Religion in the military

[Amnesiac]

After reading this article (http://articles.cnn.com/2008-07-08/us/atheist.soldier_1_tours-discrimination-bible?_s=PM:US) (and this article (http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/10/07/oif-troop-on-coercive-christian-u-s-military-i-refuse-to-be-part-of-the-problem-anymore/), and this article (http://atheism.about.com/b/2006/01/05/religious-discrimination-continues-in-the-military.htm)), I've become convinced that religion is just as much of a threat to the lives of soldiers in combat as sexual orientation is. It may not be as large of an issue as "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", but the military's blatant ignorance of continuous religious discrimination against atheists and other non-Christians presents a danger to those soldiers putting their lives on the line to further the interests of the United States. It only serves as an extremely divisive distraction, which is unacceptable.

The best way to combat this intolerance within the military would be to ban discussion of religion and public religious observances. Soldiers should have the right to pray or read the Bible in private, but they shouldn't be shoving that religion down the throats of their fellow servicemen.

[huginnmuninn]

interesting articles i think that the army shouldnt force religion yes allow the religious to practice the various religions but dont punish others because they dont

[Amnesiac]

interesting articles i think that the army shouldnt force religion yes allow the religious to practice the various religions but dont punish others because they dont

It's not the military itself, it's the members of the military. The super-religious ones who think atheists need to be "converted"; there are a lot of them. The CNN article said something about over 8,000 complaints regarding this.

[Perseus]

What happened to the glory days when the servicemen and women weren't obnoxious? I mean, instead of them wanting to liberating places, they'd rather go on huntin' missions for fingers and such.

[Amnesiac]

What happened to the glory days when the servicemen and women weren't obnoxious? I mean, instead of them wanting to liberating places, they'd rather go on huntin' missions for fingers and such.

I know, it's sad that soldiers care more about converting their fellow "freedom fighters" to Jesus rather than doing their job, which is to bring stability to Afghanistan.

[Syvelocin]

Agree 100%.

We have enough of that already that shouldn't be happening in the entire world, let alone it happening in the military.

[scuba steve]

The only religion in the army should be the riflemans creed "this is my rifle."

[The Ninja]

I know, it's sad that soldiers care more about converting their fellow "freedom fighters" to Jesus rather than doing their job, which is to bring stability to Afghanistan.

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations batizing them in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit." (Matt. 28:19)

It's a bit... ironic you migh call it. My religion tells christians to force their religion on people. So saying that christians cant force (practice) there religion on athiests and saying that athiests can practice there "religion" (or whatever) by not believing in God is kind of a double standard? Despite what the bible passage says and the point i just tried to make I agree with you, if they dont want to be converted dont try to convert them. Now should there be a law? If there was a law they wouldnt be allowing christians (or other faiths) to talk about God and thats almost as bad as making athiests talk about God. So I dont know, I guess I'm nuetral on the matter until some one convinces me to join there side.

Unrelated: That would be kind of interesting you get someone whos nuetral on the subject, someone who agrees with the subject, and someone who disagrees with the subject and each side tries to convince the nuetral person to join there side. I realize that debate is similar to this as your trying to convince the other person to agree with you, but we could almost make a game out of that. Any ideas.

[Amnesiac]

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations batizing them in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit." (Matt. 28:19)

It's a bit... ironic you migh call it. My religion tells christians to force their religion on people. So saying that christians cant force (practice) there religion on athiests and saying that athiests can practice there "religion" (or whatever) by not believing in God is kind of a double standard?

Forcing your religion down another person's throat isn't "practicing", it's "spreading". There are plenty of situations where religious people are barred from fully practicing their religion. Take, for example, polygamy and sacrifices. There's a boundary between acceptable religious observance (praying, fasting, reading the Bible/Koran/Torah, ect.) and observance that infringes on the safety and rights of others.

[The Ninja]

Forcing your religion down another person's throat isn't "practicing", it's "spreading". There are plenty of situations where religious people are barred from fully practicing their religion. Take, for example, polygamy and sacrifices. There's a boundary between acceptable religious observance (praying, fasting, reading the Bible/Koran/Torah, ect.) and observance that infringes on the safety and rights of others.

So are you saying christians (or other faiths) shouldnt be aloud to talk about there religion to athiests? Like I said trying to convert them is pointless but if something comes up in conversation christians should be able to talk about there religion. I dont see how that would be any different than me copying that bible verse, I mean are you at all offened that I mentioned it, it was relavent to the conversation. (or debate rather) Besides since when is trying to convert an athiest hazardous to their health, as a US citizen I have the right to try to convert an athiest as much as he/she has the right to ignore me. It doesnt violate their rights either infact it violates my right to free speech if you dont allow me to talk about it to them. I went from disagreeing about a law to completely disagreeing with you.

[huginnmuninn]

So are you saying christians (or other faiths) shouldnt be aloud to talk about there religion to athiests? Like I said trying to convert them is pointless but if something comes up in conversation christians should be able to talk about there religion. I dont see how that would be any different than me copying that bible verse, I mean are you at all offened that I mentioned it, it was relavent to the conversation. (or debate rather) Besides since when is trying to convert an athiest hazardous to their health, as a US citizen I have the right to try to convert an athiest as much as he/she has the right to ignore me. It doesnt violate their rights either infact it violates my right to free speech if you dont allow me to talk about it to them. I went from disagreeing about a law to completely disagreeing with you.

i see no problem with talking about your religion but if you start to get all preachy and telling me im wrong and that im going to go to hell thats when ill get angry

[Amnesiac]

So are you saying christians (or other faiths) shouldnt be aloud to talk about there religion to athiests? Like I said trying to convert them is pointless but if something comes up in conversation christians should be able to talk about there religion. I dont see how that would be any different than me copying that bible verse, I mean are you at all offened that I mentioned it, it was relavent to the conversation. (or debate rather) Besides since when is trying to convert an athiest hazardous to their health, as a US citizen I have the right to try to convert an athiest as much as he/she has the right to ignore me. It doesnt violate their rights either infact it violates my right to free speech if you dont allow me to talk about it to them. I went from disagreeing about a law to completely disagreeing with you.

I'm not talking about in public. This is the military. You're misunderstanding this entire thread. In the military, the same laws don't apply.

Overzealous Christians (or people of any belief) in the military — and there are PLENTY of them — are only creating hazardous distractions in military units. They should not be talking about their religion to other soldiers, just as they don't talk about their sexual orientation. Soldiers are free to pray or talk about religion over the Internet in private, but by no means should they be arguing over it with fellow servicemen and further dividing their unit. It's dangerous; the threats it presents have been documented in the articles I provided.

I couldn't give less of a fuck about people talking about religion in public. This is about the military, not civilians.

[The Ninja]

i see no problem with talking about your religion but if you start to get all preachy and telling me im wrong and that im going to go to hell thats when ill get angry

I agree. it would be like a Jew going upto a christian and telling them "Your wrong and your going to go to hell" neither of us can really no if we're right even though it says plainly in the bible, written by God, that Jesus died on the cross, But thats a completely different debate.

I'm not talking about in public. This is the military. You're misunderstanding this entire thread. In the military, the same laws don't apply.

Overzealous Christians (or people of any belief) in the military — and there are PLENTY of them — are only creating hazardous distractions in military units. They should not be talking about their religion to other soldiers, just as they don't talk about their sexual orientation. Soldiers are free to pray or talk about religion over the Internet in private, but by no means should they be arguing over it with fellow servicemen and further dividing their unit. It's dangerous; the threats it presents have been documented in the articles I provided.

I couldn't give less of a fuck about people talking about religion in public. This is about the military, not civilians.

I agree it's dangerous to the rest of the unit to talk to a person of a different belief about religion. but whats wrong with people with the same beliefs talking to eachother about them. Is it still just as dangerous?

you said

In the military, the same laws don't apply.

Now correct me if i'm wrong, but from what i remember my only problem was the right to free speech. So 1.) Do servicemen have the right to free speech? and 2.) Is the right to free speech considered a law.

There are plenty of situations where religious people are barred from fully practicing their religion. Take, for example, polygamy and sacrifices.
Does this only apply in the military? If not then you were talking about laws that only apply to citizens too.

[Amnesiac]

I agree it's dangerous to the rest of the unit to talk to a person of a different belief about religion. but whats wrong with people with the same beliefs talking to eachother about them. Is it still just as dangerous?

To find who has th same beliefs as you, you're going to have to ask people what religion they are. That's dangerous in itself. The military isn't some social gathering, there's no need to. As I said, if they want to talk about religion, they can go online.

Now correct me if i'm wrong, but from what i remember my only problem was the right to free speech. So 1.) Do servicemen have the right to free speech? and 2.) Is the right to free speech considered a law.

It's well known that soldiers don't have the same rights regular citizens do. Free speech in the military isn't as far-ranging as a regular person's free speech rights, certain things have to be restricted to ensure that the unit stays together and safe.

Does this only apply in the military? If not then you were talking about laws that only apply to citizens too.

I was using it as an example. It shows that just because your religion tells you something doesn't mean you can always do it. There are limits, in civilian life and in the military. Obviously, the military's rules on religion don't go far enough.

[The Ninja]

To find who has th same beliefs as you, you're going to have to ask people what religion they are. That's dangerous in itself. The military isn't some social gathering, there's no need to. As I said, if they want to talk about religion, they can go online.

Well what if two people have been best friends since kinergarten and obviously know eachothers beliefs then what about discussing it with them, yeah i realize that the chances of them being in the same unit are very unlikely but im just "using it as an example"

I was using it as an example. It shows that just because your religion tells you something doesn't mean you can always do it. There are limits, in civilian life and in the military. Obviously, the military's rules on religion don't go far enough.

I rarely ever do exactly what my religion tells me to. I believe the important stuff and do the important things, but thats about it. So is there a law against "forcing your religion down someones throat" or do we need to start a petition. ;)

[Amnesiac]

Well what if two people have been best friends since kinergarten and obviously know eachothers beliefs then what about discussing it with them, yeah i realize that the chances of them being in the same unit are very unlikely but im just "using it as an example"

Then they shouldn't talk about it. There's no reason to. If we expanded "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" to all sexual orientation, and we had two friends who were gay, they wouldn't be able to talk about that either. It's unnecessary.

I rarely ever do exactly what my religion tells me to. I believe the important stuff and do the important things, but thats about it. So is there a law against "forcing your religion down someones throat" or do we need to start a petition. ;)

There should be a military law against talking about religion in a unit (not necessarily when one's living on base or anything, but when they're deployed).

[The Ninja]

(not necessarily when one's living on base or anything, but when they're deployed).

Well if they were on base and they got deployed and were in the same unit wouldnt this cause just as much truoble. (gosh whos side am i on)