform is just another part of learning.

Adults have the ability to choose a profession where there's not a work uniform. It's up to them, and in addition to that, many companies are letting go of workplace uniforms altogether.

Teens don't have a choice whether or not they want to attend a school where there's a uniform. School attendance is required by law, and most parents aren't able to home-school their children.

Unless schools have a valid reason to impose uniforms, they shouldn't. The military has valid reason to impose their dress standards — it acts as a camouflage, categorizes soldiers by class and their uniforms are designed specifically for the environments they work in. However, my middle school offered no clear reason why they needed a uniform. Therefore, they shouldn't have. I can understand why schools in areas with class tensions have uniforms, but not schools in my area, which is solidly middle-class and anti-fashion.

[Fact]

Well, that still doesn't address my point: why impose a uniform without valid reason, one that serves only to make the school look more "ghetto" and all around less desirable? It makes no sense to me.

Because uniforms are smart, less hassle, promote equality and are cheaper than having to fund several new outfits, whether it's fashionable or not.



Adults have the ability to choose a profession where there's not a work uniform.

My point was more, people don't look for a profession because of the uniform, they go because they want to do the job. Same goes for school, you go because you have to and to be educated, not because you want to look good in your clothes, so why should it matter if you're all wearing the same thing?

I can understand why schools in areas with class tensions have uniforms, but not schools in my area, which is solidly middle-class and anti-fashion.

There isn't any particular tension in my school but we still have uniforms and they still serve their purpose. Whenever we have a non uniform day, there is ALWAYS bitching one way or another about people's clothes and that is just for one day. With a uniform, there's never any of that problem.

[Jess]

School uniforms have its pros and cons...first of all you don't need to worry about what you should wear. no one will make fun of another for their clothing, right...

on the other hand it gets boring, imo to wear the same thing everyday. same colors. same clothes. boring!

[Amnesiac]

Because uniforms are smart, less hassle, promote equality and are cheaper than having to fund several new outfits, whether it's fashionable or not.

The uniforms at my school arguably caused more hassle. Students were stressed over not getting in trouble for something as mundane as not having their shirt tucked in and parents were annoyed by having to buy new uniforms every year while knowing that their kids would never wear them after middle school.

My point was more, people don't look for a profession because of the uniform, they go because they want to do the job. Same goes for school, you go because you have to and to be educated, not because you want to look good in your clothes, so why should it matter if you're all wearing the same thing?

Because clothes are a form of expression and, ultimately, personal preference. You make it sound like if we eliminated all culture from schools and focused purely on education, it would be better.

There isn't any particular tension in my school but we still have uniforms and they still serve their purpose. Whenever we have a non uniform day, there is ALWAYS bitching one way or another about people's clothes and that is just for one day. With a uniform, there's never any of that problem.

When we had non-uniform days at my old school, the mood was lighter. People were happier. There were less issues than there were with uniforms.

There's a difference between my schools and your schools. UK schools have a historical tradition of school uniforms, and it sounds like your school has valid reason to have a uniform. My schools, on the other hand, don't. There is no tradition of school uniforms in this part of the United States, and we don't have any problems with class conflict. The uniforms imposed here only serve to make the school look "poorer", stereotypically underachieving and a waste of time.

[The Joker]

"it's just just a school uniform that you're forced to wear against your will"
"it's just a curfew that effects everyone"
"it's just surveillance cameras in public"
"it's just getting patted down at airports"
"it's just censorship of 'unsavory' media"
"it's just the government controlling the press"
"it's just the right to hold supposedly 'bad' people without charging them with a crime"

Seriously, you're the worst troll ever. Those things aren't even slightly comparable at all. If you can find a way to actually link those things all together, then I might take you seriously.

[Fact]

Because clothes are a form of expression and, ultimately, personal preference. You make it sound like if we eliminated all culture from schools and focused purely on education, it would be better.

Depends on what you mean by culture. I'm mixed on that particular issue because I think that the courses taught in my school would be much more effective if they cut all the crap out. There are so many 'buts' and 'what ifs' that I just don't care to go in to at 00:45 :P



There's a difference between my schools and your schools. UK schools have a historical tradition of school uniforms, and it sounds like your school has valid reason to have a uniform.
It's not so much a 'need' as a sort of protocol. I just can't imagine going to school in my own clothes every day and feeling happy about it. It's fine if you have the money to be buying outfits all the time but frankly I don't. I have my uniform and that lasts me all year for a pretty menial fee compared with if I had to buy my own clothes for in and out of school all the time.

There is no tradition of school uniforms in this part of the United States, and we don't have any problems with class conflict. The uniforms imposed here only serve to make the school look "poorer", stereotypically underachieving and a waste of time.

Here it is the opposite. Classy uniform = classy school (obviously that's a generalisation, but you get the idea).
I suppose the whole 'rights' and 'freedom of expression' in USA is all over-hyped and uniform is part of that sector.

[Amnesiac]

Depends on what you mean by culture. I'm mixed on that particular issue because I think that the courses taught in my school would be much more effective if they cut all the crap out. There are so many 'buts' and 'what ifs' that I just don't care to go in to at 00:45 :P

The thing I don't like about schools is that the cultural things they do teach aren't remotely relevant to today's issues and are stripped to the bone to avoid political bias. It's ridiculous. If I ran a school, I'd make every English class read The Communist Mainfesto, then analyze the possible benefits and negative aspects of the theory.

It's not so much a 'need' as a sort of protocol. I just can't imagine going to school in my own clothes every day and feeling happy about it. It's fine if you have the money to be buying outfits all the time but frankly I don't. I have my uniform and that lasts me all year for a pretty menial fee compared with if I had to buy my own clothes for in and out of school all the time.

Your school provides uniforms?

Here it is the opposite. Classy uniform = classy school (obviously that's a generalisation, but you get the idea).
I suppose the whole 'rights' and 'freedom of expression' in USA is all over-hyped and uniform is part of that sector.

Well, here in Houston, uniform = minority/poor school. It's a common stereotype because the only schools around here that have uniforms are located in low income areas. Amazingly, my former middle school is located in one of the wealthier parts of the city.

Also, the concept of freedom of expression here in the U.S. isn't overhyped at all. There's a strong legal framework that supports it. When someone files a lawsuit regarding student speech, it's almost always a case worth looking at (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Pledge_of_Allegiance#2006_District_ruling).

[chazzrox2]

Is it me or does this idea that school uniforms are the end of American civil liberties as we know it sound a bit like Tea Party shite?
The most professional, revered and sought after careers have uniforms, they are functional, smart and allow you to be recognised easily for what you are. Even thise professions that don't actually have uniforms still usually employ a strict dress code. For example Tomasz Schafernaker (British weather reporer) cuased an upraor of complaints over his casual dress for one of his news casts, this was because it did not imply the professionalism and pride that one should have in their work.

[JackOfClubs]

All of the school's I've been to require uniforms. Personally, I like it. "Will I wear these khaki pants or these khaki pants?" You don't have to think of what people are going to think of you, you don't have to get up and think about what you're going to wear.

[Fact]

Your school provides uniforms?

What do you mean by that? You have to pay for it, but my point was that it's just much more cost effective. My school runs a second hand store where you can get uniform from, it's roughly half price compared to the two stores that sell the items new.



Well, here in Houston, uniform = minority/poor school. It's a common stereotype because the only schools around here that have uniforms are located in low income areas. Amazingly, my former middle school is located in one of the wealthier parts of the city.

So you basically just undermined your own argument because you had to wear a uniform in middle school, which was in a wealthier area.


Also, the concept of freedom of expression here in the U.S. isn't overhyped at all.

Yes it is. There is a difference between controlling someone's freedom of expression and wearing a uniform. Uniforms are an expression in themselves - that you are part of your school. It's not like if you're suddenly not wearing your own clothes you're unable to express yourself through other means.

[Jess]

You don't have to think of what people are going to think of you, you don't have to get up and think about what you're going to wear.


yes but some people prepare beforehand and some people don't care what others think. also I don't change everyday, I wear the same for 3 days, then change into something different. but I always prepare beforehand


personally, I'm glad my school doesn't require school uniforms.

[TDjinN95]

Thank god school uniforms don't exist in most schools in America. I realize a couple Catholic/private schools have them. But if they ever hit public schools, there will be an open rebellion against the federal government of United States. A rebellion that will result in massive loss of life.

Seriously? I highly doubt Americans will start to kill others over such a bagatelle.

[Amnesiac]

What do you mean by that? You have to pay for it, but my point was that it's just much more cost effective. My school runs a second hand store where you can get uniform from, it's roughly half price compared to the two stores that sell the items new.

I just wanted to clear that up, you made it sound like you bought uniforms directly from the school. Doesn't matter anyway.

So you basically just undermined your own argument because you had to wear a uniform in middle school, which was in a wealthier area.

My argument is that school uniforms should only be in place if:


There is clear evidence of harmful class or racial divison among students, or
There is a cultural or historical use of uniforms


My middle school met neither of these "requirements". It's located in a middle-class area with no divisions among classes or races, and there is no cultural or historical use of uniforms in this part of the Untied States. Therefore, it isn't necessary.

Yes it is. There is a difference between controlling someone's freedom of expression and wearing a uniform. Uniforms are an expression in themselves - that you are part of your school. It's not like if you're suddenly not wearing your own clothes you're unable to express yourself through other means.

The problem is, it's freedom of expression. If students got to choose to go to a school with a uniform, there would be no freedom of expression issues, but school is mandatory. Therefore, students aren't given a choice on whether or not they want to wear a uniform, violating their right to freedom of expression. Freedom of expression means being free to express yourself through any legal means; that includes clothing.

[Bluebird12]

This is a perfect reason for everyone to be nudists

[The Joker]

the Untied States.

http://www.morninpaper.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/untied-shoes.jpg

Yes it is. There is a difference between controlling someone's freedom of expression and wearing a uniform. Uniforms are an expression in themselves - that you are part of your school. It's not like if you're suddenly not wearing your own clothes you're unable to express yourself through other means.

But what if you wished to not be apart of your school? I'm currently in a school I don't want to be in.

[Rachajello]

I go to public school in Australia, we have a uniform. It's okay having it I guess.

Pros;;
I don't have to worry about what I'm gonna wear to school.
Everyone's wearing the same thing so you can't get teased for taste.
Cons;;
Uncomfortable.
Ugly.
Bland.
Too strict.

[Fact]

My argument is that school uniforms should only be in place if:


There is clear evidence of harmful class or racial divison among students, or
There is a cultural or historical use of uniforms


My middle school met neither of these "requirements". It's located in a middle-class area with no divisions among classes or races, and there is no cultural or historical use of uniforms in this part of the Untied States. Therefore, it isn't necessary.

What does your school being middle class have to do with anything now?



The problem is, it's freedom of expression. If students got to choose to go to a school with a uniform, there would be no freedom of expression issues, but school is mandatory. Therefore, students aren't given a choice on whether or not they want to wear a uniform, violating their right to freedom of expression. Freedom of expression means being free to express yourself through any legal means; that includes clothing.

I'm aware of how freedom of expression works. Surely if you were THAT opposed to having a uniform, you could just move schools? However that seems like a really petty thing to do - compromising your education because you can't wear what you want. That just seems like a childish strop to me - what my whole argument revolves around really; it's just clothes. There are so many more meaningful ways to express yourselves. I know that they are classed as a freedom of expression, but I think that whole idea is overrated anyway, because people don't have freedom of expression when it comes to much more pressing matters, so why should it be so liberal further down the scale if there's a glass ceiling on it?


But what if you wished to not be apart of your school? I'm currently in a school I don't want to be in.

If you're not of school leaving age then you don't have a choice whether you go to school or not, not in the UK anyway, which means they can do what they want with you (within reason of course) whilst you are attending school. Uniforms are, after all, at the discretion of whoever decides such matters within your school, whether it be your head teacher or if you have governors or whatever.

[Azunite]

Our uniform is quite comfortable in fact.
We wear black trousers,
White or Blue T-shirt or shirt
and when it is cold we wear the school's jumper.

[ShatteredWings]

This has turned into a debate. Education and careres -> ROTW

[The Dark Lord]

I understand that England is a democracy while America is a Republic, blah-blah-blah, but here comes a rant.


Did you fall and hit your head at any point in your childhood?

I don't mind wearing uniforms, but I don't see the point in them. No-one can seriously say that what kind of trousers I wear affects my performance and achievement.

[Amnesiac]

What does your school being middle class have to do with anything now?

The fact that my school is located in a middle class area, free of class conflict, is a reason why school uniforms aren't necessary.

I'm aware of how freedom of expression works. Surely if you were THAT opposed to having a uniform, you could just move schools? However that seems like a really petty thing to do - compromising your education because you can't wear what you want. That just seems like a childish strop to me - what my whole argument revolves around really; it's just clothes. There are so many more meaningful ways to express yourselves. I know that they are classed as a freedom of expression, but I think that whole idea is overrated anyway, because people don't have freedom of expression when it comes to much more pressing matters, so why should it be so liberal further down the scale if there's a glass ceiling on it?

When it comes to schools here in the United States, it's not easy for a student to express themselves. Clothes are one of only a handful of ways they can do that — students can't protest. Really, a student attending a US public school can only wear something or make a pamphlet and distribute it. Creating a uniform arguably takes away another right of theirs, limiting their freedom of expression further.

Also, I wouldn't say there's a "glass ceiling" on freedom of expression. Here in the US, it's almost unlimited.

[Fact]

The fact that my school is located in a middle class area, free of class conflict, is a reason why school uniforms aren't necessary.

Is this relating to your previous comment about most schools that have uniforms near you are shitty? If not, it sounds to me like you're saying that middle class schools with presumably middle class people attending don't have discrimination and conflict - which would be preposterous.



When it comes to schools here in the United States, it's not easy for a student to express themselves. Clothes are one of only a handful of ways they can do that — students can't protest. Really, a student attending a US public school can only wear something or make a pamphlet and distribute it. Creating a uniform arguably takes away another right of theirs, limiting their freedom of expression further.

Also, I wouldn't say there's a "glass ceiling" on freedom of expression. Here in the US, it's almost unlimited.

↑ did you not just contradict yourself right there?

[Amnesiac]

Is this relating to your previous comment about most schools that have uniforms near you are shitty? If not, it sounds to me like you're saying that middle class schools with presumably middle class people attending don't have discrimination and conflict - which would be preposterous.

I said that other schools in the city, not near mine, are shitty. They have uniforms for a reason. My school was a middle class school with middle class people that lacked any conflict whatsoever beyond the occasional schoolyard fight over a girl.

↑ did you not just contradict yourself right there?

For adults, it's nearly unlimited. For students, it's very limited.

[gbboone]

I am generally against uniforms in PUBLIC school. I actually don't have a problem with wearing one. I think I would actually like it. But I also rest easy with the idea that I have a right to choose. Also, school is mandatory. Of course you have to wear one at work. But you get to choose where you work. If you don't like to wear something, quit. That's an insane reason to quit, but you can. At school, it's like the government tells you, "Wear this, or you can't go to school. And if you don't go to school, we'll arrest your parents, and THEN make you wear it." Going to private school is your parent's choice, so I don't have a problem then. I don't even care about charter schools, as you still have a choice of what school you go to. Also, we have Tinker vs. Des Moinse.

[pretender15]

I'm with the OP, I will never have uniforms in my schools.

[The Dark Lord]

I'm with the OP, I will never have uniforms in my schools.

Unfortunately, it will never be your choice whether your school has uniforms or not

[The Joker]

What does your school being middle class have to do with anything now?




I'm aware of how freedom of expression works. Surely if you were THAT opposed to having a uniform, you could just move schools? However that seems like a really petty thing to do - compromising your education because you can't wear what you want. That just seems like a childish strop to me - what my whole argument revolves around really; it's just clothes. There are so many more meaningful ways to express yourselves. I know that they are classed as a freedom of expression, but I think that whole idea is overrated anyway, because people don't have freedom of expression when it comes to much more pressing matters, so why should it be so liberal further down the scale if there's a glass ceiling on it?



If you're not of school leaving age then you don't have a choice whether you go to school or not, not in the UK anyway, which means they can do what they want with you (within reason of course) whilst you are attending school. Uniforms are, after all, at the discretion of whoever decides such matters within your school, whether it be your head teacher or if you have governors or whatever.

No no, I want to go to school, but not where I am going now.

[Tristin.]

i find it funny how nearly every single debate always finds a way to mention class systems lol

[maestro15]

I am AGAINST school uniforms but i am FOR harsh dress codes. I hate how people dress like whores or scmucks, they look terrible and others look at them with a negative point of view. its best to express your own style but not look like a hobo or that homeboy crap

[Amnesiac]

I am AGAINST school uniforms but i am FOR harsh dress codes. I hate how people dress like whores or scmucks, they look terrible and others look at them with a negative point of view. its best to express your own style but not look like a hobo or that homeboy crap

I actually forgot to bring up a valid point you mentioned — that schools are capable of enforcing strict dress codes without going to an all-out uniform.

[Mrs.KermitTheFrogx]

i go to a private school in britain
and both non private and private school has them here
i think to some exstent uniforms good
except every year i have to buy a £55 blazer skirts ,, tights ,, socks ,, shirts ,, ties >.<
ii dont think it lets your be an individual
and isnt being a child/teen alll about finding yourself ?
How do you find your individualtity when your stuck in the same clothes
but on the other hand i go to school with some of Englands richest children so they would probly come in with coco chanel bags and stuff :Lx

[Fact]

i go to a private school in britain
and both non private and private school has them here
i think to some exstent uniforms good
except every year i have to buy a £55 blazer skirts ,, tights ,, socks ,, shirts ,, ties >.<
ii dont think it lets your be an individual
and isnt being a child/teen alll about finding yourself ?
How do you find your individualtity when your stuck in the same clothes
but on the other hand i go to school with some of Englands richest children so they would probly come in with coco chanel bags and stuff :Lx

You're not forced to buy a new uniform every year. I'm in a private school and I've only had two blazers over 5 years.
Clothes are not a way to find yourself, so in that respect uniforms are a good thing.

[Coolcar65]

The uniforms arent their to stop from expressing yourself. Clothes tell alot from a person. If your rich or simply have the extra cash you can afford to buy new clothes every so often but not everyone is so priviliged. Under privilaged people have to wear the same clothes and they dont care if its old or new. Kids will pick on these people and really and truely thats the reason for the uniform. To stop kids from picking on each other for something as stupid as that.

[Korashk]

The uniforms arent their to stop from expressing yourself. Clothes tell alot from a person. If your rich or simply have the extra cash you can afford to buy new clothes every so often but not everyone is so priviliged. Under privilaged people have to wear the same clothes and they dont care if its old or new. Kids will pick on these people and really and truely thats the reason for the uniform. To stop kids from picking on each other for something as stupid as that.
Yeah...all I have for this is anecdotal evidence, but I've never seen people bet "picked on" simply for wearing The same clothes on a regular basis. Hell, I only have about 8 pairs of pants (I wear maybe 5 of them on a regular basis) and probably 20 shirts (of which I'll maybe wear 8 outside of my house), and I only have one pair of regular shoes at a time. I could easily afford more clothes, I just don't fucking care, and neither did anyone else. Uniforms will not stop bullying in any significant fashion.

[The Joker]

You're not forced to buy a new uniform every year. I'm in a private school and I've only had two blazers over 5 years.
Clothes are not a way to find yourself, so in that respect uniforms are a good thing.

Teen boys grow, a lot, requiring new clothing sizes.

[Fact]

Teen boys grow, a lot, requiring new clothing sizes.

The person who posted was a girl, but I guess that's besides the point.

Uniforms aren't something that look stupid if you buy bigger sizes than you currently need, half of it is hidden most of the time by outer layers of clothing anyway.

Besides, when it comes to growth it doesn't matter if you're wearing a uniform or your own clothes - you still need to buy new ones. Buying your own clothes is still more expensive because you have to buy multiple sets of everything, whereas with a uniform you can just have 1 jumper or whatever which could last you a week.

[ShatteredWings]

Buying your own clothes is still more expensive because you have to buy multiple sets of everything, whereas with a uniform you can just have 1 jumper or whatever which could last you a week.

Sorry symone, I have to call that one out.

Uniforms require you to have two sets of clothing - school and 'other'.

So that's multiple sets. No one buys several of the same shirt/pants unless they have a good reason.
uniforms you have to buy 5-10 of the same shirt, (if you plan on being somewhat clean) and many schools force girls to wear skirts - and before you quote your picture from before, american catholic school uniforms very much are skirts above the knee that don't have enough fabric.

Most people change their clothes daily... Uniforms shouldn't make people less clean.
Hell, even I change every day unless i don't feel like getting out of my PJs, which i'd get sent home for if i went to school like that, considering what I sleep in

(if you're curious, I only have 2 sweaters('jumpers') neither of which cost me more than $20. I'm almost 100% positive that a school's uniform sweater would cost more than that.)


And yes I do agree with matt. Especially children, they grow. Teenage girls have their growth spurt earlier than boys, so his point is still valid, it's just shifted for girls.

[Sage]

Thank god school uniforms don't exist in most schools in America. I realize a couple Catholic/private schools have them. But if they ever hit public schools, there will be an open rebellion against the federal government of United States. A rebellion that will result in massive loss of life. Taking away the right to dress freely in American high schools and junior high schools is the line that we the people of the United States of America draw. Our Founding Fathers gave us the right to bear arms to prevent totalitarianism and rebel against our government if need be. I hope it doesn't come to a rebellion, but we will rebel if necessary. Hopefully things will never come to that though, hopefully school uniforms never exist. And they never will, because if they did, there would be a rebellion. Everyone will rebel, both high school students and your average citizen who has had enough of this totalitarianism in America.

I remember being thirteen and calling "TOTALITARIAN" on anything more structured than anarchy. It's so fun learning new words.

[Fact]

Sorry symone, I have to call that one out.

Uniforms require you to have two sets of clothing - school and 'other'.

So that's multiple sets. No one buys several of the same shirt/pants unless they have a good reason.
uniforms you have to buy 5-10 of the same shirt, (if you plan on being somewhat clean) and many schools force girls to wear skirts - and before you quote your picture from before, american catholic school uniforms very much are skirts above the knee that don't have enough fabric.

Most people change their clothes daily... Uniforms shouldn't make people less clean.
Hell, even I change every day unless i don't feel like getting out of my PJs, which i'd get sent home for if i went to school like that, considering what I sleep in

(if you're curious, I only have 2 sweaters('jumpers') neither of which cost me more than $20. I'm almost 100% positive that a school's uniform sweater would cost more than that.)


And yes I do agree with matt. Especially children, they grow. Teenage girls have their growth spurt earlier than boys, so his point is still valid, it's just shifted for girls.

I didn't say that Matt's point wasn't valid, I just showed the other side to it.

I've worn a uniform to school all my life and IMO it's saved my parents a lot of money and hassle that way.

I'm not sure what your point about girls having to wear skirts was, clarify?

Uniforms require you to have two sets of clothing - school and 'other'.

↑ same for this, clarify what you mean? I don't follow.

[ShatteredWings]

I didn't say that Matt's point wasn't valid, I just showed the other side to it.

I've worn a uniform to school all my life and IMO it's saved my parents a lot of money and hassle that way.

I'm not sure what your point about girls having to wear skirts was, clarify?



↑ same for this, clarify what you mean? I don't follow.

Saving money how? You have to buy two wardrobes
I won't speak for everyone, but I don't want to have to wear my school uniform to go out for the rest of the day. You have to keep a set of clothes for school on top of whatever else you like and wear.
And since the school's selling it, they can charge whatever the hell they please, and people will pay it.
One school in my area has gone as far as you have to wear their socks and their shoes.

Girls in skirts - that's absolutely unnecessary and perpetuating the archaic idea that women aren't equals. It they choose to, it should be an option (i also think it should be an option for boys, but another debate for that)
but what kind of values is it teaching your girls "No, the school says you have to wear a short skirt and stockings. Yes i know you're cold and it's showing too much but that's the rules"

I am NOT talking about japanese fetish schoolgirl shit, i'm talking about a typical school uniform which here in the US is a plaid skirt in the school's colors that goes above the kneecap and a white/school color buttondown.
(note, most white button down shirts on girls are semi see through, yet the male equivalent is not. But girls have to wear girl clothes and boys have to wear boys, so you won't find a girl in a uniform wearing the one that isn't because they're not allowed to)

[Fact]

Saving money how? You have to buy two wardrobes
I won't speak for everyone, but I don't want to have to wear my school uniform to go out for the rest of the day. You have to keep a set of clothes for school on top of whatever else you like and wear.

Not really, because your uniform becomes completely separate from your 'normal' clothes. Personally I don't even see my uniform as clothes any more, not in the usual sense. It's my uniform for a reason, so I wear it when I have to because I have to and think nothing of it.

Also, when you go to school here, you don't have any time to 'go out for the rest of the day' ... most people are in school from roughly 8:30 - 3:30. Personally I'm in school from 8:30 - 5:30, so I don't have time to go anywhere, so having another set of clothes in school with me is not an issue.

And since the school's selling it, they can charge whatever the hell they please, and people will pay it.
One school in my area has gone as far as you have to wear their socks and their shoes.

Maybe in USA, but not here. Here they say you have to buy this and this and this, but there are ways of getting round it. White shirts aren't difficult to come by, neither are black shoes, grey socks/black tights. Naturally there are some things that you can't get elsewhere.

Girls in skirts - that's absolutely unnecessary and perpetuating the archaic idea that women aren't equals. It they choose to, it should be an option (i also think it should be an option for boys, but another debate for that)
but what kind of values is it teaching your girls "No, the school says you have to wear a short skirt and stockings. Yes i know you're cold and it's showing too much but that's the rules"

Yeah, I know. I have to wear a skirt all year round for school, big deal. You get over it. Wear an extra layer underneath your tights if you have to - the same as you would if you were wearing normal clothes. It makes no odds about the weather because there's always a way to get around it.

I am NOT talking about japanese fetish schoolgirl shit, i'm talking about a typical school uniform which here in the US is a plaid skirt in the school's colors that goes above the kneecap and a white/school color buttondown.
(note, most white button down shirts on girls are semi see through, yet the male equivalent is not. But girls have to wear girl clothes and boys have to wear boys, so you won't find a girl in a uniform wearing the one that isn't because they're not allowed to)

Uniform skirts vary in UK entirely on which school it is.
White skirts here are see through too, if you're bothered wear a white/skin coloured bra, leave your jumper on all the time or put another top underneath it if you're bothered about showing flesh, again, not a problem.

On the contrary, a female friend of mine wears the male uniform to her school. No one cares that she does either.

[ShatteredWings]

Not really, because your uniform becomes completely separate from your 'normal' clothes. Personally I don't even see my uniform as clothes any more, not in the usual sense. It's my uniform for a reason, so I wear it when I have to because I have to and think nothing of it.


Also, when you go to school here, you don't have any time to 'go out for the rest of the day' ... most people are in school from roughly 8:30 - 3:30. Personally I'm in school from 8:30 - 5:30, so I don't have time to go anywhere, so having another set of clothes in school with me is not an issue.
It's still another set of clothing?... Regardless if you don't view it as one.

I'm in school 8-3, 8-4:30 some days (of choice)
There's plenty of time. And what about weekends, you wear your uniform then too?

No, of course you don't.
So you have a second set of clothing.

You STILL have to purchace 2 weeks worth of uniform clothing minimum to be clean, and have your normal clothes. that's still 2 wardrobes, however you want to label it.

Maybe in USA, but not here. Here they say you have to buy this and this and this, but there are ways of getting round it. White shirts aren't difficult to come by, neither are black shoes, grey socks/black tights. Naturally there are some things that you can't get elsewhere.
I really doubt that.
Because if it's the wrong brand, you can't wear it correct?

Yeah, I know. I have to wear a skirt all year round for school, big deal. You get over it. Wear an extra layer underneath your tights if you have to - the same as you would if you were wearing normal clothes. It makes no odds about the weather because there's always a way to get around it.
And how would you wear this second layer under stockings (not tights. Schools here don't generally allow tights) without it being known to teachers that you're breaking the uniform code?

And you didn't address my second point. Teaching girls that they're supposed to be like that. I don't have a problem with skirts in themselves, but not giving the choice for someone to say "i don't feel this is appropriate, pants make more sense"


Uniform skirts vary in UK entirely on which school it is.
White skirts here are see through too, if you're bothered wear a white/skin coloured bra, leave your jumper on all the time or put another top underneath it if you're bothered about showing flesh, again, not a problem.

On the contrary, a female friend of mine wears the male uniform to her school. No one cares that she does either.
Of course they are. And you can't honestly expect people to wear a sweter in the summer. So what, they're supposed to either suffer through the heat or have their undergarments on display? (skintone and white don't work, trust me... And no, i'm not looking I'm just a person who WILL notice)

and your friend must be going to a school with a very lax code, then. Would you be allowed to do that, because what you've said before leads me to think the answer would be "not a chance in hell"

[Fact]

It's still another set of clothing?... Regardless if you don't view it as one.

I'm in school 8-3, 8-4:30 some days (of choice)
There's plenty of time. And what about weekends, you wear your uniform then too?

No, of course you don't.
So you have a second set of clothing.

You STILL have to purchace 2 weeks worth of uniform clothing minimum to be clean, and have your normal clothes. that's still 2 wardrobes, however you want to label it.

I only have a weeks worth of uniform and I cope fine, just get it washed and dried over the weekend.

Even if you wear your own clothes, you still need school-appropriate clothes for school and whatever else you want to wear for when you're not in school, so it works out that you have the same amount of clothes whether you have a uniform or not, except that, in general, if you want high-street clothes, you pay more for what you buy than you do if you pay for a uniform. That's the case here anyway.


I really doubt that.
Because if it's the wrong brand, you can't wear it correct?

Incorrect. There is no brand system, even in my school (private all girls). The winter uniform is more strict, but in summer you have to wear a red cardigan with a specific collar and neck cut. As long as it meets those requirements, it doesn't matter.


And how would you wear this second layer under stockings (not tights. Schools here don't generally allow tights) without it being known to teachers that you're breaking the uniform code?

Socks? No one has to wear stockings here particularly, we're all for tights in UK :P

And you didn't address my second point. Teaching girls that they're supposed to be like that. I don't have a problem with skirts in themselves, but not giving the choice for someone to say "i don't feel this is appropriate, pants make more sense"

It doesn't teach girls that they're supposed to be like that all the time, just that within school you have to wear specific clothes for a reason and these are your specific clothes. People can still choose what they want to wear outside of school and having to wear a uniform probably makes them appreciate that even more and vice versa (understanding that uniform is important).


Of course they are. And you can't honestly expect people to wear a sweter in the summer. So what, they're supposed to either suffer through the heat or have their undergarments on display? (skintone and white don't work, trust me... And no, i'm not looking I'm just a person who WILL notice)

I highly doubt that every single make of that specific shirt is see-through. There are always ways around it.

Your friend must be going to a school with a very lax code, then. Would you be allowed to do that, because what you've said before leads me to think the answer would be "not a chance in hell"

Yes, she goes to a public school.
I go to an all girls school, so there isn't a male uniform.

[Bluebird12]

This thread needs to be moved, because obviously the OP isn't wise

[ShatteredWings]

I only have a weeks worth of uniform and I cope fine, just get it washed and dried over the weekend.

Even if you wear your own clothes, you still need school-appropriate clothes for school and whatever else you want to wear for when you're not in school, so it works out that you have the same amount of clothes whether you have a uniform or not, except that, in general, if you want high-street clothes, you pay more for what you buy than you do if you pay for a uniform. That's the case here anyway.
o.O You manage to get laundry done that often?

Not really. Almost all my clothes are school apropriate. I don't wear sweats to school but that's choice rather than dress code (which ours is weird. No tank tops)


Incorrect. There is no brand system, even in my school (private all girls). The winter uniform is more strict, but in summer you have to wear a red cardigan with a specific collar and neck cut. As long as it meets those requirements, it doesn't matter.
And how many brands carry that?


Socks? No one has to wear stockings here particularly, we're all for tights in UK :P
Jesus, and its WAMER there. OK, some places here are just obsurd.


It doesn't teach girls that they're supposed to be like that all the time, just that within school you have to wear specific clothes for a reason and these are your specific clothes. People can still choose what they want to wear outside of school and having to wear a uniform probably makes them appreciate that even more and vice versa (understanding that uniform is important).
What's the reason they have to wear something like that in school, though?
What's the reasoning behind saying "at school you need to dress like that, even if it's not appropriate" besides teaching that that's perfectly normal and acceptable?

I highly doubt that every single make of that specific shirt is see-through. There are always ways around it.
Yeah, it's called go to the mens section. Because there is no such thing as a white woman's dress shirt that isn't too thin that doesn't cost over $50

Yes, she goes to a public school.
I go to an all girls school, so there isn't a male uniform.
Public school or state school, just so we're on the same page

[Fact]

o.O You manage to get laundry done that often?

Mhhmm ^_^ well, my mother does.

And how many brands carry that?

All high-street brands pretty much have 'work wear' for people who have jobs, so there's little reason why you can't buy one from there if you're really opposed to getting one from a uniform shop. Mine come from such stores - from sales they have where it's like 6 shirts for £8 (something like 13$ in current exchange rate, not accurate).


What's the reason they have to wear something like that in school, though?
What's the reasoning behind saying "at school you need to dress like that, even if it's not appropriate" besides teaching that that's perfectly normal and acceptable?


It's the school's discretion.
If you're implying that everything that happens within schools is appropriate, normal and acceptable when I have to disagree. Schools have policies that really aren't what you'd expect to find in normal every day life. So in that respect, I think it teaches children the difference between work and play.

Yeah, it's called go to the mens section. Because there is no such thing as a white woman's dress shirt that isn't too thin that doesn't cost over $50

I've never been shopping in USA, so I wouldn't know.
Here, the men's section is probably more expensive than the women's, but finding a shirt that isn't see through isn't much of a challenge. Non of mine are see-through and came from a 'normal' high-street store.


Public school or state school, just so we're on the same page

Public schools and state schools are the same thing - both funded and dictated by the government.

Private schools have no government funding so you have to pay for it yourself and they're generally smaller and stricter.

Here at the moment, there will probably an 'academy' revolution due to the new government. Academies are not government funded, but aren't private either.

[Daniel_]

I think they stop people from expressing themselves via clothing and/or other physical meaning.

They are mostly an abomination to modern society, and should be abolished. I despise them.

[Cloud]

so uniforms suck and are evil
http://www.424sqn.com/wptest/wp-content/gallery/424-events/IMG_0719.JPG
those things get incredibly uncomfortable but they still choose to wear them?
i wonder why?
is it because maybe the slight chance that uniforms arent at all evil things that destroy the world
but maybe things that unite them as one
show pride in themselves
oh and identifies them

and Daniel i think there all expressing themselves
but their in uniform
OH MA GAWD your point got disproven what is this world coming to

[Fiction]

Uniform makes deciding what to wear in the morning a hell of a lot easier...

[ShatteredWings]

^^Unlessyou're a boy.
Sniff test!

[Cloud]

^^Unlessyou're a boy.
Sniff test!

erm?
what? explain

[ShatteredWings]

If it doesn't smell dirty, its clean
(it also helps that 80% of my clothes are blue red or black)

[Daniel_]

I'd say about 85% of mine are black, then a few red and green.

[JunkBondTrader]

I don't wear uniform anymore but I did until about two years ago and I think it's very possible to express yourself. Granted, I went to a pretty lawless school with bigger worries than uniform but the guys who were into rap music would wrap their ties around six times to make it short and puffy (which looked ridiculous) and my punky friends would make outs as long as possible.

I'm in sixth form now, like senior high only it's attatched to my old school as well as other schools in the area so I have lessons at all of them. We're exempt from uniform which you could say kind of defeats the purpose but two of the lower schools don't have them. But, looking at it, I don't think they restricted my freedom all that much and I'm a real civil-liberties nut. The government made me wear a uniform but it wasn't totalitarian because I only had to wear it in school. Outside school is another matter altogether but I don't see it as having been a major infringement on my freedom.

It did fuck all for reducing tension though, it has to be said. It wasn't really a class thing either. I'm lower-middle class but still among the richest students there and I had the royal piss taken for my coat which wasn't part of the uniform. The gangsta guys would all come in in fancy New Era caps (seriously! Why wear a Yankees cap in a country where literally no one watches baseball?) and puffa jackets and everyone would try to keep up with them. You could argue that by banning those things it would have helped but they still would've found ways around it.

Sorry for the rant. At the end of the day uniforms aren't great - they're boring, they're drab but I found it actually helped me to express myself in a weird kind of way. They're not a barrel of laughs to wear but I refuse to accept they do any harm.

[Infected]

I wore a uniform during my school years. It's a normal thing here in the UK. I absolutely hated it at the time. In retrospect, after a year in sixth form and now attending college.. I actually think uniform was a good thing to have. It made deciding what to wear easier in the mornings, and also many schools have brand whore chavs, so basically if you don't wear a fashionable/expensive brand, what you wear becomes gossip of the day. My mate in Year 8 wore a cheap tshirt saying 'SPORTS' on it, and was mobbed by a bunch of lads for it.

Many workplaces also have uniforms, so in a way, it's a preparation for life for some. I guess uniforms just represent the 'formal' nature of work/study. I don't agree with Nazi-esque uniform rules, though, like in my school - you could be suspended for having 'anti-social' hair cuts or too many piercings, a messy tie, wearing black trainers, etc.