Does porn contribute to violence against women?

[ShyGuyInChicago]

It is argue that porn portrays women as sex objects and sends the message that women exist only for the sexual enjoyment of men.

[nick]

I feel confident that the porn that I watch does not contribute to violence against women.

[Sapphire]

Could it be a continuous loop where negative/harmful attitudes towards women lead to the development of some types of pornography and the existence of such pornography leads to negative/harmful attitudes towards women?

[ShyGuyInChicago]

Could it be a continuous loop where negative/harmful attitudes towards women lead to the development of some types of pornography and the existence of such pornography leads to negative/harmful attitudes towards women?

I believe that is possible, but it can be difficult to know if that is the case?

[Amnesiac]

No, I don't think porn contributes to violence against women. You could equally argue that porn makes men look like sex objects to women.

I don't think some horny teenagers jacking off to porn is going to contribute to a rise in domestic violence.

[Sapphire]

I believe that is possible, but it can be difficult to know if that is the case?If it were easy to find a single cause then we would have found it by now, wouldn't we? :P
No, I don't think porn contributes to violence against women. You could equally argue that porn makes men look like sex objects to women.How's that?
I don't think some horny teenagers jacking off to porn is going to contribute to a rise in domestic violence.Not directly. But is it not possible that it could encourage said teens to develop negative attitudes towards females?

[Amnesiac]

How's that?

If you've ever paid attention to the dialouge in most regular porn, there's never any one person having "control" over the other. There's never a point where the man "takes control" of the woman or vice versa. It's very equalized, and the porn companies do that for a reason.

Not directly. But is it not possible that it could encourage said teens to develop negative attitudes towards females?

Not necessarily. As I mentioned before, porn videos don't put one gender above the other. They make it seem like a mutually enjoyable experience rather than something where one person dominates the other one. I highly doubt that would incite anyone to hit a woman.

[ShyGuyInChicago]

When I mentioned violence I also meant sexual violence as well.

[Azunite]

Hardcore hardcore hardcore porn does contribute violence to the woman, with all that pulling slapping dragging...
You think it would be good to do this in real sex but the girl would leave you lol

[Amnesiac]

Hardcore hardcore hardcore porn does contribute violence to the woman, with all that pulling slapping dragging...
You think it would be good to do this in real sex but the girl would leave you lol

Actually, even the hardcore porn companies publish their strict rules and safety guidelines, as well as the long lists of rights that they give models, to combat potential violence and please the public.

[Sapphire]

If you've ever paid attention to the dialouge in most regular porn, there's never any one person having "control" over the other. There's never a point where the man "takes control" of the woman or vice versa. It's very equalized, and the porn companies do that for a reason.

Not necessarily. As I mentioned before, porn videos don't put one gender above the other. They make it seem like a mutually enjoyable experience rather than something where one person dominates the other one. I highly doubt that would incite anyone to hit a woman.Regular porn? Why are you basing your statements on just one type of pornography? There are so many types of porn. To take the most "regular" type as you put it and to only look at this is a big mistake on your part tbh.

There are videos with central themes like "barely legal" girls, incest and teacher/student relations. And that's just a few off the top of my head. These all involve an unequal relationship (real or fabricated) between the people involved.
I could go on listing examples (there is no shortage) but I think you get the picture.

Violence towards women does also encompass sexual assault and rape btw.

Anyway. Now we are considering pornography in all its glory (not just the narrow category of "regular"), is it not possible for it to encourage the adoption of negative attitudes towards women?

Actually, even the hardcore porn companies publish their strict rules and safety guidelines, as well as the long lists of rights that they give models, to combat potential violence and please the public.Those rules and guidelines protect the porn stars but it does not prevent bad attitudes developing within the viewers.

[Amnesiac]

Regular porn? Why are you basing your statements on just one type of pornography? There are so many types of porn. To take the most "regular" type as you put it and to only look at this is a big mistake on your part tbh.

There are videos with central themes like "barely legal" girls, incest and teacher/student relations. And that's just a few off the top of my head. These all involve an unequal relationship (real or fabricated) between the people involved.
I could go on listing examples (there is no shortage) but I think you get the picture.

Violence towards women does also encompass sexual assault and rape btw.

Anyway. Now we are considering pornography in all its glory (not just the narrow category of "regular"), is it not possible for it to encourage the adoption of negative attitudes towards women?

I was discussing regular/"mainstream" porn because that's the most popular type of porn. Yes, we could go an divulge into the world of internet pornography, and analyze every last fetish. I don't believe sexual assault, rape and other types of violence against women are the result of porn. Pornography instead provides sexual release for men and "cools them off". It is true that there are types of porn where the relationship between the two or more involved is unequal, but for such influences to build up to a man going out and violating women requires much more.

I believe sexual assault and violence against women is the result of men who are lonely, who have felt neglected by the opposite gender. They've never had the opportunity to have sex or stay in a long-term relationship, and all the anguish that results from such isolation builds up to the point of anger and violence. It can also result from abuse by motherly figures as a child. That being said, I seriously doubt the subtle undertones presented in pornography would compel a man to go out and violate a woman. No, it requires much more influence emotionally.

Those rules and guidelines protect the porn stars but it does not prevent bad attitudes developing within the viewers.

Hardcore porn companies also willingly dedicate the introductions and endings to their videos with interviews of the model involved, in the process showing their complete consent and willingness to perform, their interest in the fetish involved, and their personality as a woman.

[Sapphire]

I was discussing regular/"mainstream" porn because that's the most popular type of porn. Yes, we could go an divulge into the world of internet pornography, and analyze every last fetish. I don't believe sexual assault, rape and other types of violence against women are the result of porn. Pornography instead provides sexual release for men and "cools them off". It is true that there are types of porn where the relationship between the two or more involved is unequal, but for such influences to build up to a man going out and violating women requires much more.I'm not saying that porn is the cause of violence towards women. I'm saying that it can have a negative effect on the attitudes of the viewers. That is a big difference.

When internet porn is so accessible, points made that ignore it are moot. I would put all I own on the likelihood that teenagers nowadays access internet porn more than any other form (i.e. magazines). How you can deem it reasonable to ignore the variety and accessibility of internet porn in this debate is truly beyond me.

I believe sexual assault and violence against women is the result of men who are lonely, who have felt neglected by the opposite gender. They've never had the opportunity to have sex or stay in a long-term relationship, and all the anguish that results from such isolation builds up to the point of anger and violence. It can also result from abuse by motherly figures as a child.Lol. You should be placed in a room with a sex offender so you can see that they aren't all either poor, lonely, isolated virgins or abused as children by a mother figure.
That being said, I seriously doubt the subtle undertones presented in pornography would compel a man to go out and violate a woman. No, it requires much more influence emotionally.I agree. But the foundations can be contributed to by the explicit and implicit messages in some types of porn.
Hardcore porn companies also willingly dedicate the introductions and endings to their videos with interviews of the model involved, in the process showing their complete consent and willingness to perform, their interest in the fetish involved, and their personality as a woman.This is not applicable for even most of the porn one can access. Nor does it mean that everyone will sit through it patiently with the intent of getting to know her personality. And it is interesting (not to mention important) that you have clearly indicated that the woman is more often than not the focus of the video. If the videos were to portray equality between the sexes then why is this focus on the female over (not alongside) the male so persistent?

You have yet to answer my main question:
Is it not possible for pornography in general (not just one type of porn) to encourage the adoption of negative attitudes towards women?

[Amnesiac]

I'm not saying that porn is the cause of violence towards women. I'm saying that it can have a negative effect on the attitudes of the viewers. That is a big difference.

Possibly, but I still believe there would already have to be existing emotional bias against women for that to occur. Most people (I say most, not all) have set of morals that they abide by. People in modern society respect women. If anything, porn should have a positive impact on the way people view women: as people to respect, work with and love, so you can possibly get that sex in return (sounds stupid, I know :P)

When internet porn is so accessible, points made that ignore it are moot. I would put all I own on the likelihood that teenagers nowadays access internet porn more than any other form (i.e. magazines). How you can deem it reasonable to ignore the variety and accessibility of internet porn in this debate is truly beyond me.

I don't deny the fact that porn is more accessible than ever. It has been for almost two decades now. The diversification and expanded availability of porn hasn't undermined society's view of women. People are still aware or their morals, what's right and what's wrong, and it is accepted that negative attitudes towards women are wrong. Only a person with an unstable emotional background would become so compromised as to commit violence against women partially due to pornography.

Lol. You should be placed in a room with a sex offender so you can see that they aren't all either poor, lonely, isolated virgins or abused as children by a mother figure.

I agree. But the foundations can be contributed to by the explicit and implicit messages in some types of porn.

Ha, no thank you :P

People who abuse others usually come from unstable backgrounds. They feel rendered useless by society and take out that bottled up anger on certain groups of people. Again, while porn may give them sadistic ideas, it certainly isn't a major factor in violence against women. It only raises those negative attitudes in people who are "unstable".

This is not applicable for even most of the porn one can access. Nor does it mean that everyone will sit through it patiently with the intent of getting to know her personality. And it is interesting (not to mention important) that you have clearly indicated that the woman is more often than not the focus of the video. If the videos were to portray equality between the sexes then why is this focus on the female over (not alongside) the male so persistent?

You have yet to answer my main question:
Is it not possible for pornography in general (not just one type of porn) to encourage the adoption of negative attitudes towards women?

Because the overwhelming majority of porn viewers are male, it would be common sense to have the woman be in the spotlight. When I was talking about equality, I meant in the sex acts performed and the minimal discussion that occurs between the two. It is true that the camera will focus almost entirely on the woman, but that is due to the demographics of porn viewers, not the stereotype of women as sex objects.

Specifically answering your question: It is possible that porn can encourage negative attitudes towards women, but only in compromised individuals who have lost their sense of right and wrong and have unstable emotional thoughts. In the general, non-criminal population, pornography does not increase the likelihood of men adopting negative attitudes towards women.

[Jess]

No but I wouldn't look at it anyways

[Sith Lord 13]

Regular porn? Why are you basing your statements on just one type of pornography? There are so many types of porn. To take the most "regular" type as you put it and to only look at this is a big mistake on your part tbh.

If you're gonna look at all kinds of porn, you're gonna have to include femdom porn, which, if anything, encourages violence against men.

I'd say that porn may worsen the state of one already psychologically ill, and may even give them ideas as to acts to perform, but it is not responsible for those attitudes.

[Sapphire]

Possibly, but I still believe there would already have to be existing emotional bias against women for that to occur. Most people (I say most, not all) have set of morals that they abide by. People in modern society respect women. If anything, porn should have a positive impact on the way people view women: as people to respect, work with and love, so you can possibly get that sex in return (sounds stupid, I know :P)This actually doesn't apply to the bit you quoted from me.

It was interesting to learn that you think people have a fully developed set of morals by the time they become curious about sex and porn.
It is also interesting that you think we have equality between the genders. Especially when women are still paid less than men for doing the same jobs, for example. A society that believes women can be partially or totally responsible for getting raped is not a society that views men and women as equals.

How, may I ask, can porn have a positive impact on the perception of women?

I don't deny the fact that porn is more accessible than ever. It has been for almost two decades now. The diversification and expanded availability of porn hasn't undermined society's view of women. People are still aware or their morals, what's right and what's wrong, and it is accepted that negative attitudes towards women are wrong. Only a person with an unstable emotional background would become so compromised as to commit violence against women partially due to pornography.If you don't deny it, why did you not acknowledge it? Why did you ignore it in the point you were making?

Ha, no thank you :P

People who abuse others usually come from unstable backgrounds. They feel rendered useless by society and take out that bottled up anger on certain groups of people. Again, while porn may give them sadistic ideas, it certainly isn't a major factor in violence against women. It only raises those negative attitudes in people who are "unstable".You are giving a rather blinkered view of sex offenders and their feelings but oh well.

I'm not saying that porn gives them ideas, the compulsion or a whole set of beliefs. I'm saying that it can encourage a persons negative views.

Because the overwhelming majority of porn viewers are male, it would be common sense to have the woman be in the spotlight. When I was talking about equality, I meant in the sex acts performed and the minimal discussion that occurs between the two. It is true that the camera will focus almost entirely on the woman, but that is due to the demographics of porn viewers, not the stereotype of women as sex objects.That could actually be re-worded and still be accurate: "Because the overwhelming majority of porn viewers are male, it would be common sense to objectify the woman and not the man."
How are the sex acts equal in porn?
How is covering a girl in spunk from two or more guys portraying her in an equal light to them?

Specifically answering your question: It is possible that porn can encourage negative attitudes towards women, but only in compromised individuals who have lost their sense of right and wrong and have unstable emotional thoughts. In the general, non-criminal population, pornography does not increase the likelihood of men adopting negative attitudes towards women.All I wanted was for you to acknowledge the possibility.

I agree that most men won't be influenced in such a way. But children, teenagers and those who have their own issues are not guaranteed to follow the same trend, are they?

[Sith Lord 13]

How, may I ask, can porn have a positive impact on the perception of women?

Since you said to look at all brands of porn, I again call your attention to "Femdom" porn, which would encourage already submissive males to elevate women to a higher status than themselves, and in some cases consider themselves nothing more than tools for the woman's enjoyment.

[Sapphire]

Since you said to look at all brands of porn, I again call your attention to "Femdom" porn, which would encourage already submissive males to elevate women to a higher status than themselves, and in some cases consider themselves nothing more than tools for the woman's enjoyment.
True, femdom porn can have that effect. But it's not good that we can't rattle off a list of a decent length that could benefit the perception of women.

[Amnesiac]

This actually doesn't apply to the bit you quoted from me.

It was interesting to learn that you think people have a fully developed set of morals by the time they become curious about sex and porn.
It is also interesting that you think we have equality between the genders. Especially when women are still paid less than men for doing the same jobs, for example. A society that believes women can be partially or totally responsible for getting raped is not a society that views men and women as equals.

I really do believe most people have at least some sense of wrong and right by the time they become interested in sex. It's only a very small percentage of the population that's so emotionally corrupted that they have strong views against certain groups, such as women. We may not have full equality between the genders, such as issues with pay, but women and men are more equal in society than ever.

How, may I ask, can porn have a positive impact on the perception of women?

It could be argued that porn makes women look more attractive in the eyes of men. It's not like men are going to start hating women because of porn, if anything it would make them look better, especially if you're a lonely virgin or something.

If you don't deny it, why did you not acknowledge it? Why did you ignore it in the point you were making?

I don't see its relevance in the debate. Yes, porn is widely available. There's no evidence showing that its widespread availability has had any impact on criminal acts against women.

IYou are giving a rather blinkered view of sex offenders and their feelings but oh well.

I'm not saying that porn gives them ideas, the compulsion or a whole set of beliefs. I'm saying that it can encourage a persons negative views.

Yes, that's possible, as I stated before. However, not in any normally adjusted person who follows society's general set of morals.

That could actually be re-worded and still be accurate: "Because the overwhelming majority of porn viewers are male, it would be common sense to objectify the woman and not the man."
How are the sex acts equal in porn?
How is covering a girl in spunk from two or more guys portraying her in an equal light to them?

I could argue that when the woman's on top of the man and "riding" him, they would be perceived in "control", just like you're in control of a horse when you're literally riding it. Besides, sex acts are equal in porn not only because the partners switch the "dominant positions", as I just explained, but also because both of them are showing how they enjoy the acts they are performing. That's why so many porn stars dedicate their lives to the industry — because they enjoy it. Even in the extreme bondage videos that have been mentioned throughout this debate, the person in submission (be it the male or female) still shows a sense of enjoyment during the acts.

All I wanted was for you to acknowledge the possibility.

I agree that most men won't be influenced in such a way. But children, teenagers and those who have their own issues are not guaranteed to follow the same trend, are they?

I believe, in teenagers, that porn would at most make them think "I want to try that!" Yes, there are emotionally unstable teenagers who could be wrongly intimidated by porn and develop negative attitudes towards women. However, in the vast majority of teens, they would otherwise be attracted to the idea of intimacy and work positively to get it. Whether teens being attracted to sex is a good or a bad thing is a different topic, but I don't believe it would lead to the development of negative attitudes towards women.

[Sapphire]

I'm losing interest in this very quickly.
But I want to make it clear to you (and maybe it will set in this time) that I do not think that pornography of any type causes men to rape or beat women. I think it can contribute to the formation of negative attitudes towards them. And not just within a minority that can be disregarded as already noticeably unstable.

If the only benefit to porn (as far as how women are viewed) that you can think of is "Oh, they'll look better to men" then that is piss poor. For porn to be a positive thing in society it has to achieve more than that.

It does not matter if the porn stars are enjoying it (or showing enjoyment) if the inherent message is one of degradation, objectification or so on. In fact it possibly makes it more damaging as the viewers may be led to think that it's ok for that type of behaviour to occur since the women they've seen doing it have enjoyed it.

And, though I shouldn't really be surprised by this, you seem to overestimate how resilient, stable and developed young people are. Or you seem to underestimate how persistent messages can affect them.

I can't be arsed with this any more and have been gently reminded why I left here in the first place.

[Amnesiac]

I'm losing interest in this very quickly.
But I want to make it clear to you (and maybe it will set in this time) that I do not think that pornography of any type causes men to rape or beat women. I think it can contribute to the formation of negative attitudes towards them. And not just within a minority that can be disregarded as already noticeably unstable.

I understand your view. I happen to disagree. I don't think porn contributes to the generation of negative attitudes, unless it's in the minority group I mentioned beforehand. Because there have been no reports, since there is no data on this issue, both sides can be debated.

If the only benefit to porn (as far as how women are viewed) that you can think of is "Oh, they'll look better to men" then that is piss poor. For porn to be a positive thing in society it has to achieve more than that.

I don't think that's the "only benefit to porn", nor did I label it a benefit. Porn isn't supposed to be a "positive thing in society". It's a form of entertainment. I do think that, for some people who haven't yet experienced sex, it would incite them to work towards doing it someday.

It does not matter if the porn stars are enjoying it (or showing enjoyment) if the inherent message is one of degradation, objectification or so on. In fact it possibly makes it more damaging as the viewers may be led to think that it's ok for that type of behaviour to occur since the women they've seen doing it have enjoyed it.

Porn doesn't have a "message". Again, it's a form of entertainment. It's not a work of art, like a novel or painting.

As for "that type of behavior" — sex — are you saying that it's bad that people should be led to the thought that sex is appropriate? I don't believe pornography goes out of its way to objectify and degrade women. It could be argued that porn degrades men as mindless drones who only exist to have sex with women and "please" them. The simple fact is that almost all porn viewers are normal people, with a completely natural need to release sexual tension. When people watch porn, their sense of right and wrong doesn't suddenly disappear. This is the 21st century, men have come to respect women, and the small number of people who don't are unstable.

And, though I shouldn't really be surprised by this, you seem to overestimate how resilient, stable and developed young people are. Or you seem to underestimate how persistent messages can affect them.

Yes, younger people are less emotionally resilient. However, I believe that most teenagers are well-intentioned. There are some that haven't made the right choices in life. However, as we could easily see here on VT or by talking to any group of teenagers, MANY teens watch porn, and haven't been emotionally affected by it at all. It's simply another form of entertainment. It's the same as arguing that some horror movie about a serial killer would drive a teenager to go out and kill people. The truth is, that doesn't happen.

The primary reason people watch porn is for sexual release. Arguing that porn somehow contributes to negativity towards women, from my point of view, doesn't make much sense. People don't take porn seriously, just like people don't take movies or TV shows seriously. They're all just forms of entertainment, designed to get our attention and money for an hour or two. This argument, that porn contributes to sexism, is just as bad as the argument that TV contributes to violence. Only a minority of people, a very small, possibly non existent minority, would start to develop negative views of the opposite gender solely based on porn. Only a minority of people would begin to develop negative views on women based partly on porn. If it really were an issue, there would surely be more research and publicity on the subject, but there isn't.

I can't be arsed with this any more and have been gently reminded why I left here in the first place.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

[Sapphire]

I understand your view. I happen to disagree. I don't think porn contributes to the generation of negative attitudes, unless it's in the minority group I mentioned beforehand. Because there have been no reports, since there is no data on this issue, both sides can be debated.Since there are no reports etc, how can you be so sure in your assertion that only the minority you have specified are likely to be affected negatively like this by porn?

I don't think that's the "only benefit to porn", nor did I label it a benefit. Porn isn't supposed to be a "positive thing in society". It's a form of entertainment. I do think that, for some people who haven't yet experienced sex, it would incite them to work towards doing it someday.Entertainment is supposed to be positive so how can porn be a form of entertainment and not be positive?


Porn doesn't have a "message". Again, it's a form of entertainment. It's not a work of art, like a novel or painting.All forms of entertainment, literature, art etc have messages - intentional or unintentional - so, yes, it does carry messages.

As for "that type of behavior" — sex — are you saying that it's bad that people should be led to the thought that sex is appropriate? I don't believe pornography goes out of its way to objectify and degrade women. It could be argued that porn degrades men as mindless drones who only exist to have sex with women and "please" them. The simple fact is that almost all porn viewers are normal people, with a completely natural need to release sexual tension. When people watch porn, their sense of right and wrong doesn't suddenly disappear. This is the 21st century, men have come to respect women, and the small number of people who don't are unstable.If you paid attention to the context I was using then you would know that the phrase "that type of behaviour" was with regard to degrading women, objectifying women etc not sex in general.

Also, since men are far more often seen violating women than women are seen violating men, how do you suppose that it is degrading to men? They are the ones more often portrayed as being superior, in control etc.

People have apparently come to respect women and yet we have a frighteningly low conviction rate of sex offenders, nightclubs across the country which hold Nuts (a porn mag) nights, lower salaries for women and greater pressure on women to fulfill more tasks than men...Hmmm...forgive me for not being convinced.

You also talk as if purpose and good intentions on behalf of the viewer protect them from any potentially damaging content. This is not true and I find it disgusting, though not at all surprising, that you have asserted as much.

Yes, younger people are less emotionally resilient. However, I believe that most teenagers are well-intentioned. There are some that haven't made the right choices in life. However, as we could easily see here on VT or by talking to any group of teenagers, MANY teens watch porn, and haven't been emotionally affected by it at all. It's simply another form of entertainment. It's the same as arguing that some horror movie about a serial killer would drive a teenager to go out and kill people. The truth is, that doesn't happen.As I have stated before, it is not just any other type of entertainment.
How can watching porn and watching the simpsons ever be included in the same category?

As I have also stated, good intentions do not protect you from the messages embodied within certain acts/scenarios etc.

Being a young person makes one more vulnerable to messages like this and that is why age restrictions are put into place. You won't want to recognise this (nor will the majority of other teens) but it is true.

The primary reason people watch porn is for sexual release. Arguing that porn somehow contributes to negativity towards women, from my point of view, doesn't make much sense. People don't take porn seriously, just like people don't take movies or TV shows seriously. They're all just forms of entertainment, designed to get our attention and money for an hour or two. This argument, that porn contributes to sexism, is just as bad as the argument that TV contributes to violence. Only a minority of people, a very small, possibly non existent minority, would start to develop negative views of the opposite gender solely based on porn. Only a minority of people would begin to develop negative views on women based partly on porn. If it really were an issue, there would surely be more research and publicity on the subject, but there isn't.Here I will direct you to my previous comments on porn and whether it is a cause of rape etc as I am fed up of repeating myself.

As you have said, there is a lack of conclusive literature on this topic so your attempts to belittle and discredit my view are not going to win you the debate.

I'm sorry you feel that way.So am I. VirtualTeen was once my home, but it hasn't been for a long while.

[Amnesiac]

Since there are no reports etc, how can you be so sure in your assertion that only the minority you have specified are likely to be affected negatively like this by porn?

Since there is so little coverage of this topic, it would be safe to assume that since it's such a non-issue it would only apply to a small group of people.

Entertainment is supposed to be positive so how can porn be a form of entertainment and not be positive?

All forms of entertainment, literature, art etc have messages - intentional or unintentional - so, yes, it does carry messages.

I don't see why you think entertainment is "supposed to be positive". It's simply supposed to entertain ("agreeable occupation for the mind; diversion; amusement"), something that occupies your time doesn't necessarily have to be positive, nor does it have to carry a specific message. There are plenty of TV shows that serve no purpose but to entertain (Family Guy, for example).

If you paid attention to the context I was using then you would know that the phrase "that type of behaviour" was with regard to degrading women, objectifying women etc not sex in general.

Sorry bout that.

Also, since men are far more often seen violating women than women are seen violating men, how do you suppose that it is degrading to men? They are the ones more often portrayed as being superior, in control etc.

Well, if porn can make men have negative feelings towards women, wouldn't it also stir negative feelings towards men in women? One could argue that porn makes men look like greedy sex machines who wish only to do it all day.

As I have said before, I don't think that most types of porn portray men as in control of women. You could argue that bondage porn makes women look submissive, but there is fendom porn as well, which is arguably as popular as regular bondage.

People have apparently come to respect women and yet we have a frighteningly low conviction rate of sex offenders, nightclubs across the country which hold Nuts (a porn mag) nights, lower salaries for women and greater pressure on women to fulfill more tasks than men...Hmmm...forgive me for not being convinced.

I understand there are still inequalities between women and men. However, I don't consider the "Nuts nights" thing as one. It's simply entertainment, not discrimination.

Also, not all sex offenders abuse women.

You also talk as if purpose and good intentions on behalf of the viewer protect them from any potentially damaging content. This is not true and I find it disgusting, though not at all surprising, that you have asserted as much.

Well, I'm sorry you consider my opinion "disgusting". The moral values of the people protect them from not just porn, but other "potentially damaging content" such as violent or sexually powerful movies and TV shows. If this were "not true", we would have a much more criminal-infested society than we do now.

As I have stated before, it is not just any other type of entertainment.
How can watching porn and watching the simpsons ever be included in the same category?

I never compared porn and The Simpsons. I'm talking about rated-R, after-midnight horror movies. Porn may be different from other types of entertainment as that it isn't rated for content, but the basic principles of it are the same.

As I have also stated, good intentions do not protect you from the messages embodied within certain acts/scenarios etc.

Being a young person makes one more vulnerable to messages like this and that is why age restrictions are put into place. You won't want to recognise this (nor will the majority of other teens) but it is true.

Age restrictions on entertainment aren't mandatory and are ignored by many people. I know plenty of people my age who have watched porn or R-rated movies, they are mature enough to handle it. I believe age restrictions are nothing more than a political stunt to please conservative parents.

Here I will direct you to my previous comments on porn and whether it is a cause of rape etc as I am fed up of repeating myself.

As you have said, there is a lack of conclusive literature on this topic so your attempts to belittle and discredit my view are not going to win you the debate.

I'm trying to address your "negativity towards women" questions, not rape. I didn't mention violence in the paragraph you quoted, I was talking about "negative views towards women".

I am not trying to discredit or belittle your opinions, I'm simply here to debate a topic I have differing views on.

[huginnmuninn]

by the age people start being drawn to porn their personalities and characters are almost all the way made up. so maybe people who feel negatively towards women feel more intrigued by porn and it attracts them more than the average person.

[Sapphire]

Since there is so little coverage of this topic, it would be safe to assume that since it's such a non-issue it would only apply to a small group of people.Here you have made a grave error of judgment. Just because literature outlining porn as a single cause of porn is lacking doesn't mean it doesn't contribute to the issue of negative attitudes towards women.

I don't see why you think entertainment is "supposed to be positive". It's simply supposed to entertain ("agreeable occupation for the mind; diversion; amusement"), something that occupies your time doesn't necessarily have to be positive, nor does it have to carry a specific message. There are plenty of TV shows that serve no purpose but to entertain (Family Guy, for example).Would you consider watching someone get raped/murdered/beat unconscious for real amusing or agreeable occupation for your mind? No. Why? Because it is serious and gives rise to negative thoughts/feelings/actions. Porn can more easily be classed as entertainment as you consciously know that the actors are willing etc etc but similar feelings and thoughts do arise from seeing some types of porn. This is why I do not class it as "entertainment".

Well, if porn can make men have negative feelings towards women, wouldn't it also stir negative feelings towards men in women? One could argue that porn makes men look like greedy sex machines who wish only to do it all day.That is one possibility. Another possibility is that the females grow up thinking that this is how women are to be treated and this is how they should act.

As I have said before, I don't think that most types of porn portray men as in control of women. You could argue that bondage porn makes women look submissive, but there is fendom porn as well, which is arguably as popular as regular bondage.Arguably as popular as regular bondage? I take it you are not counting lesbian femdom porn in this so I am very puzzled as to how you reached this conclusion.

I understand there are still inequalities between women and men. However, I don't consider the "Nuts nights" thing as one. It's simply entertainment, not discrimination.You don't consider competitions to see which woman in the club is most willing to take her clothes off and has the best talent at posing in explicit positions to be the slightest bit sexist?

Note how it is simply women who are allowed to enter this competition, for starters. Secondly, note how they have to remove clothing to progress. Then thirdly, note how they have to pose in explicitly sexy positions to win (assuming, of course, that they have satisfied the first two criteria).

Also, not all sex offenders abuse women.I never said they were so moot point.

Well, I'm sorry you consider my opinion "disgusting". The moral values of the people protect them from not just porn, but other "potentially damaging content" such as violent or sexually powerful movies and TV shows. If this were "not true", we would have a much more criminal-infested society than we do now.When they are fully developed adults they are protected. But when they are young, not fully developed or lacking in some other cognitive aspect they are not completely protected by their moral framework.

And for the last bloody time, I am NOT saying that porn causes men to commit crimes against women.

I never compared porn and The Simpsons. I'm talking about rated-R, after-midnight horror movies. Porn may be different from other types of entertainment as that it isn't rated for content, but the basic principles of it are the same.You said that porn is entertainment and so I compared it with another form of entertainment to illustrate to you just how stupid a classification you had made.

Age restrictions on entertainment aren't mandatory and are ignored by many people. I know plenty of people my age who have watched porn or R-rated movies, they are mature enough to handle it. I believe age restrictions are nothing more than a political stunt to please conservative parents.You'll be surprised then to learn that the age restrictions passed on forms of entertainment are actually legal restrictions. They are put in place to protect minors from inappropriate content.

I'm trying to address your "negativity towards women" questions, not rape. I didn't mention violence in the paragraph you quoted, I was talking about "negative views towards women".Fine, let me spell it out as you are clearly incapable of recognising when you are repeating yourself.

Here I will direct you to my previous comments on porn, the effects it can have on those of a certain age or mental state and negative attitudes towards women. Some people do not have a strong enough moral code (because of age, moral development or other cognitive difficulties) to be protected from the negative messages carried by some types of pornography.

Legal restrictions would not be in place if this were not the case.

I am not trying to discredit or belittle your opinions, I'm simply here to debate a topic I have differing views on.You are repeating the same things over and over (oftentimes in the same post) which is not debating. Consequently, I am having to repeat myself over and over so your points are addressed and to prevent you bitching about me dismissing crap or so on.

[Sapphire]

by the age people start being drawn to porn their personalities and characters are almost all the way made up. so maybe people who feel negatively towards women feel more intrigued by porn and it attracts them more than the average person.
And at what age do you suppose people are drawn to porn?

Personally, I fail to see how 12 year olds (and younger) can possibly have fully developed personalities...

[huginnmuninn]

if the women who did the porn thought it was wrong would they do it...no

[huginnmuninn]

And at what age do you suppose people are drawn to porn?

Personally, I fail to see how 12 year olds (and younger) can possibly have fully developed personalities...

i didnt say fully developed personality and usually the personality doesnt change greatly after about 14 except when they experience something life changing or traumatic

[Sapphire]

if the women who did the porn thought it was wrong would they do it...no
Lol.
People know that smoking is bad but do they avoid it? No.
People know that drinking too much is bad but do they avoid that? No.
People know that deforestation is bad but have they stopped? No.
People know that avoiding exercise is bad but do they all do it? No.

What people think, do and know is often different from reality. So, moot point.

i didnt say fully developed personality and usually the personality doesnt change greatly after about 14 except when they experience something life changing or traumatic

Hmm...Considering that a lot of changes occur in the brains of teenagers, I have to laugh and disagree.

[Amnesiac]

Okay, this seems to be going nowhere, plus it's getting uncomfortably heated, and I don't have time to keep doing these long and somewhat confusing responses, so I'll just restate my opinion and let the thread continue on its own. I have no desire to enter a debate in which harsh comments are traded.

1. It is possible that pornography has an impact on negative viewpoints towards women. However, the lack of evidence supporting this claim (and, surprisingly, one to the contrary (http://www.isil.org/resources/lit/banning-porn.html)) makes it difficult to analyze. It could be argued that pornography exploits women as sex objects and nothing more. However, a majority of porn viewers are average men, members of society. Society's current set of morals mandates that men respect women as equals, and it is doubtful that a man would become so intimidated by pornography that they would betray these unspoken rules.

2. Pornography is nothing more than entertainment. It is viewed for its content, not necessarily the "values" it holds. It can be safely assumed that any normally adjusted person would not go further than to view porn simply for sexual release.

3. Sexism is still a problem in society. However, there is a limit to how "equal" two opposite groups can be. The role of women and men in the sex industry will always be different. Due to historical and biological reasons, it could be argued that men will always appear "in control" during sex, since women are on the receiving end of the act. The increasing availability and popularity of once-rare bondage and fendom pornography may also impact how the two genders appear in regards to "control".

4. Younger audiences can be more easily intimidated by pornography. However, most teenagers, by the time they enter high school, have matured enough to handle this type of content. They have been taught about sexuality and equality. They are, by this time, only a couple of years under the age of consent and are biologically ready to reproduce. A majority of high school teens can be considered mature enough to watch R-rated content and pornography. Age groups that are younger and have not gone through sex education may be negatively impacted by pornography.

[Sapphire]

1) For starters that link you provided doesn't actually reach a proper, explained conclusion so there was no point to including it. You are always using the terms "man" and "woman" but what about the cases where a "boy" or "girl" views such material?
Yes, men have to respect women as individuals but only until they get raped in which case it is perfectly acceptable to abandon this respect and blame the woman (partially or fully)...A lovely, respectful society towards women!

2) Just because it is viewed for its content does not mean that the mind is completely protected from the messages contained within it on any level.

3) Appearing in control due to historical and/or other reasons or being purposefully portrayed as being in control are difficult to distinguish. So, stalemate I guess.

4) Children younger than 13 are often exposed to pornography so how can you be, so sure that they have matured enough by the time they will be exposed to it? How can you be so sure that someone as young as 13 (baring in mind that some girls start puberty at 10yrs old) will be prepared to view adult material while being robust enough to not be affected by it?

[The Dark Lord]

Is there actually any proof that porn contributes to violence against women?

[Sapphire]

Is there actually any proof that porn contributes to violence against women?
Is there evidence to rule it out as a contributory factor?

I am aware of evidence that links negative attitudes towards women and pornography.

[The Dark Lord]

Is there evidence to rule it out as a contributory factor?.

No, similarly to the way that apples haven't been ruled out as a contributory factor. I think your unbringing and basic decency are more important factors

I am aware of evidence that links negative attitudes towards women and pornography.

Source this please

[Sapphire]

No, similarly to the way that apples haven't been ruled out as a contributory factor.Then you don't know what you are talking about as there is literature out there to argue either way on this topic.
Maybe read some of it and then come back to play :P