Religion and Homosexuality

[The Ninja]

I believe that God exists and that he created the world. I also believe that he sent his son to die for our sins, but i have no problems with gays. mainly because the bible says that God loves everyone, but it also says he hate gays. now this is a contridiction and i would much rather believe that God loves everyone including gays rather than believe that he hates gays and everyone else as well. Now this sort of thinking at my young age in a way kind of scares me because i fear that i am falling away from my religion and every time i question the exsistance of God i feel sick to my stomach. I take that as a sign maybe not from God but maybe a sign from my conscience telling me to turn away from this thought. I really hate debating the topic of religion it has caused me to lose more friends online than anything else and yet im posting this in a debate thread wtf is wrong with me lol.

p.s. I'd prefer it if you focused on homosexuality in this debate not about God creating the world and sending his son and all that but if it is relavent feel free to mention it.

p.s.s. Am i correct in saying that it is not a choice to be gay it just happens? i mean you dont just get up one day when your 13 and decide to be gay correct?

[Rainstorm]

Ok, what you need to understand is that God hates the sin, not the person.


However, in biblical times, being gay and having sex with another man/woman wasn't evil and ment you would be killed.

Abomination ment unclean, meaning when it says "Gay are an abomination and will be put to death." simply means that their acts are unclean and they would most likely die of disease.

[Amnesiac]

I believe that God exists and that he created the world. I also believe that he sent his son to die for our sins, but i have no problems with gays. mainly because the bible says that God loves everyone, but it also says he hate gays. now this is a contridiction and i would much rather believe that God loves everyone including gays rather than believe that he hates gays and everyone else as well. Now this sort of thinking at my young age in a way kind of scares me because i fear that i am falling away from my religion and every time i question the exsistance of God i feel sick to my stomach. I take that as a sign maybe not from God but maybe a sign from my conscience telling me to turn away from this thought. I really hate debating the topic of religion it has caused me to lose more friends online than anything else and yet im posting this in a debate thread wtf is wrong with me lol.

I hate talking about religion with most people, so I see where you're coming from. People get so offended whenever I try to have a civilized discussion, it's just not possible unless you're in a proper place like ROTW.

The Bible says a lot of less-than-great things, most of which people ignore. Homosexuality isn't one of those ignored topics, sadly. There's nothing wrong with questioning religion at "such a young age" (it's not, trust me). It may well be a subconscious sign telling you to strip away from God. Do some research, it's up to you to decide what you want to believe.

p.s. I'd prefer it if you focused on homosexuality in this debate not about God creating the world and sending his son and all that but if it is relavent feel free to mention it.

p.s.s. Am i correct in saying that it is not a choice to be gay it just happens? i mean you dont just get up one day when your 13 and decide to be gay correct?

Homosexuality is natural (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_and_sexual_orientation) and observed in other animal species (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals). It's not a choice, that's been proven.

[The Ninja]

I hate talking about religion with most people, so I see where you're coming from. People get so offended whenever I try to have a civilized discussion, it's just not possible unless you're in a proper place like ROTW.

The Bible says a lot of less-than-great things, most of which people ignore. Homosexuality isn't one of those ignored topics, sadly. There's nothing wrong with questioning religion at "such a young age" (it's not, trust me). It may well be a subconscious sign telling you to strip away from God. Do some research, it's up to you to decide what you want to believe.



Homosexuality is natural (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_and_sexual_orientation) and observed in other animal species (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals). It's not a choice, that's been proven.

Thank you for that verification. I just wrote down my thoughts in an organized fashion about what i believe about homosexuality and gay marriage and i was wondering, what do you think my RELIGION teacher would say if i showed it to him.

[Amnesiac]

Thank you for that verification. I just wrote down my thoughts in an organized fashion about what i believe about homosexuality and gay marriage and i was wondering, what do you think my RELIGION teacher would say if i showed it to him.

You're welcome.

I don't know how open-minded your religion teacher is. He might respectfully acknowledge your views or deny them completely. I honestly can't say.

[The Ninja]

yeah i dont think im gonna show him it would be kinda awkward cause he's one of my favorite teachers.

[Amnesiac]

yeah i dont think im gonna show him it would be kinda awkward cause he's one of my favorite teachers.

You shouldn't be afraid to talk to your teachers. It's not like they will (or really can) flip out on you for having opinions.

[The Ninja]

You shouldn't be afraid to talk to your teachers. It's not like they will (or really can) flip out on you for having opinions.

lol true. Are you a christian?

[Amnesiac]

lol true. Are you a christian?

No, I'm an atheist. I have been for a long time.

My family's not religious, so I wasn't "indoctrinated" at a young age or anything. Ironically, I live across the street from an enormous Catholic church.

[Captor K]

Ok, what you need to understand is that God hates the sin, not the person.


However, in biblical times, being gay and having sex with another man/woman wasn't evil and ment you would be killed.

Abomination ment unclean, meaning when it says "Gay are an abomination and will be put to death." simply means that their acts are unclean and they would most likely die of disease.

The problem I have with this interpretation, and always have had with it, is that it's saying that God created something He hates. It says to me, "God doesn't mind if I'm gay, he just doesn't want me to BE gay." I don't get that train of thought, particularly if one agrees with the idea that 1, we're created in God's image, and 2, God loves us all. It also seems to imply that gay people are of lesser value to God than straights. And if God would dislike homosexuality so much, why haven't so many million of us - who have prayed in earnest to be changed - be oriented to heterosexuality at some point or another? Why do we remain gay until the day we die, no matter how much we may not want it?

And another thing in here that I tend to run across and irks me crazy is what's this so-called "sin" of homosexuality? Is it just gay-sex? If it is, that automatically cancels me out of the equation, as well as many others. Why would God be so obsessed with gay-sex? If two men or two women are in a committed, God-loving relationship, is he still gonna hate their "sin"? And how would straight sex be any better or more "sinful" than gay sex? Does banging the opposite sex suddenly mean I'm a more godly person, or that my ticket to heaven is guaranteed?

And isn't a little ironic that by denying who we are, living closeted "straight" lives, and marrying members of the opposite sex we can never completely love, we're committing the sin of lying? So, if gay men and women play it "straight" their entire lives, for God or not, they are lying to others about who they are, therefore they are sinning. Are they going to keep repenting for lying about being straight, yet still pretend to be straight? And if they are openly gay, they are committing the "sin" of homosexuality; but if they keep being gay, they are still sinning, and if they "switch straight" they're lying, which is sinning

So now what? Celibacy? We all know that does no one any good. Is this whole issue that black and white, or are there more gray areas to this than we have been led to believe?

Final bit, you err on that last point. To some extent, you are correct about the diseases, but do you know why? Why was gay sex an "abomination" or "unclean" at the time of the Levitical codes? Could there have possibly been a deeper issue regarding this gay-sex stuff? It's not quite what you think that passage sounds like, and unraveling these very answers is what led me to accept being gay. Isn't that funny?

By the way, I'm not attacking you at all. I'm just pointing out some of the common arguments I've heard ad nauseum that have never added up until I started scripture studying. I'm still learning stuff, and I don't have all the answers, but thank God this isn't on my worry-list anymore.

[Continuum]

Homosexuality is natural (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_and_sexual_orientation) and observed in other animal species (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals). It's not a choice, that's been proven.

If I'm correct, my Religious Studies teacher also agreed that Homosexuality is psychologically inherent, and not a sin. Doing something else more morbid that is related to your standing though, like Sodomy (includes various acts of 'unnatural' sex), and you will stand as a sore thumb on a conservative community.

Thank you for that verification. I just wrote down my thoughts in an organized fashion about what i believe about homosexuality and gay marriage and i was wondering, what do you think my RELIGION teacher would say if i showed it to him.

Your teacher is homophobic?

[Amnesiac]

If I'm correct, my Religious Studies teacher also agreed that Homosexuality is psychologically inherent, and not a sin. Doing something else more morbid that is related to your standing though, like Sodomy (includes various acts of 'unnatural' sex), and you will stand as a sore thumb on a conservative community.

There are plenty of conservatives who think homosexuality is a choice.

As for sodomy, I couldn't care less what two people do consentingly in the privacy of their homes.

[Dorsum Oppel]

The bible also endorses child slavery and states that anyone placing two different crops next to eachother or wearing a garment made from two seperate threads should be publically stoned to death.

[The Batman]

What people fail to realize is that you can't use old school beliefs in modern times. It just won't work. The bible doesn't say that everyone in every time should do this, it's saying what happened back then and how they acted and whatever. When Christians realize that the bible isn't as important as they think it is things will start to change for the better.

[INFERNO]

Every single Christian whom I've encountered who is opposed to homosexuality in the bible seems to be rather unaware of what the bible says. I'm not calling the OP as one of these Christians because he certainly is not. In the Ancient Greek texts, the book of Paul used a few Greek words which even today are still debated as to their true meanings but regardless of where one stands on the debate, two things are clear as day. First, the definition of some of these Greek words were twisted around to meet with social and political values of that time, leading to King James Version of the bible. Second, homosexual relationships were never frowned upon in any way, which is still present in modern-day translations of the bibles. Depending where one stands on the debate of some of the Greek words, Saint Paul may have had no problem with homosexual sex.

The word in question, "arsenkoites", is used about 20% of the time in reference to homosexuality in the Ancient Greek texts. The other 80% is used in reference to murder, prostitution, assault, rape, etc... . He also used words meaning femininity and inferiority often relating to sex but wasn't in reference to homosexual sex. As it got translated, it became to mean effeminite, spawning the idea that gays were efeminite and these translations often ignored the differences in social values back then, which is still happening now.

So that's my view on the bible and homosexuality. My opinion on whether homosexuality is a conscious choice or not is that I support it being natural, not something that's chosen.

[The Ninja]

If I'm correct, my Religious Studies teacher also agreed that Homosexuality is psychologically inherent, and not a sin. Doing something else more morbid that is related to your standing though, like Sodomy (includes various acts of 'unnatural' sex), and you will stand as a sore thumb on a conservative community.



Your teacher is homophobic?

I wouldn't say he's homophobic, it's just that he doesnt agree with homosexuality because of his religion.

[The Joker]

Minus the religion part, that's what a homophobe is.