EU to force Turkey to remove the portraits of Kemal Atatürk

[Azunite]

I know that Turkey won't go to EU since EU is a Christian Union (dont deny it) But our government is too excited to go there lol, and one of the new conditions they put on the line in order for Turkey to go into EU is that :

"All portraits of Atatürk shall be removed fro Government Offices."
Do you think it is right?
Because we have portraits of Atatürk at school, at government offices, at some shops ( if they want ) and from where I am sitting it is impossible to remove them, as long as we Kemalists.

Do you think it should be forced to remove portraits from government offices? Because it has moral effect on people in Turkey, because if he didn't live, we wouldn't too...

We won't ever do that, but in my opinion it is totally wrong, do you think it is wrong too ?

[Whisper]

I don't know who that is....

[CaptainObvious]

Can you substantiate this with a source of some kind? I can't find anything about it, but it may just be hard to find on English-language sites.

[Azunite]

I don't know who that is....

If you don't know who he is, then you are living on Moon ...

Well I haven't searched this on net but,
I remember it was on news once and it showed many politicians went on a rage,
Our history teacher mentioned about this.
But if I find at least a Turkish link, I would still post here, and proove that it is not fake

Addition: So I have found some Turkish forum sites that protest the EU statement about removing the portratis from government offices. But still no information from websites like xxxnews.com etc....

[Whisper]

If you don't know who he is, then you are living on Moon ...
No I just know very little about Turkey's history its not a commonwealth nation, its nowhere near Canada, nor a world power, or a main trading partner with Canada. It was a simple question really, I don't expect you to know all about Canada's influential leaders, don't worry I googled it.

And just so we're clear, a place on the moon would be fucking awesome! I'd be totally cool with that.

[Azunite]

Yeah, who wouldn't ?
And all you care about is Canada?
I can't believe American or Western powers !
Asia knows everything about Europe yet Europe knows nothing about Asia !
Oh by the way, you should know Atatürk because he beat England, France, America, Greece, Armenia, Arabs and CANADA singlehandedly a Turkish War of Independence.

[Perseus]

And all you care about is Canada?
I can't believe American or Western powers !


He never said that. And, kids in America don't really learn about the East until high school(fourteen). And as he said, Turkey is not a world power, nor should we(the West) really know about its history. I find it more important to know about one's own country before they know about another's.

[huginnmuninn]

Yeah, who wouldn't ?
And all you care about is Canada?
I can't believe American or Western powers !
Asia knows everything about Europe yet Europe knows nothing about Asia !
Oh by the way, you should know Atatürk because he beat England, France, America, Greece, Armenia, Arabs and CANADA singlehandedly a Turkish War of Independence.

actually America didnt participate in the Turkish War of Independence the Americans went back to America after the end of WW1

but Turkey shouldnt be forced tor remove portraits of Kemal Atatürk

[Amnesiac]

I know that Turkey won't go to EU since EU is a Christian Union (dont deny it) But our government is too excited to go there lol, and one of the new conditions they put on the line in order for Turkey to go into EU is that :

"All portraits of Atatürk shall be removed fro Government Offices."
Do you think it is right?
Because we have portraits of Atatürk at school, at government offices, at some shops ( if they want ) and from where I am sitting it is impossible to remove them, as long as we Kemalists.

Do you think it should be forced to remove portraits from government offices? Because it has moral effect on people in Turkey, because if he didn't live, we wouldn't too...

We won't ever do that, but in my opinion it is totally wrong, do you think it is wrong too ?

It may be a slightly offensive gesture, but it's up to the EU what terms and conditions they impose on Turkey for them to join. Face it, the EU is exclusive, if you want to join you have to follow their rules. Don't like the rules? Don't join. I disagree with the EU as well, he seems like he was a good leader, but I doubt their motivation for such things is based on religion — most European countries, especially France, are overwhelmingly secular.

[mrmcdonaldduck]

I know that Turkey won't go to EU since EU is a Christian Union (dont deny it) But our government is too excited to go there lol, and one of the new conditions they put on the line in order for Turkey to go into EU is that :

"All portraits of Atatürk shall be removed fro Government Offices."
Do you think it is right?
Because we have portraits of Atatürk at school, at government offices, at some shops ( if they want ) and from where I am sitting it is impossible to remove them, as long as we Kemalists.

Do you think it should be forced to remove portraits from government offices? Because it has moral effect on people in Turkey, because if he didn't live, we wouldn't too...

We won't ever do that, but in my opinion it is totally wrong, do you think it is wrong too ?

HAHAHA, i am probably one of the only people to know who he is, and what he did. At least millitarily. He was the Turkish commander at Gallipoli, and he was very successful at what he did. I know and respect him, because it was against him that Australians fought there first battle. Then i think he helped set up modern turkey, or something like that, i don't really know after his millitary things. :/

I am very disappointed that the EU decided to do this, this man is a hero to the turks, he defeated a foreign force, and helped set up modern turkey after the empire fell. Why would they want this? Is it because he is in someway a bad person? Did he do something wrong?

[jason93]

I know who Atatürk is (I have lots of time for reading) and I don't see why he should have his picture taken down. He is not a religious figure he is the founding father of Modern Turkey.

It would be like demanding the United States to take down images / statues of its founding fathers.

[Azunite]

Thanks for the guys who contributed in the real subject.
Like you guys we have no idea why they want to remove them.

No he is not a bad person, if he was bad we wouldn't have pictures around of him right ? Thanks to him, we use Latin alphabet, we have schools, we don't have a religious oppression, w don't have Islamic cults popping out of everywhere, we have factories of our own, we have an internal economy ( by this I mean like Ottoman Empire produced nothing in it's last century ) we wear modern clothes, woman have rights :
By the way I wan't to have some attention here,
We are a Muslim state but...
Turkish women were the first in the world to go to elections, to be chosen as governors, mayors, Prime Ministers...
And if it wasn't for Atatürk to proove that Turkish nation can do the impossible ( Since the beggining of 1600, Ottoman Empire was in a full retreat, since the Siege of Vienna, so he removed that little piece of bad luck ) we lazy people would still sit in our farms, with European powers above us, there woudln't be "Republic of Türkiye"

Here is my opinion ( of course I am kidding here )
It is a fact that a lot of nations saw Atatürk's actions against imperialism and therefore revoletd against their oppressors and founded today's republic. Maybe they are mad at Atatürk for this :P

[Tiberius]

The EU doesn't like Turkey; it's as simple as that. They are trying to do a lot you insult you guys and it will just keep coming. It's not because they didn't like Atatürk.

[Whisper]

It sounds like he was a great general the problem I bet some of the EU leaders are having, is he was the enemy. He fought against the allies and aligned himself with russia (according to wiki)

It may be a slightly offensive gesture, but it's up to the EU what terms and conditions they impose on Turkey for them to join. Face it, the EU is exclusive, if you want to join you have to follow their rules. Don't like the rules? Don't join. I disagree with the EU as well, he seems like he was a good leader, but I doubt their motivation for such things is based on religion — most European countries, especially France, are overwhelmingly secular.

Agreed.
Don't like it, don't join.


Thanks for the guys who contributed in the real subject.

Considering I asked a simple question, ur very hostile.

Like you guys we have no idea why they want to remove them.

No he is not a bad person, if he was bad we wouldn't have pictures around of him right ? Thanks to him, we use Latin alphabet, we have schools, we don't have a religious oppression, w don't have Islamic cults popping out of everywhere, we have factories of our own, we have an internal economy ( by this I mean like Ottoman Empire produced nothing in it's last century ) we wear modern clothes, woman have rights :
By the way I wan't to have some attention here,
We are a Muslim state but...
Turkish women were the first in the world to go to elections, to be chosen as governors, mayors, Prime Ministers...
And if it wasn't for Atatürk to proove that Turkish nation can do the impossible ( Since the beggining of 1600, Ottoman Empire was in a full retreat, since the Siege of Vienna, so he removed that little piece of bad luck ) we lazy people would still sit in our farms, with European powers above us, there woudln't be "Republic of Türkiye"

Here is my opinion ( of course I am kidding here )
It is a fact that a lot of nations saw Atatürk's actions against imperialism and therefore revoletd against their oppressors and founded today's republic. Maybe they are mad at Atatürk for this :P

I think the resistance to turkey joining the EU goes far deeper then a portrat
After a little investigation I think there are many reasons why member nations are hesitant, and frankly I agree with them.
economically
politically
socially
culturally
religiously
geographically
Security risks
mass immigration influx
ect...


example:
VUfE1_Da8mw

hCZSnmq-qHw&NR=1


I'm not attacking Turkey
I think that Turkey and the EU should have a strong partnership, but I dont think they should be a full member state, they're to different on soooo many levels.

Canada and the United States have the largest trading partnership on the planet, we have more agreements, treaties, accords, partnerships, etc... between our two nations than anyone else, from NAFTA to NORAD and everything inbetween. We share the longest unmilatarized boarder in the world and a partnership that spans some two hundred years.

I love America as much as I love Canada, I consider them brothers. But we are two independent nations. I highly doubt a NAU will ever happen, on allot of core levels we differ greatly so although we're great allies we will never inact similar rules to the EU member nations.

I honestly think Turkey should have a similar relationship with the EU
I think you should be very close allies but remain independent and go about your own thing

[Azunite]

Why the hell are you talking about Canada and the US all time? We are talking about eu

[jason93]

It is unfortunate that Turkey was not the shining example to other areas of the world where there is an Islamic majority.

The one thing I love about Turkey is freedom of religion... that is you're free to practice religion but it is a private matter and not one for the public... much like France.

[The Dark Lord]

Yeah, who wouldn't ?
And all you care about is Canada?
I can't believe American or Western powers !
Asia knows everything about Europe yet Europe knows nothing about Asia !
Oh by the way, you should know Atatürk because he beat England, France, America, Greece, Armenia, Arabs and CANADA singlehandedly a Turkish War of Independence.

The reason reason Europe is so ignorant towards Asia is simply because only China and India are worth caring about. These countries with their strong economies are the West's only threat, Turkey means nothing to Europe, absolutely nothing. Whether this is right or wrong is debatable, but this is the truth.


We are a Muslim state
but
woman have rights :

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't muslims one of the most sexist and repressive group of people in the world

It is a fact that a lot of nations saw Atatürk's actions against imperialism and therefore revoletd against their oppressors and founded today's republic. Maybe they are mad at Atatürk for this :P

I don't think Ataturk is the issue here, its a case of the EU not wanting Turkey to join, Ataturk is just the latest excuse and these excuses will continue until Turkey get the message

And if it wasn't for Atatürk to proove that Turkish nation can do the impossible ( Since the beggining of 1600, Ottoman Empire was in a full retreat, since the Siege of Vienna, so he removed that little piece of bad luck ) we lazy people would still sit in our farms, with European powers above us, there woudln't be "Republic of Türkiye"

That is just stupid. To suggest that without one man, Ataturk, Turkey would still rely on a farming industry will the rest of the world has modernised is so stupid its actually insulting. No man could ever have that effect. You say you speak latin, translate this: Post hoc ergo propter hoc

[Perseus]

Why the hell are you talking about Canada and the US all time? We are talking about eu
He was using it show how Turkey should be with EU.



That is just stupid. To suggest that without one man, Ataturk, Turkey would still rely on a farming industry will the rest of the world has modernised is so stupid its actually insulting. No man could ever have that effect. You say you speak latin, translate this: Post hoc ergo propter hoc

He never said he spoke Latin; he said Turkey uses the Latin alphabet like the West does.

[Azunite]

Yeah, I said we use latin alphabet.

""Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceOfMadness
We are a Muslim state

but

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceOfMadness
woman have rights :

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't muslims one of the most sexist and repressive group of people in the world"""

? That only applies to İran and Saudi Arabia. Woman have righs here as men do.
By insult you mean all those men who fought against imperial pwoers and saved the nation? I just meant that if Atatürk didn't lead us there wouldn't be a republic.

[The Dark Lord]

Yeah, I said we use latin alphabet.

""Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceOfMadness
We are a Muslim state

but

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrinceOfMadness
woman have rights :

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't muslims one of the most sexist and repressive group of people in the world"""

? That only applies to İran and Saudi Arabia. Woman have righs here as men do.
.

I wasn't asking about Iran and Saudi Arabia, I was asking about Islam and Muslims

By insult you mean all those men who fought against imperial pwoers and saved the nation? I just meant that if Atatürk didn't lead us there wouldn't be a republic.

What I meant was if you think Ataturk is solely responsible for leading Turkey to a republic and transforming Turkey by modernising it, then you are insulting the intelligence of every single person who reads and posts on this forum. Although you do also belittle the achievements of others involved in the struggle

[karl]

Of course it's wrong, but be thankful the EU doesn't want you. You have nothing to gain, except rules and regulations from unelected bloated Eurocrats in Brussels telling you what you can or cannot do. Before our grandchildren are born the EU will be a past nightmare and its corrupt leaders rotting in prison

[Azunite]

Yeah, EUs done for anyway ( thanks to good old Portugal and Greece )

[scuba steve]

Yeah, EUs done for anyway ( thanks to good old Portugal and Greece )

or the more likely outcome of it becoming more or less one unified country similar to the United States of America with it's member country's being member states of the Union. Which is the main aim here. the EU overall has greatly benefited Europe along the lines of its trade agreements allowing many small national companies to expand into the rest of Europe, also bringing the various country's that have historically been enemies then allies, then enemy's again ect together under one consulate. The only flaw to the European Union is the non elected government officials, busting everyones balls and playing with themeselves, but like it or not the European Union is here to stay.
The 21st century is not about Culture, Creed, Morals. It is solely Economics.

[The Dark Lord]

Of course it's wrong, but be thankful the EU doesn't want you. You have nothing to gain, except rules and regulations from unelected bloated Eurocrats in Brussels telling you what you can or cannot do. Before our grandchildren are born the EU will be a past nightmare and its corrupt leaders rotting in prison

Couldn't agree more.

[Azunite]

or the more likely outcome of it becoming more or less one unified country similar to the United States of America with it's member country's being member states of the Union. Which is the main aim here. the EU overall has greatly benefited Europe along the lines of its trade agreements allowing many small national companies to expand into the rest of Europe, also bringing the various country's that have historically been enemies then allies, then enemy's again ect together under one consulate. The only flaw to the European Union is the non elected government officials, busting everyones balls and playing with themeselves, but like it or not the European Union is here to stay.
The 21st century is not about Culture, Creed, Morals. It is solely Economics.

Agreed, though I would want to get back to the main topic :)

[The Dark Lord]

Agreed, though I would want to get back to the main topic :)

Karl is right. The EU are control freaks, destroying the UK and are edging towards a United States of Europe. This is why portraits of Ataturk aren't allowed.

[scuba steve]

Karl is right. The EU are control freaks, destroying the UK and are edging towards a United States of Europe. This is why portraits of Ataturk aren't allowed.

well yea, that's been the ideal outcome for the EU since the 50's :P

[Whisper]

Why the hell are you talking about Canada and the US all time? We are talking about eu

LOL R U MAD

Actually we're talking about turkey and its desire to join the EU and the conflicts and issues arising from the changes that would be required if that we're ever to happen.

I love how that was your response to my entire post tho
you completely ignored everything else.
Considering you want to join a major western power you're rather hostile towards the west.

[scuba steve]

LOL R U MAD

Actually we're talking about turkey and its desire to join the EU and the conflicts and issues arising from the changes that would be required if that we're ever to happen.

I love how that was your response to my entire post tho
you completely ignored everything else.
Considering you want to join a major western power you're rather hostile towards the west.

i completly agree with you, i have spoken with this guy quite a few times with pleasent words shared but if the way he has responded to fellow forum members this way in a political based debate gives us quite a bad review of the ignorance your country holds as a whole. Preposterous that one would think that after a single experience with a single person but that's the way impressions work. :(

[Azunite]

I am not hostile to West, since Turkey is a western country ( it is officialy a western country, though most of itis in east )
Anyway, it is not Turkey's desire to go to EU, it is our prime minister's desire.
If w go to EU, we will be forced to close down all open-air markets ( yeah tahts one of the conditions of goin in there ) and many people wll be unemployeed then

[The Dark Lord]

I am not hostile to West, since Turkey is a western country ( it is officialy a western country, though most of itis in east )
Anyway, it is not Turkey's desire to go to EU, it is our prime minister's desire.
If w go to EU, we will be forced to close down all open-air markets ( yeah tahts one of the conditions of goin in there ) and many people wll be unemployeed then

You are hostile to the West, everyone who has read this thread will agree with me.

[scuba steve]

I am not hostile to West, since Turkey is a western country ( it is officialy a western country, though most of itis in east )
Anyway, it is not Turkey's desire to go to EU, it is our prime minister's desire.
If w go to EU, we will be forced to close down all open-air markets ( yeah tahts one of the conditions of goin in there ) and many people wll be unemployeed then

open air markets cannot be controlled hygiene, quality and safety which are crucial factors of EU's plan for product sales. Turkey is a part of the Middle East region which officially is in Asia.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4ojR_rxRU8U/SIh-wIIHbfI/AAAAAAAACLQ/4Hn4u1GQmt0/s400/MapMiddleEast.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_%28orthographic_projection%29.svg

[Azunite]

Yeah, they cannot be controlled by hygiene but these markets are ages old and they only sell fruits and veggies, you would wash them when you go home anyway :)

And yes, I know the Area called Middle East.
As you can see, İstanbul-Edirne-Kırklareli area ( Rumelia ) is counted as Europe. And easternmonst Russa is also counted as Europe.
And if you look at lower-economical activites ( by that I mean like travellng etc. ) it is counted as Europe.

[Whisper]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world
Turkey being counted as a western nation is debatable at best


K i'm going to ask you another question hopefully you'll answer this one.

Why do you believe Turkey should or should not join the European Union?

At the beginning of the thread u seem to be for it then you seemed to have switched and are now stating its only the leaders that desire it.

[CaptainObvious]

I hate to rain on the parade, but I still have yet to see any substantiation for this claim. I'm starting to suspect, therefore, that it isn't true.

For reference, this thread is the first result when I Google to try and find sourcing.

[Whisper]

I hate to rain on the parade, but I still have yet to see any substantiation for this claim. I'm starting to suspect, therefore, that it isn't true.

For reference, this thread is the first result when I Google to try and find sourcing.

In regards to the portrat?
Ya I couldn't find that either
So I slightly expanded the topic :)

[scuba steve]

Yeah, they cannot be controlled by hygiene but these markets are ages old and they only sell fruits and veggies, you would wash them when you go home anyway :)

And yes, I know the Area called Middle East.
As you can see, İstanbul-Edirne-Kırklareli area ( Rumelia ) is counted as Europe. And easternmonst Russa is also counted as Europe.
And if you look at lower-economical activites ( by that I mean like travellng etc. ) it is counted as Europe.
it completly depends on what values your looking at it i guess, politically, geographically and based on culture wise.

I hate to rain on the parade, but I still have yet to see any substantiation for this claim. I'm starting to suspect, therefore, that it isn't true.

For reference, this thread is the first result when I Google to try and find sourcing.

that actually made me laugh really hard for some reason :P

[Azunite]

First of all I wanna say something:
Southern Africa? West? These guys serious ? And there is Israel ( or is that Jordan, can't see well from here )

Second, my answer...

We shouldn't be in the Union
Why? Because I think it won't last for long, and Turkey has a steadily growing economy ( at least that's what they say :P ) and EU's economy is growing though it could have been better if they didn't spend their half of money to a dead country, Greece.

And Captain Obivous, I can give you dozens of Turkish links but I too, can't find any english discussions about it.

[CaptainObvious]

Turkish news sites/other reliable sources, or some kind of Turkish forum discussion like this? The latter isn't a source.

[scuba steve]

First of all I wanna say something:
Southern Africa? West? These guys serious ? And there is Israel ( or is that Jordan, can't see well from here )

Second, my answer...

We shouldn't be in the Union
Why? Because I think it won't last for long, and Turkey has a steadily growing economy ( at least that's what they say :P ) and EU's economy is growing though it could have been better if they didn't spend their half of money to a dead country, Greece.

And Captain Obivous, I can give you dozens of Turkish links but I too, can't find any english discussions about it.

What the F are you bringing regions of Africa in for :eek::confused:

Turkey will eventually join the EU as i've said whether it wants to or not. Stable nations have declared that they have no desire for wars but instead have moved the frontlines to the stock markets.
And also why are you so hostile in your perception of everyother country on this thread other than "Glorious" Turkey?

[Azunite]

Will you check the link that Whisper gave? It is udner the title, Western World but it has South Africa :D

Did you said your last sentence because you didn't understand the Africa thing ? I don't have any hostilities to other nations, and I don't call Turkey "Glorious" :)

[scuba steve]

dead country, Greece.

that to me is pretty hostile.

[Perseus]

First of all I wanna say something:
Southern Africa? West? These guys serious ? And there is Israel ( or is that Jordan, can't see well from here )

Second, my answer...

We shouldn't be in the Union
Why? Because I think it won't last for long, and Turkey has a steadily growing economy ( at least that's what they say :P ) and EU's economy is growing though it could have been better if they didn't spend their half of money to a dead country, Greece.

And Captain Obivous, I can give you dozens of Turkish links but I too, can't find any english discussions about it.

I am interested to see; my browser has a built in translator, so it shouldn't be a problem if you linked us to Turkish sites.

[Azunite]

Well it includes swearing in it so..
And translators don't work %100 correctly but heck, here are the links.
And this is forum talk, we write "Merhaba, nasılsın ? " like " Mrhba, naslsn?" so you won't get a lot of info :
http://forum.bjkonline.com/atatuerk-resmi-kaldirilacak-t852.html?
http://turkyurdu-haberler.blogspot.com/2007/08/atatrk-resimleri-kaldiriliyor.html
http://www.balkanlar.net/forum/index.php?topic=4932.0

And I said Greece is a dead country because of it's economy ( I didn't want to mention 2 century old feud )

[Whisper]

It mentions areas of previous western empires throughout history aka the old western world.
It also clearly states that Turkey is not generally considered a member of the modern western world, its a gateway between east and west.

As for Greece they're having a rough time right now so is portugal, spain and ireland, a prime example of how the EU needs to sort out its existing member nations and the policies that govern them before they should be considering more additions period, but thats a completely different topic.

[The Dark Lord]

First of all I wanna say something:
Southern Africa? West? These guys serious ? And there is Israel ( or is that Jordan, can't see well from here )

Second, my answer...

We shouldn't be in the Union
Why? Because I think it won't last for long, and Turkey has a steadily growing economy ( at least that's what they say :P ) and EU's economy is growing though it could have been better if they didn't spend their half of money to a dead country, Greece.

And Captain Obivous, I can give you dozens of Turkish links but I too, can't find any english discussions about it.

I am beginning to doubt your claim. No one seems to have found any evidence, and if they had if Turkey isn't in the EU, then the EU has no authority to tell Turkey what to do. I don't think the EU is on the verge of collapse. Germany is still too strong economically for it to collapse for economic reasons, and Cameron/Hague too weak to stand up to it in terms of state sovernity, the EU is here to stay and we can only hope it doesn't get any stronger

[scuba steve]

I am beginning to doubt your claim. No one seems to have found any evidence, and if they had if Turkey isn't in the EU, then the EU has no authority to tell Turkey what to do. I don't think the EU is on the verge of collapse. Germany is still too strong economically for it to collapse for economic reasons, and Cameron/Hague too weak to stand up to it in terms of state sovernity, the EU is here to stay and we can only hope it doesn't get any stronger

You know it will, the only way for the European countries to economically succeed is to become one "Europa"

[The Dark Lord]

You know it will, the only way for the European countries to economically succeed is to become one "Europa"

Perhaps, but the british willn't tolerate it, if we did move towards one "Europa", I can't see Britain becoming a part of it. We're too Eurosceptic and patriotic and British Foreign policy allies ourself more closely to the Americans, with India becoming the next target

[CaptainObvious]

Well it includes swearing in it so..
And translators don't work %100 correctly but heck, here are the links.
And this is forum talk, we write "Merhaba, nasılsın ? " like " Mrhba, naslsn?" so you won't get a lot of info :
http://forum.bjkonline.com/atatuerk-resmi-kaldirilacak-t852.html?
http://turkyurdu-haberler.blogspot.com/2007/08/atatrk-resimleri-kaldiriliyor.html
http://www.balkanlar.net/forum/index.php?topic=4932.0

And I said Greece is a dead country because of it's economy ( I didn't want to mention 2 century old feud )

Those are all forums or blogs, and are therefore not reliable sources. Are you telling me there is not a single (even Turkish-language) news source that has reported this news? It's probably not true, then.

[scuba steve]

Perhaps, but the british willn't tolerate it, if we did move towards one "Europa", I can't see Britain becoming a part of it. We're too Eurosceptic and patriotic and British Foreign policy allies ourself more closely to the Americans, with India becoming the next target

Britons are stubborn, dwindling to our history of past success and dominance, we may have a stronger link to the U.S compared to the rest of the E.U but how long do you think we can play the game of being their lapdog, which is more or less what the whole Bush/Blair era was. As much as i hate to say it i don't see any other choice, once the pound goes under the Euro that's when i imagine we'll start to realise.

India? India is fighting a losing war of Asian dominance with China.

[Peace God]

Will you check the link that Whisper gave? It is udner the title, Western World but it has South Africa :D

i can understand south africa being a western nation

[The Dark Lord]

Britons are stubborn, dwindling to our history of past success and dominance, we may have a stronger link to the U.S compared to the rest of the E.U but how long do you think we can play the game of being their lapdog, which is more or less what the whole Bush/Blair era was. As much as i hate to say it i don't see any other choice, once the pound goes under the Euro that's when i imagine we'll start to realise.

India? India is fighting a losing war of Asian dominance with China.

The Euro will go down before the british pound. I agree with you but India and America are natural allies, not Germany and France. The recession has proven that the Euro is not a strong currency, with too low interests rates that have destroyed Ireland and Greece

[Azunite]

Completely agreed with Matty there folks...
And Cap. Obvious, this "Picture" thing is very old, there is a possibiltiy that news websites deleted that, but I remember seeing the news at NTV News ( a turkish news channel )
In my opinion, Europe is one thing, and UK is another.
UK will always be diffrent ( with is calculation system ( not using metric system i.e.), with it's currency etc... ) and it will always depend on itself to be a super-power so when Europe falls England will emerge still strong with a rich economy

[CaptainObvious]

Completely agreed with Matty there folks...
And Cap. Obvious, this "Picture" thing is very old, there is a possibiltiy that news websites deleted that, but I remember seeing the news at NTV News ( a turkish news channel )
In my opinion, Europe is one thing, and UK is another.
UK will always be diffrent ( with is calculation system ( not using metric system i.e.), with it's currency etc... ) and it will always depend on itself to be a super-power so when Europe falls England will emerge still strong with a rich economy

News sites don't delete things wholesale. Your excuses for not being able to find a single legitimate source for this claim are weak, and at this point it seems almost guaranteed that this isn't true.

Feel free to find me at least one verifiable news source, though.

[Azunite]

I'll make you know.

Well our history teacher talks about it, news talked about it once, my dad talked about it several times and I never bothered myself to look for any links :D

[Asylum]

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't muslims one of the most sexist and repressive group of people in the world Islam is not a sexist relgion. I am a Muslim woman. It is optional to wear a hijab http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVcTgs6kyTo. women wear the hijab and modest dress to get respect. their focus is on God. Now women sitting in the back of mosques are because men won't stare at women, and they won't get tempted... in Turkey the hijab is optional. Women dont have to wear it, it's there choice. Women have rights just as much as any man.



Now to get back to the topic... i agree with you Cengiz, i don't understand why they are making Turkey take down his pictures, i disagree with it entirely, and hope they will have a change of heart.

[The Dark Lord]

I'll make you know.

Well our history teacher talks about it, news talked about it once, my dad talked about it several times and I never bothered myself to look for any links :D

Islam is not a sexist relgion. I am a Muslim woman. It is optional to wear a hijab http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVcTgs6kyTo. women wear the hijab and modest dress to get respect. their focus is on God. Now women sitting in the back of mosques are because men won't stare at women, and they won't get tempted... in Turkey the hijab is optional. Women dont have to wear it, it's there choice. Women have rights just as much as any man.



Now to get back to the topic... i agree with you Cengiz, i don't understand why they are making Turkey take down his pictures, i disagree with it entirely, and hope they will have a change of heart.

Will someone please give us a source for this thread!

[scuba steve]

The Euro will go down before the british pound. I agree with you but India and America are natural allies, not Germany and France. The recession has proven that the Euro is not a strong currency, with too low interests rates that have destroyed Ireland and Greece

the Euro has been getting stronger against the pound more or less monthly for the past few years now even through the recession, trying to bring loads of small countries isn't easy so obviously some countries are going to go under but that's what a recession does, there is no way that any European country can last on it's own within the next few decades if things keep going the way they are. And i would no longer class Britain a super power any more than i would Germany. The pound is still strong due to Londons historical economical importance but in my opinion reputation from the past and good diplomatic links are what hold Britain in such high regards.

[Azunite]

:spam: Requesting attention to the real point here, the thing is not about Euro - Pound

[CaptainObvious]

:spam: Requesting attention to the real point here, the thing is not about Euro - Pound

Until you provide at least one source for this claim I don't think anyone is going to be hugely interested in discussing what so far seems just as likely to be untrue or exaggerated.

That said, it's his thread, stay on topic everyone.

[Azunite]

If they don't want to post, it is their choice.
If they want to discuss another thing, they can go one page back and click on "Create a Thread"

[The Dark Lord]

If they don't want to post, it is their choice.
If they want to discuss another thing, they can go one page back and click on "Create a Thread"

Would you please post a reliable source for your thread otherwise its pointless

[Azunite]

Then I am requesting a lock to this post.

[The Dark Lord]

Then I am requesting a lock to this post.

Right, so you don't have any relevant source for your thread, making it pointless

[CaptainObvious]

Then I am requesting a lock to this post.

As you wish.

:locked: