What Triggered Big Bang, Religions Collapse ?

[Azunite]

So at first, science could explain nothing. But religoin had an explanation for everything.

As years passed, scientific revolutions revealed so much information that it almost matched the universal knowledge of religion. Now science could explain a lot !

Now ? Now science can prove everything, from universal physics to biology. Science found an answer of the creation. First it was said that God created everything. Now science can easily say that " Universe and all other things were created by Big Bang " .

Now, the question is : " What triggered Big Bang ? " Scientists have many theories for it, but it is not proved certainly.
Now, people will say " God made the Big Bang ". However, if scientists can explain what caused the BB, in a scientifical way, do you think that religion will collapse?

Because then, we would have proved everything! We wouldn't need religion to find answer to things. After we know what caused Big Bang, we would have an answer for everything! And there would be no need for religion except superstitions and other stuff.
What are your opinions ?

[Death]

Now, the question is : " What triggered Big Bang ? " Scientists have many theories for it, but it is not proved certainly.

One can never know anything like that for certain, but all the evidence suggests that the scientists' theories are highly probable. Personally, I think that the existance of a galaxy before this one which collapsed from instability in what's called "The Big Crunch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Crunch)" (kind of like a massive singularity) is certainly plausible.

However, if scientists can explain what caused the BB, in a scientifical way, do you think that religion will collapse?

Religion will never collapse. There will always be people who believe in whatever the hell they feel like. Why else do people still exist who believe that the Earth is flat or that the 1969 moon landing was a hoax despite what evidence shows?

[Azunite]

By collapse, I meant like,
Of course people would still be devotd to their religions but religion will have no use

[Syvelocin]

However, if scientists can explain what caused the BB, in a scientifical way, do you think that religion will collapse?

It'll be just like Global Warming. Everything the scientists say will either be believed 100% or passed off as still a myth no matter how much evidence we give the Christians. People don't believe in Global Warming or evolution, even though we have proof. They don't want to hear it.

I can't wait until they prove it. But there will definitely still be people saying science is wrong.

But religion is also more than just explaining everything. Religion keeps the general public from doing things that are in human nature to do, to keep the public controlled. It also serves as a sort of hope for some people (I have a friend who holds on to Catholicism because she wouldn't have any hope in her life without it). I also think religion can be a huge excuse too, so at least Christianity will definitely stick around through anything we put in its path. We can kill people in the name of God. We can say that God told us to do it. We can justify anything, whether it'll really excuse it or not, with religion, whether it's a good excuse or not.

[Sith Lord 13]

It'll be just like Global Warming. Everything the scientists say will either be believed 100% or passed off as still a myth no matter how much evidence we give the Christians. People don't believe in Global Warming or evolution, even though we have proof. They don't want to hear it.

1) Christianity doesn't disagree with global warming. (It doesn't agree with it either, it just stays out of it, like it should.)

2) Global warming has as much evidence against it as for it.

[Peace God]

So at first, science could explain nothing. But religoin had an explanation for everything.
It depends on what you mean by "explanation". It's worth noting that when solving the great questions involving our existence, the nature of the universe etc...saying that "god did it" explains absolutely nothing scientifically. It actually only complicates things more.

Personally, I think that the existance of a galaxy before this one which collapsed from instability in what's called "The Big Crunch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Crunch)" (kind of like a massive singularity) is certainly plausible.

Actually i dont think the "big crunch" will happen. This universe is still expanding at an exponential rate and Its been discovered recently that the universe is actually flat...because of this the fate of the universe is most likely expansion forever.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and heres some sources for my view on the shape(flat) and fate(expanding forever) of the universe.

The WMAP spacecraft can measure the basic parameters of the Big Bang theory including the geometry of the universe. If the universe were open, the brightest microwave background fluctuations (or "spots") would be about half a degree across. If the universe were flat, the spots would be about 1 degree across. While if the universe were closed, the brightest spots would be about 1.5 degrees across.
Recent measurements (c. 2001) by a number of ground-based and balloon-based experiments, including MAT/TOCO, Boomerang, Maxima, and DASI, have shown that the brightest spots are about 1 degree across. Thus the universe was known to be flat to within about 15% accuracy prior to the WMAP results. WMAP has confirmed this result with very high accuracy and precision. We now know that the universe is flat with only a 2% margin of error.

WMAP- Shape of the Universe (http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/uni_shape.html)

Absent dark energy, a flat universe expands forever but at a continually decelerating rate, with expansion asymptotically approaching a fixed rate. With dark energy, the expansion rate of the universe initially slows down, due to the effect of gravity, but eventually increases. ~ Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_fate_of_the_universe#Flat_universe)

[Azunite]

That is what I mean, religion explains things simply by saying " God craeted it " or " Godwanted it so "

[Magus]

It depends on what you mean by "explanation".
Explanation to: How did we came about. Why are we here. What are we. Were all question, science nor philosophy could answer. To fill the in for the real answers, voila, People made religion. :yes:

[Azunite]

Well explained Hz. Faris :D

[Peace God]

That is what I mean, religion explains things simply by saying " God craeted it " or " Godwanted it so "

Explanation to: How did we came about. Why are we here. What are we. Were all question, science nor philosophy could answer. To fill the in for the real answers, voila, People made religion. :yes:

Exactly, "God did it" is a lazy shortcut that explains nothing. This is exactly why Intelligent Design/Creationism shouldnt be taught in science class...because its not science.

[Azunite]

Exactly, "God did it" is a lazy shortcut that explains nothing. This is exactly why Intelligent Design/Creationism shouldnt be taught in science class...because its not science.

It is science.
We know how can a sperm can change into an embryo for example:
We know why Earth is the only planet that contains life in Milky Way for example.

And God did it, is the way how religions explain. Thats why science is essential

[Sith Lord 13]

Exactly, "God did it" is a lazy shortcut that explains nothing. This is exactly why Intelligent Design/Creationism shouldnt be taught in science class...because its not science.

In their defense, God did it had been useful in history. It kept scientists from pondering the (at the time) unanswerable and freed them to pursue that which they could discover. This gave later scientists the building blocks to answer the previously unanswerable.

[Peace God]

In their defense, God did it had been useful in history. It kept scientists from pondering the (at the time) unanswerable and freed them to pursue that which they could discover. This gave later scientists the building blocks to answer the previously unanswerable.
I dont think that science needed religion's dogma to "put them on the right track". Sure, perhaps scientists would have spent less time on the "unanswerable"(at the time) questions but that's not necessarily a good thing... just because some questions couldnt be completely answered back then doesnt mean research on those questions wouldnt have been useful later on.

Good point but the negative effects of religion on scientific progress and discoveries far outweigh the positives.


It is science.
We know how can a sperm can change into an embryo for example:
We know why Earth is the only planet that contains life in Milky Way for example.

What? How did saying "god did it" help us solve these things...and how is it science?

[Magus]

What? How did saying "god did it" help us solve these things...and how is it science?
If god didn't do it, then it's just a coincidence.

Like this picture. 1000 words indeed.
http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/3/7/1/17371.jpg?v=1

[Amnesiac]

Now, the question is : " What triggered Big Bang ? " Scientists have many theories for it, but it is not proved certainly.
Now, people will say " God made the Big Bang ". However, if scientists can explain what caused the BB, in a scientifical way, do you think that religion will collapse?

If people will happily deny evolution, an observable phenomenon that has an extremely large database of evidence to support it, then they'll deny whatever scientists deem to have caused the Big Bang. It's as simple as that. People are too brainwashed to use common sense at times.

[scuba steve]

I have very heated arguments with a couple ignorant Christian friends of mine all the time, I try to explain how evolution is the closest we have to fact but they still go on to believe that humans where among dinosaurs back in the day... I really do feel sorry for them.

[Amnesiac]

I have very heated arguments with a couple ignorant Christian friends of mine all the time, I try to explain how evolution is the closest we have to fact but they still go on to believe that humans where among dinosaurs back in the day... I really do feel sorry for them.

Yeah, this is why I simply refuse to talk about religion with people. I don't tell people I'm an atheist, cause then they'll get all pissy and start trying to debate.

[scuba steve]

Yeah, this is why I simply refuse to talk about religion with people. I don't tell people I'm an atheist, cause then they'll get all pissy and start trying to debate.

I've been physically attacked by one of them in a drunken state after a debate over the topic, that's the Irish for you don't talk bad about jesus

[Amnesiac]

I've been physically attacked by one of them in a drunken state after a debate over the topic, that's the Irish for you don't talk bad about jesus

A lot of people here in America (before anyone gets all offended, I never said all Americans) aren't much better :P

[Continuum]

People are too brainwashed to use common sense at times.

The numbers are decreasing still, and proved by the prominent trend of giving up religious belief for a lack of it, which is a sign that the hegemons of society is loosening up with regards to liberty.

[Amnesiac]

The numbers are decreasing still, and proved by the prominent trend of giving up religious belief for a lack of it, which is a sign that the hegemons of society is loosening up with regards to liberty.

Indeed, but this transition is still a slow process. Us non-believers are going to be a minority for years, possibly decades to come.

[Magus]

I have very heated arguments with a couple ignorant Christian friends of mine all the time, I try to explain how evolution is the closest we have to fact but they still go on to believe that humans where among dinosaurs back in the day... I really do feel sorry for them.

Remember, earth is 8, 000 years old. We came from Adam and Eve, in which Adam came from mud or ash or... whatever, and Eve which came from Adam's rib, which magically explains the missing rib.

Earth is the center of the universe, obviously. Heavens are right above us, man. And... the stars are just lights, and the sun moves around the earth-obviously obvious-

Should I believe in that, or should I believe in the heathenish Scientists?
I am confused, and I am in a terrible dilemma.

[Syvelocin]

1) Christianity doesn't disagree with global warming. (It doesn't agree with it either, it just stays out of it, like it should.)

2) Global warming has as much evidence against it as for it.

Alright. Though, I didn't mean that Christians don't believe in it. I was just giving an example of something with evidence to support it (whether there's also evidence against it or not) that is being actively taught in schools and accepted by many as a big possibility that many still reject, sometimes, not always, but sometimes without knowledge of the science behind it

[Continuum]

Indeed, but this transition is still a slow process. Us non-believers are going to be a minority for years, possibly decades to come.

You mean, we. I'm am a Christian skeptic against an all God squad country. I am afraid to open up to anyone else, nor I'd want to partake in worshiping an invisible entity.

[Amnesiac]

You mean, we. I'm am a Christian skeptic against an all God squad country. :P

Ah, I see. What an interesting position.

[Peace God]

I just realized something....i dont think we'll never forget about Christianity...well at least not for a long time. It's too ingrained in our society. Even our years are marked by the years after the crucifixion (BC & AD)...so yeah, the story of Jesus Christ will live on!

[Continuum]

I just realized something....i dont think we'll never forget about Christianity...well at least not for a long time. It's too ingrained in our society. Even our years are marked by the years after the crucifixion (BC & AD)...so yeah, the story of Jesus Christ will live on!

Particularly how people pass it on for generations to come. :P

[embers]

Even our years are marked by the years after the crucifixion (BC & AD)

We should drop BC & AD and start using BCE & CE (Before Common Era and Common Era), although really, is there any point? It may be Christian, but does it really matter that much? They're just words used to mark specific dates.

And as for 'science disproving God by proving the Big Bang theory to be true', surely believers could counter the counter-argument by saying "Yeah God made it, but he also made the science behind it." Sure, that doesn't answer everything, but it's a start at continuing to use God as an excuse for everything.

[Peace God]

We should drop BC & AD and start using BCE & CE (Before Common Era and Common Era)
I think that historians already do that.

It may be Christian, but does it really matter that much? They're just words used to mark specific dates.
It's not the words...it's the dates themselves, about 2011 years ago Jesus was crucified (supposedly). People will continue to wonder why the calender only says a few thousand years when the earth is 4.5 billions years old and humans have been here for hundreds of thousands of years.

[Continuum]

It's not the words...it's the dates themselves, about 2011 years ago Jesus was crucified (supposedly). People will continue to wonder why the calender only says a few thousand years when the earth is 4.5 billions years old and humans have been here for hundreds of thousands of years.

Hm. You may be wrong, for it would lead to Year 0, or the Approximate birth of Christ.

It's purportedly made to be aligned on the birth of Christ by Pope Gregory XIII. The calendar count started just on the end of prehistory, when people began to have something to record their daily jerks and market visits. Hence, Advancement of Civilization brought upon human history.

[Peace God]

Hm. You may be wrong, for it would lead to Year 0, or the Approximate birth of Christ.
Ahh, that's true. It's the birth....i dont know why I thought it was the death.

[Continuum]

Ahh, that's true. It's the birth....i dont know why I thought it was the death.

That's only an approximate, though. People back then were total zealots. There was a report that the birth of Jesus was a few years before 0.

[Peace God]

That's only an approximate, though.
Like a lot of things in the Bible.

I cant say i'm surprised.

[Perseus]

We should drop BC & AD and start using BCE & CE (Before Common Era and Common Era), although really, is there any point? It may be Christian, but does it really matter that much? They're just words used to mark specific dates.


That's pointless since it's the same thing
Hm. You may be wrong, for it would lead to Year 0, or the Approximate birth of Christ.

It's purportedly made to be aligned on the birth of Christ by Pope Gregory XIII. The calendar count started just on the end of prehistory, when people began to have something to record their daily jerks and market visits. Hence, Advancement of Civilization brought upon human history.
It's believed he was born between 3 B.C. and 0 A.D.

[Sith Lord 13]

One point. There is no 0 AD. It goes 1 BC to 1 AD.

[Perseus]

One point. There is no 0 AD. It goes 1 BC to 1 AD.

Wha? There's a year 0. Don't be messing up history timelines. :P

[Continuum]

Wha? There's a year 0. Don't be messing up history timelines. :P

Hm. Good point. That means, Y2K was originally in 2001?! And Wikipedia says so too. O.o

[Sith Lord 13]

Hm. Good point. That means, Y2K was originally in 2001?! And Wikipedia says so too. O.o

Sort of. That's why New Years 2001 marked the beginning of the second millennium, not New Years 2000.

[Peace God]

Sort of. That's why New Years 2001 marked the beginning of the second millennium, not New Years 2000.
Why not just count 1 B.C. as the beginning of the millennium? If Jesus was born when he was supposed to be born, then the birth would have been in 1 B.C.

[Colour Fadeout]

As for the original topic, i don't think you can get around the whole notion that god played a part in it, for example if you say this universe was created from a massive implosion by a super massive quasar or something, then the christian rebuttle could just be, "Who created that universe?". And if scientists discover some sort of particle that we have so far not been able to detect, such as dark-matter (although we can detect it, it defys measurement and proper evaluation because it inverts the basic laws of physics deemed by us...) that could be responsible for the occupation of the super-dense point of origin and that had the ability to explode existence into a "non-existent" (our current definition of existence could be wrong) location, then christians could say god provided this irregular mass in order to create his universe. So either way could provided the framework.

I think religion is a long way away from collapsing.

[Continuum]

Why not just count 1 B.C. as the beginning of the millennium? If Jesus was born when he was supposed to be born, then the birth would have been in 1 B.C.

Yes, it makes sense that they approximated it between 0 and 3 BC.