Do soldiers fight for freedoms and the rights of the people in every war?

[ShyGuyInChicago]

What is your opinion?

[Sage]

Soldiers follow orders. Nothing more. If you disagree with a war, blame the politicians.

[Cloud]

Some patriotic ones who can get a job that is not in the military might

But chances are the rest are just to bloody lazy or stupid to gget a job elsewhere and end up joining the army since they think its easy and other such bollocks so they do it for the cash

[Amnesiac]

Soldiers follow orders. Nothing more. If you disagree with a war, blame the politicians.

Exactly. It's their job, no more. It's like asking "do soda bottlers go out of their way to advertise their soda?" No, they just do work and get paid. Being a soldier is still a job, being employed in the military is something most people do for money and benefits, not necessarily because they fight for our freedoms or agree with everything the government says.

[Azunite]

A coutnry shouldn't bend over another country and conquer it with an excuse "We brought democracy / We stopped the rebellion "
Countries must only make defence.
Check Türkiye for example, We only have Ministry of Defence but no Ministry of Offensse

[Sith Lord 13]

A coutnry shouldn't bend over another country and conquer it with an excuse "We brought democracy / We stopped the rebellion "
Countries must only make defence.
Check Türkiye for example, We only have Ministry of Defence but no Ministry of Offensse

In America it's the same. We have the Department of Defense (DOD), but no Department of Offense either.

[Sage]

Check Türkiye for example, We only have Ministry of Defence but no Ministry of Offensse

Ministry of Offense? Now that's just silly.

[Azunite]

I mean't like Ministry of War, where tactics about attacking a country or invading a country is discussed.
Sith Lord America must have something like that, it owns half of middle east.

[DarkHorses]

I think it's the reason they join the war, but the reason they fight isn't up to them, it's up to the politicians and the reasons behind the war. Soldiers are controlled by the government, the reasons why they fight are not up to them.

[[[chickaroo92]]]

Some soldiers do indeed fight for the freedom of their fellow citizens.
And sadly, some just fight for the sake of being blood thirsty animals.

[Sith Lord 13]

I mean't like Ministry of War, where tactics about attacking a country or invading a country is discussed.
Sith Lord America must have something like that, it owns half of middle east.

Nope, only the Department of Defense.

[Rutherford The Brave]

Fighting over something that could normally be solved by words is annoying to me. There really is no reason to fight.

[Perseus]

Fighting over something that could normally be solved by words is annoying to me. There really is no reason to fight.

I'm just going to put this out there. War is the last solution to a problem.

[[[chickaroo92]]]

Fighting over something that could normally be solved by words is annoying to me. There really is no reason to fight.

When did words work out for the Palestinians? Before or after they blew people up? See what I am saying?

Yes, words can and should be used, but when words do not work out, or cannot work out, then physical defense is the only true and right answer.


I'm just going to put this out there. War is the last solution to a problem.

Seriously.


You can talk all the heck you want, but sometimes talking just doesn't cut it.

[Rutherford The Brave]

];998808']When did words work out for the Palestinians? Before or after they blew people up? See what I am saying?

Yes, words can and should be used, but when words do not work out, or cannot work out, then physical defense is the only true and right answer.




Seriously.


You can talk all the heck you want, but sometimes talking just doesn't cut it.

Ok I see, putting a gun to a far inferior enemies head solves all the world's issues. Don't worry, our choke hold on Afghanistan has them totally wanting to tell us where Osama is hiding.

[The Dark Lord]

Ok I see, putting a gun to a far inferior enemies head solves all the world's issues. Don't worry, our choke hold on Afghanistan has them totally wanting to tell us where Osama is hiding.

You think if we ask them really really nicely they might even give us directions?

I'm just going to put this out there. War is the last solution to a problem.

I agree partly, war isn't always the last solution but it should only be explored if compromise/talking isn't working

[Rutherford The Brave]

You think if we ask them really really nicely they might even give us directions?



I agree partly, war isn't always the last solution but it should only be explored if compromise/talking isn't working

Yeah but neither does violence so I don't know why your argueing that point.

[The Dark Lord]

Yeah but neither does violence so I don't know why your argueing that point.

Why did you bring the point up in the first place? You can't say X doesn't work when Y also doesn't work. That was why I disputed the point.

[[[chickaroo92]]]

Ok I see, putting a gun to a far inferior enemies head solves all the world's issues. Don't worry, our choke hold on Afghanistan has them totally wanting to tell us where Osama is hiding.

Yeah but neither does violence so I don't know why your argueing that point.

Dude. Duuuuude. Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude.
First of all, talking hasn't worked.
Secondly, it won't work
and thirdly, talking is useless in that situation.

Thank-you.

[Rutherford The Brave]

];999713']Dude. Duuuuude. Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude.
First of all, talking hasn't worked.
Secondly, it won't work
and thirdly, talking is useless in that situation.

Thank-you.

So killing numerous people to find a man who's hiding is just the best idea. Let's just make every country think of us as power hungry assholes who run around with thier guns and their thumbs up their asses. Please, I'd love for you to tell me how things have turned out good when we jumped right into war. AHEM Vietnam. Don't call me dude either, I'm not your fucking friend.

[[[chickaroo92]]]

So killing numerous people to find a man who's hiding is just the best idea. Let's just make every country think of us as power hungry assholes who run around with their guns and their thumbs up their asses. Please, I'd love for you to tell me how things have turned out good when we jumped right into war. AHEM Vietnam. Don't call me dude either, I'm not your fucking friend.

You're a toughie.
Okay, listen really close. In fact, put your ear right up to the damn computer.
The ONLY power hungry assholes are the fucking Al-Quada and all those blood thirsty Terrorist groups.
Talking doesn't help. Yes, we can talk and talk and continue to talk, but that makes us the weak ones. We have talked. We have bargained. But, then we needed to have actual action. No, we are NOT power hungry, however, we are caring people, and therefore as caring people, we have to do what is right. In this case, killing the bad guys is not only right, but its the only way we can have friggen peace.

[Rutherford The Brave]

];999758']You're a toughie.
Okay, listen really close. In fact, put your ear right up to the damn computer.
The ONLY power hungry assholes are the fucking Al-Quada and all those blood thirsty Terrorist groups.
Talking doesn't help. Yes, we can talk and talk and continue to talk, but that makes us the weak ones. We have talked. We have bargained. But, then we needed to have actual action. No, we are NOT power hungry, however, we are caring people, and therefore as caring people, we have to do what is right. In this case, killing the bad guys is not only right, but its the only way we can have friggen peace.

Caring? Really we are soooo caring believe me. For fuck's sake we can't even take care of the people in New Orleans, who have been suffering for 5 years but yet we care so much about a raving band of extremists. Believe me, we as Americans are oh so caring about other people. Since we sit here and care more about people we can't find as people die in Darfur. Oh yeah but since we bargained so much we can't care about anyone else because me need to keep our pride, so we need to show the other nations that we have the bigger balls and go find the bearded man. Please learn something for once, we had peace, until we invaded their country.

[Sith Lord 13]

Please learn something for once, we had peace, until we invaded their country.

Ummmmmmmm, WHAT? September 11th, 2001. They struck first.

[Rutherford The Brave]

Ummmmmmmm, WHAT? September 11th, 2001. They struck first.

Doesn't give us the right to bust down the door.

[Sith Lord 13]

Doesn't give us the right to bust down the door.

It gives us the right to use any means necessary to bring those responsible to justice.

[[[chickaroo92]]]

It gives us the right to use any means necessary to bring those responsible to justice.
Exactly.
Which includes using physical defense. Do you honestly think that talking to people after 9/11 would work? No. This is exactly why its correct to fight.

[Rutherford The Brave]

It gives us the right to use any means necessary to bring those responsible to justice.

Justice? You call this justice? Really lets talk about justice. Past U.S trying to get some justice during vietnam. Littered Laos with its unused bombs now hundreds of laos farmers are killed yearly. Kids in Iraq and Afghanistan are missing legs, arms and some are dead because we litter their streets with bombs. Really how can you condone that just because you want a few people dead. I know you'd probably condone the reckless killing of anyone who shares a similar hatred for the united states. You just won't stop until their is blood every where and you can tell the other nations, that you whiped the taliban of the face of the earth. You fit into a catagory or many infamous groups of people that whiped other nations off the planet solely due to your hate. So what if they killed people, people are killed around the world in much larger numbers but since your pride was hurt, you'd rather seek vegence over something that happened nearly 9 years ago. Don't worry every country in the world will love the fact that we have the materials they need but aren't willing to share because we are playing a huge game of hide and seek and failing badly at it. I'm sure they'll understand that their hunger and pain is less important than the pride of every gun wielding, trash talking and obese American.

[fernie]

without war there is no peace

[Rutherford The Brave]

without war there is no peace

You are wrong. When there is no war there is peace. You can't fight a war then be like there is nothing wrong. You can't avoid the fact that you nearly destroyed a nation for what you call your own safety. Then be like we are the bestest of friends ever yippee! Let's go have a pillow fight or a beer and put aside the fact that I kicked your ass six ways to sunday.

[ShatteredWings]

without war there is no peace

The phrase you're looking for is "If you want peace you must prepare for war"

[Perseus]

Justice? You call this justice? Really lets talk about justice. Past U.S trying to get some justice during vietnam. Littered Laos with its unused bombs now hundreds of laos farmers are killed yearly. Kids in Iraq and Afghanistan are missing legs, arms and some are dead because we litter their streets with bombs. Really how can you condone that just because you want a few people dead. I know you'd probably condone the reckless killing of anyone who shares a similar hatred for the united states. You just won't stop until their is blood every where and you can tell the other nations, that you whiped the taliban of the face of the earth. You fit into a catagory or many infamous groups of people that whiped other nations off the planet solely due to your hate. So what if they killed people, people are killed around the world in much larger numbers but since your pride was hurt, you'd rather seek vegence over something that happened nearly 9 years ago. Don't worry every country in the world will love the fact that we have the materials they need but aren't willing to share because we are playing a huge game of hide and seek and failing badly at it. I'm sure they'll understand that their hunger and pain is less important than the pride of every gun wielding, trash talking and obese American.

Although I agree with you, most U.S. troops are disarming bombs in Iraq(I don't know about Afghanistan). The troops look for I.E.D.s when they're in the cities.

[Rutherford The Brave]

Although I agree with you, most U.S. troops are disarming bombs in Iraq(I don't know about Afghanistan). The troops look for I.E.D.s when they're in the cities.

As they should.

[Obscene Eyedeas]

without war there is no peace

Ok first off, war =/= peace, no war = peace. If you talk to someone and they do not listen to you, do you go blow their head off? I think not. Now i'm going to be frank, you should try to manipulate them without their knowledge and even then in the end if it does not work, why is everyone so happily jumping to armed combat without a second thought?

And this eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth business, ya not the best way to show how civilized your country is, you describe them in this way: The ONLY power hungry assholes are the fucking Al-Quada and all those blood thirsty Terrorist groups.

Yet you go into their territory, kill them, destroy their homeland and you consider yourself above them because they started it, bravo armies.

Then taking terrorist groups, ya there are very many terrorist groups if we take the literal definition (terrorist group - a political movement that uses terror as a weapon to achieve its goals) but one need only look closer to home to find such groups and infiltration of such organizations is used often times rather then violence

Now as for the op's question, no not every soldier in ANY war will fight for the rights of the people. Some may and others will not.

[Church]

Everyone joins the Armed Forces for a different reason, some want a career, some want adventure, some want to fight for freedom. Really its what they believe that determines what they're fighting for. They are fighting for Freedom in most wars but its really what they think they're fighting for that matters to each individual soldier.

[Amnesiac]

Everyone joins the Armed Forces for a different reason, some want a career, some want adventure, some want to fight for freedom. Really its what they believe that determines what they're fighting for. They are fighting for Freedom in most wars but its really what they think they're fighting for that matters to each individual soldier.

Many soldiers are in the army simply because the military is low on its recruitment goals and, in this job market, unemployed people will take almost anything that pays. Being in the military is simply another job, it pays and it has benefits unlike any other career. People will enroll so they can make a living. Yes, there are those who sign up because of their beliefs, but I don't see many tea party conservatives who support the war rushing to their local military offices.

[Sith Lord 13]

Justice? You call this justice? Really lets talk about justice. Past U.S trying to get some justice during vietnam. Littered Laos with its unused bombs now hundreds of laos farmers are killed yearly. Kids in Iraq and Afghanistan are missing legs, arms and some are dead because we litter their streets with bombs. Really how can you condone that just because you want a few people dead. I know you'd probably condone the reckless killing of anyone who shares a similar hatred for the united states. You just won't stop until their is blood every where and you can tell the other nations, that you whiped the taliban of the face of the earth. You fit into a catagory or many infamous groups of people that whiped other nations off the planet solely due to your hate. So what if they killed people, people are killed around the world in much larger numbers but since your pride was hurt, you'd rather seek vegence over something that happened nearly 9 years ago. Don't worry every country in the world will love the fact that we have the materials they need but aren't willing to share because we are playing a huge game of hide and seek and failing badly at it. I'm sure they'll understand that their hunger and pain is less important than the pride of every gun wielding, trash talking and obese American.

When you sat there and watched the towers fall, you can talk. When you stood there and breathed air that reeked of death, you can talk. When you stayed up, wondering how many people you just lost from your own personal life, you can talk. When you wondered if you still had a father, or if he was just another casualty, you can talk. When you can't look outside without being reminded of the losses, you can talk. When you've sat for hours listening to people cry about the family they lost, you can talk. When you've sat through funeral, after funeral, after funeral, you can talk. The day you're ready to realize that be it 9 years ago or 90 years ago, it still matters that there are people out there who are planning the next great attack, you can talk.

Until that day, you can STFU.

I'm not saying there aren't mistakes in wars. I'm not saying there aren't things we could have done better. Of course there are. And if you want to debate how the war was carried out, that's fine. But don't say to get over the death's of almost 3000 people because it was almost 9 years ago. Justice isn't about time. Safety isn't about time. It's about making sure that we have done everything we can to prevent another attack against civilians. It's about making sure that those men who planned and orchestrated those attacks are brought to justice in a court of law.

[Rutherford The Brave]

When you sat there and watched the towers fall, you can talk. When you stood there and breathed air that reeked of death, you can talk. When you stayed up, wondering how many people you just lost from your own personal life, you can talk. When you wondered if you still had a father, or if he was just another casualty, you can talk. When you can't look outside without being reminded of the losses, you can talk. When you've sat for hours listening to people cry about the family they lost, you can talk. When you've sat through funeral, after funeral, after funeral, you can talk. The day you're ready to realize that be it 9 years ago or 90 years ago, it still matters that there are people out there who are planning the next great attack, you can talk.

Until that day, you can STFU.

I'm not saying there aren't mistakes in wars. I'm not saying there aren't things we could have done better. Of course there are. And if you want to debate how the war was carried out, that's fine. But don't say to get over the death's of almost 3000 people because it was almost 9 years ago. Justice isn't about time. Safety isn't about time. It's about making sure that we have done everything we can to prevent another attack against civilians. It's about making sure that those men who planned and orchestrated those attacks are brought to justice in a court of law.

Don't you dare tell me to shut the fuck up. We have killed many and done nothing with this war other than waste lives and a shit ton of money. I don't care if 3000 people died in one day 9 years ago, sure I was upset about it then. More than 3000 people die a week in darfur every year for a long time. It happened once, and now we just kill everyone because we are only concerned about being the greatest. So I hope the pain that you feel one day is just as great as anyone who has even been ignored by the Americans.

[Obscene Eyedeas]

This is to stop here. If anyone wishes to continue note you are breaking site rules and further action will be taken. Ad hominem attacks have no place in a debate. Keep it clean please.

[Rutherford The Brave]

America are the real terrorists here. Instilling fear in a poor country, changing the way they live just so we can find one man. Don't you think it must be hard to see a bunch of men and women who don't share your beliefs and may possibly be mad if you say something, not to mention they carry guns. We are instilling fear into these people with our numbers and our technology. Because America knows that it cannot win any other way, other then to scare the crap out of it's enemies.

[Sith Lord 13]

Don't you dare tell me to shut the fuck up. We have killed many and done nothing with this war other than waste lives and a shit ton of money. I don't care if 3000 people died in one day 9 years ago, sure I was upset about it then. More than 3000 people die a week in darfur every year for a long time. It happened once, and now we just kill everyone because we are only concerned about being the greatest. So I hope the pain that you feel one day is just as great as anyone who has even been ignored by the Americans.

So we haven't killed some high ranking al-Qaeda officials? We haven't destabilized their training camps?

And excuse me for wanting to protect my family first, before I worry about Darfur. I would never wish on you the kind of pain people, myself included, experienced on September 11th. I'm sorry if what I said bothered you, but when people who didn't experience it first hand say we should just get over it, I'm hurt. Because you don't know what it's like, watching those towers fall. You don't know what it's like to have to look around you every day, watching for smoking cars or out of place packages. Nine years may sound like a while to you, but every time a New Yorker looks at the skyline, they're reminded of what happened. They're reminded that there are people out there who will not rest until the day America has fallen. I'm sorry, but unless you actually know what it is to have to be reminded of that everyday, you can't possibly understand the true impact of September 11th. I'm sorry if you feel offended by what I said, that was never my intent, but I stand by what I said. You cannot tell me to "get over" the largest loss of life on American soil. Losing friends and family. All because some people are offended by the fact that I don't subscribe to their beliefs. If this could be brought to a peaceful conclusion by using words, I'd be all for it. It's not blood that most proponents of the war seek. It's peace and security. They have vowed to fight to the death. If the only way to protect innocent civilians is to kill those who would seek to lead these terrorist organizations, I am in support of it. Because I would never want you, or anyone else, to have to go through what New Yorkers went through on September 11th.

[[[chickaroo92]]]

America are the real terrorists here. Instilling fear in a poor country, changing the way they live just so we can find one man. Don't you think it must be hard to see a bunch of men and women who don't share your beliefs and may possibly be mad if you say something, not to mention they carry guns. We are instilling fear into these people with our numbers and our technology. Because America knows that it cannot win any other way, other then to scare the crap out of it's enemies.
I'm sorry, but we weren't the ones with the intention to kill innocent people just for the sake of it.
We weren't the ones who blew up the Twin Towers
We weren't the ones who went into Israel, and started attacking innocent soldiers.
We weren't the ones who blew up buses (trains?) in England.
And we weren't the ones who danced in the streets when an innocent civilian died.
So, you have no right to say we are the Terrorists, because we are not.
This has gone way too far. You are bashing America, yet you live here.
Yeah, Darfur and New Orleans need are help, and they are getting it.
But when it comes to someone's life, especially Israelis or Americans, then yes, we need war in order to end this great genocide. We are Allies with Israel, therefore, if a terrorist or a bunch of them decide that they will "Wipe America and Israel off the map," or they decide, "lets blow up the twin towers, because all these people should die," blah blah blah then proper action must be taken.

[Rutherford The Brave]

];1000036']I'm sorry, but we weren't the ones with the intention to kill innocent people just for the sake of it.
We weren't the ones who blew up the Twin Towers
We weren't the ones who went into Israel, and started attacking innocent soldiers.
We weren't the ones who blew up buses (trains?) in England.
And we weren't the ones who danced in the streets when an innocent civilian died.
So, you have no right to say we are the Terrorists, because we are not.
This has gone way too far. You are bashing America, yet you live here.
Yeah, Darfur and New Orleans need are help, and they are getting it.
But when it comes to someone's life, especially Israelis or Americans, then yes, we need war in order to end this great genocide. We are Allies with Israel, therefore, if a terrorist or a bunch of them decide that they will "Wipe America and Israel off the map," or they decide, "lets blow up the twin towers, because all these people should die," blah blah blah then proper action must be taken.

I'll bash America all I want, your ancestors murder my ancestors in fear of us. You were land hungry, nay power hungry and you nearly whiped my ancestors off the planet. You all think you can act anyway you want towards these people just because they knocked down 2 towers. So stubborn and proud for no reason. Just because you managed to enter a world war late and take care of two already far insuperior and battle warn nations. Doesn't mean you can't be the target of people who don't like your superiority complex. I for one know for a fact that the US is not doing nearly enough for New Orleans and Darfur.

[[[chickaroo92]]]

I'll bash America all I want, your ancestors murder my ancestors in fear of us. You were land hungry, nay power hungry and you nearly whiped my ancestors off the planet. You all think you can act anyway you want towards these people just because they knocked down 2 towers. So stubborn and proud for no reason. Just because you managed to enter a world war late and take care of two already far insuperior and battle warn nations. Doesn't mean you can't be the target of people who don't like your superiority complex. I for one know for a fact that the US is not doing nearly enough for New Orleans and Darfur.
Fear? Did he just say fear? This calls for a laughing session, excuse me while I go laugh my head off from such a stupid thing.

*All better.*

No, we don't fear. If we feared, we wouldn't be protecting in the first place! America doesn't fear anyone or anything.

[Rutherford The Brave]

];1000340']Fear? Did he just say fear? This calls for a laughing session, excuse me while I go laugh my head off from such a stupid thing.

*All better.*

No, we don't fear. If we feared, we wouldn't be protecting in the first place! America doesn't fear anyone or anything.

Thank you for proving my point. I knew you'd walk into that.

[[[chickaroo92]]]

Thank you for proving my point. I knew you'd walk into that.
Listen, sometimes its good to admit you're wrong.
Because you are. Yes, you are in fact entitled to your opinion.
But in this case, and in these standards, America has every right to kill in order to protect.
The ONLY people who have have absolutely no right to live, are those bastards, aka the terrorists. And, if an innocent civilian happens to be in the way, don't think for one minute that we do not care about them, because we do. And, we try in fact NOT to harm them. But if they happen to be at the wrong place, at the wrong place, then yes, they can get hurt.

Terrorists are not and I repeat are NOT innocent.

[Rutherford The Brave]

I'm not saying they are, I'm saying that Americans think they are the greatest. The best things to happen to the world since sliced bread. When in reality you've cause more problems for the rest of the people in the world then you thought you did. Too bad your to blind with pride that you can't realize your road to the top is covered with blood.

[[[chickaroo92]]]

I'm not saying they are, I'm saying that Americans think they are the greatest. The best things to happen to the world since sliced bread. When in reality you've cause more problems for the rest of the people in the world then you thought you did. Too bad your to blind with pride that you can't realize your road to the top is covered with blood.
We don't think we're the greatest.
Where the fuck do you read this made up BS from?

[Rutherford The Brave]

I beg to differ, if your not the greatest then why are you not afraid?

[Sith Lord 13]

I'm not saying they are, I'm saying that Americans think they are the greatest. The best things to happen to the world since sliced bread. When in reality you've cause more problems for the rest of the people in the world then you thought you did. Too bad your to blind with pride that you can't realize your road to the top is covered with blood.

Not all Americans assume that we are the greatest. It's an overgeneralized stereotype. Not saying there are none, but what you just said is like saying all African-Americans like fried chicken. It's a stereotype, one which I have to say I'm offended by.

[[[chickaroo92]]]

I beg to differ, if your not the greatest then why are you not afraid?
Because we have faith. FAITH.
That's why. Mr. Stereotypical. >.<

[Rutherford The Brave]

Not all Americans assume that we are the greatest. It's an overgeneralized stereotype. Not saying there are none, but what you just said is like saying all African-Americans like fried chicken. It's a stereotype, one which I have to say I'm offended by.

Once again just furthering my points that were posted earlier. So proud, so ill-tempered, so stubborn. Everything, every person who questions an americans pride is a terrorists. Everyone who makes fun of you, challenges your faith you see as a mortal enemy.

[[[chickaroo92]]]

Once again just furthering my points that were posted earlier. So proud, so ill-tempered, so stubborn. Everything, every person who questions an americans pride is a terrorists. Everyone who makes fun of you, challenges your faith you see as a mortal enemy.
*coughbullshitcoughcoughcough*

[Rutherford The Brave]

See you can't even have a civil debate.

[[[chickaroo92]]]

See you can't even have a civil debate.
Oh. Wow.
Now you're telling me that I think highly of myself, and now I am not civil enough?
I've been plenty civil and giving evidence. All you have been doing was bashing. No evidence. Period.
Before you tell me whats civil and what isn't, get your facts straight.

[Rutherford The Brave]

];1000392']Oh. Wow.
Now you're telling me that I think highly of myself, and now I am not civil enough?
I've been plenty civil and giving evidence. All you have been doing was bashing. No evidence. Period.
Before you tell me whats civil and what isn't, get your facts straight.

I'm pretty sure your the one who is saying everything I'm pointing out is bullshit because you do not want to hear it. I keep giving you evidence of things that you have done in the past and your just telling me Im wrong the whole time.

[[[chickaroo92]]]

I'm pretty sure your the one who is saying everything I'm pointing out is bullshit because you do not want to hear it. I keep giving you evidence of things that you have done in the past and your just telling me Im wrong the whole time.
This debate is finished, I think.
If you can be reasonable, I'll come back, until then just... get your facts straight and NOT stereotype. Thanks.

[Rutherford The Brave]

];1000398']This debate is finished, I think.
If you can be reasonable, I'll come back, until then just... get your facts straight and NOT stereotype. Thanks.

Typical American style, I can't win. So I'll walk out.

[[[chickaroo92]]]

Typical American style, I can't win. So I'll walk out.
No, that's actually the Liberal way of doing things.
Talking doesn't work? No problem I'll just accept the hit, and then walk.
PFFFT.

[Rutherford The Brave]

Thats not what I'm seeing. I'm seeing the conservative, how dare someone challenge me mentality. I can't lose, I'm always right smug way of talking. Thats what Im gettiing.

Its so common, America thinking they knew whats right gave afghanies wepons to fight off the Russians. Now you wonder why they became so proficient at shooting. Oh lets see in your haste and Fear of the Russian Americans TAUGHT THE AFGHANIES to protect themselves with guns. Suprising how things come back to haunt you.

[Sith Lord 13]

Once again just furthering my points that were posted earlier. So proud, so ill-tempered, so stubborn. Everything, every person who questions an americans pride is a terrorists. Everyone who makes fun of you, challenges your faith you see as a mortal enemy.

Where has anyone called you a terrorist? I think you're a fine person. Not someone I agree with on everything, but a fine person. I can be stubborn, but trying to win a debate doesn't qualify. Yes, I came close to loosing my temper before, but that'll happen when you think about how close you came to loosing your father. And I'm not proud of everything this country has done. Again, I don't see you as an enemy, let alone a mortal one. You're a competitor in this debate but I've agreed with you on other issues. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I hate you, or am trying to belittle you as a person, or any such thing.

[Rutherford The Brave]

Where has anyone called you a terrorist? I think you're a fine person. Not someone I agree with on everything, but a fine person. I can be stubborn, but trying to win a debate doesn't qualify. Yes, I came close to loosing my temper before, but that'll happen when you think about how close you came to loosing your father. And I'm not proud of everything this country has done. Again, I don't see you as an enemy, let alone a mortal one. You're a competitor in this debate but I've agreed with you on other issues. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I hate you, or am trying to belittle you as a person, or any such thing.

I wasn't actually point that at you, I don't see much wrong in my opinion with what you are saying I see other worse arguements that need attention.

[Sith Lord 13]

I wasn't actually point that at you, I don't see much wrong in my opinion with what you are saying I see other worse arguements that need attention.

OK. Seeing as how you quoted my post and said it was evidence I kind of thought you were directing that at me.

[The Batman]

Guys the question in this thread is, "Do soldiers fight for freedom in every war?" let's get back to that.

[[[chickaroo92]]]

Guys the question in this thread is, "Do soldiers fight for freedom in every war?" let's get back to that.
Thank-you.

[Joey15]

I always believe that our soilders aredoingthe right thing and I back them in everything they do

[The Dark Lord]

I love the way some people's view on the war on terror is so flawed.

Soldiers fight for the freedom and rights of the people in every war. If you back through history you will see this is the case.

[ShyGuyInChicago]

I found this on the Internet.

http://www.scrapbook.com/quotes/doc/2448/27.html

"It is the soldier, not the reporter, Who has given us freedom of the press.
It is the soldier, not the poet, Who has given us freedom of speech.
It is the soldier, not the organizer, Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.
It is the soldier, Who salutes the flag, Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag, Who allows the protestor to burn the flag.

- Father Dennis Edward O'Brian, USMC (often incorrectly attributed to Charles M. Province)"
Author: - Father Dennis Edward O'Brian, USMC

[Sage]

"It is the soldier, not the reporter, Who has given us freedom of the press.
It is the soldier, not the poet, Who has given us freedom of speech.
It is the soldier, not the organizer, Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.
It is the soldier, Who salutes the flag, Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag, Who allows the protestor to burn the flag.

- Father Dennis Edward O'Brian, USMC (often incorrectly attributed to Charles M. Province)"
Author: - Father Dennis Edward O'Brian, USMC

Nobody gives us freedoms. Everyone is free to do everything until those freedoms are taken away, by laws. Soldiers kill people. People that make life inconvenient for the rest of us.

[ShyGuyInChicago]

Nobody gives us freedoms. Everyone is free to do everything until those freedoms are taken away, by laws.

So are you saying that soldiers do not stop people from outside of America from taking away our rights because that is what I have read.

[Sage]

So are you saying that soldiers do not stop people from outside of America from taking away our rights

That's exactly what I'm saying because it is absolutely asinine to think that a bunch of cave-dwelling, bronze-age neanderthals with AK-47s could ever come close to taking away a single freedom we enjoy.

[Rutherford The Brave]

That's exactly what I'm saying because it is absolutely asinine to think that a bunch of cave-dwelling, bronze-age neanderthals with AK-47s could ever come close to taking away a single freedom we enjoy.

^ What I have been hinting at all the time...

[Art_dude]

Nobody gives us freedoms. Everyone is free to do everything until those freedoms are taken away, by laws. Soldiers kill people. People that make life inconvenient for the rest of us.

Precisely.
"hey those soldiers are dying to protect your RIGHTS you liberal flaming homo"

----> Actually the U.S. CONSTITUTION does that you bigoted nationalist, redneck >.>

[Sith Lord 13]

----> Actually the U.S. CONSTITUTION does that you bigoted nationalist, redneck >.>

Without the soldiers to back it up, the constitution is just a piece of paper. It does nothing to secure those rights for you.

Think of it like this: The city council can pass all sorts of laws saying things are illegal. But if the cops don't exist, people aren't going to care. The laws won't matter.

The soldiers are out there protecting American lives by destabilizing terrorist organizations and keeping them on the defensive. If there were no soldiers doing this, there would be many more successful terrorist attacks on Americans, both home and abroad. Eventually, people would get sick of dying and fearing for their lives, and submit to the terrorist demands. And the constitution would go right out the window. I'm not saying it would happen in a year, or ten years, or even in our lifetime, but when a people are continuously attacked for decades, they're either going to have to fight back or submit. Without the military you can't fight back.

[Art_dude]

Without the soldiers to back it up, the constitution is just a piece of paper. It does nothing to secure those rights for you.

Think of it like this: The city council can pass all sorts of laws saying things are illegal. But if the cops don't exist, people aren't going to care. The laws won't matter.

The soldiers are out there protecting American lives by destabilizing terrorist organizations and keeping them on the defensive. If there were no soldiers doing this, there would be many more successful terrorist attacks on Americans, both home and abroad. Eventually, people would get sick of dying and fearing for their lives, and submit to the terrorist demands. And the constitution would go right out the window. I'm not saying it would happen in a year, or ten years, or even in our lifetime, but when a people are continuously attacked for decades, they're either going to have to fight back or submit. Without the military you can't fight back.

We're not talking about cops - you're avoiding the point. Of course our police are needed for law enforcement whence the existence of cops and a judicial system.

Soldiers aren't fighting for our freedoms they're fighting in defense of national security. I don't see why people can't see that - it's not in anyway demeaning they're importance - hell yes we need them to protect us from terrorism and other threats. But don't for one second think that you can convince me that the slaughter of Iraqi civilians by U.S. troops is in anyway upholding the constitution or in anyway defending my rights. The war on terror and whether or not soldiers in general are fighting for protecting our rights are two separate topics.

[ShyGuyInChicago]

We're not talking about cops - you're avoiding the point. Of course our police are needed for law enforcement whence the existence of cops and a judicial system.

Soldiers aren't fighting for our freedoms they're fighting in defense of national security. I don't see why people can't see that - it's not in anyway demeaning they're importance - hell yes we need them to protect us from terrorism and other threats. But don't for one second think that you can convince me that the slaughter of Iraqi civilians by U.S. troops is in anyway upholding the constitution or in anyway defending my rights. The war on terror and whether or not soldiers in general are fighting for protecting our rights are two separate topics.

It could be said that soldiers are fighting for freedom from being attacked and the right to be safe

[Sith Lord 13]

We're not talking about cops - you're avoiding the point. Of course our police are needed for law enforcement whence the existence of cops and a judicial system.

It was an analogy. It illustrated the point.

Soldiers aren't fighting for our freedoms they're fighting in defense of national security. I don't see why people can't see that - it's not in anyway demeaning they're importance - hell yes we need them to protect us from terrorism and other threats.

Without security, freedoms can't exist. You don't have the right to peaceably assemble if you can be attacked by a random terrorist group because you oppose them. You don't have freedom of religion if you're going to be killed for not worshiping the right god. You don't have freedom of the press if you're going to receive death threats because people don't like the cartoon you drew.

But don't for one second think that you can convince me that the slaughter of Iraqi civilians by U.S. troops is in anyway upholding the constitution or in anyway defending my rights. The war on terror and whether or not soldiers in general are fighting for protecting our rights are two separate topics.

I don't believe there has been any slaughter of Iraqi civilians by anyone other than Saddam Hussein. There may have been some accidents in the course of the war, but that does not equate to the slaughter of civilians. If you want to dispute that, I'd like to see some evidence.

The war on terror is germane as it is a specific example of the overarching question.

I do think a clarification of the question is in order, though. Are we discussing individual soldiers, the acts of modern western militaries, or the acts of all militaries ever?

If it's the last, the answer is inherently no, as there are opposing sides. Obvious example is Nazis, who fought for territorial expansion.

If it's the first, the answer is no, as some soldiers fight only because they need a job and others fight for the bloodlust. Many of them do fight because they're motivated in part by the fight for freedom, at least in part, but that is not true for all soldiers.

[dead]

It was an analogy. It illustrated the point.



Without security, freedoms can't exist. You don't have the right to peaceably assemble if you can be attacked by a random terrorist group because you oppose them. You don't have freedom of religion if you're going to be killed for not worshiping the right god. You don't have freedom of the press if you're going to receive death threats because people don't like the cartoon you drew.



I don't believe there has been any slaughter of Iraqi civilians by anyone other than Saddam Hussein. There may have been some accidents in the course of the war, but that does not equate to the slaughter of civilians. If you want to dispute that, I'd like to see some evidence.

The war on terror is germane as it is a specific example of the overarching question.

I do think a clarification of the question is in order, though. Are we discussing individual soldiers, the acts of modern western militaries, or the acts of all militaries ever?

If it's the last, the answer is inherently no, as there are opposing sides. Obvious example is Nazis, who fought for territorial expansion.

If it's the first, the answer is no, as some soldiers fight only because they need a job and others fight for the bloodlust. Many of them do fight because they're motivated in part by the fight for freedom, at least in part, but that is not true for all soldiers.
So the 1,100 suicides and the multiple purposeful friendly fire was Saddam Hussein also right?

[huginnmuninn]

if anything as long as the soldiers are over in the middle east dont make them have to ask permission to hunt down terrorist if the soldiers know where they are and dont leave them over there and restrict funding that needs to go to them

[Sith Lord 13]

So the 1,100 suicides and the multiple purposeful friendly fire was Saddam Hussein also right?

There has been no purposeful friendly fire. I'm not sure what you're referring to with 1,100 suicides.

[Rutherford The Brave]

There has been no purposeful friendly fire. I'm not sure what you're referring to with 1,100 suicides.

How do you know, you do not know that with 100% certainty.

[Sith Lord 13]

It's impossible to prove a negative. The burden of proof falls on the one bringing the accusation.

[Rutherford The Brave]

It's impossible to prove a negative. The burden of proof falls on the one bringing the accusation.

Actually its not. Most people in the army suffer from PTSD, it could cause them to hate each other quickly and make things quickly get out of hand.

[Sith Lord 13]

Actually its not. Most people in the army suffer from PTSD, it could cause them to hate each other quickly and make things quickly get out of hand.

I do agree it's many but I don't believe it's most. However, PTSD only begins AFTER you have ended the traumatic event. Hence the post traumatic.

And the burden of proof does fall on the one who's making the accusation.

[Rutherford The Brave]

Who ever does it it could be purposely you know what I mean? The way it's seen by others might seem to be an accident.

[Sith Lord 13]

Who ever does it it could be purposely you know what I mean? The way it's seen by others might seem to be an accident.

Yes, but where is your proof? Without proof, what you're saying is little more than libel.

[Rutherford The Brave]

Yes, but where is your proof? Without proof, what you're saying is little more than libel.

You said that it never happened. It could happen, it probably did. Just because there is no physical evidence/witness doesn't mean it never happened.

[Sith Lord 13]

You said that it never happened. It could happen, it probably did. Just because there is no physical evidence/witness doesn't mean it never happened.

But we must, by virtue of logic, assume that it never happened until there is evidence to the contrary. Otherwise, all logic goes right out the window. The burden of proof is on the accuser. If you can't back up your claims with hard evidence, you should, generally, withdraw them.

[Rutherford The Brave]

But we must, by virtue of logic, assume that it never happened until there is evidence to the contrary. Otherwise, all logic goes right out the window. The burden of proof is on the accuser. If you can't back up your claims with hard evidence, you should, generally, withdraw them.

No...We shouldn't that doesn't make sense thats like the whole tree in the woods thing. Of course it makes a noise, no one is just there to hear doesn't mean you can't feel it.

[dead]

But we must, by virtue of logic, assume that it never happened until there is evidence to the contrary. Otherwise, all logic goes right out the window. The burden of proof is on the accuser. If you can't back up your claims with hard evidence, you should, generally, withdraw them.

"However the deaths in Iraq recently appeared to be intentional by a fellow military member. Taking place at the Combat Stress Center located at Camp Liberty in Bagdad. The reports coming out of Iraq indicate that the soldier who yielded the weapon is now in custody but there is no further information on what, why, or how this horrendous act occurred."

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1737024/friendly_fire_takes_the_lives_of_five.html

This is just one do you want more?
The suicide was the general amount of suicides in the military while it was in Iraq. Look it up if you do not believe this. It was said in a military report about how bad of a job they were doing preventing it.

[Sith Lord 13]

No...We shouldn't that doesn't make sense thats like the whole tree in the woods thing. Of course it makes a noise, no one is just there to hear doesn't mean you can't feel it.

Ummm. This made absolutely no sense.You can't just claim something and expect everyone to believe it's true. If you fail to back up your claim, then it's not valid. Find a specific case where there was purposeful friendly fire ordered by the military. If you can't, all you have is a conspiracy theory.

"However the deaths in Iraq recently appeared to be intentional by a fellow military member. Taking place at the Combat Stress Center located at Camp Liberty in Bagdad. The reports coming out of Iraq indicate that the soldier who yielded the weapon is now in custody but there is no further information on what, why, or how this horrendous act occurred."

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1737024/friendly_fire_takes_the_lives_of_five.html

This is just one do you want more?
The suicide was the general amount of suicides in the military while it was in Iraq. Look it up if you do not believe this. It was said in a military report about how bad of a job they were doing preventing it.

Thank you for at least attempting to back up the claim. This, however, is just a preliminary and unsubstantiated news article. Hence the "appeared". Find one where the completed investigation found intentional friendly fire ordered by the military.

As for the suicides, while it is a pity, they cannot, for the most part, be directly attributed to the war, and many of them may have happened even if the war was not going on.

[The Batman]

Guys get back on topic "Do soldiers fight for freedom in every war?"

[dead]

Ummm. This made absolutely no sense.You can't just claim something and expect everyone to believe it's true. If you fail to back up your claim, then it's not valid. Find a specific case where there was purposeful friendly fire ordered by the military. If you can't, all you have is a conspiracy theory.



Thank you for at least attempting to back up the claim. This, however, is just a preliminary and unsubstantiated news article. Hence the "appeared". Find one where the completed investigation found intentional friendly fire ordered by the military.

As for the suicides, while it is a pity, they cannot, for the most part, be directly attributed to the war, and many of them may have happened even if the war was not going on.

First off I never said the military ordered it. Second Back on topic. Thirdly I have no more to say on this off topic debate.

[Whisper]

What is your opinion?

Soldiers follow orders. The morality of war is determined by the political government that was duly-elected by the people.

As far as I'm concerned if you have a beef with a war then direct your hate to the elected government NOT the soldiers.

If you're not willing to stand behind our soldiers, feel free to stand in front.