Religion

[Apparitions]

Actually, there are few others before him wrote that.
Yes, but the randomness of it made it perfect :D

[Angel Androgynous]

People who don't want their beliefs to be laughed at... shouldn't have such funny beliefs.

[deadpie]

However, the Bible is not there to try to explain how lightning happens. There is that God created the world in 7 days. Did he? WHO CARES?

"Who cares". What amazing words. Seems like the argument over religion is finally done with. Case closed.

The bible is NOT a geographical/historical/cultural book. It is a religious book, the religious message is important. Other elements aside from the religious message are trivial and can be ignored.

Ok, but then why does the Bible act like a gographical/historical/cultural book at times? If none of that is true or relevant then why should I believe in any of the rest? Am I really supposed to take the Bible seriously if the wrongly bullshit science parts of it aren't true? Like I can't NOT look at that. I'm going to see it and laugh at it no matter what.

Now, let's talk about Bible and science for a little bit.

Let's start off with the hypocrisy at the start of Genesis.

And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. Genesis 1:24

Doesn't this sound like God let the Earth start evolution right there? Doesn't that contradict creationism? This is a very funny verse to bring up now, because it can definitely lead up a long debate, huh?

Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch. And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits. Genesis 6:14-15


Now, this is kind of wacky. Quoting from an old post of mine, I'll try to take a dump on this Noah's Ark story quickly, because this is going to be a VERY LONG post. This is what happens when Tim gets Chili and borrows a friends hookah, he has fun with religious debates online!

The Flood would have no purpose unless it flooded the entire earth to the mountain tops, but there is not enough water on earth to flood every continent to the top of the highest mountains. Forty days of the heaviest rain imaginable would scarecely make a difference and, in any case, rain comes from the sea and would quicky drain back into the sea.

The Bible vaguely mentions water from the deep - under the earth - but there never was any such water. In any case it would have to defy the laws of gravity to reach the surface, and to stay there for a whole year.

The Bible says that Noah lived for a further 350 years after the Flood. Having personally talked to God, been rescued from the greatest disaster in human history, and being the direct ancestor of every living person, it is inconceivable that no written record exists of the subsequent life of this great man. No one sought Noah's advice, and even the worship of the God who had saved Noah had totally disappeared by the time of Abraham, who knew nothing of his supposedly still-living ancestor.


The total volume of water on Earth is about 1.4 billion cubic kilometers
Volume of a sphere = 4/3 r3 where r=radius
Radius of Earth = 6,378.15 Kilometers
Height of Mt. Everest = 8.85 Kilometers
The volume of water needed to cover Earth to the height of Mt. Everest is approximately the difference in volume of a sphere needed to encompass Mt. Everest and the volume of a sphere the size of the Earth.
Volume of a sphere encompassing the Earth at sea level
= 4/3 (6,378.15 KM)3 = 1,086,825,918,019 KM3
Volume of a sphere encompassing Mt. Everest
= 4/3 (6,378.15 + 8.85 KM)3 = 1,091,388,460,971 KM3
The Difference = 4,530,488,766 KM3
Notice that this is more than 3 TIMES the amount of water presently on Earth.

How do you explain the relative ages of mountains? For example, why weren't the Sierra Nevadas eroded as much as the Appalachians during the Flood?

Why is there no evidence of a flood in ice core series? Ice cores from Greenland have been dated back more than 40,000 years by counting annual layers. A worldwide flood would be expected to leave a layer of sediments, noticeable changes in salinity and oxygen isotope ratios, fractures from buoyancy and thermal stresses, a hiatus in trapped air bubbles, and probably other evidence. Why doesn't such evidence show up?

How are the polar ice caps even possible? Such a mass of water as the Flood would have provided sufficient buoyancy to float the polar caps off their beds and break them up. They wouldn't regrow quickly. In fact, the Greenland ice cap would not regrow under modern (last 10 ky) climatic conditions.

Why did the Flood not leave traces on the sea floors? A year long flood should be recognizable in sea bottom cores by (1) an uncharacteristic amount of terrestrial detritus, (2) different grain size distributions in the sediment, (3) a shift in oxygen isotope ratios (rain has a different isotopic composition from seawater), (4) a massive extinction, and (n) other characters. Why do none of these show up?

Why is there no evidence of a flood in tree ring dating? Tree ring records go back more than 10,000 years, with no evidence of a catastrophe during that time.

Some sources:
Sources: Here. (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_some_proofs_against_the_Biblical_flood)
Here. (http://www.space.com/)
Here. (http://www.epicidiot.com/evo_cre/noahs_flood.htm)

------Moving on.

And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. Genesis 11:1


I'm going to disagree with you here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_first_written_accounts)

So let all thine enemies perish, O LORD: but let them that love him be as the sun when he goeth forth in his might. And the land had rest forty years. Judges 5:31


Hmmm. I don't think that the Sun revolves around the Earth. If you disagree, read up on this. (http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=15528)

He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them. Samuel 2:8

The last time I checked, Earth isn't held by Pillars.

And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD? Exodus 4:11


Ok, so here God gives people disabilities. Although, if you're trying to say it in a view point of birth, which is never noted if that's what God is meaning, then what causes people to go deaf, blind, and etc? Obvious reasons you can understand if you do research! Also, genetics plays a big role in the outcome of a child and the disabilities some have.

Unless, of course, you don't believe in genetics, which is fucking dumb.

Praise the LORD from the earth, ye dragons, and all deeps: Pslam 148:7

Dragons don't exist.

And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. Isiah 2:19

God causes earthquakes? Oh my! In case you don't understand the science of earthquakes children, here's this. (http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learn/kids/eqscience.php)

But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Matthew 24:37


As Christians like to ignore the old testament or say Noah's Ark was just a story, that's kind of dumb, because Jesus believed it happened, so why wouldn't you? And the flood never happened, so Jesus is wrong. Uh oh! Someone doesn't know what they're talking about.

And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst. Luke 23:44-45

You would think at least ONE person would be writing that this happened.

And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. Relevation 7:1

John, you might just have schizophrenia.

And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. Revelation 12:4

The Bible, directed by Michael Bay. Tagline: Pointless violence that makes no sense and goes on and on leaving you completely bored and losing half your IQ.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; that they are without excuse Romans 1:20

Pretty much saying, "God is real, because God is real and that is all".

How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. Acts 10:38


Now you know who to blame when you get sick or get the flu. It's the fucking devil! That douche bag! I bet it's him who keeps trying to throw down my blood sugar on a daily basis. That monster is killing my stomach and kidneys! Why would he do such a thing to me? I'm not a Christian, so why would he hurt me? What an asshat!

Luckily, there's prayer! According to the Bible, if I just pray, all of my diabetus (hur hur), mental and other crazy health conditions will go away. That goes for those stupid flu viruses too!

Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. James 5:14-15


And another thing, I've noted that here on this site, agnostics and atheists group together.

Do you mean when it comes to debating at people? Yeah, there's a lot of atheist liberal angry teens on here. What do you expect? This is a place for people that want help. Most people that are depressed, as of how I think of this, are more open minded and understand the World more. Maybe this is just sounding really fucking stupid and viewed in only one way, but we definitely are going to pull out bigger and stronger debates without putting down a fight more than the Christians on here who last for four or five useless posts and never come back to the thread.

you think that only Christianity has denominations.

I don't remember ever saying that. Can you point the part out where I said that? Man, I'd feel so fucking dumb that I'd quit this site, light myself on fire and being my own feces if I actually said something as dumb as that.

In a way even 'agnosticism' has denominations if you want. There are 'agnostic theists' , 'agnostic atheists', just 'agnostics'. So tell me, which one of them is true?

Agnostic atheist? Can you explain that to me?


And anyway, this to all of you: I didn't read half of all your posts. All you do is offend and spew shit.

This post I'm really, REALLY trying to not be offensive or rude. I'm trying not to curse as much either because I know that makes the debate and points easier to understand and better to read.

If you want to be atheist, agnostic, christian, suck dicks, GO AHEAD.

Wow. What's with the sudden change of religion to sucking on a penis? Was that necessary? Weren't you the one that was just saying people are trying to offend and spew shit?

Nothing changes for me. Whether you're atheists or anything else makes absolutely NO DIFFERENCE to me.

If you really don't care, then stop debating. You're contradicting yourself each time you make a post while not wanting to. I'm sort of like that too at times because I don't like dissecting people's stupidity, but you know, it's whatever. I have nothing better to do at 1:47 AM.

When, really and truly I don't give a fuck about what you think about my religion.

Glad to know. I'll always remember in my head, "Confusion, the man who doesn't give a fuck what you think of his religion."

Do you really feel like you can hold that title though? Isn't that more for people who are Scientologists and Mormons? Maybe that's a dumb point, I don't know.

[Fushigi]

i personally believe that no religion is superior to another.. it's just that different religions do differ in some aspects , that's why there are some conflicts and misunderstandings.. some thinks that, what they do is the right thing because it is acceptable to their religion and vice versa.. :)

[Bougainvillea]

i personally believe that no religion is superior to another.. it's just that different religions do differ in some aspects , that's why there are some conflicts and misunderstandings.. some thinks that, what they do is the right thing because it is acceptable to their religion and vice versa.. :)

I don't think the deaths of millions of people is honestly just "conflicts and misunderstandings".

[Genghis Khan]

Agnostic atheist? Can you explain that to me?

By Agnostic Atheist she means a person who doesn't know for certain if there is or isn't a God, but still doesn't believe in him then Agnostic Theist being someone who believes in God but doesn't know for a fact he exists. I'd still refrain from calling them 'denominations' though.

[StoppingTime]

What happened to the poll at the top of this post?

[Angel Androgynous]

What happened to the poll at the top of this post?

Wiccan Magic...:cool:

[Jess]

What happened to the poll at the top of this post?

holy crap you're right! all the votes are gone. there were so many!

what happened? o_o

[Korashk]

holy crap you're right! all the votes are gone. there were so many!

what happened? o_o
It must be a site bug or something. The votes are still there.

[Sage]

What happened to the poll at the top of this post?

holy crap you're right! all the votes are gone. there were so many!

what happened? o_o

It must be a site bug or something. The votes are still there.

I requested earlier that the poll options be reset since some of the votes were 2-3 years old, and I know for certain a lot of people have changed their views since then. I suspect that there was an error in the reset that hasn't been fixed yet. It's been reset before, so don't worry, it'll be fixed sooner or later.

[Simon.]

Roman Catholic.

[casanova98]

im pretty sure im agnostic, im not really religious, but i believe in god, but i also like question his meaning and stuff i guess

[macbox84]

I'm non religious...I dnt believe in organized religion...I just doesn't get it...I totally respect others who have different views I dnt care what ur religion is. I feel that paying tribute and praying to a higher power takes away from who we are and takes us away from believing in ourselves to take control of what we do and who we are but have to have something or someone else dictate that for us.

[Korashk]

im pretty sure im agnostic, im not really religious, but i believe in god, but i also like question his meaning and stuff i guess
If you believe in god then you're not agnostic. You're likely an agnostic, or weak, theist.

Actual agnostics are exceedingly rare.

[Maxxie]

Wiccan Magic...:cool:

Wiccan Magic. No. Definitely Voodoo. :cool:

[Aragorn]

I am the jewboy!

[Apparitions]

I am the jewboy!
You say that like you're proud of your delusions...






Well, it was there for the taking and just so tempting to troll him...

[Peace God]

You say that like you're proud of your delusions...






Well, it was there for the taking and just so tempting to troll him...
You say that like you're proud of your bad taste in jokes.

What bugs me is that if a christian would've said what you said, half the people here would flip out.

Seriously man, act like you've been an atheist for more than a week and a half.

[Apparitions]

You say that like you're proud of your bad taste in jokes.

What bugs me is that if a christian would've said what you said, half the people here would flip out.

Seriously man, act like you've been an atheist for more than a week and a half.
Meh.

[Angel Androgynous]

hCovYF51qHE
Hmm....

[Slytherin_Prince]

I'm a deist myself. I don't technically believe that there is a god that is actively doing things, or some overspanning entity that somehow controls everything.
I don't believe that things can be solved by praying, or anything like that.
Religion, in my opinion, is a way to explain things that cannot be explained otherwise, or is a way to make oneself feel better in times of adversity.
I cannot rationally state that there is no god whatsoever either though.
So, I'm a deist. I believe that there's something more, but if it's there, it's a very passive deity indeed.
Until it can be proven that there is nothing more, however, it would be irrational of me to exclude the possiblity.

Most sincerely,
Robert.

[mike3_1]

hCovYF51qHE
Hmm....

The religious are hypocrites. They are ignorant of other's beliefs yet they shove their beliefs down our throats. I think this video shows how wrong the religious are.

Proud atheist!

[Slytherin_Prince]

The religious are hypocrites. They are ignorant of other's beliefs yet they shove their beliefs down our throats. I think this video shows how wrong the religious are.

Proud atheist!

Aren't you generalising right now? Not all religious people want to force their beliefs upon the rest of humanity. Some do, sure, but saying all of them do is like saying that all germans are nazis, or that everyone who looks middle-eastern is a terrorist.

Most sincerely,
Robert.

[Vonn]

hCovYF51qHE
Hmm....

So the Bible is filled with numerous accounts of God being the king of assholes. Why would anyone want to willingly worship him, except out of fear? Who is this "good, perfect, loving" God everyone speaks of?

[Maxxie]

So the Bible is filled with numerous accounts of God being the king of assholes. Why would anyone want to willingly worship him, except out of fear? Who is this "good, perfect, loving" God everyone speaks of?

Right out of the mouth of every single apologetic I've ever heard.

I was always confused with the term "God-fearing". Should that be a virtue? Or is fearing an omnipotent, omniscient deity something that should be taken for granted, seeing as how he can (and will) strike down an entire civilization by calling up one of his dirty workers from hell?

[embers]

If you take the time to watch this, it will be worth it.

E15IC3YKv8g

[Genghis Khan]

The religious are hypocrites. They are ignorant of other's beliefs yet they shove their beliefs down our throats. I think this video shows how wrong the religious are.

Proud atheist!

Grow up.

[Maxxie]

I feel like no one wants to "discuss" things "nicely" with us "gentle" atheists. Are we that [insert adjective here]?

[mike3_1]

u can post any Q and i shall try to answer it....

p.s. im not a teenager, sorry there

ummm.

1. this is a TEENS site. only people from 13-19 are allowed.
2. this is NOT the introductions forum.

therefore i'm reporting your post as spam.

[TheMatrix]

ummm.

1. this is a TEENS site. only people from 13-19 are allowed.
2. this is NOT the introductions forum.

therefore i'm reporting your post as spam.
Excuse me, I am the moderator here. Just saying. And your posting that is just as bad as their spamming.
It is not your postion to tell other members how to go about doing things.

[Apparitions]

....

[thecanjump]

I can't follow an organized religion, they have too much corruption. I believe in Almighty Being but not in a white bearded man in the sky. Being one with yourself and the world around is something I like to believe in. Many think I am high all the time but I'm just enjoying life through natural high. One day (when I die) life's questions will be answered or not; I may get them or may not. All matters with the after-life.

Life and the beauty of the world (minus all the corruption of society) is the best gift one can have. I love life and enjoy all most every minute (even the boring times in school).

[mike3_1]

Excuse me, I am the moderator here. Just saying. And your posting that is just as bad as their spamming.
It is not your postion to tell other members how to go about doing things.

I'm sorry. I was just trying to do the right thing. I seen that this was their only post, and they said they were not a teenager so I was just saying to them. I'm trying to do the right thing and I still get "yelled" at.

[Maxxie]

Well, I'm going to bring my Atheist hate-filled rhetoric back to this thread to avoid randomly ranting (ran-ranting? I think so... :cool:) on other people's threads... yeah. Let's go with that.

Alright. What to -discuss- rage about?

[Jean Poutine]

ummm.

1. this is a TEENS site. only people from 13-19 are allowed.
2. this is NOT the introductions forum.

therefore i'm reporting your post as spam.

*points at age*

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/trollface-problem.jpg

[AlmostHomeless]

I've been atheist since early childhood. I feel like my parents hate me for it. They always say I'm wrong or that I don't understand the world or that I'm not old enough to "think about deep subjects like these". My mom always tries to argue that she has better morality because of christianity.

[Maxxie]

I've been atheist since early childhood. I feel like my parents hate me for it. They always say I'm wrong or that I don't understand the world or that I'm not old enough to "think about deep subjects like these". My mom always tries to argue that she has better morality because of christianity.

She does, though.

[AlmostHomeless]

She does, though.

What?

[Dabigdtc]

what up:] my faith kind of weird. im chistian but i dont belive in jesus or hell or the bible!! a little stange but i do belive in god and heaven. that me for ya :)!!!:yeah:

same for me

[Maxxie]

What?

Sarcasm. I was saying she had a better sense or morality because she's [insert religion here].

[RyanKo]

I'm a Atheism and I don't believe anything.

[Jean Poutine]

I'm a Atheism and I don't believe anything.

Cool. I'm a Catholicism. I don't really believe anything either - delusions?

[Maxxie]

Cool. I'm a Catholicism. I don't really believe anything either - delusions?

I see what you did thar.

[Apparitions]

She does, though.
lolnope

[Jupiter]

Here.
I don't go to church, I go to meeting. There are 4 places in the Bible it says to have church in houses. We have no preachers, just "workers." They do not get paid, have a home, etc. They live in the houses of the "friends." About 15 or so of us meet in a house, and we all sing a hymn, then we each give our own prayer, we all sing a hymn, then we all give the testimony, and hymn, communion and then a hymn. it lasts about an hour :)

[Genghis Khan]

I'm a Atheism and I don't believe anything.

Oh man, I'm in tears. Funniest thing I've read all month. Sigged, +rep +respect +my virginity. Everything.

[Theone15]

Wicca, nuff said

[White]

same for me

Thats called being an Agonist... You believe in a God, but nothing else. You just don't know what God is or does or who he is or what he is....

[Rawwwrr]

I put Atheist but I'm really Secular Humanist :)

[deadpie]

ITT How awesome Christianity is:

JLT66yJBYbA

7NazUXGM-vs

924MCB12MfA

Doesn't get any more open minded than "God said it, I believe it, and that settles it for me!"

[randomnessqueen]

i dont belong to a single faith. i believe in an omnipresent creative force that makes up the universe and all living things. this entity is formless, has no beginning and no end. i believe that all religions have been expressions of this one entity, made to help people of the place and time. this world is a physical manifestation that has always existed in some form and always will and every life is equally immortal. this force describes a natural way of the universe, and if one lives a good life in sync with this way, their next birth will be in a higher form. a form closer to "god".

[Sage]

i dont belong to a single faith. i believe in an omnipresent creative force that makes up the universe and all living things. this entity is formless, has no beginning and no end. i believe that all religions have been expressions of this one entity, made to help people of the place and time. this world is a physical manifestation that has always existed in some form and always will and every life is equally immortal. this force describes a natural way of the universe, and if one lives a good life in sync with this way, their next birth will be in a higher form. a form closer to "god".

Cool. Why?

[deadpie]

i dont belong to a single faith. i believe in an omnipresent creative force that makes up the universe and all living things.

You don't believe in the type of faith others believe in, but you must have faith that this creative force does exists to even believe in it, no matter how little or the form of the faith itself is. Amarite? This isn't really a debate i'm trying to say (yet), just trying to understand and clean things up.

this entity is formless, has no beginning and no end. i believe that all religions have been expressions of this one entity, made to help people of the place and time.

Ok, well that is theoretical, also based off faith, because you believe this to be true with your brain, also basing it off self thought. Also, are you saying Atheists, agnostics and more spiritual-without-lovey-dovey-God-type-religions are irrelevant then? That's kind of dorky, no offense.

We need a God, doesn't matter what form of God through religions, that doesn't exist to help us so we're connected towards this God we don't know about that does exist. HMMMMMMMMM.......

this world is a physical manifestation

Here's a good quote from a book I was reading upon a few days ago. I highlighted this part while stoned off my mind :P -

Beginning with the physical human being and taking a micro-look, we are all built of parts and pieces, systems and organs. Each of these in turn is built of cells, which are built of atoms, then of protons, neutrons, and electrons. Each of these is built of even smaller lives, and on it goes . . . without end. Similarly, if we start again with the physical human being and go outward, taking a macro-approach, we see that we are part of a family, a community, a city, a state, a nation, a world, a solar system, a galaxy, a universe, and so on . . . also without end.

That is the way we see physical existence manifest around, above, and within our bodies. But the basis for ourselves and the visible world is not physical manifestation.

that has always existed in some form and always will and every life is equally immortal.

But you have to understand this planet is not immortal. It will eventually be destroyed, be it by asteroids, us, the sun, et al. Even less, humans. We are not immortal. We're less than a tiny spec of a tiny spec of a mother-fucking tiny cock sucking spec. We have a beginning and end. The Earth had a beginning and it will end. This galaxy will eventually end. This universe might even end at some point due to some theories.

As psuedo as this conversation is getting, I want to sort of dwell into it because I feel very fucking manic right now like I'm scratching a chalk board with my teeth and my chin is rubbing against it at the same time.


this force describes a natural way of the universe

What is so natural about this universe? The universe is the opposite of natural! It's always changing, evolving, devolving, creating, destroying, falling apart, things exploding, fuck natural is the wrong word to describe the universe.

This God does a shitty job keeping the UV Rays from getting my Grandpa cancer on his penis. This is not a perfect world.

Unless you're wanting to say the spontaneous-ness of the universe is what makes it natural, then your God is an interesting God and I like this God over all the other Gods. In fact, it makes better because your God is technically in control of the other Gods from what you've said before, because these false Gods people pray to are supposed to make people happy.

Then again the fake Gods don't always make people happy and do good things. They make people chop heads off, throw children into fires, LRA is a good example, beat a gay person with the butt of a shotgun, crusades, fucking WAR. God has a bad job making the fake Gods do a good job. So your God on a scale of 1 to 10 is a 4 for me, but because of his idea of spontaneous natural universe that's where the points come in.

and if one lives a good life in sync with this way their next birth will be in a higher form. a form closer to "god".

That makes no sense at all. Also, where do you get this information? You made this information up about your crazed God ideal and it just gets crazier and lronhubbart-er by the sentence!

What if one didn't even get to live a life in the first place? Say child dies at young age. What higher form do they go up to? Does it even fucking matter? Why does this God who loves the idea of a natural spontaneous universe all of a sudden want human life to be gradual?

I'm not buying it. Sorry. Try not to take offense, but I think your philosophy is wacky and funny. Also, I don't mind if you neg rep me for this post. It's written under a HUGE episode of fucking mania.

[Empty Spaces]

Orthodox Christianity :)

[TayTay]

I'm a Latter Day Saint. I don't like the idea of 'forcing your beliefs' on others, so I don't go intentionally trying to convert everyone I see. I know alot of people think that Mormons 'shove it down throats' but that's not true and kind of negative. I know that I don't do that, there are some that do, but not all of us. Very few of us actually go around converting EVERYONE and shoving it down throats.

And I do disagree with one thing that was said in the first post. It said no one can know for sure that they are right. That is false. It is possible to know for certain that you are right in your faith. I have found that. It comes from praying sincerely while wanting to know the truth and scripture study. Many people are 100% sure they are in the right faith. Just saying. Not starting a fight.

And I never realized how many Atheists there were on here! I thought the majority of people, even teens, believed in God. Hmm. Learn something new everyday.

[embers]

And I do disagree with one thing that was said in the first post. It said no one can know for sure that they are right. That is false. It is possible to know for certain that you are right in your faith. I have found that. It comes from praying sincerely while wanting to know the truth and scripture study. Many people are 100% sure they are in the right faith. Just saying. Not starting a fight.

Whether or not you feel your faith is right has no difference on whether or not it's actually correct.

[Rawwwrr]

And I do disagree with one thing that was said in the first post. It said no one can know for sure that they are right. That is false. It is possible to know for certain that you are right in your faith. I have found that. It comes from praying sincerely while wanting to know the truth and scripture study. Many people are 100% sure they are in the right faith. Just saying. Not starting a fight.

You're wrong. Incorrect. You 100% believe that you're right. You cannot know. End of story. Do not bother responding to this because you are wrong, just take it on board and accept it.

[danny dangermouse]

I'm an agnostic. That is, I'm 50/50 on whether science is 100% accurate and everything created itself from scratch, or whether there is some kind of higher entity.

The organised religions, they're all bull shit.

[Jess]

I'm a Latter Day Saint. I don't like the idea of 'forcing your beliefs' on others, so I don't go intentionally trying to convert everyone I see. I know alot of people think that Mormons 'shove it down throats' but that's not true and kind of negative. I know that I don't do that, there are some that do, but not all of us. Very few of us actually go around converting EVERYONE and shoving it down throats.

And I do disagree with one thing that was said in the first post. It said no one can know for sure that they are right. That is false. It is possible to know for certain that you are right in your faith. I have found that. It comes from praying sincerely while wanting to know the truth and scripture study. Many people are 100% sure they are in the right faith. Just saying. Not starting a fight.

And I never realized how many Atheists there were on here! I thought the majority of people, even teens, believed in God. Hmm. Learn something new everyday.

actually, before the poll was reset, the religion with the most votes was Christianity. Atheism came close.

[deadpie]

Copypasta from CultOfDusty

This is a point by point dissection of every piece of "historical evidence" Christian apologist give to support their claim that a man named Jesus even existed. You'll notice right away that none of these are contemporaries of Jesus and thus none of them were alive when Jesus was. So right away, no eyewitnesses. But this is the best of the best of what Christians will try to offer in place of actual evidence.

JOSEPHUS

The famous Testamonium Flavianum is considered probably the best evidence for Jesus, yet it has some serious problems. The T.F. as it stands uses clearly Christian phrases and names Christ as Messiah, it could not possibly have been written by the Jew Josephus (who refused to call anyone "messiah"). The T.F. comes in several versions of various ages. The T.F. was not mentioned by Origen when he reviewed Josephus - Origen even says Josephus does NOT call Jesus the Messiah, showing the passage was not present in that earlier era. The T.F. first showed up in manuscripts of Eusebius, and was still absent from some manuscripts as late as 8th century. The T.F is well accepted by historical scholars, both religious and secular, as a total forgery or at best a corrupt form of a lost original.


TACITUS

Written roughly 80 years after the alleged events, Tacitus allegedly wrote a famous passage about "Christ" - this passage also has several problems in that Tacitus uses the term "procurator", used in his later times, but not correct for the actual period, when "prefect" was used. Tacitus names the person as "Christ", when Roman records could not possibly have used this name (it would have been "Jesus, son of Joseph" or similar.) The passage is paraphrased by Sulpicius Severus in the 5th century without attributing it to Tacitus, and may have been inserted back into Tacitus from this work.

This evidence speaks AGAINST it being based on any Roman records -
but merely a few details which Tacitus gathered from Christian stories circulating in his time. So, this passage is NOT evidence for Jesus,
it's just evidence for 2nd century Christian stories about a Jesus.

PLINY the Younger

About 80 years after the alleged events, Pliny referred to Christians who worshipped a "Christ" as a god, but there is no reference to a historical Jesus or Gospel events. So Pliny is not evidence for a historical Jesus,
just evidence for 2nd century Christians who worshipped a Christ.

SUETONIUS

Roughly 80-90 years after the alleged Gospel events, Suetonius refers to a "Chrestus" who stirred the Jews to trouble in Rome during Claudius' time, but "Chrestus" is a Greek name (from "useful"), and is also a mystic name for an initiate, it is not the same as "Christos". Also, according to Suetonius, this Chrestus was apparently active in Rome, Jesus never was. So, this passage is not evidence for Jesus, it's nothing to do with Jesus. It's evidence for Christians grasping at straws.

IGNATIUS

The letters of Ignatius are traditionally dated to c.107, yet it is not clear if he really existed. His story is suspicious, his letters are notoriously corrupt and in 2 versions, It is probable that his letters were later forgeries and he mentions only a tiny few items about a Jesus. Ignatius is no evidence for Jesus himself,
at BEST it is 2nd century evidence to a few beliefs about a Jesus.

THALLUS (date unknown)

We have NO certain evidence when Thallus lived or wrote, there are NONE of Thallus' works extant. What we DO have is a 9th century reference by George Syncellus who quotes the 3rd century Julianus Africanus, who, speaking of the darkness at the crucifixion, wrote: "Thallus calls this darkness an eclipse".
But, there is NO evidence Thallus made specific reference to Jesus or the Gospel events at all, as there WAS an eclipse in 29. This suggests he merely referred to a known eclipse, but that LATER Christians MIS-interpreted his comment to mean their darkness. So Thallus is no evidence for Jesus at all,
merely evidence for Christian wishful thinking.

PHLEGON

Phlegon wrote during the 140s - his works are lost. Later, Origen, Eusebius, and Julianus Africanus refer to him, but quote differently his reference to an eclipse. There is no evidence Phlegon actually said anything about Gospel events, he was merely talking about an eclipse (they DO happen) which LATER Christians argued was the "darkness" in their stories.
So, Phlegon is no evidence for Jesus at all - merely evidence for Christian wishful thinking.

VALENTINUS

In mid 2nd century the GNOSTIC Valentinus almost became Bishop of Rome, but:
* he was several generations after the alleged events,
* he wrote of an esoteric, Gnostic Jesus and Christ,
* he mentioned no historical details about Jesus.
So, Valentinus is no evidence for a historical Jesus.

POLYCARP

Polycarp wrote in mid 2nd century, but :
* he is several generations after the alleged events,
* he gives many sayings of Jesus (some of which do NOT match the Gospels),
* he does NOT name any evangelist or Gospel.
So, Polycarp knew sayings of Jesus but provides no actual evidence for a historical Jesus.

LUCIAN

Nearly one-and-a-half CENTURIES after the alleged events, Lucian satirised Christians, but this was several generations later. Lucian does NOT even mention a Jesus or a Christ by name. So Lucian is no evidence for a historical Jesus, merely late 2nd century lampooning of Christians.

GALEN

Late 2nd century, Galen makes a few references to 'Christians'.

TALMUD

There are some possible references in the Talmud, but these references are from 3rd century or later, and seem to be unfriendly Jewish responses to Christian claims. The references are highly variant, have many cryptic names for this Jesus, and very different to the Gospel stories (e.g. one story has "Jesus" born about 100BC.) So the Talmud contains NO evidence for Jesus,
the Talmud merely has much later Jewish responses to the Gospel stories.

MARA BAR SERAPION
A fragment of his work includes -
"... What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King?",
in the context of ancient leaders like Socrates. It is NOT at all clear WHEN this manuscript was written, nor exactly who it is referring too, but there is no evidence it is Jesus.

In all the above, everything that was written...or alleged to have been written came between 60 - 200 years after the alleged events. There is absolutely no contemporaneous evidence whatsoever to support a Jesus of Nazareth having existed. There wasn't even a 'town' called Nazareth until 2nd or 3rd century CE.

The "evidence" of Hercules closely parallels that of Jesus. We have historical people like Hesiod and Plato who mentions Hercules. Similar to the way the gospels tell a narrative story of JC, we have the epic stories of Homer who depict the life of Hercules. Aesop tells stories and quotes the words of Hercules. Just as we have a brief (forged) mention of Jesus by Joesphus in his Antiquities, Joesphus also mentions Hercules (more times than Jesus), in the very same work. Just as Tacitus mentions a Christus, so does he also mention Hercules many times in his Annals. And most importantly, just as we have no artefacts, writings or eyewitnesses about Hercules, we also have nothing about Jesus. All information about Hercules and JC comes from stories, beliefs, and hearsay. Should we then believe in a historical Hercules, simply because ancient historians mention him and that we have stories and beliefs about him? Of course not, and the same must apply to JC if we wish to hold any consistency to historicity."

There is no definitive evidence of a specific Jesus of Nazareth who preached and was crucified by the Romans.

What does one accept as evidence? Most historical figures are based on their accounts by contemporaries. The best hearsay evidence is that which is recorded by the man/woman's own people, and recorded by other people including enemies who have nothing to gain. The existence of Julius Caesar is quite reliable in that he left writings. His death led to a Roman Civil War with battles recorded. Julius was known by the Gauls, the Greeks, and the Egyptians.

The same applies to Octavian, Nero, Constantine, and Theodosius. Cyrus and Xerxes of Persia were well documented by Persian and Greek historians.

Jesus has a weaker case in that he left no writings. His only accounts claiming to know him were the Gospels which were by those who wanted to believe in him. Logically one can never prove Jesus didn't exist. But the Roman historians only mention that there were people who believed in a Jesus. The Romans meticulously recorded the execution of rebel leaders, insurrectionists, rival Emperors, rebellious native kings, or over-ambitious generals. They spread the news of such executions to serve as warnings to would be rebels or royal claimants. Examples were made of Vercingetorix of the Gauls, Boadica of the Icenii, Antonius and Cleopatra, Pompeii, and Queen Zenobia of Syria.

We should question why the Romans did not make Jesus into another "dead rebel" example. Yet they fail to even mention it in official records. All of this makes the existence of a human Jesus at the very best "controversial."

The divinity mythology is clearly myth, it seems to have been copied from perhaps a dozen older virgin born god-men redeemers who died and resurrected. It is interesting that those who made Jesus into a god were not the Jews who were around him, but pagan Romans and Greeks who, not surprisingly, used the traditional god-man redeemer story applied to him.

If Jesus actually healed lots of people, why did he do it? If he did it because he cared about them, why did he only heal a very small fraction of the sick people in the world? If he did it in order to demonstrate his power, why did he restrict demonstrating his power to a very small geographic region in the world? If you rose from the dead, and wanted people to know that you rose from the dead, you would not limit your appearances to just a few people in one small geographic region in the world. There do not seem to be sensible motives for many of the things that JC did, which suggest that he did not do many of the things that the New Testament attributes to him.

The case is weak because no one living and writing in the early to mid-first century ever seems to have heard of him.

We are left with a pile of self-serving religious documents which could easily have been tampered with throughout the years.

Philo of Alexandria wrote to Gaius Caligula, c. 40 CE, in which he spent a whole paragraph complaining what a miserable prat Pontius Pilate had been. In the course of that denunciation he never mentions that Pilate may have killed someone who "multitudes" hailed as the Messiah. Even more amazingly, he never mentions that the man that Pilate killed supposedly "came back to life" which would seem to be a pretty clear indication that "god or the gods" were not happy with Pilate's action.

Yet....not a word. Clearly, the story of Jesus had not been invented in 40 CE!!

[Abyssinian]

I'm currently trying to find a religion that suits my beliefs.. I'm researching Taoism and Hedonism extensively, but I'm finding making an official decision quite challenging..

[georgiamay]

I'm currently trying to find a religion that suits my beliefs.. I'm researching Taoism and Hedonism extensively, but I'm finding making an official decision quite challenging..

Hedonism isn't a religion, it's a school of thought about an idea that pleasure is the only good, and pain is bad and evil.

[bwdude15]

Christian - Baptist :)

[Iris]

The world is just god's used condom.

[kenoloor]

The world is just god's used condom.

So...it's fucked?

[Abyssinian]

Hedonism isn't a religion, it's a school of thought about an idea that pleasure is the only good, and pain is bad and evil.
In that respect, Buddhism and Taoism are also schools of thought, or like... life philosophies... I don't really see how religions without deities really count, but they do. So I kinda just lumped Hedonism in there. Whoops.

[wowisawesome]

Agnostic is the way to go. It is arrogant to bluntly state "hurrr there is no god" or "hurrr there is a god" nobody knows. That's it. There's no debating that.

[Cybercode]

You know what, I'm gonna go Scientology. I have officially converted from Christianity to Scientology.

[embers]

You know what, I'm gonna go Scientology. I have officially converted from Christianity to Scientology.

Oh you absolute NUTTER

[Cybercode]

I can't tell which one of those choices is dumber.

That is from my rep. Why do people use the rep system to neg rep people that have opposing views. Technically this is bashing. I don't know who did this, but I made a point the mods that people have been abusing the system.

Oh you absolute NUTTER

Why? Because I am following faith. That is completely ignorant.

[embers]

Why? Because I am following faith. That is completely ignorant.

It was more of semi-supportive sarcasm, but it's cool, I'll be ignorant if you want me to.

[Cybercode]

It was more of semi-supportive sarcasm, but it's cool, I'll be ignorant if you want me to.

Sorry. I was already pissed off because someone decided to abuse the rep system and give me a neg rep on this thread.

[fatguystrangler]

That is from my rep. Why do people use the rep system to neg rep people that have opposing views. Technically this is bashing. I don't know who did this, but I made a point the mods that people have been abusing the system.



Why? Because I am following faith. That is completely ignorant.

IMO the rating system should be removed. It is abused by faggy little children who don't like you. Pretty much used for no other reason.

[Cybercode]

IMO the rating system should be removed. It is abused by faggy little children who don't like you. Pretty much used for no other reason.

I wouldn't go that far to insult people. I just think it's immature to neg rep someone because of different views. OK let's end the neg rep thing and get back on topic.

[Sage]

Oh you absolute NUTTER

That is from my rep. Why do people use the rep system to neg rep people that have opposing views. Technically this is bashing. I don't know who did this, but I made a point the mods that people have been abusing the system.



Why? Because I am following faith. That is completely ignorant.

It was more of semi-supportive sarcasm, but it's cool, I'll be ignorant if you want me to.

Sorry. I was already pissed off because someone decided to abuse the rep system and give me a neg rep on this thread.

IMO the rating system should be removed. It is abused by faggy little children who don't like you. Pretty much used for no other reason.

I wouldn't go that far to insult people. I just think it's immature to neg rep someone because of different views. OK let's end the neg rep thing and get back on topic.

Keep it on topic you lot. If you have a problem with the damned rep system, or any part of the website, take it up with staff. This isn't the place for it. Cybercode, I would especially recommend that you be less emotionally invested in petty forum squabbles like that as well, as you're only attracting more negative attention to yourself and fanning the flames of shit staff has to deal with.

[Smeagol]

This is quite an interesting topic. As I am spiritual, but not religious, I have no comment on any particular religion. I do believe, however, that we should not be insulting other people and their personal beliefs on this discussion.

[bigjohnson]

i belive in god with all my heart but idk y he lets people suffer?

[Genghis Khan]

i belive in god with all my heart but idk y he lets people suffer?

Last christmas i gave you my heart and the very next day you sold it on ebay.

[Maxxie]

Is it bad that when I was scrolling up through the thread, I saw the words "Latter Day Saint" and immediately thought "Magnets, how do they work???".

[Buranri]

Eh. I kind of straddle a line between atheism and agnosticism. All the "religions" of this world are bull, to put it very bluntly. Perhaps there's something out there that created the universe. Perhaps there isn't. We'll never know, it'll never actually effect our lives, so I don't see the point in wasting time and energy trying to follow the teachings of some random guy from 2000 years ago.

[Reagan Smash Bros]

I'm an atheist, I just believe the more scientific reasons to everything :)

[emmettman]

like about the islams or our religion

[Jess]

like about the islams or our religion

what? :?

[flumeendeavors]

I grew up in an extremely NON-religious family but i asked to be sent to a catholic high school. I conerted w hen i was around 11 or 12 years old and i love it. I think it has helped me heal and survive through some of my mental illnesses. It might just be me and my personal thoughts but i think that sometimes having something to believe in when youre lost is a really good thing. Although i dont believe everything in the bible, i still pray to God at the end of every day. I love religion .. i find it so fascinating.

[Maxxie]

I find the Higgs boson fascinating.

[Bmatlman]

im a non donominational christian. i bealive because it gives me hope of a better life. it gives me a reason for being here. if you actually look into it there is alot of scientific evidence of god out there. theres a show called 'proving god' on the history channel if you would like to look into said evidence or you can message me for more info.

[Maxxie]

im a non donominational christian. i bealive because it gives me hope of a better life. it gives me a reason for being here. if you actually look into it there is alot of scientific evidence of god out there. theres a show called 'proving god' on the history channel if you would like to look into said evidence or you can message me for more info.

There's also a show called Ancient Aliens.

And MonsterQuest.

And the Nostradaumus effect.

And UFO Hunters.

And lots of stuff about Hitler.

Oh, I need to go to bloody SLEEP. I get really pissy when I'm tired.

[Bmatlman]

yeah the do have some stupid stuff on the channel but this has all the scientific backing up. those other shows are just entertainment without proof.

[Maxxie]

yeah the do have some stupid stuff on the channel but this has all the scientific backing up. those other shows are just entertainment without proof.

It's called Pseudoscience. And it's actually prevalent in every single other History Channel show ever made in the history of ever.

[DoctorLindt]

This will be the weirdest thing you'll ever read, but I have a theory.

You see, I think....

That George Carlin is God.

Yes, I'm not lying. I've invented a new religion called Carlinism. Yes, it's a joke at first, but I realized that it was completely valid. Technically I'm Atheist because I don't believe in GOD, but I believe in George Carlin.

But HEY! People don't have that many reasons to bash me for it. Little to none!

[Maxxie]

Reaffirming my beliefs:

Why should I give a fuck if there's anyone up there? Three things could happen:

A) There is/are a deity(ies) that are unjust and whimsical, and because of which my afterlife is attributed to chance because there is no evidence for their existence therefore I don't believe in them.

B) There is/are a deity(ies) that are just and as such will determine my fate based on actions taken in my life rather than the utterly stupid "virtue" of faith.

C) There is/are no deity(ies) and when I die, my existence and consciousness goes with it.

Three things. And the existence of a "higher power" seems so ludicrous to start with that it's actually rather laughable to begin with.

We live in a universe billions of light years across. Where is your deity? Where does it's consciousness reside, and how can it influence life on Earth, or any other lifeform anywhere in the universe? When people die, they say that "They're up there in Heaven now...".

The funny thing is, a person saying "They're up there" in New York would be saying "They're down there" in Shanghai.

And if this deity exists outside this universal plane of existence (in more than four dimensions), he has no feasible way of influencing life here on Earth, or any where in the Universe, for that matter.

There is no "soul", no quintessential life force that binds the world together. Your thoughts are chemical in origin, your emotions completely synaptic, your personality molecular. When you die, those electrons in your brain stop moving and what made you ceases to exist. That's it. There is no "great darkness", no "black jaws of infinity", simply non-existence. Remember before you were born? That's right, you don't. It's exactly like that after you die.

Now, here's the question: Why do we need an afterlife?

Answer: Life is so fucking fantastic, so ephemeral, so bloody perfect that we don't want to let go.

And that's the crux of the matter.

Isn't this enough? Just... THIS? This one life, amidst others just like ourselves? This existence, living among the stars. We are only tiny motes of consciousness, drifting amongst the tides of existence, and we cannot help but feel a sense of wonder at the cosmos above and the world here below.

I don't believe in a God, a Yahweh, a Zeus, a Tao, a Pantheon, a nirvana, a moksha, a Loa... For the sole fact that there isn't one.

Some of you may call this faith. I don't care. Not now, not before, not ever.

No one has ever proved to me empirically or logically the existence of a higher power, or showed me that higher power directly and without doubt, and no one has ever given me a reason other than fear to believe in an afterlife, therefore I don't.

Is this faith? Perhaps.

What is my evidence? My existence.

EDIT: "Religion gives people a sense of hope." So, people should take comfort in bigoted and hurtful beliefs simply so they can have a little hope?

Nature is not kind. Nature is not cruel. Nature is indifferent. It may be that the universe is a completely hopeless place, a hostile and evil place that owes you no sense of hope.

I do not believe this is the case. I think the vast majority of beings have the capability of seeing and feeling "good", and as such want to proliferate that goodness to others. But we simply can't. There is enough evil in this system we call "citizenship" and "life on Earth" that it overshadows the good.

Sure, there is greed, and yes, there is violence, hate, and evil, but the scales tip in favor of the love, compassion, and joy, and not the darker side.

[Spence97]

im a roman catholic

[rockNroll]

Pastafarian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster) all the way!!

I'm a hardcore atheist, I don't believe in a big man in the sky that rules my life, I'll make my own decisions, thank you. Most people who are religious are just sheep, afraid to not believe 'just in case', but secretly doubting it inside. You don't have to agree with me, I could really care less what you think is real. To quote the ever-wise Marilyn Manson, "I'm not a slave to a god that doesn't exist, and I'm not a slave to a world that doesn't give a s**t"

[joshtheguitard]

I am a Christian. I believe in the Gospel because man cannot rely upon anything else. I study Scripture because I do not proclaim myself to be all-knowing; it has really been my only source of hope as well. So...that's me.

[deadpie]

I believe in the Gospel because man cannot rely upon anything else.

Are you implying the male sex has only relied on the gospel of Christianity only and no other religion and/or philosophy? That's not very rational. You do realize there's more than one religion in the world? You do realize some people also rely on what they know is true rather then what might be true (Which probably isn't due to the strong lack of evidence and evidence that proves those faiths wrong thanks to basic science)?

Hell, I know a man who've relied on nothing but tacos to stay alive for weeks at a time. Worked out for him. Then you have the Christian child relying on the Bible while dying of an incurable disease, then dies. Wow! That really worked out for her! That's sarcasm if you didn't know.

Pretty much what I'm trying to say is

Tacos > God

[joshtheguitard]

Are you implying the male sex has only relied on the gospel of Christianity only and no other religion and/or philosophy? That's not very rational. You do realize there's more than one religion in the world? You do realize some people also rely on what they know is true rather then what might be true (Which probably isn't due to the strong lack of evidence and evidence that proves those faiths wrong thanks to basic science)?

Hell, I know a man who've relied on nothing but tacos to stay alive for weeks at a time. Worked out for him. Then you have the Christian child relying on the Bible while dying of an incurable disease, then dies. Wow! That really worked out for her! That's sarcasm if you didn't know.

Pretty much what I'm trying to say is

Tacos > God

:lol: Maybe I shoulda posted that in the "Unpopular opinions" thread. What I mean (and I think you know what I mean) is that the Gospel is my reality. And you know what? It works for me.

[Magus]

It works for me.
Ever heard of the term "delusion".

[Efflorescence]

You do realize some people also rely on what they know is true rather then what might be true (Which probably isn't due to the strong lack of evidence and evidence that proves those faiths wrong thanks to basic science)?

I do understand what you're saying but that is in most cases, not the case. When we are dealing with things which are abstract, we do rely on what might be true rather than on what we know is true.

When we are dealing with abstract things we have no way of being 100% certain that they are true.

I might be wrong but even when you put faith in a person, do you have a way of being 100% certain that that person is genuine? Do you know for certain? How can you? You have to rely on what you think might be true.

[kenoloor]

I might be wrong but even when you put faith in a person, do you have a way of being 100% certain that that person is genuine? Do you know for certain? How can you? You have to rely on what you think might be true.

People trust others bbecause they have reason to do so. There is a substantial difference between trusting someone and having blind faith in a giant man in the sky.

[Maxxie]

:lol: Maybe I shoulda posted that in the "Unpopular opinions" thread. What I mean (and I think you know what I mean) is that the Gospel is my reality. And you know what? It works for me.

Ariadne: How could I ever acquire enough detail to make them think that it's reality?

Cobb: Well, dreams, they feel real while we're in them right? Its only when we wake up then we realize that something was actually strange.

[Efflorescence]

People trust others bbecause they have reason to do so. There is a substantial difference between trusting someone and having blind faith in a giant man in the sky.

But people are fallible. Many people trust others and sometimes end up disappointed....but they still continue to trust others, basing their attitudes on something that might be true rather than is certainly true.
When we are dealing with feelings, you cannot be certain...because like God, feelings are abstract and so we have no other choice.

And it doesn't mean that because someone has faith in God, then he has blind faith. You can have faith in God but at the same time, ask and be open to different perspectives all the time.

[joshtheguitard]

Ariadne: How could I ever acquire enough detail to make them think that it's reality?

Cobb: Well, dreams, they feel real while we're in them right? Its only when we wake up then we realize that something was actually strange.

"So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober."

I could point the finger back at you.

[Maxxie]

"So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober."

I could point the finger back at you.

Well, seeing as how my quote refers to dreaming, I don't see how yours does.... anything at all?

[joshtheguitard]

Well, seeing as how my quote refers to dreaming, I don't see how yours does.... anything at all?

It is actually a quote from the Bible that refers to unbelievers as being asleep and having a skewed vision of things. So in that way, it is like your reference to me having an unrealistic view of reality, but points the finger at the opposing person. There will always be arguments and disagreement both ways.

[Maxxie]

It is actually a quote from the Bible that refers to unbelievers as being asleep and having a skewed vision of things. So in that way, it is like your reference to me having an unrealistic view of reality, but points the finger at the opposing person. There will always be arguments and disagreement both ways.

And only one argument actually has merit.

[joshtheguitard]

And only one argument actually has merit.

Mine? :D

I do not see any tangibility in any of the militant attacks or skepticism I've received while here or anywhere else for that matter. You can believe what you want, but no one's going to tell me that what I believe isn't real through what I've experienced.

[kenoloor]

Mine? :D

I do not see any tangibility in any of the militant attacks or skepticism I've received while here or anywhere else for that matter. You can believe what you want, but no one's going to tell me that what I believe isn't real through what I've experienced.

Actually, lots of people will.

[Maxxie]

Actually, lots of people will.

Like me. :)

[embers]

Like me. :)

Hey, dickslapping people with militant atheism isn't all a good thing, you know.

[Maxxie]

Hey, dickslapping people with militant atheism isn't all a good thing, you know.

I'm hardly militant, mate. I'm not threatening you, I'm not calling you names or personally insulting you, hell, I'm hardly even making any kind of sustainable argument. All I'm doing is complaining on a message board about something I can't complain about most anywhere else.

I don't believe, yeah, I think everybody gets that. This quoting thing got weird, and I'm not entirely sure we see each other's points, yeah, that's fairly self evident. But, you can and will be told that your beliefs are invalid, especially on a largely non-believing subforum such as this, and until you can bring some solid empirical or logical evidence to the table, people can and will continue disbelieving. Of that, there is no doubt.

EDIT: Shit. I thought this was the other guy. My bad!

SECOND EDIT: I mean no I'll intention towards anyone unless stated otherwise.

THIRD EDIT: I'm kind of a dick.

[Efflorescence]

It all boils down to one thing, ok?

Atheists don't believe in God because he can't be proved. Then they might say if you believe in God, why don't you believe in Santa and in unicorns?

Well, no mate. There's a little difference. You see, if unicorns did exist we would be able to prove them. Because they have substance, they are not higher than us and they are not abstract.
So if we don't have proof of them, we dismiss their existence.

God is a little bit different. He's abstract and higher than us. How can the instruments of a human being measure something higher than them? He's not a fuckin earthquake or a fuckin animal. He's above us for Christ's sake. The guy is supposed to be everywhere and HE's also omni-fuckin-potent.

So how, I ask again, HOW can you have proof of a being like that? Tell me how and if one can measure GOD??
If we would be able to measure God, then we would also be able to control Him, and then he would lose His purpose and meaning because he would be on the same level as us which HE's not and he can never be.

Note: (And you can neg rep my ass cause now, I'm fuckin mad and I don't care what happens)

Edit: Not mad at atheists, just mad man.

[kenoloor]

It all boils down to one thing, ok?

Atheists don't believe in God because he can't be proved. Then they might say if you believe in God, why don't you believe in Santa and in unicorns?

Well, no mate. There's a little difference. You see, if unicorns did exist we would be able to prove them. Because they have substance, they are not higher than us and they are not abstract.
So if we don't have proof of them, we dismiss their existence.

God is a little bit different. He's abstract and higher than us. How can the instruments of a human being measure something higher than them? He's not a fuckin earthquake or a fuckin animal. He's above us for Christ's sake. The guy is supposed to be everywhere and HE's also omni-fuckin-potent.

So how, I ask again, HOW can you have proof of a being like that? Tell me how and if one can measure GOD??
If we would be able to measure God, then we would also be able to control Him, and then he would lose His purpose and meaning because he would be on the same level as us which HE's not and he can never be.

Note: (And you can neg rep my ass cause now, I'm fuckin mad and I don't care what happens)

Edit: Not mad at atheists, just mad man.

"Rational arguments don't usually work on religious people. Otherwise, there wouldn't be religious people." - House

[Genghis Khan]

It all boils down to one thing, ok?

Atheists don't believe in God because he can't be proved. Then they might say if you believe in God, why don't you believe in Santa and in unicorns?

Well, no mate. There's a little difference. You see, if unicorns did exist we would be able to prove them. Because they have substance, they are not higher than us and they are not abstract.
So if we don't have proof of them, we dismiss their existence.

God is a little bit different. He's abstract and higher than us. How can the instruments of a human being measure something higher than them? He's not a fuckin earthquake or a fuckin animal. He's above us for Christ's sake. The guy is supposed to be everywhere and HE's also omni-fuckin-potent.

So how, I ask again, HOW can you have proof of a being like that? Tell me how and if one can measure GOD??
If we would be able to measure God, then we would also be able to control Him, and then he would lose His purpose and meaning because he would be on the same level as us which HE's not and he can never be.

Note: (And you can neg rep my ass cause now, I'm fuckin mad and I don't care what happens)

Edit: Not mad at atheists, just mad man.

If there's no way to prove a concept or give a logical explanation for its existence then why bother arguing for it? It's almost like you're saying, you cannot prove God exists, hence he exists. And about your last point, he doesn't have to be 'measured', all you have to do is

1. Explain what he is and provide evidence.
2. Explain how he got here and provide evidence.

That's metaphysics and epistemology, so far so good.

3. Explain why monotheistic religions are incorrect, alongside you might want to explain why the Abrahamic religions are not in congruence with each other and which one is essentially correct.

Edit: This is also assuming that unicorns and fairies aren't higher than us, which for all we know probably are.

"Rational arguments don't usually work on religious people. Otherwise, there wouldn't be religious people." - House

A witty saying won't even prove my asshole to my motherfucking elbow.

[kenoloor]

A witty saying won't even prove my asshole to my motherfucking elbow.

It was a case in point.

[Efflorescence]

If there's no way to prove a concept or give a logical explanation for its existence then why bother arguing for it? It's almost like you're saying, you cannot prove God exists, hence he exists. And about your last point, he doesn't have to be 'measured', all you have to do is

1. Explain what he is and provide evidence.
2. Explain how he got here and provide evidence.

That's metaphysics and epistemology, so far ,so good.

How can I, you or anyone give you that? If we're talking about something which one can define and has a definite shape then I would be able to give you evidence.

But since God is a higher being and he doesn't have substance, then how does one go about that? In order to give evidence of something, you need an instrument, you need to conduct an experiment. At least in science.

Now I want someone to come up with an experiment or an instrument that could prove the existence of something abstract, higher than us, indefinite, omnipotent etc, etc.

And have you ever heard of Aristotle's view on God? There's your metaphysics if you want.

3. Explain why monotheistic religions are incorrect, alongside you might want to explain why the Abrahamic religions are not in congruence with each other and which one is essentially correct.

They may not be in congruence with each other but they all have something in common: they believe in HIGHER BEING/BEINGS. They vary when it comes to the properties they give to God, but not when it comes to the existence of God.

It doesn't mean that because different religions have different perspectives on God, then that means HE doesn't exist. Human beings have different opinions. You cannot dismiss something just because people disagree on it.

Edit: This is also assuming that unicorns and fairies aren't higher than us, which for all we know probably are.

If unicorns were higher than us then they would be either spirits or God. And fairies and unicorns are not indefinite like 'the man in the sky'.

A witty saying won't even prove my asshole to my motherfucking elbow.

Yeah.

[BFG9001]

Religion is like the lottery.

[Genghis Khan]

How can I, you or anyone give you that? If we're talking about something which one can define and has a definite shape then I would be able to give you evidence.

Again, why believe something you can't even define. You're in essence, arguing for something that you don't have a basic idea of.

But since God is a higher being and he doesn't have substance, then how does one go about that? In order to give evidence of something, you need an instrument, you need to conduct an experiment. At least in science.

What does he have that can be tested? Because if he can't be, why even bother?

And have you ever heard of Aristotle's view on God? There's your metaphysics if you want.

So you are prepared to define him, your definition is that of an ancient philosopher. That's a start. I just looked up the Aristotelian view, it needs some serious clarification. The only thing I remember pertaining to this argument that was close to Greek philosophy was that 'God is the nature of existence'. Which is dandy, but that's still just a definition on its own.

Referring back to Aristotle, his idea of God was the idea of an 'unmoved mover'. This is again assuming that the universe ever needed a 'mover' in the first place, you'd have to justify how this mover never needed its own 'mover' to 'move' it into being. If you get my drift. Basically this just gets us back to the drawing board with the whole 'who created God' extravaganza.

If you referred to his principles of being then that argument was principally 'God is all actuality'. Which is not an argument, it's a modulation of an already existing definition of the word 'actuality'. It's invalid.

They may not be in congruence with each other but they all have something in common: they believe in HIGHER BEING/BEINGS. They vary when it comes to the properties they give to God, but not when it comes to the existence of God.

Fair enough, I would accept that it is a possibility (given that God exists) every religion may well be a different interpretation of a higher being.

It doesn't mean that because different religions have different perspectives on God, then that means HE doesn't exist. Human beings have different opinions. You cannot dismiss something just because people disagree on it.

You can make case for it though, if every religion praises a different deity, how do we know which deity is the real thing? Point is, you don't. Your philosophy is he's something unimaginable and abstract despite all the current religious philosophies. That's all well and dandy, but it's yet another claim.

If unicorns were higher than us then they would be either spirits or God.

Why?

Religion is like the lottery.

Religion is like my stomach, it excretes digestive juices.

[antondrexler22]

Praise to the Father of our Lord, Jesus Christ
Our God and our King, to Him we will sing
In His great mercy, He has given us life
Now we can be called the children of God

Children of God, sing your song and rejoice
For the love that He has given us all
Children of God, by the blood of His Son
We have been redeemed and we can be called
Children of God


A mystery is revealed to the universe
The Father above has proven His love
Now we are free from the judgment that we deserve
And so we are called the children of God

[embers]

Praise to the Father of our Lord, Jesus Christ
Our God and our King, to Him we will sing
In His great mercy, He has given us life
Now we can be called the children of God

Children of God, sing your song and rejoice
For the love that He has given us all
Children of God, by the blood of His Son
We have been redeemed and we can be called
Children of God


A mystery is revealed to the universe
The Father above has proven His love
Now we are free from the judgment that we deserve
And so we are called the children of God

Rs9oDvYHihc

[Mutibann]

Does the ancient alien theory count as some sort of religion?

[Maxxie]

Praise to the Father of our Lord, Jesus Christ
Our God and our King, to Him we will sing
In His great mercy, He has given us life
Now we can be called the children of God

Children of God, sing your song and rejoice
For the love that He has given us all
Children of God, by the blood of His Son
We have been redeemed and we can be called
Children of God


A mystery is revealed to the universe
The Father above has proven His love
Now we are free from the judgment that we deserve
And so we are called the children of God

May the troll be with you. And also with you. Raise up your hearts...

[LaxFB3]

I'm catholic

[Core]

I'm a catholic

[Magus]

Does the ancient alien theory count as some sort of religion?It's a subsect of NewAge


All Hail Ashtar
http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=1487&pictureid=16430

[Celeste]

Relgious people says that if people sins they goes to hell.

Then zhey says that they has proof god exist......but they lying so they sin...... 8th commandment...... so they going to hell after dying.

[ManyPearTree]

In Christianity God forgives your sins by going to confession.
Only if you are Catholic.

[Celeste]

In Christianity God forgives your sins by going to confession.

Buts if Gods hear you,y do you has to goes confessions?

[Bougainvillea]

Buts if Gods hear you,y do you has to goes confessions?
Because someone wrote it in a book.

[Desuetude]

Edit

[shatter..]

Well, I am Wiccan but I do respect other religions and I believe that in some way or another we will all find our spiritual peace.

Though I am interested in Hinduism and fascinated by it.

[BFG9001]

haha love how christianity is always the majority religion, it annoys me. Yay to the 2 other hindu's!!!!

In America. For example, Islam is the majority in the middle east. Also, an apostrophe was not needed in 'hindus'. Apostrophes imply ownership.

[Jupiter]

Te actual cleansing and forgiving of sins is very important, and therefore must be done with a Priest.

This is potentially bias. If the god is so forgiving, why can't people talk to him personally?

Anyway, yeah I'm christian. But, I don't have a priest... so I guess my sins aren't forgiven.

[Human]

atheist 100%

[ben...]

I grew up Christian. My mom Catholic, dad Jewish. I slowly got away from "god" and I am now a Atheist. Atheism gets a bad rap. Most people think of "satanic" but if I don't believe in god, then I don't believe in the devil haha. :P. I simply live my life to the fullest every day.

[User Deleted]

ALL HAIL PRINCESS CELESTIA!

I know it says I voted Christianity.

But that was a long time ago.

Atheist now.

[christianteen]

I just think Athiests and other faiths should just stop being annoying and stay out of other peoples business.

[kenoloor]

I just think Athiests and other faiths should just stop being annoying and stay out of other peoples business.

If atheism is a faith, then barefoot is a shoestyle. What exactly do you mean by "other faiths." Non-Christian faiths? Because Christians have a shitty reputation of keeping their mouths shut as well. Browsing around ROTW will illustrate that quite beautifully.

[Celeste]

Because someone wrote it in a book.

Even Snow White is writen in book andz Cindirela

[Gaybaby94]

I just think Athiests and other faiths should just stop being annoying and stay out of other peoples business.

I think Christians should stop being high nosed and all that, trying to convert everyone to their religion of ignorance, intolerance, homophobia, bigotry, and racism. And if you can not handle that kind of truth, then oh well.

Anyway, I am an atheist and have been al my life. I have never believed in God or Jesus, or Santa or the Eater Bunny or the Tooth Fairy or any supernatural beings like ghosts, vampires, zombies, etc. I believe science, logic, and reason has a high place in the world but people are not willingly to accept it yet, but with the rise of atheism, it seems the world is starting to head in a better direction.

[Genghis Khan]

I think Christians should stop being high nosed and all that, trying to convert everyone to their religion of ignorance, intolerance, homophobia, bigotry, and racism. And if you can not handle that kind of truth, then oh well.

Anyway, I am an atheist and have been al my life. I have never believed in God or Jesus, or Santa or the Eater Bunny or the Tooth Fairy or any supernatural beings like ghosts, vampires, zombies, etc. I believe science, logic, and reason has a high place in the world but people are not willingly to accept it yet, but with the rise of atheism, it seems the world is starting to head in a better direction.

I think you are the anti-thesis of what a liberal should behave like in society.

[Jupiter]

I just think Athiests and other faiths should just stop being annoying and stay out of other peoples business.

I'm gonna let you in on a little secret. 1. yeah, people are gonna try to convert. Christians are the most known for this. As your username, and past posts, it seems you are very... uppity. So, just coexist with everyone else, and maybe things will work. ALSO Athiesm is not a religion. Athiesm is the absence of a religion.

[Amnesiac]

I just think Athiests and other faiths should just stop being annoying and stay out of other peoples business.

Gee, that would work if we didn't constantly face the threat of discrimination and social conservatism pushed relentlessly by the powerful right-wing factions of Christianity.

[huginnmuninn]

I just think Athiests and other faiths should just stop being annoying and stay out of other peoples business.

because christians never get in other peoples business?

Spanish inquisition
The "Holy" crusades
People going door to door spreading "the good news"
Westboro Baptist Church
I really dont feel the need to add the numerous persecutions that the christians have instigated over the years

[Gaybaby94]

Gee, that would work if we didn't constantly face the threat of discrimination and social conservatism pushed relentlessly by the powerful right-wing factions of Christianity.

This is my point here.To the person who called me a bigot, does this post make this user a bigot? no, we are speaking the truth that the religious right has been trying to cnvert people and shove their beliefs down the throats of minorities and discriminate for all time.

[embers]

This is my point here.To the person who called me a bigot, does this post make this user a bigot? no, we are speaking the truth that the religious right has been trying to cnvert people and shove their beliefs down the throats of minorities and discriminate for all time.

You're bigoted because you make the typical high-nosed anti-theist statement that religion is something to be absolutely shunned. In fact you're probably no better in terms of attitudes to different positions of faith in society than the bigots you're shunning.

[kenoloor]

You're bigoted because you make the typical high-nosed anti-theist statement that religion is something to be absolutely shunned. In fact you're probably no better in terms of attitudes to different positions of faith in society than the bigots you're shunning.

http://assets03.blog.usabilla.com/wp-content/uploads/paradox.jpg

[Efflorescence]

image (http://assets03.blog.usabilla.com/wp-content/uploads/paradox.jpg)

Uhhh.....what?

Gee, that would work if we didn't constantly face the threat of discrimination and social conservatism pushed relentlessly by the powerful right-wing factions of Christianity.

It also depends on where you live. There are some states or countries in which you find a lot of people who use religion for oppression and unfortunately it's the 'bad guys' that stand out.
However, one needs to see a bit the positive side of things as well.

[shatter..]

Listen, it's NOT all of the people of a certain Religion/Faith that's shoving it down people's throats, it's certian people that happen to be from that Religion. People of Muslim, Judaism, Hinduism, Christianity and Atheism all do it. It has NOTHING to do with the Religion at all.

By you saying that "Christians need to stop x" it's making generalizations and makes you look like a bigot. It's just as bad.

Like I said before: You can't have a double standard and expect one-way respect.

See my previous post:

Thank you!

In fact, there are many people from all sorts of religions that are very peaceful and respect people regardless of their beliefs. Thank you very much for posting this.

[Jupiter]

I'm a Christian, and although people make fun of me everyday for not doing the "cool thing.." I don't even fucking care. Because you know what, IT'S MY FUCKING LIFE. Leave my religion out of topics when bashing me, because this is one of the only things my opinion doesn't switch around on. So, please. If you feel like bashing on me, take it on my views on other things.

Just let me live my life, and you can life yours. Kapeesh? (: Thanks.

[Gaybaby94]

I'm sorry but I'm tired of religion persecuting minorities ( blacks, gays, non believers, etc) since the beginning of time. After thousands of years of religious intolerance, I refuse to give any respect. That is my view.

And if you want to argue you are arguing with a gay non believer who has been bullied by the religious.

[StoppingTime]

I'm sorry but I'm tired of religion persecuting minorities ( blacks, gays, non believers, etc) since the beginning of time. After thousands of years of religious intolerance, I refuse to give any respect. That is my view.

And if you want to argue you are arguing with a gay non believer who has been bullied by the religious.

Not all religious people are like this, so to stereotyping is just as bad as what some of them are doing.

[Jupiter]

I'm sorry but I'm tired of religion persecuting minorities ( blacks, gays, non believers, etc) since the beginning of time. After thousands of years of religious intolerance, I refuse to give any respect. That is my view.

And if you want to argue you are arguing with a gay non believer who has been bullied by the religious.
my whole family supports gays, choice, non-religious people, blacks, etc. i don't really know what you are talking about "religion."

whether people believe in a religion or not, we know what is moral in our minds.

[BuryYourFlame]

I'm sorry but I'm tired of religion persecuting minorities ( blacks, gays, non believers, etc) since the beginning of time. After thousands of years of religious intolerance, I refuse to give any respect. That is my view.

And if you want to argue you are arguing with a gay non believer who has been bullied by the religious.

Not all religious people are like this, so to stereotyping is just as bad as what some of them are doing.

my whole family supports gays, choice, non-religious people, blacks, etc. i don't really know what you are talking about "religion."

whether people believe in a religion or not, we know what is moral in our minds.

You need to stop saying that all Religious people force their Religions onto others and are homophobes/racists.

If I said that "I'm so sick and tired of Atheists shoving their beliefs down my throat!" You'd be attacking me... but it's fine the other way around?

Just pointing out, those two sentences were separate...

He did not say 'I'm tired of all you darn religious people persecuting minorities', he said he was tired of religion as a whole persecuting minorities, which if you actually read the texts of the judeo-abrahamic religions you will see is true whether you agree with it or not. I very much believe the statement about lack of respect was toward the religion rather than the person. That being said though, wouldn't you find it hard respecting someone who should, according to their holy text, hate everything you are for no reason other than their god says so?

In the next sentence he went on to say he had been bullied by religious people. There is nothing there stereotyping religious people, only observation of scripture and history.


Listen, it's NOT all of the people of a certain Religion/Faith that's shoving it down people's throats, it's certian people that happen to be from that Religion. People of Muslim, Judaism, Hinduism, Christianity and Atheism all do it. It has NOTHING to do with the Religion at all.

By you saying that "Christians need to stop x" it's making generalizations and makes you look like a bigot. It's just as bad.

Like I said before: You can't have a double standard and expect one-way respect.

You assume that atheists push to spread atheism. While this would be a good thing for most atheists, it is generally accepted that religion will next to never die out completely. Instead, the atheist movement pushes the spread of equality.

Do you see the difference here? Atheists 'preach' equality in lifestyle and for the separation of church and state while christians (as stated in the bible) should be trying to convert the entire population to a singular lifestyle. Atheists don't say that you can't be christian (they may say it is illogical etc. but the majority of atheists would still not support making religion illegal), but christians do say you can't be atheist.

As for 'christians need to stop x', if it is in your text (thus why they are doing and technically all christians should) and it is morally abhorrent then I am damn well going to say you should stop.

[Efflorescence]

That being said though, wouldn't you find it hard respecting someone who should, according to their holy text, hate everything you are for no reason other than their god says so?


The scripture never says that you should hate atheists. Never.

And just as it is hard to respect someone that "hates you because their god says so" (as you have put it), it is just as hard to respect someone who calls you delusional, retarded, stupid and oh-fuck-religious-people who believe in God. It is just as hard to respect some people who hold you accountable for actions that you have not committed and who point at you because they hear of priests that have abused people, as if it is your fault.

You assume that atheists push to spread atheism. While this would be a good thing for most atheists, it is generally accepted that religion will next to never die out completely. Instead, the atheist movement pushes the spread of equality.

Your reasoning is flawed. By your reasoning, religious people shouldn't be intolerant as they know they would never be outnumbered and that religion will always prevail. But in spite of this, some are still intolerant.
Just as atheists know that religion will next to never die out completely, but some of them still push the spread of anti-theism.

Do you see the difference here? Atheists 'preach' equality in lifestyle and for the separation of church and state while christians (as stated in the bible) should be trying to convert the entire population to a singular lifestyle. Atheists don't say that you can't be christian (they may say it is illogical etc. but the majority of atheists would still not support making religion illegal), but christians do say you can't be atheist.

So all atheists are angels that preach 'equality' but all Christians are bad and oppressive. Unreasonable or what?

[deadpie]

The scripture never says that you should hate atheists. Never.

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. Psalm 14:1

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Romans 1:21

For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Peter 4:17-18

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. Thessalonians 4:14

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. Hebrews 3:12

Then you have to think about how God pretty much killed people of different religions and of Christianity too. Of course God hates atheists.

And just as it is hard to respect someone that "hates you because their god says so" (as you have put it), it is just as hard to respect someone who calls you delusional, retarded, stupid and oh-fuck-religious-people who believe in God

Saying that is what I call retarded. Yes, religious people are delusional, but my theory which is not a backed up one an sucks, is that all people believe in things that are complete and utter bullshit. We all have lied to ourselves on several occasions. That's why I don't like I used to bash Christians as stupid and retarded, unless they say something overly overly dumb.

I'm delusional too, even though I'm an atheist. I'm probably just as crazy as you guys, but I'm aware of it all. Now religious people could suck a lie even if God told them to eat a feces sandwich (which he does).

No, I won't respect you for your religious beliefs and I won't respect your beliefs. Why? Because those are the same beliefs that have caused absolute madness, war, and personal things in my life.

BUT I can respect you as a person; your personality and traits, just like I can for everyone else.

This is a debate thread where people WILL pull out the proof they have. The only people who will do so is (1) Atheists (2) Overly skeptical Christians we've seen before. No other proof I've seen on this thread has been posted.



who point at you because they hear of priests that have abused people, as if it is your fault.

Lol I never see that happening to Catholics. The Priests get pointed at, not the people. What are you talking about? It's not the typical church-goers who are fucking the children (Maybe at home), it's some of the Priests.

Just as atheists know

Pet peeve of mine is when one person speaks for every person. You're speaking for all atheists there.

that religion will next to never die out completely

There's some whom believe it and I don't. My opinion is I could see a gigantic majority in a long time becoming atheists, of course there would still be believers, no matter how small the numbers. Some Atheists believe that people are really smart and CAN realize bullshit and eventually will or haven't been convinced yet.

So all

All = everyone, don't use that word!

atheists are angels that preach 'equality' but all Christians are bad and oppressive. Unreasonable or what?

Every fucking human being is bad and oppressive. They're also good and open minded. I do believe every human being has the ability to become a president, movie star, big ass musician, then of course a serial rapist, mass murderer, corrupt politician. Something tells me with the certain type and force of motivation, emotions can be caused to put someone in a certain direction towards where they choose to go; whether the Christian seeing the Truth about the Bible and becoming an atheist, a scared gay atheist fourteen year old converting back because he doesn't want to burn for eternity, a wife finds out her husband cheats on him and she (as good as person she might of been) snaps and kills, et al. Every human that's not mentally challenged when born is born the same and can have the same opportunities and emotions, even if they're past is as smelly as the shit dried sun may be.

[TheMatrix]

I'm sorry but I'm tired of religion persecuting minorities ( blacks, gays, non believers, etc) since the beginning of time. After thousands of years of religious intolerance, I refuse to give any respect. That is my view.
...then you're no better than the images of Christians you are creating.

[Efflorescence]

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. Psalm 14:1

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Romans 1:21

For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Peter 4:17-18

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. Thessalonians 4:14

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. Hebrews 3:12

Then you have to think about how God pretty much killed people of different religions and of Christianity too. Of course God hates atheists.


And what about the New Testament? We not only have to 'not hate' our enemies but also 'love' them. Our religion revolves around the teachings of Christ that does not seem to think that God hates atheists and that his followers should hate them.

Plus that atheists are not my enemies. They've done me no wrong and even if they had, not all atheists are the same.

Saying that is what I call retarded. Yes, religious people are delusional, but my theory which is not a backed up one an sucks, is that all people believe in things that are complete and utter bullshit. We all have lied to ourselves on several occasions. That's why I don't like I used to bash Christians as stupid and retarded, unless they say something overly overly dumb.

I'm delusional too, even though I'm an atheist. I'm probably just as crazy as you guys, but I'm aware of it all. Now religious people could suck a lie even if God told them to eat a feces sandwich (which he does).


Calling my post retarded is one thing (like you have done now:)), but calling me retarded (without it being a joke) is another thing.
'Delusional' doesn't annoy me much but someone telling me to go back to the mental hospital I've escaped from, just because I'm a theist, is a bit annoying.

Now, if all atheists had your theory, that would have been a different story, But some of them don't see it that way and so, they bash.

No, I won't respect you for your religious beliefs and I won't respect your beliefs. Why? Because those are the same beliefs that have caused absolute madness, war, and personal things in my life.

And this is the 'pet peeve of mine'. Why? Because the people who have caused all this shit, have used religion to fuel their obsessions.

You are assuming that my beliefs are the same as theirs. Perhaps we Catholics all write 'Catholic' on our fb page etc., but behind that word, there are millions of different ways of looking at religion, millions of different ways of practising it, millions of different ways of treating those who do not agree with us.

Everyone makes mistakes. Have you ever heard of atheist communist regimes who have killed and massacred millions of believers? Now, do I come to you and tell you that I don't respect your beliefs because of all the shit these regimes have caused? No, because that's nonsense.

You're an atheist like them but what do these have to do with you? From what I gather, you're not like them. Maybe you look at atheism in a different way. The same reasoning applies to religion and religious people.

Lol I never see that happening to Catholics. The Priests get pointed at, not the people. What are you talking about? It's not the typical church-goers who are fucking the children (Maybe at home), it's some of the Priests.


And even that is not fair. Whilst I condemn the actions of these priests who should never have been priests in the first place, I do not point my finger at priests as if all of them are paedophiles that fuck children. It's too extreme. And sometimes, yes, Catholicism and the Catholic community as a whole are attacked.

Pet peeve of mine is when one person speaks for every person. You're speaking for all atheists there.


Ok sorry. Some atheists.

There's some whom believe it and I don't. My opinion is I could see a gigantic majority in a long time becoming atheists, of course there would still be believers, no matter how small the numbers. Some Atheists believe that people are really smart and CAN realize bullshit and eventually will or haven't been convinced yet.

And some religious people think that:

people are really smart and CAN realize bullshit and eventually will or haven't been convinced yet.
Many atheists think that one day religious people will realize that religion is false and become atheists.
And similarly, many religious people think that one day, atheists will realize that religion is important and good and they will become theists.
Don't you notice the similarities despite the many differences in the way they think?


All = everyone, don't use that word!


I was being sarcastic there......

Every fucking human being is bad and oppressive. They're also good and open minded. I do believe every human being has the ability to become a president, movie star, big ass musician, then of course a serial rapist, mass murderer, corrupt politician. Something tells me with the certain type and force of motivation, emotions can be caused to put someone in a certain direction towards where they choose to go; whether the Christian seeing the Truth about the Bible and becoming an atheist, a scared gay atheist fourteen year old converting back because he doesn't want to burn for eternity, a wife finds out her husband cheats on him and she (as good as person she might of been) snaps and kills, et al. Every human that's not mentally challenged when born is born the same and can have the same opportunities and emotions, even if they're past is as smelly as the shit dried sun may be.

I agree with most of this, except for the highlighted parts.

No, not all human beings who are not mentally challenged are born the same. There are people who have a genetic predisposition for certain personality and phyical traits and not for others, there are people who are born to rich parents and an ideal family and others not etc. Those born in oppressive societies are not in the same situation as those in more free countries.

And not everyone can have the same opportunities. It depends on one's characteristics, luck, upbringing, even past, and unfortunately, on what your parents have done before you. So while we can all do our best, there are some things that we can never be. I've experienced this myself.

[deadpie]

And what about the New Testament? We not only have to 'not hate' our enemies but also 'love' them. Our religion revolves around the teachings of Christ that does not seem to think that God hates atheists and that his followers should hate them.

Your just blurting out opinions. God hates everyone. God loves everyone. The Bible is full of contradictions. That's what happens when you write a long book and forget other things you've written before.

Plus that atheists are not my enemies. They've done me no wrong and even if they had, not all atheists are the same.

Ok, that doesn't matter at all. What does matter is the fact that your religion is against anyone who isn't Christian. That's intolerance and intolerance is immoral.

Calling my post retarded is one thing (like you have done now:)), but calling me retarded (without it being a joke) is another thing.
'Delusional' doesn't annoy me much but someone telling me to go back to the mental hospital I've escaped from, just because I'm a theist, is a bit annoying.

Where in my post did I say, "Go back to the mental hospital because you believe in God"? I don't recall ever saying that until now. Now you do what so many people love to do here on VT when debating; play victim card and act like the person debating them is raping them with a machete taped to their dick.

Now, if all atheists had your theory, that would have been a different story, But some of them don't see it that way and so, they bash.

There's atheists with different theories - doesn't mean they're going to bash you and others. There's tons and tons of different mindsets of people. You can't just separate me and every other atheist.

You also have to take in context of Christian atheists (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheist) and such like that.

Everyone makes mistakes. Have you ever heard of atheist communist regimes who have killed and massacred millions of believers? Now, do I come to you and tell you that I don't respect your beliefs because of all the shit these regimes have caused? No, because that's nonsense.

Oh you! That's such a fucking stupid garbage fucking debate. I hate when people do that one. "OH BUT STALIN AND HITLER WERE ATHEISTS THAT MEANS YOU'RE ALL KILLERS LOLZLZLLZOZL CHRISTIANS 1 ATHEISTS 0"

The majority of people in prison are Christian. Does that mean ALL Christians are "marijuana heathens" (AAHHHHH!!!!) and like to rape for fun? NO.

You're an atheist like them but what do these have to do with you? From what I gather, you're not like them. Maybe you look at atheism in a different way. The same reasoning applies to religion and religious people.

You know what's stupid? The fact you say that religious people look at their denominations and own beliefs differently and in probably in more abstract ways, but why can't they do that for other religions or atheism?

And even that is not fair. Whilst I condemn the actions of these priests who should never have been priests in the first place, I do not point my finger at priests as if all of them are paedophiles that fuck children. It's too extreme. And sometimes, yes, Catholicism and the Catholic community as a whole are attacked.

Then you also have to think of the possibility that a Community should be meant to be punished as a whole. That's the thing about the Christian denominations; they're not a fucking community. Catholics deserve to mourn, feel pain together for what Priests have done and such. Along with the good things too; baptisms, communions, all your boring rituals.

Many atheists think that one day religious people will realize that religion is false and become atheists. And similarly, many religious people think that one day, atheists will realize that religion is important and good and they will become theists.

Lemme explain something. I understand the importance of religion; doesn't mean I need to join it. There's enough believers. Now why do some Atheists think this idea? Because atheism is on the rise dramatically. Because economy is getting worse, which means life is getting shittier and when life becomes shit people begin to do either with religion (1) Question their beliefs (2) Blame themselves. Also include science and proof, along with how human health is progressing. That's us finding cures and answers, not God.

No, not all human beings who are not mentally challenged are born the same. There are people who have a genetic predisposition for certain personality and phyical traits and not for others, there are people who are born to rich parents and an ideal family and others not etc. Those born in oppressive societies are not in the same situation as those in more free countries.

Whether you have a shit life, shit childhood, shit place you live in, amazing life, amazing childhood, amazing place you live in, I think everyone can have the same opportunities. Now, I'm not talking about places where finding food and water is a problem. Also, genetics is funny too. Blind or deaf, missing a leg or arm, you have leukemia or testicular cancer; there's still some way for someone to reach happiness and/or do things other people can do.

And not everyone can have the same opportunities. It depends on one's characteristics, luck, upbringing, even past, and unfortunately, on what your parents have done before you. So while we can all do our best, there are some things that we can never be. I've experienced this myself.

You know what? Many people have lived horrible lives and accomplished their dreams. Go read "A Piece Of Cake" by Cupcake Brown. Good example in my opinion.

[Efflorescence]

Ok, that doesn't matter at all. What does matter is the fact that your religion is against anyone who isn't Christian. That's intolerance and intolerance is immoral.

Priests in my country themselves tell you to respect people of other beliefs. What's so hard to understand about that? Is it a new concept to you? Why do you need to generalize and make flat black-and-white statements that are just nonsense?

Where in my post did I say, "Go back to the mental hospital because you believe in God"? I don't recall ever saying that until now. Now you do what so many people love to do here on VT when debating; play victim card and act like the person debating them is raping them with a machete taped to their dick.

Where the hell did I say that you said that? Someone else said that to me lol. And you mentioned that my beliefs have caused personal issues in your life. I answered back by mentioning what someone told me in the past. I'm not trying to look like a victim, I'm stating facts like you had done earlier.

And bro I told you I was a bit annoyed when he said that, not that I didn't sleep that night because of what he said.

I don't recall ever saying that until now.

Maybe I should go to the hospital. And I'll take a bunch of other people with me as well.:P:P

There's atheists with different theories - doesn't mean they're going to bash you and others. There's tons and tons of different mindsets of people. You can't just separate me and every other atheist.

The same applies to Christians. Not everyone is intolerant, they have different mindsets. Why can you accept this when it come to atheists, but not when it comes to religious people? You're talking as if we're a different species.

Oh you! That's such a fucking stupid garbage fucking debate. I hate when people do that one. "OH BUT STALIN AND HITLER WERE ATHEISTS THAT MEANS YOU'RE ALL KILLERS LOLZLZLLZOZL CHRISTIANS 1 ATHEISTS 0".

The trying-to-imitate-you-but-failing-desperately crap. What the hell, lol?

I mentioned that, because you told me about those Christians causing wars etc. I was just comparing 'like' with 'like'. You mentioned that first. Have you forgotten?:

No, I won't respect you for your religious beliefs and I won't respect your beliefs. Because those are the same beliefs that have caused absolute madness, war, and personal things in my life.

I was just merely pointing out that all communities commit mistakes. If Christians have caused war and murder, so have other communities. It doesn't make it right on every side, on all sides. Now we can just fill a whole thread pointing at each other and accusing each other. But it'll be useless.

The majority of people in prison are Christian. Does that mean ALL Christians are "marijuana heathens" (AAHHHHH!!!!) and like to rape for fun? NO.

Exactly.

Some people who cause oppression and are intolerant are Christians. Does that mean all Christians are oppressive? No. It's the same argument.

And it makes sense that most of the people in prison are Christians since the majority of people in the world are Christians. In order for statistics to be valid we deal with percentages. The % of Christians who are in prison out of the whole Christian population.

You know what's stupid? The fact you say that religious people look at their denominations and own beliefs differently and in probably in more abstract ways, but why can't they do that for other religions or atheism?.

Who said they don't do that for other religions and atheism? You may think that, because in your mind, you may have the image of a stereotypical Christian that is always wanting to convert people, always worrying about hell and infidels etc, etc.

Well, I hope that it doesn't come as a shock to you, but some of us actually don't care if you worship the sun as long as you're not doing harm to others. Deal with it man. I of course think that Christianity is the best because hell, that's why I chose it to be my religion. Isn't it obvious and natural that you think your beliefs to be the best?

Then you also have to think of the possibility that a Community should be meant to be punished as a whole. That's the thing about the Christian denominations; they're not a fucking community. Catholics deserve to mourn, feel pain together for what Priests have done and such. Along with the good things too; baptisms, communions, all your boring rituals.

What are you even saying? What irrational and stupid mojo... Be held accountable for actions I have not committed? Punish them not some random Christian who has not done anything. And then one wonders why poeple turn hostile towards one another.....it all starts from an attitude that is so unreasonable.

Lemme explain something. I understand the importance of religion; doesn't mean I need to join it. There's enough believers. Now why do some Atheists think this idea? Because atheism is on the rise dramatically. Because economy is getting worse, which means life is getting shittier and when life becomes shit people begin to do either with religion (1) Question their beliefs (2) Blame themselves. Also include science and proof, along with how human health is progressing. That's us finding cures and answers, not God.

Maybe I do that already. Maybe I question my beliefs. Maybe I blame myself and maybe I happen to love science as well. But I still believe in God. And like me, there are many others. What's the big deal?

I understand the importance of religion

I fail at seeing this in your attitude here.

Whether you have a shit life, shit childhood, shit place you live in, amazing life, amazing childhood, amazing place you live in, I think everyone can have the same opportunities. Now, I'm not talking about places where finding food and water is a problem. .

You have already eliminated about 1.3 billion of the population of the world.
And previously you have also eliminated people with mental challenges.

You know what? Many people have lived horrible lives and accomplished their dreams. Go read "A Piece Of Cake" by Cupcake Brown. Good example in my opinion.

I will read it if I find it. And I have also watched movies based on true stories of people who have managed to make it. However, there are others who have not been able to accomplish their dreams because of their difficulties.

There stories are maybe not heard and talked about because it lowers poor people's self-esteem. People (including you) may hate me for saying this. It's ok. I think I'm being quite realistic.

[deadpie]

Priests in my country themselves tell you to respect people of other beliefs. What's so hard to understand about that? Is it a new concept to you? Why do you need to generalize and make flat black-and-white statements that are just nonsense?

I know what I see. Where I live, the places, I've been, the people I've talked to, that's what I know of. I'm not making black and white statements. You almost sound like your making useless pointless arguments for the sake of boredom.

And you generalize all Priests in your country to respect people of "all beliefs". Well, you're black and white too then. Fucking a, still going nowhere.

The same applies to Christians. Not everyone is intolerant, they have different mindsets. Why can you accept this when it come to atheists, but not when it comes to religious people? You're talking as if we're a different species.

Well, speaking of delusions, I don't believe I'm human. I'm also kind of confused by you're question.

The reason I think more religious people are intolerant compared to atheists is quite obvious. Do I really need to answer? The Bible teaches lots of intolerance. Many people use that so called knowledge from the Bible for judgement on people. Most of us atheists have been "spat" on by the religious for what we are, which pushed us towards atheism. Be it stupid lies, our gender, orientation, color, opinions, et al.

The Bible is very intolerant.

I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Revelation 2:9

I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. Jude 1:5

For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. John 2:15

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. John 2:22

And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. John 5:19

This is the one that typically bothers Jewish people:
For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. Titus 1:10-11

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:10-11

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Ephesians 5:6

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. Corinthians 2:15

Could keep going.

The trying-to-imitate-you-but-failing-desperately crap. What the hell, lol?

I mentioned that, because you told me about those Christians causing wars etc. I was just comparing 'like' with 'like'. You mentioned that first. Have you forgotten?

Well, I said of religions, not just Christians. That's something you mistaken. I was saying it's something that is a fault of religion; not something that only happens with Christians and these certain Christians are good examples bla bla.

And it makes sense that most of the people in prison are Christians since the majority of people in the world are Christians. In order for statistics to be valid we deal with percentages. The % of Christians who are in prison out of the whole Christian population.

I was trying to bring a half to the debate that [x] belief causes crime. Both reasoning, the one I brought up on Prison members and the one you brought up for Communist leaders, are useless. I wanted to give an example and explain both arguments are useless and should be buried in a hole.

Who said they don't do that for other religions and atheism?

If they did they wouldn't fight and many denominations would die out of popularity while more accepting ones would stay.

You may think that, because in your mind, you may have the image of a stereotypical Christian

Stereotypical Christian? I look at the Christian that's painted out in The Bible; the one your God wants you to be. That's who I'm trying to make examples of.

that is always wanting to convert people, always worrying about hell and infidels etc, etc.

That would be multiple stereotypes though. The ones that worry about hell are typically younger and not as conservative. The ones trying to convert have had it in their head from childhood typically or were overly convinced; they have no fear of Hell because they KNOW they're going to Heaven. They fear for others going to Hell though or they want others to go to Hell in some occasions.

don't care if you worship the sun as long as you're not doing harm to others.

Worshiping the sun would probably raise the chances of skin cancer.

Deal with it man. I of course think that Christianity is the best because hell, that's why I chose it to be my religion. Isn't it obvious and natural that you think your beliefs to be the best?

Of course. Doesn't mean you're right. I believe I'm right because I've been of different religions, denominations, had spiritual and very nihilistic moments together. I've faced truth and sucked in lies. I've lived with people of different religions too. I believe what I believe right now for the sole purpose that I've had tons of experience with different things and have tried different things out. I find that quite rational of an explanation.

What are you even saying? What irrational and stupid mojo... Be held accountable for actions I have not committed? Punish them not some random Christian

Heh, you miss my point and that's also a hypocritical thing for you to say, considering the story of Adam and Eve and Sin. The Jewish people considered themselves a community for example; when one person suffers they all suffer, when one person mourns they all mourn, et al. It's more of a 'family'.

Maybe I do that already. Maybe I question my beliefs. Maybe I blame myself and maybe I happen to love science as well. But I still believe in God. And like me, there are many others. What's the big deal?

I don't see why you're in this thread debating. You have a personal connection towards your religion, you say you don't want to convert anybody, then why debate here? Personal belief means personal. You're not using any proof or evidence, using any important or useful religious debates.

I fail at seeing this in your attitude here.

All because I believe something is important doesn't mean it's good. Could be bad. Then it could be good too.

You have already eliminated about 1.3 billion of the population of the world.
And previously you have also eliminated people with mental challenges.

I think you're missing my point. I'm trying to say people here in the US, UK, Canada, some of Japan, some parts of South America. As garbage as their lives might be there, they still have a chance to accomplish their goals.

Of course you have the nihilism of life where that 1.3 billion, well, tons more, along with mentally challenged and such, it's just almost impossible to live a good life. Life is fucking shit anyhow.

I've heard of people in the biggest hell holes of the World, somehow, some-fucking-how figuring a way out and living a good life. Met a person at my Community College who grew up in the fucking Congo for fucks sake.

There stories are maybe not heard and talked about because it lowers poor people's self-esteem. People (including you) may hate me for saying this. It's ok. I think I'm being quite realistic.

I know that the majority of people who are depressed in live in a shit hole typically don't go anywhere. I'm there right now. What keeps me going is knowing the possibility. When I look at those documentaries of people living in a life/death situation on an hourly basis, I think about how if they can survive, I can definitely survive.

So I still go by my philosophy things can work out for most people even in the worst of situations.

[Gaybaby94]

Holy crap, the debate between Whiny and Deadpie is freakin epic!

[dark_soul777]

I guess I would say a mix of atheism/agnosticism/other/none, for the reason I have never found a religion that satisfies my scientific curiosity with the world.
I do however find religion very interesting, and I am not closed to adopting it if I was to find one that fulfilled my previously stated criteria.

[Efflorescence]

I know what I see. Where I live, the places, I've been, the people I've talked to, that's what I know of. I'm not making black and white statements. You almost sound like your making useless pointless arguments for the sake of boredom.

Well ,that's the problem, isn't it? You know what you see and that's it. Perhaps religious people in America are a bit more extreme than here in Europe. You may, and I hope, that you get the opportunity to see other things as well but on the good side.

For example, I had a very traumatic experience in the past. The Christian Community in here has helped me a lot in dealing with it.

And you generalize all Priests in your country to respect people of "all beliefs". Well, you're black and white too then. Fucking a, still going nowhere.

Priests in general in my country. Like everything in life, there are rotten carrots, however.

Well, speaking of delusions, I don't believe I'm human.

Ok.:P:P

The Bible is very intolerant.

First of all, I have already pointed out how you always leave the New Testament out on purpose.

And second of all:

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things

So the Bible even teaches that it is God that judges not us. So how come you tell me that the Bible tells Christians to judge against other people because of their beliefs?

We Christians are supposed to believe in God not that we are God. If we play God we would be going against one of the fundamental beliefs of Christians: we would be taking the place of God. Let Him judge when it comes to this. That's what we're supposed to think.

Third of all:

Most of us atheists have been "spat" on by the religious for what we are, which pushed us towards atheism.

I do hope that this is not what pushed you towards atheism. One can deny all forms of organized religion and religious people, but still be a theist - still believe in a deity.

Well, I said of religions, not just Christians. That's something you mistaken. I was saying it's something that is a fault of religion; not something that only happens with Christians and these certain Christians are good examples bla bla.

Again with 'the fault' of religion crap. It's the fault of people who distorted religion not 'religion' per se.

If they did they wouldn't fight and many denominations would die out of popularity while more accepting ones would stay

What is this? Many people survive by being aggressive and then you come and tell me they would die out? Of course they don't! Not only do they survive but they stand out more than the accepting ones..... they get in the media, they get talked about etc etc. Some of them thrive on 'notoriety' or whatever you call it in English.

Take the example of this hate group, Westboro Baptist Church. How many members have they got? 50? 40? But those 40 may stand out more than the other denominations because of their extreme actions.

Of course. Doesn't mean you're right. I believe I'm right because I've been of different religions, denominations, had spiritual and very nihilistic moments together. I've faced truth and sucked in lies. I've lived with people of different religions too. I believe what I believe right now for the sole purpose that I've had tons of experience with different things and have tried different things out. I find that quite rational of an explanation.

Everyone believes he's right, obviously. I have also thought about different religions but no, I admit I did not have these experiences like you, seeing that about 80% of Malta (it's my country) is Catholic. I try to find out from Internet and all.

Heh, you miss my point and that's also a hypocritical thing for you to say, considering the story of Adam and Eve and Sin. The Jewish people considered themselves a community for example; when one person suffers they all suffer, when one person mourns they all mourn, et al. It's more of a 'family'.

First of all, there is a difference between mourning and being punished. The former is called empathy and I agree with it. Plus that even Christians have funerals to mourn together like a 'family'.

Second of all, the story of Adam and Eve serves to show that people somwtimes choose evil over good and look what happens. Whether the story really happened or not is debatable. And unimportant because not the story is what's really fundamental, only its religious message.

The Bible is a religious book. It may be erranous when it comes to geography, science and history. Because those do not form part of its purpose or its message.
You have also got to take in the context of culture and era in which the Old Testament was written. Faith alone is not good, it must be coupled up with reason to see what is applicable and what is not, and what is 'culture' and what is not.

I don't see why you're in this thread debating. You have a personal connection towards your religion, you say you don't want to convert anybody, then why debate here? Personal belief means personal. You're not using any proof or evidence, using any important or useful religious debates.

Because the claim that Christianity = intolerance is absurd! And even that the Bible orders Christians to be intolerant is absurd!

That's why I'm debating, because it's false and it can never be justified.

And about the 'proof' part, I have a crazy belief which I don't think is so crazy that something as big as God is meant not to be proved by lower beings such as humans.

All because I believe something is important doesn't mean it's good. Could be bad. Then it could be good too.

You seemed to think it's all bad because it's 'what God wants us to be.' You gave me that impression.

Of course you have the nihilism of life where that 1.3 billion, well, tons more, along with mentally challenged and such, it's just almost impossible to live a good life. Life is fucking shit anyhow.

I've heard of people in the biggest hell holes of the World, somehow, some-fucking-how figuring a way out and living a good life. Met a person at my Community College who grew up in the fucking Congo for fucks sake.

I know that the majority of people who are depressed in live in a shit hole typically don't go anywhere. I'm there right now. What keeps me going is knowing the possibility. When I look at those documentaries of people living in a life/death situation on an hourly basis, I think about how if they can survive, I can definitely survive.

So I still go by my philosophy things can work out for most people even in the worst of situations.

You seem to fluctuate between thinking that life is shit and that there's still some hope.I do that as well at times. Well we're 17 so we can do shit and do our best to make it work out.

My opinion: Documentaries are the shit, nihilism is shit. Just saying.

[deadpie]

For example, I had a very traumatic experience in the past. The Christian Community in here has helped me a lot in dealing with it.

I've gone through trauma too and it was the opposite for me. In fact, I've had people tell me I'll roast in hell for eternity for things I couldn't stop.

Priests in general in my country. Like everything in life, there are rotten carrots, however.

What country do you live in?

First of all, I have already pointed out how you always leave the New Testament out on purpose.

LOLOLOL !!!!! IMPLYING THOSE WEREN'T ALL FROM THE NEW TESTAMENT? I did that on purpose because I KNEW YOU WOULD SAY THAT! HA.

You're funny. That was a good one!


So the Bible even teaches that it is God that judges not us.

Bullshit.

In righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour. Leviticus 19:15

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. John 7:24

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 1 Corinthians 2:15

For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. 1 Corinthians 5:12-13

Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?. 1 Corinthians 6:2-3

The bible is full of contradictions. How do you people keep forgetting so?

We Christians are supposed to believe in God not that we are God. If we play God we would be going against one of the fundamental beliefs of Christians: we would be taking the place of God. Let Him judge when it comes to this. That's what we're supposed to think.

Proven wrong above this quote.

I do hope that this is not what pushed you towards atheism. One can deny all forms of organized religion and religious people, but still be a theist - still believe in a deity.

Yeah, because I want to live in shame my entire life while being religious. That would be AWESOME! Because I would be so happy to know I'm getting it all good in the afterlife and fuck everyone else. THAT'S SWEET!

And that is a rational reason why people can move towards atheism. Especially here in America.

Again with 'the fault' of religion crap. It's the fault of people who distorted religion not 'religion' per se.

That's kind of like saying, "Sure, people can buy and read 'Home Workshop Explosives Second Addition', oh, but i guess it's your fault if you actually kill people with that information! Ha. Good one. God tells you kill people for him many times. I think as it is a Book and it cannot breathe, it does have fault to it. The Bible is made to persuade. How can you not say that it can distort people into going batshit crazy?

What is this? Many people survive by being aggressive and then you come and tell me they would die out? Of course they don't! Not only do they survive but they stand out more than the accepting ones..... they get in the media, they get talked about etc etc. Some of them thrive on 'notoriety' or whatever you call it in English.

What in the living fuck are you talking about? Did you even read what I said? I'm trying to say more conservative-like/stricter denominations would die out of popularity while more open minded ones would strive.

You're also a fool (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fool_(Tarot_card)) when you say that the aggressive will not die out. The more aggressive typically the less believers. Media makes big stories on it because it makes a good story. I thought you were the one trying to say that not every Christian is a douchebag converting-killing machine?

Take the example of this hate group, Westboro Baptist Church. How many members have they got? 50? 40? But those 40 may stand out more than the other denominations because of their extreme actions.

BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULL FUCKING SHIT! You are pissing on your own religion right there! There's fifty of them, millions upon millions of you. All because they have large attention doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean majority agrees with them. It doesn't mean they set an example.

They mean nothing! Nobody takes them seriously. Like I said, they make a good story that will pay well so it's reported.

First of all, there is a difference between mourning and being punished. The former is called empathy and I agree with it. Plus that even Christians have funerals to mourn together like a 'family'.

You obviously don't know the different meanings and definitions of punishment and shame.

Second of all, the story of Adam and Eve serves to show that people somwtimes choose evil over good and look what happens. Whether the story really happened or not is debatable. And unimportant because not the story is what's really fundamental, only its religious message.

Story on Adam and Eve really is a stupid story to begin with. Everything about it is ridiculous, inane, unfair, and there's no special religious message in it.

The Bible is a religious book. It may be erranous when it comes to geography, science and history. Because those do not form part of its purpose or its message.

But the inaccuracy of the Bible makes it false. That's why I'm not a Christian.

Because the claim that Christianity = intolerance is absurd! And even that the Bible orders Christians to be intolerant is absurd!

And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. Corinthians 8:2

That's stupid. I pointed out many times in this thread how the Christian God tells you what to hate while not saying why, only commanding. The Bible is very absurd. If you want me to make a massively long post proving why I'll do so. Let me get some coffee first.


And about the 'proof' part, I have a crazy belief which I don't think is so crazy that something as big as God is meant not to be proved by lower beings such as humans.

Well it's a good thing I'm not a human then.

You seemed to think it's all bad because it's 'what God wants us to be.' You gave me that impression.

I think I see more of the bad in religion then the good because the places I've been and the people I've talked to were effected in negative ways. I do see a good though. One of my best friends is religious and without it he said he'd probably kill himself. I do see good importance in the spirituality aspect, but religion tends to only help when it's personal.

My opinion: Documentaries are the shit, nihilism is shit. Just saying.

Don't call an entire philosophy shit without researching it.

[xDarkness999x]

I'm baptized Greek orthodox but i chose not to believe in God so now I'm an atheist
and to be honest i never believed in god

[Professional Russian]

Holy crap, the debate between Whiny and Deadpie is freakin epic!

I think they got a love affair going

[shatter..]

I think they got a love affair going

Haha; nice. :P

[DerBear]

Wicca

[Alexis goes Rawr]

Im atheist agnostic
I personally dont believe in any of that or any higher power at all (atheist) but im also not ignorant enough to absolutely believe no one else could be right (agnostic)
In my opinion theres no proff there is a god but theres also no proff there isnt a god (agnostic again)

Holy crap, the debate between Whiny and Deadpie is freakin epic!

^ lol i know right i attempted to read it all but got bored >.>

Please don't double post -- use the Multi-quote or Edit button if you have something to add. And also, please stay on-topic. ~TheMatrix

[Moxie]

The idea of a deity holding power over me from above amuses me. I am an atheist because I am logical.

[Stacey.]

I'm an Atheist.

[Bougainvillea]

Because someone wrote it in a book.

"Someone wrote it in a book". You've missed the plot buddy. Missed the whole big picture. <-- neg rep I just got

Nope I'm pretty sure I actually just summed it up.

[shatter..]

Just because something was written in a book does not mean it is correct. I could write down the sentence "fire is not hot" but does that make it right? No.

[Craig1995]

Used to be Christian till about a year ago, then I realised how close minded it was making me and realised it's just another bs story filled with nice story's and metaphors that people mistake to be the love of god. Now I consider my self as open to lots of different views but I want to learn about Wicca :)

[ThUnDeR]

Wow, I have come a long way. Look at my post from '09 I think http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?p=560205#post560205 As you can see, I was an idiot. My grammar was horrible, and I was very closed minded. Now, I am an atheist, I've come to the conclusion that religion just isn't plausible. Science and reason debunks religion on too many subjects to believe in it. And Also, I am a big fan of the constitution, so the fact that so many people these days try and force their religion onto others really pisses me off. I believe that everyone should have an open mind, and the kids should not be forced into a religion, as I and about 99% of people these days are. I have yet to read the bible completely, but from what I have read, it contradicts itself too much for me to believe in it. And finally, I just don't want to be associated as a christian because there are so many people who slave over the bible, Even though they cherry pick the verses they like. I know faith and religion makes you feel good inside, but it is just not plausible, for me at least. Also, What makes one religion right over another? There are hundreds, if not thousands of religions around this world, why is Christianity right but Scientology is wrong? The think that really made me not believe is that The bible and Christians preach over how peaceful and how nice God is. The fact that so many innocent people die from cancer and accidents every day is not a very nice thing for god to do. Why does he kill so many innocent people? Why does he allow these wars to continue? If God is real, I don't want to follow him, because in my book he is a killer.

[Magus]

@Thunder.

At least you can avoid writing a wall of text. Use paragraph breaks. It's not that hard really.

And yes, you were not that bright back then, as I can see from the old posts. It's a good thing you started questioning your believes and started accepting scientific view points.

[Dark_cloud98]

I was born to believe in god but how can there be a god in my opinion all religion is just a story to make people who are not very smart feel safe, all you who believe in a god do you believe in Santa and the Easter bunny also because there all just made up charters in different books.

[ltimm]

Wow. Looking back almost two years, I can see that my religious views have changed dramatically.

I no longer hate religious people. I've met some really nice Christians since then, and it's made all the difference. I hate the religions, but I don't go out of my way to bash them anymore. I took free will for granted; people can be who they want. Nobody should try to dissuade them from that.

I've gone to church only three times in two years, but now I want to go to church. I'm agnostic now; however, I have a paucity of believe that there is a higher being of some kind.

I've looked at pagan and Christian denominations. For pagan, it was mostly Norse. For Christian, I'm currently expressing that I want to attend the local open UCC.

Anyhow, I'm no longer an "extreme atheist."

[Sugarrush]

I reckon religions a waste of time. Where has religion gotten us? Wars, hate and the polar opposite of what religion is meant to be about. We could cut out religion and get rid of this mess. But upon saying this, I'm perfectly fine having religious friends, as long as their religions arent shoved down my throght.

[Rage of the Menace]

Maronite Catholic.

Phantom. No. Just no. Aethiesm is a ideology that doesn't have a stable aim, except:

Disprove every established faith on this planet.

Hence, making them very narrow minded.

[kenoloor]

Aethiesm is a ideology that doesn't have a stable aim, except:

Disprove every established faith on this planet.

Hence, making them very narrow minded.

That's not atheism's goal at all. Unlike Christians, or nearly any other organized religion, we do not have any holy books or scriptures telling us how to live our lives. Atheism is a lack of a belief system, not a goal to destroy every faith in the world, and if that's really what you think atheism is, you're sorely misinformed. Atheists very often argue against religion, because atheists don't believe in religion, in which case they are arguing their opinion just as you're arguing yours.

I could say the very same thing about you. You obviously believe that your religion is the one true religion of all the thousand upon thousands of religions in the world. That makes you virtually no different from atheists, as both you and atheists believe that all other religions are false; the only difference is that you believe in one more religion than an atheist.

[Genghis Khan]

Maronite Catholic.

Phantom. No. Just no. Aethiesm is a ideology that doesn't have a stable aim, except:

Disprove every established faith on this planet.

Hence, making them very narrow minded.

Aethiesm is not an ideology. Your argument is invalid.

[deadpie]

Phantom. No. Just no. Aethiesm is a ideology that doesn't have a stable aim, except: Disprove every established faith on this planet. Hence, making them very narrow minded.

1) Atheism isn't some fucking movement and it's not aimed at one goal, nor any goal in the first place.

2) The only difference between me and you is I disprove one more religion than you do. We're not that different.

3) If someone is willing to attempt to disprove every branch of religion and the branches of those branches, then that's the opposite of narrow minded. In order to disprove you have to learn, research, and read about the religion, then rip it to shreds.

[Breakeven]

i got my own believes

[Caver]

I'm a christian, I am christened. But sounds stupid as I don't know what christian group I belong in!

[Rage of the Menace]

Sorry, but the belief in nothing can be classified as a way of thinking, or an idea.

Also, what is aethiests goals then? What is an aethiests concern in the modern world? I've met too much aethiests, and all they do is CONDEMN agnostics, christians, muslims, hindus and buddhist.

Where i'm from, they're narrow-minded and ignorant, and your actions further proves my point.

[Thanatos]

Sorry, but the belief in nothing can be classified as a way of thinking, or an idea.

Also, what is aethiests goals then? What is an aethiests concern in the modern world? I've met too much aethiests, and all they do is CONDEMN agnostics, christians, muslims, hindus and buddhist.

Where i'm from, they're narrow-minded and ignorant, and your actions further proves my point.

Deadpie is right, Atheism isnt some movement or organization dedicated to achieving a goal. It is a belief that people hold over the existence of a higher being.

[deadpie]

Sorry, but the belief in nothing can be classified as a way of thinking, or an idea.

Also, what is aethiests goals then? What is an aethiests concern in the modern world? I've met too much aethiests, and all they do is CONDEMN agnostics, christians, muslims, hindus and buddhist.

Where i'm from, they're narrow-minded and ignorant, and your actions further proves my point.

1) You didn't really read my post well.

2) Don't debate something you can't spell. It's atheist, not aethiest.

3) Anyone who claims all of one thing is one particular thing and nothing else is closed minded. All because there's a group of Muslim extremists doesn't mean all Muslims are terrorists. All because there's Christians bombing Planned Parenthood's doesn't mean all Christians will kill people who commit abortion. Not all atheists are going to stab you with a pitchfork for having different beliefs, well, that's unless you try to force your views on them. If you do so, prepare yourself.

4) All because I don't believe in a higher power doesn't mean I believe in 'nothing'. I believe in what's in front of me and what is factual evidence. That's not illogical in any way.

5) You're stereotypical and that makes you wrong.

6) Zippity-Zoppity-Dibbidy-doo

[Genghis Khan]

Sorry, but the belief in nothing can be classified as a way of thinking, or an idea.

Way of thinking/idea =/= Dogma/Ideology

Also, what is aethiests goals then?

My goal is to become a linguist. Maybe educate myself further in history, politics and psychology. I have a range of goals man. So does each individual atheist, I'm sure Tim has his dreams of doing something music-related. I don't see the point in this question.

What is an aethiests concern in the modern world?

Again, that depends solely on the individual. Some atheists are concerned about society, some are concerned for the environment, some are concerned for the economy, some are concerned with how many bitches they slam before they die.

Even though your questions are worded terribly I'll answer with this. Since atheism is not a set belief system, it's uncommon for atheists to just have similar interests because they are atheists. It's difficult to just base a connection on a lack of belief in something. As far as morality goes, I've said this before and I could not be more clear when I said that we get it from a rational consideration of the consequences of our actions. If I do good things, it's likely that in the long-run people will be nice to me too. Whereas if I'm the town dick who goes around shovelling shit in everyone's face I can only expect to have shit shovelled in my mouth every time I'm standing, yawing in the street.

I've met too much aethiests, and all they do is CONDEMN agnostics, christians, muslims, hindus and buddhist.

I've lived in Pakistan for 14 years of my entire life. I've had to tell everyone that I'm a Muslim just so I'm not shunned in any way. Even though I was (and I couldn't help being) more liberal in my ideals than everyone else, often what I would do, like wear a cross once in a while would get people to run up to me and ask me if I want to go to hell. To this point I still think that Muslims can be modernised and brought out of this piss Islamic society where everyone and anything that doesn't sound Islamic to somebody is wanked upon. I don't for a second believe that all Muslims behave a certain way, in fact, my best friend is a Muslim and you know what, sometimes I forget that she even is a Muslim. Or at least your quintessential Muslim that cares way too much about their religion, she is so rational it actually turns me on and makes me want to have sex with her at that very moment.

Where i'm from, they're narrow-minded and ignorant

This begs the question, where are you from?

and your actions further proves my point.

lol no they haven't

[Can'tHelpIt]

Atheist and proud
People insult other religions bc theirs is "better". This and I find no proof of Intelligent Design is why I'm atheist.

Sorry, but the belief in nothing can be classified as a way of thinking, or an idea.

Also, what is aethiests goals then? What is an aethiests concern in the modern world? I've met too much aethiests, and all they do is CONDEMN agnostics, christians, muslims, hindus and buddhist.

Where i'm from, they're narrow-minded and ignorant, and your actions further proves my point.

If anyones Ignorant and Narrow-Minded it's you religous people.

posts merged. do not double post, use the edit button instead. -embers

[Antagonist]

Someone add Paganism as an option :3

[shatter..]

They should also add Satanism. The list is still small.

[spawn1998]

C of E, but never go to church nor do i believe in religion. those who do can just hate it when people try to force their believes on me

[Bubbawhack]

Buddhist!!!!!!!!!!! #whatsgood

[Steddy95]

I believe relgion is for those who are afraid of the truth. If you can't see it now that we have evolved and that there is no creator or 'God', then I feel sorry for the impact that religion has had on you. I respect religious people but I do not under any circumstance respect religion in anyway whatsoever.
This is one of my favourtie quotes that pretty much sums of religion:
"Religion easily has the best bullshit story of all time. Think about it. Religion has convinced people that there’s an invisible man…living in the sky. Who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten specific things he doesn’t want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever, and suffer, and burn, and scream, until the end of time. But he loves you. He loves you. He loves you and he needs money."
George Carlin
Yes, we don't know how the universe itself all began, but scientists are working on it and making discoveries every day. I personally beleive that the logical choice is to see the facts and evidence rather than belief what several old guys in the desert have to say about the origins of the universe.

[lone socailist]

I'm Pagan. Norse. I don't see what's so great about the worlds leading religion, Christianity. It has litterally brought near to nothing, but war, death due to conspiracy, and has drasitically reduced or slowed down our scientific progress that didn't suit it for over a millenia! And also took gods from other religions and faiths and put them into Satan. christianity has destroyed our world and societies. At least Islam, the second leading religion of the world, help advance the worlds of science and philsophy in the past! And also, why do christians look at themselves as superior to jews? Christianity CAME from JUDAISM! It was or originally a religious movement in the jewish faith! the only reason it surfived was because of one the Roman Emporers. Christianity wouldn't exist if Emporer Nero had his way. what christians don't know is that the peace sign so many of them flash to people like me, is that the peace symbol is what Nero used. it's call Nero's Cross for a reason. it's also used as a symbol of death in Nordic culture. And the Nazi's used it on grave stones to show the time of death. Plus, it's a nuclear missile. so yeah. very peacful (sarcastic wink)

[Yehudis13]

I think that religions are against other religions, because they believe their god to be more superior than the other. I think it is a whole bunch of crap though. I think that everyone believs something different, and all of them are right. Each religion stands for something else, and I think that is a special thing, and religion was created to bring people together, not spread them further apart. Religion was created so everyone of the same belief would all be happy together, and other religions would not fight against them.

[AllThatYouDreamed]

I kind of wish "wicca" was "pagan". It's a more catch-all term (and I believe covers satanists)

Checked other.
I recognize the Gods rights to exists, and to an extent their power in the universe. An extent.
Not fond of the Christian/Jewish/Islamic God. Just. Yeah. There's a lot wrong with how he's handling the world (or not handling it, rather). But I'll acknowledge he exists [-]begrudgingly[/-].

I don't worship them, exactly. Give respect where respect is due, not pray to. Not expect them to do something for me for the hell of it.

I also believe in most mythological creatures. Angels, fairies, elves, dragons, ghosts ect.
No I don't have a logical reason behind this. Since when is faith logical again?

[shatter..]

I do not believe Paganism includes Satanism.