Religion

[The Joker]

^I think I understand it just fine.

[Gopher]

i dont care for religion, i respect all people for what they believe and will not try to convinve them otherwise, although i do think that religion is a prime factor in the majority if not all of the wars in history, isnt that odd?

[Sage]

i respect all people for what they believe and will not try to convinve them otherwise,

What if someones' beliefs are directly responsible for leading them to make poor life decisions?

[mxrider155]

I do believe in God, and some aspects of Christianity, but what I don't get is if we have free will, and we have to make our own decisions, then why are we, for example, supposed to attend a church every Sunday? I believe that there is a God to worship, but that that should be done in your own way, whichever way you believe is right. I also understand what other religions believe, and why there are other religions.

[Sage]

I believe that there is a God to worship,

Why does god have to be worshipped?

[Vonn]

I believe in God. That's it.

Everything else is unnecessary, imo.

[Sage]

I believe in God. That's it.

Everything else is unnecessary, imo.

So belief is necessary? For what?

[Vonn]

Okay, I didn't mean that. :P I'm just saying I think that there could be a higher power, but other than that, it's not really a big deal.

[Magus]

Why does god have to be worshipped?
I asked the same question to my very-religious classmate. Why should I worship Allah?

He responded: There are three levels of why we worship him. The 3rd, people worship him out of fear of his punishment; the 2nd, people worship him for his heaven; the 1st and foremost, people worship him because he deserves worship, and worship him to glorify and to exalt him - this is the best form of worship.

I know you can crack this silly logic. Post it please, if you don't mind sharing it.

[deadpie]

I asked the same question to my very-religious classmate. Why should I worship Allah?

He responded: There are three levels of why we worship him. The 3rd, people worship him out of fear of his punishment; the 2nd, people worship him for his heaven; the 1st and foremost, people worship him because he deserves worship, and worship him to glorify and to exalt him - this is the best form of worship.

I know you can crack this silly logic. Post it please, if you don't mind sharing it.

The first and second reasons are selfish IMO. Believing in a higher power because you don't want to burn in flames or live eternity being tortured is pathetic. Why would you even believe in such a great being if he's going to do so much horrible shit to others in the end? I mean, the "God accepts everyone" thing is complete bullshit in the instance of hell.

Then of course there's people believing in a religion so they can get to pass those shiny gates of never ending boring peace and happiness, while Grandma might be roasting in hell for eternity because she forgot to confess about the time she had sex before getting married.

And why does a God need to be reminded that he did a good job creating the universe? Does he really need to punish people if they aren't reminded he did a good job? I mean, what's the big importance out of it? I don't see him gaining any self confidence from having a bunch of people pray to him. He's God, I don't think self confidence is that important to him. Unless he really is a selfish and needy God, which I'm guessing he is.

[Magus]

And why does a God need to be reminded that he did a good job creating the universe? Does he really need to punish people if they aren't reminded he did a good job? I mean, what's the big importance out of it? I don't see him gaining any self confidence from having a bunch of people pray to him. He's God, I don't think self confidence is that important to him. Unless he really is a selfish and needy God, which I'm guessing he is.
I said the same thing. If he is Grand and God of the world, then he doesn't need some puny creatures that she 'created' so that they can feed his ego.

He made Angels that tirelessly pray him, fine; but then he made Human with free will, so that he can pick those who bomb themselves in his name to heaven and those who did not believed yet did a lot to humanity to hell?

Islam, to me, is getting sillier every day. Though, not as silly as the other 2 Abrahamic religions, which are hilarious religions, in my opinion.

Sorry my religious buds, but this is my view on religion now-a-days.

[closed]

i believe in certain sort of wicca. i believe that there are divine forces, but they are many, and less appeal to the "god" stereotype.

[deadpie]

I just finished watching a documentary called Religulous and Bill Maher says something really interesting that I think everyone should read. I'll share it below and you can debate it if you want to, but I have to agree with what he says in this -

The irony of religion is that because of its power to divert man to destructive courses, the world could actually come to an end. The plain fact is, religion must die for mankind to live. The hour is getting very late to be able to indulge in having in key decisions made by religious people. By irrationalists, by those who would steer the ship of state not by a compass, but by the equivalent of reading the entrails of a chicken. George Bush prayed a lot about Iraq, but he didn't learn a lot about it. Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking. It's nothing to brag about. And those who preach faith, and enable and elevate it are intellectual slaveholders, keeping mankind in a bondage to fantasy and nonsense that has spawned and justified so much lunacy and destruction. Religion is dangerous because it allows human beings who don't have all the answers to think that they do. Most people would think it's wonderful when someone says, "I'm willing, Lord! I'll do whatever you want me to do!" Except that since there are no gods actually talking to us, that void is filled in by people with their own corruptions and limitations and agendas. And anyone who tells you they know, they just know what happens when you die, I promise you, you don't. How can I be so sure? Because I don't know, and you do not possess mental powers that I do not. The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the big questions is not the arrogant certitude that is the hallmark of religion, but doubt. Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting shit dead wrong. This is why rational people, anti-religionists, must end their timidity and come out of the closet and assert themselves. And those who consider themselves only moderately religious really need to look in the mirror and realize that the solace and comfort that religion brings you actually comes at a terrible price. If you belonged to a political party or a social club that was tied to as much bigotry, misogyny, homophobia, violence, and sheer ignorance as religion is, you'd resign in protest. To do otherwise is to be an enabler, a mafia wife, for the true devils of extremism that draw their legitimacy from the billions of their fellow travelers. If the world does come to an end here, or wherever, or if it limps into the future, decimated by the effects of religion-inspired nuclear terrorism, let's remember what the real problem was that we learned how to precipitate mass death before we got past the neurological disorder of wishing for it. That's it. Grow up or die.

[Amnesiac]

I just finished watching a documentary called Religulous and Bill Maher says something really interesting that I think everyone should read. I'll share it below and you can debate it if you want to, but I have to agree with what he says in this -

Religulous is a great documentary; I couldn't agree more with what Maher said at the end. Religion is outdated, and the so-called "morals" it has gifted society with do come at a very bad price indeed. The wars and discrimination that religion has caused outweigh the set of values it has created, which are no longer necessary in a modern world where humans are capable of making the right decisions without the guidance of some conspicuous book.

[The Joker]

When I watched Religulous, it was pretty much the last nail in the coffin of my life as a Christian.

[believer]

god is real,were do you think you come frome monkeys?,thats bs if you believe in evolution you should kno that everything that evolves it changes into something else right?,so if monkeys ivolved into human why are they still monkeys on earth they would have disappeared if they ivolved,all i kno is that god made me.

and let me tell you something there whas allways free will thats why god gave adam and eve a choise to do what they wanted follow him and live forever or follow the devil and burn for eternity,but your brain is too small to believe whats true,you believe only what you see,but thats the test god gives you to see how mutch faith you really have.

[Amnesiac]

god is real,were do you think you come frome monkeys?,thats bs if you believe in evolution you should kno that everything that evolves it changes into something else right?,so if monkeys ivolved into human why are they still monkeys on earth they would have disappeared if they ivolved,all i kno is that god made me.

and let me tell you something there whas allways free will thats why god gave adam and eve a choise to do what they wanted follow him and live forever or follow the devil and burn for eternity,but your brain is too small to believe whats true,you believe only what you see,but thats the test god gives you to see how mutch faith you really have.

...

1. You don't understand the theory of evolution. That is NOT how it works, you are badly mistaken. Inb4 "it's just a theory", if you say that, you don't understand the definition of "scientific theory" either.

2. The free will argument is baseless. It's an excuse, used to make it impossible to disprove God. Why would God create people who disobey him? He's obviously so self-centered that he wants everyone to, so why let people sin? It doesn't make any sense, it's all a man-made story from 2,000 years ago designed to gain power and influence.

[Peace God]

god is real,were do you think you come frome monkeys?,thats bs if you believe in evolution you should kno that everything that evolves it changes into something else right?,so if monkeys ivolved into human why are they still monkeys on earth they would have disappeared if they ivolved.
please learn about the thoery that you're trying to disprove
we didnt evolve from monkeys...we simply shared a common ancestor millions of years ago

and let me tell you something there whas allways free will thats why god gave adam and eve a choise to do what they wanted follow him and live forever or follow the devil and burn for eternity.
how is that free will? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUtSM2oVy_E)

[deadpie]

god is real,were do you think you come frome monkeys?


http://images2.memegenerator.net/Denial-Bible/ImageMacro/3029238/This-book-is-legit-It-says-so-right-in-it.jpg


Let me think which one sound more believable:

We evolved from apes or we were created from dirt.

Living in a whale for a couple days sound reasonable too! Ha ha, No.

[Magus]

We evolved from apes or we were created from dirt.

Living in a whale for a couple days sound reasonable too! Ha ha, No.
=Devil's advocate=

Man, Evolutionism is a satanic religion made by devil worshipers! Like Al-Jahiz, a Muslim!(Yes, from the same false cult of death and murder!) who first postulated natural selection! Evolution is false!!!!!111 God created earth and its inhabitants in 6 days only!

Jonah was alive because of God's interventions!!! HOW COULD YOU DENY THIS!!!!!!1111

May God bless your soul.

[Apparitions]

When I watched Religulous, it was pretty much the last nail in the coffin of my life as a Christian.
I downloaded and watched this last night, it is a very well made and thought provoking documentary. I'd very highly recommend watching the first Zeitgeist as well. It's free to download from its website, I think. That's a very interesting film as well.

[Jess]

god is real,were do you think you come frome monkeys?,thats bs if you believe in evolution you should kno that everything that evolves it changes into something else right?,so if monkeys ivolved into human why are they still monkeys on earth they would have disappeared if they ivolved,all i kno is that god made me.

and let me tell you something there whas allways free will thats why god gave adam and eve a choise to do what they wanted follow him and live forever or follow the devil and burn for eternity,but your brain is too small to believe whats true,you believe only what you see,but thats the test god gives you to see how mutch faith you really have.

this doesn't prove God is real. who created God? And how is that free will? This means you can choose not to follow God, but if you don't you'll be punished? You call that FREE WILL?

[Andrew0017]

god is real,were do you think you come frome monkeys?,thats bs if you believe in evolution you should kno that everything that evolves it changes into something else right?,so if monkeys ivolved into human why are they still monkeys on earth they would have disappeared if they ivolved,all i kno is that god made me.
.

I'm a Christian, but I just want to point out that Charles Darwin didn't actually say we evolved from monkeys. That is a common misconception. What he really meant was that humans and monkeys are believed to have shared a common ancestor. (Look it up on any scientific website if you don't believe me.)
Science and religion can go hand in hand if used correctly. One isn't supposed to overpower the other. http://www.leaderu.com/science/helweg.html
Feel free to call me a hypocrite and basically make a spectacle of yourself after I make this statement...I believe in God and evolution. It's very ignorant to say that evolution didn't occur. There's proof of it all around us. But what I believe is that God created everything initially, and different species evolved on their own after that.
(My dad is very good friends with a Catholic priest who also shares the same opinion on this that I do. For the record, he doesn't believe that whole "Adam and Eve" story and neither do I. It just doesn't make sense.)

[The Joker]

^That was always my belief when I was a Christian.

[Amnesiac]

I believe in God and evolution. It's very ignorant to say that evolution didn't occur. There's proof of it all around us.

I concur, and will drive this statement home by saying that evolution is an observable process. Take, for example, the evolution of a new species of mosquito in the London Underground over its history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_mosquito). It isn't just ignorant to say evolution isn't real, it's idiotic.

Evolution is a fact. It is an undisputed fact that organisms evolve over time. However, the explanation of how this process occurs is theory (scientific theory), here defined as:

...a scientific theory comprises a collection of concepts, including abstractions of observable phenomena expressed as quantifiable properties, together with rules (called scientific laws) that express relationships between observations of such concepts. A scientific theory is constructed to conform to available empirical data about such observations, and is put forth as a principle or body of principles for explaining a class of phenomena.

Therefore, scientific theory is the set of rules and observations that support a "fact". Evolutionary theory is the collection of research and observations that "backs up" evolution, the fact.

[Korashk]

:D Yeah I know but you would think people would maybe, just maybe try and find out what it is about. Genuine question to Satanists and people that know about LaVeyan Satanism: why is it actually called Satanism?

One big reason was to piss off Christians. Seriously.

I'm also a Satanist except for I view the magic aspect of it in a more symbolic than literal sense.

[Death]

I thought the following video to be fairly interesting. Although it may be partially true, I wouldn't say that many people would actually follow that. Anyway, what do you think about this when relating to the Bible (just trying to bring some discussion back to this topic)?

aUtSM2oVy_E

[aussiecasper]

I have been raised as a catholic for my entire life. i have gone and still go to a catholic school and been fully confirmed into this faith. but i don't belive in all of these teachings and ways.

i tend to have a more universal(haha ya catholic church was not universal enough for me) and agnostic view of religion.i reall really hate orginized religion. it really does not bring anything to this world. they say it brings a sence of comunity and the like. but it is comunity though seperation. your this religion, he is part of this parish, they are this sect. it is counter-intuitive to me. plus all of these religions have the same basic beliefs and principals(bar a few extreme ones) so it is arbitray to seperate us, just to belive in the same natrual law that is the basic foundation of any religion. and we all worship this "god" or "gods" which is another arbitray tradition, since 3 4ths of the world belives in this God of abraham. so who is to say its name is God or Yahweh or Allah or wagguru or anything eles.

if everybody would drop their selfish ways and lived the basic law of and im going to make reference to jesus teaching, Love your neighbor as you self, then we would have no need for religion which has caused nothing but wars, and a lust for power, and presecution. all of which have left a trail of blood though the ages. but people are to stuborn to change, its the other side of the double edge sword of natral law. people may change but the world never does.

haha so if you just read all of that good for you and thanks. feel free to chew my ear of with you religious mubo-jumbo in response haha

[Death]

Now that's one response I never expected. Still, you're right. How many Christians are truly Christ-like in today's world?

[ray8806]

I'm Catholic too.

To me, I don't care what you are, how you were raised, or what you believe. As long as you don't force your beliefs on me or insult my faith when I'm there, I have no problem with you.

I like what the guy above me said. Not many people in this world are actually Christ-like. Last time I checked, Jesus never shoved religion down anyone's throats. Why should we? Well, we simply shouldn't. But it happens all the time.

I mean, just do whatever you want to do with your whole heart. In my faith, some of those things might not be 'right', but that's MY faith. Not necessarily yours, so I'm not going to say anything about it.

Christians need to stop bashing other Christians, and same goes to other people of other faiths toward one another. Also to Christians to people of other faiths and visa versa. We all need to realize that we all have different beliefs and respect that.

[aussiecasper]

I thought the following video to be fairly interesting. Although it may be partially true, I wouldn't say that many people would actually follow that. Anyway, what do you think about this when relating to the Bible (just trying to bring some discussion back to this topic)?

aUtSM2oVy_E

DOUBLE POST!!!!! ya i know but these videos are awesome. just saying. i made my theology teachers head explode last week with these videos. he was tring so hard to refute everything that i said but he just couldn't. awesomeness hahaha

[Death]

To me, I don't care what you are, how you were raised, or what you believe. As long as you don't force your beliefs on me or insult my faith when I'm there, I have no problem with you.
...
Christians need to stop bashing other Christians, and same goes to other people of other faiths toward one another. Also to Christians to people of other faiths and visa versa. We all need to realize that we all have different beliefs and respect that.

Nice to know there are nice Christians out there.

DOUBLE POST!!!!! ya i know but these videos are awesome. just saying. i made my theology teachers head explode last week with these videos. he was tring so hard to refute everything that i said but he just couldn't. awesomeness hahaha

Seriously? I kind of wish I was there.

[Peace God]

Nice to know there are nice Christians out there.

*facepalm*...there's millions of nice Christians out there

[Death]

*facepalm*...there's millions of nice Christians out there

LOL, I know that. I wasn't trying to say there weren't. But there are also millions of not-so-nice Christians out there as well. Too many people take the bible literally, especially in my experience. If anything, that's why I said it.

[Peace God]

I wasn't trying to say there weren't.
lol i know...its just the way you said it kinda bothered me

Too many people take the bible literally.
I dont think its that bad, Id say that most christians dont believe, agree with or even know about most of the crazy shit in the bible.

[Sith Lord 13]

LOL, I know that. I wasn't trying to say there weren't. But there are also millions of not-so-nice Christians out there as well. Too many people take the bible literally, especially in my experience. If anything, that's why I said it.

It's the same with every religion as well as atheists and agnostics. Christianity has well in excess of 1 billion followers, of course you're gonna pick up a few people you'd rather not associate with.

[Punk_Kid]

I detest all religions that have a belief of heaven/hell, any god or figurehead, hatred towards gays and such, believe women are less important than men.

I despise Christianity especially. They're symbols come from Pagan religions that worshiped women and the Goddess of Fertility. All Christianity did was flip the symbols over and say these people are evil, hurt children and practice devil worship.

I ill not attack any religions but I will give my opinion when asked:yes:

[Death]

It's the same with every religion as well as atheists and agnostics. Christianity has well in excess of 1 billion followers, of course you're gonna pick up a few people you'd rather not associate with.


I do agree with that, it's just that many Christians I know were said bad people (although admittedly, I can say similar for some atheists I know), but that is probably just bad luck. I was merely saying that he was one of the (many) nicer ones, even if I did word it a bit badly.

[jack316]

I'm atheist and I saw zeitgeist too ! Very interesting
Christianity is so pathetic and its stories are so farfetched and stupid- i mean an arc that carries a pair of each animal in the world and 2 people that populate the world through incest. Bull !!

[Death]

i mean an arc that carries a pair of each animal in the world and 2 people that populate the world through incest. Bull !!

How many Christians believe that though?

[Perseus]

How many Christians believe that though?

My math teacher does.

[Korashk]

My math teacher does.
Odd, you math teacher should be able to do the math and find out that the flood story can not have happened the way it is described. The Bible gives the reader enough known variables.

[Perseus]

Odd, you math teacher should be able to do the math and find out that the flood story can not have happened the way it is described. The Bible gives the reader enough known variables.

It's Georgia. What would you expect?

[Death]

My math teacher does.

And she's still allowed to teach children?

[Perseus]

And she's still allowed to teach children?

It's a he, and yeah. Big deal, he believes in that; he still knows what he teaches, and he teaches it well. No one in the South cares(except for administration, obviously) if a teacher goes off on a tangent that involves a religion.

[Apparitions]

I got pissed off today with religion (nothing new there...). On my school's sixth form application form, I had to put my religion. My Mum made me put Catholic, which I only agreed to because if I didn't then it would give me less of a chance of getting in. Isn't that discrimination, putting the God Squad above others? IRL, if a company said "we're only considering applications from Catholics/Polish people/people with right wing views, anyone else need not apply" then I'm sure that counts as discrimination and could get said company into deep shit. That situation is very similar to my one, is it not? Yet another example of how religion divides people and causes problems that could be avoided if it didn't exist.

Oh, before you ask why, as an open Atheist, I'm applying to a Catholic school it's because I need a back up choice and seeing as I already go there, I'm almost certain to be accepted so if I don't get into my first choice, there's always my religious shithole of a school just in case.

[Skorupski]

I didn't really know what to choose because I don't believe in the structure and rules of religion. I believe in god but I hate that you have to be a "certain" religion to go to heaven.

[Peace God]

I believe in god but I hate that you have to be a "certain" religion to go to heaven.
No offense, but dont you have to be a certain religion to believe in heaven?

[Sage]

I hate that you have to be a "certain" religion to go to heaven.

Uh.. only a few religions even have a concept of "Heaven."

[Death]

I hate that you have to be a "certain" religion to go to heaven.

A few religious people (those who give the others a bad name IMO) may believe that, but that by no means makes it true. Believe whatever you like.

[MadManWithaBox]

I'm a roman catholic(I haven't posted in here before i don't think) I'm a creationist, and surprisingly devout(surprising even to myself) catholic.

[Death]

I'm a roman catholic(I haven't posted in here before i don't think) I'm a creationist, and surprisingly devout(surprising even to myself) catholic.

If you don't mind me asking, do you agree with everything in the bible?

[salema]

Ithink relgion is important in our life faith make the soul is pure and our love to God (Allah ) and all his massenger make the soul is relax from it dieases
Iam muslim and what our islam say's not violance but peace with all huminty
and thx for

[Errr]

I'm christain, except for the bible. I mean, it was written by MAN! And evolution has pretty much been proved. I think the stories in the bible are to teach us lessons and morals. Honestly, Adam & Eve? no. But god and hell and Jesus. I do believe. If not anything else, deffinatly god. I mean, there has to be something. Mainly I just feel, no matter what you believe, you be a good person, and you'll go to heaven.

[The Dark Lord]

I'm christain, except for the bible. I mean, it was written by MAN! And evolution has pretty much been proved. I think the stories in the bible are to teach us lessons and morals. Honestly, Adam & Eve? no. But god and hell and Jesus. I do believe. If not anything else, deffinatly god. I mean, there has to be something. Mainly I just feel, no matter what you believe, you be a good person, and you'll go to heaven.

Why does there have to be something? What is that something?

[deadpie]

I'm christain, except for the bible. I mean, it was written by MAN! And evolution has pretty much been proved. I think the stories in the bible are to teach us lessons and morals. Honestly, Adam & Eve? no. But god and hell and Jesus. I do believe. If not anything else, deffinatly god. I mean, there has to be something. Mainly I just feel, no matter what you believe, you be a good person, and you'll go to heaven.

While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house: And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. (Job 1:18-19)

Tell me what moral lesson this teaches. The Bible is pretty much the definition of PCP. It's fucking insane.

There doesn't have to be anything. Our planet is smaller than a rock compared to the size of this universe. The universe doesn't need us at all. God is just a simple answer for questions that are larger than they seem. He's an excuse for troubles and the positives too.

[mrmcdonaldduck]

While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house: And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. (Job 1:18-19)

Tell me what moral lesson this teaches. The Bible is pretty much the definition of PCP. It's fucking insane.


Old Testament. Thats not what the christian faith is based off. Try the new testament for what christians actually think.

You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
Matthew 5:43-46

[Syvelocin]

I hate that treat people how you want to be treated thing. We live by the eye-for-an-eye morality. Being nice to your enemies only puts you at their mercy. And your enemies are not worth your time. You should be nice to people who you can benefit from. Of course, not everyone will agree with me. But most Christians don't even follow that it seems.

[Death]

Ithink relgion is important in our life faith make the soul is pure and our love to God (Allah ) and all his massenger make the soul is relax from it dieases
Iam muslim and what our islam say's not violance but peace with all huminty
and thx for

First off, kindly learn to type since understanding you is a strain. Secondly, in which universe does mere faith (a.k.a. believing some random thing with zero evidence) ever absolve you of your 'diseases' or whatever shit to which you're trying to refer?. And what do you mean by soul? A little detail would be nice.

I hate that treat people how you want to be treated thing. We live by the eye-for-an-eye morality. Being nice to your enemies only puts you at their mercy.

I agree that the golden rule is flawed, although know that most of the bible is filled with 'inexplicably kill people for this, that and everything else' (found more often in the old testament).

I'm christain, except for the bible. I mean, it was written by MAN! And evolution has pretty much been proved. I think the stories in the bible are to teach us lessons and morals.

Morals? Like killing millions of people for pointless things like picking up sticks on a Sunday or disbelieving or homosexuality (and so on and so forth)? Hardly.

Honestly, Adam & Eve? no. But god and hell and Jesus. I do believe.

If you don't believe in Adam and Eve, what the hell is up with Jesus killing himself for our 'origional sin'? Surely if Adam and Eve weren't real, Jesus killed himself for something which was non-existant?

If not anything else, deffinatly god. I mean, there has to be something.

Why has? Because the matter from which the world is made requires a creator? Then why the fuck doesn't God require one? If God doesn't require a creator, than neither does anything else. After all, we've made things the way they are, and evolved to be able to. And as you'd expect, this took billions of years.

Complexity comes with time; everything starts simple. It's the same with our technology; it starts of bad, and gets better. If something is complex, it won't come early. And if God is truly what Christians believe, then he has to be complex, which is counter-intuitive. On the other hand, if he's a simple thing, why the hell do people bother praying to him?

[deadpie]

Old Testament. Thats not what the christian faith is based off. Try the new testament for what christians actually think.


You want New Testament? You shall receive.

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And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (Matthew 10:28)

Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not: Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee. (Matthew 11:20-24)

(Jesus Speaking) Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. (Matthew 10:34)

Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire. (Matthew 18:19)

And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea. (Mark 5:12-13)

And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death (Mark 7:9-10)

Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable. (Luke 3:17)

And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. (Acts 10:10-13)

Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. (Corinthians 10:8)

/

Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. (Corinthians 10:9)

For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart (Hebrews 12:20)

AND THE GRAND FINALE!!!!!


But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. (Peter 3:10)


The New Testament isn't really as different as the Old Testament in terms of violence. There's just less slave beating and sadism in it.

[Lasky]

I hate religion. Agnosticism FTW. More people have died in the name of God than any other reason. People go insane for no reason, even for the smallest things. Religion is just not for me

[Korashk]

I hate religion. Agnosticism FTW.
Agnosticism is an intellectual cop-out. It's equivalent to saying that you'll always give some semblance of validity to all ideas no matter how retarded they are.

More people have died in the name of God than any other reason.
Doubtful, most of religion's MAJOR mis-deeds happened during/before the middle-ages. There were significantly less people back then. I'm confident claiming that the death toll of all wars during the 20th century greatly outnumber those killed in the name of religion. Unless you want to get really creative with your attributions.

[Lasky]

Agnosticism is an intellectual cop-out. It's equivalent to saying that you'll always give some semblance of validity to all ideas no matter how retarded they are.


Doubtful, most of religion's MAJOR mis-deeds happened during/before the middle-ages. There were significantly less people back then. I'm confident claiming that the death toll of all wars during the 20th century greatly outnumber those killed in the name of religion. Unless you want to get really creative with your attributions.

Nope, I know for a fact more people have died in the name of God than any other reason

[Perseus]

Nope, I know for a fact more people have died in the name of God than any other reason

I dunno, that Hitler guy sure did kill a lot of people, and so did that Second World War he caused. Oh, Stalin did too.

[Lasky]

I dunno, that Hitler guy sure did kill a lot of people, and so did that Second World War he caused.

Yeah? And have you ever heard of the Crusades? TWELVE wars. Huge wars.

And the people in the Holocaust were killed because they were Jewish, again, in the name of God

[Perseus]

Yeah? And have you ever heard of the Crusades? TWELVE wars. Huge wars.

And the people in the Holocaust were killed because they were Jewish, again, in the name of God

The Crusades do not surmount to World War Two

And it wasn't because of their religion, it was because a lot of people in Germany thought that the Jews, since they owned a lot of banks, etc, were corrupting the economy of Germany after World War I. It was not of whom they worshiped.

[Lasky]

The Crusades do not surmount to World War Two

And it wasn't because of their religion, it was because a lot of people in Germany thought that the Jews, since they owned a lot of banks, etc, were corrupting the economy of Germany after World War I. It was not of whom they worshiped.

Hey, whatever way you see it, they were a different religion, and they were executed for it. Either way it has a religious undermine.

[Perseus]

Hey, whatever way you see it, they were a different religion, and they were executed for it. Either way it has a religious undermine.

No, it was because of their ethnicity.

[Lasky]

No, it was because of their ethnicity.

Oh really? So they were all ethnically Jewish? I don't think so.

Thats besides the point. In some form or another, every war has some type of religious message. Even the 2001 Terrorist attacks were linked to religion.

[Perseus]

Oh really? So they were all ethnically Jewish? I don't think so.


Herp de derp. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews)
Thats besides the point. In some form or another, every war has some type of religious message. Even the 2001 Terrorist attacks were linked to religion.
So, you want to tell me the American Civil War had to do with religion or even the One Hundred Years War? Or even The Franco-Prussian War? I don't think so.

[Lasky]

Herp de derp. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews)

So, you want to tell me the American Civil War had to do with religion or even the One Hundred Years War? Or even The Franco-Prussian War? I don't think so.

What does the Wikipedia article prove? It proves we were both right. And maybe not all wars, but most wars are for "God and country".

[Perseus]

What does the Wikipedia article prove? I

You said that Jews were not an ethnicity, when they are. The reiterates what I said. It said their ethnicity. Jews are descendants of the Semites. They are Semitic. They are an ethnic group, like white people are or Hispanics.

[Lasky]

You said that Jews were not an ethnicity, when they are. The reiterates what I said. It said their ethnicity. Jews are descendants of the Semites. They are Semitic. They are an ethnic group, like white people are or Hispanics.

I never EVER said they weren't an ethnic group. You said they were executed because of their ethnicity. It is possible to be ETHNICALLY Jewish. I simply stated there is no way they were all killed because they were ethnically Jewish.

[Peace God]

I simply stated there is no way they were all killed because they were ethnically Jewish.
Yes it was about ethnicity. Ever heard of Hilter trying to make the Aryan race the great superior race? Along with Jews they also killed Poles, Gypsys and people of other ethnicities that were deemed unworthy. It had very little to do with religion.

[Perseus]

I never EVER said they weren't an ethnic group. You said they were executed because of their ethnicity. It is possible to be ETHNICALLY Jewish. I simply stated there is no way they were all killed because they were ethnically Jewish.

... They prejudiced because of their ethnicity. Their ethnicity had a negative connotation in the 1900s. The Germans used them as a scapegoat for owning banks. It was not because they were not Christian. In fact, it was because they were not Nordic.

[Lasky]

... They prejudiced because of their ethnicity. Their ethnicity had a negative connotation in the 1900s. The Germans used them as a scapegoat for owning banks. It was not because they were not Christian. In fact, it was because they were not Nordic.

Well I did not know that. Thanks for informing me.

[Perseus]

Well I did not know that. Thanks for informing me.

I'm just go on an off topic thing here: A lot of people in the early 1900s didn't like Jews.

Hitler felt that only the Nordic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_race) and Aryan races (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_race) should be alive. Such as, he didn't want to invade England since they were Anglo-Saxon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxons), but Hitler did not like Churchill. It is a common misconception that Hitler only felt that the Aryan Race was the only superior, but the Nordic race falls into it, which a lot of Germans would be, I guess, since a lot of them have blackish hair and such.

[Lasky]

I'm just go on an off topic thing here: A lot of people in the early 1900s didn't like Jews.

Hitler felt that only the Nordic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_race) and Aryan races (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_race) should be alive. Such as, he didn't want to invade England since they were Anglo-Saxon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxons), but Hitler did not like Churchill. It is a common misconception that Hitler only felt that the Aryan Race was the only superior, but the Nordic race falls into it, which a lot of Germans would be, I guess, since a lot of them have blackish hair and such.

Yes but I believed it was solely because he just didn't like Jewish people lol Thanks for clearing that up for me

[Perseus]

Yes but I believed it was solely because he just didn't like Jewish people lol Thanks for clearing that up for me

I could write an entire novel about this. :P

Hitler didn't really start hating Jews till he had no job and World War I was on the verge of starting or started (I forgot). A lot of anti-Jew propaganda was starting during the war, etc., and he picked up on it when he was a homeless. I don't want to get yelled at by the mods, so I'll stop. :P

[Korashk]

Yeah? And have you ever heard of the Crusades? TWELVE wars. Huge wars.
Yeah, they were so huge that roughly 4,000,000 (http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat0.htm) people died because of them...

Not each, total

[The Dark Lord]

Hey, whatever way you see it, they were a different religion, and they were executed for it. Either way it has a religious undermine.

The Jews weren't hated on the basis of their religion. It was skillful propagnada that led many germans that jews were responsible for the great depression and Germany's economic problems, an economic reason not religious one.

[Lasky]

The Jews weren't hated on the basis of their religion. It was skillful propagnada that led many germans that jews were responsible for the great depression and Germany's economic problems, an economic reason not religious one.

Yeah I got that, thanks. You know, the previous ten posts?

I still never knew that

[The Dark Lord]

Yeah I got that, thanks. You know, the previous ten posts?

I still never knew that

Please refrain from using internet sarcasm, you end up looking small minded and petty, particularly when you lack the style to pull it off.

[Death]

Please refrain from using internet sarcasm, you end up looking small minded and petty, particularly when you lack the style to pull it off.

Forgive me for my random question, but don't you warn people that your posts may contain sarcasm in your avatar (I remember you once saying that you had it deliberately to convey that message)?

[The Dark Lord]

Forgive me for my random question, but don't you warn people that your posts may contain sarcasm in your avatar (I remember you once saying that you had it deliberately to convey that message)?

The point was that I had corrected the poster on a something about the Nazis and got a sarcastic reply as a result I told her not to use internet sarcasm, particurarly when it doesn't work

[rextoystory]

Christian -> Catholic :)

[mjj1213]

Im christian baptist

[deadpie]

I think people are starting to forget that this thread is for debating religion, not saying what you believe in and never post ever again.


Also, if the fetus turns out to be a gay child, is abortion still bad to you, Christians? Just wondering.

[Kiko]

I think people are starting to forget that this thread is for debating religion, not saying what you believe in and never post ever again.


Also, if the fetus turns out to be a gay child, is abortion still bad to you, Christians? Just wondering.

Christians don't condone homosexuality, only homosexual sexual acts and homosexual marriage, so no.

[deadpie]

Christians don't condone homosexuality, only homosexual sexual acts and homosexual marriage, so no.

Well, it'd be pretty boring to be a homosexual not being able to fall in love or explore your own sexuality. So, technically, it doesn't really matter at that point.

[Death]

Christians don't condone homosexuality, only homosexual sexual acts and homosexual marriage, so no.

Evangelical protestants do. But then again this is hardly surprising since this particular branch of Christianity condemn everything else they can't comprehend too, which would probably explain their overall contempt.

[Kiko]

I'm not that religious... I say I have my own kinda religion because I think that the church is full of shit, and all they want its power, and more of it, like normal human beings. My religion, only follows god and Jesus... nothing more, nothing less. I beleive in god and Jesus, but I think that the church is full of bs.
I don't agree with half their rules.

Saw this on the first page and it's the situation I'm in right now :D

[Continuum]

Saw this on the first page and it's the situation I'm in right now :D

Meh. Be like me, don't agree with all of their poppycock.

[Oby.]

I'm Christian, but my views on it are kind of demented. Personally, I think that science and religion play a hand on hand thing, you know?

I mean, I think that God created the big bang. I mean, its not impossible. Even if they do know what triggered the big bang, there will still be more and more questions like, what triggered the trigger, or what created the trigger, and shit like that. And I think the only way to explain that fully with with a god. So I think, just like Melchi0r said, God created the dinosaurs first. He wiped them out, which, you know, he has done before, and decided it was time for humans. I think that Evolution is a load of bull, I mean, hey, if it is proven, then my views might change to Melch's, but until then, I'll believe God created Adam and even and so on so on.


"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."
-Albert Einstein

[Magus]

I'm Christian, but my views on it are kind of demented. Personally, I think that science and religion play a hand on hand thing, you know?
Yes indeed. Gregor used his jurisdiction as a priest to continue on his experiments.

I mean, I think that God created the big bang. I mean, its not impossible. Even if they do know what triggered the big bang, there will still be more and more questions like, what triggered the trigger, or what created the trigger, and shit like that.
It's called Ad infinitum. What triggered the trigger? Who created God? God? Then who created that god? Another god? And it goes on indefinitely.
I think that Evolution is a load of bull, I mean, hey, if it is proven, then my views might change to Melch's, but until then, I'll believe God created Adam and even and so on so on.
Evolution is a scientific Fact. Calling it a load of bull is in itself madness. We are from apes, my friends, we are. Adam and Eve is just a story.

[Sage]

I mean, I think that God created the big bang. I mean, its not impossible. Even if they do know what triggered the big bang, there will still be more and more questions like, what triggered the trigger, or what created the trigger, and shit like that. And I think the only way to explain that fully with with a god.
Having an answer doesn't mean you have the answer.

I think that Evolution is a load of bull, I mean, hey, if it is proven, then my views might change to Melch's, but until then, I'll believe God created Adam and even and so on so on.
Adam and Eve's children would've had to have incestuous sex to give birth to a new generation, and they would inherit genetic diseases and deformities from their parents, who are siblings, and then to give birth to a new generation they'd have to have incest again, only they're already genetically fucked up, and it would only get worse and worse and we'd all be dead within just a few generations.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."
-Albert Einstein
Quoting someone smarter than you out of context doesn't prove any point.

[Amnesiac]

I mean, I think that God created the big bang. I mean, its not impossible. Even if they do know what triggered the big bang, there will still be more and more questions like, what triggered the trigger, or what created the trigger, and shit like that. And I think the only way to explain that fully with with a god.

Making up an answer is not equivalent to actually answering the question, as Sage said. Besides, if you read A Brief History of Time by Stephen Hawking, you'll understand what exactly the Big Bang was (not just an explosion) and why a god may not be necessary at all to explain it (assuming the Universe is spherical, of course).

So I think, just like Melchi0r said, God created the dinosaurs first. He wiped them out, which, you know, he has done before, and decided it was time for humans. I think that Evolution is a load of bull, I mean, hey, if it is proven, then my views might change to Melch's, but until then, I'll believe God created Adam and even and so on so on.

Evolution is an observable process. It has been proven.

Evolution is not a theory in the sense used on Evolution; rather, it is a fact. This is because the word evolution is used here to refer to the observed process of the genetic composition of populations changing over successive generations. Because this is simply an observation, it is considered a fact.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."
-Albert Einstein

>implying Einstein wasn't an atheist or at least extremely skeptical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein's_religious_views)

[Death]

I'm Christian, but my views on it are kind of demented.

Probably the first and last correct thing you've said.

I mean, I think that God created the big bang. I mean, its not impossible.

So? Doesn't make it true.

Even if they do know what triggered the big bang, there will still be more and more questions like, what triggered the trigger, or what created the trigger, and shit like that. And I think the only way to explain that fully with with a god.

Did I just fucking read this? I would have thought it blatently obvious that the argument involving a god is no different when it comes to critisism. What's so special about God, anyway? Why does he not need a creator but the universe does?

So I think, just like Melchi0r said, God created the dinosaurs first. He wiped them out, which, you know, he has done before, and decided it was time for humans.

What a sick god. When do you suppose he'll wipe us out then, eh? If them, why not us?

I think that Evolution is a load of bull, I mean, hey, if it is proven, then my views might change to Melch's, but until then, I'll believe God created Adam and even and so on so on.

Your blatent stupidity is quite sad. Not only do you refuse to believe in something on the basis of a lack of evidence even though evidence is obviously there, you use the same reason to believe in something else without evidence. To be honest, I don't even know why I'm explaining this to you since someone of your intellect could probably never understand it anyway, but it's worth a try at least.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."
-Albert Einstein

Hang on, are you for science and religion co-existing or against it? Because you've just nonsensicly bashed science before, and yet now you're saying it's necessarry? Could you pehaps keep your story straight next time?

[Apparitions]

I'm Christian, but my views on it are kind of demented.
How so?
Personally, I think that science and religion play a hand on hand thing, you know?
Why? Science is more logical than religion and seeks to prove itself which religion rarely does.
I mean, I think that God created the big bang. I mean, its not impossible.
Evidence to suggest this? You can't come out with something like that with no proof. Oh wait, religion has been doing that for the last fuck knows how many years.
Even if they do know what triggered the big bang, there will still be more and more questions like, what triggered the trigger, or what created the trigger, and shit like that.
So what? People have thought about this for ages and have no answers. If scientists don't know how it happened then why would religion? This 'ad infininitum' idea has been about for ages.
And I think the only way to explain that fully with with a god.
Why? Can't you just accept that some things can't be proved and not resort to believing in what is equivalent to a fairy tale?
So I think, just like Melchi0r said, God created the dinosaurs first. He wiped them out, which, you know, he has done before, and decided it was time for humans.
So you admit that your God is a mass-murderer of his own creations? Also, why do you think this happened when there is no evidence to suggest that a god/a higher being is responsible for the extinction of dinosaurs?
I think that Evolution is a load of bull Even though there is more evidence in favour of it than there is for Creationism which is just ridiculous and far fetched.
I mean, hey, if it is proven, then my views might change to Melch's, but until then, I'll believe God created Adam and even and so on so on. Then you are deluded. Sorry, but it's the truth. You might have trouble understanding the word 'truth' seeing as you've been lied to all your life by religious people about how the world works etc.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."
-Albert EinsteinYou do know Einstein was Atheist or at least quite skeptical of religion, right? I believe that there is an extension to that quote as well which shows this, however I've forgotten it and I can't be bothered to Google it.

It's called Ad infinitum. What triggered the trigger? Who created God? God? Then who created that god? Another god? And it goes on indefinitely.Ah, this is one of the things that made me Atheist. I've tried asking religious people who created their God and for some strange reason I never get an answer. Funny, that is...
Evolution is a scientific Fact. Calling it a load of bull is in itself madness. We are from apes, my friends, we are. Adam and Eve is just a story.
Evolution is a lot more believable than Creationism, which IMO has absolutely no place in education. It's just more logical and there is more evidence for it than there is for Creationism.

[Magus]

Ah, this is one of the things that made me Atheist. I've tried asking religious people who created their God and for some strange reason I never get an answer. Funny, that is...
Yes, I like to bring this up when the say "Hurr what make big bang?!?, NOthing? Ttaht;s silly!"

I can say the same to about your God, what brought God?Nothing? Then simply strike out that metaphysical and mythological being called God, and we can say Universe came about by itself. It doesn't need a purpose to exist at all.

[Amnesiac]

Yes, I like to bring this up when the say "Hurr what make big bang?!?, NOthing? Ttaht;s silly!"

I can say the same to about your God, what brought God?Nothing? Then simply strike out that metaphysical and mythological being called God, and we can say Universe came about by itself. It doesn't need a purpose to exist at all.

I'm going to take a moment here to explain how the big bang theory works. If anyone comes here and says "HURR WHAT STARTED THE BIG BANG" after I post this, you're an idiot.

The Big Bang was not the "explosion" that started the universe. It was the point where all the matter that makes up the universe was condensed into one infinitely small point with infinite density and temperature. Since we know the Universe is expanding (galaxies are moving away from each other), the Universe had to be infinitely dense and hot at some point in history — this is known as a singularity, the point where most (if not all) scientific theories "break down" (see below). The Universe did not suddenly explode into being, the time when it was infinitely dense and hot is what scientists label the "Big Bang". After that period, the Universe expanded rapidly due to the sheer amount of energy inside it — as it expanded, the rate of expansion slowed as the matter within the Universe organized itself.

As explained in Stephen Hawking's A Brief History of Time, it is impossible to explain what happened before the Big Bang, since modern scientific theory is only able to explain what happened after the Big Bang singularity. Therefore, time started when the Big Bang happened, leaving everything else before the Big Bang irrelevant. A direct quote:

Hubble’s observations suggested that there was a time, called the big bang, when the universe was infinitesimally small and infinitely dense. Under such conditions all the laws of science, and therefore all ability to predict the future, would break down. If there were events earlier than this time, then they could not affect what happens at the present time. Their existence can be ignored because it would have no observational consequences.

The future of the universe depends greatly on what shape the universe is, and how fast it is expanding.

http://hoku.as.utexas.edu/~gebhardt/plots/open_closed.gif

In an "open" universe, the Universe is expanding at a rate fast enough to avoid re-collapsing into a singularity again due to the forces of gravity (which is what would happen in a "closed" universe). A "flat" universe is similar; it is expanding slowly, fast enough to avoid re-collapsing but at a slower rate as time goes on. As can be seen, all three of these possible ways the Universe is growing started at the Big Bang singularity and expanded rapidly before slowing to its present rate (whatever that might be).

That's my brief summary of the Big Bang theory. It doesn't cover nearly everything, but it gives you all the basic info about what the theory really says, not "HURR BIG EXPLOSION". I don't want to see any bullshit responses to this; this is entirely based on solid sources which can be found here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang) and here (http://www.fisica.net/relatividade/stephen_hawking_a_brief_history_of_time.pdf).

[Sage]

This debate largely bores me these days but I may as well also toss two little reminders in since we seem to be on this part of the topic lately.

1) The Big Bang theory doesn't explain the origin of the universe, it explains why the universe appears to be expanding, why things in the universe are moving, and how we can calculate spacial distances. The universe is expanding, this is an observable fact, and if you go back in time, assuming things have always been moving as they are, then at some point they must have all been together.

2) The Theory of Evolution does not explain the origin of life, it explains the diversity of life forms and how genes passed down and natural mutations change species slowly from generation to generation.

[Peace God]

2) The Theory of Evolution does not explain the origin of life
Ha! Well, the bible does. So Christianity 1...Atheism 0. :yeah:

[Amnesiac]

Ha! Well, the bible does. So Christianity 1...Atheism 0. :yeah:

http://www.thedailytribute.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/john-travolta.jpg

LOLOL Scientology explains it better. Alien reincarnation FTW.

Scientology 1... Christianity 0... Atheism 0

[embers]

Ha! Well, the bible does. So Christianity 1...Atheism 0. :yeah:

And yet Christianity contradicts the observable fact (evolution), and seeing as that wouldn't make any sense...

Christianty 1 Atheism 1

[Sage]

And yet Christianity contradicts the observable fact (evolution), and seeing as that wouldn't make any sense...

Christianty 1 Atheism 1

He was being sarcastic.

[embers]

He was being sarcastic.

):

There goes my dignity.

[Peace God]

IBHEsEshhLs
Semi related funny video about Creationism vs. Evolution.

):

There goes my dignity.
Haha, it's all good bro. But yeah, i'm an atheist.

[Perseus]

I'm Christian, but my views on it are kind of demented. Personally, I think that science and religion play a hand on hand thing, you know?

I mean, I think that God created the big bang. I mean, its not impossible. Even if they do know what triggered the big bang, there will still be more and more questions like, what triggered the trigger, or what created the trigger, and shit like that. And I think the only way to explain that fully with with a god. So I think, just like Melchi0r said, God created the dinosaurs first. He wiped them out, which, you know, he has done before, and decided it was time for humans. I think that Evolution is a load of bull, I mean, hey, if it is proven, then my views might change to Melch's, but until then, I'll believe God created Adam and even and so on so on.


"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."
-Albert Einstein

Oh Gawd, you sound like me when I was fourteen. Let's see, you are in eighth grade, so you haven't had ninth grade biology yet, so your statements can slide, but look something up before you debase it. Evolution and the theory of natural selection go hand in hand. The theory of natural selection is observable since it deals with genetics, like Sage was saying earlier. The superior genes pass on and that becomes the new stuff. Mutations occur and such, such as humans are being born without wisdom teeth now. There's more to this, but I'm doing something right now, so this should suffice.

[Apparitions]

A couple of Einstein quotes on religion for Oby:

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein, 1954) From Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press

I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts. I am satisfied with the mystery of the eternity of life and with the awareness and a glimpse of the marvelous structure of the existing world, together with the devoted striving to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the Reason that manifests itself in nature. (Albert Einstein, The World as I See It)

[Magus]

but it gives you all the basic info about what the theory really says, not "HURR BIG EXPLOSION". I don't want to see any bullshit responses to this
Hurr! Big bang is an explosion that came no where!!! That;s silyl! GOD MADE US!
The Theory of Evolution does not explain the origin of life, it explains the diversity of life forms and how genes passed down and natural mutations change species slowly from generation to generation.
HURR THEN FROM WHERE ANIMALZ CAME FROM HURR!!!1

Okay, I made this somewhere else, but let me post it here. A compilation of books.

Chapter 1
Lesson 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_theory) - Michio Kaku goes invisible.
Lesson 2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang) - Stephen Hwaking eats you.
Lesson 3 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Shift) - Hubble prophesied it!
Lesson 4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadean) - Earth, 4004 years ago
Chapter 2
Lesson 5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis) - Urey's-Miller's experiment has failed :devil1:
Lesson 6 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introduction_to_evolution) - It's just a theory!(Notice how they mix up between Theory and a Scientific theory)
Lesson 6 part-II in depth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution)"One thing all real scientists agree upon is the fact of evolution itself. It is a fact that we are cousins of gorillas, kangaroos, starfish, and bacteria. Evolution is as much a fact as the heat of the sun. It is not a theory, and for pity's sake, let's stop confusing the philosophically naive by calling it so. Evolution is a fact" ~ Some satanist.

New Edition Additions

Chapter 2
Lesson 7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_biology) - Craig Venter has faced the god's wrath.

[Sogeking]

That's my brief summary of the Big Bang theory. It doesn't cover nearly everything, but it gives you all the basic info about what the theory really says, not "HURR BIG EXPLOSION". I don't want to see any bullshit responses to this; this is entirely based on solid sources which can be found here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang) and here (http://www.fisica.net/relatividade/stephen_hawking_a_brief_history_of_time.pdf).

Any who, I think whatever started the big bang will forever be a mystery. Just something that happened randomly.

[Amnesiac]

Hurr! Big bang is an explosion that came no where!!! That;s silyl! GOD MADE US!

The Big Bang was an explosion, anyone who says otherwise is an idiot. (http://www.dafk.net/what/)

http://trolledbot.net/pix/618.png

Any who, I think whatever started the big bang will forever be a mystery. Just something that happened randomly.

It doesn't matter anyway, so why should anyone care?

[Weeping]

Atheist over here!

:hug:

[Sogeking]

It doesn't matter anyway, so why should anyone care?

Because if we want to answer the question "Why we are here?", we have to first answer the question "How did we get here" The Big Bang explains that, but what triggered the trigger?

[deadpie]

Religious people using the, "Well, show me proof of the big bang" and stuff like that are kind of going against their idea of faith.

Faith is to have confidence or trust in a certain thing. That means you trust that everything your religion says is true, but don't need proof or anything.

So if religious people look for proof to their faith, that means their demeaning their own beliefs.

[Aves]

Just stating, even when I was a practicing Catholic (shocking, I know), I still believed the Big Bang Theory to be plausible. Why? If God intended it, it would be true. No where in the Bible does it say that it did, or did not happen that way.

[Magus]

Why? If God intended it, it would be true. No where in the Bible does it say that it did, or did not happen that way.
I didn't get that, but...

The Big Bang can also be a true case to Muslims, and not Christians.

"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe"

Muslims interpret that as both Big Bang(due to their lack of knowledge in the subject) and Abiogenesis. So, Islam > Christianity?

[Hastro]

Im an atheist.
But I do believe that something like an Angel or a Demon controls our thoughts and emotions. Other than that - Big Bang Theory.

[Sage]

But I do believe that something like an Angel or a Demon controls our thoughts and emotions.

Wait, what? How? What is this I don't even.

[Magus]

Im an atheist.
But I do believe that something like an Angel or a Demon controls our thoughts and emotions. Other than that - Big Bang Theory.
You are an atheist who believe that something like an Angel or a Demon controls our thoughts... interesting... and other than that, Big Fuck Theory... very interesting.

May I tell you that I am a huge skeptic[others], and I don't believe in invisible beings - be them God's, Angels, Ghosts, Imaginary friends and etc.

Hey, join our Church! The church of 'free your mind from bullshit (http://www.randi.org/site/)', you will like it, believe me - I am not forcing my "believes" on you, but I want from you to just to check it out. Check this one (http://www.skepdic.com/tialtmed.html) also

[Hastro]

You are an atheist who believe that something like an Angel or a Demon controls our thoughts... interesting... and other than that, Big Fuck Theory... very interesting.

May I tell you that I am a huge skeptic[others], and I don't believe in invisible beings - be them God's, Angels, Ghosts, Imaginary friends and etc.

Hey, join our Church! The church of 'free your mind from bullshit (http://www.randi.org/site/)', you will like it, believe me - I am not forcing my "believes" on you, but I want from you to just to check it out. Check this one (http://www.skepdic.com/tialtmed.html) also

I just think that humans are far too complex to of been created by some heating and cooling of a rock. My belief in some other "being" out there is just my own excuse that we didnt just end up here.

and as for being an atheist, Its just the easy way of saying that Im agaisnt religion and my beliefs are based on nothing to do with religion, more the fact about how "we" got here, and how/why we were created.

[deadpie]

and as for being an atheist, Its just the easy way of saying that Im agaisnt religion and my beliefs are based on nothing to do with religion, more the fact about how "we" got here, and how/why we were created.

>Implying all atheists are juts plainly against religion.

We're not all extremists. Well, I am.

How we got here? Well, before I was born, I was nothing, but then my parents fucked, and I became something. There's nothing into something right there.

Why does there have to be a point to humanity?

Things aren't as complex as you think they are. There doesn't have to be a reason or prophecy for everything that happens or is to happen.

[Peace God]

and as for being an atheist, Its just the easy way of saying that Im agaisnt religion and my beliefs are based on nothing to do with religion, more the fact about how "we" got here, and how/why we were created.
I think you should switch that one around man, Your "atheism" should have nothing to do with your views on religion and a lot more to do with your beliefs on "how we got here".

[Hastro]

>Implying all atheists are juts plainly against religion.

We're not all extremists. Well, I am.

How we got here? Well, before I was born, I was nothing, but then my parents fucked, and I became something. There's nothing into something right there.

Why does there have to be a point to humanity?

Things aren't as complex as you think they are. There doesn't have to be a reason or prophecy for everything that happens or is to happen.

People want to know the reasons for everything that happens, thats why they follow a religion, I dont like the theorys of any religion so I choose not to follow them.

No, there dosent have to be a reason to everything. Its just being curious.

[Death]

I just think that humans are far too complex to of been created by some heating and cooling of a rock.

Well that's okay, because that's not what happened. Evolution is simply natural processes whereby those adapted to their surroundings are those who survive and thus pass on their genes only.

[Sage]

I just think that humans are far too complex to of been created by some heating and cooling of a rock. My belief in some other "being" out there is just my own excuse that we didnt just end up here.

Complexity, design, and order are just illusions that your mind is programmed to see. There's a famous picture of a hill on Mars that looks like a human face with some lighting and shadows, but upon closer, clearer inspection, is just a hill like any other. Humans are complex, yes, but we're no more or less complex than the majority of life forms on Earth, and we are definitely not complex to the point that we cannot understand how our mind and bodies work.

Also, as I said right on the last damned page, Evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life, it explains the diversity of it and how it changes over time. The origin of life is called Abiogenesis, the rise of organic, living matter from non-living elements and substances. We know a lot less about Abiogenesis than Evolution at this time but a few plausible hypotheses exist and it is always being studied.

[CMEBACH]

hey i dont know where this came from but not long ago i came up with this theory:

even if "time/space travel" (not as two but one) doesn't exist at the moment whos to say it won't in the next hundred years or ten years maby and whos to say we wont be able to recrate the BBT on smaller scales. im sure by now some have picked up on what im going to say, but if scientists could possibly pin-point the location of the big bang, which should still be produceing matter, they should be able to time/space travel there and place the BBT materials there. it may not have been or will be humans the universe is huge it could be some other species on a planet. just my idea. oh and before i forget: Agnosticism

[Death]

hey i dont know where this came from but not long ago i came up with this theory:

even if "time/space travel" (not as two but one) doesn't exist at the moment whos to say it won't in the next hundred years or ten years maby and whos to say we wont be able to recrate the BBT on smaller scales. im sure by now some have picked up on what im going to say, but if scientists could possibly pin-point the location of the big bang, which should still be produceing matter, they should be able to time/space travel there and place the BBT materials there. it may not have been or will be humans the universe is huge it could be some other species on a planet. just my idea. oh and before i forget: Agnosticism

What about the other paradoxes in timetravel? I mean if it existed, we could end up having people born without parents. As in you go back in time and kill yiour parents before you had them. It is both illogical and impossible. The closest thing to time travel that you're going to get is travelling around the world against or with the sun.

[Magus]

What about the other paradoxes in timetravel? I mean if it existed, we could end up having people born without parents. As in you go back in time and kill yiour parents before you had them. It is both illogical and impossible. The closest thing to time travel that you're going to get is travelling around the world against or with the sun.
Another Paradox with time travel is. You have decided that you will visit yourself, exactly at this time and hour(assuming that you are in future). However, nobody visits you in this time. That means, you didn't not travel from future to the past.

As said by Death, if have you already killed your parent, you simply do not exist. But you are existing. That means, your future self did not time travel.

Yes, you can travel back one day in the past, if it's 01 am here(that means, the next day), you can travel west ward to, let's say, 11 pm - this means you have returned back to the last day. But, that's a simply an illusion of time, and not really an actual time shift where you visit yourself and etc.

[Bmatlman]

i do believe in god and jesus. i think he did create us because how else did we get here. plz explain any ideas that you guys have to how else we got here besides a creator.

[deadpie]

i do believe in god and jesus. i think he did create us because how else did we get here. plz explain any ideas that you guys have to how else we got here besides a creator.

How about the lack of proof that most things in the bible actually happened (ex. great flood). Or how God kills over 400,000 people. And we don't need a creator. One thing that really bothers me is how much people think there has to be a reason for everything.

MeSSwKffj9o

[Death]

i do believe in god and jesus. i think he did create us because how else did we get here. plz explain any ideas that you guys have to how else we got here besides a creator.

No offense, but LOL @ this question. Are you actually being serious? I mean how the fuck did God and Jesus get here? If they can always exist, then why can't everything else, such as the matter from which the universe was made always have existed? Why does one need a creator and one not? You have read up on the scientific theories, right? Good job ignoring basic loopholes in your 'argument'.

[Magus]

Why does one need a creator and one not?
True question is, who created that creator? into Ad infinitum.

[gingeylover14]

i think we critisize other religions because were all constantly searching for the truth and have insecurities about weather our path is the right path so we push other paths down to help boost our confidence that our way is the 'right' way

[deadpie]

i think we critisize other religions because were all constantly searching for the truth and have insecurities about weather our path is the right path so we push other paths down to help boost our confidence that our way is the 'right' way

I think the exact opposite - people move from religion because they search for truth, maybe questioning their own beliefs and looking in more than one point of view on things. And no, I don't think criticising religions has much to do with "BOOSTING CONFIDENCE". It's just debating; trying to prove your point maybe find others to become interested in, and facing disagreements with a good debate.

Personally, my ego doesn't go up or I don't get a wrenching boner when I prove someone my points. If that's the goal that someone wants to accomplish with debating, I really think they aren't in the style for debating because that's taking in personal needs for the debate itself and when poeple get personal in a debate that can get off topic and bring out more emotions, which leads to a shit debate of everyone pissing on each other.

[MadManWithaBox]

To whoever asked it before - I believe in Adam and Eve, I'm a creationist.

[Quahog]

I am a christian. But I'm not too big on religion. I believe that there is a god. I believe that there is an afterlife. So I guess I'm christian.

[Perseus]

To whoever asked it before - I believe in Adam and Eve, I'm a creationist.

You do realize it would be impossible for two people to create an entire species? Incest fucks up a population, not benefits it. Also, it does not account for Australian native population or the Pacific native population, nor does it account for Native Americans. It just wouldn't work. At all. Same thing goes with Noah's Ark. I'm not attacking your beliefs; I'm just bringing up flaws. I believe you should look at this article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_humans#Divergence_of_the_human_lineage_from_other_Great_Apes).

[MadManWithaBox]

Its entirely possible. And I don't want you to try and break my beliefs.

[deadpie]

To whoever asked it before - I believe in Adam and Eve, I'm a creationist.


Well, this is huh.


By examining fossils and DNA we find that our hands (wondrous mechanisms of adaptation) resemble fish fins, our head is organized like that of an extinct jawless fish, and major parts of our genome look and function like those of worms and bacteria. In God’s image? Not likely.

Why are our limbs, nervous system, and brain so much like the structure of past and present creatures? Simply because our bodies are more complex versions of theirs. Genes and embryos bear ancient encoded blueprints of how we were “evolved,” not “created.” Every species in a zoo or aquarium have things in common with us: a head, two eyes, limbs, a brain; that we also have. Nothing has yet been found biologically that other creatures similar to us do not also have.

The order of fossils in the world’s rock is powerful evidence of our connections to the rest of life. And despite more than 150 years of looking for fossils the observation has never been proven wrong: In 600 million years human remains never come before reptiles or fish in the geological time-scale. Biblical Adam and Eve never existed. Prove us wrong - and you would be as great (if not greater) than Darwin and Einstein combined. But you won’t, nor are you likely to accept this conclusion.

As textbooks tell us, if you want to make a bat wing then make the fingers long; make a horse, elongate the middle fingers and toes and lose the outer ones; a frog leg, elongate the bones of the leg and fuse several of them together. The fundamental design in all animal skeletons (frogs, bats, lizards, humans, etc.) are just variations on a theme. This is found as well in our body organs. Knowing which genes in our cells turn on or off which organ or function demonstrates Mr. Roberts that we are replicating machines just like the rest of living nature. We are beautiful creatures but not supernaturally divine beings. So we can smell the roses and think about the roses and the roses (in a sense) takes us in as well. Does the rose think? It has a memory system of sorts but cannot cogitate “us.”



Its entirely possible. And I don't want you to try and break my beliefs.


Well, you're in ramblings of the wise, so expect it or leave.

[MadManWithaBox]

Which is god's intervention. Giving us something to do while we're here, helps to weed out the non believers.

[deadpie]

Which is god's intervention. Giving us something to do while we're here, helps to weed out the non believers.

Who are you talking to again? This is a debate, not a temple of preaching.

[MadManWithaBox]

I'm making the point. This is god's will, this is how he see's those that are faithful, and those are not.

[deadpie]

I'm making the point. This is god's will, this is how he see's those that are faithful, and those are not.

God's will is bullshit, including the idea of him leading people to their destiny or path. Christian kid dies of cancer and he had no path. End story.

You're not making a good point, but really some of the worst posts I've ever seen in this thread.

If God is all knowing, than he knew that Adam & Eve would be tempted to sin. What does that say about him?

[MadManWithaBox]

He knew humans are weak, and can be lead to temptation. It was his test, and they failed. But they still had faith, and we all should do now.

[deadpie]

He knew humans are weak, and can be lead to temptation. It was his test, and they failed. But they still had faith, and we all should do now.

There's no point in trying to debate with someone like you sense all you do is ignore anything pointed out and keep preaching with no proof of your points, but just jibjab nonsense.

[embers]

He knew humans are weak, and can be lead to temptation. It was his test, and they failed. But they still had faith, and we all should do now.

Assumption: God exists outside of time, so he exists at all times, and can, as we see it, "see the future" (as he exists in the future as well as in the present).

Why would he need to 'test their faith' if he knew the outcome?

[MadManWithaBox]

Because he gave us minds, to be independent. He wanted to see if we would vary what he already saw might happen.

[deadpie]

Because he gave us minds, to be independent. He wanted to see if we would vary what he already saw might happen.

He wouldn't need to. He already knows the outcome no matter what. He is 'all knowing of the past, present, and future'. How are we really independent if he has written our plans out and knows all our outcomes? That means we can't decide our own life at all actually.

[embers]

Because he gave us minds, to be independent. He wanted to see if we would vary what he already saw might happen.

Think of it this way: you have a coin on which both sides are a head, there are no tails. You know when you flip it you'll get a head. Why would you flip it to test whether the outcome will be heads or tails? It's pointless and an utter waste of time.

Thing is, God doesn't 'forsee' the future, he is in the future, the present and the past at the same time. To say he is restricted by the forces of time would mean that he isn't omnipotent.

And so, he already knows how humans will die out. He knows what every single one of us will do in the next minute, because to him the minute is already happening.

He doesn't need to test theories, because he knows the outcome before the experiment even starts.


Edit: It also means that God created the unfaithful. You have no say in whether you're on the 'right path' or not.

[Perseus]

Its entirely possible. And I don't want you to try and break my beliefs.

How?

[Sogeking]

How?

Here. (http://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c004.html)

Most logical answer I can find.

[UnknownError]

To me, the only religion that seems slightly possible is Buddhism.
A normal human prince leaves his castle and blah blah blah stuff happens and he is enlightend. Buddhism isn't saying stuff like "The Buddha controls you" or "The Buddha created everything". Thats why I think that's the only one that is slightly possible.

[Rainstorm]

To me, the only religion that seems slightly possible is Buddhism.
A normal human prince leaves his castle and blah blah blah stuff happens and he is enlightend. Buddhism isn't saying stuff like "The Buddha controls you" or "The Buddha created everything". Thats why I think that's the only one that is slightly possible.

Which is also why people argue that Buddhism is a philosophy and not a religion.

[embers]

Here. (http://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c004.html)

Most logical answer I can find.

Damn, that's a good read.

[restricted NA]

Theistic evolution, which is the believe that god created the basic organisms on earth, but they evolved on the own.

[deadpie]

Damn, that's a good read.

This is a good read too. (http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2008/07/adam-and-eve-didnt-exist-molecules-tell.html)

This too. (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/06/adam_and_eve_did_not_exist_don.php)

And that. (http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2006/03/story-of-cain-gen-41-25_08.html)

[FullyAlive]

I'm Athiest, I don't particularly like religion it contradicts itself too much, is too unrealistic, and seems too controlling.
I have more philosophy's than beliefs I'm a strong determinist :/

[embers]

This is a good read too. (http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2008/07/adam-and-eve-didnt-exist-molecules-tell.html)

This too. (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/06/adam_and_eve_did_not_exist_don.php)

And that. (http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2006/03/story-of-cain-gen-41-25_08.html)

Indeed. I think the problem with Cain's wife is quite interesting though. I should do more reading into this shiz.

[Magus]

Am I the only one in the 'other' section who is not a polytheist/pagan(or pertaining to religion)?

[Korashk]

Am I the only one in the 'other' section who is not a polytheist/pagan(or pertaining to religion)?
No; I'm a Satanist. What are you?

[Magus]

What are you?I am a naturalist. Though, that's an indirect way to say that I am an atheist and a sceptic.

[persiandude]

im a secular muslim!i have pride in it.....

[Magus]

im a secular muslim!i have pride in it.....
The title "Secular -Put a religion here-" or "non-observant -put a religion here-" is quite funny, and actually ironical.

[ImCoolBeans]

fghjkl

[Sage]

i strongly believe in god

Why?

[ImCoolBeans]

Why?
hgfj

[Suicune]

Hmm. Well I posted in this thread liek 2 years ago, but I see that I can't change my vote. D:

Anyway, I've converted from Christianity to Atheism (Would I say converted? O_o)

[Sage]

why not? sure, there's proof to say he does not exist but if someone believes that he does and feels they have a close relationship with him then what's the problem?

If you believe one thing without good reason, you're more prone to believing other things without good reason, and that's going to lead to you making poor choices in life. Simply wanting something to be so does not make it so, and if you're rational enough to realize that you're just believing this because it feels good, as you are, then what's the point of believing it at all? You know it's silly and you know it doesn't add anything to your life that you couldn't just as easily have without silly superstitions and supernatural hogwash.

[Sogeking]

Hmm. Well I posted in this thread liek 2 years ago, but I see that I can't change my vote. D:

Anyway, I've converted from Christianity to Atheism (Would I say converted? O_o)

Why? If you don't mind me asking?

[Suicune]

Why? If you don't mind me asking?

Well I just reconsidered my views after hearing that of others and if I really believed my own or not.

I concluded that I do not believe in Christianity as strongly as I thought I did after really thinking about it.

[Death]

why not?

Don't even get me started on that one.

sure, there's proof to say he does not exist

Not so much proof that he doesn't (coming to think of it, I don't think you can prove that there isn't a flying spaghetti monster flying round a neighbouring star), but more that there is zero evidence that he does.

feels they have a close relationship with him

I've never understood why people say that they feel God except to seek attention. Not being funny, but I find it hard to believe that you can have a relationship to someone you can't even see or hear.

[Limelight788]

I am a Christian. Enough said.

[Sogeking]

I've never understood why people say that they feel God except to seek attention. Not being funny, but I find it hard to believe that you can have a relationship to someone you can't even see or hear.

How's that attention seeking?

[Death]

How's that attention seeking?

Because it's an accepted fact that feelings are messages involving the brain. I don't see why people have to say that God is the root of emotion when it is your brain which is getting you to feel it.

I am a Christian. Enough said.

Enough said? Am I to assume you have absolutely nothing with which to justify yourself? I'm not sure if you read this forum's description, but this is a place to debate. So why aren't you giving us any sort of reason why you believe what you believe?

[Limelight788]

Enough said? Am I to assume you have absolutely nothing with which to justify yourself? I'm not sure if you read this forum's description, but this is a place to debate. So why aren't you giving us any sort of reason why you believe what you believe?The reason why I'm leaving my opinion on religion as it is, is because from experience, religion can be a very sensitive subject to talk about and not something I want to get into an debate about, because it leads to arguing (Which isn't always bad), which also, if you're not careful, leads to one or both sides getting desperate to make their argument look good by using ad hominem at the other side. Another thing is that religion arguments usually do not get much of anywhere and if they do, it takes a very long time for it, more then I'm willing to waste arguing religion. Religion has also been a source of wars between societies. In the end, all I wanted to say that I worship a religion, I don't need to support it if I believe it, there are other things that I find much more worthy to discuss.

[deadpie]

The reason why I'm leaving my opinion on religion as it is, is because from experience, religion can be a very sensitive subject to talk about and not something I want to get into an debate about, because it leads to arguing (Which isn't always bad), which also, if you're not careful, leads to one or both sides getting desperate to make their argument look good by using ad hominem at the other side. Another thing is that religion arguments usually do not get much of anywhere and if they do, it takes a very long time for it, more then I'm willing to waste arguing religion. Religion has also been a source of wars between societies. In the end, all I wanted to say that I worship a religion, I don't need to support it if I believe it, there are other things that I find much more worthy to discuss.

Did you realize you're posting in ROTW, which is purposely for debates? Have you not noticed that this 89 page thread is nothing but debating for and against religion and everything inbetween?

[Apparitions]

I love you God
Shame he/she/it/they don't exist, then. It's like me saying "I love you, Flying Spaghetti Monster" or something. There's an equal amount of evidence for both deities: none.

By the way, it's good to have this thread back (and good to see Death making religionists look silly as well ;) ). I missed debating with deluded theists over their silly beliefs in made-up gods that have never shown themselves to us in recent times (funny, that. They apparently do it all the time 2,000 years or so ago but don't bother to now. To me this shows two things: either it doesn't exist and silly religionists (as I will now call them) are deluded and have wasted their lives or their God doesn't love them/care about them (more on this idea, but I can't be bothered to list the various reasons why I think even if it did exist then God is heartless, not all-forgiving and all-loving, judgmental and violent).

[Death]

The reason why I'm leaving my opinion on religion as it is, is because from experience, religion can be a very sensitive subject to talk about and not something I want to get into an debate about,

I'm going to have to agree with deadpie on this. If you don't want to debate, you've quite simply come to the wrong place.

Shame he/she/it/they don't exist, then. It's like me saying "I love you, Flying Spaghetti Monster" or something. There's an equal amount of evidence for both deities: none.

By the way, it's good to have this thread back (and good to see Death maling religionists look silly as well ;) ). I missed debating with deluded theists over their silly beliefs in made-up gods that have never shown themselves to us in recent times (funny, that. They apparently do it all the time 2,000 years or so ago but don't bother to now. To me this shows two things: they don't exist and silly religionists (as I will now call them) or their God doesn't love them/care about them (more on this idea, but I can't be bothered to list the various reasons why I think even if it did exist then God is heartless, not all-forgiving and all-loving, judgmental and violent).

Hahaha, your militant, yet sincerely logical, arguments to religionists like Virtual Guy are why I've got to fucking love you. :rolleyes:

[Apparitions]

Hahaha, your militant, yet sincerely logical, arguments to religionists like Virtual Guy are why I've got to fucking love you. :rolleyes:
I love you too, bro. Wanna have an Atheist wedding completely void of anything that considered to be religious?

Also, people refusing to debate on a FORUM AND THREAD WHERE YOU DEBATE is fucking hilarious. Seriously, are these people for real? Do they think that by coming onto this thread and saying "I love God", "There is a God" and refusing to explain themselves, we will all suddenly change our stances on religion because you came on here and said so? Imagine if Dawkins/Hitchens/Einstein/anybody who debates religion turned up for some high-profile debate and said "There isn't a God and I have evidence that disproves their supposed existence, but I don't want to show you. Thank you for turning up, and good night". They wouldn't get away with it then so why do some people on here think they can on this thread? Silly religionists...

[Death]

I love you too, bro. Wanna have an Atheist wedding completely void of anything that considered to be religious?

Knowing religion, this would probably be the only wedding we would be able to have. In most places at least.

Also, people refusing to debate on a FORUM AND THREAD WHERE YOU DEBATE is fucking hilarious.

I know exactly what you mean. I had this on my "Homosexuals - Born or Become?" thread, except that it went on for what seemed to be nearly a page. Probably shouldn't say more than that right now.

Seriously, are these people for real? Do they think that by coming onto this thread and saying "I love God", "There is a God" and refusing to explain themselves, we will all suddenly change our stances on religion because you came on here and said so? Imagine if Dawkins/Hitchens/Einstein/anybody who debates religion turned up for some high-profile debate and said "There isn't a God and I have evidence that disproves their supposed existence, but I don't want to show you. Thank you for turning up, and good night". They wouldn't get away with it then so why do some people on here think they can on this thread? Silly religionists...

You're right of course, but I can kinda see why they would do it. People like Dawkins (and me) have likely already gone through the stage of critical thinking when becoming an atheist and will from their experiences with religion be able to know how to argue against it. If you look at a lot of religious people however, some of them have only been brought up with religion drilled into them from infancy and will probably have not experienced true 'atheism' until coming onto the internet. Rather succinct for an upbringing if you think about it.

[deadpie]

I've pondered this very simple thoughts allot, but I never get any interesting answers:

Why does a higher power have to exist? Do we really need a higher power at this point? I mean, look at all the things we've accomplished and created.

If you think prayer helps, then picture this scenario: You're a married religious parent and your child breaks her leg. Do you pray for it to be fixed or do yo go to a hospital for help? Which is the obviously more logical one to chose? Now, once that doctor has fixed your child's leg, you better be thanking the damn hospital and not your higher power. You know damn well who fixed that leg.

See, with the technology and medical science now, is a higher power really useful or important now?


Also, a tumblr friend of mine said this and I thought I'd share it:

I do not understand the idea of “faith”.
Gods plan is apparently:
Create humans with no knowledge of why they exist.
Never offer them any direct proof of what is going on behind the scenes.
But still punish them for not believing the right thing.
God is basically a game show host challenging people to pick the right mystery door.
I don’t trust any conception of the universe that requires you to believe that it exists. If I don’t believe in gravity, its still there. But for some reason God needs faith.

[Peace God]

If you think prayer helps, then picture this scenario: You're a married religious parent and your child breaks her leg. Do you pray for it to be fixed or do yo go to a hospital for help? Which is the obviously more logical one to chose? Now, once that doctor has fixed your child's leg, you better be thanking the damn hospital and not your higher power. You know damn well who fixed that leg.


See, with the technology and medical science now, is a higher power really useful or important now?
Another good one is the fact that people have faith that god will cure the sick, yet no one expects an amputee to grow their limbs back.

[Leviathan]

I used to be a muslim, my parents brought me up as a muslim but now im not.

[embers]

I used to be a muslim, my parents brought me up as a muslim but now im not.

Reminds me of the days I'd get sharp intakes of breath when I said 'I don't believe in God' in Islamiat lessons...

[Magus]

Reminds me of the days I'd get sharp intakes of breath when I said 'I don't believe in God' in Islamiat lessons...You say that here, and it's your neck that kisses the blade of the sword. Apostasy is still a big deal in all Islamic nation, no matter how much secular the country is.

[Death]

You say that here, and it's your neck that kisses the blade of the sword. Apostasy is still a big deal in all Islamic nation, no matter how much secular the country is.

I sincerely hope you're not proud of this.

[Magus]

I sincerely hope you're not proud of this.

It causes problems to us, the non-religious or ex-Muslims. We have serious problems in expressing our views.

Anyone who is critical about Islam or becomes an apostate, will certainly get a long jail sentence, if not the utmost beheading.

[embers]

You say that here, and it's your neck that kisses the blade of the sword. Apostasy is still a big deal in all Islamic nation, no matter how much secular the country is.

At least the blade kissing my neck would be a legal one, and not a mob of smelly ignorant twats looking to rape my fucking eyes out.

But I wouldn't call Pakistan secular. Nooooo fuckin way.

[hollister_]

atheism. been that way since I was little

[Magus]

But I wouldn't call Pakistan secular. Nooooo fuckin way.

I am not going to visit Pakistan, until I see reformation and stopping the Baluchi genocide.

I feel pity towards that Christian Pak who asked for reforming some rules, instead he gets killed by some extremest. Oh, yeah, religion of peace, I can now clearly see that.

[Death]

Anyone who is critical about Islam or becomes an apostate, will certainly get a long jail sentence, if not the utmost beheading.

No offense, but isn't that hypoctitical? These people demand that you give the utmost of respect to Islam whilst they deprive those who do not from their human right to life?

[Raiders]

Im religious, I believe in God, but I dont think its cool when anyone hates on what you believe in, if thats what you believe thats cool, im not going to force my ideas on you. Theres just no reason to be judgmental and hateful because of someones believe, judge by their character :P

[Sage]

I dont think its cool when anyone hates on what you believe in

I believe stupid things and people should be criticized. Are you cool with that belief?

[Magus]

No offense, but isn't that hypoctitical? These people demand that you give the utmost of respect to Islam whilst they deprive those who do not from their human right to life?

Yes indeed.

That's why there are many critics of Islam and Muslim reformists. That's what in the Sharia mostly. Many will find that Islam is an authoritarian system under the guise of religion.

[Raiders]

I believe stupid things and people should be criticized. Are you cool with that belief?

Yeah I guess, criticism can be a good thing. But criticizing people just to be an asshole and start a fight isnt cool, not saying you are just saying my beliefs. Criticism is only good to a certain point, then its just mean and pisses people off. Haha

[Death]

Yes indeed.

That's why there are many critics of Islam and Muslim reformists. That's what in the Sharia mostly. Many will find that Islam is an authoritarian system under the guise of religion.

I suppose it will depend on the person. Not all Islam followers will have that agressive outlook.

Yeah I guess, criticism can be a good thing. But criticizing people just to be an asshole and start a fight isnt cool, not saying you are just saying my beliefs. Criticism is only good to a certain point, then its just mean and pisses people off. Haha

Do remember that this is a debate thread and critism of anything to do with religion (or the lack thereof) here is only to be expected.

[Raiders]

Do remember that this is a debate thread and critism of anything to do with religion (or the lack thereof) here is only to be expected.[/QUOTE]

I know, I know. Im just saying you dont have to be meeeean with your criticism, thats all!

[Death]

I know, I know. Im just saying you dont have to be meeeean with your criticism, thats all!

'Mean' is a subjective term. One person may be refuting another person's core beliefs by pointing out logical fallacies which they think is acceptable whilst the other person takes offense at having what they've been brought up to believe at infancy being told to be false and think the other person is being mean.