Israel, the real problem?

[mrmcdonaldduck]

Is Israel the real problem to peace in the middle east? Is it their policy of settling on Palestinian land and taking prime agricultural land and leaving the Palestinians with desert that causes all of the terrorism and angst in the middle east?

Or is it the US, with an agressive, pro Israel policy that cause the most terrorism?

I am inclined to say that it is 90% Israel. They think, because they are gods "people" that they can do whatever they want, and have no punishment thrust upon them. Israels arrogance is amazing, only they could do such things with such impunity, and if we say that it is outrageous we are labelled jew haters, Nazis or terrorist sympathizers. Not to mention that any attrorieties that are commited by Israel are denied by Israel, and are doctored. A perfect example was the Aid convoy earlier this year. Not to mention that Israeli soldiers accused of crimes are not investaged seriously, and are punished leniently http://www.news.com.au/world/israeli-soldiers-guilty-of-using-palestinian-boy-as-human-shield/story-e6frfkyi-1225933642449

What do you guys think?

[jason93]

The land was always desert until the Zionist went there and made it green.

[Whisper]

ZpHP5W0_Vjs&feature=related

_WwWE0jwvwA


http://palestinethinktank.com/2009/01/10/francis-boyle-the-united-states-promotes-israeli-genocide-against-the-palestinians/

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_lHn1p7q95Qs/S8cCU-aZa1I/AAAAAAAAL9g/lFGOCLrGlPM/s400/Peace-+You're+doing+it+wrong.jpg

fuck israel

[Azunite]

If there were no Israel, there would be peace in MEast, since the land would be equally distributed to Lebanon and Palestine.
My dad loves Jews, because they are hardworking, and we protected them from Europ in Ottoman Era, and from Hitler in WW2. and he hates arabs
When I asked dad, shouldt this be an act of war since they killed our people, he said
"If you were the ruler of Israel, you would also board those ships. because you don't what is in those ships, maybe there are guns from Palestine Militia, maybe there are bombs. You were just defendin yourself."

Completely disagree though.
Since Israel was established, war never left Middle East. Israel is one snotty country,
But eventually Europe and Turkey will stop them..
Because of America, Europe couldnt stop israel at UN when they invaded Palestine.
Israel does not know the meaning of humanity. Phosphorus bombs and chemies against Palestine children....

[The Dark Lord]

If there were no Israel, there would be peace in MEast, since the land would be equally distributed to Lebanon and Palestine.
My dad loves Jews, because they are hardworking, and we protected them from Europ in Ottoman Era, and from Hitler in WW2. and he hates arabs
When I asked dad, shouldt this be an act of war since they killed our people, he said
"If you were the ruler of Israel, you would also board those ships. because you don't what is in those ships, maybe there are guns from Palestine Militia, maybe there are bombs. You were just defendin yourself."

Completely disagree though.
Since Israel was established, war never left Middle East. Israel is one snotty country,
But eventually Europe and Turkey will stop them..
Because of America, Europe couldnt stop israel at UN when they invaded Palestine.
Jews don't know the meaning of humanity. Phosphorus bombs and chemies against Palestine children....

racist, bigoted, naive and sterotypical attacks are not reasons against Israel

[CaptainObvious]

Israel is a democratic state with many factions, and it is more than a little absurd to act as if the entire populace or country as a whole can be represented by a monolithic viewpoint. The problem for peace in the Middle East is extremists, and that is true on all sides. Atrocities have been committed by Israel, against Israel... everyone in this conflict has their hands stained in unjust blood. However, the extreme Zionist (generally Orthodox Jewish) settlers that brazenly continue to build on land claimed for a Palestinian state (with the clear goal of subverting a peace that they do not want, since they want all the land on a religious basis) are especially egregious culprits here, and they and their enablers in Israel hold the lion's share of the blame for any continuing violence at this point.

-------------------------

Jews don't know the meaning of humanity.

I'm going to use this as an opportunity to issue a public warning: anyone who makes bigoted statements like this one will be infracted, going forward. Criticizing Israel is acceptable; being bigoted is not.

[Azunite]

So there is nothing with "Fuck Israel" ?

There is a Turkish series called " Kurtlar Vadisi ( Valley of the Wolves) " and in it's new trailer, it makes a video about 2023 ( 100th year of the republic) and says like
America's plan of Turkey...
Europe's plan of Turkey....
Kurds's plan of Turkey..
Turkey's plan of Turkey..
etc.
Don't want to discuss any of these.
However, there is also another part, Israel's plan of Middle East:
It shows the whole middle east ( including southern Turkey ) as a place called " Grand Israel " (links can be given for those who want ) and do you think it may be possible one day ?
Because as long as USA lives, Israel will be the tyrant of Middle East, around 10 years later IMO.

And extremeists are a problem, yes, but Israel isn't ?
If Israel wasn't there there wouldn't be any war in M.E. ( Islamic nations wouldn't figt against themselves )

I apologize for my statement, and there I wanted to mean Israel, not jews ( I have jew friends too and I don't have problesm with them ) but that wasn't what I wrote.
Israel is a burden of Middle East, and either Islamic states or Israel will survive

[Amnesiac]

The real source of this entire problem is religion. There wouldn't be any problems in the Middle East if religion were no longer part of human culture. It would just be a desert, and everyone would live peacefully.

Looking at the Israel situation from a broad and simplified viewpoint, it's the fault of both sides. Israel and the U.S. are bringing too much conflict to one of the most fought-over regions on Earth. The Palestinians don't seem to be doing anything to promote a peaceful mix of the three monotheistic religions in the area. In the end, everyone's an asshole.

[Sage]

The real source of this entire problem is religion. There wouldn't be any problems in the Middle East if religion were no longer part of human culture. It would just be a desert, and everyone would live peacefully.

Looking at the Israel situation from a broad and simplified viewpoint, it's the fault of both sides. Israel and the U.S. are bringing too much conflict to one of the most fought-over regions on Earth. The Palestinians don't seem to be doing anything to promote a peaceful mix of the three monotheistic religions in the area. In the end, everyone's an asshole.

I second these sentiments. It's not even a very nice area- Were I God, my holy land would probably be in Hawaii or Cuba or Japan. Much, much prettier areas.

[huginnmuninn]

I second these sentiments. It's not even a very nice area- Were I God, my holy land would probably be in Hawaii or Cuba or Japan. Much, much prettier areas.

but sadly you arent god

who started the wars over there or have there always been wars? Im pretty sure in the bible it has like a thousand wars in the M.E. Maybe Isreal helped provoke other nations but i dont think isreal started the war

[Rainstorm]

Ah, what would the world be like without religion....


Seems rather peaceful, seeing as the conflicts between Judaism, Islam and Christianity is the main friction point in the Middle East.

[The Batman]

Ah, what would the world be like without religion....


Seems rather peaceful, seeing as the conflicts between Judaism, Islam and Christianity is the main friction point in the Middle East.

I'm pretty sure they'd find something else to fight over.

I haven't kept up with the Israel thing in a few years but like most others have said both sides are at fault.

[Rainstorm]

I'm pretty sure they'd find something else to fight over.

I haven't kept up with the Israel thing in a few years but like most others have said both sides are at fault.

Eh, but you had to admit, the world would be a great deal less violent without religious conflicts. Even with the oil crap and stuff like that.

[The Batman]

Eh, but you had to admit, the world would be a great deal less violent without religious conflicts. Even with the oil crap and stuff like that.

Nope, the real problem isn't religion it's people they take whatever they can and make it into what they want to believe so even without religion there would be conflict and fighting it'll probably be from people claiming birth rights or something to that sorts.

[Magus]

The land was always desert until the Zionist went there and made it green.

Agreed. It will be more greener when they remove the olive tree farms.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_qUFDMUpk9jE/SZlEk05uOrI/AAAAAAAAPmk/RXmSaVN2cGg/s400/DSCF0035.jpg
http://electronicintifada.net/artman2/uploads/1/070612-budrus-interview-01.jpg
http://www.israellycool.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/IDF-grabber2.jpg

[Whisper]

http://www.israellycool.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/IDF-grabber2.jpg

Is it just me or does that thing remind you of Avatar?
like that big machine they had leveling the forest with the bullet proof windows and all the security around it

[Magus]

Is it just me or does that thing remind you of Avatar?
like that big machine they had leveling the forest with the bullet proof windows and all the security around it

Exactly. But don't worry, it will be greener, after they build silver lined buildings and grey roads where the "Desert" was.

[Sith Lord 13]

but sadly you arent god

Somebody hasn't read Sage's sig.

[Continuum]

but sadly you arent god


He is. He is a God; and sadly, he is the God of Gods too.


Actually, just after the formation of the State of Israel, they treated Palestinians like shit because they wanted more land for the Jews. They don't want smelly old sandbags to occupy their homeland (which they own in the first place; but was overturned at certain points in history), and acted all gracious and dominant over them.

Not to sound all racist and all; but in my opinion, Jews were the first racist people in ancient times all around. Think about it; everyone who's not a jew for them, would not be saved? Pretty isolating, especially in ancient times.

[Magus]

Not to sound all racist and all; but in my opinion, Jews were the first racist people in ancient times all around. Think about it; everyone who's not a jew for them, would not be saved? Pretty isolating, especially in ancient times.

Judaism is a religion, not a race. But obviously, those who call themselves as sons of Israel, those are the people who cover their hides behind the Holocaust and treat people like shit.

He is. He is a God; and sadly, he is the God of Gods too.
He created my God. The God of Banana!

[CaptainObvious]

Not to sound all racist and all; but in my opinion, Jews were the first racist people in ancient times all around. Think about it; everyone who's not a jew for them, would not be saved? Pretty isolating, especially in ancient times.

Maybe, but it's far from clear that the Jews were the first to promote this kind of religious thought. They are the oldest surviving religion to have done so, true, but there was religion in the world before Judaism that has not survived.

[ShyGuyInChicago]

Judaism is a religion, not a race. But obviously, those who call themselves as sons of Israel, those are the people who cover their hides behind the Holocaust and treat people like shit.


He created my God. The God of Banana!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_ethnic_divisions

Judaism is a religion; being a Jew can be considered being part of an ethnic group.

[welcome_to_chaos]

not to push believes on anyone but it says in the torah and the bible that there will never be peace in the middle east till god destroys those not faithful or saved..depending on which u read

[Magus]

Judaism is a religion; being a Jew can be considered being part of an ethnic group.

That's shameful in my opinion.

[Continuum]

That's shameful in my opinion.

It's already stereotypical when it comes to Jews: Being a follower of Judaism.

I feel it's already a form of racism. No one in actuality followed Judaism during ancient times but the Semite peoples of Israel.

[Whisper]

This made me lol
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/Iluminati/1286664270829.jpg

But it raises a good point (i dunno if the stats r true er not, i do know Israel costs allot tho)
considering the economic recession why does the States (and other western nations) continue to financially support Israel?


EDIT:

Benefits to Israel of U.S. Aid
Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)

Foreign Aid Grants and Loans
$74,157,600,000

Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)
$9,047,227,200

Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments
$1,650,000,000

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630

Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S.
Aid to Israel

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$49,936,680,000

Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,791,507,200

Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli
$23,240

SOURCE:
http://www.wrmea.org/special-topics/9748-us-aid-to-israel.html

[mrmcdonaldduck]

EDIT:

Benefits to Israel of U.S. Aid
Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)

Foreign Aid Grants and Loans
$74,157,600,000

Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)
$9,047,227,200

Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments
$1,650,000,000

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630

Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S.
Aid to Israel

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$49,936,680,000

Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,791,507,200

Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli
$23,240

SOURCE:
http://www.wrmea.org/special-topics/9748-us-aid-to-israel.html

Wouldnt all that aid do better in poor african nations? Israel is capable of looking after themselves now, and will NOT pay back america in any way.

[Whisper]

Wouldnt all that aid do better in poor african nations? Israel is capable of looking after themselves now, and will NOT pay back america in any way.

i'd put it towards americas education system, infrastructure, new orleans, etc...


but ya i honestly dont understand why the west supports them so much especially considering their actions
its ironic cause Israel, the Jewish nation has themselves committed Nuremberg crimes against Palestinians

[Sith Lord 13]

Wouldnt all that aid do better in poor african nations? Israel is capable of looking after themselves now, and will NOT pay back america in any way.

Except for providing a foothold in the middle east to protect our interests.

[Whisper]

Except for providing a foothold in the middle east to protect our interests.

I know thats the first thing i thought as well but it seems to be a rather expensive beachhead. Nine billion? and its contributing massively to severe middle east insecurity, its severely harming the american reputation abroad, etc.... Then you look at the other military outposts in the immediate area and frankly, Israels assistance isn't required. The problems and cost seem to far outweigh the gains.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/images/empire/intervention/middleastmap.gif

http://acnu-slsj.uqac.ca/ACNU_dossiers/DufourJ2007a_En_fichiers/map_the_centro_asian_ring.gif

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=5564

[Azunite]

Agreed.
And there are many miltiary bases in Turkey too, except those are shown in map.

[Magus]

http://acnu-slsj.uqac.ca/ACNU_dossiers/DufourJ2007a_En_fichiers/map_the_centro_asian_ring.gif
-Not related- I am from the no.2 people! What really bothers me is that Jundallah's leader admitted that he got help by the CIA and some other thing. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed would have been a cool agent... shame.

Oh, yes. Baluch favours the Israeli cause, somehow.

Click me (http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.culture.pakistan.politics/2010-01/msg00026.html)
Click me (http://www.imadahmed.com/689038402/jews-for-peace-parallels-between-pakistan-and-israel/)

Baluchistan is an intense regional critical point for the U.S. Lest they help the Baluch against Iran, then they will be left with the fear of Baluch attacking their allies, the Pakistanis. Facing a serious dilemma, here.