Ban the terms 'noob', 'n00b' etc

[nick]

Some people seem to love to talk down on other members just because they are new to VT. Cant help feeling this must give a bad impression to visitors and to new members. Surely everyone should accept that being new to the site doesnt make someone open to criticism and abuse. Maybe its time to add a rule forbidding the use of the terms "noob", "n00b" and in my opinion (different case I know) "p101er" from use in any threads, chat and the shoutbox.

[deadpie]

I've seen senior mods use the term. There can't be anything that bad with it.

[nick]

I've seen senior mods use the term. There can't be anything that bad with it.
So have I, but I dont see that that in itself makes it right, surely it emphasises the extent to which new members are looked down on. I just dont see that its a good thing.

[deadpie]

So have I, but I dont see that that in itself makes it right, surely it emphasises the extent to which new members are looked down on. I just dont see that its a good thing.

If you've said it then why are you saying it's a bad term and people shouldn't say it? Isn't that a little hypocritical?

[nick]

If you've said it then why are you saying it's a bad term and people shouldn't say it? Isn't that a little hypocritical?
I dont see that. It would be hard to say "ban the term word" without actually mentioning the word.

[deadpie]

I dont see that. It would be hard to say "ban the term word" without actually mentioning the word.

Noob isn't harmful. Everyone is called it when they start out. It means their new. People can deal with it. And banning a word is OUTRAGEOUS. It's like me saying, "Nobody on VT can say shit anymore because shit offends me. You guys have to follow my opinion no matter what no matter you like it or not."

It's not that offensive. I'm pretty sure calling someone a noob is better and safer then telling someone they're dumb or stupid. And not all noobs are bad. Noobs can be smart. So all because they're new (A NOOB), they can be smart and this is not really offensive.

It's all in terms of words. And maybe you should ask some new users before going all judgmental on what the new users probably feel like.

[Ender]

I completely agree with nick here. Its supposed to be a place where people like each other and are friends and can turn to each other for help, not where you are picked on for being new.

[ShatteredWings]

I completely agree with nick here. Its supposed to be a place where people like each other and are friends and can turn to each other for help, not where you are picked on for being new.

They're not picked on when they're not being noobs.
it's content, rather than postcount IMO

[Cloud]

noob=New member
n00b=Silly person trying to say new member
P101er= A person who has mosts of their posts within the puberty 101 forums and very few anywhere else

Nicks suggestion=thought policing

[JimSauce]

At all forums I'm on, the word "newb" simply means a new person (not condescending or offensive in any way) and "noob" is a derogatory word meaning stupid/ignorant.

At this forum I don't see any offense in the word noob.

[Dorsum Oppel]

I was never picked on for being new because I made valid contributions to threads and wasn't a dumbass. Noob is not a date of joining or a post count. Noob is a mentality and post quality.

Also, it's a fucking word. If we begin to band fucking words, we'd be reaching a new level of ridiculous in internet censorship. If someones feeling are hurt over being called a noob for being stupid or making poorly thought out posts, they can get the fuck over it.

[Scarface]

Some people seem to love to talk down on other members just because they are new to VT.

Everyone was called it one time or another. It's not looking down to new members. It's just another term. Nor is it insulting.

Cant help feeling this must give a bad impression to visitors and to new members. Surely everyone should accept that being new to the site doesnt make someone open to criticism and abuse.

It doesn't give an impression nor is it name calling. Don't mean to be a dick or anything, but I just don't see the harm in it. n00b= new member. It happens on every forum I have visited and/or been on.

Maybe its time to add a rule forbidding the use of the terms "noob", "n00b" and in my opinion (different case I know) "p101er" from use in any threads, chat and the shoutbox.

Should we ban "fuck" and "shit" too because it shows vulgarity and may be offensive to others even though it may be a form of venting? It's just a term... It's nothing to make a big deal out of. It's not like they use it ALL the time in an abrasive manner. Hell I was called a n00b. It never bothered me.

[Obscene Eyedeas]

Tbh words only become derogatory when one gives them that meaning. The word n00b is not really that offensive they are just new people. It depends on the level of sensitivity of the user and the context of the post but then again if the context of the post is insulting the member then that will be dealt with as it is a separate issue. The word in itself is not really insulting and should not be taken in such a way. Some n00bs that i've met since i joined have been extremely intelligent but they are still n00bs being new to the site

[deadpie]

I was never picked on for being new because I made valid contributions to threads and wasn't a dumbass. Noob is not a date of joining or a post count. Noob is a mentality and post quality.


I have to agree on this. If someone is directly calling you a noob to offend you (which it shouldn't because it's such a weak word) it's probably because you don't spell that well, don't know the rules that well (most new people don't), and based on posts that are contrary to the topic and not spam.

Of course I have explained what the word noob means in the first couple replies, but Cloud's definition are pretty much perfect.

[nick]

I raised this because of the contents of the shoutbox tonight. Despite the answers above, and I understand some of the points, I believe this gives a very bad impression. Members who are fairly new themselves soon learn that its cool to be rude about even newer members. Doesnt seem a healthy thing to me.

[Obscene Eyedeas]

I raised this because of the contents of the shoutbox tonight. Despite the answers above, and I understand some of the points, I believe this gives a very bad impression. Members who are fairly new themselves soon learn that its cool to be rude about even newer members. Doesnt seem a healthy thing to me.

As i said if it is purposely used for insulting then that is a separate issue as anyone could just as easily say a different curse word to insult them, it's not the word that is the problem and from the context of this reply your problem isn't with one word but a general attitude in the forums. You can't control a general attitude as much as one would want to.

[deadpie]

I raised this because of the contents of the shoutbox tonight. Despite the answers above, and I understand some of the points, I believe this gives a very bad impression. Members who are fairly new themselves soon learn that its cool to be rude about even newer members. Doesnt seem a healthy thing to me.

Like we've said a billion times, someone called a noob isn't always meant to be rude. And it's not even that offensive. OH NO SOMEONE CALLED ME NEW WHAT DO I DO NOW? Like anyone's going to complain about being called new. At least I wouldn't think so.
It's not like your calling someone an idiot. And I do think you haven't read most of the replies above you because it seems like you're just saying the same thing again and again, but just in a different context of words.

[nick]

Like we've said a billion times, someone called a noob isn't always meant to be rude.
A billion times? Isnt always - which means is sometimes or even maybe is often. The term is used in a way that implies new=stupid=not worthy of attention. I struggle to think when it doesnt mean that. I just think its wrong.

it seems like you're just saying the same thing again and again, but just in a different context of words.
Likewise

[-Silence]

I raised this because of the contents of the shoutbox tonight. Despite the answers above, and I understand some of the points, I believe this gives a very bad impression. Members who are fairly new themselves soon learn that its cool to be rude about even newer members. Doesnt seem a healthy thing to me.

Is this what you are refering to?

[Today 04:10 PM] justalovestruckteen: Oh look a n00b, oh wait thats an ant (wow I'm so far off)
[Today 03:57 PM] TootsiePop: So many n00bs, so little time...
[Today 03:29 PM] [[chickaroo92]]: I'm multi tasking ^.^
[Today 03:29 PM] Mford199X: Full Metal Alchemist
[Today 03:26 PM] Mford199X: So many noobs
*TootsiePop sighs at n00bs*

If so, I think you are just being silly. No one was insulted and you a raising an issue? It's just a word. Too many rules is never a good thing. The first thing that came to my mind like Cloud had said - The Thought Police.

[Camazotz]

If anyone is offended by being called the term "noob," it's probably time to turn off the internet and interact with real people. The world isn't always a happy place. And a word like noob should have no effect at all on your emotions.

[CaptainObvious]

Let's ban words.

Or not.

(Nobody likes being talked down to. Banning words is not the solution.)

[deadpie]

A billion times? Isnt always - which means is sometimes or even maybe is often. The term is used in a way that implies new=stupid=not worthy of intention. I struggle to think when it doesnt mean that. I just think its wrong.


Likewise

Ok, I over exaggerated on a billion, but you get the point. If mods have to explain to you it's not offensive, then your statement isn't going to go far. The term implies nothing. I could go into the chat room and say, "Hey man, you're a noob, but you're pretty smart."

And which is worse? A word that might imply stupid and the word that implies it makes the person who says it sound like a dork OR someone actually say something straight up offensive?

Ex: He's A Noob and He's a dumbass. Which one do you think is worse? Which one do you think is going to offend the person most?

You know nick, not to be rude or offensive, but your complaints for the site really confuse me. You complain allot about the site but at the same time claim to love it. You've left many times, but say you have high hopes for the site. You just don't make much sense to me.

[Cloud]

A billion times? Isnt always - which means is sometimes or even maybe is often. The term is used in a way that implies new=stupid=not worthy of attention. I struggle to think when it doesnt mean that. I just think its wrong.


Likewise

As is gay- people use that as an insult
so should we ban that word too?

I call my mates all sorts of crap, like bastards wankers and bitches doesnt mean that theyre all bastard children, female dogs or chronic masturbaters.
Its just a laugh that i have with them
people can take words with a pinch of salt
i think its about time you learnt to do the same nick

[Dorsum Oppel]

When I was but a wee coyote and out playing with my friends, one of them called me short. I ran inside and cried to my mother, I was devastated. The words she gave me are the best advice that I've ever gotten.

"Get over it."

[nick]

You know nick, not to be rude or offensive, but your complaints for the site really confuse me. You complain allot about the site but at the same time claim to love it. You've left many times, but say you have high hopes for the site. You just don't make much sense to me.

Why are you trying to turn this against me? I'm not complaining about the site, just about one thing which I see. I still dont see that a shoutbox like that reflects well on the site and it happens all the time. That's my point, no more, no less. Its supposed to be constructive criticism.


people can take words with a pinch of salt
i think its about time you learnt to do the same nick
That makes no sense at all, its along time since I've been called a n00b. Many other things maybe, but not that.

[Obscene Eyedeas]

Nick i'm once again going to try to point out the obvious here. words become derogatory by their context if you mean to insult someone they'll figure it out whether you include ONE extra word or not.

noob equals new

I think this thread is simply making an issue of a non issue as even a noob has posted here telling you he's seen no use of that word in an insulting way here.

[Rainstorm]

Nicks suggestion=thought policing

Now, was this Really necessary? I see it as slightly bashing...

[deadpie]

Why are you trying to turn this against me? I'm not complaining about the site, just about one thing which I see. I still dont see that a shoutbox like that reflects well on the site and it happens all the time. That's my point, no more, no less. Its supposed to be constructive criticism.


I'm calling you out because nobody is willing to do it.

I do think you might be trolling in this whole thread. I mean, this has become so ridiculous. We've made points so much more superior then yours. Only one user has actually agreed with you.

You know what? Go find some new users and ask about ten of them if the word "noob" offends them. Come back and tell me how many say yes.

You're judging that new members are going to hate being called noobs when I'm sure none of them will give a shit. Now if they're called something like "asshole" or along that lines, it's going to be different.

I still feel bad for allot of people in this thread for their amazing posts being ignored.

[Scarface]

That makes no sense at all, its along time since I've been called a n00b. Many other things maybe, but not that.

What he means: Take the words with a grain of salt. MEANING Don't take things so seriously. This is an internet forum. Whether people want to use derogatory words things happen. Though when using the words in an insulting manner and/or using as bashing word then there should be consequences. Though using it in the correct way, such as silly way "You're such a n00b lol" it's not such a big deal. We're all new to the forum at one time or another, it's just a term. Why take something SO silly and exaggerate it like this. That's what doesn't make sense.

[Perseus]

Now, was this Really necessary? I see it as slightly bashing...

Uh..., no it's not. He's pointing out what his idea is. Go read 1984 and then report back, young lad. You'll see the point.

[Scarface]

Welcome to the Internet (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=80959)

This explains it all right here.

[nick]

I've just expressed an opinion. OK, so its a minority opinion maybe but that's no reason to attack me over it. It genuinely offends me to see shoutbox comments like that, I dont see its right to be rude to new members.

[deadpie]

I've just expressed an opinion. OK, so its a minority opinion maybe but that's no reason to attack me over it. It genuinely offends me to see shoutbox comments like that, I dont see its right to be rude to new members.

How does it offend YOU? And we're not attacking you, we're DEBATING your thoughts and opinions. That's what people do when they want to express their voice. Deal with it.

[Obscene Eyedeas]

The point everyone's making nick is that the only noob to post here said he hasn't seen it used offensively here and no noob has said they found it offensive

[nick]

I do think you might be trolling in this whole thread. I mean, this has become so ridiculous. We've made points so much more superior then yours.

And we're not attacking you
Seems more like attack than debate to me.

[-Silence]

Nick, no offense but you need to toughen up, you are way too sensitive.

[deadpie]

Seems more like attack than debate to me.

Stop playing the victim card. It's getting old nick.

[Obscene Eyedeas]

Seems more like attack than debate to me.

Nick everyone is allowed an opinion which they debate. tim was expressing his thoughts on your thread just as when you posted the thread you were expressing your thoughts on the word noob. i would appreciate if you would address more posts as you are ignoring many quality posts and points

[nick]

i would appreciate if you would address more posts as you are ignoring many quality posts and points
I've made my point, if no one else agrees fair enough, dont really have any more to add to it.

[deadpie]

I've made my point, if no one else agrees fair enough, dont really have any more to add to it.

Wow, that's so open minded to everyone's opinions.

[-Silence]

I think the horse is dead.

[DarkHorses]

At most of the forums I've been to noob isn't considered offensive. I never thought it was a derogatory word and didn't really mind if someone called me it. I didn't know it meant anything besides the fact that you're new?

[The Batman]

I had this idea like a few months ago, so I completely understand what you're saying but you can't ban terms like that. It's just damn near impossible to ban a term like that on the internet. It's not really that bad either and usually the only people meaning for it to insult are actually n00bs and all you have to do is remind them of that and they clam up.

[Obscene Eyedeas]

I've made my point, if no one else agrees fair enough, dont really have any more to add to it.

Nick you must know after being a member so long that when a suggestion is made it will be debated and the best solution found. it will not just be granted or dismissed. it will be debated and a debate revolves around the breakdown of your fellow debaters points which you are simply ignoring. you are picking and choosing who and what you reply to but in this debate in order for us to even consider your points you should consider ours blowing them off shows a lack of open mindedness and also is unfair to people who took the time to read and consider your post. a noob has yet again posted that this issue is really a non issue so if you wish for your point to be considered please do take the time to reply to the valid points everyone is making

[nick]

Sorry, thought this was suggestions, not ROTW.

[deadpie]

Sorry, thought this was suggestions, not ROTW.

Why do all of your suggestions have to be public and can never be taken to an admin personally?

I've sent suggestions to admins a few times to avoid situations like this.

What really bothers me is how you're only quoting mainly my posts and not any of these other fantastic posts that are ten times better then mine. That just completely blows me away.

[nick]

Why do all of your suggestions have to be public and can never be taken to an admin personally?

I've sent suggestions to admins a few times to avoid situations like this.
Isnt this what the Suggestions forum is for?

[Obscene Eyedeas]

Sorry, thought this was suggestions, not ROTW.

Nick im putting this bluntly take it however you want. suggest something and it will be debated whether you like that or not. being sarcastic because i'm being honest with you is just downright rude. if you don't like that you're point has been found to be invalid stop posting and making accusations and sarcastic remarks as it is off topic completely. you said a page ago you were done with this and yet you posted again to be sarcastic with the person who is being honest with you and explaining how things work

[Scarface]

Isnt this what the Suggestions forum is for? I'm critised for not responding to every answer but once again your answer is nothing to do with the subject, just a kind of personal attack on me. Why?

That wasn't his question. he asked why not respond to the other posts that have great responses. it makes no sense. Other people are voicing their opinion as well. This whole thing could have been avoided if you could have done what Tim said and mention it to an admin. You aren't being attacked. We're saying things how they are. You just seem to be completely ignoring everything everyone is saying and zooming in on one persons post because you don't like him. If you don't like his posts then look at all of the others.

EDIT: Unnecessary drama is unnecessary.

[deadpie]

Isnt this what the Suggestions forum is for?

Your still not reading all of what I've said. Your bothering mostly everyone's posts except mine and they've made amazing points better then mine. I think I've said this three times and you keep ignoring that. You just want to read certain parts from me you like. Go back to page one, read everyone else's posts too.

[nick]

Your still not reading all of what I've said. Your bothering mostly everyone's posts except mine and they've made amazing points better then mine. I think I've said this three times and you keep ignoring that. You just want to read certain parts from me you like. Go back to page one, read everyone else's posts too.
I have read everyone's answers. Nobody has said anything that counteracts my personal view which is that comments like that in the shoutbox look bad and unwelcoming to new members. I understand what other people have said but my view is still the same.

[Cloud]

generally nick
new members dont even know there is a shoutbox

[deadpie]

I'm done with this topic nick. Your ignorance is beyond paranormal.

[Scarface]

I have read everyone's answers. Nobody has said anything that counteracts my personal view which is that comments like that in the shoutbox look bad and unwelcoming to new members. I understand what other people have said but my view is still the same.

Not everyone is going to agree with what you have to say.

[Obscene Eyedeas]

Nick i'm sorry but what happens in the shout box does not look uninviting as noobs have posted themselves why don't you see that. why not reply to their posts and why not mine? the only reply i've gotten off you is a smart ass sarcastic remark about how suggestions work and i made some good points as many others Did. everything you've taken out of this thread is the negative when really you should take all or nothing as it is insulting to members when you ignore their points for simply no reason and debate points you believe are personal attacks.

[ShatteredWings]

Dude, it would have been so much easier to just take a screenshot of the material you found to be insulting and PM it to a gmod or admin.

[Sugaree]

Alright then, so if we're going to ban the word 'noob', let's be safe and ban:

Asshole
Ass
Dick
Pussy
Balls
Nuts
Clit
Cum
Jizz
Boobs
Shit
Piss
Fuck
Cunt
Cocksucker
Motherfucker
Tits

And we should just add anything else that offends us. This is thought policing. Your point is completely off center. It's a word, nothing more and nothing less. And let me ask a question involving LOGIC: Are you to sole representative of all the new members on the site? Because most don't even know there's a shoutbox, let alone a chat room. Unless some of the new members take offense, then why worry?

[nick]

Not everyone is going to agree with what you have to say.
That was accepted and implicit in the very post that you quoted. I know that and why should they?

Dude, it would have been so much easier to just take a screenshot of the material you found to be insulting and PM it to a gmod or admin.
Mhm, but its not just a one off, its a trend and it pervades throughout the whole site.

Alright then, so if we're going to ban the word 'noob', let's be safe and ban:

.....
And we should just add anything else that offends us. This is thought policing. Your point is completely off center. It's a word, nothing more and nothing less.

Like I've said, and earlier in the thread too I think, its not so much about the word as that a subcommunity is singled out as being somehow lesser citizens. Well, if as some people have suggested, they dont see it that way themselves and its just me, then fair enough, silly me. But to me its like the big kids in the school picking on the first years and I just dont like it.


And let me ask a question involving LOGIC: Are you to sole representative of all the new members on the site?
No, at no point have I claimed to be that.

[Sugaree]

No, at no point have I claimed to be that.

Then why are you so concerned about a new member being called a noob? It's common for a new member to a community, internet or real world, to be called something along these lines. You were called a noob once too, I was called it, hell everyone was called a noob. That doesn't make them any less a member. And so what if it seems to be dividing them? It's like hazing and when you can prove to the community you are no longer a noob, we won't call you a noob anymore.

[Obscene Eyedeas]

Nick you've just basically proven your inability to debate and take into consideration ALL viewpoints by once again ignoring that which doesn't suit you to reply to. tbh until you can put up both hands and say i have addressed all points then your point is invalid as you're repeating your point over and over in different contexts which people have already shown you is flawed in every dynamic. it is downright rude to everyone who made a good point to be completely ignored.

+rep for anyone who raised a good point as you deserve recognition. this may take a few days with rep restrictions

[Scarface]

That was accepted and implicit in the very post that you quoted. I know that and why should they?

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to imply here. You just don't seem to grasp the point that everyone is trying to make to you that not everyone will agree with what you have to say.




Like I've said, and earlier in the thread too I think, its not so much about the word as that a subcommunity is singled out as being somehow lesser citizens.

No one is being singled out. The content of someones post means more than status. Whether they're new or not, it's a word. No one really cares about it.

Well, if as some people have suggested, they dont see it that way themselves and its just me, then fair enough, silly me.

Then why continue to make smart ass comments and continue with this thread. Not everyone is going to like your suggestions.

But to me its like the big kids in the school picking on the first years and I just dont like it.

Why? You're in no way even close... The term n00b doesn't even apply to you. Why get so defensive?

[Cloud]

Nick you've just basically proven your inability to debate and take into consideration ALL viewpoints by once again ignoring that which doesn't suit you to reply to. tbh until you can put up both hands and say i have addressed all points then your point is invalid as you're repeating your point over and over in different contexts which people have already shown you is flawed in every dynamic. it is downright rude to everyone who made a good point to be completely ignored.

+rep for anyone who raised a good point as you deserve recognition. this may take a few days with rep restrictions

Repeating the same point is never a good way to bring people to your side of view
as is going for you.
now im sure nicks had enough of a heckling over this tonight so how about we leave him to answer matts post, and then let the thread die
we all know the suggestion wont happen theres been enough opposition to prove that so why prolong the thread

[nick]

it is downright rude to everyone who made a good point to be completely ignored.
I missed your replies to Trae and Tom.

You just don't seem to grasp the point that everyone is trying to make to you that not everyone will agree with what you have to say.

Really? That's not right, its you that dont seem to grasp the point that I know not everyone agrees and why the fuck would I expect that?


now im sure nicks had enough of a heckling over this tonight so how about we leave him to answer matts post, and then let the thread die
we all know the suggestion wont happen theres been enough opposition to prove that so why prolong the thread
Well that's true and its 2:52am here so no more from me tonight.

[Bougainvillea]

Nick if you look down at the related threads box, there are threads titled "Hi n00b here" in the introductions forum.

It's obviously not a bother if they THEMSELVES acknowledge their n00bhood.

It may appear to be belittling them, but it's the same as calling a new police officer a rookie. We're obviously a tight knit community. And I'm sure new members who attempt to become apart of it can see that. And they are accepted as responsible, mature members. Just like me, you, and the rest of us.

They only people who see it as offensive are people who are causing mischief, or stick to the puberty forums. And they generally leave after answers have been provided to their queries.

Just let it go, man.

[Tiberius]

I have read everyone's answers. Nobody has said anything that counteracts my personal view which is that comments like that in the shoutbox look bad and unwelcoming to new members. I understand what other people have said but my view is still the same.

If it is so unwelcoming to new members, then explain to me why this site keeps growing at a ridiculous rate, oh wise one.



Really? That's not right, its you that dont seem to grasp the point that I know not everyone agrees and why the fuck would I expect that?

By the way, Nick, I find that statement to be rude and harmful to site moral. I'd like statements like that to be banned and I'd also like the work "fuck" to be banned.

[Gumleaf]

the term 'n00b' and the alternate versions of that term is a universal online term for being new in a place, especially online forums. i've been refered to as a n00b before and have refered to myself as one in certain contexts since i have been here. in nearly 3 years on vt staff have i ever received a complaint regarding the term n00b. i've observed a number of new members refer to themselves as a n00b and even some have used it as their intro thread title. in my opinion banning this would be over sensitive. i see where you are coming from nick, but i on't support this idea.

[AllThatIsLeft]

Now, was this Really necessary? I see it as slightly bashing...
Did you read the post? This is really a false accusation.

I've just expressed an opinion. OK, so its a minority opinion maybe but that's no reason to attack me over it. It genuinely offends me to see shoutbox comments like that, I dont see its right to be rude to new members.

Words are only words, you give them the meaning.

It seems to me that you think of this word as derogatory, but you personally find it offensive.

Everyone, EVERYONE is a noob at some point. Which that means being new, and not knowing how the "system" works. It's a mental state which we all go through, until we figure how the internet - a place that has no relevance to real life, by the way - works.

To ban a word is just seriously going over the edge, like said many times before, we are not the internet police. and the internet is not SRS BSNS

I'm sorry Nick but you need to toughen up, not take everything as a personal attack, and realize the internet is not a friendly place, made of flowers and rainbows.

It has its good, and its bads. The only way to survive in it, it's to just deal with it.


You made a valid suggestion, but that suggestion doesn't have to be approved because one member out of many doesn't like it.

[Aspiringanonymous]

:locked: upon OP request