Religion

[The Batman]

It's called faith.

[Perseus]

(Im pretty sure that y'all will say that this is a hoax or something) But what about the book 90 minutes in heaven? He says that he went to heaven and all of that stuff(me personally have not read the book, so I probally shouldn't be talking about it, but heh.)

[theOperaGhost]

I know what it is called, but faith baffles me. It's an all out trust in something you've never seen? I have a hard enough time trusting people in which I can see.

[dyslexiaa]

You don't really get converted to atheism. I am also listed under Christianity on the poll. I kind of think I had similar experiences as he did. I started going to an evangelical group and it just all seemed fake from then on. These forums had nothing to do with it. If you really begin to think logically all organized religion doesn't make sense. I consider myself to be agnostic. I think there is a possibility of there being a higher power out there, but I have absolutely no evidence so I don't see any reason to worship it.

If there is a powerful being out there, what makes you think it cares about us? You probably don't believe life exists anywhere else in the universe, do you? This universe is so vast that why would a God care about one infinitesimal speck? It really makes no sense.

You can argue that through omnipotence, God can and will care about everything that exists. The fact that anything exists (not even considering the miracle that is life) could be a 'proof' of that if you have enough faith in it. Just my thoughts on that. I won't go back into the free will vs. omnipotence thing because it's something athiests and theists alike can't comprehend.

What is there to explain? It's apologetic bullshit? Neither the Qu'ran or the Bible share and "hidden" knowledge of the universe. They certainly contain thousands of vague passages, that in the light of new scientific breakthroughs the religious love to go back to them and re-interpret them to somehow fit in with our new understanding. Don't like that passage just "owned" me There wasn't anything of value in it at all.

I'm interested on your perspective of Deism and general spirituality. I can agree with you that a majority of organized religion is crock of shit, just with the way everything it preached hatefully.

[INFERNO]

(Im pretty sure that y'all will say that this is a hoax or something) But what about the book 90 minutes in heaven? He says that he went to heaven and all of that stuff(me personally have not read the book, so I probally shouldn't be talking about it, but heh.)

And how exactly can he prove he went to heaven? For all we know, he could be lying quite well or took some hallucinogen and believed to be in heaven when really he was high as a kite. Or, he simply was lucid dreaming. I can do the exact same thing: lie or have some weird dream about flying trees eating goats and say I've visited another planet, or that I dreamt I was in fire and went and returned from hell. Either way, I consider that book to be a hoax and anyone who believes it needs to get themselves sorted out.

[Perseus]

And how exactly can he prove he went to heaven? For all we know, he could be lying quite well or took some hallucinogen and believed to be in heaven when really he was high as a kite. Or, he simply was lucid dreaming. I can do the exact same thing: lie or have some weird dream about flying trees eating goats and say I've visited another planet, or that I dreamt I was in fire and went and returned from hell. Either way, I consider that book to be a hoax and anyone who believes it needs to get themselves sorted out.

What is lucid dreaming? And also, if it wasn't "lucid" dreaming, why would a christian lie about that, to get fame?

[Clawhammer]

I call myself a Christian because I follow Christ. I've read a fair amount of replies on this thing, and most of you people I agree with. Many "churches" out there are not what they think. They see someone different, and they run away and shun you. I believe that when someone is saved who, for example is covered in tattoos, should keep getting tattoos as long as his heart is right with God. I don't care what you believe about Adam and Eve, or whatnot, just keep your heart right with God. There's a never-ending book that I could put on this post about religions, but I'll have mercy.

As for all the Christians out there, GET WITH IT!!!!! You shouldn't be afraid of falling, just go out and make disciples. "All authority on heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptising them and teaching them to obey all I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always even to the very end of the age." If you read the Bible, then you will recognise these as the last words from Christ to the twelve. Do you think someone like him use his last words to say something of little importance?

All in all, I hope I've made my points, and that my fellow Christians would know that salvation is by faith alone. You can't work your way into heaven. remember those words.

[theOperaGhost]

What is lucid dreaming? And also, if it wasn't "lucid" dreaming, why would a christian lie about that, to get fame?

Simple as that..to get fame. Or else he's been brainwashed by religion so much that he believes he went to heaven and had to spread his good word to everyone. He might believe he went to heaven in his mind, and there is no way to prove it or not. It was more than likely a hallucination or a dream though.

[JacobHerrington]

I just learned thjat mone we pay in thies is used to pay the pastor.
well that proves that relgion is a scam.
If thers ia god ill find him without religion.
Im done with organized religions.
churches are fake.

Merged with religion sticky. -thePianoMan

[dyslexiaa]

Simple as that..to get fame. Or else he's been brainwashed by religion so much that he believes he went to heaven and had to spread his good word to everyone. He might believe he went to heaven in his mind, and there is no way to prove it or not. It was more than likely a hallucination or a dream though.

And how exactly can he prove he went to heaven? For all we know, he could be lying quite well or took some hallucinogen and believed to be in heaven when really he was high as a kite. Or, he simply was lucid dreaming. I can do the exact same thing: lie or have some weird dream about flying trees eating goats and say I've visited another planet, or that I dreamt I was in fire and went and returned from hell. Either way, I consider that book to be a hoax and anyone who believes it needs to get themselves sorted out.

http://www.nderf.org/
http://www.near-death.com/

There's cases of people having vivid visions well being declared brain-dead, which kinda rules out having a dream. Hallucination or not, the near-death experience thing might be interesting to bring up here. I haven't read a lot of the websites, personally, but it could probably bring something to the argument going on here.

[theOperaGhost]

Can what they say be proven? If they are brain dead, how can they remember things happening? Why couldn't they have just had a hallucination when they came back into consciousness?

[ThatCanadianGuy]

All in all, I hope I've made my points, and that my fellow Christians would know that salvation is by faith alone. You can't work your way into heaven. remember those words.

I guess you don't realize how horrible that is, what you've just said. Basically, as long as you believe in Jesus etc. you can get into heaven. Looks like Hitler is in heaven, along with Jeffrey Dahmer and countless other people who are otherwise completely evil.... but they had faith! So they're in heaven now.

You could be a serial killer, do unspeakable things... but if you repent on your death bed, you get saved.

Now when us rational people live GOOD lives, and are generally good people and treat everyone properly.... oh no. We get to burn in hell forever just because we don't have faith in the Jewish Zombie.

[Perseus]

I guess you don't realize how horrible that is, what you've just said. Basically, as long as you believe in Jesus etc. you can get into heaven. Looks like Hitler is in heaven, along with Jeffrey Dahmer and countless other people who are otherwise completely evil.... but they had faith! So they're in heaven now.

You could be a serial killer, do unspeakable things... but if you repent on your death bed, you get saved.

Now when us rational people live GOOD lives, and are generally good people and treat everyone properly.... oh no. We get to burn in hell forever just because we don't have faith in the Jewish Zombie.

Lol, why do you refer to him as the Jewish Zombie all the time? And if you are a serial killer and you do unspeakable things and you repent, you do go to heaven, but when I heard this I was like are you serious? That's the most fucked up thing I heard and I think that is just stupid and Im gonna be honest with yall.. I think even if you dont believe in God and as long as you're good, you should go to heaven, but I have no say in that. And also, TCG, you made my day with your new video. :D

[dyslexiaa]

Can what they say be proven? If they are brain dead, how can they remember things happening? Why couldn't they have just had a hallucination when they came back into consciousness?

I'm guessing you can't necessarily prove them, but with the consistent themes of seeing your body, the white light, peacefulness, there could be some validity to it. Individual hallucinations might be unreliable sources, but when a group of people consistently have the same hallucinations, the possibility of a spirit could be considered.

http://www.near-death.com/triggers.html

I'm guessing they could remember things through spirit and there's no definite answer to whether they just hallucinated on awakening. I haven't read into it and I'm not defending it, I just throw things out there to put a different perspective on things aside from the normal arguments. :D

[theOperaGhost]

One person comes forward with a report of seeing the afterlife. Everyone has heard the story. It's unconscious persuasion basically.

It's a form of hypnosis. Like for instance, you can sit on a bench with a bunch of people and say...cross your legs. Eventually, nearly everyone on that bench will have their legs crossed. The mind is VERY persuaded by what you've seen or heard or whatever.

[dyslexiaa]

One person comes forward with a report of seeing the afterlife. Everyone has heard the story. It's unconscious persuasion basically.

It's a form of hypnosis. Like for instance, you can sit on a bench with a bunch of people and say...cross your legs. Eventually, nearly everyone on that bench will have their legs crossed. The mind is VERY persuaded by what you've seen or heard or whatever.

This kinda contradicts..

Simple as that..to get fame. Or else he's been brainwashed by religion so much that he believes he went to heaven and had to spread his good word to everyone. He might believe he went to heaven in his mind, and there is no way to prove it or not. It was more than likely a hallucination or a dream though.

that. There would have to be a study on people who are predisposed to near-death experience that experienced near-death experiences, but I see where you're coming from. You could argue that anything experienced at all is us training our mind to think, but then we go into some kind-of 'The Matrix' bullshit.

[theOperaGhost]

The Simple as that was to the question...why'd he say that, to get fame? There are several explanations for these experiences.

[Perseus]

The Simple as that was to the question...why'd he say that, to get fame? There are several explanations for these experiences.

What do you mmean by "several explanations for these experiences?"

[theOperaGhost]

What do you mmean by "several explanations for these experiences?"

I've already given several explanations for why people have had afterlife experiences. I'm not going to repeat them.

[Perseus]

Oh, sorry.

[dyslexiaa]

The Simple as that was to the question...why'd he say that, to get fame? There are several explanations for these experiences.

A near-death experience, or NDE, is a profound psychological and spiritual phenomenon that typically occurs during a trauma, health crisis or clinical death, although similar experiences can happen spontaneously in emotionally intense situations or during every-day life. Each near-death experience is unique, but as a group NDEs display common features. By itself, coming close to death without any of these special features is not what is meant by a "near-death experience."

No scientific explanation so far accounts for all aspects of NDEs or their effects. For example, lack of oxygen is not a factor in all NDEs, nor is the presence of drugs. Whereas hallucinations tend to be individual, and produce confusion and hazy memories, NDEs follow a broad general pattern that crosses cultures; they remain in memory for decades as being "realer than real." The research continues.

Source: http://www.iands.org/

While you offered explanations, they're just as valid as my theories on it.

This article shows the validity of your claim through REM and sleep cycles, but doesn't rule out a spiritual dimension:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4898726.stm

Here's a list of NDEs, in case you can find something interesting:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/7624767.stm

[Perseus]

I thought of this last night before I went to bed. oK, the Binle says that heaven is a different universe, and people back in A.D. 0-1000 didn't really know that much about the universe it slf, so explain that.

[INFERNO]

What is lucid dreaming? And also, if it wasn't "lucid" dreaming, why would a christian lie about that, to get fame?

Lucid dreaming is when you are in a dream and you are aware that you are dreaming such that you can control, participate and manipulate the dream you're in.

And I think you answered your own question: to get fame. Not only is he a christian, but he's the man who went to heaven and back. That's quite a heavy title.

I thought of this last night before I went to bed. oK, the Binle says that heaven is a different universe, and people back in A.D. 0-1000 didn't really know that much about the universe it slf, so explain that.

Coming from someone whose so devout in their belief, I assumed you could spell Bible properly. Spelling and grammar errors aside, back then and still now, people are capable of doing many of the same things. One of them is having an imagination. You don't need to know of the universe to imagine some wonderful place when you die that's elsewhere.

Another example, one which is more recent than your question but demonstrates the power of imagination to discovering something. In 1921, Otto Loewi dreamt of an experimental design that he didn't quite understand, so he woke up, wrote it down then went back to sleep. The experiment was as follows: two jars are filled with fluid and connected by a small bridge. Each jar contains a frog's heart, and both hearts are linked up to a recording device (I'll assume an oscilloscope), but only 1 of the hearts was stimulated electrically on the vagus nerve (a cranial nerve to the heart). As the stimulation increased, that heart beat faster, and so did the other one which was not stimulated. When stimulation decreased, both hearts also decreased their beats. The explanation was that the vagus nerve secretes a neurotransmitter or chemical, when stimulated. To increase, it secretes epinephrine (adrenaline, or EP) and to decrease, it secretes acetylcholine (ACh). Norepinephrine (noradrenalin or NE) was later discovered.

The above is just one of the many examples of imagination discovering something. Another example, although I don't know the date off the top of my head, was Kekule who dreamt of the benzene ring (C6H6), and lo' and behold, it was true and existed.

So, my point of these ever-so-exciting examples is that you don't need knowledge of something to imagine it. What sparked the person's imagination to dream of a nice paradise for those who are good when they die? For their souls or spirits or whatever to rest, look down upon them, help them, etc... .

[Clawhammer]

I guess you don't realize how horrible that is, what you've just said. Basically, as long as you believe in Jesus etc. you can get into heaven. Looks like Hitler is in heaven, along with Jeffrey Dahmer and countless other people who are otherwise completely evil.... but they had faith! So they're in heaven now.

You could be a serial killer, do unspeakable things... but if you repent on your death bed, you get saved.

Now when us rational people live GOOD lives, and are generally good people and treat everyone properly.... oh no. We get to burn in hell forever just because we don't have faith in the Jewish Zombie.

You are missing the fact that there is a difference between faith and believing. You believe that there is a God in heaven? Honestly, even satan knows that! My pint here is that Faith and Believing are two entirely different things.

[Perseus]

Lucid dreaming is when you are in a dream and you are aware that you are dreaming such that you can control, participate and manipulate the dream you're in.

And I think you answered your own question: to get fame. Not only is he a christian, but he's the man who went to heaven and back. That's quite a heavy title.



Coming from someone whose so devout in their belief, I assumed you could spell Bible properly. Spelling and grammar errors aside, back then and still now, people are capable of doing many of the same things. One of them is having an imagination. You don't need to know of the universe to imagine some wonderful place when you die that's elsewhere.

Another example, one which is more recent than your question but demonstrates the power of imagination to discovering something. In 1921, Otto Loewi dreamt of an experimental design that he didn't quite understand, so he woke up, wrote it down then went back to sleep. The experiment was as follows: two jars are filled with fluid and connected by a small bridge. Each jar contains a frog's heart, and both hearts are linked up to a recording device (I'll assume an oscilloscope), but only 1 of the hearts was stimulated electrically on the vagus nerve (a cranial nerve to the heart). As the stimulation increased, that heart beat faster, and so did the other one which was not stimulated. When stimulation decreased, both hearts also decreased their beats. The explanation was that the vagus nerve secretes a neurotransmitter or chemical, when stimulated. To increase, it secretes epinephrine (adrenaline, or EP) and to decrease, it secretes acetylcholine (ACh). Norepinephrine (noradrenalin or NE) was later discovered.

The above is just one of the many examples of imagination discovering something. Another example, although I don't know the date off the top of my head, was Kekule who dreamt of the benzene ring (C6H6), and lo' and behold, it was true and existed.

So, my point of these ever-so-exciting examples is that you don't need knowledge of something to imagine it. What sparked the person's imagination to dream of a nice paradise for those who are good when they die? For their souls or spirits or whatever to rest, look down upon them, help them, etc... .

Im sorry that i was in a rush when I was typing that and spelt Bible wrong, but what you are saying is that if you imagine it, it can be possibly real. Im going to throw out this guy I saw on the History channel like 2 years ago, so I dont remember his name, well sometimes when he went to sleep, he dreamt of magical places like Atlantis and he thought he could see the future, well some things he saw in his "visions" came to be real, is that what you're implying?

[INFERNO]

Im sorry that i was in a rush when I was typing that and spelt Bilbe wrong, but what you are saying is that if you imagine it, it can be possibly real. Im going to throw out this guy I saw on the History channel like 2 years ago, so I dont remember his name, well sometimes when he went to sleep, he dreamt of magical places like Atlantis and he thought he could see the future, well some things he saw in his "visions" came to be real, is that hat you're implying?

Still didn't spell it properly...

No, you missed the point. I'm saying you don't need knowledge of something to imagine it. Referring back to the example of Otto Loewi, he knew what a jar, frog's heart, oscilloscope, etc... were individually. But, he didn't know stimulation of the vagus nerve would secrete chemicals, he imagined or dreamt it.

He imagined or dreamt of something he didn't actually knew existed. That is my point. Whether it actually came to be real or not is something different and for my point, doesn't matter. Perhaps it was my fault of choosing examples where things did come to be real that made the point somewhat difficult to understand.

[Vermillion]

I'm Christian. Not stupid-Christian, but "Love thy neighboor" Christian.

[Sage]

I'm Christian. Not stupid-Christian, but "Love thy neighboor" Christian.

What do you mean by 'stupid-Christian'? And you know, it's totally possible to "Love thy neighbour" and do other good things for secular causes. I don't particularly need the fear of eternal damnation to lend someone a hand.

[INFERNO]

I'm Christian. Not stupid-Christian, but "Love thy neighboor" Christian.

Care to explain what you mean by not stupid-christian and love thy neighbor christian?

[RsHsChK2012]

....

[Camazotz]

^^ umm he got in a car wreck that almost killed him? deffinetly wasnt high.

We lack the proof that he wasn't high, therefore we must consider the possibility that the driver could have been under the influence. Making the story up is also another possibility.

[Sage]

wtc? the whole point in bein a christian is BELIEVIN IN JESUS! thats what the christ part of the word christian is for.(;

RsHsChK2012, the post you're quoting is from three years ago. >>;

[INFERNO]

^^ umm he got in a car wreck that almost killed him? deffinetly wasnt high.

So? Getting in a car wreck doesn't make his story any more valid, just turns it into fancy little story. I don't see how him getting in a car wreck somehow validates it. Prove to me he wasn't high or on something else. I still think it's complete bullshit and made up.

[robertsimms]

My views on religion are probably here somewhere in this topic , but i will go ahead and state them.

My religion:
I follow a West African religion called Ifa. It it a very ancient tradition and it is not based so much off of obligation as are the Abrahamic traditions (possibly because until recently it was not centralized except for a symbolic, yet powerless leader). It is monotheistic and polytheistic at the same time (hard to explain, message me for details).

My Views on Religion (I am not trying to sound high and mighty; these are simply my opinions):
If one interprets ANY holy book/scripture symbolically, then they will see that all of the world's major religions are rooted in the same central philosophies. There is always a higher being that is responsible for the creation of the universe, and lesser entities that are still nonetheless holy, but manifestations of nature and or energies commonly found in the universe. The main differences are basically geography, interpretation of the lesser entities that are between the higher entity and us people, and how far we will deviate from these beliefs to satisfy our agendas as a society.
I believe that this higher being (God, Brahma, Allah, etc.) is not a male or female, or a humanoid-looking figure or an it at all; i think that it is the higher, singular force that binds and connects everything in the universe. I do not know what that force is, but it is what exists everywhere in the universe.

My Views on Christianity:
I dont have too much of an issue over the core tenets and morals of Christianity; what i do have an issue with is that these are seldom followed. Although all of my convictions come from second or third-hand observations, I have come to the conclusion that Christianity indirectly discourages critical thinking. If you look at the 10 commandments, one of them says (not a direct quote) "Thou shalt have no gods before me, for I am a jealous god..." That implies that there is more than one god, right? Whenever I ask a deeply religious Christian about this, they say that there is only one deity, and his name is God. Hmmmmm... Also, many hardcore Christians I know (I live in the South, there is no shortage of them) say that other religions are promoting idol-worship, even Judaism and Islam (which both recognize the same god is present in all of the Abrahamic traditions) are worshipping the exact same deity Christians are, just in Arabic and Hebrew.
Also, what irks me immensely is how Christianity fails to give due credit to the Kemetian and Pagan religions. Most of the core doctrines in Christianity are stunningly similar to Ancient Kemetian traditions, and in order for the Europeans to initially accept Christianity, the church incorporated the Pagan holy rites into the religion (Easter is based off of the fertility festivals and Christmas is based off of the winter solstice celebrations.

As to the initial question, I think there is so much criticism and hatred because we as human beings fear what we do not know. If we all knew more about each religion, then there would be less criticism and bigotry, and we would realize that the similarities are far more prevalent that the differences.

[dyslexiaa]

If you look at the 10 commandments, one of them says (not a direct quote) "Thou shalt have no gods before me, for I am a jealous god..." That implies that there is more than one god, right? Whenever I ask a deeply religious Christian about this, they say that there is only one deity, and his name is God. Hmmmmm... Also, many hardcore Christians I know (I live in the South, there is no shortage of them) say that other religions are promoting idol-worship, even Judaism and Islam (which both recognize the same god is present in all of the Abrahamic traditions) are worshipping the exact same deity Christians are, just in Arabic and Hebrew.

You could argue that your interpretation of the first commandment is wrong. The first commandment could refer to metaphorical 'gods' like money, passion, wisdom, yourself, whatever; know what I mean? It stresses the importance of God. In the tribal context the Bible was written in, the tribes in Palestine each worshipped their own deity. The first commandment was used to bring in followers.

Judaism and Islam don't believe that Christ died for their sins, so you can see why Christians call it idol-worship. In my opinion, God reveals himself to different people and different ways. All religions are equally right and equally wrong.

[Never_Forget]

Haha for me if someone believes the bible is real they get slapped, period.

Knock some sense into the silly bitches.

[Camazotz]

Haha for me if someone believes the bible is real they get slapped, period.

Knock some sense into the silly bitches.

You know who the last infamous person who hurt someone for believing in a different religion? Remember Hitler and the Holocaust? You ever hear of Nero? Ever hear of the expulsion of the Jews and Muslims in the late fifteenth century in Spain? Do you know why pilgrims left Europe to come to North America? You ever hear of the First Amendment? People should be able to believe whatever they want to. Even if what they believe may not make sense scientifically, there is no reason to punish someone for their beliefs.

[MisterAndrews]

Haha for me if someone believes the bible is real they get slapped, period.

Knock some sense into the silly bitches.

Thats probably the most sickening sentence i've ever heard. It's people like YOU that make this world a bad place, not them. But I notice how highly you think of yourself, your signature says it all...

[The Batman]

Here's an idea. I believe in god and go about my business, and you don't believe and god and go about your business. Hows that?

[Camazotz]

Here's an idea. I believe in god and go about my business, and you don't believe and god and go about your business. Hows that?

While I agree that another's religion shouldn't matter, it's more fun to try and make your points to change the other person's belief (also known as debating). I personally love debating, and it helps you really think about what you believe. However, it is important we all respect the other's opinions and do not bash any ideas.

[roof]

Atheism ftw
religion causes too much evil and misfortune for any religion to be right
plus a lack of evidence of an all good all powerful being confirms my beleif

[Oblivion]

Here's an idea. I believe in god and go about my business, and you don't believe and god and go about your business. Hows that?

Exactly.
I would have never gotten into the religious debates if someone hadn't tried to personally convert me.
I don't mind if you have your own religion, as long as you don't try to impose it on me.

[Camazotz]

Exactly.
I would have never gotten into the religious debates if someone hadn't tried to personally convert me.
I don't mind if you have your own religion, as long as you don't try to impose it on me.

I know how that feels. Many of my friends are Christian, and when I told them I was atheist, they began to argue how I was wrong and how I was going to Hell. I tried to tell them why I was atheist, but they still argued with me. I felt that many of them are thinking differently of me because of my religion, which is wrong.

[left footed mofo]

I used to be christain, then i realized that if the christain god existed, the world wouldn't have people me (autistic that is)

[Clawhammer]

I used to be christain, then i realized that if the christain god existed, the world wouldn't have people me (autistic that is)

And why wouldn't people such as yourself be around?

[Sage]

I used to be christain, then i realized that if the christain god existed, the world wouldn't have people me (autistic that is)

Not necessarily, christians will generally argue the original sin (Adam and Eve and all that.) is the cause of all suffering in the world.

[Curthose93]

Not necessarily, christians will generally argue the original sin (Adam and Eve and all that.) is the cause of all suffering in the world.

But religion causes suffering, so do they mean to say that Adam and Eve created religion? So they admit that religion was created by humans?

[Cloud]

no its saying that adam and eve taking the apples from the tree was the sin which led the world into the suffering. not that they created religion but that they caused suffering

[Sage]

Indeed. There's no evidence that two such people even existed, it's simply a story in the Bible that accounts for suffering in the world today. "We're all born sinners" is the basic premise.

[Clawhammer]

Because Adam and Eve took the apple, the world was changed. The animals became wild, Adam had to hunt for food and work the soil, and their descendants were cursed. THAT is why there is suffering in our religion and Christians also suffer, as well as others.

[vito22andolini]

First off , christians , nothing realy proves the existance of a god
Muslims....well its kinda related to christianism
science...is the one that makes the most sense cause it has proofs
and i think christianism is racist and not open to other ideas , such as homosexuality

[Perseus]

Elaborate on how you think the Christian religion is racist.

[INFERNO]

First off , christians , nothing realy proves the existance of a god
Muslims....well its kinda related to christianism
science...is the one that makes the most sense cause it has proofs
and i think christianism is racist and not open to other ideas , such as homosexuality

I agree, it is narrow-minded. But, explain how it's racist.

Nothing proves nor disproves God's existence.

[MisterAndrews]

Nothing proves nor disproves God's existence.

Thats one thing which im sure we all can agree on... we'll never actually be able to prove anything about the nature of God.

First off , christians , nothing realy proves the existance of a god
Muslims....well its kinda related to christianism
science...is the one that makes the most sense cause it has proofs
and i think christianism is racist and not open to other ideas , such as homosexuality

First off, it's Christianity, not christianism. Secondly, it's too big to say that it's ALL narrow minded, it's made up of a lot of seperate denominations which all believe slightly different things. For instance, Catholics (in theory, NOT in practice) do not agree with homosexual acts, however, the Church of England have Gay priests and Bishops. They are both christian denominations.

[Sage]

Thats one thing which im sure we all can agree on... we'll never actually be able to prove anything about the nature of God.

The existance of God and the nature of God are different things. No one can be sure of the existance of God, but you can't say anything about the nature of God without first assuming a God(s) exist.

First off, it's Christianity, not christianism.

I think I heard on Flashchat that english isn't his first language. Geez, lay off.

Secondly, it's too big to say that it's ALL narrow minded, it's made up of a lot of seperate denominations which all believe slightly different things. For instance, Catholics (in theory, NOT in practice) do not agree with homosexual acts, however, the Church of England have Gay priests and Bishops. They are both christian denominations.

I'll agree, it varies from religion to religion and among denominations. Some are rather laid back and accepting, where as others can be very ignorant and narrow minded.

[vito22andolini]

since some wanna know why christianism is racists , i'll explain . Those who enslaved ppl in africa , america (natives) were christians and were acting by orders of popes , priests or whatever they call themselves . and in racist i included the hate they have against homosexuals

[theOperaGhost]

Homosexuality is not a race...

[Perseus]

since some wanna know why christianism is racists , i'll explain . Those who enslaved ppl in africa , america (natives) were christians and were acting by orders of popes , priests or whatever they call themselves . and in racist i included the hate they have against homosexuals

Umm dude, obvioulsy you don''t know this. Black people had black slaves too.
And just because you follow a religion and have slaves, that doesn't mean its racist.
The High Priests etc.. did not order them to ahve slaves. The South in America had slaves so their economy wouldn't fail. Also, some of the African Governments would capture people and sell them to the slave trade.
So, do you think the Egyptian religion is racist since the Israelites were their slaves?

[bobtom]

First off , christians , nothing realy proves the existance of a god
Muslims....well its kinda related to christianism
science...is the one that makes the most sense cause it has proofs
and i think christianism is racist and not open to other ideas , such as homosexuality

Racist? No way. The first Apostles went to OTHER races to bring them the gospel. Philip went straight to the dreaded Samaritans who were hated by all the jews after they were broken up in Jerusalem.

I have 4 (maybe more coming) adopted African and 3 adopted Russian cousins. The Russians are too young to know too much about religion but all four Africans are Christians. My relatives adopted them because they wanted to give them a family and a home, and to bring Christ into their lives. We treat them the same and act the same around them.

That sound racist to you?

[INFERNO]

since some wanna know why christianism is racists , i'll explain . Those who enslaved ppl in africa , america (natives) were christians and were acting by orders of popes , priests or whatever they call themselves . and in racist i included the hate they have against homosexuals

Homosexuality is a race? Well, that's news to me. I assume heterosexuality is a race, as is bisexuality? What happens when someone transitions from heterosexuality to bi- or homosexuality? Do they suddenly become a completely different race? I'm interested in hearing your explanation on this.

Wait... so your logic is this: because some people of belief A enslaved others, then all of belief A is racist? No, that's utterly horrible logic. If anything, it means those specific people are racist not the entire belief.

[Cloud Spinner]

my faith... my faith... i have to keep it stronger....

that in all things.. God may be glorified... : )

[Camazotz]

my faith... my faith... i have to keep it stronger....

that in all things.. God may be glorified... : )

The reason I have trouble with faith is that you have no rational reason to believe in God. Most Christians believe in God because that's what they're told is right. They have blind belief in something, which shows gullibility.

[bobtom]

I know many Christians that were not told that believing in Him was right, but looked for Him on their own. If you know what I mean.

[Oblivion]

since some wanna know why christianism is racists , i'll explain . Those who enslaved ppl in africa , america (natives) were christians and were acting by orders of popes , priests or whatever they call themselves . and in racist i included the hate they have against homosexuals

Erm, I hate to burst your bubble, but in early America, a lot of people had slaves. Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, most rich people, and most important people had many slaves. It was common to be racist then, due to popular media, lack of knowledge, and money; so do not blame it on Christians. Also, by no means was slavery due to religion. It was purely for money; free-cheap labor makes a pure-profit economy. Not because religious leaders told everyone to get slaves.

Finally, homosexuality is an arising issue, which has not had enough time to be accepted as an OK thing. It will eventually though.

Not saying any of it is right, but to blame it solely on religion and Christians is just plain wrong. Which is coming from an Atheist.

[bobtom]

Catholics have popes. I don't think any other denomination has them....

We follow orders from noone, unless it is directly told to us by God or the bible..

(sounds like a cult doesn't it) :)

[lesher]

I didn't expect that atheism is the #2 on the polling amount... At least I'm not so stranger in religion in this forum site...

[Death]

The bible is far too far-fetched. If good magic and shit were to be true, why is the world corrupt today? Besides, the authors of the bible are bigoted and discriminate, no offence but it's clear that they have problems with so many perfectly acceptable things including athiesm, homosexuality, etcetera. That's why I don't bother with religion and I'm therefore athiest. I didn't mean to offend anyone in this post.

[Death]

(sounds like a cult doesn't it) :)

It is. Not all religions are but this one is definetely a cult.

[Sage]

It is. Not all religions are but this one is definetely a cult.

Well wait a moment, how are we defining a 'cult' here?

[bobtom]

The bible is far too far-fetched. If good magic and shit were to be true, why is the world corrupt today? Besides, the authors of the bible are bigoted and discriminate, no offence but it's clear that they have problems with so many perfectly acceptable things including athiesm, homosexuality, etcetera. That's why I don't bother with religion and I'm therefore athiest. I didn't mean to offend anyone in this post.

Im sorry but there wasnt athiesm when the bible was written. Also name one instance when they bigoted or discriminated someone. Please inform me...

[Camazotz]

Im sorry but there wasnt athiesm when the bible was written. Also name one instance when they bigoted or discriminated someone. Please inform me...

To assume the no one from ancient times did not believe in a god is ignorant. However, atheism was not accepted because the Christian society would stone any non-believers to death. As for bigoted...

Deuteronomy 22:5 "Women are not to wear men's clothing, and men are not to wear women's clothing; the Lord your God hates people who do such things." God hates people who cross-dress.

Last time I checked, hating someone for the way they dress is irrational.

And believe me, there are many other examples I can share if you wish fore more.

[Death]

And believe me, there are many other examples I can share if you wish fore more.

Allow me:

"And the fool hath said in his heart, there is no god."
I don't remember this exactly but it's a rough guess: "Neither the homosexuals, non-believers(there were more but I don't remember them) will inherit the land of God"

Already, we know that they are discriminitive against athiests and they are homophobes; that's just plain nasty. :mad: There's nothing wrong with being gay or lesbian, it's not something that you can control. It's like disliking a specific food. It's your brain making you dislike it; it's also your brain making you attracted to those of the same sex. The bible is very bigoted and I do not wish to become a bigot so I'm steering well away from religon!

[Clawhammer]

The reason I have trouble with faith is that you have no rational reason to believe in God. Most Christians believe in God because that's what they're told is right. They have blind belief in something, which shows gullibility.

The world cannot create itself, no more than a sword or a shoe can. How else can such things happen? The world cannot create itself through a random explosion in the middle of space. Our Faith is not blind, I, for one, have seen and also heard of many miracles. God is real, and I follow him.

[lesher]

Tell me then, have you ever seen God with your very own eyes?

1st, everything you heard just a testimonial from people, right? Even though ppl says, "It's true! I seen it with my own eyes!!", heve you ever saw it with yor own eyes? I doubt it.

2nd, how many prayers that you raised in front of Him, and how many does that prayers become true?
Even though our will isn't His will, but doesn't mean that He can ignore almost everything that we ask to Him... Or... Is there some disturbing secret about this?

I'm sorry, I think I overposted my opinion, but that's because I really curious about what you're gonna answer those 2 questions... And because I'm having bitter experience about God things (a.k.a. religion)

[Camazotz]

The world cannot create itself, no more than a sword or a shoe can. How else can such things happen? The world cannot create itself through a random explosion in the middle of space. Our Faith is not blind, I, for one, have seen and also heard of many miracles. God is real, and I follow him.

From what we know, you are correct. The world did not create itself. However, for me to assume God did it would be irrational because I don't know if he did or not. Same goes with polytheism, the belief in multiple deities. They could claim that multiple gods created the universe, but without evidence, I cannot rationally say that God or gods did it.

[Reality]

Catholics have popes. I don't think any other denomination has them....

We follow orders from noone, unless it is directly told to us by God or the bible..

(sounds like a cult doesn't it) :)
The Church of England (a branch of Protestants I believe) is headed by the King or Queen (atm it's Queen Elizabeth II) of the UK from back in the days of Henry VIII who defected from Catholicism and made himself head of the Church because the Pope wouldn't grant him a divorce from his wife who wouldn't give him a son.

If I'm not mistaken, Mormon's have some sort of divine belief in their founder, Joseph Smith, from the USA who founded his religion and believed in polygamy and believed that Mormons should run the USA, so he and some other guy ran for President.

So some parts of Christianity besides Catholicism do infact have a leader, if you're trying to say they don't.

[justanotherguy93]

does it really matter. as long as nobody forces their religion on u who cares. not to bag on relgions and all but i think they are a waste of time. im agnostic. and i say fallow ur own rules if it feels right do it.

[Clawhammer]

Tell me then, have you ever seen God with your very own eyes?

1st, everything you heard just a testimonial from people, right? Even though ppl says, "It's true! I seen it with my own eyes!!", heve you ever saw it with yor own eyes? I doubt it.

2nd, how many prayers that you raised in front of Him, and how many does that prayers become true?
Even though our will isn't His will, but doesn't mean that He can ignore almost everything that we ask to Him... Or... Is there some disturbing secret about this?

I'm sorry, I think I overposted my opinion, but that's because I really curious about what you're gonna answer those 2 questions... And because I'm having bitter experience about God things (a.k.a. religion)

There's hundreds of miracles everywhere. All you have to do is not overlook them and/or take them for granted. For example, let's take the universe. It goes on forever and ever, which is more than a human can easily comprehend. There's an eterernity of stars and other worlds out there. Don't you think that that's a miracle? Also, Camazotz, the only logical explanation if the world cannot and did not create itself, it that someone or something(s) else did. I believe that there is one true God, and that He is Christ. That's what I believe because I say the Bible is true, every word of it, and He has given me evidence, such as the above example of the universe.

[Sage]

There's hundreds of miracles everywhere. All you have to do is not overlook them and/or take them for granted. For example, let's take the universe. It goes on forever and ever, which is more than a human can easily comprehend. There's an eterernity of stars and other worlds out there. Don't you think that that's a miracle? Also, Camazotz, the only logical explanation if the world cannot and did not create itself, it that someone or something(s) else did. I believe that there is one true God, and that He is Christ. That's what I believe because I say the Bible is true, every word of it, and He has given me evidence, such as the above example of the universe.

Yes, indeed, this absolutely perfect Universe, in which we can observe countless failed solar systems, super novas, desolate wasteland worlds and meteor collisions. And don't tell me Earth is perfect- Not every place even on our own little world is hospitable, take the scortching deserts, ice-peaked mountains and hundreds of instable volcanic areas.

You say the only logical solution is that something created the Universe, but what created that something? You can't justify your theory without proposing a variable (God) that requires no creator in itself, when one could just as easily say the Universe needs no creator. You see the logical fallacy there?

Also, just because you attribute a miracle to a God does not mean that said God is responsible. Countless things we have today would've been considered miracles by ancient people- There are simply some things we do not yet understand, and there is no need to say 'God did it' because that gets us nowhere.

[lesher]

Ermm... You're not answering my question....

[House]

Tell me then, have you ever seen God with your very own eyes?

1st, everything you heard just a testimonial from people, right? Even though ppl says, "It's true! I seen it with my own eyes!!", heve you ever saw it with yor own eyes? I doubt it.

2nd, how many prayers that you raised in front of Him, and how many does that prayers become true?
Even though our will isn't His will, but doesn't mean that He can ignore almost everything that we ask to Him... Or... Is there some disturbing secret about this?

I'm sorry, I think I overposted my opinion, but that's because I really curious about what you're gonna answer those 2 questions... And because I'm having bitter experience about God things (a.k.a. religion)

From what I believe, you can't say I want to see god and you do, I believe that nobody (normal people) seen god, or spoke with him only in prayers (normal people).
God will not show him self whenever "you" want, and you have to know that god is not human.

For the second question, you can't always when you want something you get it. God made us, and made all the rules (ie gravity) So you can't just pray that you want to fly, and there you are, flying!

You can't see god but you see his creation every day, every where.

Thats just what I believe in...

[lesher]

Then if I don't have any proof, why should I believe Him in the fist place anyway?

I also have will that I'm pretty sure it will please Him, but no, my prayer isn't answered and I have even more problem than before.. Is He trying to kill me?

[INFERNO]

There's hundreds of miracles everywhere. All you have to do is not overlook them and/or take them for granted. For example, let's take the universe. It goes on forever and ever, which is more than a human can easily comprehend. There's an eterernity of stars and other worlds out there. Don't you think that that's a miracle? Also, Camazotz, the only logical explanation if the world cannot and did not create itself, it that someone or something(s) else did. I believe that there is one true God, and that He is Christ. That's what I believe because I say the Bible is true, every word of it, and He has given me evidence, such as the above example of the universe.

The "evidence" in the bible commits circular reasoning and the bare assertion fallacy. Hardly something that a book deemed to be so great should commit.

The universe can be evidence of the existence of a god(s) or goddess(es), however, it cannot determine which one(s) did it. You claim that your god did it. Why? Because he said he did, and he says he's all-good, so he probably wouldn't lie to you.

To show you why I think that this is so ridiculous, I'll apply the exact same logic:

Gthuilppa, the only true god created the universe because he says he did.
Gthuilppa is an all-powerful, omnipresent, all-knowing, all-good divine being who was never created by something but rather he just happened, he just existed and with a wave of his magic wand and pull of the right ear, he made the universe. He then spat on a fly, clapped his hands and after some wand waving, humans were made. He then wanted humans to obey 15 rules, so he made those rules and humans wrote testimonies saying that they saw him, they felt his power. If you do what he says, then you go to a land of hot sex but if you don't, then you get frozen into an ice cube while magical ice maggots eat you from the inside out.

Now, all of that up there is the EXACT SAME logic as what you claim to believe.

Do I think that the universe is a miracle? No. As of right now, we cannot explain how it formed, however, as science progresses, I'm sure we will unravel the mysteries.

[Clawhammer]

Because I pray to Him, my prayers are answered, and He assures me that He is the one true God through his works in my life and the lives of those around me. It's amazing what God has done in my family, and thus, how can I believe He isn't the one true God?

Also, you should remember that the Bible was written centuries ago. There is still much information in it that could have been recorded, but it isn't. It isn't perfect, but nothing is.

[Death]

Because I pray to Him, my prayers are answered, and He assures me that He is the one true God through his works in my life and the lives of those around me. It's amazing what God has done in my family, and thus, how can I believe He isn't the one true God?

What? Are you seriously telling me that God has spoken to you? Come on, if God existed, why did he never answer any of my prayers? What did God actually say to you? What has God actually done for you that other people haven't!? Unless you've started hallucinating and hearing things, there's no way this's happened. in fact, Christians believe that God created everything but no-one created God. Well, why can't you say that collecting matter didn't form a big bang that formed into everything and there wasn't any true creater for what was there beforehand? This is a concept that too many religious people can't grasp.

[lesher]

There is battle going on here....

[Death]

Yeah, you're probraly right.

[Camazotz]

There is battle going on here....

Yeah, you're probraly right.

Yes, this is a debate, so please post more constructive ideas next time.

I agree with Death. Christians believe in God because they see his "miracles" and their prayers are answered. I don't pray, but I usually get what I want because I work for it. I don't say, "God, let me do well at my basketball game" because I know it was all the practice I put in, not God doing it.

[lesher]

Unless you've started hallucinating and hearing things, there's no way this's happened
I agree, I felt this when I was on Christian, and that's why exactly I left Christian because of this "God spoke to me..." things.

I don't say, "God, let me do well at my basketball game" because I know it was all the practice I put in, not God doing it.
I also agreed on this. Everything we're capable of doing, is because we are CAPABLE on it. OR sometimes, because of LUCKY factor.

[Death]

Well, glad you two agree! :yes:

I also agree with Camazotz where he said that it was the practice which perfected his game - not God. Chistians say God did it just as an excuse becuase they don't want to think of the real variables that alter things.

[INFERNO]

Because I pray to Him, my prayers are answered, and He assures me that He is the one true God through his works in my life and the lives of those around me.

How has your god communicated with you? If he assures you, then somehow you two must talk in some way, yet as far as the bible is concerned, nobody has met god:

No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him (John 1:18)

Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see; to whom be honour and power everlasting (1 Timothy 6:16)

I shall assume that if you cannot see him, then it only fits to reason that you cannot hear him.


It's amazing what God has done in my family, and thus, how can I believe He isn't the one true God?

This isn't evidence for your god, hell, it isn't even evidence for a god in general.


Also, you should remember that the Bible was written centuries ago. There is still much information in it that could have been recorded, but it isn't. It isn't perfect, but nothing is.

Nothing is perfect? Excellent, you've admitted that your god is not perfect. This then calls into question whether your god is all-powerful, all-knowing and omnipresent.

[Death]

I couldn't agree with you more! In fact, if there were to be a perfect God, why is the world so corrupt (in areas)? Is your god not perfect like INFERNO suggested? Maybe he's just a lazy bastard - or he doesn't exist. That must be it, bible's just a story which is a con in order to ake people live their life a specific (if discriminate) way. Prayers are never answered; we must do everything ourself so, the god being mentioned here can't exist.

[Clawhammer]

Let's see, how can I explain this... He assures me that He is the one true God through His actions in my life. He hasn't literally spoken to anyone for about 2,000 years, as far as I know.
As far as why the world isn't perfect, He is, We're not. We aren't like Him, we tend to sin and revolt against Him, just like you people are doing now, and thus, the world isn't as good as it could be. And also, if you called God a lazy bastard within earshot of me, I would've killed you or died trying. Just because you don't believe something doesn't mean you have to be a blasphemer when they state their beliefs.

[Oblivion]

I don't see how it can be believed that the world can't start, yet a magical man int he sky that no one has ever heard or talked to or see for 2000 years can appear, and create the universe?

[Sage]

And also, if you called God a lazy bastard within earshot of me, I would've killed you or died trying.

There goes your credibility as a moral person.

[CookieMonster]

How has your god communicated with you? If he assures you, then somehow you two must talk in some way, yet as far as the bible is concerned, nobody has met god:

No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him (John 1:18)

Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see; to whom be honour and power everlasting (1 Timothy 6:16)

I shall assume that if you cannot see him, then it only fits to reason that you cannot hear him.



I'm going to jump in and answer this question with my own experiences. You don't have to see something to hear it. People talk to you over a phone, but you can't see them. When your inside and you hear the wind blow, but you can't see that. You know both of those things are there though, right?

God talks to us through our thoughts and actions of things around us, and many people he speaks to them directly. I've had several times where I am caught up on a very important decision and I don't know what to do. I'm leaning one way, but am not sure about it. I talk to God about it, most people call it praying, and I ask him what I should do. I don't hear words come from him, it's not like someone standing in front of you talking; I feel what he is saying. I'll feel what his answer is, I could have been leaning one way in the decision when suddenly I KNOW I need to choose the other option and doing anything else is just unthinkable.

It's different for everyone, and all depends on how close you are to God. People I know have said God speaks to them in words, and when you hear God speak you know it's him. He's not mistakable for your own thoughts.

And, prayer is not to beg for things from God, as many people seem to think. It's about talking to him and carrying on a conversation. Telling him about your day, how you feel about things and problems you have. He already knows it all, but by talking to him, relying on him he will help you through it. He won't necessarily make it go away, but he will help you see it through to the other side. He'll never give you more than you can handle without his help.

[Clawhammer]

I'm going to jump in and answer this question with my own experiences. You don't have to see something to hear it. People talk to you over a phone, but you can't see them. When your inside and you hear the wind blow, but you can't see that. You know both of those things are there though, right?

God talks to us through our thoughts and actions of things around us, and many people he speaks to them directly. I've had several times where I am caught up on a very important decision and I don't know what to do. I'm leaning one way, but am not sure about it. I talk to God about it, most people call it praying, and I ask him what I should do. I don't hear words come from him, it's not like someone standing in front of you talking; I feel what he is saying. I'll feel what his answer is, I could have been leaning one way in the decision when suddenly I KNOW I need to choose the other option and doing anything else is just unthinkable.

It's different for everyone, and all depends on how close you are to God. People I know have said God speaks to them in words, and when you hear God speak you know it's him. He's not mistakable for your own thoughts.

And, prayer is not to beg for things from God, as many people seem to think. It's about talking to him and carrying on a conversation. Telling him about your day, how you feel about things and problems you have. He already knows it all, but by talking to him, relying on him he will help you through it. He won't necessarily make it go away, but he will help you see it through to the other side. He'll never give you more than you can handle without his help.

Exactly what I've been trying to say. Thanks for helping.

[IfPiratesCouldFly]

sorrowsingssoftly,
If God is Omnipotent, he MUST be capable of being imperfect.
Also, if God made us with free will, he certainly has free will too, and that is what, in fact, makes us imperfect.
Therefore, he cannot be perfect.

He is also omnibenevolent and omnimalevolent, which means he could be good or terrible, good and evil.
However, God is said to be the image opposing Evil, which is Satan, but if God can be Evil, he could be more so evil than even Satan. He can BE Satan. He's omnipotent.
He also has the ability to simply not exist.

Also, to be perfect, you'd have to exceed everyone in every aspect possible, but to do that you'd have to have DONE everything too, meaning you'd have to be imperfect, and NOT exceed everyone, but him being imperfect would actually nullify the perfection, thereby proving that God is NOT perfect.

[Sage]

I'm going to jump in and answer this question with my own experiences. You don't have to see something to hear it. People talk to you over a phone, but you can't see them. When your inside and you hear the wind blow, but you can't see that. You know both of those things are there though, right?

God talks to us through our thoughts and actions of things around us, and many people he speaks to them directly. I've had several times where I am caught up on a very important decision and I don't know what to do. I'm leaning one way, but am not sure about it. I talk to God about it, most people call it praying, and I ask him what I should do. I don't hear words come from him, it's not like someone standing in front of you talking; I feel what he is saying. I'll feel what his answer is, I could have been leaning one way in the decision when suddenly I KNOW I need to choose the other option and doing anything else is just unthinkable.

It's different for everyone, and all depends on how close you are to God. People I know have said God speaks to them in words, and when you hear God speak you know it's him. He's not mistakable for your own thoughts.

And, prayer is not to beg for things from God, as many people seem to think. It's about talking to him and carrying on a conversation. Telling him about your day, how you feel about things and problems you have. He already knows it all, but by talking to him, relying on him he will help you through it. He won't necessarily make it go away, but he will help you see it through to the other side. He'll never give you more than you can handle without his help.

That's little more than applying a name to your conscience.

[Clawhammer]

A conscious is another name for instinct.

[IfPiratesCouldFly]

A conscious is another name for instinct.

No it's not.

A conscience is the deepest part of your mind. Your instinct is your reaction to something with no given thought.

[Clawhammer]

Alright, you win that one. But still, a conscious is yourself thinking and making decisions.

[lesher]

If I have free will and God already known that I'm going to revolt against Him, why don't He stop me just right that moment? Is He just plainly ignoring me? If I'm created for His purpose, that means I MUST do His purpose, and whenever I'm straying off-path, He should just destroy me, right?

Why would God do something complex if it can be simplified? Nobody wants complexity....

For example-> I created a robot and put an AI inside it. Then one day, I knew that the robot is going to kill me tomorrow because I forgot to erase unnecessary command line and already installed it to the robot.
What is the most logical thing for me to do to that robot? I must disable the robot and reinstall the command line again, right?

[Oblivion]

And also, if you called God a lazy bastard within earshot of me, I would've killed you or died trying. Just because you don't believe something doesn't mean you have to be a blasphemer when they state their beliefs.

Oh wow. Ever heard of freedom of speech? Freedom of religion? It's only the basis of America and the role model for many other countries in the world...

This scares me actually. I shouldn't be scared to have a lack of religion, yet now I am. I afraid that more people out there will have the same thoughts as you and harm me for simply believing and speaking my mind.


Whatever happened to "Thou shalt no kill"? Just wondering... I honestly doubt God would forgive you (if he were real) if you killed someone because they called him a name.

[INFERNO]

I'm going to jump in and answer this question with my own experiences. You don't have to see something to hear it. People talk to you over a phone, but you can't see them. When your inside and you hear the wind blow, but you can't see that. You know both of those things are there though, right?

God talks to us through our thoughts and actions of things around us, and many people he speaks to them directly. I've had several times where I am caught up on a very important decision and I don't know what to do. I'm leaning one way, but am not sure about it. I talk to God about it, most people call it praying, and I ask him what I should do. I don't hear words come from him, it's not like someone standing in front of you talking; I feel what he is saying. I'll feel what his answer is, I could have been leaning one way in the decision when suddenly I KNOW I need to choose the other option and doing anything else is just unthinkable.

It's different for everyone, and all depends on how close you are to God. People I know have said God speaks to them in words, and when you hear God speak you know it's him. He's not mistakable for your own thoughts.

And, prayer is not to beg for things from God, as many people seem to think. It's about talking to him and carrying on a conversation. Telling him about your day, how you feel about things and problems you have. He already knows it all, but by talking to him, relying on him he will help you through it. He won't necessarily make it go away, but he will help you see it through to the other side. He'll never give you more than you can handle without his help.

Very true, you don't need to see something in order to hear it. However, the point was, if you cannot see him in any way, then it doesn't seem to unlikely that you cannot hear him. The difference with talking to a friend over a telephone is that I have some idea of how he/she looks. For a stranger, I may not know exact details, however, I could put a rough image together. For god, you cannot.

But, you then say you don't hear him either. You somehow "feel" his working, so since you cannot hear him, then you cannot reasonably refute the fact that you don't need to see him in order to hear him.

Also, "feeling" his working negates free will and free thought.

The reason why I call it begging, and why you somewhat supported it, is that you go on your hands and knees, look up towards the sky and you ask for something. In your attempt to refute me, you admit that you rely on him for help. Sadly, that's a poor argument on your part.

But now, I pose a question to you: how do you know that these feelings that you get when not deciding something simply isn't your subconscious or morals and ethics coming into play? How do you know that it definately is not any of those things but is in fact your god? To me, it seems to be substituting the name of "god" for "subconscious", "morals" and "ethics". After all, you admitted you don't see nor hear it so it cannot be another being talking to you, so, how do you know it's your god? Is it simply your religious beliefs coming into play that make you biased into saying it's your god, or do you have some stronger evidence and reasoning, other than the apparent god identifying himself as god? If it's not you being biased, then tell me how it isn't a biased rationale.

if you called God a lazy bastard within earshot of me, I would've killed you or died trying. Just because you don't believe something doesn't mean you have to be a blasphemer when they state their beliefs.

So you can threaten to kill him and deny him his freedom of speech, however, you can believe whatever you want and say whatever you want? I'd also suggest reading up on the 10 Commandments, one of them seems to go along the lines of "thou shall not kill" or "thou shall not murder".

[lesher]

So you can threaten to kill him and deny him his freedom of speech, however, you can believe whatever you want and say whatever you want? I'd also suggest reading up on the 10 Commandments, one of them seems to go along the lines of "thou shall not kill" or "thou shall not murder".
Agreed about this question too.

But... Is it only Christian who only use these commandments? How about other religion? Do they allow their brethren to kill people?

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Let's see, how can I explain this... He assures me that He is the one true God through His actions in my life. He hasn't literally spoken to anyone for about 2,000 years, as far as I know.
As far as why the world isn't perfect, He is, We're not. We aren't like Him, we tend to sin and revolt against Him, just like you people are doing now, and thus, the world isn't as good as it could be. And also, if you called God a lazy bastard within earshot of me, I would've killed you or died trying. Just because you don't believe something doesn't mean you have to be a blasphemer when they state their beliefs.

So... a person claiming to hear voices in their heads ALSO says that they'll KILL ME for the "thought crime" of speaking out against their sick sadistic cult. Good job defending religion there, all you've done is assured us of how poisonous it is to your mind. I WILL speak out against religion no matter how much people like you threaten me (yes, I take this threat personally) and will not stop because this exact sort of mindset must be destroyed if the world is EVER going to be a peaceful place. We've killed each other over our "imaginary friends" for no reason, and for thousands of years. Its time to put an end to it.

[IfPiratesCouldFly]

"the world isn't perfect, He is, We're not"


I'll say it again,

If God is Omnipotent, he MUST be capable of being imperfect.
Also, if God made us with free will, he certainly has free will too, and that is what, in fact, makes us imperfect.
Therefore, he cannot be perfect.

He is also omnibenevolent and omnimalevolent, which means he could be good or terrible, good and evil.
However, God is said to be the image opposing Evil, which is Satan, but if God can be Evil, he could be more so evil than even Satan. He can BE Satan. He's omnipotent.
He also has the ability to simply not exist.

Also, to be perfect, you'd have to exceed everyone in every aspect possible, but to do that you'd have to have DONE everything too, meaning you'd have to be imperfect, and NOT exceed everyone, but him being imperfect would actually nullify the perfection, thereby proving that God is NOT perfect.

[Music Lover]

Also, to be perfect, you'd have to exceed everyone in every aspect possible, but to do that you'd have to have DONE everything too, meaning you'd have to be imperfect, and NOT exceed everyone, but him being imperfect would actually nullify the perfection, thereby proving that God is NOT perfect.

I don't understand what you mean by having to do everything to be perfect

Actually, to be perfect, you'll need to do all the good things, and not to do all the bad things, i.e. be sinless

[lesher]

BS? What is that?

[Clawhammer]

Oh wow. Ever heard of freedom of speech? Freedom of religion? It's only the basis of America and the role model for many other countries in the world...

This scares me actually. I shouldn't be scared to have a lack of religion, yet now I am. I afraid that more people out there will have the same thoughts as you and harm me for simply believing and speaking my mind.


Whatever happened to "Thou shalt no kill"? Just wondering... I honestly doubt God would forgive you (if he were real) if you killed someone because they called him a name.

He might not have forgiven me, and He would've been right to do so. But, I never would've forgiven myself either if I had let that insult go unchallenged.

[INFERNO]

Agreed about this question too.

But... Is it only Christian who only use these commandments? How about other religion? Do they allow their brethren to kill people?

Various religions have their own philosophies. I'm sure others have along the same lines. For example, LaVeyan Satanism has its own several rules, some of which are along the lines of the 10 Commandments.


He is also omnibenevolent and omnimalevolent, which means he could be good or terrible, good and evil.
However, God is said to be the image opposing Evil, which is Satan, but if God can be Evil, he could be more so evil than even Satan. He can BE Satan. He's omnipotent.
He also has the ability to simply not exist.

Being omnibenevolent and omni malovent makes little sense for one being to be both. It's akin to saying "that tree is all oranges and all bananas". You cannot have both in one.

True, god theoretically could be worse than satan is.

If he killed himself now, then he'd exist in history, however, if he killed himself prior to his existence, or somehow killed whatever thing(s) may have made him, then he would have never existed. Somehow he always existed, therefore, killing himself at any point in time will render him existing in history, hence he will have existed.


Also, to be perfect, you'd have to exceed everyone in every aspect possible, but to do that you'd have to have DONE everything too, meaning you'd have to be imperfect, and NOT exceed everyone, but him being imperfect would actually nullify the perfection, thereby proving that God is NOT perfect.

Being perfect would imply not failing, yet you're saying to be perfect, then you have to fail... . I'm not following you on this.

He might not have forgiven me, and He would've been right to do so. But, I never would've forgiven myself either if I had let that insult go unchallenged.

So you'd have never forgiven yourself is you did indeed kill someone with an opposing view? You're breaking plenty of biblical passages, such as to love everyone, not to judge, not to kill, etc... .

[IfPiratesCouldFly]

What I'm saying is, God is said to be 'perfect' however perfection is impossible to achieve, and perfection isn't "Good" or "Bad"

Perfect -
entirely without any flaws, defects, or shortcomings

In order to BE perfect, God would have to be omnipotent, meaning capable of doing anything and everything including being evil and becoming Satan, not existing, NOT being perfect, etc.


In fact, let's branch I believe perfection should branch off of omnipotence, aka the ability to do/be everything & anything.
Which would include to be perfect.

If God is omnipotent he can be sinless.
If God is omnipotent he can be sinful.
If God is omnipotent he can exist.
If God is omnipotent he can cease to exist.
If God is omnipotent he can be perfect.
If God is omnipotent he can be imperfect.
If God is omnipotent he can be good.
If God is omnipotent he can be evil.

[Death]

Let's see, how can I explain this... He assures me that He is the one true God through His actions in my life. He hasn't literally spoken to anyone for about 2,000 years, as far as I know.

How can he assure you of anything if he doesn't speak to you? In fact, that feeling you feel is your brain's emotions. It has nothing to do with God.


As far as why the world isn't perfect, He is, We're not.

The world is not perfect, you know that. Also, God isn't perfect if he can't deal with the imperfections.


We aren't like Him, we tend to sin and revolt against Him, just like you people are doing now, and thus, the world isn't as good as it could be.

That's very narrow minded! In fact, I'd kill you for saying that! Just joking obviously! I would never do something so evil!


And also, if you called God a lazy bastard within earshot of me, I would've killed you or died trying.

Excuse me, don't piss me off with death threats! Besides, I actually said that maybe he was one. You know what, God is a mother fucker. There you go. Go on, try to kill me!


Just because you don't believe something doesn't mean you have to be a blasphemer when they state their beliefs.

Don't bring blasphemy into this.

You remind me of ShatteredGlass. You are narrow minded and are aggresive against those who are not of your religion. Your attitude is negative and potentially disturbing.

[INFERNO]

What I'm saying is, God is said to be 'perfect' however perfection is impossible to achieve, and perfection isn't "Good" or "Bad"

Perfect -
entirely without any flaws, defects, or shortcomings

Your argument contradicts itself. Your definition of perfection disallows for "bad", yet you then say that if god is perfect, he is bad also. With omnipotence, yes, he would have the power to be bad, Satan, good, etc... . However, when you say he is perfect using your definition, then although he could be bad, your definition disallows it, thus he cannot be bad yet you then say he is... .

Of course, this assumes you aren't using a different definition of "bad" and "good" which would deviate from traditionally-accepted ones. If you do have your own different definitions for them, then please share them.

[lamboman43]

Excuse me, don't piss me off with death threats! Besides, I actually said that maybe he was one. You know what, God is a mother fucker. There you go. Go on, try to kill me
No need to start a fight.

[The Batman]

If you guys can not debate constructively which includes not making death threats and not insulting someone or their god then infractions will be handed out and posts will be deleted. Carry on.

[Snallie]

I think that the whole purpose of this thread was probably to see wether this would eventuate. Also there's an answer to basically every question made on this forum. Such as the argument of His perfection and the question of wether He really does exsist. Basically no, we (that is to say, Christians) don't know anything for certain, we just feel inside ourselves that this is the right conclusion to draw (or at least i do, no mean to do draw a stereotype), that there IS a supreme power (whatever form yours may take) and all of the associated beliefs that come with your choice of deity come with that. So no, we don't really know anything for certain...but, seeing as there is always a margin for error in human study, noone else can be sure that what they state is right either. E.g We don't know for certain that God created the universe in seven days, but equally, (if you don't believe that) you have no way of knowing for certain he didn't. Forgive me if i missed something important, reading 46 pages of text is a bit much for me >.<.

[Death]

No need to start a fight.

There was no need for him to start one either but I get your point; I shouldn't have reacted. What I said still stands though. The way I see it, it's not God that makes you perform well in say, maths, it's your effort, revision, inherited and non-inherited talen etc. I think that people should start to look beyond the simple concept of God and see the science that makes eveything work - the actual reason to explain why things happen, not just blame or thank it on one person. But heck, that's my opinion so I don't want anyone bitching about me for this.

[kenoloor]

Currently I'm agnostic but leaning toward atheist. I would like to believe that there is an invisible man up in the sky that controls everything that happens on the planet, but there is no proof to back it up. If God was so active and intervening with the people in the Bible why has he stopped communicating with humans all of a sudden. According to the Bible God was as easy to reach as your next door neighbor via prayer. If he really does exist and did do all those things in the Bible then why has he disappeared? Why doesn't he give a sign that shows he still (if ever) exists?

And that is why I'm agnostic.

[Prince_of_Peace]

Based on estimated/approximate statistics which I've found at

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

Christianity: 2.1 billion (33% of world's population)

Islam: 1.5 billion (21% of world's population)

Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion (16% of world's population)

Hinduism: 900 million (14% of world's population)

Chinese traditional religion: 394 million (6% of world's population)

Buddhism: 376 million (6% of world's population)

primal-indigenous: 300 million

African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million (6% of world's population)

Sikhism: 23 million

Juche: 19 million

Spiritism: 15 million

Judaism: 14 million (0.22% of world's population)

Baha'i: 7 million

Jainism: 4.2 million

Shinto: 4 million

Cao Dai: 4 million

Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million

Tenrikyo: 2 million

Neo-Paganism: 1 million

Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand

Rastafarianism: 600 thousand

Scientology: 500 thousand

I hope this help.

[Perseus]

What does your copypasta help?
Just because Christianity is the most popular religion proves nothing.

[Camazotz]

Based on estimated/approximate statistics which I've found at

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

Christianity: 2.1 billion (33% of world's population)

Islam: 1.5 billion (21% of world's population)

Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion (16% of world's population)

Hinduism: 900 million (14% of world's population)

Chinese traditional religion: 394 million (6% of world's population)

Buddhism: 376 million (6% of world's population)

primal-indigenous: 300 million

African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million (6% of world's population)

Sikhism: 23 million

Juche: 19 million

Spiritism: 15 million

Judaism: 14 million (0.22% of world's population)

Baha'i: 7 million

Jainism: 4.2 million

Shinto: 4 million

Cao Dai: 4 million

Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million

Tenrikyo: 2 million

Neo-Paganism: 1 million

Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand

Rastafarianism: 600 thousand

Scientology: 500 thousand

I hope this help.

Helped with what exactly? Copy and pasting information without a point proves nothing. I found this statement while cross-referencing your information (yes, your information is actually correct). It actually makes sense.

"The entire human race (100%) are atheist at birth.The default position. Everything after that is either tradition, taught or indoctrinated.

I'm adding brainwashed to that list."

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percentage_of_people_are_atheists

[Death]

"The entire human race (100%) are atheist at birth.The default position. Everything after that is either tradition, taught or indoctrinated.

QFT - I agree fully. If God existed, wouldn't people know from birth? Brainwashing is just the word I would use to describe it.

[The Batman]

I would say the entire human race is ignorant at the beginning how can you not believe in something if you know nothing about it? Religion is something that we are taught whether it's to believe in god or not.

[Death]

But why should you have to be taught that God exists? The very fact that you have to be taught it suggests that you are being told opinions which arn't facts. If God existed, he would speak to you at birth so you would believe in him then. Whenever I used to pray, I was ignored. I asked God a while ago to speak to me and again asking him to turn my red wall to blue just for 10 seconds to prove that he exists and nothing happened so God clearly doesn't exist.

[The Batman]

If you need to have solid proof god exists why should he show himself? If faith alone can't keep you attached to him than he won't give you any proof.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

If you need to have solid proof god exists why should he show himself? If faith alone can't keep you attached to him than he won't give you any proof.

Faith is believing in something for which there is no facts or evidence to support it. It is extremely stupid to believe in ANYTHING based on faith. But apparently your god wants everyone to believe in him without needing any proof that he's real... even though he loved to do things in the bible (i.e. pillars of FIRE) to show off and prove he's real to barbaric desert tribes.

[Truth]

Faith is believing in something for which there is no facts or evidence to support it. It is extremely stupid to believe in ANYTHING based on faith. But apparently your god wants everyone to believe in him without needing any proof that he's real... even though he loved to do things in the bible (i.e. pillars of FIRE) to show off and prove he's real to barbaric desert tribes. Many things other then religion are based on faith, so what you just said isnt correct.

[Death]

Many things other then religion are based on faith, so what you just said isnt correct.

If you think about it, what he said was correct. You can't say something exists simply because you believe it does. Lets say that there is a fairy that flies around the moon every 3 months and if you look up at the right time soon after midnight on the correct day,, you will see her flying throught the sky leaving behind a green trail of sparks. Are you saying that having faith in that makes that true? It can't do since it's nonsense. The same applies with God. If he refuses to even speak to you, he can't exist.

[The Batman]

If you think about it, what he said was correct. You can't say something exists simply because you believe it does.
I want to quote that part right there. Think about it you say we can't say something is real because we believe in it, but what about gravity?

Can you see it?

No

Can you touch it with your hands?

No.

Can you use any of your other senses to have reasoning that gravity exists?

Nope.

So how do you know it's real?

Because you feel it right?

Well that's exactly how people think about god. They feel him inside themselves that's how they know he's real.

[Death]

What you feel inside isn't God; it's your brain's emotions. I've heard people saying that the feeling of goodness when you've done something selfless is heaven applauding you. This is absolute nonsense; it's your mature brain telling you that what you've done (or something like that) was a moral act. It has nothing to do with God. Also, the Bible contradicts itself and has hurtful and clearly untrue coments in it (there are bits of it which insult athiesm, cohabitation, homosexuality, etcetera) a lot so I wouldn't trust it.

[Requin]

Honestly? Who cares?

If someone wants to beleive in something else from else, then let them. Who are we to tell each other what to believe and think?
Why do people have such problems with that? I'm not religious, does that mean I'm cruel? Does it mean I'm not kind? And on a path of sin to burning eternity in hell?

I say learn to live with each other. What's the point in argueing what we should all think when we are never going to agree?

[Death]

Because this is a debate. We are supposed to explain what we think and give evidence to support our ideas or beliefs.

[Sage]

I want to quote that part right there. Think about it you say we can't say something is real because we believe in it, but what about gravity?

Can you see it?

No

Can you touch it with your hands?

No.

Can you use any of your other senses to have reasoning that gravity exists?

Nope.

So how do you know it's real?

Because you feel it right?

Well that's exactly how people think about god. They feel him inside themselves that's how they know he's real.

You can know Gravity exists by doing a simple experiment. Pick something up, and let go. If it falls, boom, that's Gravity. You don't need to do it privately, either, oh no- You can drop things in front of people and they too can see Gravity at work.

Sad to say, there isn't such a simple experiment you can do to prove the presence of a God.

[Death]

This is true. There's no connection between gravity and God so I'm afraid that's even more invalid evidence for God's existance. We can't just have faith in stuff, we need to know that they exist. Not to do so is illogical. Why thank or blame everything on some God which can be explained using common sense or science? There are several "miracles" that can be explained this way. And no, I'm not talking about bible content here; that was a fiction book written thousands of years ago. I don't think any evidence from that is valid now.

[The Batman]

In a RELIGION thread the using a religious doctrine is valid evidence rather you want to believe it or not.

[Oblivion]

Religion is based on faith, I don't think any religious person would argue that.
Faith is believing something without solid proof or observation. Which makes it impossible to prove wrong, or right.

[Sage]

In a RELIGION thread the using a religious doctrine is valid evidence rather you want to believe it or not.

Evidence of what, exactly?

[The Batman]

Evidence of that religion and their beliefs. The bible is more than a religious book anyway it has some historical things in it and also is a good book of morals.

[Sage]

Evidence of that religion and their beliefs. The bible is more than a religious book anyway it has some historical things in it and also is a good book of morals.

Well if every side is evidence of every side, why do we debate at all?

[The Batman]

I didn't say that every side was right I said that it proves that religion existed and of all the things it stands for and not just something you pull out of the air.

[INFERNO]

I didn't say that every side was right I said that it proves that religion existed and of all the things it stands for and not just something you pull out of the air.

Wouldn't have its origins been more or less pulled out of the air?

Each religion I assume would use evidence of its own self to prove it's correct to some degree. So if you were to make each religion a person, most would believe that they're each correct, so technically, each side, according to themselves and perhaps from other beliefs, prove that they're correct. I doubt a religion would use evidence to only prove that they're incorrect.

[Death]

Evidence of that religion and their beliefs. The bible is more than a religious book anyway it has some historical things in it and also is a good book of morals.

Good book of morals is it? Let's all hate homosexuals and be against cohabitation and against everything else that is perfectly normal. Also, you can't say it's historical facts when it mentions many miracles which cannot be done in real life today; it's clearly fiction if you cannot reproduce what happens. People in the bible didn't need faith did they? God spoke to them and they saw what appeared to be magic (hitting a rock and water conjuring from nowhere or bread just falling out of the sky because God said so) but none of that happens in real life. I'm afraid that your "evidence" doesn't prove anything.

[The Batman]

External evidence from both archaeology and non-Christian writers confirms that the Bible--both Old and New Testaments--is a trustworthy historical document. Archaeologist Joseph Free has said that "Archaeology has confirmed countless passages which had been rejected by critics as unhistorical or contrary to known facts." [1] Renowned Jewish archaeologist Nelson Gluek confidently said that "It...may be stated categorically that no archaeological discovery has ever controverted a biblical reference. Scores of archeological findings have been made which confirm in clear outline or exact detail historical statements in the Bible." [2] Christian apologist Josh McDowell tells us that "After personally trying to shatter the historicity and validity of the Scriptures, I have come to the conclusion that they are historically trustworthy." [3]

Some scholars once said that Moses couldn't have written the first five books of the Bible (as the Bible says) because writing was largely unknown in his day. Then, archaeology proved otherwise by the discovery of many other written codes of the period: the code of Hammurabi (ca. 1700 B.C.), the Lipit-Ishtar code (ca. 1860), and the Laws of Eshnunna (ca. 1950 B.C.).

Critics used to say that the biblical description of the Hittite Empire was wrong because the Hittite Empire (they though) didn't even exist! Then archaeologists discovered the Hittite capital in 1906 and discovered that the Hittite's were actually a very vast and prominent civilization. Archaeological and linguistic evidence is increasingly pointing to a sixth-century B.C. date for the book of Daniel, in spite of the many critics who attempt to late-date Daniel and make it a prophecy after the detailed events it predicts.

For the New Testament, Dr. G.R. Habermas points out that within 110 years of Christ's crucifixion, approximately eighteen non-Christian sources mention more than "one hundred facts, beliefs, and teachings from the life of Christ and early Christendom. These items, I might add, mention almost every major detail of Jesus' life, including miracles, the Resurrection, and His claims to deity." [4] Sir William Ramsey, one of the greatest archeologists to ever live, demonstrated that Luke made no mistakes in references to 32 countries, 54 cities, and 9 islands.

Liberal scholars used to argue that a town named Nazareth didn't exist at the time of Jesus, until archaeology of the last few decades confirmed its existence. The Gospel's portrayals of the temple, Pilate's court, Jesus' crown of thorns, and the mode of His execution have all also been confirmed. The list could go on and on.

The historical evidence clearly shows that the Bible is a reliable historical document. Since the Bible can be trusted in areas that we can check (its history), then this gives us a reason to trust it in areas that we cannot check (its claims for inspiration).
Taken from http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/8449/two.html

I'm not a devout christian and I don't follow everything in the bible but i will defend the things in it that I do believe in like the good moral codes in it. There are some bullshit scriptures in there but there aren't that many of them. The bible as a whole is a good book to read even if you don't follow it or believe the shit in it.

And how are you going to judge an entire book based on the miracles in it? Pick up the bible and read it there is more to it than just that.

[Delusion15]

i am agnostic. really people believe what they want to believe. a Christian had he been born in a Hindu home would be Hindu it all just depends on your up bringing. But i don't think we as people can really understand how we were made or created or whatever

[Death]

a Christian had he been born in a Hindu home would be Hindu it all just depends on your up bringing.r

That is in fact a very good point. This questions whether or not you can truly say that one specific (or any) religion exists.

I'm not a devout christian and I don't follow everything in the bible but i will defend the things in it that I do believe in like the good moral codes in it. There are some bullshit scriptures in there but there aren't that many of them. The bible as a whole is a good book to read even if you don't follow it or believe the shit in it.

I have to say it, you hold a good point there. I suppose you're right in that you can read the good stuff and ignore any bad bits (including the religious side of it) there may be and it would be quite good for a moral book.

And how are you going to judge an entire book based on the miracles in it? Pick up the bible and read it there is more to it than just that.

I was just using that as an example but I agree; there is a lot more to it. I was merely saying that it isn't all true.

[punkjake]

One question that really has been on my mind...and other opinions.

First off, why do members of one faith criticize members of another? How can we know for sure that our faith is right?

I think that every major religion in the world holds a piece of the truth. If they all started acting in the manner they say they should, then maybe we could find the real truth.

Personally...I believe in a higher entity. Right now that idea is with belief in God. However, I don't label myself 'Christian' because I don't agree with some of the Christian beliefs. I agree with the beliefs of the Baptist denomination the most, though. I was raised Baptist. My mother was raised Catholic but at 17 broke away, my dad was raised Baptist.

I don't believe in the traditional fire and brimstone hell, though. I believe that if you die and your not worthy of God and the light, your soul stays here on Earth.

When it comes to the Islam world's anger at the Pope's statements, here's what I have to say:

1) The Pope quoted the writing that stated the Islam is violent and evil.
2) The Islam responds how? By violence!

so..yea...

What do you believe and why do you believe it?
thats like me too :yes: excpt with me being more of a catholic PS what is agontisc or whatever it is (the other a word :D XD)

[Death]

Since I don't believe in God, I don't believe the soul is an actual physical part of your body at all - I think that people use it only when they are referring to something they do not understand - mostly for religion.

[sebbie]

One question that really has been on my mind...and other opinions.

First off, why do members of one faith criticize members of another? How can we know for sure that our faith is right?

I think that every major religion in the world holds a piece of the truth. If they all started acting in the manner they say they should, then maybe we could find the real truth.


I don't believe in the traditional fire and brimstone hell, though. I believe that if you die and your not worthy of God and the light, your soul stays here on Earth.

When you consider how the issues between the Pope statement directed towards Islam and how the reaction was violence, you need to bare in mind the statement will have been offensive to Muslims and thus a reaction is bound to happen.

When it comes to the Islam world's anger at the Pope's statements, here's what I have to say:

1) The Pope quoted the writing that stated the Islam is violent and evil.
2) The Islam responds how? By violence!

so..yea...

What do you believe and why do you believe it?

First of all I think that the poll in this topic is a bad one, for example missing out Islam the worlds 2nd largest religion and Judaism another religion that is in the light a lot.

My own personal beliefs would be classed as Agnostic at the moment.

When thinking why do religions criticise other, you have to consider each religion thinks that it is the right one, therefore following another religion is against them, deemed a sin etc. Therefore they will challenge, slur, offended members of another faith.

When you look at the example in the first post about the The Pope statement and the reaction from some Muslims you need to bare in mind, to followers of Islam the Popes statements were offensive, therefore you can expect a reaction.

[Untouched]

I believe that if there was no religion in the world, it would be a lot more peaceful. Yes, I'm one of those people that thinks the world would be a better place without religion. It would, if you think about it.

[sebbie]

I believe that if there was no religion in the world, it would be a lot more peaceful. Yes, I'm one of those people that thinks the world would be a better place without religion. It would, if you think about it.

I agree with you on this point, unless everyone follows the same idea/religion or there are no religions to follow people will argue, conflicts will start. However I am sure that religion is not all bad, people use it for comfort, it has had a huge impact in society and history sometimes for the better and not he worse.

[Camazotz]

Religion can cause comfort for some people, but an obsession and addiction in others. If someone believes in something too strongly, they may ignore very important things. For example, say someone is sure that God will save them if they jumped off a cliff. No one should trust in something that strongly. Having blind faith like that is foolish.

[Death]

I agree. I can say the same things about suicide bombers. They only do it because they are convinced that by murdering for their God, they will gain access to a special martyr's heaven - how sad. By the world having no religion, none of this religious genocide or self-halm (flaggilation) or religious conflict (arguing over different religons or concepts within the same religion) will occur and we could all breath easier.

[scuba steve]

sorry to interrupt the disccusion but.... what am i? not brought into any faith, parents christian but left church and i believe views of differant religions eg yin yang, reincarnation but not the if your bad you come back as a tape worm type stuff.

[sebbie]

sorry to interrupt the disccusion but.... what am i? not brought into any faith, parents christian but left church and i believe views of differant religions eg yin yang, reincarnation but not the if your bad you come back as a tape worm type stuff.

I would class you as agnostic at the moment - Reason for classing you as this is you seem to still be exploring your religious views therefore you cannot say exactly which faith you are a member of.

Just keep an open mind when it comes to religion and more than likely it will fall into place an you will be able to say "I am a XXXXX"

[scuba steve]

cool i guess im agnostic then haha

[AMERICANelite123]

Okay i am agnostic and my mom is catholic and my dad ipisciple... (sorry for mispelling if any in the religions) and i dont get it. i mean this year in class i was critisized to tears about me being agnostic i had a kid even say your proabaly not going to heaven anyways. i go to a school with a lot of christian and religious students. i mean people just do what they are taught, which is to reject what they dont believe. to me god is just a way of the mans way to "explain" the unexplainable. so i always go with sciences theories. but here is something for you, how come there is enough religion to create war, and not enough to end and or create a peace amoung the world. i know i keep bvabling on but do you think i have a point here?

[scuba steve]

yes most definatly. people spend too much time arguing over thier religions and which one is the right one, to the point where they dont even achknowledge that their religions stand as a symbol of peace and faith to mankind

[optimashprime]

yes most definatly. people spend too much time arguing over thier religions and which one is the right one, to the point where they dont even achknowledge that their religions stand as a symbol of peace and faith to mankind

you realy dont like religion do you

i only like the history of religion and its historical impact

[scuba steve]

hahaha i do but im not to fond of christianity because of the fighting and crap that goes on where i live

[vito22andolini]

faith is stupid anyway!

[Sage]

faith is stupid anyway!

This really doesn't add anything to the debate. Good going.

[punkjake]

Faith is believing in something for which there is no facts or evidence to support it. It is extremely stupid to believe in ANYTHING based on faith. But apparently your god wants everyone to believe in him without needing any proof that he's real... even though he loved to do things in the bible (i.e. pillars of FIRE) to show off and prove he's real to barbaric desert tribes.

Yes,just like you have no proof we came from monkeys,because it IS just a theory something which has no proof but of its own just like you have faith we all just rot in the ground and be become plant food :yeah: you can't prove God isn't real.;)

[scuba steve]

i believe that we do just rot in the ground, but not so much reborn but our born as something else with no knowledge of anything else other than whats happening to that being, to me it makes sense

[Oblivion]

Yes,just like you have no proof we came from monkeys,because it IS just a theory something which has no proof but of its own just like you have faith we all just rot in the ground and be become plant food :yeah: you can't prove God isn't real.;)

You don't understand what a theory is; a theory is a thought based on facts and proof.
Faith is what's not dependent on proof, and religion is what's based on faith.

And the fact that our bodies physically rot in the ground and provide food for decomposers is a fact, not faith. If you go to a cemetery and dig up a body, you'll find maggots feasting on it's flesh.

And you're right, we can't prove god doesn't exist. We also can't prove that invisible pink unicorns don't exist either, but that doesn't mean they do exist, does it?

[scuba steve]

You don't understand what a theory is; a theory is a thought based on facts and proof.
Faith is what's not dependent on proof.

And you're right, we can't prove god doesn't exist. We also can't prove that invisible pink unicorns don't exist either, but that doesn't mean they do exist, does it?

we can't prove many things, too many things, we're pretty ill-knowledgeable

[Sage]

Yes,just like you have no proof we came from monkeys,

The moment you say 'man came from monkies', it becomes blatantly clear to everyone in the room that you have a very poor understanding of Evolution.

[scuba steve]

did anyone see that show about the missing link in mans evolutionary chain, they found a wee fossilised monkey that they think belongs in the chart

[Commander Thor]

did anyone see that show about the missing link in mans evolutionary chain, they found a wee fossilised monkey that they think belongs in the chart

No (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=44596), I (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/04/0413_060413_evolution.html) hadn't (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/link/evolution.html) heard (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,491147,00.html) that (http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s877478.htm).

[scuba steve]

yea it was on the bbc the other week and i think the guy said it was genuine so im surprised you didn't here bout it, but if you look up past news on websites you'll find plus there was a show on it (forget what called)

[Commander Thor]

Guess you didn't catch my sarcasm.
If you noticed, each word was a different link, to a defferent website, saying something about that fossil discovery. :p

[scuba steve]

oh haha whoops but normally i wouldn't follow with the mouse as i read:) i thought you just decided to use that font

[Perseus]

To the dude who blantently doesn't know anything about evolution(I'm too lazy to go and quote him. :P). Man did not evolve from monkeys, we evolved from a common ancestor of monkeys and etc. I may be wrong, but I think we evolved from homo erectuses. Before you go off on me, I am a Christian who believes many things of science because some parts of evolution just don't sound right to me, as many people know lol. If that makes since.

[Commander Thor]

To the dude who blantently doesn't know anything about evolution(I'm too lazy to go and quote him. :P). Man did not evolve from monkeys, we evolved from a common ancestor of monkeys and etc. I may be wrong, but I think we evolved from homo erectuses. Before you go off on me, I am a Christian who believes many things of science because some parts of evolution just sound right to me, as many people know lol.

This is true, we did evolve from Homo Erectus, but the common ancestor of all modern primates is not Homo Erectus.
It's actually Australopithecus Africanus.
Then we evolved into Homo Erectus.
Then Homo Sapien.

Australopithecus Africanus is where the line of evolution splits for primates. (Evolving into the ancestors of monkeys, orangutan, chimpanzees, ect)

[scuba steve]

so i didn't put in all the technical babble about how there were split branches about primates and monkeys, it still looks like a damb monkey

[Perseus]

No
And I forgot to add a don't to my post. So I Shall edit it.

[Sage]

so i didn't put in all the technical babble about how there were split branches about primates and monkeys, it still looks like a damb monkey

You're unnecessarily justifying your own ignorance. If you can't put in the time to clarify what you mean, you shouldn't be in the debate forum. Our ancestors may look like monkeys but to call them monkeys is a blatant overgeneralization. Monkeys today are just as modern as you and I.

[punkjake]

The moment you say 'man came from monkies', it becomes blatantly clear to everyone in the room that you have a very poor understanding of Evolution.
I know what it is i was just in a rush :P there is some missing link from the advanced apes to the elegant cave man :P to which we have not found yet

[Sage]

I know what it is i was just in a rush :P there is some missing link from the advanced apes to the elegant cave man :P to which we have not found yet

Yes, though that one link isn't absolutely crucial to proving the theory of evolution. There are mounds of evidence in other things.

[Shogun]

Quite frankly, I despise religion, too be quite honest I find it the most rediculous thing ever. There are way too many reasons it's innacurate, I don't critisize others unless I am critisized. I also find it interesting that people start getting into religion when something bad happens, like they need someone to lean on b/c they beleive they can't do it on their own. Sorry if that was harsh, it was unintentional if I caused hate.

[scuba steve]

one thing i dont worry about is if god exists. but it has occured to me that god has alzheimers and forgotten we exist

[Wayvrn]

Personally, religion is nothing but a some how non-illegal scam that stabs everybody it can get it's greedy hands on.

For instance, muslim, the males are the most strongest there, by far, they hold down people and cercumsize them when wanted, they rape anybody at will, they do whatever they like to their women. - Why aren't the women safety associates after them?

Christian, live your life blindly by some book full of rape, suicide, violence, incest, beastility, murder, revenge and the destruction of human rights. Plus, if you have read the old and new testimate without being a god botherer and blindly says "ooohh no, that is just god being angry!", you'll see and be amazed that people actually follow this shit. And I bet you, alot of Christians haven't even read both bibles. Sad, sad in the first place they are christian and don't live life they want too.

Also, science proves there is no 72 virgins for you muslims and there is no heaven for you Churchies. Science defeats all that you beleive in.

I don't expect to be popular, but if any of you agree to any of this or have to add or have similiar thoughts, please say so.

Plus, this is my opinion, do not get snappy, if I read any of you people's comments that are religious, I wouldn't do anything but just laugh, but, will not critisize you.

[scuba steve]

i would love a dog as long as it's not spelt backwards

[BuryYourFlame]

Personally, religion is nothing but a some how non-illegal scam that stabs everybody it can get it's greedy hands on.

For instance, muslim, the males are the most strongest there, by far, they hold down people and cercumsize them when wanted, they rape anybody at will, they do whatever they like to their women. - Why aren't the women safety associates after them?

Christian, live your life blindly by some book full of rape, suicide, violence, incest, beastility, murder, revenge and the destruction of human rights. Plus, if you have read the old and new testimate without being a god botherer and blindly says "ooohh no, that is just god being angry!", you'll see and be amazed that people actually follow this shit. And I bet you, alot of Christians haven't even read both bibles. Sad, sad in the first place they are christian and don't live life they want too.

Also, science proves there is no 72 virgins for you muslims and there is no heaven for you Churchies. Science defeats all that you beleive in.

I don't expect to be popular, but if any of you agree to any of this or have to add or have similiar thoughts, please say so.

Plus, this is my opinion, do not get snappy, if I read any of you people's comments that are religious, I wouldn't do anything but just laugh, but, will not critisize you.

You and your attitude on various topics are really beginning to annoy me...

The first thing i would like to point out is that you are merely gathering the evidence that you want and fitting it to your will, admittedly a lot of Christians do this as well, and that also annoys me, there should be the whole story shown. You say that the Bible is "a book full of rape, suicide, violence, incest, bestiality, murder, revenge and the destruction of human rights." Yes, it does have these things, but...if you have another look, more often than not (only saying this because I have not read the Bible, front to back, but i have read pretty much the same amount of old and new testament), these things are quite severely punished (under the old covenant, wrong doings demanded immediate punishment). (If you read of any instances where this is not the case, tell me about them through PM or something, and I will get back to you asap)

Although, I do agree with your points about the sexist ways within the Muslim religion, as something I don’t personally understand why it is put up with. (But again, this is possibly just the extremists showing through and not a proper representation of the Muslim community).

Christianity does not mean following anything "blindly". I have thought through pretty much all religions carefully, and come to the conclusion that the Christian God is the only plausible option. The only blindness comes from not having guidelines to live by, and by taking a God (doesn't even have to be the Christian God for now) out of the picture, you also take away ANY morals that we have. It is a huge claim to say that there is no God at all. If there is no God, then you are saying that we have absolutely no purpose in life, nothing to look forward to, and nothing to hold us back from killing whoever we want, raping whoever we want etc. it would only be survival of the fittest, if that is all we are made for.


Science defeats all that you beleive in.

Let’s have a look at this definition:
Science (from the Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge" or "knowing") is the effort to discover, and increase human understanding of how the physical world works.

This definition clearly states that science is the study of the PHYSICAL world; therefore, science has not, and cannot possibly disprove the existence of God. How do you prove something through science? You do an experiment. Without a repeated and consistent result, the idea is merely that, an idea. How is anyone going make an experiment, using the physical world, and our resources, to disprove the existence of a Being that is far greater than us, and is not of the physical world? You can't.

I urge you to, instead of just sitting there laughing at what you are reading, actually see if I have valid points, think about what you are reading, as I do when I read what others have to say as to why they think religion etc. is wrong. I am not really intending to read this often, and reply even less, but yeh, just putting this stuff out there.

[Sage]

This definition clearly states that science is the study of the PHYSICAL world; therefore, science has not, and cannot possibly disprove the existence of God. How do you prove something through science? You do an experiment. Without a repeated and consistent result, the idea is merely that, an idea. How is anyone going make an experiment, using the physical world, and our resources, to disprove the existence of a Being that is far greater than us, and is not of the physical world? You can't.


That's why I keep religion and science seperated in my views. One is bound to disprove the other no matter what, they are simply two different paradigms of thinking. It's not so much apples and oranges as it is clocktowers and whales.

[Death]

You and your attitude on various topics are really beginning to annoy me...

Your hypocritism is annoyng me.


Christianity does not mean following anything "blindly". I have thought through pretty much all religions carefully, and come to the conclusion that the Christian God is the only plausible option. The only blindness comes from not having guidelines to live by, and by taking a God (doesn't even have to be the Christian God for now) out of the picture, you also take away ANY morals that we have. It is a huge claim to say that there is no God at all. If there is no God, then you are saying that we have absolutely no purpose in life, nothing to look forward to, and nothing to hold us back from killing whoever we want, raping whoever we want etc. it would only be survival of the fittest, if that is all we are made for.

How dare you claim that athiests have no guidlines and purpose in their life! What you've just said is extremely narrow minded. You do not need to believe in shit to have rules and morals. It's not rocket science! Furthermore, saying that there is no God is by no means a greater claim than saying that there is one.



This definition clearly states that science is the study of the PHYSICAL world; therefore, science has not, and cannot possibly disprove the existence of God. How do you prove something through science? You do an experiment. Without a repeated and consistent result, the idea is merely that, an idea. How is anyone going make an experiment, using the physical world, and our resources, to disprove the existence of a Being that is far greater than us, and is not of the physical world? You can't.

Science does prove things - faith doesn't. We have evidence for our beliefs. What do you have? A fiction novel written thousands of years ago. Very convincing.[/SARCASM]


I urge you to, instead of just sitting there laughing at what you are reading, actually see if I have valid points

Done. My answer? No.

[Sage]

Christianity does not mean following anything "blindly". I have thought through pretty much all religions carefully, and come to the conclusion that the Christian God is the only plausible option. The only blindness comes from not having guidelines to live by, and by taking a God (doesn't even have to be the Christian God for now) out of the picture, you also take away ANY morals that we have. It is a huge claim to say that there is no God at all. If there is no God, then you are saying that we have absolutely no purpose in life, nothing to look forward to, and nothing to hold us back from killing whoever we want, raping whoever we want etc. it would only be survival of the fittest, if that is all we are made for.


Declan, Declan, Declan. I truly did feel you were a fine, reasonable lad once, but now I'm not quite sure what to think. It's sad, if anything.

Such is my problem with Christianity, you see. Your belief professes a rather pessimistic, self-defeating and anti-humanistic world view. Can you truly hold a belief so aimed against your fellow man, that against some unquestionable ruler, human beings are little more than immoral, sexually deviant, murderous, horrid individuals? If you conclusively found out there was not a God, would you feel the urge to rape little girls, shoot up banks, take drugs and set the world ablaze aimlessly? Really? If the answer to a single question (Does God exist?) is the only fine line you have between sainthood and human scum, I truly feel it is you who needs to consider which one of us is without morals.

Atheists hold the belief that this is the only life we have. Is there hope for something beyond it? Sure, but atheists won't lean on that without persuading evidence. Whether this is life beyond this one or not is questionable, but there is a chance that this is the only life you will ever have. All the wonders of the world and the universe are at your feet, all the joys and pleasures and hardships and tragedies of this world are yours for the taking, and no matter what your beliefs, you are committing a truly disappointing act by not making the best of this life.

I'm in a bout of agnosticism at the moment, I'll admit. Atheists can argue with all the science they like and theists can argue with all the faith they like, but ultimately they're two different ways of viewing the world not meant to be mixed together; Though it's not to say one can't have both at different times.

I'm not going to argue science to you. I'm just professing my qualms with your belief system- That I cannot look down on my fellow human beings and myself in the manner that you do. I do have hope and faith in the human race to improve its ways of its own accord without being babysat by a celestial overlord.

There's a quote I did enjoy some time back, though my memory's fadey so pardon me if I butcher it.

The most dangerous people are the ones who get their entire set of morals from a single book.

I must ask you now, who is truly the immoral one?

[scuba steve]

[QUOTE=The-never-cycle;545289]

it would only be survival of the fittest, if that is all we are made for.



sorry if this upsets people but as long as your not a creationist is survival of the fittest not how man started of through the evolution period and still remaining today.
all animals are bound by this including us.

[Wayvrn]

You and your attitude on various topics are really beginning to annoy me...

The first thing i would like to point out is that you are merely gathering the evidence that you want and fitting it to your will, admittedly a lot of Christians do this as well, and that also annoys me, there should be the whole story shown. You say that the Bible is "a book full of rape, suicide, violence, incest, bestiality, murder, revenge and the destruction of human rights." Yes, it does have these things, but...if you have another look, more often than not (only saying this because I have not read the Bible, front to back, but i have read pretty much the same amount of old and new testament), these things are quite severely punished (under the old covenant, wrong doings demanded immediate punishment). (If you read of any instances where this is not the case, tell me about them through PM or something, and I will get back to you asap)

Although, I do agree with your points about the sexist ways within the Muslim religion, as something I don’t personally understand why it is put up with. (But again, this is possibly just the extremists showing through and not a proper representation of the Muslim community).

Christianity does not mean following anything "blindly". I have thought through pretty much all religions carefully, and come to the conclusion that the Christian God is the only plausible option. The only blindness comes from not having guidelines to live by, and by taking a God (doesn't even have to be the Christian God for now) out of the picture, you also take away ANY morals that we have. It is a huge claim to say that there is no God at all. If there is no God, then you are saying that we have absolutely no purpose in life, nothing to look forward to, and nothing to hold us back from killing whoever we want, raping whoever we want etc. it would only be survival of the fittest, if that is all we are made for.




Let’s have a look at this definition:


This definition clearly states that science is the study of the PHYSICAL world; therefore, science has not, and cannot possibly disprove the existence of God. How do you prove something through science? You do an experiment. Without a repeated and consistent result, the idea is merely that, an idea. How is anyone going make an experiment, using the physical world, and our resources, to disprove the existence of a Being that is far greater than us, and is not of the physical world? You can't.

I urge you to, instead of just sitting there laughing at what you are reading, actually see if I have valid points, think about what you are reading, as I do when I read what others have to say as to why they think religion etc. is wrong. I am not really intending to read this often, and reply even less, but yeh, just putting this stuff out there.

Well, looks like it your non-backed up opinion vs my opinion, really.

- Plus, you might want to check your area on science.

[Death]

If there is no God, then you are saying that we have absolutely no purpose in life, nothing to look forward to, and nothing to hold us back from killing whoever we want, raping whoever we want etc. it would only be survival of the fittest, if that is all we are made for.

You know, I've quoted you before but this bit, I really have to say that I couldn't stop laughing at your sheer arrogance when I read this. What stops athiests from criminal behaviour are good morals - a word that I don't think that you are quite familiar with. Try looking it up sometime in the dictionary or on wikipedia since by what you've said, you obviously haven't the first clue of the meaning of the word. Until you feel ready to argue without using pointless insults and not a shread of real evdence, don't bother.

Another thing that I wish to point out is that science doesn't try to pretend it knows everything. It admits that there are things that are yet to be explained or explored. Religion on the other hand has to know it all even though they have no evidence to support them. Now that's just saying something about religion! Which sounds wiser and more convincing? It doesn't take a genius to work out that evidence with proof (science) has more of a point than blind faith wthout evidence (religion - and a random book won't do as evidence I'm afraid).

[sebbie]

Personally, religion is nothing but a some how non-illegal scam that stabs everybody it can get it's greedy hands on.

For instance, muslim, the males are the most strongest there, by far, they hold down people and cercumsize them when wanted, they rape anybody at will, they do whatever they like to their women. - Why aren't the women safety associates after them?

Christian, live your life blindly by some book full of rape, suicide, violence, incest, beastility, murder, revenge and the destruction of human rights. Plus, if you have read the old and new testimate without being a god botherer and blindly says "ooohh no, that is just god being angry!", you'll see and be amazed that people actually follow this shit. And I bet you, alot of Christians haven't even read both bibles. Sad, sad in the first place they are christian and don't live life they want too.

Also, science proves there is no 72 virgins for you muslims and there is no heaven for you Churchies. Science defeats all that you beleive in.

I don't expect to be popular, but if any of you agree to any of this or have to add or have similiar thoughts, please say so.

Plus, this is my opinion, do not get snappy, if I read any of you people's comments that are religious, I wouldn't do anything but just laugh, but, will not critisize you.

This post is a pile of shit. People may hate me for saying this but, what you are posting here is a view that is extremist and offensive.

Please provided facts on how science has disprove religion. Here was me thinking that it is an unanswerable question at the moment that's why it requires faith.

[Death]

You do realise that after the last person posted a negative reply to the psot you just did, 6 more replies were made that were negative towards said person. Basically, your post is a pile of shit as well. He is basically saying his thoughts about religion. Why must you critisize someone for being athiest? Why are you so bigoted and narrow-minded? Why can't you accept that there are others who are not of your religion? Why do you think that you are superior to everyone else?

[sebbie]

You do realise that after the last person posted a negative reply to the psot you just did, 6 more replies were made that were negative towards said person. Basically, your post is a pile of shit as well. He is basically saying his thoughts about religion. Why must you critisize someone for being athiest? Why are you so bigoted and narrow-minded? Why can't you accept that there are others who are not of your religion? Why do you think that you are superior to everyone else?

The reason I called his post shit is because it is not true, regardless of belief. The poster says that science has disproved religion.
The poster makes statements about religions which are incorrect.
IN NO WAY HAVE I CRITICIZED HIM FOR HIS BELIEFS.

Please get off your fucking high horse before you start mouthing off calling people bigots and narrow-minded.

[Sage]

Hey everyone, let's not get our panties in a bunch, mmkay? Relax and type civilly. As I had mentioned earlier, it is all a manner of which way you're coming from when you view the world: Scientific facts will often contradict beliefs and beliefs will often contradict scientific facts. Religion and science are seperate paradigms not meant to battle it out with one another. If you use science to justify your religion, you're not using science correctly. If you use religion to justify your science, well, scientists will laugh at you.

There are a lot of good things in the Bible and Qu'ran and other holy scriptures, just as there are also a lot of really awful things. To say anything is inherantly terrible or good in and of itself is foolish.

[Wayvrn]

Hey everyone, let's not get our panties in a bunch, mmkay? Relax and type civilly. As I had mentioned earlier, it is all a manner of which way you're coming from when you view the world: Scientific facts will often contradict beliefs and beliefs will often contradict scientific facts. Religion and science are seperate paradigms not meant to battle it out with one another. If you use science to justify your religion, you're not using science correctly. If you use religion to justify your science, well, scientists will laugh at you.

There are a lot of good things in the Bible and Qu'ran and other holy scriptures, just as there are also a lot of really awful things. To say anything is inherantly terrible or good in and of itself is foolish.

Oh really? Share with us 10 good things just from the bible and elaborate them all too.

[Strength]

This video pretty much explains everything you need/want to know about religion


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

[Wayvrn]

Wow, looks like my quote shut him up and Jacks post shut everybody else up! Also, good work there, Death, you helped lots!

'Pwn @ Religion" - Per usual, aye? :D

[Lucid]

Is anybody a Wiccan? jw

[Death]

Wow, looks like my quote shut him up and Jacks post shut everybody else up! Also, good work there, Death, you helped lots!

'Pwn @ Religion" - Per usual, aye? :D

*Laughs*, yeah, thanks Wayvrn! How long it'll last? Can't be sure, but I know what I'm hoping for! But yes, as was mentioned before, people shoouldn't start saying that religion is fact since there isn't real proof for that. Most pople don't mind criticism since you can argue back with evidence but the ten to think otherwise when it comes to faith. Why? Becuase they have no evidence to fight back with. They cannot support their far-fetched views so they have to object with the fact that they are being criticised instead. Sad.

Is anybody a Wiccan? jw

Nope. Simply out of interest, have you got any evidence that you wish to share with us? Thanks in advance.