Circumcision

[Thylacine]

What do you honestly think of this from a religious/ethical/scientific/aesthetic perspective?

Religous: Well from my point of view as a Christian God created us this way for a reason and I don't see any reason for this from a religious perspective as the practice as orignally done by the Jews was directed AT the Jews and their circumcision procedure in the past before the current practice which originated later on in history so that Jews could be easily identified, involved just cutting the very tip of the foreskin off. This is why Michaelangelo's famous statue David appears uncircumcised. As for the rest of the Christians, Muslims and followers of the Baha'i faith their is no religious reason to circumcise from my perspective though I recognize that others may think differently.

Ethical: I feel that putting babies through such a horrific act is cruel and wrong. As for other boy's I think it should be their choice and should only be allowed to be made in the early teens and onwards when they are old enough to make an informed decision uninfluenced by their parents and religious/cultural bias.

Aesthetic: I don't really have much of a care for this but I think that natural is better.

Scientific: Well if you clean under their enough then the conspiracy theories are just that theories. The bacteria and infections won't be their if the correct precautions are taken. Man has lived for thousands of years without circumcision.

Thanks for reading my post I hope we can have some intelligent discussion on this topic.

[Azunite]

1- Not only Jews circumsize it, I am a muslim and it is a "must" to circumsize, else you are not man in Islam.

2- Well, aestetichly circumsized penis looks better IMO

3- Without circumcision, your pee can stay under that extra skin before you know it, that is both unhealthy and disgusting.

4-Scientificlly, it REDUCES the chance of diseases. So yes, you can still be health without circumcision

5-And I was circumsized a week later I was born, when you are a baby your nerves aren't develeoped in your penis so babies don't feel anything so it is no pain.

[willrod]

1. Certain religions and cultures have practiced circumcision throughout their history for either practical or "initiation" purposes. It's not only a Jewish/Muslim thing- many cultures in Africa also practice circumcision, but at a much later age- it's part of the "manhood ceremony". I personally think that if it's part of their culture, and doesn't cause major problems, then they should be allowed to do it.

2. When it's done on an infant, there still are major nerve endings and everything, and I'm sure it hurts. However, it's not something that they'll remember- I mean, do you remember when you were circumcised as an infant? Plus, they generally numb the area beforehand.

3. Aesthetically I see no difference, really- a penis is a penis lol.

4. Scientifically, there are some studies that show that circumcision reduces the risk of urinary tract infections, balanitis, HIV, and penile cancer (which is extremely rare anyway so what's the point?). But these "slight" decreases in the possibility of disease shouldn't be used as justification to have your son circumcised. Now, at a later age, sometimes they end up with phimosis (tight foreskin) and circumcision is necessary, but this is pretty rare.

My personal opinion is that it's generally unnecessary, and that parents should be presented with all the facts to make an informed decision. However, they still should have the right to have their sons circumcised.

[Amnesiac]

What do you honestly think of this from a religious/ethical/scientific/aesthetic perspective?

Religous: Well from my point of view as a Christian God created us this way for a reason and I don't see any reason for this from a religious perspective as the practice as orignally done by the Jews was directed AT the Jews and their circumcision procedure in the past before the current practice which originated later on in history so that Jews could be easily identified, involved just cutting the very tip of the foreskin off. This is why Michaelangelo's famous statue David appears uncircumcised. As for the rest of the Christians, Muslims and followers of the Baha'i faith their is no religious reason to circumcise from my perspective though I recognize that others may think differently.

Ethical: I feel that putting babies through such a horrific act is cruel and wrong. As for other boy's I think it should be their choice and should only be allowed to be made in the early teens and onwards when they are old enough to make an informed decision uninfluenced by their parents and religious/cultural bias.

Aesthetic: I don't really have much of a care for this but I think that natural is better.

Scientific: Well if you clean under their enough then the conspiracy theories are just that theories. The bacteria and infections won't be their if the correct precautions are taken. Man has lived for thousands of years without circumcision.

Thanks for reading my post I hope we can have some intelligent discussion on this topic.

Religious: I'm not religious. I don't care if people circumcise out of religion, that's up to them.

Ethical: I do believe that babies should not be circumcised. It should be the child's decision to do what they want with their body — this is, after all, permanent — and giving them the information they need is essential.

Aesthetic: Eh.

Scientific: It is true that circumcision does reduce the likelihood of getting an STD, but it's so minimal that it barely makes a difference in the end. Cleaning is as simple as taking a shower regularly.

[Perseus]

In all honesty, I can't explain my view on circumcision. I feel it is terrible to put a baby through that kind of pain, but yet I probably will get my sun circumcised because I am, even though I will be deeply saddened watching it. I don't want to, but yet I do because I am and the foreskin looks nasty.

[Thylacine]

It saddens me that some of you people would say that the natural state of being for a male human being is disgusting. I feel sorry for all you poor brainwashed people.

[Perseus]

It saddens me that some of you people would say that the natural state of being for a male human being is disgusting. I feel sorry for all you poor brainwashed people.

I'm not brainwashed; it's the truth. That little flap of skin bugs the hell out of me.

[willrod]

It saddens me that some of you people would say that the natural state of being for a male human being is disgusting. I feel sorry for all you poor brainwashed people.

Eh, to be honest, I couldn't care either way. I personally think that it looks a little neater when it's circumcised- but it doesn't look bad uncircumcised either. Idk, hard to describe. Though I don't feel that the "it looks better" argument justifies it- it's a very important decision that needs to take several factors into account.

[Sugaree]

In all honesty, I can't explain my view on circumcision. I feel it is terrible to put a baby through that kind of pain, but yet I probably will get my sun circumcised because I am, even though I will be deeply saddened watching it.

You do understand that in a newborn child, the nerve endings are completely undeveloped right? Why do you think they sometimes smack the newborns on their asses? It's to make sure that they're alive and do have some nerve endings developed properly. Not to mention, the circumcision of a male baby is harmless, they won't feel a thing. You don't have to watch it either because they take the child to another room to do the procedure.

Anyway, back on topic to the thread.

1. Religious: If circumcision is stemmed from religion, I have no problem with it. In some cultures, it's even a rite of passage. As stated earlier, the Islamic religion states that any male that is not circumcised is not truly a man. There's no problem with circumcision from a religious aspect mostly because it's a tradition spanning thousands of years.

2. Ethical: Ethically, I do believe that circumcising a male baby is wrong. I think that when the age comes of questioning relating to the penis, then one should give their child the proper information and let them make an informed decision on their own with no help from their parents or from public opinion. This is a permanent thing, and we all have a basic right to do with our bodies as we wish.

3. Aesthetic: A dick is a dick, no matter who it happens to belong to.

4. Scientifically: I'm going to agree with DarthEgg on this one. Though it is proven to reduce the risk of contracting STDs, it's nothing more than a small percentage. Keeping the genital area clean is not that hard.

It saddens me that some of you people would say that the natural state of being for a male human being is disgusting. I feel sorry for all you poor brainwashed people.

Brainwashed? Going a bit far on that aren't cha pal? If these people feel that they have the right on whether or not their child is circumcised or not is their decision.

[Whisper]

You do understand that in a newborn child, the nerve endings are completely undeveloped right? Why do you think they sometimes smack the newborns on their asses? It's to make sure that they're alive and do have some nerve endings developed properly. Not to mention, the circumcision of a male baby is harmless, they won't feel a thing. You don't have to watch it either because they take the child to another room to do the procedure.

k
I would LOVE for you to show me legitimate peer reviewed sources clearly stating that circumcision causes the infant NO pain, and that their nerve endings are undeveloped to the point where they "won't feel a thing".
I would greatly appreciate it if you could show me those.

Circumcision is not harmless, its surgery. Any and all surgeries carry risks and complications, there are no exceptions.

As far as taking your kid into another room so you don't have to deal with their blood curdling screams or witness/watch over the procedure at all....When I have a child, I won't let my baby out of my sight.

Also, it's not their decision as to whether their child should be cut or not. Its not their body. That choice should rest squarely on their son when he's old enough to decide.

[Perseus]

You do understand that in a newborn child, the nerve endings are completely undeveloped right? Why do you think they sometimes smack the newborns on their asses? It's to make sure that they're alive and do have some nerve endings developed properly. Not to mention, the circumcision of a male baby is harmless, they won't feel a thing. You don't have to watch it either because they take the child to another room to do the procedure.

Anyway, back on topic to the thread.

1. Religious: If circumcision is stemmed from religion, I have no problem with it. In some cultures, it's even a rite of passage. As stated earlier, the Islamic religion states that any male that is not circumcised is not truly a man. There's no problem with circumcision from a religious aspect mostly because it's a tradition spanning thousands of years.

2. Ethical: Ethically, I do believe that circumcising a male baby is wrong. I think that when the age comes of questioning relating to the penis, then one should give their child the proper information and let them make an informed decision on their own with no help from their parents or from public opinion. This is a permanent thing, and we all have a basic right to do with our bodies as we wish.

3. Aesthetic: A dick is a dick, no matter who it happens to belong to.

4. Scientifically: I'm going to agree with DarthEgg on this one. Though it is proven to reduce the risk of contracting STDs, it's nothing more than a small percentage. Keeping the genital area clean is not that hard.



Brainwashed? Going a bit far on that aren't cha pal? If these people feel that they have the right on whether or not their child is circumcised or not is their decision.

Um, I'm pretty sure he can feel it.
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[Azunite]

That pain lasts only for 10 mins

[willrod]

Wow, yeah, hemorrhage and infection are a possibility- not to mention the poor baby kept crying the whole time. They should definitely show parents this video before they decide on what to do!

[Sugaree]

k
I would LOVE for you to show me legitimate peer reviewed sources clearly stating that circumcision causes the infant NO pain, and that their nerve endings are undeveloped to the point where they "won't feel a thing".
I would greatly appreciate it if you could show me those.

Alright, just before leaving for a doctor's appointment my mother had, I decided to go and ask him some question. Turns out that the child does feel pain when they're circumcised. That's what you get from Catholic school sex-ed.

[Perseus]

That pain lasts only for 10 mins

Bullshit.

[Azunite]

Bullshit.

Bullshit my ass
They medicine that area and make the baby feel lesser pain. Do you think baby cries for the whole day ?
Someone needs to learn. People WOULD have mercy and wouldn't do that if the baby had pain for a long time.
As I said, nerves in genital area aren't highly developed when you are a baby so you feel leser pain

[Perseus]

Someone needs to learn. People WOULD have mercy and wouldn't do that if the baby had pain for a long time.


Yeah, they would. Are you serious?

[jason93]

I don't have real opinion on circumcision.

I was circumcised and I don't mind being circumcised.

If I have a son I will probably have him circumcised.

I think it is the parents decision, especially the dad's.

[Thylacine]

You do understand that in a newborn child, the nerve endings are completely undeveloped right?

Well I'm sorry but I've seen another video where the baby was howling its head off and mate you can't tell me that its not in a hell of alot of pain. Babys don't cry and howl like that unless there's something wrong. Its cruel how could you put a precious gift like a baby through such pain and suffering. Wait till the teen years I say.

[Thylacine]

Bullshit.

I second that.

[Azunite]

You fell of from a tree at age 4,
Do you remember you had pain now ? It is pure bullshit to say "We shouldnt do this cos it is painful"
Oh, then don't ever fall from a tree or a bike when you are a child! Don't have a fight at high school, don't go to bar brawls in university, don't mess up with gangs when you are an adult.

It is so crap to approach the thing from the "Baby will cry" side.
Well, babies also cry when they are born.

[Perseus]

You fell of from a tree at age 4,
Do you remember you had pain now ? It is pure bullshit to say "We shouldnt do this cos it is painful"
Oh, then don't ever fall from a tree or a bike when you are a child! Don't have a fight at high school, don't go to bar brawls in university, don't mess up with gangs when you are an adult.

It is so crap to approach the thing from the "Baby will cry" side.
Well, babies also cry when they are born.

This is intentional pain.

[jack316]

If foreskins were bad then man or whatever came before us would have eliminated them. We grew thumbs and learned to walk on 2 legs. If we needed to I'm sure we could eliminate some skin.
Uncut is amazing and so sensitive ! We have it , so it's obviously useful

[Azunite]

If foreskins were bad then man or whatever came before us would have eliminated them. We grew thumbs and learned to walk on 2 legs. If we needed to I'm sure we could eliminate some skin.
Uncut is amazing and so sensitive ! We have it , so it's obviously useful

That's too rubbish.
Removing the foreskin has it's advantages, but staying with your foreskin does not.
And you say that if it is there, it is useful..
Well, your appendix is also there but it has no advantage so when it beomes blunt they remove it by surgery.

[Thylacine]

I guess your entitled to your opinion, coming from a islamic country I can understand your viewpoint; but I don't agree with it. Now I will get out some scripture which applies to Muslims, Jews and Christians and it's because of these verses that I believe that circumcision isn't necessary.

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." The First Book of Moses, called Genesis. 1: 27 KJV

"And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day." The First Book of Moses, called Genesis. 1: 31 KJV

I rest my case. As a being created in the image of the almighty god I see no reason why I should change my appearance when the almighty was happy with his original design.

On the Covenant...

Genesis 17:10 (King James Version)

10: This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

The covenant was between Abraham, his descendants and God. So therefore this doesn't apply to all mankind just the descendants of Abraham; The Jews.

Thats my case. Cheers.

[Azunite]

But Abraham descended from Adam and Eve, don't he ?

And I think it is so wrong that you should say " Jews should be circumsized but Muslims and Christ.s shouldn't "
God does not make discrimination

[Perseus]

God does not make discrimination

You sure about that? The Bible seems to say that he doesn't like folks who doesn't worship him and causes volcanoes to explode on them.

[Azunite]

I mean, amongs the believers of God.
Surely God will punish those who does not believe in God anyway

[Tiberius]

How about we all leave the use of "god" as a reference in a debate. Honestly, it really looks cheesy and has no factual basis.

[jack316]

But Abraham descended from Adam and Eve, don't he ?

And I think it is so wrong that you should say " Jews should be circumsized but Muslims and Christ.s shouldn't "
God does not make discrimination


Well god isnt real (in my opinion) so your argument has no basis
At the end of the day my dick is more sensitive than yours . Goodbye

[Azunite]

If you dont believe in god that is your problem I am talking about majority.

And being that sensitive isn't good, it may hurt or you may get a tickly feeling or something like that.
And why it gets sensitive if you are uncircumcised

[jack316]

It more sensitive cos it isn't rubbing against clothes all day and on cut dicks the skin hardens to reduce the pain from that. Also more sensitivity = better sex, masturbation and feelings down there.

And not believing in god isnt a problem, it's amazing :D I can live my life to the full , not take things for granted and appreciate life, instead of being boring and thinking that I'm going to live forever in heaven.

[The Batman]

It's not really a big deal IMO, ,it's better to get it done while their a baby and it does have medical advantages that no one can deny. Yea maybe it should be up to the guy when he gets old enough but by the time he does he shouldn't care either way. I honestly don't care that I was circumcised and if i wasn't I wouldn't care either as long as it still does what it's suppose to do having an extra bit of skin or not shouldn't matter.

The benefits
Circumcision may have health benefits, including:

Easier hygiene. Circumcision makes it easy to wash the penis — although it's simple to clean an uncircumcised penis, too.

Decreased risk of urinary tract infections. The risk of urinary tract infections in the first year is low, but these infections may be up to 10 times as common in uncircumcised baby boys. Severe infections early in life can lead to kidney problems later on.

Prevention of penile problems. Occasionally, the foreskin on an uncircumcised penis may be difficult or impossible to retract (phimosis). This can also lead to inflammation of the head of the penis.

Decreased risk of penile cancer. Although cancer of the penis is rare, it's less common in circumcised men.

Decreased risk of sexually transmitted diseases. Safe sexual practices remain essential, but circumcised men may have a slightly lower risk of certain sexually transmitted diseases — including HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.

The drawbacks
Circumcision also has drawbacks, including:

Surgical risks. Excessive bleeding and infection are uncommon, but possible. The foreskin may be cut too short or too long or fail to heal properly. If the remaining foreskin reattaches to the end of the penis, minor surgery may be needed to correct it.
Pain. Circumcision hurts. Local anesthesia can block nerve sensations during the procedure.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/circumcision/PR00040

That's just a source on the pros and cons on it.

[jack316]

Those statistics are made by circumcised doctors who manipulate data provided from unfair tests to spread propaganda against the natural body. You're so brainwashed it's not funny

[Azunite]

It is you who is brainwashed

[Perseus]

Those statistics are made by circumcised doctors who manipulate data provided from unfair tests to spread propaganda against the natural body. You're so brainwashed it's not funny

Yeah, goddamned separist propaganda!

[Sugaree]

Those statistics are made by circumcised doctors who manipulate data provided from unfair tests to spread propaganda against the natural body. You're so brainwashed it's not funny

http://www.halolz.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/halolz-dot-com-teamfortress2-ohu.jpg

[Korashk]

I am against forced infant genital mutilation in all of its forms except when medically necessary. As has been mentioned, the benefits do not outweigh the risks. One of which I'm surprised no one has mentioned. This would be infant mortality due to surgical complications. I will admit that it is extremely, extremely rare, but it does happen.

[Art_dude]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4yS08N0xeU

'nuff said.

[Amnesiac]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4yS08N0xeU

'nuff said.

Christopher Hitchens is such an epic man.

[Art_dude]

Christopher Hitchens is such an epic man.

I fully concur. There's nothing quite like a Hitchslap. The man is a fucking deity.

[Amnesiac]

I fully concur. There's nothing quite like a Hitchslap. The man is a fucking deity.

I've never seen someone go so far out of his way to speak his mind. It's a great thing. He's always had my respect.