Islam: Sweeping Generalisation and the False Dichotemy

[Magus]

Well. I don't know if it is the best to post it here or somewhere else - let the time speak.

Anyways.

I don't need to quote PoP:WW - Here is your weapons of mass destruction:

Prophet of Room! (http://prophetofdoom.net/), The religion of piece (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/), Islam clock (http://www.islam-watch.org/), The (in?)famous Faith Freedom.org! (http://www.faithfreedom.org/), Wiki Salami Lick'em! (http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Main_Page).

(Because I am sick and tired of refuting unintelligent youtubers) OK. Now you have your arsenal. Comment anything, be it criticism or praise. Talk about the issues of contemporary Islam and to the life of Mohammad and the new born Islam and etc.

Almost everything related to Islam. From the issue of God's existence, the authenticity of Quran, to the "9/11" Mosque. Almost everything!

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Note that I do come from an Islamic background, but that does not make me a pro-Islam in anyway, now that I am an irreligious(or a secularist) sceptic. This is also called as playing the Devil's advocate.
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So, let the discussion, begin.

[darkwoon]

Islam is just a trendy target for criticism - you know, the "if something goes wrong, it is because those blasted muslims". In the past or in other areas of the world, it was the jews/christians/catholics/protestants/communists/capitalists... The list is endless. I have on my bookshelves two books that are bindings of French magazines from the 1901-1905 era (we found those in an antiques fair for about 5€...:) ). Just about every issue contains at least one article on how Germans are stupid/evil/dangerous/treacherous, how their litterature is geared towards war, even how the way their hands are shaped make them natural ruthless mercenaries! So as we say: "Everything changed, yet everything is the same".

*Now* it doesn't mean there aren't reasons for such ambient negativity towards Islam. There are demographic and economical issues creating important population migrations from Maghreb to Western and Southern Europe. There are strong cultural differences between Maghreb and Middle-East civilizations and those of "The North", often resulting in misunderstandings and clashes. There is currently a problem of islamism (the muslim extremists) and theocratic regimes rising, creating a perceived association between the religious movement and terrorism.

What I think is that instead of pointing fingers at muslims, more people should ask if themselves are not part of the problem. Has the diplomatic involvement of the Western Powers in the Middle-East contributed to strenghtening islamic theocracies? Definitely. Is there an economical, a political interest to keep those countries in such a state? Of course. Is integration hampered by a negative preconception? Hardly questionable.

I believe that we should try to keep our minds open, and not jump to easy generalizations towards other cultures or religions; just because people think or live in ways we do not understand doesn't make them fundamentally evil or terrorists. We should keep in mind how the Western Civilization spent centuries burning heretics, hunting people of a different skin color like beasts, or destroyed entire cultures for pure economical exploitation before starting to give them a lecture on proper behavior.

(oh, and no, I'm not muslim, I'm agnostic :))

[Asylum]

i'm sick of people saying Islam or Muslims and automatically thinking terrorists! 9/11 was created by terrorists, yes they were Muslims... but their beleif contradictd Islam . I can put it in context with Charles Manson who was Christian, yet contradicted the Christian faith through his actions, not to mention the religious sex cult years back where this man claimed to be Jesus and had sexual intercourse with every woman where he lived (this took place in America ithink 2 years ago.) . it is a shameful sterotype a religion based on a few people's actios.. There are great Muslims out there ones who are caring, loving, people. I hate people who descriminate when thye are so ignorant thatthey do not know the Islam belief. it makes me sad how cruel people are and how judgmental they are :(.

for 9/11 sorry i went ona rant and forgot what i was saying. Muslims want to build a Mosque near ground zero, why not let them? i don't see a problem with it. it wasn't Muslim's but terrorists who caused 9/11. some people thnk Muslims will think they have "won" or make a mockery by putting a mosque there, but i odn't see that. they want to praise God... t's like puttng a church in Europe, well... that's where the crusades were sooo.. that would just be completely awful!!! O_o i'm sorry but i just cna't stand the stupid sterotypes... i know i explained this badly, i hope someone gets my point...

[Magus]

I hate people who descriminate when thye are so ignorant thatthey do not know the Islam belief. it makes me sad how cruel people are and how judgmental they are :(.

What really disturbs me is that some people think they know Islam, quoting Hadith and quran.

I made this thread and gave out those link for that same specific thing.
I want to see how VT feels about Islam.

Guys 'n' girls - I am not going to kill you.

Just talk whatever bothers you about Islam and what not. Things you don't like about in Islam - rumors, misconceptions, myths about Islam.

(seriously, this is first forum whose residents are quiet about Islam and the Muslims).

Just look at this page; ignore the video. Just look at the comments:
Click me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpdCfbSsNzQ)

Is it me, or IloveUSA1941 is just trolling?

[steve1234]

Like ANY religion, there are extremists in the Islam religion. What concerns me is that there seems to be a worryingly large number of extremists in Islam. Of course, it is exagerated in the media, but its something that needs to be sorted out. There are also a large number of muslims who are good people!

I am also concerned about the number of Muslims in the UK, who have an incredible hatrid for non-Muslims. It makes people angry, meaning a rise in racism, and a rise in racist political parties, which many people vote for. The extremists who preach hate are also ruining the lives for good Muslims, as the extremist idiots are giving the Muslim religion a bad name. Many of the extremists want the UK to have Islam as the main religion, and ban anything non-Muslim. This sort of thing stirs up hatrid and panic, and its no wonder so many people dislike the Muslim religion.
I have no problem with different races, religions and cultures being in the UK, as long as they respect the UK laws and have respect for all the other religions and races in the UK.

I have no respect whatsoever for EXTREMIST muslims (or any religious extremists). I don't care about these losers. They just stir up hate, and ruin the reputation for other good members of their religions.

There has always been tensions between religions, races and cultures, and unfortunatly its certainly not going to change anytime soon.

[Azunite]

Muslims hate Christians because Christians hate Muslims.
Remember the days when Christians hated Muslims while Sultan Saladin treate their prisoners with ice

[Continuum]

Muslims hate Christians because Christians hate Muslims.
Remember the days when Christians hated Muslims while Sultan Saladin treate their prisoners with ice

Its not that Muslims hate Christians. in fact, during the crusades, when King Richard the Lionheart became bedridden in all of the fighting, he sent out emissaries to him, bringing fruits and wishing him a quick recovery and a fair fight. I can't see why Christians hate them so much. I don't know why, but my father becomes paranoid around Muslims. We're dominantly Christian and still it's discriminating to see Muslims being shunned because of their faith.

And, I watch History Channel all the time :D

[Azunite]

"it's discriminating to see muslims being shunned because of their faith"
You are writing like Christianity is a main religion and Islam is made up

[darkwoon]

Muslims hate Christians because Christians hate Muslims.
Remember the days when Christians hated Muslims while Sultan Saladin treate their prisoners with ice
Over-generalization. Not all Christians hate Muslims by far (fortunately!). And not all Muslims hate Christians by far (again, fortunately!). Most of the hatred is actually not because of the religion but because of the culture. Most people don't hate Muslims because they are Muslims, but because they are Algerians/Irakians/Afghans/etc. Calling against the religion is actually a way to hate foreigners on another critera than race, thus avoiding being called a racist.

As a side note, there were cruel acts of war during the Crusades on both sides - Saladin was indeed generally described as showing respect to its enemies, but it didn't prevent him to slaughter them whenever he felt it was necessary; he was also a skilled politician that understood pretty well the value of being seen as the defender of civilized behavior against the barbaric invaders.

[Perseus]

"it's discriminating to see muslims being shunned because of their faith"
You are writing like Christianity is a main religion and Islam is made up

No, he's not. How you see this I don't know. I'm starting to think you're paranoid that all Christians hate Muslims and that Muslims are superior in every way, shape, and form.

[Magus]

Oh. Just when we were talking about how intolerant and bias people are. There goes a pastor that made the Burn a Koran Day - on 9/11.

Click me[VT] (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=82921)

Also, 9/11 is the first day of Eid this year. - Some say it will be on 9/10

Saddam Hussein also was killed on the first day of Eid a few years back.