Communism?

[Azunite]

Do you think Communism is a good system? Do you think your country should be communist?

The idea of communism seems cool though :D

[Azunite]

It can be an awful system..
Lybia for example.
Lybia doesn't allow pepole to have any private bussiness sector, and there are no garages to repair cars.
Howeve, Tunisia is smart about that , and there are many garages of Tunisia at the border so people from Lybia go to Tunisia and repair their cars there.
(And peple for god's sake please don't say " Lie! Give me a fuckin link" because the link is my father who worken in Lybia for a year

[Jess]

no, from what I learned about it, and about the Cultural Revolution in China, it's not a very good system. I have a book about a girl in China going through it. You were looked down if you had a landlord as a grandfather or whatever

[The Dark Lord]

no, from what I learned about it, and about the Cultural Revolution in China, it's not a very good system. I have a book about a girl in China going through it. You were looked down if you had a landlord as a grandfather or whatever

if you compare what China is like now, compared to what it was pre-Deng Xiapong then you would agree communism works.

However, Communism acts against the principles of human nature, it destroys ambition and hope as well as leading to dictatorships.

[Amnesiac]

Communism is an unsustainable economic system that can destroy a nation — just look at North Korea. It may be about equality, but in the end it turns to fascism.

Also, social democracy is not communism.

[Asylum]

i dislike communisim because you can work hard and get the same pay as someone who doesn't. you won't have to try, and you get taken care of by the governemnt, so there is no need to do better.. but otherwise i love communism

[scuba steve]

At the minute Capitalism is the most rewarding sense of government, actually appealing to citizens to try, but yea both are flawed; it's a nice idea for everyone to be equal but there will always corruption pulling the strings to their will in the end (of course the same can be said for democracy.)

[ZodiacKiller]

>:[
It can be an awful system..
Lybia for example.
Lybia doesn't allow pepole to have any private bussiness sector, and there are no garages to repair cars.
Howeve, Tunisia is smart about that , and there are many garages of Tunisia at the border so people from Lybia go to Tunisia and repair their cars there.
(And peple for god's sake please don't say " Lie! Give me a fuckin link" because the link is my father who worken in Lybia for a year


A. The point of communism is partially to not allow provate business
B. That cars thing is just random. It doesn't follow the ideas of communism

no, from what I learned about it, and about the Cultural Revolution in China, it's not a very good system. I have a book about a girl in China going through it. You were looked down if you had a landlord as a grandfather or whatever

China is not a real communism. It's a socialist communism. Furthurmore, it ignores the basic concepts of communism; it has social hierarchy, as you just stated.

Communism is an unsustainable economic system that can destroy a nation — just look at North Korea. It may be about equality, but in the end it turns to fascism.

Also, social democracy is not communism.

Once again that's not communism.
Also, fascism is the organisation of society by economic and political standards through hierarchal structures.
Communism, on the other hand, is the denying of social structures based on economic and political power.

i dislike communisim because you can work hard and get the same pay as someone who doesn't. you won't have to try, and you get taken care of by the governemnt, so there is no need to do better.. but otherwise i love communism

Yay! something accurate.
Yes, I am communist, but there is the problem of lazy people: what if they don't want to work? I justify this with my disbeleif in social standards, but that really is unrelated and an uncommon beleif, so its unimportant. For these puposes, yes that is a flaw.

At the minute Capitalism is the most rewarding sense of government, actually appealing to citizens to try, but yea both are flawed; it's a nice idea for everyone to be equal but there will always corruption pulling the strings to their will in the end (of course the same can be said for democracy.)

Mor accuracy! kind of. The people dont always want capitalism really. They are brainwashed from the age of 2 that democracy and capitalism are the best, so that they can be controlled. That's my beleif. Every society beleives they are the best, and thus teaches its new members its the best, almost unwittingly. So maybe the "brainwashed"/"controlled" part is wrong.



bring the fight to me

[Amnesiac]

Once again that's not communism.
Also, fascism is the organisation of society by economic and political standards through hierarchal structures.
Communism, on the other hand, is the denying of social structures based on economic and political power.


Communism is a sociopolitical movement that aims for a classless society structured upon communal ownership of the means of production and the end of wage labour and private property.

Working off of that definition: communism is when the state eliminates the division of the population based on wealth, taking control of the economy in the process. Individuals are expected to work for the good of the country, not for their own benefit.

It sounds like it would work on paper. The truth is: it doesn't. Time and time again we have seen communist societies that promote full equality fall into dictatorships where there are two classes: the government (high) and the people (low). Members of government live rich, full lives while the people are left to run the state-controlled production sector of the economy. It's unequal.

[ZodiacKiller]

i challenge that!
your definition says nothing about a government being in charge of the $$:
Communism is a sociopolitical movement that aims for a classless society structured upon communal ownership of the means of production and the end of wage labour and private property.

which means nobody is in charge. which means nobody can abuse their power. the point is to prevent a "rich" class from living better lifestyles.

[huginnmuninn]

really another communism discusion?

well to be honest i hate the idea of communism and as i said before it would only work for small groups of people who want to follow communism

[Amnesiac]

i challenge that!
your definition says nothing about a government being in charge of the $$:

which means nobody is in charge. which means nobody can abuse their power. the point is to prevent a "rich" class from living better lifestyles.

It's "communal", as in everybody is in charge. That's pure communism, which does not exist in the modern world. Every communist state has had a ruling government, one elected through a communist party (single-party state), that promises to promoted an equalized economy. The ruling government proceeds to shut down and manually plan out the course of the economy while reaping the benefits of power.

[ZodiacKiller]

i no... it makes me mad.

er.. thats wrong. i dislike the modern functioning of society anyways. i wish that the world was still separated enough to allow true communism

[Amnesiac]

i no... it makes me mad.

er.. thats wrong. i dislike the modern functioning of society anyways. i wish that the world was still separated enough to allow true communism

I'm going to assume the OP was talking about the communist states we see that exist in the world today, not necessarily pure communism. Pure communism will never exist in a stable form.

Therefore, we should be discussing whether or not the communist systems we have seem historically and in modern times are feasible and whether or not they work better than capitalism.

[ZodiacKiller]

no im talking about nongovernmental nonmonetary communism. the world is too structured and globalised to allow it. so it cant exist.
i hate the structure and globalisation of our world

[Amnesiac]

no im talking about nongovernmental nonmonetary communism. the world is too structured and globalised to allow it. so it cant exist.
i hate the structure and globalisation of our world

As long as humans have emotions, it will never exist. It's not about the structure of the world economy, it's about simple human nature: greed.

[Peace God]

Time and time again we have seen communist societies that promote full equality fall into dictatorships
with communism, im pretty sure a dictatorship is required... immediately after overthrowing the previous government
its in the actual communist manifesto if im not mistaken

[ZodiacKiller]

native tribes came pretty close to communism without calling it communism. compare mentally

[huginnmuninn]

i challenge that!
your definition says nothing about a government being in charge of the $$:


which means nobody is in charge. which means nobody can abuse their power. the point is to prevent a "rich" class from living better lifestyles.

someone is always going to be in charge if someone wasnt in charge it would bring chaos and im pretty sure people dont like chaos because people as a whole need a leader to direct them.

the only way to prevent the rich class from living better life styles is to pay everybody the same thing. which would have to mean someone is in charge of the money. so even if its not the government controling the money its somebody which is still as bad because they would get greedy and take money or make it so that they get more money so they would have a better life style. also someone is going to find a way to get paid more than someone else for some reason.its impossible to prevent it. and if some one is getting paid more than someone else they are going to live a better life than someone else.

[Perseus]

i hate the structure and globalisation of our world

Yeah, because being connected with other countries across many a mile of ocean is such a terrible thing, as with trade.

[ZodiacKiller]

Perseus... i have my reasons, but they are unrelated so i did not state them

[Amnesiac]

with communism, im pretty sure a dictatorship is required... immediately after overthrowing the previous government
its in the actual communist manifesto if im not mistaken

I would say a better word would be inevitable. You can't expect everyone to be 100% equal, people will always try and get their hands on more power, it's one of the basic principles of humanity.

[Peace God]

Between capitalist and communist society there lies the period of the revolutionary transformation of the one into the other. Corresponding to this is also a political transition period in which the state can be nothing, but the revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat. - Karl Marx
....

[huginnmuninn]

native tribes came pretty close to communism without calling it communism. compare mentally

small tribes where everybody knows each other couldnt end up with communism. what makes you think that a good sized country where most people dont know or care about the majority of the others could be under communism?

[ZodiacKiller]

thats what im saying... you cant do it in a world this developed... otherwise itd be perfect

[huginnmuninn]

thats what im saying... you cant do it in a world this developed... otherwise itd be perfect

it wouldnt be perfect because you still have human nature to contend with

[Perseus]

thats what im saying... you cant do it in a world this developed... otherwise itd be perfect

Why? There'd still be desire for a better life if you are doing more work that the fellow down the dirt path. If you do more, you deserve more.

[lengthy_brochure]

I have deleted the contents of this post

[ZodiacKiller]

Perseus, you under the idea that "goodness" should be rewarded, but you fail to define "goodness". All men were created equal, and no amount of work can change that. Even if you contribute to society more than another, you still are neccessary for its existence. We are often unaware of the importance of the plumbers and garbage men, ect... but without them our society would collapse.

There is no true judgement for "My contribution is superior to yours" because such claims are moral-based and no morals can be absolutely proven.

[scuba steve]

Perseus, you under the idea that "goodness" should be rewarded, but you fail to define "goodness". All men were created equal, and no amount of work can change that. Even if you contribute to society more than another, you still are neccessary for its existence. We are often unaware of the importance of the plumbers and garbage men, ect... but without them our society would collapse.

There is no true judgement for "My contribution is superior to yours" because such claims are moral-based and no morals can be absolutely proven.

so a suicidal junkie whore type woman, cleaning the streets should still be equal in terms of pay compared to a Managing Director of a successful company in the central part of a city?
And btw tradesmen are very well paid (plumbers, electritions etc) the only reason they can go through hard times is when there is little demand for their services e.g. due to recession or due to a highly saturated market in that area. Also thanks to "capitalism" allowing people to have a right to choose what they want and don't want to do even the occupation of garbage man is resonably well paid to motivate employees and future applicants (garbage man also requires more qualifications than you might think as well and not because of high demand for the post of people scraping the bottom of the barrel.

[Azunite]

My friend is a huge fan of Cuba ( lol Commies ) and he read books about Karl Marx, and he says like " Even the soviet communism is not the real communism " he says.

[ZodiacKiller]

Princeofmadness: Your friend is right. Im quite frustrated with the reality that people don't know what communism is. They only know the modern (failure) communisms because that is all that has existed. The only reason true communism doesn't exist is it can't in this world (not because of human nature- because of the growth of our society).

scuba_steve: Yes. As I said before, you can't prove morals, so you can't prove any basis for one person being supported more than another. To you a "suicidal junkie whore type woman" may be less than "a Managing Director at a successful company", but that does not neccessarily make it true.

[Perseus]

All men were created equal, and no amount of work can change that.


Says who? I do not find a cumdumpster equal to me.

[ZodiacKiller]

this is where we reach impasse. you chose to beleive in hierarchy, i do not. I am not going to change my beleifs unless i see evidence to make me do so, and the same is true for you.
thus, there is no resolve between us except an agreement to disagree.

[Perseus]

this is where we reach impasse. you chose to beleive in hierarchy, i do not. I am not going to change my beleifs unless i see evidence to make me do so, and the same is true for you.
thus, there is no resolve between us except an agreement to disagree.

You didn't answer my first question, though.

[ZodiacKiller]

what question?

[Perseus]

what question?

You said all men are equal, and I said "says who?". The only place that says that is the Constitution.

[ZodiacKiller]

actually its the declaration of independece
its the basis of many religions and philosophies. in fact, most people don't understand the hindu caste system at all when my teacher explained it. im not saying its wrong, though it is my opinion (fact vs opinion) it is. anyway, nobody said it as if it were law, its just you cant prove that it isnt true, only that you feel like it is.

[Aspiringanonymous]

The success of such a system requires above all else, that every participating member of society agrees with the beliefs and values upon which it is built. In every situation there will be dissidence - so the question is, how will a fully egalitarian society deal with rebels and dissidents? Preaching won't work, so it will have to be suppression - firstly, for every one martyr, ten more are created - and with an increase in the need to suppress, the need for certain individuals in society to once again hold recognized power arises.

Human beings have a natural tendency towards chaos, not balance and calm - indeed, most people will say that the prospect of a simple, conflict-free life would be utterly boring. That, I think, is ultimately the problem.

[Perseus]

actually its the declaration of independeceGoddamn it, I put that first and then corrected myself because I thought I was wrong, but anyway:
its the basis of many religions and philosophies. in fact, most people don't understand the hindu caste system at all when my teacher explained it. im not saying its wrong, though it is my opinion (fact vs opinion) it is. anyway, nobody said it as if it were law, its just you cant prove that it isnt true, only that you feel like it is.

See, that's where it boils down to whether or not you have religious values. If I'm mistaken, doesn't communism get rid of religion? And the Hindu caste system was wrong since you were born into to it and had no way of changing who you were.

[ZodiacKiller]

YOU think its wrong, but thats only an opinion so don't state it as fact.at most you can say that the opposite can't be proven. the caste system and various other similar systems are widely followed, and do have some philosophy as backup, so you can't really say that your right and all those other people are wrong.

[Perseus]

YOU think its wrong, but thats only an opinion so don't state it as fact.at most you can say that the opposite can't be proven. the caste system and various other similar systems are widely followed, and do have some philosophy as backup, so you can't really say that your right and all those other people are wrong.

I never said I was right; I guess thinking that you were smart enough to gather that that was my opinion was wrong. My bad, bro.

[ZodiacKiller]

sokay.. so anyway, we agree to disagree

[Perseus]

sokay.. so anyway, we agree to disagree

I am so confused on your stances. Do you find the Hindu Caste System right? If you do, that makes no sense since you believe in perfect communism.

[ZodiacKiller]

no, that was just an example of how we cant prove which is right... if that makes sense

[Perseus]

no, that was just an example of how we cant prove which is right... if that makes sense

But morally, it isn't right. The untouchables were discriminated against.

[ZodiacKiller]

back to square one...

but you cant prove your right in saying that. you cant even prove there is a universal system of morals.

[Perseus]

back to square one...

but you cant prove your right in saying that. you cant even prove there is a universal system of morals.

How can I not prove I'm right when they were discriminated against? No one liked them because of what they were born into.

[huginnmuninn]

How can I not prove I'm right when they were discriminated against? No one liked them because of what they were born into.

hes right on this one buddy unless everybody is proven to have the same morals then it cant be considered wrong except by those who disagree with it but those who do agree with the caste system probably thought that this was perfectly ok. we all have our opinions and everybody has a right to them.

[Perseus]

we all have our opinions and everybody has a right to them.

Ok? I never said he couldn't have an opinion. Thanks for sharing, I guess?

But the thing is the untouchables never had any choice into what caste they were born into. Explain to me right here how being discriminated against because of the social status of which you were born into and had no choice of choosing is not morally wrong. It's discrimination. They did not live good lives; no one liked them. Just because we have no proof for whatever the hell y'all are rambling on about(I have no idea since neither of you know how to construct proper sentences).

[ZodiacKiller]

The point is not that I have an opinion about the subject, but that people have opinions about the subject. Because of this, no resolution can be found.

Theoretically, the best solution would be to split the world into seperate societies based on their opinions because of the inability to resolve. However, this is impossible.

[Perseus]

The point is not that I have an opinion about the subject, but that people have opinions about the subject. Because of this, no resolution can be found.

Theoretically, the best solution would be to split the world into seperate societies based on their opinions because of the inability to resolve. However, this is impossible.

Just because we have differing opinions doesn't mean anything. That's what fuels a debate; stepping out because the other person disagrees with you isn't a debate, it's just being an ass.

[ZodiacKiller]

im doing it because neither of us is going to change their minds; therefore ther is no point to debating

[Perseus]

im doing it because neither of us is going to change their minds; therefore ther is no point to debating

Yes, there is. For fun. Too see the other person's reasoning and such.

[Errr]

Well, im German, naturally I like it.
Lol.
But is it a good system? Some things yes, some no. It is efficent if dictated right. So it is good in that sense. It is completely unfair though. Would i want it? No.

[Tiberius]

My friend is a huge fan of Cuba ( lol Commies ) and he read books about Karl Marx, and he says like " Even the soviet communism is not the real communism " he says.

You should tell your friend about Castro saying last month that communism doesn't work.

[ZodiacKiller]

fyi, cuba wasn't a pure communism.

[Azunite]

You should tell your friend about Castro saying last month that communism doesn't work.

I told him not long ago that even Cuba is not a communist anymore and he said "Fidel doesnt believe in Comm. anymore but what the hell sickle&hammer forever" he says

[Amnesiac]

I told him not long ago that even Cuba is not a communist anymore and he said "Fidel doesnt believe in Comm. anymore but what the hell sickle&hammer forever" he says

No, Cuba is still a communist state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_communist_states), it's just not the power it once was. It can't intimidate the US with the USSR anymore.