Should American-born children of illegal immigrants be granted citizenship?

[ShyGuyInChicago]

Should American-born children of illegal immigrants be granted citizenship?
They are assumed to be entitled to citizenship based on the 14th amendment, but some people dispute that. Does the 14th amendment allow for that? Is that the right interpretation?

Is it right for someone to be granted citizenship just by being born here even if their parents are illegal immigrants.

[Bougainvillea]

I'm kind of iffy on it.

I remember reading an article about a woman who came here illegally to have a baby, and went back to mexico to wait for her child to turn eighteen so he could bring them to America. Which is fucking retarded, because if she's THAT patient, she could have just applied for a visa. Lots of people abuse the system, and sometimes those people don't really contribute to society.

[ShatteredWings]

Is that the right interpretation?

If it's a law, it's open to interpretation. That's how politics works.

However, I don't think the child of an illegal should automatically be a citizen, or be eligible to apply for it when they're 18 without going through the process like everyone else.
If you parents are legal residents (greencard, working visa, whatever), then I don't see why the child can't hold the same residency status.

[ShyGuyInChicago]

If it's a law, it's open to interpretation. That's how politics works.

However, I don't think the child of an illegal should automatically be a citizen, or be eligible to apply for it when they're 18 without going through the process like everyone else.
If you parents are legal residents (greencard, working visa, whatever), then I don't see why the child can't hold the same residency status.

OK so you are saying that american born children of legal immigrants should not be considered citizens but instead legal residents? Why do you feel that way? If the immigration was legal then should American born children be legal citizens?

[ShatteredWings]

Legal residents can apply for citizenship.


By the way,I also feel that even if your parents are deported, the children SHOULD be allowed to return. It's not their fault their parents fucked up.

[Amnesiac]

I think it really depends on the situation and the parents' consent.

Let's say there's a couple in transit, and the mother has her child here while on vacation. It wouldn't be fair to them to have their child forcibly made American. Same goes for illegal immigrants, or immigrants overall.

Legitimate U.S. residents who are staying here on visa should be given a choice, not have citizenship forced down their throats.

[Perseus]

Lol, the anchor baby argument for this is so stupid...

I think it should be kept the way it is.

[ShyGuyInChicago]

I think it really depends on the situation and the parents' consent.

Let's say there's a couple in transit, and the mother has her child here while on vacation. It wouldn't be fair to them to have their child forcibly made American. Same goes for illegal immigrants, or immigrants overall.

Legitimate U.S. residents who are staying here on visa should be given a choice, not have citizenship forced down their throats.

The baby if born in America to a vacationing non-American would still be a citizen of the country its parents come from. Plus how would it be unfair to be parents for their child to become American. Why should parental consent be needed? How does it harm the child since they would still have the citizenship their parents have if their parents were on vacation at the time of the birth or at least be eligible in the event that they, the parents are legal residents? How does it harm the parents?

[Amnesiac]

The baby if born in America to a vacationing non-American would still be a citizen of the country its parents come from. Plus how would it be unfair to be parents for their child to become American. Why should parental consent be needed? How does it harm the child since they would still have the citizenship their parents have if their parents were on vacation at the time of the birth or at least be eligible in the event that they, the parents are legal residents? How does it harm the parents?

Children should have the same citizenship as their parents so they have the same privileges when traveling internationally or going back to their home country. You wouldn't want, for example, Australian parents and an American child, it would make travel and international moving much more difficult.

[Jess]

Wait, so I should be a citizen of China? My parents were born there but I'm a permanent resident of the US and a citizen of Canada. although I believe China's government does not allow multiple citizenships

[ShatteredWings]

Wait, so I should be a citizen of China? My parents were born there but I'm a permanent resident of the US and a citizen of Canada. although I believe China's government does not allow multiple citizenships

You've applied for residency, correct. You didn't get citizenship by birth.

Most governments don't allow multiple citizenship, to prevent treason (i'm torn on my views on this concept)

How does it harm the child since they would still have the citizenship their parents have if their parents were on vacation at the time of the birth or at least be eligible in the event that they, the parents are legal residents?
What about the bullshit they're going to have to go through to get their child citizenship in their OWN country.

[ShyGuyInChicago]

Children should have the same citizenship as their parents so they have the same privileges when traveling internationally or going back to their home country. You wouldn't want, for example, Australian parents and an American child, it would make travel and international moving much more difficult.

Often if a child is born in America to non-American parents who were here legally they will have dual citizenship. Actress Nicole Kidman is an example. She was born in America to Australian parents and moved back t Australia as a young child and she has dual citizenship. many countries give citizenship to children who are born overseas to their citizens so the problems you mention will not always happen.

[ShyGuyInChicago]

Children should have the same citizenship as their parents so they have the same privileges when traveling internationally or going back to their home country. You wouldn't want, for example, Australian parents and an American child, it would make travel and international moving much more difficult.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_nationality_law#Australian_Citizenship_by_Descent

Australian Citizenship by Descent

Persons born overseas to an Australian citizen parent have been able to acquire Australian citizenship in the following ways:
British subjects born outside Australia before 26 January 1949 with an Australian father became Australian citizens automatically upon entering Australia with a permanent visa (up to 30 April 1987)
A person born outside Australia on or after 26 January 1949 may be registered as an Australian citizen by descent provided
they had an Australian citizen parent at the time of birth; and
if the Australian parent is also an Australian citizen by descent, that parent had lived legally in Australia for a total of 2 years, or the person has no other nationality;
A person born outside Australia or New Guinea before 26 January 1949 may be registered as an Australian citizen provided:
that person has a parent born or naturalised in Australia or New Guinea; and
the parent became an Australian citizen on 26 January 1949.

If aged 18 or over, an applicant for Australian citizenship by descent must be of good character.

Australian citizenship by descent is never conferred at birth. While it will be granted upon application if the requirements are met, no child born outside Australia to an Australian parent acquires citizenship until this step is taken.

Registration as an Australian citizen by descent (pdf format)

[Ender]

I feel any human being born on any piece of land should be considered a citizen of the country under which flag that land represents.

In the U.S. its a part of the constitution :)

[ShatteredWings]

In the U.S. its a part of the constitution :)
prohabition was part of our constitutin as well

[Amnesiac]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_nationality_law#Australian_Citizenship_by_Descent

I stand corrected.

Often if a child is born in America to non-American parents who were here legally they will have dual citizenship. Actress Nicole Kidman is an example. She was born in America to Australian parents and moved back t Australia as a young child and she has dual citizenship. many countries give citizenship to children who are born overseas to their citizens so the problems you mention will not always happen.

But that raises a question: do you want to be considered American, even half American, just because you were born in America? And that's where the debate restarts again.

[Disco Jones]

prohabition was part of our constitutin as well

yes that's the difference between "was" and "is"

[Sith Lord 13]

yes that's the difference between "was" and "is"

And the discussion here is whether or not we should change the constitution, so saying it's part of the constitution isn't much of an argument.

[Disco Jones]

What does changing it accomplish? What is the ultimate goal? The point of the 14th amendment's citizenship clause is to avoid the kind of wishy-washy legal status BS for children of immigrants and former slaves. If you are born in the US, you are a US citizen.

[Sith Lord 13]

What does changing it accomplish? What is the ultimate goal? The point of the 14th amendment's citizenship clause is to avoid the kind of wishy-washy legal status BS for children of immigrants and former slaves. If you are born in the US, you are a US citizen.

Why? Why does your parents breaking the law give you citizenship?

[Ender]

Why? Why does your parents breaking the law give you citizenship?

Why should you be held responsible for your parents actions?

[Disco Jones]

Why? Why does your parents breaking the law give you citizenship?

You don't gain citizenship because your parents are illegal immigrants, you gain citizenship because you were born in the United States. That somebody born and raised on American soil would be considered foreign or less than a citizen is ridiculous, hence the 14th amendment.

[Church]

Personally I dont think so cause first illegal immigrants are criminals so they shouldn't be here in first place. And most them just do it to help secure a stay here. I know sometimes they do it so their children can have a better life but thats not always the case.

[Perseus]

Personally I dont think so cause first illegal immigrants are criminals so they shouldn't be here in first place. And most them just do it to help secure a stay here. I know sometimes they do it so their children can have a better life but thats not always the case.

This whole anchor babies argument takes at least eighteen years to actually work in their favor, so it is a dumb argument.

[Ender]

Personally I dont think so cause first illegal immigrants are criminals so they shouldn't be here in first place. And most them just do it to help secure a stay here. I know sometimes they do it so their children can have a better life but thats not always the case.

Check below....

Why should you be held responsible for your parents actions?

[Sith Lord 13]

Why should you be held responsible for your parents actions?

Exactly. You'd be being held accountable for your parents actions by being given citizenship. I'm not saying it should count against them when they apply for citizenship, but rather that having them made citizens because their parents broke the law is unfair to those who do it the legal way.

[Shortkid]

Yes, anyone born in this country should be considered a citizen. This whole deal about illegal immigraton strikes me as an "us vs. them" kinda thing. Like, I'm in the club and you cant come in! I think I got past that stage in kindergarten.

[Disco Jones]

Exactly. You'd be being held accountable for your parents actions by being given citizenship. I'm not saying it should count against them when they apply for citizenship, but rather that having them made citizens because their parents broke the law is unfair to those who do it the legal way.

you gain citizenship as a direct result of being born in the US, not as a result of your parents being illegal immigrants. Your parents' status as illegal immigrants is irrelevant to your status as a US citizen, because your status as a US citizen is based entirely on whether or not you were born in the US.

in any other situation, as long as you were born in the US, you would be considered a US citizen. You are saying that if a person is born in the US, but their parents are illegal immigrants, that person born in the US should not be considered a US citizen.

[Sith Lord 13]

you gain citizenship as a direct result of being born in the US, not as a result of your parents being illegal immigrants. Your parents' status as illegal immigrants is irrelevant to your status as a US citizen, because your status as a US citizen is based entirely on whether or not you were born in the US.

in any other situation, as long as you were born in the US, you would be considered a US citizen. You are saying that if a person is born in the US, but their parents are illegal immigrants, that person born in the US should not be considered a US citizen.

I'm saying if I steal a million dollars, and then give it to you, even if you didn't know it was stolen, you still have to give it back. You should never benefit from either your own or another person's crime.

[Disco Jones]

I don't understand how the kid's parents being born outside of the US overrides her being born in the US. If you found out today that your parents were illegal immigrants, why should you lose your citizenship despite being born and raised on American soil?

[Sith Lord 13]

Because I shouldn't benefit from my parents breaking the law. Now of course, if one has reached the age of 18, I believe they should be able to apply for citizenship if they would otherwise be deported with their parents, but being considered a full natural born citizen? No. We need to decrease the incentives for illegal immigration and encourage more people to do it the legal way. This would be one way to do it.

[Disco Jones]

But shouldn't you benefit from being born in the US? Why should the benefits of citizenship, which you rightly earned by being born in the US, be taken away because of where your parents were born?

If your parents were both serial killers and you were born in the US, you would be considered a full citizen, wouldn't you?

[Sith Lord 13]

But shouldn't you benefit from being born in the US? Why should the benefits of citizenship, which you rightly earned by being born in the US, be taken away because of where your parents were born?

If your parents were both serial killers and you were born in the US, you would be considered a full citizen, wouldn't you?

1) Nothing is being taken away, it's just not being given. 2) Why should someone benefit from someone else breaking the law?

[Perseus]

Because I shouldn't benefit from my parents breaking the law. Now of course, if one has reached the age of 18, I believe they should be able to apply for citizenship if they would otherwise be deported with their parents, but being considered a full natural born citizen? No. We need to decrease the incentives for illegal immigration and encourage more people to do it the legal way. This would be one way to do it.

Becoming a citizen in the U.S. is very difficult because only like thirty thousand people each year are allowed to be granted the right to try and become a citizen.

[Sith Lord 13]

Becoming a citizen in the U.S. is very difficult because only like thirty thousand people each year are allowed to be granted the right to try and become a citizen.

Less illegal immigration and more deportation would allow that number to be increased.

[huginnmuninn]

they should be granted citizenship but their parents should be deported and should never be allowed to apply for citizenship

[Perseus]

Less illegal immigration and more deportation would allow that number to be increased.
I don't think that would really change anything.
they should be granted citizenship but their parents should be deported and should never be allowed to apply for citizenship

Well, the child is now without parents. Might as well deport the child with their parents.

[huginnmuninn]

Well, the child is now without parents. Might as well deport the child with their parents.

it would prevent some illegal immigrants from coming over here to have babies and if the parents thought it would be better for the child to live here then they can give up their baby

[dead]

I don't think that would really change anything.


Well, the child is now without parents. Might as well deport the child with their parents.

It happens all the time and it just recently has become a somewhat of a conflict. Conflict being the idea that the children should stay with there parents.

[Amnesiac]

it would prevent some illegal immigrants from coming over here to have babies and if the parents thought it would be better for the child to live here then they can give up their baby

That's the same as the argument "if we make drugs illegal, people will stop doing drugs out of fear!" No, they won't. Illegals will keep coming over here because, even though they have to live carefully, it's still better for them and their children to be raised in the United States.

There is no way we're going to separate kids from their parents just because they came here illegally. The entire family goes or none of them.

[The Dark Lord]

Yes, anyone born in this country should be considered a citizen. This whole deal about illegal immigraton strikes me as an "us vs. them" kinda thing. Like, I'm in the club and you cant come in! I think I got past that stage in kindergarten.

I think you are underestimating the effects of immigration, it is a little more complicated than playground politics. Immigrants, in Britain, cost the health service and the taxpayer billions of pounds a year. Immigrantion should be much tighter regulated and for that reason children of illegal immigrants should be sent home with their family

[Disco Jones]

If the child born in the US is also considered an illegal alien, and marries another person like her, are that child's children also illegal aliens? What sense is there in a 2nd-generation American-born not being considered a citizen?

[Perseus]

it would prevent some illegal immigrants from coming over here to have babies and if the parents thought it would be better for the child to live here then they can give up their baby

How so? Orphanages and junk are not the best way to live. I'm pretty sure the child would rather live with their parents'.

You people portray illegal immigrants as evil masterminds who come hear to have children so they can raise an army and over through the government. They come here to have a better life, and sometimes they have children.