Whale Wars

[Church]

So basically this show is about a organization that goes out and finds whaling ships that are using whales for scientific research, least that is what they say. (I'm sure its half and half on science and just profit making.). But they're tactics include exploiting sea rules to harass the whaling ships, loud sirens, stink gas, etc.

So are they in the right for doing this? You can argue their helping whales but it also hurts the average worker on the ships, when you stop them from doing their job they lose money and its harder for them to support their families.

So is what they do right or wrong?

[Sage]

Personally, I couldn't care less about the killing of whales- I would only grow concerned if they're over-hunting them to the point of endangerment and extinction, because if all the whales are gone that would have major repercussions for the ecosystem locally and elsewhere, and that would eventually hurt us as humans.

Also, while I've not seen the show myself, the title "Whale Wars" just wreaks of bias. I don't expect such a program to objectively show both sides of the situation fairly.

[huginnmuninn]

from what i've seen of that show the people think that they can do whatever they want to the whaling ships but when the whalers retaliate they start to complain... and that just doesn't seem right for some reason.

[Amnesiac]

Personally, I couldn't care less about the killing of whales- I would only grow concerned if they're over-hunting them to the point of endangerment and extinction, because if all the whales are gone that would have major repercussions for the ecosystem locally and elsewhere, and that would eventually hurt us as humans.

For centuries, whales have been hunted for meat and as a source of raw materials. By the middle of the 20th century, however, industrial whaling had left many species seriously endangered, leading to the end of whaling in all but a few countries.

There's a reason why this is illegal in so many countries.

[Iceman]

Personally, I couldn't care less about the killing of whales- I would only grow concerned if they're over-hunting them to the point of endangerment and extinction, because if all the whales are gone that would have major repercussions for the ecosystem locally and elsewhere, and that would eventually hurt us as humans.

Also, while I've not seen the show myself, the title "Whale Wars" just wreaks of bias. I don't expect such a program to objectively show both sides of the situation fairly.


They are certain protected whales,and are hunting in a sanctuary. The Japanese side of the thing is that they are doing "research" which is basically a loophoole in the law protecting the whales. They are allowed a certain number but hunt more than that. Most of the actual whalers are just like everyone else and are trying to get money from their family and don't realize what they are doing. But I think the Sea Shepards have brough plenty of attention to this matter and it needs to be reviewed.

[Ender]

I'm a big fan of Capt. Paul Watson and his efforts with Sea Shepherd. He runs the only agency that doesnt just stand there with picket signs, he actually does something because he cares. Not only does he do this with whales, although they are his biggest passion, but he does this with sharks (see documentary; Sharkwater [which i LOVED btw]) and seals.

[Iceman]

I'm a big fan of Capt. Paul Watson and his efforts with Sea Shepherd. He runs the only agency that doesnt just stand there with picket signs, he actually does something because he cares. Not only does he do this with whales, although they are his biggest passion, but he does this with sharks (see documentary; Sharkwater [which i LOVED btw]) and seals.

Exactly! He has devoted his life to marine conservation and I admire him for that

[Korashk]

I'm not generally a supporter of terrorism, which is what I consider what the Sea Shepherds as partaking in.

[Ender]

I'm not generally a supporter of terrorism, which is what I consider what the Sea Shepherds as partaking in.

They are vigilante's, not terrorists. No nation will enforce this international law, so they are taking it into their hands. Super heroes.

[Korashk]

They are vigilante's, not terrorists. No nation will enforce this international law, so they are taking it into their hands. Super heroes.
Tomatoe, tomato. The fact is that the Sea Shepherd is initiating force against a group of people hunting animals. They are the ones entirely in the wrong in my eyes.

[Ender]

Tomatoe, tomato. The fact is that the Sea Shepherd is initiating force against a group of people hunting animals. They are the ones entirely in the wrong in my eyes.

Over-hunting endangered species is okay to you?

[Korashk]

Over-hunting endangered species is okay to you?
In general, yes.

[Fact]

They are vigilante's, not terrorists. No nation will enforce this international law, so they are taking it into their hands. Super heroes.

Do you not agree that people taking the law into their own hands is generally a bad idea?

I'm not sure what my stance is on endangered species in general.
However; IMO it's almost certain that eventually every species that currently lives on Earth will die and that natural selection will occur, human interference simply upsets the rate and balance of this process, it doesn't prevent it.

[Ender]

In general, yes.

You sicken me

Do you not agree that people taking the law into their own hands is generally a bad idea?

Well, honestly, it depends on the circumstances. Obviously local shit, call the cops and let them handle it. But see, we're discussing international waters here, and a nation going in to enforce laws could cause political chaos, so they wont. But, the population has taken such a huge hit, that someone actually decided to do something.

I'm not sure what my stance is on endangered species in general.
However; IMO it's almost certain that eventually every species that currently lives on Earth will die and that natural selection will occur, human interference simply upsets the rate and balance of this process, it doesn't prevent it.

Its one thing when a species disappears due to natural cause, but when it's human intervention it is a completely different story.

[Korashk]

You sicken me
I sicken you because I don't think animals are entitled to rights?

Its one thing when a species disappears due to natural cause, but when it's human intervention it is a completely different story.
Why does it make a difference?

[Ender]

I sicken you because I don't think animals are entitled to rights?

Yes. Are you saying that only humans deserve to have rights?


Why does it make a difference?

When its caused by human intervention, we are responsible for throwing an entire ecosystem out of whack.

[Korashk]

Yes. Are you saying that only humans deserve to have rights?
No, only animals that display the qualities of rationality and reciprocity deserve rights. Humans presently just happen to be the only animals that are capable of doing this.

When its caused by human intervention, we are responsible for throwing an entire ecosystem out of whack.
Yes we are, you have just described what "human intervention" means. I asked you why this was worse than it just happening without human intervention.

[Iceman]

How should you not save that. What if humans are not a intellectual as we thought and can not communicate with everything else. What if every other animal on this planet is woundering how we could not communicate with them as they can communicate with everything besides us?

[Korashk]

How should you not save that. What if humans are not a intellectual as we thought and can not communicate with everything else. What if every other animal on this planet is woundering how we could not communicate with them as they can communicate with everything besides us?
Speculation, while sounding nice, has no place in debate.

[Iceman]

Your speculating that they are not equal because they can't do things like us

[Sith Lord 13]

Speculation, while sounding nice, has no place in debate.

Speculation has every place in debate. It's weight is not equal to established fact, but it is a valid line of thought.

[Iceman]

Speculation has every place in debate. It's weight is not equal to established fact, but it is a valid line of thought.

Exactly, everything starts as a speculation (hypothesis) and progresses to where it may, or may not, be proven.

[Korashk]

Your speculating that they are not equal because they can't do things like us
It's not speculation.

[Iceman]

Yes it is!

[Korashk]

Yes it is!
They CAN'T do things like us. That makes them not equal. This is not speculation, it is observable fact.

[Iceman]

Yah they can't do things like us, they can do things greater than us!

[Sith Lord 13]

They CAN'T do things like us. That makes them not equal. This is not speculation, it is observable fact.

The only fact is they do things in a manner we haven't observed. That could as easily be a failing on our part in observation.

[Iceman]

The only fact is they do things in a manner we haven't observed. That could as easily be a failing on our part in observation.

They could easily be communicating and doing things on a level that we haven't been able to comprehend

[Shenron]

In my humble opinion, the Sea Shepards are doing, what I consider, a good thing. I say this because the japanese whaling ships kill the whale, and then take it on board the factory ship, and immediately begin to process it. Sure they say that they are conducting research of the contents of the whales' stomachs, but really, how many whale do you need to kill before you figure out what they normally eat? Not only that, but why does it matter? Is the life of the whale, or your desire to know what quenches its hunger, more important? Furthermore, I do believe they operate within the law. I do not know if you have seen the most recent season or not but in that season, the captain of the ship "Ady Gil" (I think that is how you spell it) was brought into the Sea Shepards' campaign and was intended to be used to conduct stealth missions and as surveilance considering this vessel was much faster than their other two ships. At one point of the campaign the ship runs out of fuel and is going to wait for the Sea Shepards' other vessel to come by and refuel them while the closest one continues to follow the factory ship. One of the whalers' security ships can be seen approaching the Ady Gil at a high rate of speed and then very quickly, and at the last second, turning to the right to collide with the Ady Gil. The Ady Gil was much much smaller than the security vessel and made of weaker material. It was sliced in half and thus destroyed. There were crew in the vessel when it was struck and had any af them been in the sleeping quarters, they would have died. This is one example of the things the whalers do. Would your average scientist attempt murder to be able to freely conduct his research? I think not, it is because they are motivated by money and money alone that they go to such extremes.

Wow, sorry for the long post lol, but I believed it relevant.

[Iceman]

In my humble opinion, the Sea Shepards are doing, what I consider, a good thing. I say this because the japanese whaling ships kill the whale, and then take it on board the factory ship, and immediately begin to process it. Sure they say that they are conducting research of the contents of the whales' stomachs, but really, how many whale do you need to kill before you figure out what they normally eat? Not only that, but why does it matter? Is the life of the whale, or your desire to know what quenches its hunger, more important? Furthermore, I do believe they operate within the law. I do not know if you have seen the most recent season or not but in that season, the captain of the ship "Ady Gil" (I think that is how you spell it) was brought into the Sea Shepards' campaign and was intended to be used to conduct stealth missions and as surveilance considering this vessel was much faster than their other two ships. At one point of the campaign the ship runs out of fuel and is going to wait for the Sea Shepards' other vessel to come by and refuel them while the closest one continues to follow the factory ship. One of the whalers' security ships can be seen approaching the Ady Gil at a high rate of speed and then very quickly, and at the last second, turning to the right to collide with the Ady Gil. The Ady Gil was much much smaller than the security vessel and made of weaker material. It was sliced in half and thus destroyed. There were crew in the vessel when it was struck and had any af them been in the sleeping quarters, they would have died. This is one example of the things the whalers do. Would your average scientist attempt murder to be able to freely conduct his research? I think not, it is because they are motivated by money and money alone that they go to such extremes.

Wow, sorry for the long post lol, but I believed it relevant.

Its relevant just old ;)

[Ender]

In my humble opinion, the Sea Shepards are doing, what I consider, a good thing. I say this because the japanese whaling ships kill the whale, and then take it on board the factory ship, and immediately begin to process it. Sure they say that they are conducting research of the contents of the whales' stomachs, but really, how many whale do you need to kill before you figure out what they normally eat? Not only that, but why does it matter? Is the life of the whale, or your desire to know what quenches its hunger, more important? Furthermore, I do believe they operate within the law. I do not know if you have seen the most recent season or not but in that season, the captain of the ship "Ady Gil" (I think that is how you spell it) was brought into the Sea Shepards' campaign and was intended to be used to conduct stealth missions and as surveilance considering this vessel was much faster than their other two ships. At one point of the campaign the ship runs out of fuel and is going to wait for the Sea Shepards' other vessel to come by and refuel them while the closest one continues to follow the factory ship. One of the whalers' security ships can be seen approaching the Ady Gil at a high rate of speed and then very quickly, and at the last second, turning to the right to collide with the Ady Gil. The Ady Gil was much much smaller than the security vessel and made of weaker material. It was sliced in half and thus destroyed. There were crew in the vessel when it was struck and had any af them been in the sleeping quarters, they would have died. This is one example of the things the whalers do. Would your average scientist attempt murder to be able to freely conduct his research? I think not, it is because they are motivated by money and money alone that they go to such extremes.

Wow, sorry for the long post lol, but I believed it relevant.

Very good point here. Go Sea Shepherd!
http://www.earthlyissues.com/images/sea-shepherd.jpg

[Iceman]

Who's ready for the next season and their new boat. Any predictions

[Ender]

Im down for it.. you can probably find it now on their website, considering they prolly already have it and are half done filming xD

[Iceman]

Yah:P. They announced their new boat. What ever happened to Pete?

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/dec2010/2010-12-02-01.html

They just set off.

[Shenron]

You know, I don't know if I buy the whole "our ships were sold" bit. I understand that the meat is not selling but in a way I think that ploy is a good facade for a second whaling fleet that will be operating in a different location. It is possible that they have aquired a new factory ship and plan to set sail with two mini-fleets versus one big one. Just a thought...