Is VT too liberal?

[Sage]

This question is specifically addressed to the more conservative members on VT, since I'm pretty curious about their thoughts on the matter. I'm more so curious about social conservatives, not so much fiscal conservatives. More left-wing folks are welcomed to share their thoughts on the matter as well, but I already have an idea of what they'll share so I'm not as interested in such replies.

So, VT conservatives, what do you think?

[Church]

Seems pretty liberal to me so when I give a conservative comment I get like 10 guys talking down to me etc and it gets somewhat old. I wouldnt mind a better balance, would help debates since most are just 'yep your right' towards the op cause everyone tends to agree.

[Perseus]

Yeah, but it's not a bad thing since liberals are usually smarter, and you can have intelligent conversations with them.

[Church]

Well its not an intelligent conversation when 99% of the forum is liberal and everyone is just in agreement, and they are smart here but out where I live they're dumb.

[Rutherford The Brave]

I think there is a significant difference, between people who are liberal like me and people who think they believe in what's ethical, like pro choice etc, etc, etc.

[willrod]

I wouldn't say that VT itself is liberal- I mean, this is just a forum where people come to share ideas. However, several studies have indicated that today's youth tend to be mostly liberal- at least, somewhat more liberal than our parents' generation, and definitely more liberal than our grandparents' generation. It also depends what country, or part of the country you're from. Of course, there are some conservative teens out there, but, well, I don't know what else to say, except that perhaps you should expect it to be majority-liberal on here.

[Syvelocin]

Well, especially since we have a nice LGBT population here, you're going to have a good chunk of liberals, or at least only semi-conservatives (I have many friends who identify with conservatism but for some reason support conservatives while believing in global warming and gay rights)

I think it should be even more liberal... <_<

Really, especially for a help site. Concerning the topics I see and the life I've led, I think liberals would be more helpful. VT was supposedly established around the psych ward anyway... so therefore we have the sexually abused (pro-choice would be lovely, to us who have been impregnated by our paedophile uncles...) and the victims of anti-LBGT harrassment (LBGTs are very real people who have no choice in the matter). I really think we should keep ALL politics to the General Discussions at least (which we haven't been too horrible about... but...), and the topics that directly call for liberal/conservative, democratic/republican dispute. But, we usually don't keep our views to ourselves, hence the result that homophobia and anti-LBGT harrassment are very real concepts.

[Perseus]

Well its not an intelligent conversation when 99% of the forum is liberal and everyone is just in agreement, and they are smart here but out where I live they're dumb.

A liberal is a free thinker. Georgia is infested with Republicans; Republicans are clouded with Christian thinking, so therefore, their arguments are based off of stuff at the least four thousand years old, but goes all the way to the Agricultural Revolution from like ten thousand years ago.

[Sugaree]

Well its not an intelligent conversation when 99% of the forum is liberal and everyone is just in agreement, and they are smart here but out where I live they're dumb.

I'll agree with you that at least 99 percent of the forum is in agreement. But you're exaggerating it to make it seem like 100 percent.

Teens, naturally, are going to go against public opinion and parental opinion. They claim themselves as free thinkers when they don't even have an open mind. I think most teens who consider themselves liberal don't even take in the consideration to have an open mind (anyone who says that support of gay rights is having an 'open mind' can leave this thread). They eventually die off and go to another viewpoint, be it conservatism or something else. VT is no different. I see "liberals" on here that will only partake in discussion about gay rights and global warming, yet take more conservative views on different subjects. There are hardly any real teen liberals, VT is no different. Granted, there are true free thinkers here, there is just an infestation of ones that call themselves liberals in hopes to be accepted.

[ShatteredWings]

Um, news flash.

This is a forum of teens a bit disallusioned with how things are being run today, along with a high LGBT population.

What do you really expect?

[Sith Lord 13]

Well, especially since we have a nice LGBT population here, you're going to have a good chunk of liberals, or at least only semi-conservatives (I have many friends who identify with conservatism but for some reason support conservatives while believing in global warming and gay rights)

I think it should be even more liberal... <_<

Really, especially for a help site. Concerning the topics I see and the life I've led, I think liberals would be more helpful. VT was supposedly established around the psych ward anyway... so therefore we have the sexually abused (pro-choice would be lovely, to us who have been impregnated by our paedophile uncles...) and the victims of anti-LBGT harrassment (LBGTs are very real people who have no choice in the matter). I really think we should keep ALL politics to the General Discussions at least (which we haven't been too horrible about... but...), and the topics that directly call for liberal/conservative, democratic/republican dispute. But, we usually don't keep our views to ourselves, hence the result that homophobia and anti-LBGT harrassment are very real concepts.

OK, I have to say I'm down right offended by this. You think that conservatives can't be caring and supportive? Not all conservatives are heartless bastards. Honestly though, I'm not surprised someone said this. Liberals seem to be tolerant and accepting of anything except conservatives.

A liberal is a free thinker. Georgia is infested with Republicans; Republicans are clouded with Christian thinking, so therefore, their arguments are based off of stuff at the least four thousand years old, but goes all the way to the Agricultural Revolution from like ten thousand years ago.

Just because the extreme Christians tend to be Republican doesn't mean Republicans tend to be extreme Christians.Also, seeing as how Christianity is less than 2000 years old, I love your number of four thousand years ago. If you can't win on facts, use exaggerations.



You know, just because you're a Republican doesn't mean you can't think freely. And not all liberals are free thinkers. Many just follow the party line. Honestly, around here (YMMV with this) conservatives are more freethinking than liberals. The most intolerant people I meet are liberals. If you mention something that even seems conservative to them, they will stop at nothing to convince you of how much of a stupid ass you are. Most conservatives I know will say they respectfully disagree, and drop it at that (unless it's meant to be a political debate, but that doesn't count to me). I find this especially ironic, since liberals are SUPPOSED to, according to their own beliefs, be welcoming and tolerant of differing view points. Most liberals I've met follow that belief very strongly, until said differing view point is conservative.

[Perseus]

Just because the extreme Christians tend to be Republican doesn't mean Republicans tend to be extreme Christians.Also, seeing as how Christianity is less than 2000 years old, I love your number of four thousand years ago. If you can't win on facts, use exaggerations.





Lemme stop you right there. The Old Testament is based off of beliefs from the Semites. Guess when they were around. In the Agricultural Revolution. It is their creation myth; it was passed down from generation to generation until it was written down, so guess what there; there was distortion, and plus, what it told was explanations on different tribes and why there was agriculture. So don't tell me I'm exaggerating when I'm actually telling proof.

[Sith Lord 13]

Lemme stop you right there. The Old Testament is based off of beliefs from the Semites. Guess when they were around. In the Agricultural Revolution. It is their creation myth; it was passed down from generation to generation until it was written down, so guess what there; there was distortion, and plus, what it told was explanations on different tribes and why there was agriculture. So don't tell me I'm exaggerating when I'm actually telling proof.

Except for the fact that most modern Christian arguments are based on the New Testament. Otherwise, all arguments are based on things tens of thousands of thousands of years old as all arguments have predecessors.

[CaptainObvious]

A liberal is a free thinker. Georgia is infested with Republicans; Republicans are clouded with Christian thinking, so therefore, their arguments are based off of stuff at the least four thousand years old, but goes all the way to the Agricultural Revolution from like ten thousand years ago.

Everything you said here is a wildly unjustifiable generalization. Not all liberals are free thinkers, and not all Republicans pay credence to Christian teachings. Some liberals are fucking stupid sheep, and some Republicans are incredibly sharp atheists.

Anyways, I don't think this place "is" "too liberal" but I do wish there were more members with conservative viewpoints of one type or another and the skill to argue those views against any number of opponents. quartermaster is a good example. Personally, I think it shouldn't matter how many people argue against you: if you're more right than one, you're more right than 100. But many get skittish when faced with large numbers. I love it, personally, but I'm weird like that.

[Amnesiac]

Yes, VT is unusually liberal. Is that a bad thing? No, not at all. Should that be a surprise? No, not at all. Younger people always tend to be more outgoing and less conservative than the generations before them.

[Perseus]

Everything you said here is a wildly unjustifiable generalization. Not all liberals are free thinkers, and not all Republicans pay credence to Christian teachings. Some liberals are fucking stupid sheep, and some Republicans are incredibly sharp atheists.

Anyways, I don't think this place "is" "too liberal" but I do wish there were more members with conservative viewpoints of one type or another and the skill to argue those views against any number of opponents. quartermaster is a good example. Personally, I think it shouldn't matter how many people argue against you: if you're more right than one, you're more right than 100. But many get skittish when faced with large numbers. I love it, personally, but I'm weird like that.

When I use liberal, I use it with the textbook definition of "free thinker".
Except for the fact that most modern Christian arguments are based on the New Testament. Otherwise, all arguments are based on things tens of thousands of thousands of years old as all arguments have predecessors.
Except the fact that Christians still base ideas off of the Old Testament, such as the homosexual view and the Ten Commandments, the creation story, and other stories from the Old Testament; don't tell me that Christians don't use the Old Testament; I've been going to church since I can remember. So trust me, it is heavily used, my friend.

[CaptainObvious]

When I use liberal, I use it with the textbook definition of "free thinker".

That's either a dishonest argument or you're misusing the word. Liberal has several meanings in the context of politics, and that isn't one of them.

[Sith Lord 13]

Except the fact that Christians still base ideas off of the Old Testament, such as the homosexual view and the Ten Commandments, the creation story, and other stories from the Old Testament; don't tell me that Christians don't use the Old Testament; I've been going to church since I can remember. So trust me, it is heavily used, my friend.

I didn't say none and I know you have a point (I'm in my 15th year of Catholic school :rolleyes:). However, most modern arguments have their basis in the New Testament, for example homosexuality is based on Paul's epistle, with OT writings providing further support. If you want to say their arguments have some OT roots, I'd give you that, but again, most if not all arguments have roots going back that far and farther, since most ideas develop out of older ideas.

[jason93]

In Australia Liberal means conservative.

I know funny, but it is true.

Our conservative party is called the Liberal Party of Australia: http://www.liberal.org.au/

[Syvelocin]

OK, I have to say I'm down right offended by this. You think that conservatives can't be caring and supportive? Not all conservatives are heartless bastards. Honestly though, I'm not surprised someone said this. Liberals seem to be tolerant and accepting of anything except conservatives.



That's definitely not what I meant. I have a nice handful conservative friends and acquaintances, and all of them are caring. But if we stick to traditional I conservative views, they don't approve of some things, obviously, just like liberals don't approve of things. I don't have problems with people being conservative. I have problems with some conservative views and the conservatives who ARE heartless bastards, having seen a lot of the extreme ones in the past seven weeks when I'm not used to it.

But I'm also biased because I'm a pansexual, neopagan, liberal recently submerged in Baptist country, I admit that can come into play, but I make sure to not let it make too much of a stereotype in my mind since right now, everyone I talk on a daily basis other than my partner is conservative.

[Tiberius]

Yeah, but it's not a bad thing since liberals are usually smarter, and you can have intelligent conversations with them.
That is a totally bigoted statement and is rather unintelligent. What if I said that all Southerners are total retards? Your post lacks a logical basis.
A liberal is a free thinker.
Well, being prejudiced enough to say what you did in the first quote, I'd have to say that you are certainly not open-minded or a free thinker. You blindly label an entire group of people that represent millions as stupid people and then you say all liberals are intelligent. I've met some that aren't.

Georgia is infested with Republicans; Republicans are clouded with Christian thinking, so therefore, their arguments are based off of stuff at the least four thousand years old, but goes all the way to the Agricultural Revolution from like ten thousand years ago.
I happen to be an atheist and a conservative(Republican too). I happen to hate that Christian thinking. I, however, do use arguments that are related to things that happened 2,000 or 3,000 years ago because I believe that history is the best teacher. Contrary to your narrow-minded view of conservatives, our arguments that have a basis in the last 4,000 years often have another meaning than a religious one.

[Sage]

In Australia Liberal means conservative.

In Canada, the political spectrum is a bit different. Socialist is left-wing, liberal is in the center, and conservative is right-wing.

[Sugaree]

In Canada, the political spectrum is a bit different. Socialist is left-wing, liberal is in the center, and conservative is right-wing.

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/2/23/Canadian-milk-bags.jpg

In Australia Liberal means conservative.

Obviously different governments have different meanings to what a liberal and conservative are. I suppose this thread was made in hindsight about the United States definition of a liberal and conservative.

[Sage]

I suppose this thread was made in hindsight about the United States definition of a liberal and conservative.

To clarify, yes, that's the context I made the thread in.

[Raptor22]

As a very conservative member of VT (fiscal, not so much social) I will say that the liberal bias on VT gets old quickly and its difficult to have a discussion or debate centering on facts. I live in a very liberal college town so I am used to it, It just gets annoying after a while. The worst part is when people just make assumptions or believe things that arent true because of some kind of consensus in liberal circles.

Hence the reason why I generally abstain from large debates...


Seems pretty liberal to me so when I give a conservative comment I get like 10 guys talking down to me etc and it gets somewhat old. I wouldnt mind a better balance, would help debates since most are just 'yep your right' towards the op cause everyone tends to agree.

Agreed.

Yeah, but it's not a bad thing since liberals are usually smarter, and you can have intelligent conversations with them.

Bullshit, a sweeping generalization if I have ever seen one. The liberals around here are 95% cookoo...

Stephen Colbert even came out to make fun of us:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-april-27-1999/colbert---tunnel-vision

"The engineers and men of science at Davis Public Works"...

I laugh at that every time since my dad works there and they are 95% fucktards....

That is a totally bigoted statement and is rather unintelligent. What if I said that all Southerners are total retards? Your post lacks a logical basis.

Well, being prejudiced enough to say what you did in the first quote, I'd have to say that you are certainly not open-minded or a free thinker. You blindly label an entire group of people that represent millions as stupid people and then you say all liberals are intelligent. I've met some that aren't.


I happen to be an atheist and a conservative(Republican too). I happen to hate that Christian thinking. I, however, do use arguments that are related to things that happened 2,000 or 3,000 years ago because I believe that history is the best teacher. Contrary to your narrow-minded view of conservatives, our arguments that have a basis in the last 4,000 years often have another meaning than a religious one.

Completely agreed. :)

[Perseus]

That's either a dishonest argument or you're misusing the word. Liberal has several meanings in the context of politics, and that isn't one of them.

I guess I use it in the wrong context, then.

That is a totally bigoted statement and is rather unintelligent. What if I said that all Southerners are total retards? Your post lacks a logical basis.
I agree with you on that.

But I am not close minded, Chris.
Well, being prejudiced enough to say what you did in the first quote, I'd have to say that you are certainly not open-minded or a free thinker. You blindly label an entire group of people that represent millions as stupid people and then you say all liberals are intelligent. I've met some that aren't.
In all honesty, I was saying in general. In the South, liberals are more fun to talk to because they don't base everything on religion.

I happen to be an atheist and a conservative(Republican too). I happen to hate that Christian thinking. I, however, do use arguments that are related to things that happened 2,000 or 3,000 years ago because I believe that history is the best teacher. Contrary to your narrow-minded view of conservatives, our arguments that have a basis in the last 4,000 years often have another meaning than a religious one.
I labeled it as it is because of my experiences; I will honestly say you have no idea how it is down here. I am so annoyed by the grasp Christendom has on everyone down here and how everyone follows what their parents' follow. The reason I think the way I do is because my mom is so far right it gets on nerves having to listen to Glenn Beck and the like; I can't explain myself too well, but I will say I have made myself look like a complete and total jackass in this thread.

And Raptor, you do know that Stephen Colbert plays a character, right?

[Raptor22]

And Raptor, you do know that Stephen Colbert plays a character, right?

Of course I know that he plays a character, my point was that my humble town is so bad that a national personality made fun of us on national television...

Did you even watch the clip? :P

[Perseus]

Of course I know that he plays a character, my point was that my humble town is so bad that a national personality made fun of us on national television...

Did you even watch the clip? :P

No. :P Doing other things; I was just making sure you knew he played a character, lol.

Oh, my God. They look so young compared to now. :P And wow... your town is just...

[Raptor22]

No. :P Doing other things; I was just making sure you knew he played a character, lol.

Watch the clip, let me know what you think. :)

Did we deserve to be made fun of?

[Perseus]

Watch the clip, let me know what you think. :)

Did we deserve to be made fun of?
Just so you know I edited my other post, if you haven't noticed by now.

[Raptor22]

No. :P Doing other things; I was just making sure you knew he played a character, lol.

Oh, my God. They look so young compared to now. :P And wow... your town is just...

Yea I noticed that watching the video again.

My town is :P ....

Just so you know I edited my other post, if you haven't noticed by now.

Wow, actually just noticed. I just got home and checked the thread and noticed your post. :P

[Sith Lord 13]

That's definitely not what I meant.

Good. Might wanna try making yourself clearer in the future then. (Because tone is poorly conveyed on the internet, I'm gonna say right now, that's sincere, not sarcastic)

I have a nice handful conservative friends and acquaintances, and all of them are caring.

Glad to see you're not as close minded as some people I've met (on both sides of the aisle).

But if we stick to traditional I conservative views, they don't approve of some things, obviously, just like liberals don't approve of things. I don't have problems with people being conservative. I have problems with some conservative views and the conservatives who ARE heartless bastards,

I'd agree with that, except I've seen the same type of heartless bastards on the liberal side. There is nothing inherent in being a conservative that makes one a heartless bastard. No conservative viewpoints are particularly heartless.

having seen a lot of the extreme ones in the past seven weeks when I'm not used to it.

OK. Just be careful not to confuse religious extremists with conservatives.

But I'm also biased because I'm a pansexual, neopagan, liberal recently submerged in Baptist country, I admit that can come into play, but I make sure to not let it make too much of a stereotype in my mind since right now, everyone I talk on a daily basis other than my partner is conservative.

Just gonna say, they may not be as common, but there are gay, bi, and pan sexual conservatives. There are also Wiccan, pagan, neopagan, agnostic and atheist conservatives.

[Sage]

There are also Wiccan, pagan, neopagan, agnostic and atheist conservatives.

Fiscally, perhaps, but socially speaking I'd say the people listed in this quote are an extreme minority. I've practiced Wicca and paganism in the past, such values do not fall in line with typical social conservatism.

[Continuum]

Fiscally, perhaps, but socially speaking I'd say the people listed in this quote are an extreme minority. I've practiced Wicca and paganism in the past, such values do not fall in line with typical social conservatism.

Is he referring to those who practice AND follow close-minded connotations from an age-old tradition that goes afar from man's animistic, earth-centered worships? Pretty obsolete, in my opinion.

[Dive to Survive]

Seems pretty liberal to me so when I give a conservative comment I get like 10 guys talking down to me etc and it gets somewhat old. I wouldnt mind a better balance, would help debates since most are just 'yep your right' towards the op cause everyone tends to agree.

The same thing happens to me when I post conservative views. Now, I just ignore it.

[CaptainObvious]

I wish more of you conservatives would post more actively. Debates are boring without a good stiff opposition, and the more of you that ignore the fact that your opposition is numerically stronger than you, the less that advantage will exist.

[Raptor22]

I wish more of you conservatives would post more actively. Debates are boring without a good stiff opposition, and the more of you that ignore the fact that your opposition is numerically stronger than you, the less that advantage will exist.

Well I am happy to know that you value our debates, and I am also happy to partake in them. :)

Now I wish I actually had more time to contribute.;)

[Amnesiac]

I wish more of you conservatives would post more actively. Debates are boring without a good stiff opposition, and the more of you that ignore the fact that your opposition is numerically stronger than you, the less that advantage will exist.

I'd be happy to see more fiscal conservatives debate on VT, instead of wholesome agreement with the first post after OP's. However, as for social conservatives, they'll have to do a better job of rationally explaining their views before I'd be content with them debating here.

I'm not saying all social conservatives are bad, but most of them are just dicks.

[Raptor22]

I'd be happy to see more fiscal conservatives debate on VT, instead of wholesome agreement with the first post after OP's. However, as for social conservatives, they'll have to do a better job of rationally explaining their views before I'd be content with them debating here.

I'm not saying all social conservatives are bad, but most of them are just dicks.

I only hold a couple socially conservative beliefs, however what beliefs do you consider 'social conservative?'

Guns?
Death Penalty?
Constitution?
Personal Liberty?
States Rights?
Abortion?
Gay Marriage?

Out of that list, only the last two are 'social conservative' to me, but the first five arent fiscal conservative issues either...

[Amnesiac]

I only hold a couple socially conservative beliefs, however what beliefs do you consider 'social conservative?'

Guns?
Death Penalty?
Constitution?
Personal Liberty?
States Rights?
Abortion?
Gay Marriage?

Out of that list, only the last two are 'social conservative' to me, but the first five arent fiscal conservative issues either...

Gay marriage, separation of church and state, the teaching of evolution, climate change/global warming, negative views towards Islam and atheism and personal liberties (drugs, abortion).

I believe in the second amendment as well, it's not a view only conservatives hold. States rights is also more of a bipartisan issue.

As for the Constitution, well, the blind ignorance of some of its most basic articles by some social conservatives is just disgusting.

[Raptor22]

Gay marriage, separation of church and state, the teaching of evolution, climate change/global warming, negative views towards Islam and atheism and personal liberties (drugs, abortion).

I believe in the second amendment as well, it's not a view only conservatives hold. States rights is also more of a bipartisan issue.

As for the Constitution, well, the blind ignorance of some of its most basic articles by some social conservatives is just disgusting.

Good post, I have to leave right now, but after school I will delve into those issues. :)

[Asylum]

i think from this thread with the going back in forth between liberals and conservatives we've established VTer's are liberal XP