Darnell and Me <3

[SapphireDragon13]

Darnell and Me <3
By: Jenelle

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii100/FirestarOfDarkness13/EoskandKitsune.jpg

So ummm... This is just another random picture. I'd like any comment/criticism that anyone has, thanks!

~Jenelle

Drawn with:
-Pencil
-Faber-Castell Inking Pens
-Copic Ciao Markers

Edited with:
-Corel Photo-Paint X3

P.S. The overall proportions are a little off, and his position looks kind of awkward, because the leg in the back is sort of supposed to be bent and farther back than the other, but it ends up looking too small and out of place... =/ In general I only tried putting effort into the colouring of the hair, tail/ears, and eyes, so the rest is sort of lacking in depth...

EDIT: I did what I could to fix it... Lol.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii100/FirestarOfDarkness13/DarnellandJenelle2.jpg

[Ghost_Hunter]

I like it. The coloring on the fox tail doesn't look quite right to me though because all the other colors are dark. I think if it was a darker shade then it would be fine.

[Ghost_Hunter]

*Double post >_<*

[SapphireDragon13]

I like it. The coloring on the fox tail doesn't look quite right to me though because all the other colors are dark. I think if it was a darker shade then it would be fine.

Hmm... I can see how the tail might be too bright, but I wanted it to be brighter so that it would stand out more against the rest of the picture. Thanks for the comment! :)

~Jenelle

[AutumnDae]

So, I'm going to start off by saying I have no prior experience, I can't even draw stick figures, but I like this picture a lot, haha.

I think everything looks great! (Not to mention a hell of a lot better than I could ever dream of doing.)

However, maybe it's because her arm is raised, but it seems like her right breast (her right, our left.) looks a bit bigger than the other one.

Maybe it's because of the angle she's standing at though....I don't really know. Ignore me. :P

[SapphireDragon13]

So, I'm going to start off by saying I have no prior experience, I can't even draw stick figures, but I like this picture a lot, haha.

I think everything looks great! (Not to mention a hell of a lot better than I could ever dream of doing.)

However, maybe it's because her arm is raised, but it seems like her right breast (her right, our left.) looks a bit bigger than the other one.

Maybe it's because of the angle she's standing at though....I don't really know. Ignore me. :P

Hmmm... I think I might have messed up a little with that--Though it is mostly because of the angle. Lol. Thanks for the comment! :)

~Jenelle

[darkwoon]

mhmhmh...

- The man's head proportions seem off - it looks as if the top of the head, above his eyes, is too high and round. Eyebrows aren't aligned with the eye's axis, and are a bit too high on the forehead;

- His jacket collar does not appear to be supported by the back of his shoulders/neck. Given his standing position, this is unlikely to happen, in my opinion;

- His head/body proportion is off. Typically, a man is between 7 and 8 heads tall. This is an issue here, because it makes the arms appear too short;

- His left arm (the half-hidden one) lacks volume and seems to form an awkward angle. Part of it is caused by the shadows that project on it as if on a flat surface;

- The kitsune's raised arm seems to have strange proportions - the 'upper' part of it (between the elbow and the shoulder) is too short, and the 'lower' part (hand-elbow) is too long. Moreover, the 'lower' part is too "straight", lacking curves and some thickness;

- Her boobs show inconsistent volume: her left one is nearly flat and seems squished by the dress, while the right one is much rounder. Also, since she's extending her right arm, this would tend to move her right one outwards, while the picture shows it turned inwards;

- Her left foot, seen in profile, is too big. She's a good half-head (and probably more) smaller than him, yet her foot is larger. Although it is not technically impossible, it is quite certainly not sexy ;) ;

- Her tail, when it is passing between his leg and her dress, does not seem to have enough thickness. A good idea would be to instead pass the tail around him, in his back, as passing it in his front would be uncomfortable for both characters.

A nice picture overall, with very good expressions and a pose that is far from trivial to properly represent. Revising it to solve some of its issues would certainly be worth the work.

Hope this helps!

[SapphireDragon13]

looks very good..I like it. and the tail is divertive.

Thank you for the comment! .... Yeah... I'll have to fix the tail, lots of people have issues with it. Lol. :P

~Jenelle

[SapphireDragon13]

mhmhmh...

- The man's head proportions seem off - it looks as if the top of the head, above his eyes, is too high and round. Eyebrows aren't aligned with the eye's axis, and are a bit too high on the forehead;

- His jacket collar does not appear to be supported by the back of his shoulders/neck. Given his standing position, this is unlikely to happen, in my opinion;

- His head/body proportion is off. Typically, a man is between 7 and 8 heads tall. This is an issue here, because it makes the arms appear too short;

- His left arm (the half-hidden one) lacks volume and seems to form an awkward angle. Part of it is caused by the shadows that project on it as if on a flat surface;

- The kitsune's raised arm seems to have strange proportions - the 'upper' part of it (between the elbow and the shoulder) is too short, and the 'lower' part (hand-elbow) is too long. Moreover, the 'lower' part is too "straight", lacking curves and some thickness;

- Her boobs show inconsistent volume: her left one is nearly flat and seems squished by the dress, while the right one is much rounder. Also, since she's extending her right arm, this would tend to move her right one outwards, while the picture shows it turned inwards;

- Her left foot, seen in profile, is too big. She's a good half-head (and probably more) smaller than him, yet her foot is larger. Although it is not technically impossible, it is quite certainly not sexy ;) ;

- Her tail, when it is passing between his leg and her dress, does not seem to have enough thickness. A good idea would be to instead pass the tail around him, in his back, as passing it in his front would be uncomfortable for both characters.

A nice picture overall, with very good expressions and a pose that is far from trivial to properly represent. Revising it to solve some of its issues would certainly be worth the work.

Hope this helps!

Hmm... I did what I could to fix it on the computer... As for the problems with proportions... err... I'm slightly disproportional sooo yah.... and, his hair is sort of poofy, which makes it look awkward in the picture, because the top of the head appears too big. Lol, and it doesn't help much that his head in the picture is angled slightly downward, thus, more of the top of the head is visible... Anyways, thanks for the support :)

~Jenelle

[darkwoon]

Hmm... I did what I could to fix it on the computer...
Oh, I was actually thinking of the more "old-fashioned" way to fix things: use a lightbox (or a window with sunlight behind) to copy the drawing lines on another paper sheet, and work on that new sketch. Or, the semi-old-fashioned way, that is to cover areas to fix with a piece of paper, redraw on it, and scan the original drawing with correction patches applied. I really don't like to completely redraw a pencil work either :P.

As for the problems with proportions... err... I'm slightly disproportional sooo yah....
Well, you can be disproportional - a lot of manga characters actually are - as long as it is not noticeable. That's why I didn't comment the lady's head/body ratio: it is not realistic, yet executed in a way that doesn't make it easy to spot. If it looks right, then it is right (and, similarly, if it looks wrong, it is wrong, even if the ruler tells you it should be correct). Always start on an academically correct base, then tweak the proportions if the picture seem to request that.

If you really want to invest yourself in drawing, consider using models. (No, not the chip'n'dale kind, though you're free to pick whatever you have... :)). Four model sources you can have access for cheap:
- Yourself, using a mirror and/or a digital camera;
- Friends, again with the digital camera as an option;
- Stock pictures found on the net: deviantArt is full of people taking pictures of themselves in all kinds of poses, just to serve as free references for other artists. And of course, searches through Google Images gives plenty of material to play with;
- Computerized models: Daz Studio is a free posing/rendering software - it is invaluable when you are hesitant with proportions or difficult perspective. There is also Poser, but that one costs money, and I'm not sure if it is better.
I find myself models very useful for clothes folds or difficult perspective, like strong foreshorting effects.

his hair is sort of poofy, which makes it look awkward in the picture, because the top of the head appears too big.
Yep, this is probably too poofy to be honest, so to speak :D. Conside getting him a better hairdresser :P.

Lol, and it doesn't help much that his head in the picture is angled slightly downward, thus, more of the top of the head is visible...
Arrh... If turning the head downward was your intend, then you didn't properly render that: the eyeline is horizontal, the eye/nose/mouth distance is one of a "straight" view, and the median line of the face, noted by the root of the nose and its upper lip attach point, is vertical.

To turn the head downward, the median line needs to form an angle with the vertical. You also need to reduce the eye/nose/mouth distances - the more the head is angled, the smaller those distances become. Don't forget that the whole skull moves, and not just the face, so you also have to tilt the jawline and the hairlines.

Given all what is required to make a head appear tilted, it is probably much easier to consider giving him a haircut and just say the head is straight ;).

Anyways, thanks for the support :)
You show dedication, that I find much more important than "talent", so I find important to try to help you as much as possible.

Keep up with the good work!

[SapphireDragon13]

Oh, I was actually thinking of the more "old-fashioned" way to fix things: use a lightbox (or a window with sunlight behind) to copy the drawing lines on another paper sheet, and work on that new sketch. Or, the semi-old-fashioned way, that is to cover areas to fix with a piece of paper, redraw on it, and scan the original drawing with correction patches applied. I really don't like to completely redraw a pencil work either :P.

Lol, yeah, that would work, too, but given the circumstances, technology came to the rescue and made it all easier.

Well, you can be disproportional - a lot of manga characters actually are - as long as it is not noticeable. That's why I didn't comment the lady's head/body ratio: it is not realistic, yet executed in a way that doesn't make it easy to spot. If it [i]looks right, then it is right (and, similarly, if it looks wrong, it is wrong, even if the ruler tells you it should be correct). Always start on an academically correct base, then tweak the proportions if the picture seem to request that.

Lol, I meant I, as a person, am disproportional... My arms/legs are slightly too long in comparison to the length of my torso... Anyways, I agree with what you said here. :)

If you really want to invest yourself in drawing, consider using models. (No, not the chip'n'dale kind, though you're free to pick whatever you have... :)). Four model sources you can have access for cheap:
- Yourself, using a mirror and/or a digital camera;
- Friends, again with the digital camera as an option;
- Stock pictures found on the net: deviantArt is full of people taking pictures of themselves in all kinds of poses, just to serve as free references for other artists. And of course, searches through Google Images gives plenty of material to play with;
- Computerized models: Daz Studio is a free posing/rendering software - it is invaluable when you are hesitant with proportions or difficult perspective. There is also Poser, but that one costs money, and I'm not sure if it is better.
I find myself models very useful for clothes folds or difficult perspective, like strong foreshorting effects.

To be honest, I have a model--one of those wooden ones that you can change the pose with, but I don't really like using it, because given the nature of how it's made, it doesn't always like to bend the way I want it to. It's too rigid in comparison to how a body will actually bend and move.

Yep, this is probably too poofy to be honest, so to speak :D. Conside getting him a better hairdresser :P.

Lol, I completely agree with that--By the way, if you saw a picture of him, you'd know exactly what I mean...

Arrh... If turning the head downward was your intend, then you didn't properly render that: the eyeline is horizontal, the eye/nose/mouth distance is one of a "straight" view, and the median line of the face, noted by the root of the nose and its upper lip attach point, is vertical.

Yeah, I see what you mean... His face does look kind of awkward in this picture.

To turn the head downward, the median line needs to form an angle with the vertical. You also need to reduce the eye/nose/mouth distances - the more the head is angled, the smaller those distances become. Don't forget that the whole skull moves, and not just the face, so you also have to tilt the jawline and the hairlines.

I understand this concept, lol, I'm just not very good at doing it correctly. :(

Given all what is required to make a head appear tilted, it is probably much easier to consider giving him a haircut and just say the head is straight ;).

Lol :P

You show dedication, that I find much more important than "talent", so I find important to try to help you as much as possible.

Thanks for being so supportive! :)

Keep up with the good work!

Thanks! :P

~Jenelle

[darkwoon]

Lol, yeah, that would work, too, but given the circumstances, technology came to the rescue and made it all easier. [I used a tablet and redrew the part of his leg that the tail was previously in front of and cut/pasted her left foot and re-sized it--using a light box would have taken hours to correct the drawing, because I take forever to colour things...]
Yeah, indeed, a tablet is a huge help, I just didn't know you had one :). We should draw someday together with a paintchat ! :).

To be honest, I have a model--one of those wooden ones that you can change the pose with, but I don't really like using it, because given the nature of how it's made, it doesn't always like to bend the way I want it to. It's too rigid in comparison to how a body will actually bend and move.
Yeah, I don't like those either - they are indeed too rigid for my tastes. They can be used for a couple things, but I find them less practical than photographic or computerized references.

I understand this concept, lol, I'm just not very good at doing it correctly. :(
Welcome to the club :D.

The tail looks better on the new picture BTW :).

[SimplyTom]

Looks great just change the tail and your sorted

[SapphireDragon13]

Yeah, indeed, a tablet is a huge help, I just didn't know you had one :). We should draw someday together with a paintchat ! :).

Paintchat? Lol, I don't know what that is, but it sounds fun. :P

Yeah, I don't like those either - they are indeed too rigid for my tastes. They can be used for a couple things, but I find them less practical than photographic or computerized references.

How can I find computerized references? ... Or do you just mean the photographs of people that you mentioned earlier...? :confused:

Welcome to the club :D.

Lol. :P

The tail looks better on the new picture BTW :).

Thank you! ^_^

~Jenelle

Looks great just change the tail and your sorted

Thanks! :)

~Jenelle

[darkwoon]

Paintchat? Lol, I don't know what that is, but it sounds fun. :P
Painting+chatting=Paintchat. Those are software allowing several people to work at the same time on a picture and chat. You have three kinds:
- When everybody agrees on a day and meets first by other ways (MSN & friends), and one of the participant hosts the drawing session for the duration of the session only. That's what people usually do when using OpenCanvas;
- There are public paintchat rooms available here and there, where people can freely join. The drawing area is usually reset at predefined time (like midnight). You've an example of such public place here (http://www.rosanbo.com/paintchat/);
- There are a few infinite drawing boards available. The best is probably WebCanvas (http://www.webcanvas.com). It has no chat facility per se, but you can of course write on the drawing surface what you want to say.

Of the three, I tend to prefer the 1st, as OC has more drawing capabilities than the other two options. Plus it is easier to store the picture and finish it alone later.

Drop me a line in PM if you're interested to try, I'm free Wednesday and Thursday.

How can I find computerized references? ... Or do you just mean the photographs of people that you mentioned earlier...? :confused:
I meant character poses created in 3D renderers like DazStudio or Poser. But of course, photographs are just as great :).

[SapphireDragon13]

Painting+chatting=Paintchat. Those are software allowing several people to work at the same time on a picture and chat. You have three kinds:
- When everybody agrees on a day and meets first by other ways (MSN & friends), and one of the participant hosts the drawing session for the duration of the session only. That's what people usually do when using OpenCanvas;
- There are public paintchat rooms available here and there, where people can freely join. The drawing area is usually reset at predefined time (like midnight). You've an example of such public place here (http://www.rosanbo.com/paintchat/);
- There are a few infinite drawing boards available. The best is probably WebCanvas (http://www.webcanvas.com). It has no chat facility per se, but you can of course write on the drawing surface what you want to say.

Of the three, I tend to prefer the 1st, as OC has more drawing capabilities than the other two options. Plus it is easier to store the picture and finish it alone later.

Drop me a line in PM if you're interested to try, I'm free Wednesday and Thursday.


I meant character poses created in 3D renderers like DazStudio or Poser. But of course, photographs are just as great :).

Ohh okay! :) Thank you! Also, if I'm not busy I think it would be very interesting to paintchat with you in the future. :P

~Jenelle

[Jennifer's Ashes]

I think that her boobs are a bit of an issue. Assuming the light source is on our right, there would not be any shadows to that side of her right breast. In that respect, I prefer the edit. If I were editing the picture, I would have taken that crescent shaped shadow, began on the right hand end, and removed it until only 1/3 of the way down. Other than that, I think the drawing is excellent and I breathy admire your work :)

[Jennifer's Ashes]

Haha that 'breathy' is supposed to be 'greatly' I swear my keyboard is purposely trying to make me mad.

[Dorsum Oppel]

It's uncreative.

[SapphireDragon13]

I think that her boobs are a bit of an issue. Assuming the light source is on our right, there would not be any shadows to that side of her right breast. In that respect, I prefer the edit. If I were editing the picture, I would have taken that crescent shaped shadow, began on the right hand end, and removed it until only 1/3 of the way down. Other than that, I think the drawing is excellent and I breathy admire your work :)

I mentioned previously in the original post that my shading was majorly lacking because I only put effort into colouring the hair, eyes, and fox's tail... Anyways, thank you for the comment! :)

~Jenelle

It's uncreative.

It wasn't meant to be creative--just working on colouring hair, eyes, and fur.... That's all.

~Jenelle