Legalizing hard drugs

[ShyGuyInChicago]

There is a very good case for legalizing marijuana for recreational use since it is less dangerous than alcohol and tobacco. However, is not legalizing harmful drugs an acceptable double standard? It can be argued that no drugs should be illegal because people should have the right to do whatever they want to their own bodies. While I understand that, I disagree because I feel that I cannot in good conscience give somebody something that has a high probability of making them unhealthy, and it is unethical to give somebody something harmful. A counter argument is that drug-related violence could end if drugs were legal


http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/24/miron.legalization.drugs/index.html

CAMBRIDGE, Massachusetts (CNN) -- Over the past two years, drug violence in Mexico has become a fixture of the daily news. Some of this violence pits drug cartels against one another; some involves confrontations between law enforcement and traffickers.

Recent estimates suggest thousands have lost their lives in this "war on drugs."

The U.S. and Mexican responses to this violence have been predictable: more troops and police, greater border controls and expanded enforcement of every kind. Escalation is the wrong response, however; drug prohibition is the cause of the violence.

Prohibition creates violence because it drives the drug market underground. This means buyers and sellers cannot resolve their disputes with lawsuits, arbitration or advertising, so they resort to violence instead.

Violence was common in the alcohol industry when it was banned during Prohibition, but not before or after.

Violence is the norm in illicit gambling markets but not in legal ones. Violence is routine when prostitution is banned but not when it's permitted. Violence results from policies that create black markets, not from the characteristics of the good or activity in question.

The only way to reduce violence, therefore, is to legalize drugs. Fortuitously, legalization is the right policy for a slew of other reasons.

Prohibition of drugs corrupts politicians and law enforcement by putting police, prosecutors, judges and politicians in the position to threaten the profits of an illicit trade. This is why bribery, threats and kidnapping are common for prohibited industries but rare otherwise. Mexico's recent history illustrates this dramatically.

Prohibition erodes protections against unreasonable search and seizure because neither party to a drug transaction has an incentive to report the activity to the police. Thus, enforcement requires intrusive tactics such as warrantless searches or undercover buys. The victimless nature of this so-called crime also encourages police to engage in racial profiling.

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Prohibition has disastrous implications for national security. By eradicating coca plants in Colombia or poppy fields in Afghanistan, prohibition breeds resentment of the United States. By enriching those who produce and supply drugs, prohibition supports terrorists who sell protection services to drug traffickers.

Prohibition harms the public health. Patients suffering from cancer, glaucoma and other conditions cannot use marijuana under the laws of most states or the federal government despite abundant evidence of its efficacy. Terminally ill patients cannot always get adequate pain medication because doctors may fear prosecution by the Drug Enforcement Administration.

Drug users face restrictions on clean syringes that cause them to share contaminated needles, thereby spreading HIV, hepatitis and other blood-borne diseases.

Prohibitions breed disrespect for the law because despite draconian penalties and extensive enforcement, huge numbers of people still violate prohibition. This means those who break the law, and those who do not, learn that obeying laws is for suckers.

Prohibition is a drain on the public purse. Federal, state and local governments spend roughly $44 billion per year to enforce drug prohibition. These same governments forego roughly $33 billion per year in tax revenue they could collect from legalized drugs, assuming these were taxed at rates similar to those on alcohol and tobacco. Under prohibition, these revenues accrue to traffickers as increased profits.

The right policy, therefore, is to legalize drugs while using regulation and taxation to dampen irresponsible behavior related to drug use, such as driving under the influence. This makes more sense than prohibition because it avoids creation of a black market. This approach also allows those who believe they benefit from drug use to do so, as long as they do not harm others. iReport.com: Do you think it's time to legalize marijuana?

Legalization is desirable for all drugs, not just marijuana. The health risks of marijuana are lower than those of many other drugs, but that is not the crucial issue. Much of the traffic from Mexico or Colombia is for cocaine, heroin and other drugs, while marijuana production is increasingly domestic. Legalizing only marijuana would therefore fail to achieve many benefits of broader legalization.

It is impossible to reconcile respect for individual liberty with drug prohibition. The U.S. has been at the forefront of this puritanical policy for almost a century, with disastrous consequences at home and abroad.

The U.S. repealed Prohibition of alcohol at the height of the Great Depression, in part because of increasing violence and in part because of diminishing tax revenues. Similar concerns apply today, and Attorney General Eric Holder's recent announcement that the Drug Enforcement Administration will not raid medical marijuana distributors in California suggests an openness in the Obama administration to rethinking current practice.

Perhaps history will repeat itself, and the U.S. will abandon one of its most disastrous policy experiments.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/31/cafferty.legal.drugs/index.html

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Here's something to think about:

How many police officers and sheriff's deputies are involved in investigating and solving crimes involving illegal drugs? And arresting and transporting and interrogating and jailing the suspects?

How many prosecutors and their staffs spend time prosecuting drug cases? How many defense lawyers spend their time defending drug suspects?

How many hours of courtroom time are devoted to drug trials? How many judges, bailiffs, courtroom security officers, stenographers, etc., spend their time on drug trials?

How many prison cells are filled with drug offenders? And how many corrections officers does it take to guard them? How much food do these convicts consume?

And when they get out, how many parole and probation officers does it take to supervise their release? And how many ex-offenders turn right around and do it again?

So how's this war on drugs going?

Someone described insanity as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result each time. That's a perfect description of the war on drugs.

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The United States is the largest illegal drug market in the world. Americans want their weed, crack, cocaine, heroin, whatever. And they're willing to pay big money to get it.

The drug suppliers are only too happy to oblige. The Mexican drug cartels now have operations in 230 American cities. That's 230 American cities!

And we're not just talking about border towns, but places such as Anchorage, Alaska; Boston, Massachusetts; Atlanta, Georgia; and Billings, Montana. They're everywhere. And they don't just bring drugs, but violence and crime as well -- lots of it at no extra charge.

They have been able to infiltrate those 230 cities because we have not bothered to secure our borders. In addition to illegal aliens who come here to work and avail themselves of our social programs, we have criminals from Mexico bringing drugs in, taking money and guns back, and recruiting American kids into their criminal enterprises while they're here. iReport.com: Is it time to legalize pot?

What do you suppose the total price tag is for this failed war on drugs? One senior Harvard economist estimates we spend $44 billion a year fighting the war on drugs. He says if they were legal, governments would realize about $33 billion a year in tax revenue. Net swing of $77 billion. Could we use that money today for something else? You bet your ass we could. Plus the cartels would be out of business. Instantly. Goodbye crime and violence.

If drugs were legalized, we could empty out a lot of our prison cells. People will use this stuff whether it's legal or not. Just like they do booze. And you could make the argument that in some cases alcohol is just as dangerous as some drugs. I know.

Like I said ... something to think about. It's time.

What are your opinions?

[TopGear]

Well Im a republican that Wishes one day to see the legalization of marijuana. Personally have not used marijuana before and most likely won't in the future. But I do support the idea of legalization of marijuana for many purposes.

One, I think marijuana is just like anything that is legal today, It's addictive, gives you that warm-good feeling inside (discription that friends have given) and also can be dangerous. I see marijuana and alcohol all on the same level. You go to work drunk, what happens? You most likely going to be fired, same case for going to work high. What happens when you drink and drive? There is a chance of getting caught and you are going to jail for DUI, Same as driving high.

second, It would take SOOO many "criminals" out of the jails/prisons that are packed today for simple drug charges. I don't know the hard facts or numbers but Im sure that the number of inmates would go down after the legalization of marijuana.

Third, I see it as $$$MONEY$$$!!!! This stuff is in such a demand that people that currently grow marijuana legally for medical purposes are making from 85,000 - 110,000 dollars a year in salary. I don't think legalization of marijuana is going to pull the united states out of our economic down turn but I do think it would change things for the better.

Now I do realize that when this day does come and marijuana does become a legal drug for normal everyday use, There will be an increase of deaths among OD's, idiots that try to drive while STONED, and other things but after the first month or so I believe it would level out. I also think it wouldn't be so much of a thing to do because it's not illegal, the feeling of OMG we could get caught is gone, so those dare devils wouldn't be there anymore.

With all that said, I do think that marijuana is the only drug that I would want to see legalized. Due to the fact that its a plant that grows on the great green earth of ours and it is far more safe then cigarettes.

[ShyGuyInChicago]

Well Im a republican that Wishes one day to see the legalization of marijuana. Personally have not used marijuana before and most likely won't in the future. But I do support the idea of legalization of marijuana for many purposes.

One, I think marijuana is just like anything that is legal today, It's addictive, gives you that warm-good feeling inside (discription that friends have given) and also can be dangerous. I see marijuana and alcohol all on the same level. You go to work drunk, what happens? You most likely going to be fired, same case for going to work high. What happens when you drink and drive? There is a chance of getting caught and you are going to jail for DUI, Same as driving high.

second, It would take SOOO many "criminals" out of the jails/prisons that are packed today for simple drug charges. I don't know the hard facts or numbers but Im sure that the number of inmates would go down after the legalization of marijuana.

Third, I see it as $$$MONEY$$$!!!! This stuff is in such a demand that people that currently grow marijuana legally for medical purposes are making from 85,000 - 110,000 dollars a year in salary. I don't think legalization of marijuana is going to pull the united states out of our economic down turn but I do think it would change things for the better.

Now I do realize that when this day does come and marijuana does become a legal drug for normal everyday use, There will be an increase of deaths among OD's, idiots that try to drive while STONED, and other things but after the first month or so I believe it would level out. I also think it wouldn't be so much of a thing to do because it's not illegal, the feeling of OMG we could get caught is gone, so those dare devils wouldn't be there anymore.

With all that said, I do think that marijuana is the only drug that I would want to see legalized. Due to the fact that its a plant that grows on the great green earth of ours and it is far more safe then cigarettes.

How would you respond to those who say that it does not matter that drugs harder than marijuana such as crystal meth, heroin, and cocaine are dangerous because people should be able to put whatever they want in their bodies?

[Amnesiac]

How would you respond to those who say that it does not matter that drugs harder than marijuana such as crystal meth, heroin, and cocaine are dangerous because people should be able to put whatever they want in their bodies?

There should be a limit to what people can put in their bodies. I don't want to see people going insane, developing sicknesses and dying from doing these hard drugs — it's too extreme. If you really want to kill yourself, try and make euthanasia legal, as it should be.

[Sith Lord 13]

There should be a limit to what people can put in their bodies. I don't want to see people going insane, developing sicknesses and dying from doing these hard drugs — it's too extreme. If you really want to kill yourself, try and make euthanasia legal, as it should be.

If euthanasia is legal why should hard drugs be illegal?

[Peace God]

As ive said in other threads, i think all drugs should be legalized. Just legalizing weed doesnt end the problems associated with the war on drugs(in fact it wouldnt even come close)...drug related homocides, incarceration would still continue to increase. Plus, legalizing all drugs makes hard drugs a lot harder for minors to obtain.

[Amnesiac]

If euthanasia is legal why should hard drugs be illegal?

Hard drugs are more likely to result in internal injuries, including diseases. A person on hard drugs is less competent than ever, and addiction rates are disturbingly high. I don't think we want crazy blinded people walking the streets, addicted to crack or cocaine. Weed is mild, these other drugs aren't.

I'm going to refer to this chart again:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_(mean_physical_harm_and_mean_dependen ce).svg

I'm fine with legalizing everything in yellow. However, once you get up to heroin levels, it's just too extreme.

If you want to die, you should do it safely and painlessly. But that's another topic.

[TopGear]

Well heres the thing, messing with the other "Hard Drugs" like Justin said will cause bigger problems then they already are.

What is sad is that cigarettes (tobacco) is not even in the yellow, its in the orange which kinda scares me, because that itself is a legal drug

[huginnmuninn]

I'm fine with weed being legalized but other harmful drugs that can make people have no idea what they are doing, where thay are, or what they are seeing i object against because it could not only cause harm to the user but the user could seriously harm others if they dont know what they are doing

[ShyGuyInChicago]

I was watching a news discussion show and the host gave a possible solution to drug abuse and drug-related violence. All drugs should be legalized and then the money used investigating and prosecuting drug crimes could be spent on treating drug addicts so that they would have no need for drugs and then drugs would not be produced. that to me, while I wish it were possible that sounds very hard to believe that such a thing can happen.

[Peace God]

I don't think we want crazy blinded people walking the streets, addicted to crack or cocaine.
But this is already happening! In fact it's been going on for decades.
Come on down to your local inner-city and you'll see addicts in the streets at all times of the day.

[Amnesiac]

But this is already happening! In fact it's been going on for decades.
Come on down to your local inner-city and you'll see addicts in the streets at all times of the day.

Well, the system fails. We spend too much time cracking down on weed, a relatively harmless drug, and not enough time fighting the destructive substances that are cocaine and heroin.

[Peace God]

Well, the system fails.
Prohibition has never worked in the first place.

...not enough time fighting the destructive substances that are cocaine and heroin.
So continue to throw more money into the fire?... yeah that'll put it out :rolleyes:

[Amnesiac]

Prohibition has never worked in the first place.

So continue to throw more money into the fire?... yeah that'll put it out :rolleyes:

Hey, I'm don't like prohibiting things, but in some cases it has to be done. I'm not saying we should continue the failure that is the War on Drugs, different tactics have to be used (read: rehabilitation).

[ShyGuyInChicago]

Now I do realize that when this day does come and marijuana does become a legal drug for normal everyday use, There will be an increase of deaths among OD's, idiots that try to drive while STONED, and other things but after the first month or so I believe it would level out. I also think it wouldn't be so much of a thing to do because it's not illegal, the feeling of OMG we could get caught is gone, so those dare devils wouldn't be there anymore.



You can't OD on marijuana.

[Korashk]

Just going to correct a few things about this post:

It's addictive
Incorrect.

Now I do realize that when this day does come and marijuana does become a legal drug for normal everyday use, There will be an increase of deaths among OD's
No one has ever overdosed on pot, and I doubt that it's even physically possible. The lethal amount of pot is (iirc) three times your body weight. I could have that figure wrong, but I know it's a ridiculous amount that no person would ever smoke in one session.

With all that said, I do think that marijuana is the only drug that I would want to see legalized. Due to the fact that its a plant that grows on the great green earth of ours and it is far more safe then cigarettes.
For future reference you've just committed the appeal to nature fallacy
~~~

With that said, all drugs should be legal.

[TopGear]

Just going to correct a few things about this post:


Incorrect.

Yes, it actually is. Just because it's not physically addicting, doesn't me it's not mentally addicting. Countless studies show that marijuana is an addicting drug.


No one has ever overdosed on pot, and I doubt that it's even physically possible. The lethal amount of pot is (iirc) three times your body weight. I could have that figure wrong, but I know it's a ridiculous amount that no person would ever smoke in one session.

Ok I did look that up and your right.


For future reference you've just committed the appeal to nature fallacy

What is your point? Are any of the other drugs in there final state of matter purely grown on the earth?
~~~

With that said, all drugs should be legal.

Well I disagree, And I'm glad that all drugs are illegal, other than marijuana. And if that doesn't become legal, Whatever, but certain drugs shouldn't ever be legal.

Go to this site and please watch how Cocaine is made, and then please tell me that you would want this to be legal.

http://onemansblog.com/2006/11/24/how-cocaine-is-made/

[Korashk]

Yes, it actually is. Just because it's not physically addicting, doesn't me it's not mentally addicting. Countless studies show that marijuana is an addicting drug.
Big whoop, literally everything that exists is psychologically addicting. That fact shouldn't determine anything about something's legality.

What is your point?
This is a debating board and using logical fallacies in your arguments is something you should stop doing if you want to be taken seriously.
~~~

Well I disagree, And I'm glad that all drugs are illegal, other than marijuana. And if that doesn't become legal, Whatever, but certain drugs shouldn't ever be legal.
Why not? Drug users only harm themselves with the act of using drugs and harming others with their habit would still be illegal.

Go to this site and please watch how Cocaine is made, and then please tell me that you would want this to be legal.
Don't need to watch the video, and won't because I only get 450 MB of downloading a day and don't want to use it watching a video that won't change my position. I do want cocaine to be legal.

[TopGear]

Why not? Drug users only harm themselves with the act of using drugs and harming others with their habit would still be illegal.

false, When you do hard drugs. You don't just harm yourself. Hard drugs and makers contain lots of poisonous and very harsh chemicals.

for example, Cocaine:
-Powder cement
-ammonia (which if inhaled can knock you out) (also added twice)
-Quicklime (Calcium oxide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_oxide))
-Sulfuric Acid (added twice)
-Gasoline

Another example, Meth:
-Ephedrine (Cold Tablets)
-Pseudoephedrine (Cold Tablets)
-Acetone
-Alcohol (Isopropyl or Rubbing)
-Toluene (Brake Cleaner)
-Ether (Engine Starter)
-Sulfuric Acid (Drain Cleaner)
-Methanol/Alcohol (Gasoline Additives)
-Salt (Table/Rock)
-Lithium (Batteries)
-Anhydrous Ammonia (Farm Fertilizer)
-Sodium Hydroxide (Lye)
-Red Phosphorus (Matches/Road Flares)
-Muriatic Acid
-Iodine (Teat Dip or Flakes/Crystal)
-Trichloroethane (Dun Scrubber)
-Sodium Metal

Do you honestly think that is not going to harm someone else if someone came across this, such as a kid? Or what if they fuck up and mix two of the wrong things together? Not to long ago, In my town I live in a Meth house blew up, Not only did the meth user die, but his family of 5 did too, also He killed his two next door neighbors that where home too. So, yes Drug users don't just effect themselves.

[Korashk]

Do you honestly think that is not going to harm someone else if someone came across this, such as a kid? Or what if they fuck up and mix two of the wrong things together? Not to long ago, In my town I live in a Meth house blew up, Not only did the meth user die, but his family of 5 did too, also He killed his two next door neighbors that where home too. So, yes Drug users don't just effect themselves.
Why was the meth-head cooking crystal in his basement again?

Oh yes, I remember now. It's because hard drugs are illegal and if he gets caught he'll go to jail. If meth was a legal product he could have been cooking and selling it out of a business/warehouse where things would be safer and danger like that would be all but eliminated.

There's also the fact that nothing in the list you gave is an illegal product. Meaning that anyone can get them even without the intent to make drugs and the danger they present is still, well, present.

[TopGear]

Oh yes, I remember now. It's because hard drugs are illegal and if he gets caught he'll go to jail. If meth was a legal product he could have been cooking and selling it out of a business/warehouse where things would be safer and danger like that would be all but eliminated.

There's also the fact that nothing in the list you gave is an illegal product. Meaning that anyone can get them even without the intent to make drugs and the danger they present is still, well, present.

Doesn't matter where you cook it, its still a very dangerous process that when you let crack heads do the work, BOOM. It all goes up in flames. Thank god that they can't take it to a warehouse legally, because that would just give them more room to make bigger labs witch equals an even bigger explosion from the amounts of chemicals and explosive material used to make meth. Witch means putter even more people or building in danger.

You can't just think about yourself sometimes, I know thats a hard concept to understand sometimes, but with things like this, People who make meth should be locked up for the entire life for putting people in danger of what could be a horrible accident.

[Korashk]

Doesn't matter where you cook it, its still a very dangerous process that when you let crack heads do the work, BOOM.
The same is true with any mixing of dangerous chemicals, and if it were legal said crackhead could hire employees that AREN'T druggies to do the work for him. The point is that legalization would make the process a whole lot safer and provide jobs for people.

You can't just think about yourself sometimes, I know thats a hard concept to understand sometimes
I'm not "thinking about myself." I don't even do drugs.

People who make meth should be locked up for the entire life for putting people in danger of what could be a horrible accident.
People who make nuclear power plants should be locked up for the entire life for putting people in danger of what could be a horrible accident.

I could go on with more examples that are equally as ridiculous-sounding.

People who make [insert product with potentially dangerous manufacturing conditions] should be locked up for the entire life for putting people in danger of what could be a horrible accident.

Reductio ad Absurdum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum)

[TopGear]

The same is true with any mixing of dangerous chemicals, and if it were legal said crackhead could hire employees that AREN'T druggies to do the work for him. The point is that legalization would make the process a whole lot safer and provide jobs for people.

Just because something is legalized, doesn't make it safer. I rather have a higher unemployment rate then getting so desperate for jobs as to building drug factorys. Also you got to look at what other countries are going to see of this, We been fighting a very tough war against drugs for a very long time. Do you think its going to show a good picture if we just give up and let them have it the way they want it? HELL NO, that will show weaken in our government and how we run things here.


People who make nuclear power plants should be locked up for the entire life for putting people in danger of what could be a horrible accident.

It takes more then a single person to make a nuclear power plant, also they would need the approval of the state and federal government to do so. Also people who work on or for nuclear power plants how years and years possibly more years then you been alive studying and gathering information on how to make this process the safest and most efficient.


Bottom line is this: You can argue this all day, But the hard drugs and weed are still illegal and there is little we can do about it. Your fantasy for having Hard drugs legalized is something that you will never see in the United States of America. It just won't happen, Weed possibly, Hard drugs not happening.

Im out.

[Magus]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_(mean_physical_harm_and_mean_dependen ce).svg

I'm fine with legalizing everything in yellow. However, once you get up to heroin levels, it's just too extreme.


Heroine is the MOAB. It is really deadly. I have two cousines who died from using nothing but Heroine, and cocaine.

Opium poppy extract should be just opium resine, and not heroine and other stuff.

I advocate legalising natural materials like Psilocybin containing mushroom or even light artificial drugs like LSD. But there are dangerous stuff like Datura and A. muscaria, which are poisonous and hazardous to health.

[Korashk]

Just because something is legalized, doesn't make it safer.
Not explicitly, but yes it does.

I rather have a higher unemployment rate then getting so desperate for jobs as to building drug factorys.
You are not entitled to speak for the rest of us.

Also you got to look at what other countries are going to see of this, We been fighting a very tough war against drugs for a very long time. Do you think its going to show a good picture if we just give up and let them have it the way they want it? HELL NO, that will show weaken in our government and how we run things here.
So I take it you support the war on drugs. Here are some facts about the war on drugs:

- Almost half of those incarcerated are weed related. Source (http://www.drugsense.org/cms/wodclock)
- Over half of those incarcerated have no other convictions. Source (http://proxychi.baremetal.com/november.org/graphs/PrisonsFactsheet.pdf)
- An article (http://www.drugpolicy.org/library/factsheets/effectivenes/index.cfm) on just how inefective the drug war is.
- And a list of very, very serious, unintended consequences of the drug war that affect all Americans in a horrible way:

1. Patients are arrested for the only medicine (marijuana) that works for them.
2. Kids are fascinated by the glitter of illegal substances.
3. Urine tests for drugs - but not breathalyzer tests for alcohol - required to keep a job.
4. “No-Knock” searches have been legal under federal law since 1972.
5. Entrapment has now been institutionalized as “Drug Stings”.
6. Physical evidence is no longer required to sustain a conviction; just the word of a ‘snitch’ who’s been told he’ll get off easy if he says what the prosecution wants him to say.
7. $400 million in property is seized each year without any charges brought under our civil asset forfeiture laws.
8. Hearsay testimony defense now irrelevant, since government witnesses can now testiLIE under oath.
9. Prosecutors may now meet with defendants without counsel present.
10. Mandatory sentencing laws preordain the sentence. Then prosecutors inflate charges and allow confidential informants to commit perjury to get conviction.
11. 400,000+ nonviolent drug prisoners housed at $25,000 /year each, including about 30,000 women, most of them for ‘drug conspiracy’.
12. It’s a “youthful indiscretion” if you’re rich and white .... but zero tolerance if you’re poor or black.
13. Black and Hispanic drivers are frequently profiled and intimidated.
14. Innocent citizens are increasingly terrorized by police home invasions.
15. Many law enforcement officers are killed during violent drug busts.
16. Neighborhoods have been destroyed by the underground drug market.
17. Parole and earned early release were virtually abolished from the federal prison system (and many states) in the 1980s.
18. Prison-toughened minority males earn respect among their peers; prison is now considered a “rite of passage” in many urban communities.
19. Over half of those who ask for drug treatment are turned away.
20. Illegal drug use by blacks & whites is identical, but blacks are sent to state prisons on drug charges 13 times as often as whites.
21. Property crime are committed by addicts desperate for cash for their next fix at black market inflated prices.
22. Pain is consistently undertreated by doctors fearful of DEA surveillance.
23. A sharp increase in poisoning and overdose deaths by adulterated, unregulated drugs.
24. International narco-terrorists and drug cartels have destabilized many small countries.
25. Forced fumigation of many small farms in South America.
26. Student loans are denied for a drug conviction, but rape and murder are OK.
27. Entire families are evicted from public housing if any member or friend is caught with drugs.
28. Employees are fired for speaking out against the drug war.
29. High school seniors’ drug use is unchanged for the past 7 years: 25% for “any illegal drug”; 10% for “any illegal drug other than marijuana”.
30. Growing public perception that the drug war will never work.
Source (http://proxychi.baremetal.com/november.org/graphs/30consequences.pdf)

It takes more then a single person to make a nuclear power plant, also they would need the approval of the state and federal government to do so.
And legal meth labs WOULDN'T need this?

Also people who work on or for nuclear power plants how years and years possibly more years then you been alive studying and gathering information on how to make this process the safest and most efficient.
So...the exact same thing wouldn't happen if meth labs were legalized? Hell, the main reason that meth labs are dangerous is that they're usually run by meth-heads. Once that changes things get safer, which is something I've previously said.

Bottom line is this: You can argue this all day, But the hard drugs and weed are still illegal and there is little we can do about it. Your fantasy for having Hard drugs legalized is something that you will never see in the United States of America. It just won't happen, Weed possibly, Hard drugs not happening.
Point? You're on a debate forum. Debate or get out.

[TopGear]

Dude, It doesn't matter, your views on things for our country is out of this world and I would think most would agree. Im done debating it with you because it is pointless to debate something like this that won't change and debating with someone like you is like trying to tell the devil that god is good.

You have your own views on things, and thats great, but im glad less people think like you. Because our country would be a fuck up place.

[mranderson]

If suicide is illegal then so should hard drugs

[ShyGuyInChicago]

Hey, I'm don't like prohibiting things, but in some cases it has to be done. I'm not saying we should continue the failure that is the War on Drugs, different tactics have to be used (read: rehabilitation).

How would you implement that? I do not think rehab would make much of a difference though because I don't think one can be forced to go through rehab? But what did you have in mind?

[Amnesiac]

How would you implement that? I do not think rehab would make much of a difference though because I don't think one can be forced to go through rehab? But what did you have in mind?

I'm not in favor of putting every person who does drugs in prison. That doesn't work. Instead, I think we should focus on rehabilitation for people who need it. I guess I'm not really in favor of making all drugs minus marijuana illegal either.

[ShyGuyInChicago]

I'm not in favor of putting every person who does drugs in prison. That doesn't work. Instead, I think we should focus on rehabilitation for people who need it. I guess I'm not really in favor of making all drugs minus marijuana illegal either.

You reminded me of this that I wrote earlier in the thread.

I was watching a news discussion show and the host gave a possible solution to drug abuse and drug-related violence. All drugs should be legalized and then the money used investigating and prosecuting drug crimes could be spent on treating drug addicts so that they would have no need for drugs and then drugs would not be produced. that to me, while I wish it were possible that sounds very hard to believe that such a thing can happen.

[Perseus]

Dude, It doesn't matter, your views on things for our country is out of this world and I would think most would agree. Im done debating it with you because it is pointless to debate something like this that won't change and debating with someone like you is like trying to tell the devil that god is good.

You have your own views on things, and thats great, but im glad less people think like you. Because our country would be a fuck up place.

Y'know, Koshak has brought up many valid points.

[Amnesiac]

You reminded me of this that I wrote earlier in the thread.

That just seems so improbable. Not everything falls into place perfectly like that.

[TopGear]

Y'know, Koshak has brought up many valid points.

Not arguing the points he has made, Just stating the fact that there is little we can do and I think I can make a fair statement saying that most people would disagree with his views.

[Perseus]

Not arguing the points he has made, Just stating the fact that there is little we can do and I think I can make a fair statement saying that most people would disagree with his views.

Yeah, yo were, and that's what debating is about. If you don't want people to disagree with your views, then don't come to ROTW.

[Korashk]

Not arguing the points he has made, Just stating the fact that there is little we can do and I think I can make a fair statement saying that most people would disagree with his views.
I'm very freaking aware that I hold a large number of minority positions. Doesn't mean my positions are any less valid.