Kennedy

[Scarface]

John F. Kennedy a great president indeed. Worked hard to make everyone on each faction happy though following through with everything that he planned. Though short lived and gunned down on November 22, 1963. Though there was evidence there was two shooters they 'confirmed' it was the one in the book building. Though I saw a movie called The Second Assassin that explains otherwise. I still for a strong theory believe there were TWO assassin's instead of only one. There was the grassy knoll and the book depository, but the most accurate view point and shot vantage is definitely the grassy knoll. I have a few maps with edits to them with VERY likely vantage points and escapes. When you look at gunner #1 of course he has a good vantage point, but it's obvious he would have no escape and basically distract the authorities while gunner #2 escapes. Looking at map #2 he has a parking lot BEHIND the knoll where he could fire and leave, with plenty of escapes. Especially in a frantic situation like that it would be easy because everyone is leaving in a haste.

So tell me what you believe?

[peaceloverugby]

I used to live rather close to Dealey Plaza, and I've driven through there hundreds of times. I've also been to the room in the Book Depository where Oswald shot from. I find it VERY difficult to believe that even a proficient gunman could get off three shots with that kind of rifle at a moving target, let alone at least one kill shot. So I guess I'd say I'm open to the possibility that there was more than one shooter, but I think there are more important things to worry about than who shot JFK forty years ago.

[Scarface]

I used to live rather close to Dealey Plaza, and I've driven through there hundreds of times. I've also been to the room in the Book Depository where Oswald shot from. I find it VERY difficult to believe that even a proficient gunman could get off three shots with that kind of rifle at a moving target, let alone at least one kill shot. So I guess I'd say I'm open to the possibility that there was more than one shooter, but I think there are more important things to worry about than who shot JFK forty years ago.

Of course there are a lot more things to worry about, but this conspiracy seems to be the most valid. Especially with the maps show, the direction and angle of the shot. Ballistics and acoustics maybe the only thing to really work on you're right, I believe it would be a very tough angle to shoot from the book depository, besides from the knoll itself. As it's very convenient, not only escape route wise, but the fact that Lee Harvey was basically a distraction. I think it's a viable theory.

[Perseus]

I used to live rather close to Dealey Plaza, and I've driven through there hundreds of times. I've also been to the room in the Book Depository where Oswald shot from. I find it VERY difficult to believe that even a proficient gunman could get off three shots with that kind of rifle at a moving target, let alone at least one kill shot. So I guess I'd say I'm open to the possibility that there was more than one shooter, but I think there are more important things to worry about than who shot JFK forty years ago.

It's not impossible for a highly trained marksman to shoot a moving target; you lead and compensate.

The thing with your theory, Ron, is surely someone would have noticed some dude running with a gun towards wherever he was running to.

[Raptor22]

It's not impossible for a highly trained marksman to shoot a moving target; you lead and compensate.

The thing with your theory, Ron, is surely someone would have noticed some dude running with a gun towards wherever he was running to.

I know there are people who say they saw a man in a railroad uniform with a long narrow bag behind the grassy knoll shortly after the assassination. The railroad company has no idea about any railworkers in the area that day...

[Scarface]

It's not impossible for a highly trained marksman to shoot a moving target; you lead and compensate.

The thing with your theory, Ron, is surely someone would have noticed some dude running with a gun towards wherever he was running to.

The thing is though, there IS a parking lot directly behind the grassy knoll, so all the shooter had to do was shoot, jump in the car and get out. Plenty of escape routes and with everyone in a panic and moving out of the area in a quick fashion he could have easily escaped.

EDIT: Also the fact is that the rifle used to kill JFK was an Italian made rifle. One accurately used in WWII. Fixed with a scope.

[Perseus]

EDIT: Also the fact is that the rifle used to kill JFK was an Italian made rifle. One accurately used in WWII. Fixed with a scope.

It's not like a skilled marksman wouldn't know how to use it, though. I'm pretty sure he knew how to lead with any kind of scope; I would assume the scope had some kind of measurement system on it.

[Sugaree]

It's not impossible for a highly trained marksman to shoot a moving target; you lead and compensate.

Take a look at this autopsy photo and illustrated drawings. Just a warning, this is pretty graphic and is only being used for the sole purpose of the debate.

http://www.jfklancer.com/pub/md/jfk03clr.JPG

Now, if you look above Kennedy's ear, you will see a bullet hole. Now, since the pictures Ronnie provided show a straight road, how can you suppose that Oswald, who was at an angle where the side of Kennedy's head would have been impossible to hit for an experienced shooter, could create that hole? Oswald can only be credited for at least two shots: one of which hit Kennedy in his neck, exiting under his adam's apple (though the picture doesn't show this, Kennedy's adam's apple did fall out of his throat before the autopsy). Take a look at this drawn portrait illustrating the first shot.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b9/JFK_neck_cross-section.jpg

How about taking a look at the Zapruder film?

I-cri43ttTo

Basic time line in the video:

:10 - Kennedy is shot. He holds both arms to cover his throat, indicating he was shot in the back of the neck. He is also shot under his right shoulder, apparent in another autopsy photo found here (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b6/JFK_posterior_back_wound.jpg).

:20 - Kennedy is shot in the side of his head, going back and to the left. Back and to the left. Back and to the left. This indicated that he was shot from his right side. At the right side is the grassy knoll, which had a fenced parking lot. It is more than obvious that a second shooter was involved.

So as you can see, from Kennedy's position and Oswalt's position combined, it was truly impossible for Kennedy to be killed by one person alone. There are also reports that Zapruder and many other people claimed to have seen a gun barrel on top of the fence for no more than two seconds and disappearing after Kennedy's head was shot from the side.

It seems pretty obvious, not only to me, but many other people that there was more than one shooter. And if weren't for one Jack Ruby, we would have gotten the whole truth out of Oswald, who was near the breaking point during interrogation.

[Scarface]

It's not like a skilled marksman wouldn't know how to use it, though. I'm pretty sure he knew how to lead with any kind of scope; I would assume the scope had some kind of measurement system on it.

As you can see by Matt's evidence as well as my supported maps that this was not only not done by an experienced shooter. Doesn't matter if he had a scope or not. If he had the angle and the precise distance that he obviously had. It proves that there was more than one shooter. if you open up my very first attachment there you will see the car way ahead of the depository. Showing exactly the angle. Now for the second attachment. When you look at the grassy knoll and the real scenery of the knoll itself he would have a vantage point from when he entered Dealey Plaza until he got to the overpass. Also having the time to jump into his car. The autopsy report goes into more detail as Matt has shown where he was shot and the point he was shot twice. This is not by an experienced shooter as he would have been dead from shot one. Seeing as how the depository is in a poor direction, it makes Lee Harvey invalid.

[Perseus]

As you can see by Matt's evidence as well as my supported maps that this was not only not done by an experienced shooter. Doesn't matter if he had a scope or not. If he had the angle and the precise distance that he obviously had. It proves that there was more than one shooter. if you open up my very first attachment there you will see the car way ahead of the depository. Showing exactly the angle. Now for the second attachment. When you look at the grassy knoll and the real scenery of the knoll itself he would have a vantage point from when he entered Dealey Plaza until he got to the overpass. Also having the time to jump into his car. The autopsy report goes into more detail as Matt has shown where he was shot and the point he was shot twice. This is not by an experienced shooter as he would have been dead from shot one. Seeing as how the depository is in a poor direction, it makes Lee Harvey invalid.

I'm not saying there weren't two shooters; you made it seem like no experienced sniper wouldn't be able to shoot a moving target.

[pageplant77]

Yes Kennedy was a great president. But its sort of funny how he was a great president. I mean his only success for pushing policies through congress was the Peace Corps. But Kennedy had a very unique quality about him. He was the handsome young president that brought hope and a peaceful atmosphere to the country. After the paranoia and scare of the Soviet Union of the 1950's, he was pretty much shew-in. He was a breath of fresh air, that would bring inspiration and hope to the nation (Until Johnson f***ed it all up with Vietnam) hence the term "Camelot Kennedy" So in a way, he was the Obama of the day. So all in all Kennedy was a GREAT president, but he would have been better if he could push more policies through congress.

[Sugaree]

I'm not saying there weren't two shooters

Yet that's what you implied very well.

[Perseus]

Yet that's what you implied very well.

Well, Goddamn. I should stop implying things. I was trying to tell him that an experienced sniper knows how to snipe.

[Sugaree]

Well, Goddamn. I should stop implying things. I was trying to tell him that an experienced sniper knows how to snipe.

But that's not the point of the thread. From how your post was worded, it sounded as if you fully believed that Oswalt could have been the only shooter. Thus, I provided proof against this. Wording - it does wonders.

[Perseus]

But that's not the point of the thread. From how your post was worded, it sounded as if you fully believed that Oswalt could have been the only shooter. Thus, I provided proof against this. Wording - it does wonders.

Oh, I was trying to tell him that an experienced sniper can snipe. From the way he worded it, he made it seem like no matter how good of a shot you are, you wouldn't hit Kennedy unless you're Jesus, and even then it's not guaranteed.

[Scarface]

I'm not saying there weren't two shooters; you made it seem like no experienced sniper wouldn't be able to shoot a moving target.
What I was saying was that if you time the shot correctly, have the right distance, wind, speed. You can get it right. Now if this was the work of a real good shooter he would have been dead the first shot down.


I was trying to tell him that an experienced sniper knows how to snipe.
In this case he obviously wasn't on the right aim and didn't get it right the first time.

EDIT: I think I would have said no one could do it. But you have to have it on point and what I was trying to help you understand clearer is that Lee Harvey was no the one with the clear shot. It was the man from the grassy knoll.

[Perseus]

What I was saying was that if you time the shot correctly, have the right distance, wind, speed. You can get it right. Now if this was the work of a real good shooter he would have been dead the first shot down.



In this case he obviously wasn't on the right aim and didn't get it right the first time.

EDIT: I think I would have said no one could do it. But you have to have it on point and what I was trying to help you understand clearer is that Lee Harvey was no the one with the clear shot. It was the man from the grassy knoll.

Obviously, but that's why there are more bullets available. :P

[Jess]

I think Oswald did it....lots of evidence point to this...but who knows?

[Sugaree]

I think Oswald did it....lots of evidence point to this...but who knows?

What evidence? Where's your source?

[Jess]

we learned about it in class.

they found Oswald's prints on the gun...3 witnesses saw a gun on the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository, 3 shells on the 6th floor, Oswald was an Ex-Marine sharpshooter

no source, only from class

[Sugaree]

we learned about it in class.

they found Oswald's prints on the gun...3 witnesses saw a gun on the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository, 3 shells on the 6th floor, Oswald was an Ex-Marine sharpshooter

no source, only from class

That is still a source though. That came from the official government report, which is known to contain many errors and miscalculations. From the autopsy pictures and Zapruder film - along with eyewitness accounts - it's obvious that Oswald could not make that kind of a shot, even if he was the top sharpshooter in he nation.

[Jess]

okay guys, help me here. I'm writing an essay about the assassination. I want to do the conspiracy theory view point and I need a good start on the first evidence. a little help? Due on Monday by the way

well actually I want to start with the fact that JFK's head went back and to the left, so Oswald couldn't have fired the kill shot or whatever...

(oh if this goes off topic tell me and I'll make a new thread)