Don't Ask, Don't Tell repeal fails Senate

[willrod]

It's official: Senate Republicans, in their unwavering campaign of preventing American society from entering the 21st Century have killed the bill that would've seen the US military's "don't ask, don't tell" ban on GLBT service members eliminated. What are your guy's thoughts on this subject?

Do you think that this was a wise move during such a bitter midterm election year? Or do you think that this will further hurt the Republicans who are already facing a major schism in their own ranks? And don't forget Lady Gaga- did anybody see her outfit? LMAO

[Amnesiac]

Republicans are running on a platform focused almost entirely on FISCAL conservatism. People at this time, frustrated with the economy, seem to not care about civil rights or social politics at all. All focus is on the economy, and people will happily vote based on that alone. Because of the political climate at the moment, this is nowhere near an election issue.

My fear is that when the Republicans take control of Congress this November, they'll slip more restrictions on freedom into law while hiding it with talk about the economy.

[Church]

Heres the thing, if your gay and in the military, dont tell anyone. Her dur. It's common sense.

[Rainstorm]

Heres the thing, if your gay and in the military, dont tell anyone. Her dur. It's common sense.

Why? If I'm putting my ass on the line, I should be able to be who I am and not lie about my sexual orientation, which, if someone has a problem with, oh fucking well.

[The Batman]

since there isn't an article with this
VT Daily Chronicle :arrow: ROTW

[Amnesiac]

Heres the thing, if your gay and in the military, dont tell anyone. Her dur. It's common sense.

"Here's the thing, if you're straight and in the military, don't tell anyone. [It's HURR DURR, by the way.]"

Why should being gay be enough to get one kicked out of the military? Why should anyone whose job is to go and defend the United States give a flying fuck about whether or not the people they work with are gay? Why must it be some "never speak of it" taboo? This is the 21st century, these gay soldiers have valuable skills to offer which are in the U.S.'s best interests. Denying them service is only aiding the terrorists.

[Iron Man]

Damned Republicans and their economy talk. Anyone with a brain stem can tell that homosexuality and the economy have no ties. Their conservative views are also clouding with extremist religious views. It is simply unconstitutional to deny anyone, reguardless of race, sexual orientation, and family backround, from serving in the armed forces, and it is also taking away freedoms when one can`t be open about who they are.

[Whisper]

Heres the thing, if your gay and in the military, dont tell anyone. HURR DURR. It's common sense.
i fixed it :)




Frankly thats a very worry-some double standard to have.
Do you think women should be excluded? How about blacks?

Do you think openly out gays should have the right to vote?
I mean
fags aren't real people now are they?
I mean America is the land of the free, but there's limits; no queers.

I'm very disappointed in you.

[The Batman]

I actually expected this to happen. I think next time this goes through congress it'll pass.

[The Joker]

Heres the thing, if your gay and in the military, dont tell anyone. Her dur. It's common sense.

Soldiers who are not afraid of guns, bombs, capture, torture, or death, say they are afraid of homosexuals. Clearly gays should not be used as soldiers, they should be used as weapons.

Why can't gays be in the military? Personally, I think straight guys are just afraid of a thousand guys with M16's going, "Who'd you call faggot?".

[willrod]

Got a few things to say:

i fixed it :)




Frankly thats a very worry-some double standard to have.
Do you think women should be excluded? How about blacks?

I really hope you're being sarcastic, but it's hard to tell.

Do you think openly out gays should have the right to vote?

Um, I'm sorry, but as an American citizen, as soon as I turn 18, I have the right to vote. It's that simple- right there in the Constitution, end of story.


I mean
fags aren't real people now are they?

No, but I am a really good human-substitute, now aren't I? I mean, seriously? What kind of question is that?

I mean America is the land of the free, but there's limits; no queers.

I'm very disappointed in you.

Please tell me you're being sarcastic LOL

[Syvelocin]

It's segregation all over again. And there will always be something people are going to discriminate against. I don't judge people based on whether they like blonds or brunettes, so why by which gender they're attracted to? Kicking someone out of the military based on a fact that they can't change in themselves is completely wrong.

I believe it was 56-43 right? So, what I hate, is that the leader of our country can be elected with the majority votes, but we have to have 60% of the Senate's votes to let perfectly fine candidates be in the military. 13 is a solid majority in my opinion.

Your sexuality doesn't have anything to do with how well you can protect this country. To tell you the truth, I trust homosexual men more than heterosexual men.

Anyway.

Gays (and lesbians) are just as fit to protect our country, if not more, than straight people.

I do have confidence that the next time through, we will get that extra four votes. Once everything cools down. I just might have to slip something into McCain's food or something though (kidding).

Republicans bug the shit out of me. Maybe it's just that they're fundamentalist Christians *shrug* Ever heard of the two sections of the US? The United States and Dumbfuckistan (Jesusland). I'm a firm believer in that concept.

[Amnesiac]

Got a few things to say: Please tell me you're being sarcastic LOL

You're mis-reading his post. They were hypothetical questions, and yes, they were sarcastic.

[willrod]

You're mis-reading his post. They were hypothetical questions, and yes, they were sarcastic.

LOL hard to tell sometimes, really :what:

But yes- people need to start asking questions rather than just sinking back into the "way things used to be".

[dead]

Maybe they didn't ban the bill because theres already a pentagon study about this topic and will end in December. Fuckin'

[Sugaree]

It's official: Senate Republicans, in their unwavering campaign of preventing American society from entering the 21st Century have killed the bill that would've seen the US military's "don't ask, don't tell" ban on GLBT service members eliminated. What are your guy's thoughts on this subject?

I saw it coming. I don't think that now is the right time to be repealing this. I'm not in full support of DADT, not by a long shot, but we have other problems don't cha think so? Besides, the Republicans are taking more power and it's no surprise this didn't get passed. As mentioned before, it's all about the fiscal republican views.

Do you think that this was a wise move during such a bitter midterm election year? Or do you think that this will further hurt the Republicans who are already facing a major schism in their own ranks?

I think it has hurt the Republicans in some ways, but the blame that I see is going more towards the Democrats who originally called for DADT to be repealed. From what I can see, the Republicans are not being hurt, but they are currently growing stronger in support amongst the general voting populace (which is a bunch of dipshits, nothing new there). More than likely, I think it is safe to say that the Republicans will take control of the Senate. There is no doubt in my mind that with all the economy propaganda talks, the Republicans will be seen as the saviors of us all. There is no schism of the Republicans, it's the Democrats that are under schism.

And don't forget Lady Gaga- did anybody see her outfit? LMAO

This does not contribute to the debate and is a moot point.

[huginnmuninn]

This does not contribute to the debate and is a mute point.

you mean moot point right?

[Sugaree]

you mean moot point right?

Yes, thanks for pointing that out. I've been running low on sleep the past few weeks and wasn't watching my spelling.

I'd like to have someone explain to me how DADT is an important issue right now in the country. The issue itself is blowing up just like the economy issue has been blowing up, I just don't get it.

[Rainstorm]

Yes, thanks for pointing that out. I've been running low on sleep the past few weeks and wasn't watching my spelling.

I'd like to have someone explain to me how DADT is an important issue right now in the country. The issue itself is blowing up just like the economy issue has been blowing up, I just don't get it.


Because, DADT is basically segregation against gay and lesbians. Was the African American movement in the 1960's really that important? Was it necessary right then to rise up?

They could do it then, Gays should be able to do it now.

[Sugaree]

Because, DADT is basically segregation against gay and lesbians. Was the African American movement in the 1960's really that important? Was it necessary right then to rise up?

They could do it then, Gays should be able to do it now.

The Civil Rights movement is different from DADT. Are gays and lesbians not allowed in certain public places? Are they forced to go to the back of a bus for a heterosexual? Do they have designated bathrooms and schools? No, they don't. The Civil Rights movement was to provide African Americans with more civil freedoms. DADT is nothing that can relate to the Civil Rights movement and comparing it to that is simply foolish. Also remember, that racial tensions had been going on for a few decades leading up to Civil Rights and it wasn't just in the 60s.

[ShyGuyInChicago]

In my opinion I feel that if people in the military cannot handle serving with gay comrade they they are the ones who should be kicked out.

[The Batman]

I'd like to have someone explain to me how DADT is an important issue right now in the country. The issue itself is blowing up just like the economy issue has been blowing up, I just don't get it.

A lot of LGBT people feel as if they can't join the military because of their sexuality and if they do go into it they'll have to go right back into the closet and hide a part of their life. If it didn't exist then people would be able to join without being afraid of being discriminated against and if they do gain a friendship with another soldier they don't have to hide that they are infact gay.

[Sugaree]

A lot of LGBT people feel as if they can't join the military because of their sexuality and if they do go into it they'll have to go right back into the closet and hide a part of their life. If it didn't exist then people would be able to join without being afraid of being discriminated against and if they do gain a friendship with another soldier they don't have to hide that they are infact gay.

They'll still be discriminated against, they just wouldn't have to fear being discharged from the military.

[Sith Lord 13]

A lot of LGBT people feel as if they can't join the military because of their sexuality and if they do go into it they'll have to go right back into the closet and hide a part of their life. If it didn't exist then people would be able to join without being afraid of being discriminated against and if they do gain a friendship with another soldier they don't have to hide that they are infact gay.

Actually, you just raised a point that is a reason FOR DADT. Having any person serving with a romantic partner raises issues and clouds judgments. Honestly, I feel that ANYTHING that could serve as a point of division as severely as sexual orientation should be governed by DADT. In a perfect world DADT isn't necessary. Then again, in a perfect world, the military isn't necessary. I see DADT as a sad but necessary part of the military, until sexual orientation isn't a dividing issue. And no, you can't force open mindedness from the top down. You have to let society continue to progress on its own.

[The Batman]

Actually, you just raised a point that is a reason FOR DADT. Having any person serving with a romantic partner raises issues and clouds judgments. Honestly, I feel that ANYTHING that could serve as a point of division as severely as sexual orientation should be governed by DADT. In a perfect world DADT isn't necessary. Then again, in a perfect world, the military isn't necessary. I see DADT as a sad but necessary part of the military, until sexual orientation isn't a dividing issue. And no, you can't force open mindedness from the top down. You have to let society continue to progress on its own.

Actually I didn't say anything about a romantic partner I said friendship and what you're saying could also be true with having women serving in the military. Gays are as likely to hook up in the army as guys are with other girls. Although I would think that soldiers would be more worried about not getting shot then hooking up with the guy next to them.

[willrod]

Actually I didn't say anything about a romantic partner I said friendship and what you're saying could also be true with having women serving in the military. Gays are as likely to hook up in the army as guys are with other girls. Although I would think that soldiers would be more worried about not getting shot then hooking up with the guy next to them.

Exactly- and I've read a couple books by gay men in the military. For the most part, they don't care whether someone's gay or not- they're more concerned about whether or not they're going to get killed. Several other countries, mostly in Europe (wow, how are they *not* more with the times than we are?) have already let gays serve openly in the military, and, guess what? There are no problems with "unit cohesion" or these silly arguments that the religious right uses as justification for continuing this policy.

[Dive to Survive]

I think that it was good that it failed.

[Church]

In the words of my father, "When I say watch my back, I dont want them watching my ass."

Basically he meant its a 'conflict of interest' which basically mean it throws a wrench into the norm by personal interest, because of conflict of interest issues officers cant marry NCO's etc. It would cause favoritism. Most guy units are separated from girl ones because they need to focus on their jobs not the opposite sex, or in this case, the same.

Also having a gay soldier in your unit could cause discrimination to him which breaks down the infrastructure of the unit, or the gay guy or girl could cause conflict by hitting on another soldier or could lead to sexual harassment if they made unwanted advances to the same sex.

So basically I think we should keep this policy, its simple if your gay just dont tell anyone.

[The Batman]

In the words of my father, "When I say watch my back, I dont want them watching my ass." Assuming all gay guys do is check out the asses of the guys they're serving with.

Basically he meant its a 'conflict of interest' which basically mean it throws a wrench into the norm by personal interest, because of conflict of interest issues officers cant marry NCO's etc. It would cause favoritism. Most guy units are separated from girl ones because they need to focus on their jobs not the opposite sex, or in this case, the same.
By making friends with other soldiers you're doing exactly that. Gays aren't going to start hitting on every guy with a pulse.
Also having a gay soldier in your unit could cause discrimination to him which breaks down the infrastructure of the unit, or the gay guy or girl could cause conflict by hitting on another soldier or could lead to sexual harassment if they made unwanted advances to the same sex.
I'm pretty sure over time they'll get over it just like they did when women were introduced into the military. You can't use fear of discrimination to stop someone from freely serving in the military it happens but it also changes. Better to start that change now instead of hoping it'll do it int he future. Also if someone is really going to think that just because someone is openly gay in the military that they are going to start hitting on another soldier they really need to tone down their ego and actually get informed.
So basically I think we should keep this policy, its simple if your gay just dont tell anyone.
Why should they have to hide it? If you're going to trust the person beside you with your life you should atleast be able to tell them about their life without having to be scared of being kicked out.

[Church]

Well personally I dont care if a fellow soldier is gay when I join the Air Force as long as they keep on their side of the bunk. But all in all Dont Ask Dont Tell was a great solution in my opinion. I dont understand why people cant be happy with it, your in the military to do a job, not 'be true to yourself'. If your gay, dont tell anyone and you wont get kicked out. Simple as that.

[The Batman]

But all in all Dont Ask Dont Tell was a great solution in my opinion. I dont understand why people cant be happy with it, your in the military to do a job, not 'be true to yourself'. If your gay, dont tell anyone and you wont get kicked out. Simple as that.
You shouldn't have to worry about getting kicked out just because you're gay. That's an incredibly stupid reason to kick out a soldier.

Well personally I dont care if a fellow soldier is gay when I join the Air Force as long as they keep on their side of the bunk. Not every gay guy is going to try and rape you just because you have a penis.

[Church]

You shouldn't have to worry about getting kicked out just because you're gay. That's an incredibly stupid reason to kick out a soldier.

Not every gay guy is going to try and rape you just because you have a penis.

What I'm saying is I dont care if someone is gay, dont flirt with me etc. and I wont have a issue.

And the military is a career, just do your job. Don't let your personal crap float around. For me when I'm in the military I have a job, so I'm going to do it. I'm not going to go around sharing secrets etc cause its a waste of time, so if your gay you shouldn't tell anyone cause it isn't their business and will get in way of the job.

[Whisper]

Well personally I dont care if a fellow soldier is gay when I join the Air Force as long as they keep on their side of the bunk. But all in all Dont Ask Dont Tell was a great solution in my opinion. I dont understand why people cant be happy with it, your in the military to do a job, not 'be true to yourself'. If your gay, dont tell anyone and you wont get kicked out. Simple as that.

Why would it matter if they were gay tho? What makes you think because theres a gay solider in your team they're going to hit on you?
Why do you believe someone should be punished for their sexuality?
Not to mention the thousands of men AND women that serve side by side all the time. How is that any different?

I have a question for you, why are you straight? what MAKES you straight? Think about it. The fact that you're sexually attracted to girls isn't what MAKES you straight, its a symptom of the condition.
WHY are you straight?
Do you think you could just change it?

Why is it considered okay to ostracize a fellow solider who's putting their life on the line to protect and serve their country.

[Church]

I'm straight cause I was born that way, my mind is wired for reproduction with a female cause that is how we further our species.

The reason why I think the military doesn't want gays in is cause it causes a conflict of interest. A conflict of interest is "1. Situation that has the potential to undermine the impartiality of a person because of the possibility of a clash between the person's self-interest and professional-interest or public-interest." So if your in a leadership position and if your gay and your attracted to another member of your unit then you may give them better benefits etc. Which isn't fair to others and can cause a breakdown of infrastructure.

[The Batman]

What I'm saying is I dont care if someone is gay, dont flirt with me etc. and I wont have a issue.

And the military is a career, just do your job. Don't let your personal crap float around. For me when I'm in the military I have a job, so I'm going to do it. I'm not going to go around sharing secrets etc cause its a waste of time, so if your gay you shouldn't tell anyone cause it isn't their business and will get in way of the job.

Personal crap floats around the military all the time. It's more than just a job you're risking your life and putting it in the hands of the person next to you. People make life long friends from the army and they do develop a personal relationship with them. You're overseas for months at a time and sometimes a year or more and all you have is the guy next to you he's going to be your best friend or your brother or you'll just be living a very sad and lonely life. So really if they want to tell them they are gay then i don't see a problem with that.

[Whisper]

I'm straight cause I was born that way, my mind is wired for reproduction with a female cause that is how we further our species.
So you believe it all has to do 100% with basic reproduction, that intimacy, sexuality, and the social aspects of life play absolutely no importance or bearing in life?
Do you believe being gay is a conscious choice? That whole Nurture, behaviorism mentality

The reason why I think the military doesn't want gays in is cause it causes a conflict of interest. A conflict of interest is "1. Situation that has the potential to undermine the impartiality of a person because of the possibility of a clash between the person's self-interest and professional-interest or public-interest." So if your in a leadership position and if your gay and your attracted to another member of your unit then you may give them better benefits etc. Which isn't fair to others and can cause a breakdown of infrastructure.


I'm sorry but thats the weakest argument I have ever herd in regards to this policy.
If that we're true, if that had any effect on the military organization, then it would already be prevalently seen and influenced by having men and women in the forces.
Not to mention, if that is the case, that is still no grounds to banish an entire group of people based on blind discrimination.
That would be an internal affairs issue with the individual who's abusing their position, period.

[The Joker]

I'd be fine with DADT if straight people weren't allowed to admit to being straight, or talk about their girlfriends or anything like that.

^I don't think that's right either, but hey, it has to be equal doesn't it?

[CaptainObvious]

I'm straight cause I was born that way, my mind is wired for reproduction with a female cause that is how we further our species.

The reason why I think the military doesn't want gays in is cause it causes a conflict of interest. A conflict of interest is "1. Situation that has the potential to undermine the impartiality of a person because of the possibility of a clash between the person's self-interest and professional-interest or public-interest." So if your in a leadership position and if your gay and your attracted to another member of your unit then you may give them better benefits etc. Which isn't fair to others and can cause a breakdown of infrastructure.

If you're in a leadership position and you're gay and attracted to someone in your unit, you better be able to keep that under control and make sure it doesn't cause a problem. There's no reason why gay people should be less capable of that than straight people, and it is discriminatory to assume that they are not.