95% of Marines uncomfortable serving with openly gay troops

[Solace]

Wow, this is shocking, so much for LGBT rights in the military. Despite this, I still believe they should repeal the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, what are your thoughts on this?

WASHINGTON -- As many as 95 percent of Marines would be uncomfortable serving alongside openly gay troops, the retiring commandant of the Marine Corps told Fox News in an exclusive interview.
Gen. James Conway told Fox News' Jennifer Griffin that a majority of his men and women think a repeal of the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy barring gays from serving openly will be problematic, so he has to believe that, too.

"When we take a survey of our Marines, by and large, they say that they are concerned that it will cause potential problems with regard to their order and discipline -- that it will impact their sense of unit cohesion," Conway said.

Gen. Conway was the first member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to speak out against a repeal earlier this year after Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Joint Chiefs Chairman Admiral Mike Mullen publicly endorsed President Obama's desire to change the law.

Conway plans to retire Oct. 22 after 40 years of service with the Marines. He's only the second Marines chief ever to serve his entire tenure as commandant during wartime.

And wartime, he said, is "probably not the time" to change the military's policy on gays.

Right now, there are 20,000 Marines serving in Afghanistan. Conway told Fox he "wouldn't hazard a guess" as to how many are gay, but he think it's a small percentage, in the "low single digits."

Conway says these few gays don't cause a problem now because their homosexuality is not known publicly. But he said if their sexuality does become public, "90 to 95 percent of the Marines" he has informally surveyed are concerned about the consequences. Conway cited impromptu surveys he has conducted by a "show of hands" among Marines at town hall style meetings.

Late Thursday, Obama's Justice Department requested that California U.S. District Judge Virginia Phillips allow the military to continue enforcing the gay ban during the appeal of her landmark ruling Tuesday, which declared the law unconstitutional.

The move amounted to an admission from the White House that they would not let this policy be legislated in the courts, that it had to be decided by Congress. Congress has failed once already this year to pass a change the law, even with a majority of Democrats in both houses and with public opinion polls that slant heavily toward a repeal.

Gen. Conway agrees that only the Congress should have that ability. "I think that the Congress represents the will of the people," he said. "And we are a nation of laws. The military abides by the laws. And I think we would be much more comfortable, if it's going to change, it comes as a result of the change to the law, not an independent judicial determination in a district somewhere in California."

Meanwhile the military finds itself in the awkward position of having to abide by an injunction that calls on the government "immediately to suspend or discontinue any investigation or discharge, separation or other proceeding that may have been commenced under "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

Conway says this unfortunately creates "an element of uncertainty" among commanders in the field about how they should handle existing cases.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10/15/retiring-marines-chief-warns-uncomfortable-serving-openly-gay-troops/

[Amnesiac]

Fox News?

I doubt the authenticity of this report.

[Whisper]

Fox? BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Sugaree]

>faux noise

Reliable sauce only kthxbai.

[The Joker]

Fox News?

I doubt the authenticity of this report.

And note that the guys survey was conducted by a "show of hands"

[Sage]

True or not, the idea that a bunch of tough soldiers who get sent out to some of the most dangerous places on earth are scared of some plain old gay guys makes me question just how courageous they really are.

[Amnesiac]

And note that the guys survey was

Okay, now I know this is bullshit.

[Sith Lord 13]

Okay, now I know this is bullshit.

Number is bullshit, generality is not. I trust the man's opinion of the feeling, even if he was stupid enough to pull a number out of his ass.

[Lights]

True or not, the idea that a bunch of tough soldiers who get sent out to some of the most dangerous places on earth are scared of some plain old gay guys makes me question just how courageous they really are.

I concur.
It's all so prejudice and unjust. Everyone deserves the right to be open about whom they are. It's a very trapping feeling to have to hide your sexuality, and if these soldiers are as honourable as we think they are, they won't have any problem with homosexual colleagues. Maybe our judgement of these 'honourable' soldiers is clouded and uncertain.
95% seems too much, and judging that it came from FOX, it's likely to be untrue; nonetheless however, homophobia should never be tolerated.

[Amnesiac]

Number is bullshit, generality is not. I trust the man's opinion of the feeling, even if he was stupid enough to pull a number out of his ass.

I wouldn't be surprised if the percentage was that high. However, an informal study done by a show of hands is no basis for a reliable news article.

[Sith Lord 13]

I wouldn't be surprised if the percentage was that high. However, an informal study done by a show of hands is no basis for a reliable news article.

No, but a high ranking military official putting forward this view is.

[Amnesiac]

No, but a high ranking military official putting forward this view is.

So why didn't they title it "High ranking military official suggest majority of Marines uncomfortable serving openly with gays"?

[Sith Lord 13]

So why didn't they title it "High ranking military official suggest majority of Marines uncomfortable serving openly with gays"?

They did.

Marines Chief Warns Most Are Uncomfortable Serving With Openly Gay Troops

Thread title was made by OP.

[Azunite]

They may also be uncomfortable because gay men are (sometimes) physically weaker than straight men. They may not act the way they should in a tough fight.
(Dont ask resources, I am sure many people know that gay people are a bit softer than straight men, no offense )

[The Dark Lord]

They may also be uncomfortable because gay men are (sometimes) physically weaker than straight men. They may not act the way they should in a tough fight.
(Dont ask resources, I am sure many people know that gay people are a bit softer than straight men, no offense )

That's just nonsense. That is just sterotypical and homophobic. You tell us not to ask for a source, presumably because their isn't one, this is just ridiculous. There is no correlation between strength and homosexuality. Women are sterotypically weaker than men but they still serve in the army.

[CairAndros]

They may also be uncomfortable because gay men are (sometimes) physically weaker than straight men. They may not act the way they should in a tough fight.
(Dont ask resources, I am sure many people know that gay people are a bit softer than straight men, no offense )

I must ask if good sense had left you when you posted this as you are, to put it simply, speaking out of your a**e. How can you claim this? You get men, who are gay, who are nothing but muscle and you get straight men who struggle to lift the weight lifting bar without any weights on it.

[ShatteredWings]

Clearly the marines aren't most of the military

Most Troops Wouldn't Oppose Serving With Gay Troops, Survey Finds (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/28/AR2010102807669.html)

Let's remember this IS fox we're talking about.

[Azunite]

Sorry but I rarely see a gay man having a muscular body.

[The Dark Lord]

Sorry but I have never seen a gay man having a muscular body.

Are being serious? I've never seen Barack Obama but I'm pretty sure he's black. You are incredibly naive if you think that all gay men are weak and have no muscles. It is completely offensive to the gay members of VT who are all being tranded with the same brush. You don't like it when people say all muslims are terrorists, and yet you say all gays are weak.

[CairAndros]

Sorry but I have never seen a gay man having a muscular body.

Just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. As far as I am aware homosexuality is condemned in the Qur'an - therefore in Turkey; which is mostly of the Islamic faith(97-98% of people); it would be very hard for a homosexual man to be openly so. Which would therefore bring us to why you haven't seen a homosexual man. Although I would wager that you have and you just haven't recognized him.

[Azunite]

Just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. As far as I am aware homosexuality is condemned in the Qur'an - therefore in Turkey; which is mostly of the Islamic faith(97-98% of people); it would be very hard for a homosexual man to be openly so. Which would therefore bring us to why you haven't seen a homosexual man. Although I would wager that you have and you just haven't recognized him.

Are you implying I have never seen a homosexual man?

And Matthew, as I have said , " some gay people "

[CairAndros]

That is indeed what I am implying.

Secondly; you might have said 'some' in your first post. But you then said "I have never seen a gay man with a muscular body" That is a categoric statement that you are using to back up your argument that Gay men do not have muscular bodies.

[Azunite]

That is indeed what I am implying.

Secondly; you might have said 'some' in your first post. But you then said "I have never seen a gay man with a muscular body" That is a categoric statement that you are using to back up your argument that Gay men do not have muscular bodies.

If you please go back to my first post you would see that I said some.
Second, there are openly gay people on the streets. Plus, I went to america 4times, went to Germany, France and Austria countless times, so yes I have seen so many gay people.

[CairAndros]

Then you must have seen gay people with muscles.

If you would know anything about Gay Culture then you would know that there is an entire section that love the idea of 'big muscled hunks' as partners. Therefore you get muscular gay people.

[Azunite]

All I am saying is that some gay people lack the phyiscal strength compared to the ones in military.
I am not homophobic, in fact I have 2 gay friends in my school ( most of the people dont know they are gay ) but I would also feel uncomfortable If I had a gay soldier beside me.

This is going off topic

[CairAndros]

It is not going off topic. It is perfectly on topic.

Secondly; you get straight soldiers who are weaker than their counterparts.

Why would you feel uncomfortable with a gay soldier serving with you?

[Ender]

Sorry but I rarely see a gay man having a muscular body.

All the marines go through the same training and pass the same physical standards. But now because a few are openly gay, the troops are physically weak because they have "weak and soft homosexuals" in them.

Think before you post.

[Azunite]

I was talking about the Mariner perspective ( since we are taling about a huge 95% )

And they may be uncomfortbale because there is someone there who likes men, and they may fear that those gay soldiers may hit on them, things like that... You know what I mean

[Azunite]

All the marines go through the same training and pass the same physical standards. But now because a few are openly gay, the troops are physically weak because they have "weak and soft homosexuals" in them.Think before you post.

Uhh, you say what I have said

[Ender]

I was talking about the Mariner perspective ( since we are taling about a huge 95% )

And they may be uncomfortbale because there is someone there who likes men, and they may fear that those gay soldiers may hit on them, things like that... You know what I mean

And that is whats wrong with society. Because I'm gay i suddenly have to like every man I see?

In Iraq/Afghanistan i believe they are too busy focusing on war right now. I actually find it quite ridiculous that this rule was ever in place and also that we wait until now, while we're in war, to make a big deal about it when they should be focusing on other, more important things.

Uhh, you say what I have said

No, im saying that what you said makes no sense whatsoever...

[Azunite]

But come on, gay talk and straight men talk are diffrent from each other.
Straight soldiers will talk and fantasize about woman, what will the others do ?
And yes you dont have to like every male if you are gay but you could just start hitting on other soldiers

[CairAndros]

I was talking about the Mariner perspective ( since we are taling about a huge 95% )

And they may be uncomfortbale because there is someone there who likes men, and they may fear that those gay soldiers may hit on them, things like that... You know what I mean

Do your gay friends hit on you? I have several gay/bi friends and not once have they 'hit on me'. I would say, despite your previous claims, that you are indeed homophobic as you are coming out with all of the homophobic stereotypes.

[Fiction]

I think that the marines should just deal with the fact they are gay. I think that the "don't ask, don't tell" thing should be scrapped. It's only making the difference between the straight and the gay marines further. They might find fighting along gays weird at first but they'd get over it in the end, but only if they are exposed to it, which they aren't at the moment.

[CairAndros]

At the end of the day they are all out on the frontlines, facing the same dangers. Both are risking their lives for their country. And im pretty sure that the last thing on the mind of a gay marine in the middle of battle is "that guy looks hot" or "id do him"

[Ender]

At the end of the day they are all out on the frontlines, facing the same dangers. Both are risking their lives for their country. And im pretty sure that the last thing on the mind of a gay marine in the middle of battle is "that guy looks hot" or "id do him"

Exactly what i'm trying to say! Why the FUCK does it matter is he/she is openly homosexual or not... who cares? Seriously.

[Azunite]

Do your gay friends hit on you? I have several gay/bi friends and not once have they 'hit on me'. I would say, despite your previous claims, that you are indeed homophobic as you are coming out with all of the homophobic stereotypes.

My gay friends dont hit on me, do you hit on every girl you see ? But a gay soldier can find another mariner attractive and hit on him

Exactly what i'm trying to say! Why the FUCK does it matter is he/she is openly homosexual or not... who cares? Seriously.


And for the zillionth time, I am not homophobic. I am talking through a mariner's perspective here.

[The Dark Lord]

All I am saying is that some gay people lack the phyiscal strength compared to the ones in military


you are aware of the physical tests marines are put through before they are considered fit for duty?

I am not homophobic, in fact I have 2 gay friends in my school ( most of the people dont know they are gay ) but I would also feel uncomfortable If I had a gay soldier beside me.


This contradicts

But come on, gay talk and straight men talk are diffrent from each other.
Straight soldiers will talk and fantasize about woman, what will the others do ?

Yeah, this I agree with, straight men talk about body building and sports, whereas gay men told about cocks and fashion. I presume if straight soldiers began talking about women, the gay soldiers would either join in or talk to someone else, similarly to the way most people handle a conservation they are uncomforable with

And yes you dont have to like every male if you are gay but you could just start hitting on other soldiers

Yeah that also concerns me, if I was a soldier under fire in Afganistan, my greatest concern would be if one of my fellow soldiers was going to shove my dick up my arse or not

My gay friends dont hit on me, do you hit on every girl you see ? But a gay soldier can find another mariner attractive and hit on him.

What if a female soldier finds a male soldier attractive? should women be banned from the army? What if a white soldier hates black people? should black people be banned from the army?

And for the zillionth time, I am not homophobic. I am talking through a mariner's perspective here.

You have spent your afternoon sprouting homophobic nonsense, either you are lying or you don't know what homophobic means. I appreciate that you are trying to see it from a marine's perspective but I question the figure of 95% in the first place

[CairAndros]

And for the zillionth time, I am not homophobic. I am talking through a mariner's perspective here.

Simple english lesson for you here; a MARINER is a sailor. A MARINE is a sea-based soldier. Therefore; you are not talking from a Marine's perspective. Secondly; You are basing your argument on one source - from a news company whose reputation is not the best.

[Azunite]

Simple english lesson for you here; a MARINER is a sailor. A MARINE is a sea-based soldier. Therefore; you are not talking from a Marine's perspective. Secondly; You are basing your argument on one source - from a news company whose reputation is not the best.

I haven't even properly read the article. If someone would have said "Marines dont like gay soldiers" to me, without telling any resources I wouldn't get surprised.

[Raptor22]

Fox News?

I doubt the authenticity of this report.

Fox? BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>faux noise

Reliable sauce only kthxbai.

And note that the guys survey was

How did Fox News make anything up? Just to play devils advocate, the only thing they were reporting was that one Commandant dude's statements... :P

[CairAndros]

I haven't even properly read the article. If someone would have said "Marines dont like gay soldiers" to me, without telling any resources I wouldn't get surprised.

Right; you are basing your whole argument on a supposition? An assumption that marines wouldn't want to serve with gay counterparts. They have been serving with them for DECADES. It just hasn't been PUBLIC before. Hence the whole DONT ASK DONT TELL SYSTEM.

If you are going to argue a point at the very least have the common sense to READ whatever article or source that you are basing your argument on.

With that comment all you have done is make a total fool of yourself.

[Perseus]

How did Fox News make anything up?

All news sources fabricate lies, but you know Fox News does the most. :P

[Azunite]

Right; you are basing your whole argument on a supposition? An assumption that marines wouldn't want to serve with gay counterparts. They have been serving with them for DECADES. It just hasn't been PUBLIC before. Hence the whole DONT ASK DONT TELL SYSTEM.

If you are going to argue a point at the very least have the common sense to READ whatever article or source that you are basing your argument on.

With that comment all you have done is make a total fool of yourself.

It is YOU who acts foolish !

I have READ the article, just because you started moaning " Fox isn't reliable " I had to cut short the thing.
You guys just blame the source when you don't agree.

Look, it's the marines who fight. If they dont like gay soldiers beside them then we shouldnt talk about it. They are the fighters not us

[CairAndros]

You claim you haven't read the article in one post then you claim you have in another.

Come back when you can keep a straight story.

[Sith Lord 13]

All news sources fabricate lies, but you know Fox News does the most. :P

If you care to back that up instead of just stating baseless slander, perhaps a real discussion of validity could occur.

[Perseus]

If you care to back that up instead of just stating baseless slander, perhaps a real discussion of validity could occur.

You find Fox News a reliable source? And I'm not trying to have a real discussion; I was just joking with him.

[Sith Lord 13]

You find Fox News a reliable source? And I'm not trying to have a real discussion; I was just joking with him.

I find them as reliable as any other news source. The only difference is that they slant to the right as opposed to the left.

[Perseus]

I find them as reliable as any other news source. The only difference is that they slant to the right as opposed to the left.

I couldn't find any real sources, but you could look at these if you want to.

http://www.umich.edu/~newsbias/institutional.html
http://www.openeducation.net/2008/06/10/district-judge-rules-fox-news-gullible-and-unprofessional/
When it comes to my news sources, they're the last on my radar. I usually use MSN since it's my homepage, but I know that he has left bias sometimes, but it is nothing like Fox News. FN is a joke.

[Amnesiac]

I couldn't find any real sources, but you could look at these if you want to.

http://www.umich.edu/~newsbias/institutional.html
http://www.openeducation.net/2008/06/10/district-judge-rules-fox-news-gullible-and-unprofessional/
When it comes to my news sources, they're the last on my radar. I usually use MSN since it's my homepage, but I know that he has left bias sometimes, but it is nothing like Fox News. FN is a joke.

There's this guy on YouTube, LiberalViewer (http://www.youtube.com/user/liberalviewer?blend=1&ob=4), who analyzes Fox News reports for bias. You guys might be interested in his findings.

[Perseus]

There's this guy on YouTube, LiberalViewer (http://www.youtube.com/user/liberalviewer?blend=1&ob=4), who analyzes Fox News reports for bias. You guys might be interested in his findings.

His credibility is lost since he's left. Sorry. He's going to blow things out of proportion.

[Amnesiac]

His credibility is lost since he's left. Sorry. He's going to blow things out of proportion.

The word "liberal" in his username, according to him, doesn't mean politically liberal.

[Perseus]

The word "liberal" in his username, according to him, doesn't mean politically liberal.

Meh, I believe what you say.

[Raptor22]

All news sources fabricate lies, but you know Fox News does the most. :P

No they dont:

Like for instance this screenshot of MSNBC:

http://www.johnnyproctor.com/amy/palinhouses.jpg

"How many houses does she add to the Republican ticket?" Who cares? When they asked John McCain how many houses he owns and he couldnt answer, its not because hes a rich prick like they tried to label him. His father in law was head of Anheuser-Busch and was very wealthy, so when he died, John McCain's wife inherited the properties. So how does John McCain answer the question? Does he answer how many he personally owns? How many him and his wife own together? How many his wife owns herself? And then for MSNBC to jump on the "how many houses" bandwagon when Sarah Palin joined the ticket is ridiculous and irrelevant.

Then theres this site about media bias:

http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberalerts/2009/cyb20090224.asp

[Church]

I dont know why people make such a big deal on personal opinions, if Marines dont wanna serve with gays they dont wanna serve with gays. Thats that. Dont ask dont tell is there for a reason, abide by it. Personally I'm joining the Air Force after I graduate high school and I wouldn't feel comfortable serving with gays.

[Ender]

I dont know why people make such a big deal on personal opinions, if Marines dont wanna serve with gays they dont wanna serve with gays. Thats that. Dont ask dont tell is there for a reason, abide by it. Personally I'm joining the Air Force after I graduate high school and I wouldn't feel comfortable serving with gays.

Yet you're comfortable here, on a site full of them?

[Perseus]

Personally I'm joining the Air Force after I graduate high school and I wouldn't feel comfortable serving with gays.

What the fuck? What does their emotional affection for someone change who they are? How does being gay affect your ability as a soldier. Gay people don't go around butt fucking straight people, nor do they go around butt fucking other guys. Straight people are the ones who rape, not gays. You sir a bigot who doesn't want to admit it. "Hurr, it's uncomfortable to be in a plane with a gay dude. HURR."

[Sage]

I dont know why people make such a big deal on personal opinions, if Marines dont wanna serve with gays they dont wanna serve with gays. Thats that. Dont ask dont tell is there for a reason, abide by it. Personally I'm joining the Air Force after I graduate high school and I wouldn't feel comfortable serving with gays.

I dont know why people make such a big deal on personal opinions, if Marines dont wanna serve with black people they dont wanna serve with black people. Thats that. Dont ask dont tell is there for a reason, abide by it. Personally I'm joining the Air Force after I graduate high school and I wouldn't feel comfortable serving with black people.

[Sith Lord 13]

Straight people are the ones who rape, not gays.

Biggest piece of bullshit inside an otherwise well written post. People rape people. Men rape men, men rap women, women rape men, women rape women. Rape is a crime that knows neither gender nor orientation.

[Raptor22]

Biggest piece of bullshit inside an otherwise well written post. People rape people. Men rape men, men rap women, women rape men, women rape women. Rape is a crime that knows neither gender nor orientation.

Like the dude breaking into guys houses in Detroit and raping them at gunpoint...

I dont really get it, he could just turn himself in and he would get it consentingly inside prison... :P

[The Dark Lord]

I dont know why people make such a big deal on personal opinions, if Marines dont wanna serve with gays they dont wanna serve with gays. Thats that. Dont ask dont tell is there for a reason, abide by it. Personally I'm joining the Air Force after I graduate high school and I wouldn't feel comfortable serving with gays.

Why do you go VT, which has a large gay population?

[Perseus]

Biggest piece of bullshit inside an otherwise well written post. People rape people. Men rape men, men rap women, women rape men, women rape women. Rape is a crime that knows neither gender nor orientation.

Uh, since when do you hear about gay people raping people? It's not as common as straight is what I was saying, but I didn't make that clear. I knew someone was going to say something.

[Raptor22]

Like the dude breaking into guys houses in Detroit and raping them at gunpoint...

I dont really get it, he could just turn himself in and he would get it consentingly inside prison... :P

Uh, since when do you hear about gay people raping people? It's not as common as straight is what I was saying, but I didn't make that clear. I knew someone was going to say something.

Read my post...

I'm sure I could find something on it if you would like me to....

[Perseus]

Read my post...

I'm sure I could find something on it if you would like me to....

That doesn't make them gay. That says they want physical pleasure. I doubt the majority of them would date a guy, live with a guy, love a guy, etc.

[Raptor22]

That doesn't make them gay. That says they want physical pleasure. I doubt the majority of them would date a guy, live with a guy, love a guy, etc.

Then why wouldnt they rape women? If all they wanted was sex with guys, they could just go to prison... :P

[Perseus]

Then why wouldnt they rape women? If all they wanted was sex with guys, they could just go to prison... :P

You obviously don't understand what I'm saying. They are in prison. They want to have an orgasm. What do they do? They sodomize other guys. That doesn't make them gay.

[Raptor22]

You obviously don't understand what I'm saying. They are in prison. They want to have an orgasm. What do they do? They sodomize other guys. That doesn't make them gay.

True, I thought you were saying that the gay rapist dude wasnt gay... :P