Recite pledge or go to jail?

[Amnesiac]

TUPELO, Miss. – When a Mississippi judge entered a courtroom and asked everyone to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance, an attorney with a reputation for fighting free speech battles stayed silent as everyone else recited the patriotic oath. The lawyer was jailed.

Attorney Danny Lampley spent about five hours behind bars Wednesday before Judge Talmadge Littlejohn set him free so that the lawyer could work on another case. Lampley told The Northeast Mississippi Daily Journal he respected the judge but wasn't going to back down.

"I don't have to say it because I'm an American," Lampley told the newspaper.

The Supreme Court ruled nearly 70 years ago that schoolchildren couldn't be forced to say the pledge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_vs._Barnette), a decision widely interpreted to mean no one could be required to recite the pledge.

On Thursday, the judge again asked those in the courtroom to pledge allegiance to the flag, which stands to the right of the bench.

(...)

Littlejohn is in his mid-70s and has been a chancery judge for eight years, presiding mainly over divorces and child custody disputes. He was previously a state lawmaker, prosecutor and city judge. He's also a Sunday School teacher at First Baptist Church of New Albany and is known for running an orderly, professional courtroom.

From here. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101007/ap_on_re_us/us_jailed_over_pledge)

The Pledge of Allegiance makes the United States look like some fascist dictatorship. Nobody should be forced to say it. I would happily say it in school if it were 100% optional and "under God" wasn't in it.

In conclusion, this judge doesn't know anything about the First Amendment or Supreme Court decisions.

[Clawhammer]

About the under God bit, I respect other people's opinions, but this country kind of was founded on Christian principles. I'm not saying we don't have religious freedom, I won't shove it down anyone's throat, but why make such a big deal of that part? Just curious.

[Amnesiac]

About the under God bit, I respect other people's opinions, but this country kind of was founded on Christian principles. I'm not saying we don't have religious freedom, I won't shove it down anyone's throat, but why make such a big deal of that part? Just curious.

Many of the 13 colonies were founded by religious groups fleeing Britain to escape religious persecution. Colonies like Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Maryland had strong policies regarding freedom of religion and separation of church and state.

Many of the Founding Fathers were against mixing religion and government, notably Thomas Jefferson, and a good chunk of them were deists, not necessarily Christians. Also, in 1797, the Treaty of Tripoli was signed, officially declaring that the United States is not founded on Christian principles. The Constitiution's Supremacy Clause states that treaties are equal in power to the Constitution.

[Tiberius]

I haven't said it since January 20th, 2009. I've received a bunch of crap about it from students and faculty members, but to make me say it is rather unamerican. I'm just following my Constitutionally rights as an American citizen and taking Emerson's words of individuality and right of expression to heart.

[Perseus]

I've received a bunch of crap about it from students and faculty members, but to make me say it is rather unamerican. I'm just following my Constitutionally rights as an American citizen and taking Emerson's words of individuality and right of expression to heart.

Really? I stopped saying it entirely this semester, and no one has commented on it to me.

[Amnesiac]

I haven't said it since January 20th, 2009. I've received a bunch of crap about it from students and faculty members, but to make me say it is rather unamerican. I'm just following my Constitutionally rights as an American citizen and taking Emerson's words of individuality and right of expression to heart.

Indeed, I haven't said it for at least a year. Surprisingly, the teachers here seem to not care about whether people say it or not, which is weird for somewhere as conservative as Texas (this is one of the most right-winged parts of Houston).

During both pledges (Texas pledge too) only a handful of people will say it, and everyone sits down during the moment of silence.

[huginnmuninn]

i say it but omit the under god part

[Sage]

this country kind of was founded on Christian principles.

Yeah, about that...

The United States is in no way founded upon the Christian religion.

[Clawhammer]

Agreed people, Christianity and government should be kept apart. But it does not say who's God it is. Could mean any religion. My point is why get all upset about it? Unless I'm mistaken, it does not name the God, and if you're an Atheist, that shouldn't be a problem, as you do not believe in any God. Back on topic, I don't think I'll ever say it again (and haven't in a very long time), as I govern myself, and I am in no man's power if I choose not to be. Independence. Key word here.

[Sage]

Could mean any religion.

Not if you're a polytheist, pantheist, or atheist. It presupposes monotheism.

[Amnesiac]

Not if you're a polytheist, pantheist, or atheist. It presupposes monotheism.

And that's what makes it unconstitutional.

[lengthy_brochure]

I have deleted the contents of this post

[The Joker]

Agreed people, Christianity and government should be kept apart. But it does not say who's God it is. Could mean any religion. My point is why get all upset about it? Unless I'm mistaken, it does not name the God, and if you're an Atheist, that shouldn't be a problem, as you do not believe in any God. Back on topic, I don't think I'll ever say it again (and haven't in a very long time), as I govern myself, and I am in no man's power if I choose not to be. Independence. Key word here.

If you don't believe in any God, then why should you pledge allegiance to any God?

[Sith Lord 13]

this country kind of was founded on Christian principles.

Yeah, about that...


The United States is in no way founded upon the Christian religion.

There's a difference between the principals of a thing and the thing itself.

[prettyprincess]

It is an old fashion tradition that was formed when everyone had a strong feeling of national pride. Like when we were off fighting real wars and stuff. Call this a conspiracy theory but i bet it was first required in school when we were fighting wars and the government was probably hoping that the young immigrant kids would be brain washed by the pledge and not be as loyal to their real home country. Any I dont agree with all the words, like under god, but i just say it because its not worhth it not to. Also my school doesnt even do it everyday they sometimes play other pratriotic songs instead.

[Sage]

There's a difference between the principals of a thing and the thing itself.

What would you consider to be "Christian principles" then?

[Sith Lord 13]

What would you consider to be "Christian principles" then?

There are many things. It's basically reflective of the American psyche at the time. Best quick example: Puritan work ethic.