Should incest be legal?

[Andrzej]

Incest is a universal taboo, being widely considered immoral in every known culture & society in history. But should it still be illegal in our modern society?

To be honest, I can't think of any legitimate reason as to why incest should be illegal. Most people would claim that it is illegal because of the high chances of genetic abnormalities in the offspring of incestuous relationships. But it is still legal for people with known hereditary diseases to reproduce, and what about homosexual incest relationships, or infertile people? If we believed in liberty, people should have the right to do whatever they want as long as it does not infringe upon the rights of others.

I should probably state that I in no way support incest. I consider it to be highly immoral and destructive to families. Not to mention it's absolutely disgusting, horrific and just plain messed up. It shouldn't be encouraged in any form.

You just aren't supposed to have these types of relationships with your family, family-type relationships are what you're supposed to have. When you're having sex with them you're basically destroying that important relationship, and in essence, just going ahead and destroying your family due to some weird lust that you have. I think anyone that is committing incest should seek counseling so they can hopefully get back to having a healthy relationship.

But I still think it should be legal, since it doesn't infringe on anyone's rights. I kind of feel the same way about polyamory. I consider it morally wrong (not as much as incest), but it's none of my business. What do you think?

[Jess]

Yes, I agree with you

it shouldn't be illegal but I find it disgusting to marry a family member, but it's none of my business if someone does it

[Amnesiac]

Incest is a universal taboo, being widely considered immoral in every known culture & society in history. But should it still be illegal in our modern society?

To be honest, I can't think of any legitimate reason as to why incest should be illegal. Most people would claim that it is illegal because of the high chances of genetic abnormalities in the offspring of incestuous relationships. But it is still legal for people with known hereditary diseases to reproduce, and what about homosexual incest relationships, or infertile people? If we believed in liberty, people should have the right to do whatever they want as long as it does not infringe upon the rights of others.

I should probably state that I in no way support incest. I consider it to be highly immoral and destructive to families. Not to mention it's absolutely disgusting, horrific and just plain messed up. It shouldn't be encouraged in any form.

You just aren't supposed to have these types of relationships with your family, family-type relationships are what you're supposed to have. When you're having sex with them you're basically destroying that important relationship, and in essence, just going ahead and destroying your family due to some weird lust that you have. I think anyone that is committing incest should seek counseling so they can hopefully get back to having a healthy relationship.

But I still think it should be legal, since it doesn't infringe on anyone's rights. I kind of feel the same way about polyamory. I consider it morally wrong (not as much as incest), but it's none of my business. What do you think?

Is incest disgusting? Of course. Does something being a social taboo justify it being illegal? No, not at all. It in no way affects me, but jailing people for doing something disgusting isn't a reason to imprison people.

[huginnmuninn]

if everything disgusting was illegal then we would have a big problem
i dont agree with it but it shouldnt be illegal

[Rutherford The Brave]

Incest, can destroy a family. Also we as humans have seen what happens to a group of animals that are so small in numbers, that they frequently inbreed subconsciously. They kill themselves out faster. Incest is illegal for a reason.

[justalovestruckteen]

This reminds me of Edgar Allan Poe, (the crazy guy who wrote the raven and other stuff)
When he was 27 he married his 13 year old first cousin,
As wrong as it is they were both in love, and thats all that matters love

[Dorsum Oppel]

Incest is a universal taboo, being widely considered immoral in every known culture & society in history. But should it still be illegal in our modern society?

Not at all. Through out many cultures, incest has been commonly accepted. Charles Darwin married, and had several children with his cousin. Edgar Allen Poe courted his young cousin -of 15 if I remember correctly- as well.

As for my stand on the issue, as long as there is consent, then why the fuck not. It's a bit like saying that an autistic person and their spouse can not have children due to the likelihood of the child being autistic as well. If they love each other, they have every right. Mentally handicapped people can be a functional and productive member of society.

On another point, people are all calling incest disgusting. How exactly is it disgusting? Oh, that's right. Because of preconceived cultural taboos that you've been taught. Think for your self.

[Amnesiac]

Not at all. Through out many cultures, incest has been commonly accepted. Charles Darwin married, and had several children with his cousin. Edgar Allen Poe courted his young cousin -of 15 if I remember correctly- as well.

I think you mean it has been historically accepted, but has since become taboo. Incest may still be accepted in some less developed nations, but in the West it's looked down upon.

[Dorsum Oppel]

I think you mean it has been historically accepted, but has since become taboo. Incest may still be accepted in some less developed nations, but in the West it's looked down upon.

And why exactly, is it so icky?

[Andrzej]

Incest, can destroy a family.

Yes, I know, I'm not condoning incest. But numerous things can harm family relations. Adultery can also destroy a family, should we make that illegal as well?

Not at all. Through out many cultures, incest has been commonly accepted. Charles Darwin married, and had several children with his cousin. Edgar Allen Poe courted his young cousin -of 15 if I remember correctly- as well.

Actually, marrying your cousin was not considered to be incest during those time periods, and was widely accepted and encouraged. Many cultures around the world today still encourage cousin marriages, and often arrange them for their children during their childhood. Different cultures have different family structures. But they still do not accept incest, which is sexual relationships between your immediate family (siblings, parents, children).

And why exactly, is it so icky?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imprinting_%28psychology%29#Westermarck_effect

[Perseus]

I swear you just contradicted yourself in your post, OP.

[Andrzej]

I swear you just contradicted yourself in your post, OP.

How? :what:

[Perseus]

Incest is a universal taboo, being widely considered immoral in every known culture & society in history. But should it still be illegal in our modern society?

To be honest, I can't think of any legitimate reason as to why incest should be illegal. Most people would claim that it is illegal because of the high chances of genetic abnormalities in the offspring of incestuous relationships. But it is still legal for people with known hereditary diseases to reproduce, and what about homosexual incest relationships, or infertile people? If we believed in liberty, people should have the right to do whatever they want as long as it does not infringe upon the rights of others.

I should probably state that I in no way support incest. I consider it to be highly immoral and destructive to families. Not to mention it's absolutely disgusting, horrific and just plain messed up. It shouldn't be encouraged in any form.

You just aren't supposed to have these types of relationships with your family, family-type relationships are what you're supposed to have. When you're having sex with them you're basically destroying that important relationship, and in essence, just going ahead and destroying your family due to some weird lust that you have. I think anyone that is committing incest should seek counseling so they can hopefully get back to having a healthy relationship.

But I still think it should be legal, since it doesn't infringe on anyone's rights. I kind of feel the same way about polyamory. I consider it morally wrong (not as much as incest), but it's none of my business. What do you think?

Here you go.

[Dorsum Oppel]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imprinting_%28psychology%29#Westermarck_effect

I fail to see how a psychological effect makes incest immoral.

[Andrzej]

Here you go.

That's not a contradiction. Personal morality should have no place in law. Even though I (and pretty much everyone else) finds incest morally wrong, it should be legal because it is not infringing upon anyone else's rights. Just because something is legal doesn't mean I have to support it or accept it as okay.

I fail to see how a psychological effect makes incest immoral.

You were asking why people found it icky. I already gave my reasons in my first post as to why I found it immoral.

[Perseus]

That's not a contradiction. Personal morality should have no place in law. Even though I (and pretty much everyone else) finds incest morally wrong, it should be legal because it is not infringing upon anyone else's rights. Just because something is legal doesn't mean I have to support it or accept it as okay.





You were talking about how it isn't wrong and stuff, and then you go on about how you think it is wrong.

Contradiction: The statement of a position opposite to one already made - Google Chrome dictionary.

[Andrzej]

:what:

No dude, I'm not contradicting myself when I'm addressing the main argument to keep incest illegal and pointing out the hypocrisy of it. If people with known hereditary diseases, and have gone through genetic counseling who know the risks of reproducing are still legally allowed to have children, then people committing incest should be allowed to reproduce as well. That doesn't mean I support it because it is irresponsible to have kids with such a high chance of genetic abnormalities, incestuous or not. Besides, I have already given other reasons why I think it is wrong.

Jeez, come on. It isn't that hard to understand.

[Perseus]

:what:

No dude, I'm not contradicting myself when I'm addressing the main argument to keep incest illegal and pointing out the hypocrisy of it. If people with known hereditary diseases, and have gone through genetic counseling who know the risks of reproducing are still legally allowed to have children, then people committing incest should be allowed to reproduce as well. That doesn't mean I support it because it is irresponsible to have kids with such a high chance of genetic abnormalities, incestuous or not. Besides, I have already given other reasons why I think it is wrong.

Jeez, come on. It isn't that hard to understand.

Actually, there isn't as high of a chance of genetic disorders as you think. I forgot the rest of what I was going to put her, so that'll suffice for right now.

And lolwhoops, I didn't read the last sentence of your OP right.

[nick]

Relationships with cousins are legal and not regarded as incest in most countries including here in the UK. I certainly see nothing wrong with that. Having sexual relationships with your parents, children or siblings is a sick idea to me. All laws are effectively society setting limits, so you could argue there should be no laws as they all infringe our liberty.

[Dorsum Oppel]

You just aren't supposed to have these types of relationships with your family, family-type relationships are what you're supposed to have. When you're having sex with them you're basically destroying that important relationship, and in essence, just going ahead and destroying your family due to some weird lust that you have. I think anyone that is committing incest should seek counseling so they can hopefully get back to having a healthy relationship.


Yeah, and women just shouldn't wear pants.

Serioustimebeginsnow.
You just aren't supposed to have these types of relationships with your family, family-type relationships are what you're supposed to have.
According to who? Ohhhh right. Preconceived cultural notions that hold no standing in modern times, and aren't based upon fact or reasoning, but rather pointless tradition.

When you're having sex with them you're basically destroying that important relationship, and in essence, just going ahead and destroying your family due to some weird lust that you have.
I fail to see how having sex with someone you love is destroying any relationship. Or destroying your family. If incest were to destroy a family, that is the families fault for refusing to be open-minded, and are in essence destroying themselves. If a child came out as gay to his family, and the family was plummeted into turmoil, it's not the child fault for not liking vagina. It is the fault of the family who freaks out and rejects him to to their own petty prejudice.

[CaptainObvious]

Incest, can destroy a family. Also we as humans have seen what happens to a group of animals that are so small in numbers, that they frequently inbreed subconsciously. They kill themselves out faster. Incest is illegal for a reason.

What about us flaming faggots? :P

As the above line might imply, it seems to me that whatever breeding-based reason for these laws originally existed, it is no longer particularly necessary in an era where many people don't have children or could have children through another method than incestuous pregnancy even if they were involved in an incestuous relationship. I think conception of children between family members closely genetically related ought to be illegal, but other than that I don't care who someone gets their jollies with.

[Andrzej]

Think for your self.

Oh my God, you're such an individual for supporting incest. You're so open minded and free thinking and unique. Please tell me how I can be more like you :rolleyes:

According to who? Ohhhh right. Preconceived cultural notions that hold no standing in modern times, and aren't based upon fact or reasoning, but rather pointless tradition.

Oh sure, the basic institution of the family unit (Y'know, the cornerstone of our society?) and family relationships are completely pointless to the stability and well being of all of society. We don't need 'em :rolleyes:

I fail to see how having sex with someone you love is destroying any relationship. Or destroying your family. If incest were to destroy a family, that is the families fault for refusing to be open-minded, and are in essence destroying themselves.

Whether or not the family is "accepting" of it, does not change the fact that the two (or more) family members involved are perverting their original family relationship with sex. Which is kinda what I am against, whatever the rest of the family thinks about it is not that relevant to what my moral belief on incest is. I thought that was obvious.

If a child came out as gay to his family, and the family was plummeted into turmoil, it's not the child fault for not liking vagina. It is the fault of the family who freaks out and rejects him to to their own petty prejudice.

Well, except no one can come up with a legitimate reason why gender should be relevant in intimate/sexual relationships. I don't know about you, but perverting the purity of family relationships is a good enough reason for me to view incest as morally wrong.

I honestly don't care what your moral opinion of incest is, but let's not act as if you're some free-thinking intellectual for supporting it while anyone that doesn't are just close-minded idiots, mmkay?

[Sith Lord 13]

Well, except no one can come up with a legitimate reason why gender should be relevant in intimate/sexual relationships. I don't know about you, but perverting the purity of family relationships is a good enough reason for me to view incest as morally wrong.

Then how about perverting the purity of male-male (Or female-female) friendly relationships?

[Andrzej]

Then how about perverting the purity of male-male (Or female-female) friendly relationships?

Oh come on, really? Do I really have to defend my position on this?

Jeez :rolleyes:

Okay then, trying giving me one valid reason why gender should be relevant in a friendship or a sexual interest. Actually- scratch that. Give me one valid reason why gender should be relevant in any social relationship.

You should have re-thought your logic on this. Then you probably would've come the the obvious conclusion that, gee I don't know, incest and homosexuality have absolutely nothing to do with each other? Let's not try and paint me as a hypocrite because I support homosexuality and not incest. Probably because it doesn't make any damn sense.

[Sith Lord 13]

Oh come on, really? Do I really have to defend my position on this?

Jeez :rolleyes:

Okay then, trying giving me one valid reason why gender should be relevant in a friendship or a sexual interest. Actually- scratch that. Give me one valid reason why gender should be relevant in any social relationship.

You should have re-thought your logic on this. Then you probably would've come the the obvious conclusion that, gee I don't know, incest and homosexuality have absolutely nothing to do with each other? Let's not try and paint me as a hypocrite because I support homosexuality and not incest. Probably because it doesn't make any damn sense.

Actually it does. Both are sexual relationships parts of society looks down on. And my point was not to vilify homosexuality but rather point out that your argument, with but one word substitution, is equally applicable to homosexuality. The only real argument I've heard against incest that isn't equally applicable to homosexuality is about offspring.

[vice]

First, incest is considered when a brother has intercourse with a sister or a mother has intercourse with a son. Two brothers giving each other blow jobs is not incest.

Second, you do not want to allow this kind of intercourse because the resulting off spring can be adversely affected physically.

There is a recent case where a mother started having sex with her son at an early age. They ended up having six children by the time he was 22 years old. So the mother must have started having sex with her son when he was 12 or so.

They found out because the youngest, a girl, had developed a rare illness that was associated with incest.

You can look at how the chromosomes work. Females has two X chromosomes, say X1 and X2, and males have an X chromosome, say X3, and a Y chromosome. Therefore the offspring could have:

X1 X3
X2 X3
X1 Y
X2 Y

In other words, the son's chromosomes could be either X1 Y or X2 Y.

Now if the mother, with X1 and X2, has intercourse with her son, with X1 Y or X2 Y, then their offspring will be either: (assuming son is X1 Y)

X1 X1
X2 X1
X1 Y
X2 Y

See where the problem is? That youngest girl was an X1 X1. In other words, she had two chromosomes that were identical. Your two chromosomes need to be different.

[nick]

The news story I've posted today (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=81695) is pretty relevant to this. Its talking about 700 babies a year here in the UK with birth defects from cousin marriages. Now I've never been against cousin sex & marriage but that makes me think. Its not fair on those kids really, maybe our laws need strengthening to protect the unborn. Wont happen though, that would be seen as not multi-cultural enough.

[Nexus]

Criminalizing it merely undermines the right to choose. It's even a felony in most cases.

I'm not saying I condone it or anything of the like, but it also isn't my or any one else's place to tell consenting adults what is and isn't okay when it comes to their sexuality.

[Wonder.]

I have to agree with Coyote on this.

Although to make this post useful, I don't think they should be able to have children if the people are related closely. Other than that it should be legal. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. If they want to, why stop them? It doesn't cause any harm to anyone. No family will be torn apart over it. Although you do have to think about rape though. It would be easier to get away with if incest was legal. It would still be hard but a little bit easier.

[OnceMoreWithFeeling]

I have to agree with JeyLove, it is undermining peoples right of being able to chose who they want to spend there live's with. Why should it matter if the are related? It is kind of like in the oldin days were people could not marry out side of there race because it was concindered "bad" but people have gotten used to it. People have have also gotten used to gay marriages, so people should should be able to get past incest.

[Dorsum Oppel]

Oh my God, you're such an individual for supporting incest. You're so open minded and free thinking and unique. Please tell me how I can be more like you :rolleyes:

ahahahahuhuhuhhur ur so clever rlly


Oh sure, the basic institution of the family unit (Y'know, the cornerstone of our society?) and family relationships are completely pointless to the stability and well being of all of society. We don't need 'em :rolleyes:

The cornerstone of our society? I'm generally sure that society wouldn't come crashing down if we 'destroyed traditional family values'. How exactly does reestablishing family roles break down the corner stones of society? This is the exact same silly argument presented by anti-homosexual groups.


Whether or not the family is "accepting" of it, does not change the fact that the two (or more) family members involved are perverting their original family relationship with sex. Which is kinda what I am against, whatever the rest of the family thinks about it is not that relevant to what my moral belief on incest is. I thought that was obvious.

Well, except no one can come up with a legitimate reason why gender should be relevant in intimate/sexual relationships. I don't know about you, but perverting the purity of family relationships is a good enough reason for me to view incest as morally wrong.


You've still never explained what horrid things will result of this 'perversion', and how. All this talk about perverting the purity too. It's so 1800's.



I honestly don't care what your moral opinion of incest is, but let's not act as if you're some free-thinking intellectual for supporting it while anyone that doesn't are just close-minded idiots, mmkay?

Actually, yeah. I am a free-thinking intellectual. And you've continued to prove your self as close-minded by your selection of arguments based in nothing other than a corruption of traditional cultural values. This my friend, is the very definition of close minded.

[Rutherford The Brave]

What about us flaming faggots? :P

As the above line might imply, it seems to me that whatever breeding-based reason for these laws originally existed, it is no longer particularly necessary in an era where many people don't have children or could have children through another method than incestuous pregnancy even if they were involved in an incestuous relationship. I think conception of children between family members closely genetically related ought to be illegal, but other than that I don't care who someone gets their jollies with.

Lol but there are plenty of stingy homophobes to counter balance that issue XD no offense.

[INFERNO]

But I still think it should be legal, since it doesn't infringe on anyone's rights.

Oh but it can. The United Nations have a document entitled the Convention on the Rights of the Child.
Several of the articles mention physical and sexual abuse on the child, so incest can certainly fall under this. Granted, not all the time this will occur but it's hard to ignore. Another article, Article 3, 16, 18, 27 and several others state that the child should receive the best upbringing for development as possible that the parents can provide. I'm certain nobody would argue that having sex with the child is something that betters its development and does not cause harm. Article 34 specifically mentions that the child shall not be part of unlawful sexual practices. All of these articles certainly make incest illegal.
As for brother having sex with sister, brother with brother and any other combination under the Sun, I don't see how it betters their development nor is a healthy and safe place to live in.

SOURCE (http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/crc.htm)

One also has to question, if it's a legal adult having sex with a minor where the conditions are illegal in the area, then incest is illegal. This is more of a case-by-case basis for siblings having sex with each other or first cousins but for parents having sex with the children, it's probably not a case-by-case issue.

The argument of genetic abnormalities is only a strong one if many generations keep having incest thereby in-breeding. It's always a possibility but it's not a strong argument for just one generation.

[Sith Lord 13]

Oh but it can. The United Nations have a document entitled the Convention on the Rights of the Child.
Several of the articles mention physical and sexual abuse on the child, so incest can certainly fall under this. Granted, not all the time this will occur but it's hard to ignore. Another article, Article 3, 16, 18, 27 and several others state that the child should receive the best upbringing for development as possible that the parents can provide. I'm certain nobody would argue that having sex with the child is something that betters its development and does not cause harm. Article 34 specifically mentions that the child shall not be part of unlawful sexual practices. All of these articles certainly make incest illegal.
As for brother having sex with sister, brother with brother and any other combination under the Sun, I don't see how it betters their development nor is a healthy and safe place to live in.

SOURCE (http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/crc.htm)

One also has to question, if it's a legal adult having sex with a minor where the conditions are illegal in the area, then incest is illegal. This is more of a case-by-case basis for siblings having sex with each other or first cousins but for parents having sex with the children, it's probably not a case-by-case issue.

The argument of genetic abnormalities is only a strong one if many generations keep having incest thereby in-breeding. It's always a possibility but it's not a strong argument for just one generation.

I believe the base assumption of this discussion is that the incest is in otherwise appropriate relationships. A parent having sex with a child while the child is still a minor would be statutory rape, child molestation, etc. In those situations the incest is not as much an issue as the fact that the child is being sexually abused. Do you have any arguments against incest in an otherwise appropriate relationship?

[CaptainObvious]

Oh but it can. The United Nations have a document entitled the Convention on the Rights of the Child.
Several of the articles mention physical and sexual abuse on the child, so incest can certainly fall under this. Granted, not all the time this will occur but it's hard to ignore. Another article, Article 3, 16, 18, 27 and several others state that the child should receive the best upbringing for development as possible that the parents can provide. I'm certain nobody would argue that having sex with the child is something that betters its development and does not cause harm. Article 34 specifically mentions that the child shall not be part of unlawful sexual practices. All of these articles certainly make incest illegal.
As for brother having sex with sister, brother with brother and any other combination under the Sun, I don't see how it betters their development nor is a healthy and safe place to live in.

SOURCE (http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/crc.htm)

One also has to question, if it's a legal adult having sex with a minor where the conditions are illegal in the area, then incest is illegal. This is more of a case-by-case basis for siblings having sex with each other or first cousins but for parents having sex with the children, it's probably not a case-by-case issue.

The argument of genetic abnormalities is only a strong one if many generations keep having incest thereby in-breeding. It's always a possibility but it's not a strong argument for just one generation.

None of the things you presented are problems with incest, but are problems with specific other things related to incest (statutory rape, incestuous pregnancies). One can commit incest without doing any of those things, and so incest itself should not be disallowed.

[steve1234]

None of the things you presented are problems with incest, but are problems with specific other things related to incest (statutory rape, incestuous pregnancies). One can commit incest without doing any of those things, and so incest itself should not be disallowed.

I don't think incest should be allowed at all, as it is incredibly unfair if I child is born through incest. They could have health problems and disabilities, and if people knew he/she was created through incest, then would certainly get bullied.
I don't really care if people have incest and use protection...incest is a bit messed up, but thats nothing to do with me. My problem is if a child is produced by it.

[CaptainObvious]

I don't think incest should be allowed at all, as it is incredibly unfair if I child is born through incest. They could have health problems and disabilities, and if people knew he/she was created through incest, then would certainly get bullied.

Did you not read the post you quoted? Pregnancy is not an unavoidable consequence of incest. For example, I'm gay: if I ever committed incest it would certainly never result in a child.

[steve1234]

Did you not read the post you quoted? Pregnancy is not an unavoidable consequence of incest. For example, I'm gay: if I ever committed incest it would certainly never result in a child.

Fair enough, you can't make babies if its a gay relationship, but you can't really make it legal for gay people, and not straight people. You either need to make it illegal or legal.

[CaptainObvious]

Fair enough, you can't make babies if its a gay relationship, but you can't really make it legal for gay people, and not straight people. You either need to make it illegal or legal.

There's lots of ways for straight people to avoid pregnancies while having sex.

[Nathaniel]

I guess some people may find it disgusting or disturbing, but I really don't care what you want to do with your sex life; sex can be just physical. If you want to bang your mom and she is up for it, then go for it bud.

[INFERNO]

To both, the response was not to a question of why incest is bad or why is shouldn't be allowed. The response was to a question of whether incest infringes upon the child's rights and similar legal issues. That is the basis of the response I gave.

I believe the base assumption of this discussion is that the incest is in otherwise appropriate relationships. A parent having sex with a child while the child is still a minor would be statutory rape, child molestation, etc. In those situations the incest is not as much an issue as the fact that the child is being sexually abused. Do you have any arguments against incest in an otherwise appropriate relationship?

I'm confused by what you mean by an otherwise appropriate relationship? Are you asking about a relationship between siblings of similar ages because that's all I can think of?

None of the things you presented are problems with incest, but are problems with specific other things related to incest (statutory rape, incestuous pregnancies). One can commit incest without doing any of those things, and so incest itself should not be disallowed.

How can one commit incest while not violating the articles I mentioned relating to children having the right to live and grow in healthy and safe places that benefits their development as much as the parents can do? If one's relationship with their younger sister is having consensual sex, that is deviating from the social norms and can affect the child's interaction with fellow children.

[Fruit_Tart.]

This reminds me of Edgar Allan Poe, (the crazy guy who wrote the raven and other stuff)
When he was 27 he married his 13 year old first cousin,
As wrong as it is they were both in love, and thats all that matters love
me as well. :/

i think that it's gruesome to an extent. if you marry your cousin or any family member for that matter people in our society today would find you as a creep. i would. and if you do something like that then i wouldn't really care because it's none of my business and who am i to say what you can and can't do. anyways... i think incest should stay illegal.

[Nexus]

^ If you don't care then why would you want it to remain illegal?

It should only be illegal if malice can be proven, as such with any sex crime.

[Sith Lord 13]

I'm confused by what you mean by an otherwise appropriate relationship? Are you asking about a relationship between siblings of similar ages because that's all I can think of?

I meant a relationship, where, if they were not related, it would be acceptable, be it two 16 year olds, or a 20 year old and a 40 year old, etc.

[CaptainObvious]

How can one commit incest while not violating the articles I mentioned relating to children having the right to live and grow in healthy and safe places that benefits their development as much as the parents can do? If one's relationship with their younger sister is having consensual sex, that is deviating from the social norms and can affect the child's interaction with fellow children.

I am struggling to figure out how many times I'm going to have to repeat this before people stop raising objections that I have already covered. I guess at least once more, so:

What part of incest requires it to necessarily involve children? I define incest merely as sexual relations between relatives. I find no basis upon which that alone could be wrong. That doesn't mean I condone parents having incestuous sex with children, or even minor siblings doing so, or incestuous pregnancies, or any of the other things that are often involved. I am speaking specifically, and only about an otherwise acceptable consensual sexual relationship whose only questionable facet is that it involves family.

Anyway, to directly answer your question: if two gay brothers became attracted to each other in their 20s and began having sex, that would be incest that does not in any way affect any children or children's rights. So that's one way. There's myriad others. You need to stop intrinsically linking incest and its many negative attending actions, for they are not inseparable.