Should Gay Marriages be permitted?

[The Dark Lord]

In 2010, is there any reason why gay people aren't allowed to be married?

[The Joker]

Uh, no. I still don't understand why people can't tolerate it. It's not like it would effect their daily life, at all.

[Korashk]

There is no legitimate reason one can oppose gay marriage if one supports marriage as a legal institution.

Conversely, the only rational way to oppose gay marriage is to oppose marriage as a legal institution. Like many others and I do.

[karl]

There's no problem in Spain, as gay marriages are legal, and the ceremony is carried out at Town/City Halls by the Mayor.

[Korashk]

There's no problem in Spain, as gay marriages are legal, and the ceremony is carried out at Town/City Halls by the Mayor.
Is a ceremony part of the legal process in Spain?

[Jess]

I see no problem with it at all. of course it should be permitted.

[AutumnDae]

Sure, why not? Whatever floats your boat.

[Ender]

Sure, why not? Whatever floats your boat.

This sums up my feelings.

[Punk_Kid]

I believe that there are two main reasons as to why people oppose gay marriage.

1) If they follow a Western religion they see it as a 'sin'.

2) And/Or they are afraid because it is a 'new' concept/idea to them.

I personally have nothing wrong with gays or gay marriage. As long as you don't hit on me(which has happened before), we can still be friends.

All marriage is, is a formal, legally recognized status in which both spouses share property, land, etc. You don't even need a church or some ceremony to get married. I was told all you really need are the proper papers and to fill them out and return them. Then I would think it would get recognized and approved. I'm pretty sure ^this^ is correct-ish.

Opposing gay marriage is just stupid imo:D

[Sith Lord 13]

I don't believe in changing the definition of a word to suit political correctness, but I do believe in equal rights, therefor I support abolishing legal marriage and changing it all to civil unions. Leave marriage in churches where it belongs, and let everyone have equal rights under the law.

[Amnesiac]

I don't believe in changing the definition of a word to suit political correctness, but I do believe in equal rights, therefor I support abolishing legal marriage and changing it all to civil unions. Leave marriage in churches where it belongs, and let everyone have equal rights under the law.

This is also my position on "gay marriage".

[gay_boy94]

I don't see why people have a problem with anything with gays it's the persons life and they should be able to do what they want just like any other person most of the issue is people with religion or being scared of something new but it's also that some gays are scared to come out and fight for this stuff because they don't want to be ridiculed or even in some places hurt over being gay everyone has a life let them live it how they want to and be themselves and if you don't like what people say to you ignore it and move on cuz they aren't worth your time

[Fact]

Sure, why not? Whatever floats your boat.

↑ this basically.

I don't see what people have against gay marriage. It's not hurting them?

[ShyGuyInChicago]

I think that not allowing gays to marry is discrimination.

[The Ninja]

I have no problem with gay marriage. Now a lot of people say that two straight men fake being gay for insurance or other financial reasons. I do agree that some people do this and should be investigated, but I dont see how a gay couple would be anymore likely to do this than straight couple. It 'would' be discrimination to investigate every gay marriage and no straight marriages. So supposing a gay marriage is going to be investigated you would need grounds, for instance if one or both of the men were married to a women before.

[Korashk]

I have no problem with gay marriage. Now a lot of people say that two straight men fake being gay for insurance or other financial reasons. I do agree that some people do this and should be investigated
Why should any marriage get investigated for any reason if getting married is a legal process?

[steve1234]

They have every right to get married. There are many cases where a male and a female couple are in a loveless marriage, so how can you deny two gay people who are in love a proper marriage? I know in the UK gay couples can have civil partnerships, which is better than some countries, but its still not completley fair.

Also, if gay couples have the same rights as straight couples, then maybe it will make people accept them more?
I know I still feel a little uncomfortable around gay couples, so maybe giving them the same rights can help raise awareness, and make people feel more comfortable around a gay couple.

[Kaya]

Gays should be allowed to be married, and adopt just like the rest of us.

[northskater110]

There is no reason why it shouldn't have occurred already. It is merely intolerant people being themselves, intolerant. In my opinion, I'm for it, because who am I to say that two members of the same sex can't have a loving relationship between them that creates happiness for both of them.

[Jenna.]

I don't see any reasons why it shouldn't be permitted. Love is love, whether it's between a man and a woman or two men and two women. It shouldn't matter.

[Sith Lord 13]

two men and two women

So you're in favor of polygamy too?

[Sogeking]

two men and two women. Polygamous Marriage? I think not

[Sage]

Polygamous Marriage? I think not

Why not?

[josh93]

I think LGBTs should be able to get married. I find nothing wrong with at all.

[mranderson]

ITs so stupid that gay marriage is still illegal in places

[Jess]

ITs so stupid that gay marriage is still illegal in places

I totally agree....

[Sogeking]

Why not? polygamy is stupid. A man(or woman) should be satisfied with just one spouse

[Vonn]

polygamy is stupid. A man(or woman) should be satisfied with just one spouse

Not everybody can be happy with one person for the rest of their life. As long as the multiple partners agree with each other, there's no problem.

The only major difference between gay and straight marriage is the man!woman and man!man/woman!woman. Other than that, what? It's nobody else's business.

[Sogeking]

Not everybody can be happy with one person for the rest of their life. As long as the multiple partners agree with each other, there's no problem.

The only major difference between gay and straight marriage is the man!woman and man!man/woman!woman. Other than that, what? It's nobody else's business. 1st part: well then that person needs to work out as to why he cant find satisfaction in just 1 person. Plus those marriages rarely work out. 2nd part: when you redefine marriage for everyone else, it is our business.

[Vonn]

1st part: well then that person needs to work out as to why he cant find satisfaction in just 1 person. Plus those marriages rarely work out.

Why should he/she have to find satisfaction in just one person?

The stability of the marriage depends on the spouses, not the type of marriage.

2nd part: when you redefine marriage for everyone else, it is our business.

People get married because they want to be with somebody they love for as long as they love each other. Nobody pokes their noses around in straight couples' marriages because they're considered normal.

[Amnesiac]

1st part: well then that person needs to work out as to why he cant find satisfaction in just 1 person. Plus those marriages rarely work out.

That's the same thing as saying "well, straight one-spouse couples just don't understand you can love more than one person!" Also, please cite your statements.

2nd part: when you redefine marriage for everyone else, it is our business.

Pssht. Legal marriage is not religious marriage. It's not like the government is going into churches and rewriting marriage. No. Legal marriage is a separate concept, and it can be twisted as much as they want it to be. Just because the government will legally bind two (or, in this case, more) people doesn't mean the churches have to.

[Sith Lord 13]

polygamy is stupid. A man(or woman) should be satisfied with just one spouse

Monogamy is stupid. A man or woman should be able to love as many people as they choose.


Got a question for everybody. Why is it OK to have gay marriage and not polygamous marriage?

[The Dark Lord]

polygamy is stupid. A man(or woman) should be satisfied with just one spouse

surely its only to love more than 1 person?

[Bath]

The intolerance and ignorance is what causes this to become a debate anyway. It shouldn't be, some people are gay, get over it. The only reason I can SORT OF understand is the religious aspect, how marriage originated from religion (I think Christianity but don't quote me on it.) But my argument would be that you can't take things with original meaning when the world changes and definitions change with it.

[Korashk]

Got a question for everybody. Why is it OK to have gay marriage and not polygamous marriage?
Polygamous marriages would create a lot of confusion for the legal system. How is inheritance divided? Who gets to make medical decisions. What are the non-parental spouse's rights when it comes to children? Who gets what in divorces when only one spouse wants to split?

To accommodate these, and likely many other, issues the state would have to completely revamp the entire concept of marriage.

[Vonn]

off topic:

Polygamous marriages would create a lot of confusion for the legal system. How is inheritance divided?

Equally, or as equal as it could get.

Who gets to make medical decisions.

Who gets to make medical decisions in monogamous marriages?

What are the non-parental spouse's rights when it comes to children?

The same as a step-parent's, I suppose, because technically that's what they would be.

Who gets what in divorces when only one spouse wants to split?

They would have to work it out for themselves, and as long as they can reach an agreement, s'all good.

/off topic

To be somewhat on topic: gay and polygamous marriage is a-okay. There's no real reason (yet) why it would be a problem.

[Black Eight]

As a believer in separation in church and state I don't think marriage should be a legal institution at all, it should be civil unions. Marriage should be a religious institution.

[Lasky]

Of course. Society has no right to tell people who they should marry. It is THEIR right.

As for the religious aspect of it- http://faithskeptic.50megs.com/pwb.htm Let's start there.

The bible is messed up in all sorts of unthinkable ways, so it saying "Marriage should be between a man a woman" is a bunch of bullshit to begin with. All in all, people have no right to control others decisions because they "don't agree with them" or because "God damns gays"

[Syvelocin]

I do have to agree with Alex though, in why polygamous relationships aren't legal. And even further, incestuous other than the health of a child to be conceived that way.

*shrug* Whatever works for you, that's my position on everything like that.

Though being who I am, I'm strongly for gay marriage.

[trooneh]

As a believer in separation in church and state I don't think marriage should be a legal institution at all, it should be civil unions. Marriage should be a religious institution.


I completely agree with this. Remove the word marriage from all things governmental. Make everything civil unions, since that's what they really are, and if people want to get married then they do in a religious way. That ensures equality, as well.

[Vkid]

they shud definitely be allowed

[Zach85]

Personally I don't care what people do in private. My only problem with homosexual marriage being legal is if churches are forced to perform these marriages and also churches being charged with hate speech for preaching Biblical doctrines. Sounds crazy but that's what happened in Canada.

[Korashk]

Personally I don't care what people do in private. My only problem with homosexual marriage being legal is if churches are forced to perform these marriages and also churches being charged with hate speech for preaching Biblical doctrines. Sounds crazy but that's what happened in Canada.
In America churches can't marry people. They don't have that authority.

[JackOfClubs]

I completely and whole-heatedly support gay marriage. Just because you like the same sex you should not be left out of one of the basic rights of human beings: to come together in marriage.

[Theatheist of doom]

In 2010, is there any reason why gay people aren't allowed to be married?

The key words (and numbers) here are In 2010 and aren't allowed to be married. What happened to all men are created equal. Its just the select few bible thumpers holding us down. I think this shouldn't even have been a discussed matter in the constitution which it wasn't. All of a sudden there are restrictions on gay marriage because some people feel the need to hate other people for little to no justifiable reason. I don't even see how this is still a law. :yawn:

[Wicked_Syn]

Whatever works for you in my opinion. People who discriminate against gay marriage must be jealous because their relationship must not be as hot and exciting as a gay couple lmao

[TDjinN95]

In 2010, is there any reason why gay people aren't allowed to be married?

Soon it's 2011...
And, nope, there aren't any reasons for them not to get married.

[hollisterbabe]

I have no problem with gay marriage. It doesnt matter what gender you are its about love.

[Sith Lord 13]

In America churches can't marry people. They don't have that authority.

You're either being ridiculously pedantic (of course a building can't marry people), or you're wrong. A priest is fully authorized to perform a legal marriage, and often does so on the same day as the religious marriage.

[Magus]

Marriage is a silly thing, and especially for those machos gays. They don't need it.

[Sith Lord 13]

Marriage is a silly thing

Add the legal prefix in front of that and I agree completely.

[Magus]

Add the legal prefix in front of that and I agree completely.
Legal or not. Marriage is a seriously silly thing.

Also, I believe Marriage was and is a religious ceremony that was suppose to bring a couple together, for the purpose building a family -- and to avoid to what is considered a sin. Which is kind of obvious.

Now, I announce you both as Husband and Husband? Why do you need to be husband and husband. I think people in secular nation are free to do all sorts of things.

Am I missing the point here?

Marriage is women's bondage, to begin with. Yeah, we know the cultures where women can have more than one man. But still, the one older and the wealthier owns the women.

[Korashk]

You're either being ridiculously pedantic (of course a building can't marry people), or you're wrong. A priest is fully authorized to perform a legal marriage, and often does so on the same day as the religious marriage.
All he has to do is sign the paper in front of some witnesses. Legal marriage does not in any way involve a performance. Priests are one of the numerous professions that can do so.

[gbboone]

Why is the government involved anyway? Lets just make marriage a private business. Mary same sex, multiple people, heck, marry a dog if you want.

[Daniel_]

I say, Live and let live.

If a man and a women can be married, why not a man and a man? Or a women and a women? It's just stupid that it should be any other way. Thats my opinion.

[Dunce]

Responding to the polygamy conversation that started on the last page:
I understand where you're coming from, I do. But saying a person should be allowed to love more than one person, well... does that mean you find nothing wrong with cheating then? I'm pretty sure it does. And if you loved someone, why would you need anyone else? You wouldnt seriously fall for anyone if you already were on love with someone else.
Maybe it's just me, but when I have feelings for someone, I want to be with them, and thats all I need.

And as for gay marriage.. well, I'm in favour of it, in a way. Marriage is for a man and a woman, to build a family, to bond them so that they'll bring up children having a mother and a father. Whether gay couples adopt or not, theres either going to be two mothers, or two fathers, not a mother and a father. My point is, no one really needs marriage, but thats what marriage is, a bond between a man and a woman. Not a woman and a woman, or a man and a man, not a woman and her cat, or a man and his paintbrush. I suppose they just think if its supposed to be between a man and a woman only, and then if they let the same gender marry each other, why not let people marry pets or objects? You know? Thats why its illegal in some countries.
But I'm bi, and if I end up with a woman I will probably want to marry her, I just like the idea of it. The rings, the big day, the pictures, the memories, and most importantly, the promise.
So I do think gays should be able to marry, if thats what they want.
If it makes you happy, then go for it.

[pretender15]

yes.

[Sith Lord 13]

Responding to the polygamy conversation that started on the last page:
I understand where you're coming from, I do. But saying a person should be allowed to love more than one person, well... does that mean you find nothing wrong with cheating then? I'm pretty sure it does.

No it doesn't. Cheating is wrong because it's a violation of trust.

And if you loved someone, why would you need anyone else? You wouldnt seriously fall for anyone if you already were on love with someone else.

Actually, a lot of people do.

Maybe it's just me, but when I have feelings for someone, I want to be with them, and thats all I need.

When you're with them a few weeks, or a few months, fine, but a whole lifetime? Some people just fall in love with more than one person.

Also, you never addressed what made polyamory different from homosexuality in terms of why the arguments that support homosexual marriage can't be used to support polyamorous marriage.

And as for gay marriage.. well, I'm in favour of it, in a way. Marriage is for a man and a woman, to build a family, to bond them so that they'll bring up children having a mother and a father. Whether gay couples adopt or not, theres either going to be two mothers, or two fathers, not a mother and a father. My point is, no one really needs marriage, but thats what marriage is, a bond between a man and a woman. Not a woman and a woman, or a man and a man, not a woman and her cat, or a man and his paintbrush. I suppose they just think if its supposed to be between a man and a woman only, and then if they let the same gender marry each other, why not let people marry pets or objects? You know? Thats why its illegal in some countries.
But I'm bi, and if I end up with a woman I will probably want to marry her, I just like the idea of it. The rings, the big day, the pictures, the memories, and most importantly, the promise.
So I do think gays should be able to marry, if thats what they want.
If it makes you happy, then go for it.

What about the civil union compromise?

[Charleigh]

i get inspired when i see 2 of the same sex getting married. they are showing that they love each other. to me its like proving a point. they obiously arnt bothered that people might judge them for it, but they are standing up and being counted as a gay couple. im 100% happy with 2 of the same sexes getting married (: i mean, who doesnt deserve to make their own choices and beleive what they want to beleive in?

[Shadowhunter]

I don't see why people are so against it because to be perfectly honest why should i matter to anyone when people of the same sex are in love or get married? It doesn't affect anyone but themselves...if a women and a men can fall in love and that is accepted there is no reason why a man and a man or a women and a women cant fall in love...it's just people seem to not like change and attack things/people that arn't within the tiny peramiters of norm....to me..if you're in love then get married...there shouldn't be rules for who can and can't wed because of sex..no one should have that hold over someones life.

[SwimTech]

I dont understand why in the constitution/declaration of independence says 'right to life, liberty, and THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS" and yet, gays and lesbians aare not able to be married to the person that they truely love. I dont understand why the government is keeping that right away from people. Its typically the republicans that discriminate the gays

[Amnesiac]

I dont understand why in the constitution/declaration of independence says 'right to life, liberty, and THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS" and yet, gays and lesbians aare not able to be married to the person that they truely love. I dont understand why the government is keeping that right away from people. Its typically the republicans that discriminate the gays

Not to be an evil social conservative, but one's "right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" isn't a legal right. Yes, it's in the Declaration of Independence, but that's separate from the Constitution. You can pretty much say it's in the Preamble because it sounds badass.

[SwimTech]

Not to be an evil social conservative, but one's "right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" isn't a legal right. Yes, it's in the Declaration of Independence, but that's separate from the Constitution. You can pretty much say it's in the Preamble because it sounds badass.

Yes, we are NOT specifically given "right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" in the constitution, but they are considered all mans "unalienable rights" that are granted to all mankind.

[Amnesiac]

Yes, we are NOT specifically given "right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" in the constitution, but they are considered all mans "unalienable rights" that are granted to all mankind.

Yes, but it's still extremely difficult to defend such a right legally, since it's not in a legally binding document.

[Mrs.KermitTheFrogx]

Depends were you live ...
in England i think they are permitted x

[Weeping]

In my opinion, gay people are just like anyone else. That means they should also have the same rights as straight people.

:hug:

[Craig1995]

No reason why they shouldn't it's suppost to be a free world..

[1_21Guns]

Ofcourse it should be legalized, as has been said it's just love.
I don't believe in marriage in the first place because I don't see why wearing a ring and signing a piece of paper proves you love someone more than if you didn't, but beside the point.
If two people want to get married nobody has the right to say they can't, it's just wrong.

[SwimTech]

Yes, but it's still extremely difficult to defend such a right legally, since it's not in a legally binding document.

"Unalienable rights are natural rights that can not be taken away from you. Such as life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as stated in The Declaration of Independence of the United States. Rights that are given to you by your Creator. They are considered natural rights and not legal rights"
http://www.ask.com/bar?q=unalienable+rights&page=1&qsrc=2891&dm=all&ab=0&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reference.com%2Fmotif%2FSociety%2Funalienable-rights&sg=EFgdKPgO%2B4O1W79my8UytALRucEYim0AdI5OG8lxgMk%3D%0D%0A&tsp=1294125740844

They are rights guaranteed to all americans by our founding fathers

[Bluesman]

Well I'm probably going to get absolutely murdered for this, but I believe that gay marriage should be illegal mainly because of my religious views. In the Bible God says marriage should be between a man and woman, so that is what I believe. I also find the concept disgusting. If you feel that you love someone of the same sex... as much as I think that it's wrong, go for it. I just believe that marriage should be reserved for a man and woman.

In America churches can't marry people. They don't have that authority.

Ummm I don't know what America you're living in but everyone in my family was married at a church, and that is the normal place to get married...

[Sebastian Michaelis]

nope love is love and btw im BI

[Tristin.]

if you love somebody and they love you, regardless of sex i think you should be able to get married if you wish.

personaly i find the idea of getting married a bit scary, if whoever i end up with oneday wishes to, id consider it but as a rule for me i would not like to get married

[Jess]

Well I'm probably going to get absolutely murdered for this, but I believe that gay marriage should be illegal mainly because of my religious views. In the Bible God says marriage should be between a man and woman, so that is what I believe. I also find the concept disgusting. If you feel that you love someone of the same sex... as much as I think that it's wrong, go for it. I just believe that marriage should be reserved for a man and woman.



Ummm I don't know what America you're living in but everyone in my family was married at a church, and that is the normal place to get married...

utter nonsense. why do you have to listen to what the BIBLE says?

gender does not matter. who cares? it's not hurting ANYONE

Just saying.

and if I get married, which I won't, but if I do, I'm not getting married at a church :S

[Amnesiac]

"Unalienable rights are natural rights that can not be taken away from you. Such as life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness as stated in The Declaration of Independence of the United States. Rights that are given to you by your Creator. They are considered natural rights and not legal rights"
http://www.ask.com/bar?q=unalienable+rights&page=1&qsrc=2891&dm=all&ab=0&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reference.com%2Fmotif%2FSociety%2Funalienable-rights&sg=EFgdKPgO%2B4O1W79my8UytALRucEYim0AdI5OG8lxgMk%3D%0D%0A&tsp=1294125740844

They are rights guaranteed to all americans by our founding fathers

Well, it says right there — natural rights, not legal rights. That makes them different. Besides, the phrase itself is so vague that it's not something a court can make out easily. What counts as 'liberty'? How does one 'pursue happiness'? Also, the government can take away your right to life via due process.

But I digress, we're off topic now.

[The Dark Lord]

Well I'm probably going to get absolutely murdered for this, but I believe that gay marriage should be illegal mainly because of my religious views.

Why should anything be legal/illegal because the bible says, nobody lives exactly by the bible anymore.

In the Bible God says marriage should be between a man and woman, so that is what I believe. I also find the concept disgusting.

I think its disgusting that in the 21st Century anyone should be treated as a 2nd class citizen because of their sexuality.

If you feel that you love someone of the same sex... as much as I think that it's wrong, go for it. I just believe that marriage should be reserved for a man and woman.

You realise that you've contradicted yourself here, but then you are a christian so you should be used to that

Ummm I don't know what America you're living in but everyone in my family was married at a church, and that is the normal place to get married...

You can get married in a register office

[Zazu]

I think it all boils down to people thinking that they have some right to try to dictate someone else's life through law / legislation e.t.c.

We are all free human beings with sentience. No one can tell us what we can and can't do as far as I'm concerned (as long as it doesn't harm another human being in any way) and as far as I can fathom, 'gay' people marrying would harm no one. No one at all.

[Vonn]

I think it all boils down to people thinking that they have some right to try to dictate someone else's life through law / legislation e.t.c.

We are all free human beings with sentience. No one can tell us what we can and can't do as far as I'm concerned (as long as it doesn't harm another human being in any way) and as far as I can fathom, 'gay' people marrying would harm no one. No one at all.


Marriage is between two people (in most cases), and viewed only by those who want to attend the ceremony. I don't get why it makes other people miles, states, or countries away shit a brick. They literally have nothing to do with someone else's marriage, so what's the big goddamn deal?

Babies. Our world is ruled by overgrown, short-tempered, whiny babies.

[Korashk]

Ummm I don't know what America you're living in but everyone in my family was married at a church, and that is the normal place to get married...
No, your parents got married when they submitted the requisite papers to the local courthouse.

[Bath]

The result of gay marriage - gays marry. That's it.
Goodnight.

[Nathan_B]

I believe that if you love someone enough, why not spend the rest of your life with them. No matter what the gender

[The Dark Lord]

The result of gay marriage - gays marry. That's it.
Goodnight.

Yeah we've understood this from the beginning thanks. The point of this thread is to ask whether it should be legal or not, not the consequences of gay marriage. Goodnight.

[Lights]

Yeah we've understood this from the beginning thanks. The point of this thread is to ask whether it should be legal or not, not the consequences of gay marriage. Goodnight.

I think she was basically just saying that there's no harm in civil marriage.

I am looking to commit to a civil relationship as soon as the right guy comes about, but oddly, not marrying doesn't bother me. However I really can't see how any problems could be presented. Seriously and genuinely asking, what is the worst that could result from a civil marriage?

People need to stop labelling others by their sexuality and just let them live their lives how they want to. I hate the label of 'gay' which is exactly why I use the word civil instead (where possible).

[Bluesman]

Why should anything be legal/illegal because the bible says, nobody lives exactly by the bible anymore.



I think its disgusting that in the 21st Century anyone should be treated as a 2nd class citizen because of their sexuality.



You realise that you've contradicted yourself here, but then you are a christian so you should be used to that



You can get married in a register office

If you want to turn this into a religious debate, then we should do it in a different thread but here it goes... why should something be illegal/legal because of the Bible? Have you ever heard of One Nation UNDER God? That's right, the United States is a nation founded on Christianity, our founding fathers considered what God said before other people! Why has every president been sworn in on the Bible? That's right, they chose to. Our nation is still fairly dependent on Christianity. 2nd class citizen, you're free to "love" whoever you want! Is marriage that big of a deal? I've contradicted myself? In the Bible (which obviously you could care less about) God says that Christians should not really interfere with other peoples' business, just tell them that it is wrong and about the Bible... if you don't want to hear that, then go fuck guys. If that's your thing then go ahead. Yes you can get married in a register office, but most people do not. If you want to continue this debate, then tell me and we can create a knew thread. I'll be MORE than happy to argue.

[Amnesiac]

If you want to turn this into a religious debate, then we should do it in a different thread but here it goes... why should something be illegal/legal because of the Bible? Have you ever heard of One Nation UNDER God? That's right, the United States is a nation founded on Christianity,

Okay, this is where the misinformation ends. "One Nation Under God" is considered a "symbolic" phrase by numerous federal courts. The United States government is not allowed to provide any endorsement for one religion over another after over 200 years of Supreme Court decisions regarding the separation of church and state. This nation is not "founded" on Christianity, on the contrary, many of the Founding Fathers (especially Jefferson) were deists and skeptical of religion.

our founding fathers considered what God said before other people!

Lol, no.

Why has every president been sworn in on the Bible? That's right, they chose to. Our nation is still fairly dependent on Christianity.

Not legally, though.

[Korashk]

Is marriage that big of a deal?
Do you know what marriage means outside of a religious context?

Yes you can get married in a register office, but most people do not.
On the contrary; EVERY SINGLE PERSON in America who is considered married by the government did so at the courthouse/register office. The little (or big) ceremony at the church is quite literally meaningless outside of a religious context.

[Sith Lord 13]

No, your parents got married when they submitted the requisite papers to the local courthouse.

On the contrary; EVERY SINGLE PERSON in America who is considered married by the government did so at the courthouse/register office. The little (or big) ceremony at the church is quite literally meaningless outside of a religious context.

No, they didn't. Most are married by a religious official, who then signs the marriage licence and files the necessary paperwork with the court. The couple need not set foot in the court.

[The Dark Lord]

why should something be illegal/legal because of the Bible? Have you ever heard of One Nation UNDER God? .

Yes I have, unfortunately I'm neither religious nor American, therefore that argument doesn't apply to me

That's right, the United States is a nation founded on Christianity, our founding fathers considered what God said before other people! Why has every president been sworn in on the Bible? That's right, they chose to.


The founding fathers also considered slaverly moral, so you'll excuse if I don't take their word for law.

Our nation is still fairly dependent on Christianity. 2nd class citizen, you're free to "love" whoever you want! Is marriage that big of a deal? I've contradicted myself? .


I don't know, have you contradicted yourself?

In the Bible (which obviously you could care less about) .


and yet you still use it to argue to point

God says that Christians should not really interfere with other peoples' business, just tell them that it is wrong and about the Bible... if you don't want to hear that, then go fuck guys.


hahahahahahahahaha, no.

If that's your thing then go ahead. Yes you can get married in a register office, but most people do not. If you want to continue this debate, then tell me and we can create a knew thread. I'll be MORE than happy to argue.

Argue what?, your argument is flawed
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Having responded to your posts I'm going to let President Bartlett own you and your bible

DSXJzybEeJM

[Bluesman]

Yes I have, unfortunately I'm neither religious nor American, therefore that argument doesn't apply to me




The founding fathers also considered slaverly moral, so you'll excuse if I don't take their word for law.




I don't know, have you contradicted yourself?




and yet you still use it to argue to point




hahahahahahahahaha, no.



Argue what?, your argument is flawed
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Having responded to your posts I'm going to let President Bartlett own you and your bible

DSXJzybEeJM

Ok... I'm just going to stop because their's no point in arguing with someone who already has their mind made up. I find it quite pathetic that you have to bash something just because you believe it's wrong though... pretty sad actually. When religion is taken out of the world completely, you'll see what a shitty place the world will be.

[The Dark Lord]

Ok... I'm just going to stop because their's no point in arguing with someone who already has their mind made up. I find it quite pathetic that you have to bash something just because you believe it's wrong though... pretty sad actually. When religion is taken out of the world completely, you'll see what a shitty place the world will be.

You've made your own mind up so don't attempt to take the moral high ground. You find me pathetic because I believe that gay people should have the same rights as everyone else, anyone who denies this is pathetic. I'm not bashing, my response highlighted the irrelevance and pointlessness of the bible in 2011. If you take religion out of the world, there would still be a World Trade Centre in New York. You couldn't defend your views, you are homophobic and you are arrogant. Religion is no more than a control mechanism, something you have proven as you have been so incapable of defending your view point. I recommend you treat others as you would want to be treated, not as an ancient fictional book tells you to.

[Bluesman]

You've made your own mind up so don't attempt to take the moral high ground. You find me pathetic because I believe that gay people should have the same rights as everyone else, anyone who denies this is pathetic. I'm not bashing, my response highlighted the irrelevance and pointlessness of the bible in 2011. If you take religion out of the world, there would still be a World Trade Centre in New York. You couldn't defend your views, you are homophobic and you are arrogant. Religion is no more than a control mechanism, something you have proven as you have been so incapable of defending your view point. I recommend you treat others as you would want to be treated, not as an ancient fictional book tells you to.

The moral high ground? I'm not trying to take the moral high ground... if you really care one of my best friends is gay, so I am by no means a homophobe. You may have a point with the World Trade Centers, and I am not saying that all religion is right. Religion has definitely caused problems, but lack of religion has caused problem as well. The only thing that normal, non-violent (this excludes radical Islam, so don't say anything about terrorism) is unity between people, and if you choose to believe in it, a hope of an afterlife. And I am incapable of depending my view point, how so?

[Lights]

The moral high ground? I'm not trying to take the moral high ground... if you really care one of my best friends is gay, so I am by no means a homophobe. You may have a point with the World Trade Centers, and I am not saying that all religion is right. Religion has definitely caused problems, but lack of religion has caused problem as well. The only thing that normal, non-violent (this excludes radical Islam, so don't say anything about terrorism) is unity between people, and if you choose to believe in it, a hope of an afterlife. And I am incapable of depending my view point, how so?

Religion causes more conflict than it does peace, in a lot of cases. It won't always unite people for the good. I have to include Islam because it's so influential on my opinion. The handful of extremist fools from Islam think they're supporting their faith by making their attacks. I could go as far as saying that perhaps incidents like 9/11 may never have happened if there was no religion. Muslim terrorist groups do what they do because they think they're supporting their faith. The Qu'ran does not specifically condemn violence, and some Muslims exploit that.

Coming back onto the topic - a lot of religion is outdated. There's a lot of condemning of homosexuality because it wasn't acceptable in very early times. We are in the 21st century and things have changed inexplicably. It seems to wrong to be preaching guidance that is from so very long ago because like I said, it's outdated. Homosexuality is a lot more accepted in this day and age.

[Bluesman]

Alright... you guys have a completely different viewpoint than I do, and obviously neither of us will budge in our opinions. I'd love to continue debating this, but we are completely off topic now, and we are no longer even arguing about gay marriage. Let's just quit this now... it's getting kind of ridiculous.

[The Dark Lord]

Alright... you guys have a completely different viewpoint than I do, and obviously neither of us will budge in our opinions. I'd love to continue debating this, but we are completely off topic now, and we are no longer even arguing about gay marriage. Let's just quit this now... it's getting kind of ridiculous.

if you want to continue debating, start another thread

[Bluesman]

if you want to continue debating, start another thread

Ok... really I don't because it's pointless. Let's just agree to disagree.

[Cryofthewolf]

Besides religious and personal reasons, I can't think of any reasons behind banning gay marriage. Because the laws aren't based off of religous or personal beliefs, and marriage is a right to all people in the United States, it makes sense to allow gay people to marry. In my book, case closed.

[Sebastian Michaelis]

uh, no. I still don't understand why people can't tolerate it. It's not like it would effect their daily life, at all.

true dat

[Weeping]

A girl in my class has a lesbian mum. she didn't know until after she got kids
She's married. And I'm not sure about the laws about those things in Sweden.
But if I'm right, gay marriage is allowed, but not in church.

Should look this stuff up, lol :rolleyes:

Oh well, in my opinion it should be legal, cause they are people too, they should have the same rights as others. And there's no harm in gay marriage.

[Skeptical Bear]

The people use their ignorance and stubbornness to prevent these kinds of things because they rely on societies history to tell how the "story" should end when the people(government) hide and make bull shit up to scare the people. It should be legal in my opinion.

[Amnesiac]

I find it interesting that nobody here's even considered the no-marriage-at-all system, where we have universal civil unions. All of the bitching from the right over gay marriage is pretty much over the word "marriage," once we remove that from the equation equal rights for both sides will come easily.

[Korashk]

I find it interesting that nobody here's even considered the no-marriage-at-all system, where we have universal civil unions. All of the bitching from the right over gay marriage is pretty much over the word "marriage," once we remove that from the equation equal rights for both sides will come easily.
I'm an advocate of abolishing the unconstitutional discrimination that is marriage as a legal institution.
There is no legitimate reason one can oppose gay marriage if one supports marriage as a legal institution.

Conversely, the only rational way to oppose gay marriage is to oppose marriage as a legal institution. Like many others and I do.

[Amnesiac]

I'm an advocate of abolishing the unconstitutional discrimination that is marriage as a legal institution.

I know, you're one of the three people (including myself) who've discussed the idea here. It seems like everyone else is blindly saying "gays are equal, so they should be able to marry too!", which is nice and all, but it ignores the fact that marriage is a distinctly religious ceremony and the government should have no place in regulating it at all.

[Starlight Blaze]

I don't believe in changing the definition of a word to suit political correctness, but I do believe in equal rights, therefor I support abolishing legal marriage and changing it all to civil unions. Leave marriage in churches where it belongs, and let everyone have equal rights under the law.

As a believer in separation in church and state I don't think marriage should be a legal institution at all, it should be civil unions. Marriage should be a religious institution.

i feel that civil union/ legal marriage is yes something that gays should be able to do. that is just in the legal system.
however marriage in the sense of religion is specifically defined as union between a man and a woman. so that would be wrong for gays to try and get.
I'm all for the civil union battle though, and I have nothing have gays themselves anyway.

[Sith Lord 13]

I'm an advocate of abolishing the unconstitutional discrimination that is marriage as a legal institution.

How is it unconstitutional or discriminatory, aside from any prohibitions against homosexuals?

[Korashk]

How is it unconstitutional or discriminatory, aside from any prohibitions against homosexuals?
Well, it obviously isn't considered legally unconstitutional, but my argument is that by granting financial benefits for married couples the government is violating the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th amendment because these benefits are only available to those that are married and getting married is not a viable option for the entire population.

[Sith Lord 13]

Well, it obviously isn't considered legally unconstitutional, but my argument is that by granting financial benefits for married couples the government is violating the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th amendment because these benefits are only available to those that are married and getting married is not a viable option for the entire population.

An option need not be equally viable for it to still be equal protection. For example, the fact that some public schools are better than others is not a violation of the Equal Protection Clause, even if it does give an unfair advantage based on geography.

[Krazymitch]

i dont think religion should even come into this. not all married couples belive in a religion, and not all married couples get married in a church, i know my parents didnt, and i know my aunty didnt. if the religious people dont want gay couples to get married in a church, then whatever, they dont have too. but that does not mean they shouldnt be aloud too get married.

[closed]

Gay people should be allowed to get married. Marriage is a pact between to people who love each other. This pact binds those people, and officially states their commitment to each other until death is here. Depriving gay marriage doesn't make any change, because gay couples will still be, but without the joy, and special feeling of this thing called marriage. What do you achieve from that?

[DinoCrisisFan]

Yes, of course.

[Korashk]

An option need not be equally viable for it to still be equal protection. For example, the fact that some public schools are better than others is not a violation of the Equal Protection Clause, even if it does give an unfair advantage based on geography.
That's not really an equivalence. Some schools may be better, but EVERYONE gets to go to school.

[Cryofthewolf]

I completely agree with this. Remove the word marriage from all things governmental. Make everything civil unions, since that's what they really are, and if people want to get married then they do in a religious way. That ensures equality, as well.

I guess you could call me a religous person, but I love this idea. It would solve so many problems, it seems.

[schuym1]

I think that it should be permitted. The main reason that many people don't like the idea is because of their religious beliefs.

[Sith Lord 13]

That's not really an equivalence. Some schools may be better, but EVERYONE gets to go to school.

That's my point. Gay people can still marry. They just can't marry someone of the same gender.

[Korashk]

That's my point. Gay people can still marry. They just can't marry someone of the same gender.
Not really what I meant when I said getting married is not a viable option for some people. A marriage contract requires two willing participants. IF nobody will marry you, you can't get married.

[Bluesman]

I know, you're one of the three people (including myself) who've discussed the idea here. It seems like everyone else is blindly saying "gays are equal, so they should be able to marry too!", which is nice and all, but it ignores the fact that marriage is a distinctly religious ceremony and the government should have no place in regulating it at all.

Somehow I find myself agreeing with this, as you said marriage is a religious ceremony, so why should the government be regulating it? I do feel, however, that if someone is married in a religious ceremony the government should recognize that, just not be able to regulate it. Where did separation of church and state go? If the government would stay out of religion and vice versa, a ton of problems would be solved.

That's not really an equivalence. Some schools may be better, but EVERYONE gets to go to school. If everyone had the exact same thing and the government gave everyone the exact same thing we would be a communist or socialist nation. Do we really want that??

[Sith Lord 13]

Not really what I meant when I said getting married is not a viable option for some people. A marriage contract requires two willing participants. IF nobody will marry you, you can't get married.

But it's not the state prohibiting it. Everyone has to have the same lack of prohibition, not the same capacity.

[Severus Snape]

Reverse the question.

Should we deny certain people the right to get married because they have certain innate qualities?

Of course not.

[sieg]

gay couples should be able to get married and enjoy all the benefits, and disadvantages of marriage. no one is hurt.

[Sebastian Michaelis]

I really don't see why it shouldn't be illegal or legal. I'm bisexual but I think marriage is pretty exclusively for heterosexual relationships.

[Cosmic]

Somehow I find myself agreeing with this, as you said marriage is a religious ceremony, so why should the government be regulating it? I do feel, however, that if someone is married in a religious ceremony the government should recognize that, just not be able to regulate it. Where did separation of church and state go? If the government would stay out of religion and vice versa, a ton of problems would be solved.

If everyone had the exact same thing and the government gave everyone the exact same thing we would be a communist or socialist nation. Do we really want that??

You've gone way beyond the scope of the argument with your final paragraph - And the way you asked that question insinuates that you reject communism quite readily as something really bad... though I wonder what justification you have for such dismissal.

On THIS topic, marriage is a religious ceremony, but is it really okay for an organisation to be immune to state intervention when they are technically discriminating against groups of people?

In terms of legal recognition, religion's status as belief is enough for it not to hold any form of legal power as far as I'm concerned, and as such civil partnerships should be considered the main way.

[heykay]

There is no reason it should be illegal, and it's just ridiculous that we even have to debate about it.

People can't help it that they're attracted to the same sex, and this is causing many homosexual beings to marry a heterosexual person, and then the heterosexual person finds out their spouse is really gay, and never loved them, but is forced to marry someone they don't truly love because of the society today.

It's just absurd to oppose it.

[Nevermore]

It should be legal. Marriage is about two people loving each other.

[Limelight788]

I agree that gay marriages should be legal. While gay marriages aren't exactly considered normal, if people love each other, they should have every right to live with each other, regardless of sexual orientation. This is coming from a conservative Protestant Christian.

[Ryhanna]

I hate that it's not already legal, when there's really no reason other than narrow-minded bigotry preventing it.

I always get really pissed off when I think about how so many groups of people don't have equal rights. This world needs a big dose of liberation.