Prop 19? Will Marijuana finally be legalized?

[danielf123]

Some of you may or may not now about Prop 19 in california

its the prop to legalize marijuana in california
as in totally legalize it lol Same rules as alcohol
1. Gotta be 21 to get it
2. If you knowingly sell to a minor, you loose your cannabis liscence and get thrown in jail
3. if you sell to someone over 18 but under 21, you get a fine and jail time
4. you can posses up to an ounce
5. you may grow plants in a space no bigger then 25 square feet on your property
6. cant smoke near schools, on buses, around minors, etc...
7. cant drive while high
8. consumption must be done in a private residence or designated marijuana smoking area (im guessing like a coffeshop or store or something)

thats some of the things i remember about it
not all, but some haha

they plan to legalize and tax the fuck out of it, regulate it, and yeah, federally it will still be illegal, so the DEA can still bust your ass, but they only account for like less than 1% of all cannabis related arrests in this state, arrests are mostly made by local police forces or state forces
so far poll studys show that as of this moment. 47% of voters are voting yes, 43% no, and 10% undecided menaing that there might acutally be a good chance of this passing

Do you think it will pass and marijuana will be legal in California? If it does, do you think this will open the door and set in motion the legalization all over the country?

[brennaluvv]

I don't think it'll be legal because if they do legalize it, won't they just have a bigger problem with buzzed drivers? I think that's ridiculous, marijuana should be illegal and that's that.

[danielf123]

I don't think it'll be legal because if they do legalize it, won't they just have a bigger problem with buzzed drivers? I think that's ridiculous, marijuana should be illegal and that's that.

yeah, but people under the influence of marijuana usually drive really slow, not fast and all over the place, people high drive slow because theydont wanna get caught lol

why do you think it should be illegal?

[wtblife]

yeah, but people under the influence of marijuana usually drive really slow, not fast and all over the place, people high drive slow because theydont wanna get caught lol

Careful, it sounds like you're attempting to justify driving while intoxicated... Personally weed is usually more intoxicating than alcohol, but driving on either is a terrible idea.

[Sage]

Careful, it sounds like you're attempting to justify driving while intoxicated...

No it doesn't. I hope this passes. History shows that making things people want illegal never does much good.

[wtblife]

Apparently I needed the "to me" in there since it wasn't obvious...

[staying_alive]

Things wrong with this:

1) No easy way to field-test for high drivers. Lots of intoxicated drivers since everyone thinks getting high and driving is less dangerous than getting drunk and driving. In reality, marijuana makes your thought process slow down more than alcohol and has a much more profound effect on your ability to handle difficult situations competently.

2) California probably thinks this will help their economy. Huge taxes on marijuana right? Wait until production of almost EVERYTHING decreases because adults are high all the time.

3) America has no self control. PERIOD. This is going to get out of control fast in California.

4) The laws against marijuana don't keep it from the public's hands. That's pretty obvious. Rather, they keep it from affecting our entire nation's production values. Simply put, people can't afford to be stupid with weed because it's illegal.

Argue these points if you want, but you can't deny their logical truth. People are simply irresponsible. I hope this does not pass in California.

[Paladino]

I hope this passes then maybe the British government will get their finger out and realize its not bad for you.

[CaptainObvious]

1) No easy way to field-test for high drivers. Lots of intoxicated drivers since everyone thinks getting high and driving is less dangerous than getting drunk and driving. In reality, marijuana makes your thought process slow down more than alcohol and has a much more profound effect on your ability to handle difficult situations competently.

Every study ever done on the subject shows that marijuana impairs driving much less than alcohol. Is it safe to drive while impaired by marijuana? It will never be as safe as driving sober. However, that does not mean it is always unsafe. I know many people who I would trust less driving sober than I trust some of my friends driving impaired. Safety depends not just upon whether one is impaired, but upon how skilled one was in the first place, and what that impairment constitutes.

2) California probably thinks this will help their economy. Huge taxes on marijuana right? Wait until production of almost EVERYTHING decreases because adults are high all the time.

There is no evidence that this will occur.

3) America has no self control. PERIOD. This is going to get out of control fast in California.

4) The laws against marijuana don't keep it from the public's hands. That's pretty obvious. Rather, they keep it from affecting our entire nation's production values. Simply put, people can't afford to be stupid with weed because it's illegal.

Argue these points if you want, but you can't deny their logical truth. People are simply irresponsible. I hope this does not pass in California.

I can argue those points because they are not logical. If marijuana is already in the public's hands, how will legalizing it destroy productivity? No, you make little logical sense.

[wtblife]

Every study ever done on the subject shows that marijuana impairs driving much less than alcohol. Is it safe to drive while impaired by marijuana?

I've heard stuff like this, but it confuses me. How exactly are the doses compared? I can't think of any way their studies were of much importance because you can't exactly convert the doses or anything. I just really don't think you can accurately compare drugs unless you're talking about certain effects at certain doses.

I know a light toke won't affect my driving much at all, but neither will an alcohol buzz or even a decent amount of alcohol for me, my anxiety doesn't go down much with alcohol and my tolerance just seems higher than the average person so I find myself just as careful until the point where the delay in reaction really matters (which I would never be driving then, it takes a lot for this to happen). After smoking an average amount of weed for me I am way way more dangerous when behind the wheel because it fucks with me so much. It might just be genetics and what not, my brother also experiences the same issue as I do on weed where trying to drive you go around a turn like three times and you don't know where you're actually at.

The effects of weed person to person vary a lot more than alcohol imo (not just tolerance or w/e, but rather the actual effects) so it just sounds dangerous to me to say stuff like that, idk. I trust most of my friends driving high on weed more than I trust myself on weed, but sober I trust myself more than any of them. I trust my brother to drive no matter how fucked up he is and that's a terrible decision, but he just seems confident and I never notice anything wrong with his driving. He used to do 360s and all sorts of crap in our neighborhood drifting all over while tripping on DXM and having someone do that sober is scary even, but idk what it is about him. I trust him for some reason out of sheer stupidity. I know I'm a hypocritical fool so please try not to get annoyed by any of this.

[staying_alive]

Every study ever done on the subject shows that marijuana impairs driving much less than alcohol. Is it safe to drive while impaired by marijuana? It will never be as safe as driving sober. However, that does not mean it is always unsafe. I know many people who I would trust less driving sober than I trust some of my friends driving impaired. Safety depends not just upon whether one is impaired, but upon how skilled one was in the first place, and what that impairment constitutes.

Laws are not made on a person-by-person basis. Can I drive better while high than most of my sober friends? Most definitely. The law isn't made for me. It's made for already poor drivers who would end up driving high if it was easily attainable. Also, your example makes no sense because you did not say that the bad sober drivers would be trusted more if they were high.


There is no evidence that this will occur.

There was no evidence that America would have one of the highest obesity rates of any country when McDonald's came on the scene. Let's look at the characteristics of fast food: Legal; Easily attainable; Cheap; Tastes good (to most). Now let's look at the characteristics of legal marijuana: Legal; Easily attainable; Attractive pricing (It's a business like any other); Relieves stress; Lowers the rate at which the mind processes things.

Now you can honestly tell me with a straight face that an easily-influenced population like ours won't find this an attractive proposition? Kind of like credit in the 20s - it's great until you realize that you're reliant on it. From a government perspective, since they DO NOT look at individuals but rather at population, it should be obvious that it would impact business and production from high level businesspeople to the lowest-level field workers.


I can argue those points because they are not logical. If marijuana is already in the public's hands, how will legalizing it destroy productivity? No, you make little logical sense.

I think you are not realizing the effects of making it LEGAL. Just because it's in the public's hands does NOT mean legalizing it won't change anything. More people will be high and we'll have a situation on our hands that apparently no one can see. Look at America's history and tell me an attractive drug like marijuana would work out in our government's favor.

[The Batman]

I really don't see why it should be legal outside of medical purposes.

[staying_alive]

I really don't see why it should be legal outside of medical purposes.

I completely agree.

[CaptainObvious]

Laws are not made on a person-by-person basis. Can I drive better while high than most of my sober friends? Most definitely. The law isn't made for me. It's made for already poor drivers who would end up driving high if it was easily attainable. Also, your example makes no sense because you did not say that the bad sober drivers would be trusted more if they were high.

I don't think you quite understood what I was saying. I agree completely: people should not drive impaired if possible, and especially not if they're bad drivers in the first place. However, it is simply incorrect to pretend that there are no people capable of a safe level of driving skill while impaired.

That said, that discussion is neither here nor there. Making marijuana illegal doesn't fix the problem that you can't field test for marijuana because no test exists. You have to argue that it is a simple matter of numbers, but that's not something that you can just say: show me some numbers that indicates marijuana driving impairment increases in countries that legalize/decriminalize marijuana and you might have a start.

There was no evidence that America would have one of the highest obesity rates of any country when McDonald's came on the scene. Let's look at the characteristics of fast food: Legal; Easily attainable; Cheap; Tastes good (to most). Now let's look at the characteristics of legal marijuana: Legal; Easily attainable; Attractive pricing (It's a business like any other); Relieves stress; Lowers the rate at which the mind processes things.

Now you can honestly tell me with a straight face that an easily-influenced population like ours won't find this an attractive proposition? Kind of like credit in the 20s - it's great until you realize that you're reliant on it. From a government perspective, since they DO NOT look at individuals but rather at population, it should be obvious that it would impact business and production from high level businesspeople to the lowest-level field workers.

Reliance upon marijuana is one of the most innocuous addictions in the world. Yeah, I'm not a fan of the fact that it could reduce society's productivity, but that is each person's individual choice. Just like video games or television, if someone wants to muck about wasting their life on some useless pursuit I believe that should be their prerogative (subject to qualifications like they have to be legal adults, etc).

Plus, it's not necessary that marijuana must be abused. I know it certainly will be some/many people, but its use can be part of an extremely productive life. The number of extremely productive businessmen I know who smoke...

I'm quite for person liberty on issues like this. It's each person's own decision.

I think you are not realizing the effects of making it LEGAL. Just because it's in the public's hands does NOT mean legalizing it won't change anything. More people will be high and we'll have a situation on our hands that apparently no one can see. Look at America's history and tell me an attractive drug like marijuana would work out in our government's favor.

There's a foundational problem with your argument that I haven't even pointed out yet: empirical evidence doesn't support the conclusion that legality increases use. In the countries that have legalized/decriminalized the drug, use has remained relatively constant or even declined. It takes more than legality to make something prevalent: the culture also needs to support it. Americans love food, and historically love drinking (tension with the various teetotaling groups here, though); they do not love marijuana. American society taking it up in large numbers will take a long time, if it even happens at all.

I really don't see why it should be legal outside of medical purposes.

But that's the beauty of it: you can make that decision for yourself, but shouldn't make that decision for others. Legal adults should be able to choose for themselves.

[danielf123]

the reason for this being a ery real possibility now is because of the state is in desperate need of money and legalizing, taxing, and regulating will do just that
from what i herd last year when i first herd of this is that the tax will be something like $50 sales tax per ounce so your paying whatever is charged for the ounce plus another $50. Only liscenced places will be able to sell it (think of it like a liquor store but with marijuana instead)
The fact is, people will drive imparied if its legal or not. Lots of people drive while high now, lots do it while drunk

if we look at the netherlands where it is illegal yet no one gives a fuck, in the coffeshops all over, less people move on to hard drugs in the netherlands because theres an outlet for them in place. Think of it.
there will be txing which makes revenue for the state
people wont be imprisoned for simple possesion anymore, most cannabis related arressts are made for simple possesion, which means many many many less people in prison which lowers prison costs adding even more money to the state and clearing up space in prisons for people who should actually go
theres more prisons then schools in this country and many prisoners are there for simple possesion of cannabis

starting with california is a stepping stone
i bet you didnt know this but on average, pot smokers make more money in there jobs then non-smokers

pot doesnt make you lazy, it makes it easier to be lazy
Many people have become very succesful and smoke weed man
Tommy Chong - comedian, actor, writer, director
Richard Anthony "Cheech" Marin - comedian, actor, writer
The Beatles
The Doors
Jimmy Hendrix
(pretty much every rockstar to be honest)
(many many rappers)
Ted Turner (smokes a joint a day and created CNN)
Steve Jobs ( created apple, came up with idea under influence of LSD, but also smoekd pot)

smoking weed doesnt mean you cant be succesfull at all sir
lazy people are gonna be lazy anyways, dont blame the weed
remember a man named Micheal Phelps? didnt he smoke weed and win 5 gold medals?

on the imparied driving, most car accidents that involve someone being imparied is because they were under the influence of alcohol
more people die from alcohol related deaths then all illegal drugs combined every year
i dont see anyone lobbying to make it illegal and why is that?we tried that once and it failed. So why dont people notice its the same with cannabis? Prohibition doesnt work for shit, pot heads dont give a fuck weather its leagal or not, there still gonna smoke it, drunks dont care that its illegal to drive drunk, there still gonna do it

you cant fucking blame every single pot smoker for 1 persons fuck ups
its like syaing just cuz 1 person crashes his car because he's drunk, means everyone that drives drunk will crash

[staying_alive]

the reason for this being a ery real possibility now is because of the state is in desperate need of money and legalizing, taxing, and regulating will do just that
from what i herd last year when i first herd of this is that the tax will be something like $50 sales tax per ounce so your paying whatever is charged for the ounce plus another $50. Only liscenced places will be able to sell it (think of it like a liquor store but with marijuana instead)
The fact is, people will drive imparied if its legal or not. Lots of people drive while high now, lots do it while drunk

if we look at the netherlands where it is illegal yet no one gives a fuck, in the coffeshops all over, less people move on to hard drugs in the netherlands because theres an outlet for them in place. Think of it.
there will be txing which makes revenue for the state
people wont be imprisoned for simple possesion anymore, most cannabis related arressts are made for simple possesion, which means many many many less people in prison which lowers prison costs adding even more money to the state and clearing up space in prisons for people who should actually go
theres more prisons then schools in this country and many prisoners are there for simple possesion of cannabis

starting with california is a stepping stone
i bet you didnt know this but on average, pot smokers make more money in there jobs then non-smokers

pot doesnt make you lazy, it makes it easier to be lazy
Many people have become very succesful and smoke weed man
Tommy Chong - comedian, actor, writer, director
Richard Anthony "Cheech" Marin - comedian, actor, writer
The Beatles
The Doors
Jimmy Hendrix
(pretty much every rockstar to be honest)
(many many rappers)
Ted Turner (smokes a joint a day and created CNN)
Steve Jobs ( created apple, came up with idea under influence of LSD, but also smoekd pot)

smoking weed doesnt mean you cant be succesfull at all sir
lazy people are gonna be lazy anyways, dont blame the weed
remember a man named Micheal Phelps? didnt he smoke weed and win 5 gold medals?

on the imparied driving, most car accidents that involve someone being imparied is because they were under the influence of alcohol
more people die from alcohol related deaths then all illegal drugs combined every year
i dont see anyone lobbying to make it illegal and why is that?we tried that once and it failed. So why dont people notice its the same with cannabis? Prohibition doesnt work for shit, pot heads dont give a fuck weather its leagal or not, there still gonna smoke it, drunks dont care that its illegal to drive drunk, there still gonna do it

you cant fucking blame every single pot smoker for 1 persons fuck ups
its like syaing just cuz 1 person crashes his car because he's drunk, means everyone that drives drunk will crash

i won't identify each individual claim, but do you have sources for anything in your above post?

Michael Phelps had a picture taken of him hitting a bong. ONE time. Unless i'm mistaken, and he's been outed for smoking weed before he won five golds, you have no point.

Also prohibition is nothing like this. That was taking away something that was already widely accepted as legal in society and was also legal in surrounding countries (therefore easily attainable). So let's stop comparing the two.

As for your last comment, let's not get into drunk driving. The statistic you're trying to prove is FAR outweighed by actual tested statistics on impaired driving.

[danielf123]

i won't identify each individual claim, but do you have sources for anything in your above post?

Michael Phelps had a picture taken of him hitting a bong. ONE time. Unless i'm mistaken, and he's been outed for smoking weed before he won five golds, you have no point.

Also prohibition is nothing like this. That was taking away something that was already widely accepted as legal in society and was also legal in surrounding countries (therefore easily attainable). So let's stop comparing the two.

As for your last comment, let's not get into drunk driving. The statistic you're trying to prove is FAR outweighed by actual tested statistics on impaired driving.


the point in the micheal phelps one is people saying smoking WILL MAKE YOU lazy and uselss, its just a point saying that isnt true which is why i also gave other examples

and if you didnt know this, Marijuana is pretty much socially accepted now, although quietly because it is still illegal, but u could pretty much walk down the street smoking a joint and no one would really care

and imparied driving, it doesnt really matter what you take, you shouldnt do it period. It doesnt matter if its weed or alcohol, it fucks up your driving

my sources include many f'n books whose names i cant remember (ive read too many on the subject to remember there names) and documentarys likes Marijuna Inc: Inside the pot buissness (or something like that name) and The Union. Plus many hours of research on the internet

and prohabition is exactly like this. Marijuana was once legal and socially accepted, its government propaganda that made it unaccepted for a while. They did the same thing with alcohol, calling it the devils brew and etc. thats why it was made illegal

the fact is no matter what you say or cite, Marijuana is better then alcohol because it doenst carry nearly as many risks as alcohol does, there are no deaths attributed to Marijuana directly, while there are many with alcohol.

[danielf123]

I think you are not realizing the effects of making it LEGAL. Just because it's in the public's hands does NOT mean legalizing it won't change anything. More people will be high and we'll have a situation on our hands that apparently no one can see. Look at America's history and tell me an attractive drug like marijuana would work out in our government's favor.


you dont seem to realize the effects of it being illegal

it being illegal is what drives the crime related to it
its a fucking plant for christs sake
why are we able to be given dangerous painkillers that are very addictive but not a harmless plant?

It being illegal is the reason theres crime attatched, its why we have dealers and drug cartels moving it, cartels which are violent, we are taking prison space for simple marijuana possesion.

So what if its legal and people light up, Alcohol is legal and is much more dangerous than Marijuana. I like how Tommy Chong put it "Marijuana is the friendliest drug you will ever come across because once you hit it, your first impulse is to pass it to someone"

Alcohol makes people violent and stupid, marijuana has been shown, if anything, to make people pacafists while under the influence.

You cant compare the 2. Alcohol is much more dangerous then Marijuana
And what about ciggerates? there even worse and completely legal!!!
They cause the most deaths annually then any other drug in the world, but why is it legal? Because Alcohol and Tabacco companys have enough money to pay off politicians

What about the fact that the government proved its pretty much harmless but Nixon ordered those files destroyed becuase he had a "war on drugs"?

The fact is Prohabition simply doesnt work. It never has. How can we, America, be a FREE country and yet we are told what we are allowed to put in our bodies? That sir, is not freedom. Marijuana is a plant, a simple plant, its nature, and how dare we, the human race, say to nature that it is not allowed to exsist? How arrogant are we that we actually deny nature itself? And how hypocritical are we that we say we want to preserve nature yet we decide things like Peyote, Psilocybin Mushrooms, and Marijuana should be destroyed?

the fact is, maybe marijuana wont be legal yet, but one day it will be.
and even if it isnt, there will always be the ones who smoke it regardless of legal status.
We have created an unfair and biased nation in which a few people have influenced the majority with lies and deception. How can we trust our own government when over the years, it has lied to us time and time again?

Belive it or not sir, but revolution will be upon this nation soon, and if revolution does not take place, i gureentee we will fall very soon. Corruption and greed in the government has over run honesty and honor in the US government.

Legalizing marijuana is a step forward in acceptence. Why are alcoholics more accepted then stoners, yet alcoholics cause more problems to society?

You show me one case where someone smoked to much pot and came home and beat his wife and kids like some alcohlics do.