Oh, The Irony

[deadpie]

I find it strange that most people that are pro life are for the death penalty.

Isn't that just a little hypocritical? I mean, who are you to say, "Well they had their chance and I guess they blew it!"

Debate / Fight W/ Picket Forks

[nick]

I'm not at all sure that its true, certainly not in the UK. I would expect most people that are pro-life to be against capital punishment (like me).

[Redheads Rule]

Yeah sure capital punishment is bad. The reason people pro-life might like it is because the less (evil) people there are the happier the world is?
Just i guess but it makes sense to me lol

[Death]

There are loads of hypocrites in this world. Why wouldn't we have pro-life and pro-death penalty people on top of all the others?

[Sage]

I think the notion of "pro-choice" and "pro-life" are stupid. Each stance should be called by more appropriate names: That being "anti-life" and "anti-choice."

[Korashk]

I find it strange that most people that are pro life are for the death penalty.

Isn't that just a little hypocritical?
No, not at all really. Unless you think that violent criminals deserving of the death death penalty are of equal worth to what the anti-choicers consider innoecnt infant humans.

I think the notion of "pro-choice" and "pro-life" are stupid. Each stance should be called by more appropriate names: That being "anti-life" and "anti-choice."
Except "anti-life" is not a synonym for "pro-choice." For example, I'm "pro-choice" but I would personally not want a girl I accidentally impregnated to have an abortion.

[nick]

I think the notion of "pro-choice" and "pro-life" are stupid. Each stance should be called by more appropriate names: That being "anti-life" and "anti-choice."
I am pro-choice, I just think choice comes earlier in the process.

[Amnesiac]

It is pretty hypocritical. What's even more ironic is that many abortion protesters happily release personal information regarding local abortion doctors, some even go as far as threatening them with death. Also, these people oppose stem-cell research, which could lead to medical developments that could save thousands of lives. All at the price of one stem cell — that isn't even a baby yet.

[Korashk]

It is pretty hypocritical.
Explain? So to be against what they consider infanticide they must be against all killing?

[Amnesiac]

Explain? So to be against what they consider infanticide they must be against all killing?

Well, according to this:

Pro-life describes the political and ethical opposition to elective abortion, and support for its legal prohibition or restriction. Those involved in the pro-life movement generally maintain that human fetuses and, in most cases, embryos are persons, and therefore have a right to life.

Therefore, if they believe that fetuses have a right to life because they are people, why not criminals also? Are they not people?

[Korashk]

Therefore, if they believe that fetuses have a right to life because they are people, why not criminals also? Are they not people?
I'm pretty sure that's called strawmanning.

[Amnesiac]

I'm pretty sure that's called strawmanning.

I don't see any straw-manning going on here. If you believe in a "right to life", it can't just apply to one group.

[Korashk]

I don't see any straw-manning going on here. If you believe in a "right to life", it can't just apply to one group.
Why not?

[Amnesiac]

Why not?

Because the term "right to life" is essentially universal. It's the belief that all humans are endowed with the right to live, one that cannot be taken away by those in authority. It's not something that can really be split up into "these people have a right to life, but these other people don't," because that defeats the purpose, which is that every person should be able to live.

[Korashk]

Because the term "right to life" is essentially universal. It's the belief that all humans are endowed with the right to live, one that cannot be taken away by those in authority. It's not something that can really be split up into "these people have a right to life, but these other people don't," because that defeats the purpose, which is that every person should be able to live.
You're using a less specific phrase than I do. What you're talking about is an inalienable right to life. I believe that people have an initial right to life, but not an inalienable right to life.

Namely, all persons who don't kill other persons have a right to life.

It's a very dumbed down version of it, but you get my point.

[Sage]

Except "anti-life" is not a synonym for "pro-choice." For example, I'm "pro-choice" but I would personally not want a girl I accidentally impregnated to have an abortion.

Oh. I just hate infants.

[Amnesiac]

You're using a less specific phrase than I do. What you're talking about is an inalienable right to life. I believe that people have an initial right to life, but not an inalienable right to life.

Namely, all persons who don't kill other persons have a right to life.

It's a very dumbed down version of it, but you get my point.

Oh, well I'm using the definition described here (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Charter_of_Fundamental_Rights_of_the_European_Union#CHAPTER_I._DIGNITY).

[deadpie]

It is pretty hypocritical. What's even more ironic is that many abortion protesters happily release personal information regarding local abortion doctors, some even go as far as threatening them with death. Also, these people oppose stem-cell research, which could lead to medical developments that could save thousands of lives. All at the price of one stem cell — that isn't even a baby yet.

Last year in Kansas an abortion doctor was shot and killed by a man who served at a church. 2007 in Austin Texas a man named Paul Evans left a packaged bomb in a woman's health clinic. In Virginia that same year someone tried to light fire to a planned parenthood.

Then you have the "Army Of God" cult who was known for it's bombings to health clinics in the US. Here is a quote from a following member -

whatever force is legitimate to defend the life of a born child is legitimate to defend the life of an unborn child... if in fact Paul Hill did kill or wound abortionist John Britton, and accomplices James Barrett and Mrs. Barrett, his actions are morally justified if they were necessary for the purpose of defending innocent human life.


Sources:
1 (http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2007/fall/anti-abortion-violence)
2 (http://www.kansas.com/2009/06/01/834444/suspect-in-shooting-death-of-abortion.html)

[Korashk]

Oh, well I'm using the definition described here (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Charter_of_Fundamental_Rights_of_the_European_Union#CHAPTER_I._DIGNITY).
Same definition I use with the added qualifier that the right in inalienable. Not using those exact terms, but the qualifier is there.

[Sogeking]

that isn't even a baby yet. When the sperm get together with the egg, it is technically a human

[Amnesiac]

When the sperm get together with the egg, it is technically a human

That's the kind of opinion that's dominated abortion debate for decades. Personally, I don't thing sperm fertilizing an egg instantly results in a human.

[Sogeking]

That's the kind of opinion that's dominated abortion debate for decades. Personally, I don't thing sperm fertilizing an egg instantly results in a human. Im curious, when do you think an embryo has a right to life?

[Amnesiac]

Im curious, when do you think an embryo has a right to life?

When it has reached the development stage, or is close to that stage, where it is capable of living outside the womb.

[Korashk]

Im curious, when do you think an embryo has a right to life?
When you can cut it out of the mother without it dying.

EDIT: Things that aren't alive can't have the "right to life" and until the above is possible it isn't alive.

[Sugaree]

I find it strange that most people that are pro life are for the death penalty.

Did you ever notice that people who are pro-life are people you wouldn't want to fuck anyway?

I personally have nothing against abortion or the death penalty. However, I do find a problem with people and the death penalty. Someone around my area gets robbed, people here are calling for their head on a silver platter. The death penalty needs to be used in only the most extreme of crimes, not something petty like one homicide.

[Sogeking]

When you can cut it out of the mother without it dying.

EDIT: Things that aren't alive can't have the "right to life" and until the above is possible it isn't alive. With that kind logic, it is sort of like people that are on life support dont deserve a right to live because they lack the essential organs to live.

[Korashk]

With that kind logic, it is sort of like people that are on life support dont deserve a right to live because they lack the essential organs to live.
The difference is that said person on life support is alive. Just broken. They display all the characteristics of life when not broken. A fetus doesn't; when in perfect condition a fetus is not a living thing.