Religion

[StoppingTime]

then what does it mean? -_-

It is unknown what it means, but you can't say God is angry, and think of it as a human emotion.

[Maxxie]

Guys! He kills people out of anger.

He's not angry though. Just a little misunderstood.

"The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies! The LORD is slow to get angry, but his power is great, and he never lets the guilty go unpunished. He displays his power in the whirlwind and the storm. The billowing clouds are the dust beneath his feet. At his command the oceans and rivers dry up, the lush pastures of Bashan and Carmel fade, and the green forests of Lebanon wilt. In his presence the mountains quake, and the hills melt away; the earth trembles, and its people are destroyed. Who can stand before his fierce anger? Who can survive his burning fury? His rage blazes forth like fire, and the mountains crumble to dust in his presence. The LORD is good. When trouble comes, he is a strong refuge. And he knows everyone who trusts in him. But he sweeps away his enemies in an overwhelming flood. He pursues his foes into the darkness of night. (Nahum 1:2-8)"

[Amnesiac]

It is unknown what it means, but you can't say God is angry, and think of it as a human emotion.

Really, all I've seen in this thread recently from you is your ridiculous modification of the definition of what "God" is. People here have provided a multitude of questions about the concept of God and all of the obvious flaws with such a concept, and you answer all of them with things like "well, it's unknown" or "we don't know how God thinks," which is absolute bullshit.

The burden of proof rests on you. There is no physical evidence suggesting the existence of a God. Religion has made the claim that God exists for the past 2,000 years, has shown absolutely nothing to back up said claim, and then questions anyone who asserts that God doesn't exist with absolutely absurd questions about proving he doesn't. When you make a claim, you back it up. You don't ask other people to disprove it. It's like telling people "my dick is 10 inches long," then when they don't believe you, you tell them "well, prove that it isn't!"

I'm tired of religious people changing the definition of God to work around rational questions about his non-existence. Things like we can't understand the "mind of God," or that he works in "mysterious ways". That isn't proof of anything. This is a debate, goddamit.

[judahtics]

A perfect being can create whatever He wants, and why would it have to be perfect?
God didn't want to create us perfectly.

God did create perfect beings, who then committed sin which made them imperfect beings. this is if you believe the Bible anyway.

[embers]

When it says God was ''angry" it doesn't mean it the way we think of it.

How would you know? You only have the texts to go by.

[Angel Androgynous]

Wait... holddafuckup!

If us humans can't know how "great" God is or what he wants...

HOW is the Bible the truth when it was written by...

guess WHO?
Humans!

[embers]

Wait... holddafuckup!

If us humans can't know how "great" God is or what he wants...

HOW is the Bible the truth when it was written by...

guess WHO?
Humans!

The Bible in its most basic form is firmly believed to be a book of revelations by God to man. That's why. Nice try, though.

[StoppingTime]

Wait... holddafuckup!

If us humans can't know how "great" God is or what he wants...

HOW is the Bible the truth when it was written by...

guess WHO?
Humans!


How do you know that it was written by humans?


God did create perfect beings, who then committed sin which made them imperfect beings. this is if you believe the Bible anyway.

Yes, but God knew they would do this, therefore we, the people of today, are not.


Really, all I've seen in this thread recently from you is your ridiculous modification of the definition of what "God" is. People here have provided a multitude of questions about the concept of God and all of the obvious flaws with such a concept, and you answer all of them with things like "well, it's unknown" or "we don't know how God thinks," which is absolute bullshit.

The burden of proof rests on you. There is no physical evidence suggesting the existence of a God. Religion has made the claim that God exists for the past 2,000 years, has shown absolutely nothing to back up said claim, and then questions anyone who asserts that God doesn't exist with absolutely absurd questions about proving he doesn't. When you make a claim, you back it up. You don't ask other people to disprove it. It's like telling people "my dick is 10 inches long," then when they don't believe you, you tell them "well, prove that it isn't!"

I'm tired of religious people changing the definition of God to work around rational questions about his non-existence. Things like we can't understand the "mind of God," or that he works in "mysterious ways". That isn't proof of anything. This is a debate, goddamit.

I don't need proof that God exists in the way you think. You are correct, there is no proof in that way, and thats why its called a blind faith.


Guys! He kills people out of anger.

He's not angry though. Just a little misunderstood.

"The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies! The LORD is slow to get angry, but his power is great, and he never lets the guilty go unpunished. He displays his power in the whirlwind and the storm. The billowing clouds are the dust beneath his feet. At his command the oceans and rivers dry up, the lush pastures of Bashan and Carmel fade, and the green forests of Lebanon wilt. In his presence the mountains quake, and the hills melt away; the earth trembles, and its people are destroyed. Who can stand before his fierce anger? Who can survive his burning fury? His rage blazes forth like fire, and the mountains crumble to dust in his presence. The LORD is good. When trouble comes, he is a strong refuge. And he knows everyone who trusts in him. But he sweeps away his enemies in an overwhelming flood. He pursues his foes into the darkness of night. (Nahum 1:2-8)"

God does have anger that we understand here against his enemies in this quote. When I was talking before about how God's anger doesn't always appear the way we think. (I didn't write always then, but it is correct).

[Angel Androgynous]

The Bible in its most basic form is firmly believed to be a book of revelations by God to man. That's why. Nice try, though.

Yes, but it was interpreted. People claim that some of the bible (like stoning kids) is wrong. Meaning that they are saying that God was wrong...


How do you know that it was written by humans?

If it wasn't then why didn't God just implant it in our heads to memorize? Why didn't God translate it in all different languages? If he is so omnipotent and divine, why did he need humans to write all that down?

*sigh* (http://www.roflcorner.com/wp-content/gallery/facepalm/mCU8jmcCknhaneztKwDmYdCyo1_500.jpg)

[Amnesiac]

I don't need proof that God exists in the way you think. You are correct, there is no proof in that way, and thats why its called a blind faith.

This is probably one of the most intellectually bankrupt things I've ever heard in my life. No offense, but that's how I view "blind faith". There's no logic to it.

I don't have a problem with what you believe, but I don't really see the point in coming to a debate thread to engage in a one-sided conversation where you refuse to consider the arguments of your opponents. That's not really debating, at all.

[StoppingTime]

If it wasn't then why didn't God just implant it in our heads to memorize? Why didn't God translate it in all different languages? If he is so omnipotent and divine, why did he need humans to write all that down? [/QUOTE]

That isn't how he wanted it to be. It is translated in different languages, it is in Devarim (Book of Torah). How would we know if we didn't write it down?

[Genghis Khan]

How do you know that it was written by humans?

Because humans have existed for thousands of years, it was during the first few early civilizations that deities were formed to deter answering questions on the basis of factual observation and rational discourse. This is evident by texts, calligraphy, scripts, culture and the remains of the thousand year old civilizations. These were in fact, human civilizations.

Question is, where are you getting with that point. Who do you think wrote the Torah/Bible/Qur'an?

I don't need proof that God exists in the way you think. You are correct, there is no proof in that way, and thats why its called a blind faith.

That is precisely why only a select group of people believe in it.

You're a Jew because,

-You were born a Jew.
-You were raised a Jew.
-You were taught Abrahamic values
-You were not taught other religious values

Hence you believe your religion is correct, and... I have, possibly Lithium has too and several other Atheists on this thread that if you were born a Hindu, you'd be saying the same thing about Krishna and Shiva, if you were born a Zoroastrian you'd be saying the same thing about Zoroaster, if you were born a Sikh you'd be praising the Sikh warriors that overthrew Muslims in the subcontinent and view them as Prophets of God.

Plus, if it comes down to your blind faith, why the hell are you even debating about it? It pisses me off when people get down to that, because if you're believing it out of sheer faith, then there's no point bringing it up.

[embers]

From what I've seen of you, the only counter you have to paradoxes in God's nature is 'we don't know'. How (and essentially, why) the hell do you insist on loving something that you 1. don't know exists, and 2. don't know anything about?

Oh yeah, it's called blind faith. My bad. It's obviously all right if it's unquestionable blind faith.

[Bougainvillea]

If it wasn't then why didn't God just implant it in our heads to memorize? Why didn't God translate it in all different languages? If he is so omnipotent and divine, why did he need humans to write all that down?

That isn't how he wanted it to be. It is translated in different languages, it is in Devarim (Book of Torah). How would we know if we didn't write it down?[/QUOTE]

Then he is fucking stupid, and now he has millions, if not billions of people rebelling against his idea. Not only that, but it just seems funny that he was more than willing to manifest several times in ancient history, but never after the invention of photography. And when he does, its usually to make some lady cut off her baby's arms.

[Valkyrie]

Umm... Vain Intervening in MOTION !!! lol
Ok, so as I was saying if Right and Wrong dont exist then the whole theory of being judged by them is crap. Right and Wrong are basically a popular opinion, they were made by the human morality. Oh I got a quote up my sleeve :P, "Right and wrong" is a disconnected human invention to control behavior. Now that explains everthing dosent it?
Let me see what else i can write about... Oh I got one!
Did it ever cross your mind that god dumped us in this world cause he thought we were crap creations ? What if he actually never payed attention to this planet ?
Mabye the people who wrote the bible were crazy, did that ever cross ur mind???
Well i guess not, and now that human beings have finally probally became as smart as god, he's scared that we might finally end up better than him... Just saying.... there is so many theories against God...

[deadpie]

God did create perfect beings, who then committed sin which made them imperfect beings. this is if you believe the Bible anyway.

God this, God that, God didn't mean this, God means this, God approves of, God disproves of, God hates, God loves, God forgives, God is unforgiving, God kills, God brings joy, blah fucking blah. It's all just nonsense and when I hear it I imagine a pig rolling around in his pile of mud and shit.

Sure, you have your stupid religious texts to pull out quotes from to sort of prove your statement of what your God might think, but you've literally never seen or heard him, neither can anyone prove they did. Sure, you can have those dumb books where people state 'they went to heaven or hell', but the truth is it's all made for the $$$. Sorry, but blind faith makes good money and is so easy to convince people with.

You can say God said this and that or whatever but it literally means nothing in a debate unless you can give scientific proof that a God exists. That's why these past few pages have been utterly useless. In fact, most of the debates in this thread are useless and don't go anywhere. That's why we're at over 100 pages.

[Mewp]

I apologise if it's come up before, but Agnosticism is not a valid religious belief: it is an epistemological position of the availability of conclusive evidence regarding the existence of a deity/deities.

As such, one can be an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist - or simply a theist or an atheist. Theism is the explicit acceptance of the proposition "There exists a deity or deities." If one is unsure or undecided, then they are not a theist - that is, they are an atheist.

In light of this, you'll generally find that most people who refer to themselves as 'Agnostic' when questioned about their religious beliefs are in fact Agnostic Atheists.

[Iris]

I apologise if it's come up before, but Agnosticism is not a valid religious belief: it is an epistemological position of the availability of conclusive evidence regarding the existence of a deity/deities.

As such, one can be an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist - or simply a theist or an atheist. Theism is the explicit acceptance of the proposition "There exists a deity or deities." If one is unsure or undecided, then they are not a theist - that is, they are an atheist.

In light of this, you'll generally find that most people who refer to themselves as 'Agnostic' when questioned about their religious beliefs are in fact Agnostic Atheists.

Agnostic is simply a looser term. It encompasses those two forms of Agnosticism. It's like saying you're Christian but not explaining that you're specifically Catholic.

You can say the same thing about any belief, really-there's the general, basic term, and then there's the more specific term, which is a category of the general one.

[Mewp]

Certainly it does, but it isn't a satisfactory answer when questioned as to one's religious beliefs. As such, it would be more appropriate and less likely to skew poll results if it was included as a secondary poll, something like:

Religious Belief?
[blah]
[blah]
[blah]

Agnostic?
[Yes]
[No]

[huginnmuninn]

God did create perfect beings, who then committed sin which made them imperfect beings. this is if you believe the Bible anyway.

if god did create perfect beings then why did they do something unperfect like commiting a sin?

and for those of you who will scream The devil told them to do it: if they were perfect they still wouldnt have commited sin because their perfection would have told them not to doubt god because that would be an imperfect thought and they wouldnt have sinned because that would be an imperfect action

[Bougainvillea]

if god did create perfect beings then why did they do something unperfect like commiting a sin?

and for those of you who will scream The devil told them to do it: if they were perfect they still wouldnt have commited sin because their perfection would have told them not to doubt god because that would be an imperfect thought and they wouldnt have sinned because that would be an imperfect action

The general answers to that is God either fucked up, or he was kidding.

[Angel Androgynous]

The general answers to that is God either fucked up, or he was kidding.

Or he was trolling. I bet God is looking down at his earth like:

UMad, bro? :D

[Valkyrie]

I bet he is lol
Does anyone read my posts???? I left a very valid one and no one even answered. I guess im too epic :P

[troubled teen]

ya i was chritian but with how my lif has been goin everywere i feel lik there isnt a god but i also do disbalive that there is lik a limbo

[sammy1996]

I just think religons are too faith based, there is no proof of any of it happening.
i believe in scientific theorys with proof not a guy with a beard telling me to be a good girl so i dont go to hell...
even without my beliefs i think religons cause so much separation between the world and just cause hate between people for having "the wrong religon"
believe in what want, its your beliefs

[landone]

I'm christian - non-denominational.

[kuuliluuk]

christened atheist with buddhist philosophy.

[Valkyrie]

Hey anyone want to join Vainism??? Its a great religion, its based on this sentence " I dont give a shit about anything". Great eh? Also it takes in many different sientific theories which would be interesting to post but this sentence is a part of my religion too "I'm too lazy to give a shit" :P Someone post comments about this fast cause I'm getting bored....

[embers]

christened atheist with buddhist philosophy.

or you could call it 'picky-choosy'

[Genghis Khan]

or you could call it 'picky-choosy'

I call it interesting and sexy.

Christian with Buddhist morals *fap fap*

[embers]

I call it interesting and sexy.

Christian with Buddhist morals *fap fap*

aaaaaaahhhhhhhhh

alas, we digress.

[Bath]

I'm atheist. I don't believe there's a God, but I'm not saying there definitely isn't. I've just come to the conclusion that most likely there isn't, and I'm living my life to that accord. :)

[Apparitions]

I'm atheist. I don't believe there's a God, but I'm not saying there definitely isn't. I've just come to the conclusion that most likely there isn't, and I'm living my life to that accord. :)
So you're a weak atheist, then?

[kuuliluuk]

well being baptised as a baby which I even don't remember, doesn't make me to believe in christian god. I don't believe in any of them. there are just too many of them. Which one is real?
First I thought that buddhism is a religion similar to christianity, islam, judaism, only it isn't. Mostly it teaches you how your mind works. How to make your mind sharp, calm, unisturbed. Going to church and praying may have the same effect. Only I do not have to be submissive to any god. I don't have to go to church, I don't have to pray. I do not depend on any god. It is my mind I must work with. Not wear symbols.

[Bougainvillea]

So you're a weak atheist, then?

Agnostic atheism.

[Bath]

So you're a weak atheist, then?

Agnostic atheism.

There we go.

[Maxxie]

There we go.

They're basically the same thing.

[embers]

I fucking HATE shit like this. I should be finding this hilarious, instead I got frustrated.

ED_Vjw94iss

[Iris]

I fucking HATE shit like this. I should be finding this hilarious, instead I got frustrated.

ED_Vjw94iss

I'm proud to say that I'm not at the point where I'm so sick of these people that I get annoyed. I laughed. Yay me.

The thing I found the most interesting is this idea religious people hold, that if you believe in no religion you'd become a mindless animal, fixated only on murdering, stealing and generally doing harm to society. Does that mean that Christians and other religious people are all brutal psychopaths who would ravage society without their religion to keep them in check? How do they not realize how greatly they're insulting themselves whenever they employ this 'argument'?

[embers]

How do they not realize how greatly they're insulting themselves whenever they employ this 'argument'?

Forget how they're insulting themselves - they're insulting the vast majority of atheists that aren't nihilistic destroy-everything dicks.

[Iris]

Forget how they're insulting themselves - they're insulting the vast majority of atheists that aren't nihilistic destroy-everything dicks.

I see it differently. At the same time that they're insulting themselves, they're praising us. They admit that without religion they would do whatever they want, without a care about consequences, to themselves or others. That suggests that, at the core, atheists who are not doing these things are better people. We have no worry of divine retribution, yet we don't go around murdering and stealing anyway.

They're not only deeply insulting themselves, they're also greatly praising us.

[embers]

I see it differently. At the same time that they're insulting themselves, they're praising us. They admit that without religion they would do whatever they want, without a care about consequences, to themselves or others. That suggests that, at the core, atheists who are not doing these things are better people. We have no worry of divine retribution, yet we don't go around murdering and stealing anyway.

They're not only deeply insulting themselves, they're also greatly praising us.

Hmm, that's actually a pretty good loophole in the morality argument. Nice thinking.

[Bougainvillea]

They're basically the same thing.
I'd say a weak atheist, is someone who doesn't believe in God, but say they do out of pressure, and fear of unapproval of peers. Or just because they don't want to use the term atheist out loud.

[Korashk]

I'd say a weak atheist, is someone who doesn't believe in God, but say they do out of pressure, and fear of unapproval of peers. Or just because they don't want to use the term atheist out loud.
You'd be using the phrase in an unorthodox manner.

[LifeisLife]

I'm an atheist, technically I'm catholic but my family and I never go to church or pray or do anything with religion, only christmas. (sometimes) Some things in the Bible I do believe in, others not so much. I don't believe in the Adam and Eve story, that has been scientifically proven wrong. Science and evolution DOES exist. Anyways, other things like no sex before marriage I used to believe in, but I've changed my mind about that. What if you're married when you're like 50. A 50 year old virgin? That would suck.

[mrdtf]

i dont want to be insensitive or offend anyone by saying this but i think christianity is just stupid because why would god let such awful things happen to people my uncle had a 3 year old son die from cancer surely that cant be the work or any 'god' then when he got re married he tried to have a second child it died at birth come on thats to far isn't it but luckily now he has a 2-3 month old healthy baby and he doesn't have to suffer but god is a sham i'm sorry but thats my opinion

[Bath]

I heard something interesting today:

"Try disproving one religion while not disproving your own. You'll find that it's impossible."

[backtobackawesome]

i dont want to be insensitive or offend anyone by saying this but i think christianity is just stupid because why would god let such awful things happen to people my uncle had a 3 year old son die from cancer surely that cant be the work or any 'god' then when he got re married he tried to have a second child it died at birth come on thats to far isn't it but luckily now he has a 2-3 month old healthy baby and he doesn't have to suffer but god is a sham i'm sorry but thats my opinion

just because god didnt answer ur prayer doesnt make christianity stupid ok shut up about other peoples beliefs and learn to respect ok? how can you say theres' no god as well its a proven fact that there is a god if there was'nt a god who create the universe? seriosly it blows my mind...... christ comes down for our since and heres u people thinking you can just put him aside and use science to explain things..........truth is..... YOU CANT.

god is the only way and I AM PROUD TO SAY I AM A BELIEVER.

GOD IS TH ONE AND ONELY

[embers]

just because god didnt answer ur prayer doesnt make christianity stupid ok shut up about other peoples beliefs and learn to respect ok? how can you say theres' no god as well its a proven fact that there is a god if there was'nt a god who create the universe? seriosly it blows my mind...... christ comes down for our since and heres u people thinking you can just put him aside and use science to explain things..........truth is..... YOU CANT.

god is the only way and I AM PROUD TO SAY I AM A BELIEVER.

GOD IS TH ONE AND ONELY

yeah...no.

[Angel Androgynous]

just because god didnt answer ur prayer doesnt make christianity stupid ok shut up about other peoples beliefs and learn to respect ok? how can you say theres' no god as well its a proven fact that there is a god if there was'nt a god who create the universe? seriosly it blows my mind...... christ comes down for our since and heres u people thinking you can just put him aside and use science to explain things..........truth is..... YOU CANT.

god is the only way and I AM PROUD TO SAY I AM A BELIEVER.

GOD IS TH ONE AND ONELY

God should teach you how to spell...:rolleyes:
So wait... why should he respect your beliefs if you don't respect his and yell at him how God is the only way?
It's a proven fact that there is a God? You've got to be kidding me. I would like to see sources of that proven fact other than a 3000 year old novel written by some dude to explain things that he couldn't with science.
Christ comes down for our since? Lolwut.
Umm... we can't use science to explain things?
Yes we can. We can't use imaginary friends to explain things... that's for sure.
You don't know if there is a God.... you believe that there is a God. Learn the difference.
In other words....

yeah...no.

[embers]

God should teach you how to spell...:rolleyes:
So wait... why should he respect your beliefs if you don't respect his and yell at him how God is the only way?
It's a proven fact that there is a God? You've got to be kidding me. I would like to see sources of that proven fact other than a 3000 year old novel written by some dude to explain things that he couldn't with science.
Christ comes down for our since? Lolwut.
Umm... we can't use science to explain things?
Yes we can. We can't use imaginary friends to explain things... that's for sure.
You don't know if there is a God.... you believe that there is a God. Learn the difference.
In other words....

Leave it, serious troll at large.

[backtobackawesome]

God should teach you how to spell...:rolleyes:
So wait... why should he respect your beliefs if you don't respect his and yell at him how God is the only way?
It's a proven fact that there is a God? You've got to be kidding me. I would like to see sources of that proven fact other than a 3000 year old novel written by some dude to explain things that he couldn't with science.
Christ comes down for our since? Lolwut.
Umm... we can't use science to explain things?
Yes we can. We can't use imaginary friends to explain things... that's for sure.
You don't know if there is a God.... you believe that there is a God. Learn the difference.
In other words....

next time don't give me a neg rep for expressing what i feel is right. i believe in the lord jesus and that isnt going to change.... seriously if you think you and embers is being funny then piss right off because your both going to hell and you know it..... you ptobably deserve it too

[Genghis Khan]

This thread never fails to amuse me.

[Angel Androgynous]

next time don't give me a neg rep for expressing what i feel is right. i believe in the lord jesus and that isnt going to change.... seriously if you think you and embers is being funny then piss right off because your both going to hell and you know it..... you ptobably deserve it too
If heaven is full of bible thumping bigots, then I don't wanna go there anyway. :rolleyes:

This thread never fails to amuse me.

Oh yes. :D

[Vonn]

seriously if you think you and embers is being funny then piss right off because your both going to hell and you know it..... you ptobably deserve it too

Telling someone they're going to hell just because they don't agree with you? And then telling them they deserve it (even though you're talking out of your ass seeing as you don't know them)? Whatever happened to WWJD?

[embers]

next time don't give me a neg rep for expressing what i feel is right. i believe in the lord jesus and that isnt going to change.... seriously if you think you and embers is being funny then piss right off because your both going to hell and you know it..... you ptobably deserve it too

Alright then, I'll take you seriously! If you really want it that bad:

just because god didnt answer ur prayer doesnt make christianity stupid ok

It doesn't make Christianity stupid, but it does lessen Christianity's credibility as a whole. Christianity can't account for the thousands of unanswered prayers of people who are suffering, nor can it give a valid reason for why God would leave said prayers unanswered besides the standard 'hurrr god is mysterious'.

shut up about other peoples beliefs and learn to respect ok?

Yeah... you too.

how can you say theres' no god as well its a proven fact that there is a god if there was'nt a god who create the universe?

Nope, it isn't a proven fact... it's probably what they taught you at the church, though. Fact is, there is nothing in the world that has proven your God, or any other God's existence. All that we have are bullshit philosophical musings ('first cause theory') and people who quote from the Bible as if it's a completely 100% accurate and trustworthy article, which it isn't.

seriosly it blows my mind...... christ comes down for our since

Don't forget Muhammed, bro.

and heres u people thinking you can just put him aside and use science to explain things..........truth is..... YOU CANT.

You know that internet you're using to make that post? Yeah... science. You know how people landed on the moon? Yeah... science. You know how just about anything works? Yeah. Science.

Honestly, what irks me is that it's going to be people like you that oppose the teaching of evolution (or propose giving it equal weight to creationism) in schools. It's the sole reason science teachers are facing the fucking bullshit that they are now - because it 'offends' people. Well I'm sorry, you can't wave off a truth that offends you just as someone can't wave off the Holocaust.

[Genghis Khan]

next time don't give me a neg rep for expressing what i feel is right. i believe in the lord jesus and that isnt going to change.... seriously if you think you and embers is being funny then piss right off because your both going to hell and you know it..... you ptobably deserve it too

Woahahaho shit. I didn't see this until now. Dude, calm down. You probably didn't notice this before, but preaching on this thread is really looked down upon. If you want anyone on here to dignify your posts with a positive response, you've got to be a bit more rational than 'God did it' and, I don't know... use rational discourse if that's not too much to ask for? Sounds reasonable, no? :yes:

[backtobackawesome]

Telling someone they're going to hell just because they don't agree with you? And then telling them they deserve it (even though you're talking out of your ass seeing as you don't know them)? Whatever happened to WWJD?

im just warning people... and athiests on this page really think they can go around say what they want without considering other peoples feelings and showing some respect well fuck that! if they dont show respect i wont either!

deal with it

It doesn't make Christianity stupid, but it does lessen Christianity's credibility as a whole. Christianity can't account for the thousands of unanswered prayers of people who are suffering, nor can it give a valid reason for why God would leave said prayers unanswered besides the standered 'hurrr god is mysterious'.

questioning gods authority is useless because he is GOD do you think youd have the time to answer all the million of prayers coming straight at you in one shot? no right? obvs not this takes time........ look at it from gods prespective.


[QUOTE=embers;1427526]Nope, it isn't a proven fact... it's probably what they taught you at the church, though. Fact is, there is nothing in the world that has proven your God, or any other God's existence. All that we have are bullshit philosophical musings ('first cause theory') and people who quote from the Bible as if it's a completely 100% accurate and trustworthy article, which it isn't.

you have no right to call it bullshit take it back... if you just gave christ a chance i can bet in a second youll turn to him but by then it;kll be too late and you'll be guily in gods eyes

Don't forget Muhammed, bro.

muhammed was a false prophet... seriosly what kind of prophet has sex with little girls? at the age of what...... 60 YEARS LOL. wtf. jesus would never do that he's the symbol of ultimate peace

You know that internet you're using to make that post? Yeah... science. You know how people landed on the moon? Yeah... science. You know how just about anything works? Yeah. Science.

you know whats causing destruction in the world? nuclear weaporny. weres that coming from? science. thats what i thought, it causes nothing but havoc look at all these drone attacks in afhganistan its shameful.

[Jess]

just because god didnt answer ur prayer doesnt make christianity stupid ok shut up about other peoples beliefs and learn to respect ok? how can you say theres' no god as well its a proven fact that there is a god if there was'nt a god who create the universe? seriosly it blows my mind...... christ comes down for our since and heres u people thinking you can just put him aside and use science to explain things..........truth is..... YOU CANT.

god is the only way and I AM PROUD TO SAY I AM A BELIEVER.

GOD IS TH ONE AND ONELY

yes you can use science to explain things. it proved and proves more things than RELIGION

Who created God?

God approves of rape and murder and slavery. Read the Bible. God's "Word". He's sexist too

[Genghis Khan]

you know whats causing destruction in the world? nuclear weaporny.

nuclear weaporny

weaporny

PORNY

[Angel Androgynous]

questioning gods authority is useless because he is GOD do you think youd have the time to answer all the million of prayers coming straight at you in one shot? no right? obvs not this takes time........ look at it from gods prespective.

So you are pretty much saying that God isn't perfect and isn't omnipotent? Good job. :D

[embers]

im just warning people... and athiests on this page really think they can go around say what they want without considering other peoples feelings and showing some respect well fuck that! if they dont show respect i wont either!

This is coming from a person who told someone to shut up and deal with the fact that 'God' let a man's three year old son die of cancer, and the other one die at childbirth. Seriously, if there's any lack of respect here, it's coming from you.

questioning gods authority is useless because he is GOD do you think youd have the time to answer all the million of prayers coming straight at you in one shot? no right? obvs not this takes time........ look at it from gods prespective.

You don't know God's perspective, don't pretend to. You're just a human, as are we all. Besides, your God is perfect. He should have no difficulty in answering prayers.

you have no right to call it bullshit take it back... if you just gave christ a chance i can bet in a second youll turn to him but by then it;kll be too late and you'll be guily in gods eyes

I have every right to say whatever the hell I want. If you don't like it, don't pay attention to it. What makes you think I haven't given God a chance? Besides, God would be happy to know I'm using good reasoning and logic to react to a situation - being all-knowing, he'd understand my reasons for not believing in him. I assume.

muhammed was a false prophet... seriosly what kind of prophet has sex with little girls? at the age of what...... 60 YEARS LOL. wtf. jesus would never do that he's the symbol of ultimate peace

What kind of God sends bears to maul 42 children (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2kg/2.html#23)? What kind of God is a homophobic, destructive hypocrite who changes his mind and decides to sacrifice himself for something he created? If God is anything, it's psychopathic.

On the note of Muhammed, marrying someone at an early age in puberty wasn't deemed 'bad' in society at the time. You have to realise that morality was completely different and is always subject to change depending on a consensus by society. It's wrong now because we know of the psychological (and other) consequences of forming relationships of such levels with children. (The age of consent in Britain was 12 until very recently.) Besides, your God has done far worse than Muhammed ever did. (Not that I am a Muslim.)

you know whats causing destruction in the world? nuclear weaporny. weres that coming from? science. thats what i thought, it causes nothing but havoc look at all these drone attacks in afhganistan its shameful.

Nothing but havoc...

... and just about every major technological advancement in the world. What you say doesn't change the fact that those scientific discoveries were accurate and true. Scientific observations have proved evolution true, and can predict the conditions of the universe up to 10 ^ -43 seconds after the Big Bang, which is very, very accurate. On the other hand, your religion has given rise to things like witch trials, slaughters and the vicious inquisition as well as intolerance. Tough, but it's true.

[backtobackawesome]

lololol god didnt maul children that was the old testament dont take the jewish book and place that on us we're a peaceful community

say what you want but the theories are just theories and if coming up with these thoeries also means making nuclear weapons and destroying peoples lives then id rather we dont have science at all

[Magus]

say what you want but the theories are just theories and if coming up with these thoeries also means making nuclear weapons and destroying peoples lives then id rather we dont have science at all

You should read this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_as_theory_and_fact)

True, theories are just theories. But scientific theories are not theories. There is a big difference.

[Bath]

If you're raised learning that the color blue is red, you will firmly believe that blue is really red.

If you're raised learning that the Bible is true, you will believe it, and most people stay like that for the rest of their life.

Not saying this is every single case, but that's how it usually turns out.

[embers]

lololol god didnt maul children that was the old testament dont take the jewish book and place that on us we're a peaceful community

Actually, the Jewish books are still a part of the Bible, meaning you have to accept what God did in those books as true. Yeah, he hates Ethiopians too.

[Perseus]

lololol god didnt maul children
Actually, he did. Go read your own religious book. Or is reading too complex for you? that was the old testament dont take the jewish book and place that on us we're a peaceful community

Actually, Jesus says that the Old Testament still stands. You should read your own Bible, you know? I would be kind of insulted if I were you. Atheists know more about your religion than you do. How ironic.

[Jess]

say what you want but the theories are just theories and if coming up with these thoeries also means making nuclear weapons and destroying peoples lives then id rather we dont have science at all

we have to have science. it explains everything from the atom to motion to whales. what, you still think Earth is 4,000 years old?

[Sage]

lololol god didnt maul children that was the old testament dont take the jewish book and place that on us we're a peaceful community

Hell isn't introduced until the New Testament.

[StoppingTime]

yes you can use science to explain things. it proved and proves more things than RELIGION

Who created God?

God approves of rape and murder and slavery. Read the Bible. God's "Word". He's sexist too
I'm posting below Sage ahahhahahahahahah:cool:


God doesn't approve of it.
I have said this so many times, what God said in the Bible then cannot be interpreted today by just reading translations.

[embers]

God doesn't approve of it.
I have said this so many times, what God said in the Bible then cannot be interpreted today by just reading translations.

Then people should also stop trying to interpret it as a book of peace and good morality if you can't properly interpret it. Why follow it?

[backtobackawesome]

Hell isn't introduced until the New Testament.

because GOD trusted us.... thinking we could be good enough not to sin and do terrible things but we did.... and its only fair that we pay for it, thats why the new testament was sent by lord jesus to save us and let us know god has a place for sinners.... its justice beleive it or not

Then people should also stop trying to interpret it as a book of peace and good morality if you can't properly interpret it. Why follow it?

lol.... theres things complex for us to get but that doesn mean you just GIVE UP.... put your faith in jesus and youll see

[Angel Androgynous]

because GOD trusted us.... thinking we could be good enough not to sin and do terrible things but we did.... and its only fair that we pay for it, thats why the new testament was sent by lord jesus to save us and let us know god has a place for sinners.... its justice beleive it or not

Okay, let me give you this situation. There is an atheist doctor. He has rejected God and all religion... he thinks it's utter bullshit. This doctor is saving lives every day. Will he go to hell just for being an atheist?


lol.... theres things complex for us to get but that doesn mean you just GIVE UP.... put your faith in jesus and youll see
You can put your faith into a corpse that most people labeled a troll when he claimed to be the son of the guy in the clouds... I will spend my energy doing other things... like, you know... not living life on my knees praying to a deity that may or may not exist. I have one life... might as well enjoy it.

[Vonn]

because GOD trusted us.... thinking we could be good enough not to sin and do terrible things but we did.... and its only fair that we pay for it, thats why the new testament was sent by lord jesus to save us and let us know god has a place for sinners.... its justice beleive it or not

I hear God apparently knows everything. How could he trust us when he knew we were going to sin?

[Genghis Khan]

its justice beleive it or not

- Find kids making fun of a man's bald head.
- Send two bears to brutally kill the children for their crime.

http://images.memegenerator.net/images/408x/87698.jpg

JUSTICE

[Jess]

Okay, let me give you this situation. There is an atheist doctor. He has rejected God and all religion... he thinks it's utter bullshit. This doctor is saving lives every day. Will he go to hell just for being an atheist?

good one

apparently you'll go to hell if you don't believe in God. It doesn't matter if you were a kind, generous person.

[Bath]

Another thing that bothers me is culture.

If someone is born in an Muslim area and is taught that Islam is the "right" way, and is never exposed to Jesus ever in his or her life... then according to the Christian religion, they go to hell.

If that kind of God really does exist, I don't want to go to Heaven. He's fucked up.

[embers]

because GOD trusted us.... thinking we could be good enough not to sin and do terrible things but we did.... and its only fair that we pay for it, thats why the new testament was sent by lord jesus to save us and let us know god has a place for sinners.... its justice beleive it or not

Again, you've got your own God's attributes wrong. The Christian God is omniscient (knows everything). He knew people were going to sin in the first place. This is another flaw in Christianity that you're probably gonna end up ignoring and going 'hurr durr jesus lord' and why am i even posting here.

lol.... theres things complex for us to get but that doesn mean you just GIVE UP.... put your faith in jesus and youll see

>Point out flaw in Christianity
>Response: 'durr god is 2deep4u'

I'm fucking sick of it.

[Angel Androgynous]

I would like to point out that there are religions MUCH older than Christianity, but they were all created by humans for the same purpose:
To explain things that they couldn't explain. Whatever you can't explain? You put the GOD label over it do no further investigating. WHY people choose to explain things with "God" these days is way beyond me.

[Sage]

If someone is born in an Muslim area and is taught that Islam is the "right" way, and is never exposed to Jesus ever in his or her life...

Bad example, Jesus is mentioned in the qu'ran. Your overall point, though, remains valid. You could even take it a step further and just say that if you only believe in your religion because it conforms to your parents' teachings or the community you were raised in, you're doing so for completely arbitrary reasons.

[backtobackawesome]

all im saying is god is the light. end of.

thing is people have yet to prove god isnt real

[Vonn]

all im saying is god is the light. end of.

And that means...?

thing is people have yet to prove god isnt real

The opposite also holds true. You'll find that for most users here, that isn't good enough.

[StoppingTime]

all im saying is god is the light. end of.

thing is people have yet to prove god isnt real



I do believe in God, but to post this is pointless. This isn't good enough for just about everyone, they don't like the term "blind faith".
I'm Jewish btw.

[huginnmuninn]

I do believe in God, but to post this is pointless. This isn't good enough for just about everyone, they don't like the term "blind faith".
I'm Jewish btw.

im pretty sure this is a debate thing or just for stating ones views. if youre going to just state your views i can understand that but if youre going to try to debate your views then it has to get a little more complicated than just saying i have blind faith. its awesome that you do have blind faith but if youre going to argue the points of your religion then please dont add the blind faith part...

[Sage]

all im saying is god is the light. end of.

If you are completely opposed to changing your mind, then why don't you just stay out of the debate forum period? Don't you find it unfair that you're trying to argue your side and going into a religious moral outrage every time someone tries to argue their own?

For a discussion to take place, both sides need to allow some room for them to change their minds. If you're completely closed minded, nobody on this board will take you seriously or like you as a person.

[Bath]

all im saying is god is the light. end of.

thing is people have yet to prove god isnt real

You haven't proved that God is real.
So your argument is invalid.

[embers]

thing is people have yet to prove god isnt real

derp

[Magus]

He is asking us to prove the non-existence of something that does not exist. Very rational.

Let him prove the non-existence of an invisible zombie I have in my room. Let us see how that goes.

[TheOneAndOnlyJack]

Religion = Greatest marketing scam in history.

[backtobackawesome]

He is asking us to prove the non-existence of something that does not exist. Very rational.

Let him prove the non-existence of an invisible zombie I have in my room. Let us see how that goes.

how do you know god doesnt exist? very rational.

Religion = Greatest marketing scam in history.

atheists = people lacking morality

if your angry at god oh well im praying bro

[Vonn]

how do you know god doesnt exist? very rational.

Obligatory "how do you know he does exist?"


atheists = people lacking morality

if your angry at god oh well im praying bro

With the weight of [-]hell[/-] God off your shoulders, you can make decisions based on what's right and wrong. Not because an almighty being is threatening you with eternal pain, torture, suffering, etc.

Have a blast.

[embers]

how do you know god doesnt exist? very rational.

I prefer putting my faith in this thing called cthulhu... you can't prove it's not real though, so yeah, it's a pretty rational belief.

atheists = people lacking morality

Yeah, that's us. When we're not defiling children's corpses, we're feeding on the live ones. So uh, hide your kids. And maybe your wife.

[Bradworth]

I personally don't believe in god. I don't mind those who do, unless they are completely closed minded and arrogant to think they "know everything" because no-one on this planet does. I'm not afraid to admit that I don't know how the universe began or how life on this planet started either.

I think very scientifically/logically and there is no actual proof of gods existence so there is no reason to believe in it. In my opinion Religion does more harm than good. It's responsible for the majority of wars on this planet along with suffering and intolerance. Fortunately it's not likely to be around forever and already the number of people who believe in god has dropped significantly since say 100 years ago.

[Iris]

Yeah, that's us. When we're not defiling children's corpses, we're feeding on the live ones. So uh, hide your kids. And maybe your wife.

Don't forget the genocide, stoning, rape and inhumane animal sacrifice that us atheists commit by not following the word of God...Oh wait...:rolleyes:

[Angel Androgynous]

how do you know god doesnt exist? very rational.

Oh yes.... an invisible thingamabob living in the clouds is SOOOOOO rational! You win the rational award. *Clap clap clap*
You know, we also have yet to prove that God ISN'T a spaghetti monster and that unicorns don't exist. Let's go, warrior, time to go on a quest of proving what doesn't exist! :D


atheists = people lacking morality

if your angry at god oh well im praying bro
Oh yes, because atheists are the ones who killed people when they said that they didn't believe what they believed.
Atheists are the ones who started the witch trials.
Atheists are the ones who went on the crusades and "holy" wars.
Leik totally....
Atheists are the ones who stand around at soldier's funerals with signs that say: "[-]God[/-] Hates Fags."
Yeah! Atheists aer bad foar not havin fait in da invisible d00d in da sky! Let's say dey b not havin' moralz!

[huginnmuninn]

atheists = people lacking morality

imho i think its kinda sad that ( by your reasoning) religious people need the threat of eternal damnation to do whats right while atheists have no belief in a hell and yet they do whats right too hmmm... because if youre saying that (insert people of any religion here) have more morality then it must be because they are afraid of the eternal damnation not because they are better people.

Holy shit i think i just made a good point....

[Dimitri]

I picked Christianity, Church of the Brethren.

[SosbanFach]

Also Christianity, I'm an Anglican (Church of England). Some apparent Christians here seem to be attempting to shame the religion to hell, pun not intended. I'm not mentioning any names, but to be honest it's no surprise that most of this forum won't take Christianity seriously.

[Bath]

Also Christianity, I'm an Anglican (Church of England). Some apparent Christians here seem to be attempting to shame the religion to hell, pun not intended. I'm not mentioning any names, but to be honest it's no surprise that most of this forum won't take Christianity seriously.

I took Christianity seriously at one point in my life.

I just reasoned out of it.

[Efflorescence]

I'm Roman Catholic and proud.
My friends? I have atheists, roman catholics, protestants, people who are still searching on a quest to find the truth, agnostics.....AND PROUD..
Trying to force my religion and beliefs on others is a concept that goes against the teachings of my own religion....
Imagine if we could all put away our differences and finally realise that when it comes to certain matters there's no 'right' or 'wrong' or 'yes' or 'no', 'logical' or 'illogical'..............
But maybe I' m imagining utopia......

[Amnesiac]

how do you know god doesnt exist? very rational.



atheists = people lacking morality

if your angry at god oh well im praying bro

You're the stereotypical example of a zealous Christian who has absolutely no idea of the fundamentals of debating or conducting a reasonable, rational conversation. I see too much of this on the Internet and in society. It's ridiculous.

YOU MAY WANT TO LOOK HERE. YOU MIGHT LEARN SOMETHING NEW. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof)

Also, to suggest that because someone doesn't believe in your horribly violent God they don't have morals is absolutely inane. You may want to do (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confusianism) some more (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_humanism) research (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism) before you accuse the non-religious and secularists of "lacking morality". Religion isn't necessary to establish a moral code anymore. Maybe 2,000 years ago, when the human race wasn't fully civilized, but certainly not in a modern age where secular ethics are the basis for government.

I don't believe in morality, anyway. I believe in individual rights.

[Bougainvillea]

Trying to force my religion and beliefs on others is a concept that goes against the teachings of my own religion....

The roman catholics killed people who didn't pay taxes to the church. Didn't you ever read In the Name of the Rose?

[Efflorescence]

The roman catholics killed people who didn't pay taxes to the church. Didn't you ever read In the Name of the Rose?

Dude, was I one of those Roman Catholics who did that? No.. so what the hell is your problem?

[TheOldBrigade]

I'm kinda transitioning between christian & Odinism.

[Bougainvillea]

Dude, was I one of those Roman Catholics who did that? No.. so what the hell is your problem?

I don't have a problem. I'm just saying that the roman catholics killed people who weren't a part of their religion. And every roman catholic I've ever met are one of those ones who think that every other religions are bad and people who follow them are going to hell.

I think you're against it. But your religion sure as hell thinks otherwise.

[Iris]

I was watching a TV show called Misfits and in this episode someone was claiming to be Jesus, resurrected, and used his new followers to get sex and money. I thought I'd share this scene:

CBXXunWhcoM

Because it's so true. Religions will command their followers not to perform certain acts, but suddenly someone will come along and break a rule, often with the cost being hundreds of lives, for the sake of God, because apparently God changed its mind. It's ridiculous.

[Coolcat1314]

we all "know" our faith is right because of that word faith. faith is believing in something u cant see or isnt concrete.the only way we can be sure that we were right is after death.

by the way this is my 50th post! yay!

[Efflorescence]

I don't have a problem. I'm just saying that the roman catholics killed people who weren't a part of their religion. And every roman catholic I've ever met are one of those ones who think that every other religions are bad and people who follow them are going to hell.

I think you're against it. But your religion sure as hell thinks otherwise.

You're mixing things up. It's not my 'religion' that thinks otherwise. It's 'some people' that think otherwise. Let me show you what I mean:

If there is a singer and he sings a song......and this singer is rubbish, does that necessarily mean that the song is rubbish as well? You have to distinguish between the 'song' and the 'singer' i. e. between the 'religion' and the 'people'.

I have Roman Catholics at school who are horrible just as I know plenty of atheists who are horrible. Does that mean that their 'religion' or in this case 'no religion' is horrible? NO. Does that give me the right to say 'All atheists are horrible because many of the atheists I've met are horrible?' NO.....so I definitely do not see your point here.

[Sage]

If there is a singer and he sings a song......and this singer is rubbish, does that necessarily mean that the song is rubbish as well? You have to distinguish between the 'song' and the 'singer' i. e. between the 'religion' and the 'people'.=

Would you be willing to argue that there's no such thing as a rubbish song, then?

[Magus]

Would you be willing to argue that there's no such thing as a rubbish song, then?Even though that's a good analogy our guy did, I have to give him that. But it's good that you point out the flaw in that analogy. Saying that a particular song is rubbish is purely subjective, other may view it differently.

Such as religion. To the religious, they don't realize that stoning a person to death is such a bad thing.

[Efflorescence]

Would you be willing to argue that there's no such thing as a rubbish song, then?

And then there's another thing.....if a song is rubbish to me, then that doesn't necessarily mean that it's rubbish to everyone. If you tell me 'Your religion is rubbish', then I will immediately strike back by telling you 'What if your religion or in this case your 'no religion' is rubbish?" It's my word against yours. This is not Maths....where 1+1=2 and that's it, it's not as simple as that.......

My religion is as real to me as much as your 'no religion' is real to you...if you get the point here.

Would you be willing to argue that there's no such thing as a rubbish song, then?

And then there's another thing.....if a song is rubbish to me, then that doesn't necessarily mean that it's rubbish to everyone. If you tell me 'Your religion is rubbish', then I will immediately strike back by telling you 'What if your religion or in this case your 'no religion' is rubbish?" It's my word against yours. This is not Maths....where 1+1=2 and that's it, it's not as simple as that.......

My religion is as real to me as much as your 'no religion' is real to you...if you get the point here.

Even though that's a good analogy our guy did, I have to give him that. But it's good that you point out the flaw in that analogy. Saying that a particular song is rubbish is purely subjective, other may view it differently.

Such as religion. To the religious, they don't realize that stoning a person to death is such a bad thing.

First of all sorry I double posted.........

Second of all, again, you cannot tar everyone with the same brush. Why do you keep saying 'to the religious' as if we have all the same DNA and we're all programmed to do the same thing like frikkin robots? It's just not fair to judge like that.

[Sage]

My religion is as real to me as much as your 'no religion' is real to you...if you get the point here.

I'm afraid you have a laughably liberal grasp of reality, then.

[deadpie]

And then there's another thing.....if a song is rubbish to me, then that doesn't necessarily mean that it's rubbish to everyone.

Here's the first problem - You're comparing religion to a song, using the subjective idea of music as of religion also being subjective.

Religion is quite objective though and it does force most people to think without an opinion, mainly because you don't have an opinion in the first place because the religion has pretty much built your entire philosophy.

If you tell me 'Your religion is rubbish', then I will immediately strike back by telling you 'What if your religion or in this case your 'no religion' is rubbish?"

Well then I would probably ask for your proof, evidence, or just general points to prove that I'm wrong, then I would come back with my points until someone gives up. That's typically how the whole religion argument goes, except the religious person will stick his/her fingers in their ears and go, "LALALALA" to not listen when they're forced to actually THINK.

First of all sorry I double posted.........

Second of all, again, you cannot tar everyone with the same brush. Why do you keep saying 'to the religious' as if we have all the same DNA and we're all programmed to do the same thing like frikkin robots? It's just not fair to judge like that.

Heh, in a way most of you do believe, worship and program exactly like robots without thinking for a second about how idiotic some of the things that happen in the Bible actually are.

[Efflorescence]

Here's the first problem - You're comparing religion to a song, using the subjective idea of music as of religion also being subjective.

Religion is quite objective though and it does force most people to think without an opinion, mainly because you don't have an opinion in the first place because the religion has pretty much built your entire philosophy.


Bravo. That's exactly what I mean by 'closed-minded'. Maybe I can say the fact that you're an atheist has built much your entire philosophy too. Can I say that? NO. And your implication that I don't have an opinion just because I'm religious is ridiculous....I have an opinion because above all I'm a UNIQUE individual.


Well then I would probably ask for your proof, evidence, or just general points to prove that I'm wrong, then I would come back with my points until someone gives up. That's typically how the whole religion argument goes, except the religious person will stick his/her fingers in their ears and go, "LALALALA" to not listen when they're forced to actually THINK.


Does what I'm going to say really make any difference to you? You have already judged me......you told me what I'm going to say before you even gave me the opportunity to open my mouth.

Heh, in a way most of you do believe, worship and program exactly like robots without thinking for a second about how idiotic some of the things that happen in the Bible actually are.

Again, 'idiotic' to you. Don't you think that I have my doubts too? Don't you think that maybe, just maybe, I doubt the existence of God at times, especially when considering the fact that I'm a science student, with the intention of becoming a doctor? Yes, I am after all human.

I'm afraid you have a laughably liberal grasp of reality, then.

Define 'reality'.....are you implying that 'reality' is what YOU believe in?

[deadpie]

Bravo. That's exactly what I mean by 'closed-minded'. Maybe I can say the fact that you're an atheist has built much your entire philosophy too.

Heh. I chose my atheism. My setting in where I live is very Christian and I've also been by other religions in my life, so I wouldn't consider my coming to atheism as closed minded when I've faced many different forms of beliefs.

What builds most of my philosophy is evidence and personal experience.

Can I say that? NO. And your implication that I don't have an opinion just because I'm religious is ridiculous....I have an opinion because above all I'm a UNIQUE individual.

And what's so UNIQUE about you?

Does what I'm going to say really make any difference to you? You have already judged me......you told me what I'm going to say before you even gave me the opportunity to open my mouth.

I'm still letting you talk. I'm not shutting you up. Speak as free and loud as you want. I'll listen and debate it.

Again, 'idiotic' to you.

Any rational person would agree that being forced to marry the woman you raped as a punishment is quite idiotic, which is something that happens in the Bible.

Don't you think that I have my doubts too? Don't you think that maybe, just maybe, I doubt the existence of God at times, especially when considering the fact that I'm a science student, with the intention of becoming a doctor? Yes, I am after all human.

I don't know you, so I don't know of your doubts and I can't give a foresight view when all I've had in words with you is a small conversation on VT.

Also, many Doctors are Christian and other religions. All because you have to learn SCIENCE doesn't mean you have magically faced the bold opinions of atheism and now you've gotten the strength of faith to be a Christian with the illusion of being open minded, which is pretty much every damn apologetic on this planet.

Define 'reality'.....are you implying that 'reality' is what YOU believe in?

Stop with that fake pseudo philosophical try hard to be deep thing you have going on. Don't try to impress people on this site, there's no point.

[Sage]

Define 'reality'.....
Everything that exists regardless of our perception.

are you implying that 'reality' is what YOU believe in?
No, that's what you're implying, and it's stupid.

[Bougainvillea]

Oh, might I add that when I said your religion, I mean what is said by the religious texts. Which I'm assuming is what you base your religious beliefs on. Which is subjective.

You pick and choose parts of the bible, because you kinda have to now. Humanity has taken quite the step since that book's been written. I know there are different people who have different views. That's. What I meant by saying you think that. But your religion, in the literal form, without modern bias says otherwise. But now, like I've said before, people just like to claim that god was either just kidding, or he fucked up. When actually its just not true, and its a book filled with lies an-

Oops. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to give you a spoiler. How rude of me.

[Efflorescence]

Heh. I chose my atheism. My setting in where I live is very Christian and I've also been by other religions in my life, so I wouldn't consider my coming to atheism as closed minded when I've faced many different forms of beliefs.

Do you know for sure if that's not what happened to me as well? Perhaps I was one of those who didn't chose Christianity because 'everyone was doing it' and by the way, just for your info, one of my friends is an atheist so even I have faced and seen different beliefs.


And what's so UNIQUE about you?


Well, first of all I have a different genotype (genetic material, DNA) than all the other people in the world. And second of all, my nurture (my upbringing, the experiences I faced in life) are unlike the others' so...yes I am unique.



Any rational person would agree that being forced to marry the woman you raped as a punishment is quite idiotic, which is something that happens in the Bible.

Very good, you've just realized that the Bible cannot be taken word for word and that people have flaws.



Stop with that fake pseudo philosophical try hard to be deep thing you have going on. Don't try to impress people on this site, there's no point.

If you think that by showing my opinion, I'm trying to impress you, then you must have a very high opinion of yourself. And to tell you the truth, you can think whatever the bloody hell you want, I will say my opinion REGARDLESS.

[Efflorescence]

Everything that exists regardless of our perception.


No, that's what you're implying, and it's stupid.

Definition of reality:

'In philosophy, reality is the state of things as they actually exist, rather than as they may appear or might be imagined.[1] In a wider definition, reality includes everything that is and has been, whether or not it is observable or comprehensible'. A still more broad definition includes everything that has existed, exists, or will exist, not just in the mind, or even more broadly also including what is only in the mind.


It seems as though you have a laughably narrow-minded view of reality and IT"S STUPID.

[Magus]

Second of all, again, you cannot tar everyone with the same brush. Why do you keep saying 'to the religious' as if we have all the same DNA and we're all programmed to do the same thing like frikkin robots? It's just not fair to judge like that.Yes, the religious do not realise the flaws of their religion--they think it is perfect and absolute. And, that's why I said the 'religious', the noun, and not of those who follow the religion.


It seems as though you have a laughably narrow-minded view of reality and IT"S STUPID.And in reality, God has no place in existence.

[Genghis Khan]

Very good, you've just realized that the Bible cannot be taken word for word and that people have flaws.

Why don't you, for the sake of all the Christians that keep telling us this, tell us what exactly we should and shouldn't take literally.

There's about what, dozens of sects and denominations of Christianity, each denomination thinking its version is correct while all others are incorrect. Aside from major and minor denominations, each individual Christian will hold different views from another, so... really each individual has their own modulated Christianity that they think is correct.

When people criticize Christianity, they do it based on the texts, and since no Christian as of yet has provided a sane, demonstrable, logical interpretation of the religion, it only makes sense that we do that.

Christians interpret the world's creation in 6 days as a metaphor for 4.6 billion odd years, but how do they know they have to? There's nothing crystal clear, or yet, made clear about why one should interpret it as that instead of its literal form so... why?

Next time, please don't tell us not to take it literally, unless you've already proved why we shouldn't.

[Bougainvillea]

Definition of reality:

'In philosophy, reality is the state of things as they actually exist, rather than as they may appear or might be imagined.[1] In a wider definition, reality includes everything that is and has been, whether or not it is observable or comprehensible'. A still more broad definition includes everything that has existed, exists, or will exist, not just in the mind, or even more broadly also including what is only in the mind.


It seems as though you have a laughably narrow-minded view of reality and IT"S STUPID.

What the fuck does this have to do with anything. Who gives a shit what your, or his definition of reality is. Not everyone has a masters degree on this crap, and I can guarantee you that Sage doesn't give one either. Your argument is pointless and is going nowhere. Great job on trying to start one though. If you want to debate pointlessly about philosophy, start a thread about it.

[backtobackawesome]

i am a jedi

[Sage]

Definition of reality:

The dictionary is neither set in stone nor infallible. Your argument is invalid.

[Efflorescence]

The dictionary is neither set in stone nor infallible. Your argument is invalid.

You have no right to tell me what my argument is or is not. I believe that there's no such thing as the reality......but only mine and your reality. Deal with it.

I'm sorry (am I?) that we have started on the wrong foot but your intellectually snobbish, arrogant attitude is getting on my nerves. How dare you tell me things such as 'you have no sense of subtletly' , 'your arguments are stupid', 'your argument is invalid' as if you have already answered all the questions that there are in this world and know you're right and everybody else is wrong?

And of course the dictionary is not infallible but Sage is. Sure...whatever rocks your boat then.

Why don't you, for the sake of all the Christians that keep telling us this, tell us what exactly we should and shouldn't take literally.

There's about what, dozens of sects and denominations of Christianity, each denomination thinking its version is correct while all others are incorrect. Aside from major and minor denominations, each individual Christian will hold different views from another, so... really each individual has their own modulated Christianity that they think is correct.

When people criticize Christianity, they do it based on the texts, and since no Christian as of yet has provided a sane, demonstrable, logical interpretation of the religion, it only makes sense that we do that.

Christians interpret the world's creation in 6 days as a metaphor for 4.6 billion odd years, but how do they know they have to? There's nothing crystal clear, or yet, made clear about why one should interpret it as that instead of its literal form so... why?

Next time, please don't tell us not to take it literally, unless you've already proved why we shouldn't.


You can search the whole world but you will never find the correct version. Everyone has his own interpretation about pretty much everything....even about for example evolution itself (which I believe in)....scientists have different opinions about how this takes place.

What the fuck does this have to do with anything. Who gives a shit what your, or his definition of reality is. Not everyone has a masters degree on this crap, and I can guarantee you that Sage doesn't give one either. Your argument is pointless and is going nowhere. Great job on trying to start one though. If you want to debate pointlessly about philosophy, start a thread about it.

I do not have a degree on philosophy. I'm just expressing my opinion. If you don't like it, it's your problem. As simple as that.


Edit(Thor): Please don't double/tripple post. Use the 'Multi-Quote' feature of this site next time.
Thanks,
~Thor

[embers]

You can search the whole world but you will never find the correct version.

Then don't look to the Bible for your philosophy, because chances are, you aren't right. The fact that it can be interpreted as literally anything severely undermines its credibility.

Everyone has his own interpretation about pretty much everything....even about for example evolution itself (which I believe in)....scientists have different opinions about how this takes place.

Different scientists' opinions on evolutions don't affect how it happens, or whether it happens at all. Your analogy doesn't really mean anything.

[Sage]

You have no right to tell me what my argument is or is not.
Considering this is a debate, I certainly do, and regardless, I just did.

I believe that there's no such thing as the reality......
Of that, I am sure.

but only mine and your reality.
And you're more than welcomed to believe that, just as I am more than welcomed to point out that subjective interpretations do not produce objective absolutes.

I'm sorry (am I?)
You aren't.

that we have started on the wrong foot but your intellectually snobbish, arrogant attitude is getting on my nerves.
Then take it up with a moderator. Nobody in this thread cares.

How dare you tell me things such as 'you have no sense of subtletly' , 'your arguments are stupid', 'your argument is invalid'
If you don't like being told your arguments are stupid and invalid, then stop making stupid, invalid arguments.

as if you have already answered all the questions that there are in this world and know you're right and everybody else is wrong?
I answer every question with the reasonable certainty that I am correct because it would be silly of me to hold views that I didn't feel were correct. I'm sorry that you are so easily offended by people not taking up pseudo-intellectual wishy-washy positions that imply everyone is actually right and no one is actually wrong and everything cannot be judged and that we're all equally valid and invalid in anything and everything.

And of course the dictionary is not infallible but Sage is. Sure...whatever rocks your boat then.
By your tone, I can tell it's not my boat that's been rocked. If you want to be taken seriously in a debate, don't get personal. Go ponder that for a while.

[Efflorescence]

Considering this is a debate, I certainly do, and regardless, I just did.

Ok then, I accept your opinion. Sorry, I tend to be a bit hot-headed....many Maltese people are. But if that's what you think about me, then be it. I've faced worse.


And you're more than welcomed to believe that, just as I am more than welcomed to point out that subjective interpretations do not produce objective absolutes.

I believe that not all things in this world are 'absolutes'.

You aren't.

That was a rhetorical question but you answered it, ok then. Who knows?

Then take it up with a moderator. Nobody in this thread cares.

When I think something about someone: 'x', I do not go and confide in 'y'....I tell 'x' first. And if no one cares, then you weren't offended (sigh of relief) because you don't care.

If you don't like being told your arguments are stupid and invalid, then stop making stupid, invalid arguments.

I would like to point out that just because my arguments are not similar to yours, that doesn't necessarily mean that they are invalid and stupid.


I answer every question with the reasonable certainty that I am correct because it would be silly of me to hold views that I didn't feel were correct. I'm sorry that you are so easily offended by people not taking up pseudo-intellectual wishy-washy positions that imply everyone is actually right and no one is actually wrong and everything cannot be judged and that we're all equally valid and invalid in anything and everything.

Yes, you have summarised my ideas almost perfectly. Except for the 'pseudo-intellectual wishy-washy' part but yes, I believe that in certain matters...mind you not in ALL, there's no such thing as 'wrong' and 'right', 'valid' and 'invalid' but only 'interpretation 1' and 'interpretation 2'. Like art, when one reads a poem, one can give it different interpretations. Who's to say who's correct and who's not in that? There are some things that you cannot know (by 'you' I mean 'people in general'). Even science itself tells you that there are some things which you can never possibly know for certain. SCIENCE ITSELF.


By your tone, I can tell it's not my boat that's been rocked. If you want to be taken seriously in a debate, don't get personal. Go ponder that for a while.

I'm sorry if I got personal. I didn't mean to. It was not directed at 'you' in particular. I just wanted to point out that no human is infallible so basically, I wanted to say that your argument makes no sense because everyone is 'not infallible'.

[Sage]

I believe that not all things in this world are 'absolutes'.
Your belief has no affect on things that are absolute, however.


I would like to point out that just because my arguments are not similar to yours, that doesn't necessarily mean that they are invalid and stupid.
Correct. Your opinions being invalid and stupid makes them invalid and stupid.

Yes, you have summarised my ideas almost perfectly.
Yes, and those ideas are only held by people with no actual opinion.

There are some things that you cannot know (by 'you' I mean 'people in general').
Such as?

Even science itself tells you that there are some things which you can never possibly know for certain. SCIENCE ITSELF.
No it doesn't.

I just wanted to point out that no human is infallible so basically, I wanted to say that your argument makes no sense because everyone is 'not infallible'.
So your argument is that nobody can be right because everybody is wrong and because everybody is wrong they're all right but they're only right because they have to be wrong because nobody can say whether or not what's right is actually right.

I think I speak for a lot of people in this thread when I ask: Just what the fuck are you trying to argue, anyway?

Your position has no substance.

[Efflorescence]

No it doesn't.
Yes, it does. Have you ever heard of Heisenberg's Uncertainty principle? Well, everything is made up of atoms and these atoms have electrons( particles outside in shells bla bla). Now, Heisenberg in his principle (not a hypothesis but a PRINCIPLE) says that one cannot ever know the exact position of the electron in an atom. No one can ever know. So, basically there is something that you can never know. The exact position of the electron in an atom.:)

So your argument is that nobody can be right because everybody is wrong and because everybody is wrong they're all right but they're only right because they have to be wrong because nobody can say whether or not what's right is actually right.

I think I speak for a lot of people in this thread when I ask: Just what the fuck are you trying to argue, anyway?

Your position has no substance.

Whoa...you almost mixed me up there:)....no...what I'm saying is that if I say 'I think that Sandra is beautiful' and someone else tells me 'I think that Sandra is as ugly as hell'....who's fuckin wrong there? Who's fuckin right? How do you determine who's wrong and who's right?

[deadpie]

Very good, you've just realized that the Bible cannot be taken word for word and that people have flaws.

See, you and other Christians realize this, but what is so fucking dumb is that you Christians like to hand pick which parts are serious and which parts are just fable.

I can prove the great flood never happened, then you can say it was a figure of speech or whatever, but that would be a contradiction because Jesus himself in the Bible admits he believes that the flood happened. Everything in the Bible is MEANT to be taken seriously, or else it wouldn't be there. It's just we're at a day and age where we use more common sense and have intellectual morals that don't fit up with burning children as a sacrifice to God.

If you think that by showing my opinion, I'm trying to impress you, then you must have a very high opinion of yourself. And to tell you the truth, you can think whatever the bloody hell you want, I will say my opinion REGARDLESS.

If you knew me you would know I have no high opinion of myself or ego. What I was trying to say is you shouldn't try to act philosophical with these points that go ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE and mean nothing at all, because it looks like you're just trying to seem smart. If you want to seem smart, bring a new set of opinions to the table, challenge people in ways they haven't been challenged.


For fucks sake unban Ripple so we can have a Christian worth debating.

[Sage]

Yes, it does. Have you ever heard of Heisenberg's Uncertainty principle? Well, everything is made up of atoms and these atoms have electrons( particles outside in shells bla bla). Now, Heisenberg in his principle (not a hypothesis but a PRINCIPLE) says that one cannot ever know the exact position of the electron in an atom. No one can ever know. So, basically there is something that you can never know. The exact position of the electron in an atom.:)
Heisenberg is not the collective consensus and mouthpiece of science. Your argument is invalid.

Whoa...you almost mixed me up there:)....no...what I'm saying is that if I say 'I think that Sandra is beautiful' and someone else tells me 'I think that Sandra is as ugly as hell'....who's fuckin wrong there? Who's fuckin right? How do you determine who's wrong and who's right?
Beauty cannot objectively be measured. Existence can. When religions make claims pertaining to the existence of certain things, these claims can be tested, and if tests produce nothing, then it is acceptable to conclude that the religion is false.


For fucks sake unban Ripple so we can have a Christian worth debating.
I sincerely doubt he would have any interest in returning even if he were unbanned, Tim.

[embers]

For fucks sake unban Ripple so we can have a Christian worth debating.

I may not have been there, but what was so good about Ripplemagne?

[Efflorescence]

Heisenberg is not the collective consensus and mouthpiece of science. Your argument is invalid.

So basically, you do not even trust in science as when scientists tell you something, you say 'Heisenberg is not the collective mouthpiece.....' and 'she is not the collective mouthpiece......' and 'he is not the collective mouthpiece.......' so basically you can trust in no scientist at all........

Beauty cannot objectively be measured. Existence can. When religions make claims pertaining to the existence of certain things, these claims can be tested, and if tests produce nothing, then it is acceptable to conclude that the religion is false.

You cannot measure the existence of everything.

[Genghis Khan]

You cannot measure the existence of everything.

Says who?


So basically, you do not even trust in science as when scientists tell you something, you say 'Heisenberg is not the collective mouthpiece.....' and 'she is not the collective mouthpiece......' and 'he is not the collective mouthpiece.......' so basically you can trust in no scientist at all........

>He doesn't trust one scientist's theory
>Therefore he doesn't trust any kind of science

Are you for real?

[Sage]

So basically, you do not even trust in science as when scientists tell you something, you say 'Heisenberg is not the collective mouthpiece.....' and 'she is not the collective mouthpiece......' and 'he is not the collective mouthpiece.......' so basically you can trust in no scientist at all........
Just because you are a scientist does not mean everything you say is true. In addition, you may not be able to measure the most precise characteristics of everything, but the existence of these things can still all be measured.


You cannot measure the existence of everything.
Sure you can. What's something you can't measure?


>He doesn't trust one scientist's theory
>Therefore he doesn't trust any kind of science

Are you for real?

Thanks.

[Perseus]

Yes, it does. Have you ever heard of Heisenberg's Uncertainty principle? Well, everything is made up of atoms and these atoms have electrons( particles outside in shells bla bla). Now, Heisenberg in his principle (not a hypothesis but a PRINCIPLE) says that one cannot ever know the exact position of the electron in an atom. No one can ever know. So, basically there is something that you can never know. The exact position of the electron in an atom.:)




That's wrong. The principle states you can't know the position whilst knowing the speed, and you can't know the speed whilst knowing the position. So yes, you can know the position.

[huginnmuninn]

You cannot measure the existence of everything.

cogito ergo sum

i think therefore i am

i think im measuring a cup of water therefore i am measuring a cup of water.

[Efflorescence]

Says who?

Says me.


>He doesn't trust one scientist's theory
>Therefore he doesn't trust any kind of science

Are you for real?

Yes, I am for real. Saying that because he doesn't trust one scientist's theory, he doesn't trust any kind of science, is just as dumb as saying that just because I believe that some parts of the Bible are not true, then that must mean that the whole Bible is not true. Just as a scientist and his theory are not representative of the whole science, then one Christian is not representative of the whole Christianity and an event in the bible is not representative of the whole bible.

Sure you can. What's something you can't measure?


You cannot measure hope and trust and abstract things. You cannot measure the existence of anything before the Big Bang. Now I believe in hope and trust and I believe that there was something (not sure what) before the Big Bang. I also believe in God just as I believe He's abstract and his existence cannot be measured.


That's wrong. The principle states you can't know the position whilst knowing the speed, and you can't know the speed whilst knowing the position. So yes, you can know the position.

You cannot pinpoint the exact position of an electron in atom. That's why we use orbitals. And even if I assume that you're correct you still cannot know both the position and speed at a given time.


cogito ergo sum

Who's trying to impress now?

I sincerely doubt he would have any interest in returning even if he were unbanned, Tim.

I sympathize if not empathize with him, whoever he is.

[Perseus]

You cannot pinpoint the exact position of an electron in atom. That's why we use orbitals. And even if I assume that you're correct you still cannot know both the position and speed at a given time.





Ok? That's not what you said, so it doesn't matter.

[Genghis Khan]

Yes, I am for real. Saying that because he doesn't trust one scientist's theory, he doesn't trust any kind of science, is just as dumb as saying that just because I believe that some parts of the Bible are not true, then that must mean that the whole Bible is not true. Just as a scientist and his theory are not representative of the whole science, then one Christian is not representative of the whole Christianity and an event in the bible is not representative of the whole bible.

Well done for explaining that to yourself.

So basically, you do not even trust in science as when scientists tell you something, you say 'Heisenberg is not the collective mouthpiece.....' and 'she is not the collective mouthpiece......' and 'he is not the collective mouthpiece.......' so basically you can trust in no scientist at all........

[Efflorescence]

Well done for explaining that to yourself.

Since most atheists tell me that if you can't believe all there is in the Bible, then you don't believe in the Bible, then the bible must be rubbish and God must not exist, I figured I could say that if you don't believe in some part of science, then that must mean you don't believe in science. Do you see now?

And another thing:

Why don't you, for the sake of all the Christians that keep telling us this, tell us what exactly we should and shouldn't take literally.

I won't tell you Jack Squat. Create your own personal, interpretation of God and your own personal interpretation of the Bible. And anyway, you have already chosen to interpret it as being false and you have already decided to take nothing literally. I respect your interpretation but I don't agree with it.


There's about what, dozens of sects and denominations of Christianity, each denomination thinking its version is correct while all others are incorrect. Aside from major and minor denominations, each individual Christian will hold different views from another, so... really each individual has their own modulated Christianity that they think is correct.

I don't think God cares in what ways He is worshipped and whether you decide to call Him 'God' or 'Allah'.

[Bougainvillea]

Since most atheists tell me that if you can't believe all there is in the Bible, then you don't believe in the Bible, then the bible must be rubbish and God must not exist, I figured I could say that if you don't believe in some part of science, then that must mean you don't believe in science. Do you see now?



No. Because there are so many different people who study science, and they can verify data with each other. Even with people on the other side of the planet. Not only that, but science is more of a process that uses logic by trial and error. So there is more than one type of "science". Like computer science, and topics like environmental systems and health sciences. And its all really here. Nothing is being made up. And if something is going to be made up, its going to be a hypothesis.

The Bible is only one book, and an old shitty one at that.

[embers]

I don't think God cares in what ways He is worshipped and whether you decide to call Him 'God' or 'Allah'.

What's your view on polytheism then? I mean polytheism in more ancient religions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Maya_gods_and_supernatural_beings). Also:

You cannot measure the existence of anything before the Big Bang.

durr (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1132618&postcount=1701)

[Genghis Khan]

Since most atheists tell me that if you can't believe all there is in the Bible, then you don't believe in the Bible, then the bible must be rubbish and God must not exist, I figured I could say that if you don't believe in some part of science, then that must mean you don't believe in science. Do you see now?

Oh my God, do you ever get sarcasm on the internet? YOU said, and I quote yet again:

So basically, you do not even trust in science as when scientists tell you something, you say 'Heisenberg is not the collective mouthpiece.....' and 'she is not the collective mouthpiece......' and 'he is not the collective mouthpiece.......' so basically you can trust in no scientist at all........

And I, meant to say what you're saying is total bollocks and basically simplified it to this:


>He doesn't trust one scientist's theory
>Therefore he doesn't trust any kind of science

And there you are now contradicting what you previously said and acting as if you never said it.


I won't tell you Jack Squat. Create your own personal, interpretation of God and your own personal interpretation of the Bible.

So the Bible cannot be proven true, it's just how people interpret it then. Cool.

And anyway, you have already chosen to interpret it as being false

I've decided it's false because of what I've read, I don't interpret any of it as anything because I don't know what I'm supposed to interpret. I'm taking it in its literal form, but you're coming up and telling us we're not interpreting it right. Well, you can start by telling us what we're doing wrong, and how we can interpret it to get its correct meaning, but apparently you're not prepared for that either, so really... your points just put us on a road to nowhere.

and you have already decided to take nothing literally. I respect your interpretation but I don't agree with it.

Please read my posts before replying to them in the near future, I've already said that I along with the other Atheists and Agnostics on this page criticize the Bible in its purest form, until an apologetic comes up and goes 'interpretation hurr durr'.


I don't think God cares in what ways He is worshipped and whether you decide to call Him 'God' or 'Allah'.

How do you know? He's pretty specific about the clothes we wear, the food we eat, who we have sex with, how much we pray to him, what we believe. How come he's so liberal about how people worship him?

[Efflorescence]

What's your view on polytheism then? I mean polytheism in more ancient religions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Maya_gods_and_supernatural_beings).


Polytheism is the belief in more than one God. I'm talking about different interpretations of one God.

durr (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1132618&postcount=1701)

I already knew about what Stephen Hawking says about the Big Bang. It's absurd to say that all questions before the Big Bang are meaningless as something must have caused it. I term that something 'The Creator'

Oh my God, do you ever get sarcasm on the internet?

Perhaps it is you that didn't get my sarcasm. I posted the bit about science to show that the same as it is absurd for me to say that one cannot choose what bits of science to believe, so it is absurd to say that one cannot choose what bits of the Bible to believe.


I've decided it's false because of what I've read, I don't interpret any of it as anything because I don't know what I'm supposed to interpret. I'm taking it in its literal form, but you're coming up and telling us we're not interpreting it right. Well, you can start by telling us what we're doing wrong, and how we can interpret it to get its correct meaning, but apparently you're not prepared for that either, so really... your points just put us on a road to nowhere.

I have never told you that you're interpreting it wrong. I just told you that I interpret it differently. The bible is above all a work of art.......different interpretations exist.

How do you know? He's pretty specific about the clothes we wear, the food we eat, who we have sex with, how much we pray to him, what we believe. How come he's so liberal about how people worship him?

God doesn't force you to do anything. Have sex with whom you want and believe what you want. I don't think that he has ever sent you locusts or turned the water in you well red just because you chose to not believe in Him.


And I, meant to say what you're saying is total bollocks

What you think about my arguments is your opinion. It makes no difference to me.

[embers]

Polytheism is the belief in more than one God. I'm talking about different interpretations of one God.

And I'm asking for your belief on polytheism. If you account most if not all monotheistic religions to different interpretations of the same God, then what do you account polytheism to?

[Genghis Khan]

Perhaps it is you that didn't get my sarcasm. I posted the bit about science to show that the same as it is absurd for me to say that one cannot choose what bits of science to believe, so it is absurd to say that one cannot choose what bits of the Bible to believe.

Being doubtful of an un-credit-worthy theory someone came up with does not mean going against science.


I have never told you that you're interpreting it wrong. I just told you that I interpret it differently. The bible is above all a work of art.......different interpretations exist.

Then there's no way to tell which interpretation is true, so taking its literal form into questioning is in fact, the proper way to criticize the Christian religion, which is what we're doing. Having done so, you'll also find that it'll always come to the conclusion that the Bible doesn't have much truth.

God doesn't force you to do anything.

No, he just threatens you with eternal damnation. I was hoping me and him could come to some sort of understanding but, eternal damnation.. yeah that's cool too.

Have sex with whom you want and believe what you want. I don't think that he has ever sent you locusts or turned the water in you well red just because you chose to not believe in Him.

1. He hasn't because he doesn't exist.
2. According to the Bible he did before, for some reason he's given up torturing us now.

[embers]

2. According to the Bible he did before, for some reason he's given up torturing us now.

Always good to adopt a fresh, more rational perspective on shit, even if it doesn't negate what you've done previously

[Efflorescence]

And I'm asking for your belief on polytheism. If you account most if not all monotheistic religions to different interpretations of the same God, then what do you account polytheism to?

I don't think much about it since 'I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
you shall have no other gods before me.'

No, he just threatens you with eternal damnation. I was hoping me and him could come to some sort of understanding but, eternal damnation.. yeah that's cool too.

I believe that eternal damnation is only the consequence of your actions. God doesn't send anyone to Hell. Every action brings with it a reaction. And everyone has to SUCK IT UP.

1. He hasn't because he doesn't exist.
2. According to the Bible he did before, for some reason he's given up torturing us now.

1) Oh my God, do you ever get sarcasm on the internet?

Oh my God


Do you or do you not believe in God?


2) Perhaps the people of the Old Testament interpreted every tragic event as a 'a punishment' from God........I do not think that God punishes anyone...when shit happens, it's a consequence of your action.

[Magus]

I believe that eternal damnation is only the consequence of your actions. God doesn't send anyone to Hell. Every action brings with it a reaction. And everyone has to SUCK IT UP.
It was what you believe. But the fact still remains, that God punishes the sinful. And the disbelievers are one of the sinners.

Do you or do you not believe in God?
'Oh my God' is an expression and has nothing to do with belief.

[Efflorescence]

It was what you believe. But the fact still remains, that God punishes the sinful. And the disbelievers are one of the sinners..

Oh my God.....yes sure.....sometimes I see 'sinners' and ask God: Why do these appear to have all the good luck in the world and others, who are trying to live a good life, suffer? I think it's the opposite, Faris really.


'Oh my God' is an expression and has nothing to do with belief.

I was being a bit bitchy.....bite me. :D I'm a Catholic not a saint.

[Genghis Khan]

I believe that eternal damnation is only the consequence of your actions. God doesn't send anyone to Hell. Every action brings with it a reaction. And everyone has to SUCK IT UP.

Bit harsh really.


2) Perhaps the people of the Old Testament interpreted every tragic event as a 'a punishment' from God........I do not think that God punishes anyone...when shit happens, it's a consequence of your action.

Again, from a Biblical perspective, God brings about that action. This isn't my INTERPRETATION, I'm just referring to every time God says he will punish the unbelievers/sinners in hell.

Oh my God.....yes sure.....sometimes I see 'sinners' and ask God: Why do these appear to have all the good luck in the world and others, who are trying to live a good life, suffer? I think it's the opposite, Faris really.

Uh, not really... paedophiles, rapists, murderers, child molesters don't really live great lives. Most of them don't at least.


I was being a bit bitchy.....bite me. :D I'm a Catholic not a saint.

you're going to hell for that

[Efflorescence]

Uh, not really... paedophiles, rapists, murderers, child molesters don't really live great lives. Most of them don't at least.


Do you think that I was referring to rapists and such? Alas, those are not the only sinners and yes, most of them suffer. I was referring to those that have loads of friends, fans, admirers, everyone loves them but deep down, they are as cold as ice. I consider myself to be very perceptive...I notice them.....they have 'everything'. They kind of 'look like the innocent flower but be the serpent under it' (Macbeth) ....I've met many in my life, believe me.


you're going to hell for that.

I'm so lovable that even Satan will fall in love with me.

[Magus]

Oh my God.....yes sure.....sometimes I see 'sinners' and ask God: Why do these appear to have all the good luck in the world and others, who are trying to live a good life, suffer? I think it's the opposite, Faris really.Honestly, it depends on who you are, where are you, who is your people, what do you do. Not because of what you believe in, or what you do that are against the commandments.

[embers]

I don't think much about it since 'I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
you shall have no other gods before me.'

You'd better start giving it thought because it and Catholicism lie at the same level of credibility.

I believe that eternal damnation is only the consequence of your actions. God doesn't send anyone to Hell. Every action brings with it a reaction. And everyone has to SUCK IT UP.

Not everyone believes that - since you insist so much that God is what you interpret him to be, suck that up. But, you're just disregarding the countless amount of times God/Jesus have said who is being sent (emphasis on sent) to hell and who isn't.

I was referring to those that have loads of friends, fans, admirers, everyone loves them but deep down, they are as cold as ice. I consider myself to be very perceptive...I notice them.....they have 'everything'. They kind of 'look like the innocent flower but be the serpent under it' (Macbeth) ....I've met many in my life, believe me.

Aren't Christians not supposed to be so judgemental? And stop being so ambiguous - what have these people with so many fans and admirers done that is so morally wrong?

[Perseus]

Aren't Christians not supposed to be so judgemental?
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

[Apparitions]

I'm so lovable that even Satan will fall in love with me.
Modest as well...

[Efflorescence]

Honestly, it depends on who you are, where are you, who is your people, what do you do. Not because of what you believe in, or what you do that are against the commandments.

I never said it was because of what you believe in. You seem nice but don't put words in my mouth.

You'd better start giving it thought because it and Catholicism lie at the same level of credibility.


Well if you say so......

Not everyone believes that - since you insist so much that God is what you interpret him to be, suck that up. But, you're just disregarding the countless amount of times God/Jesus have said who is being sent (emphasis on sent) to hell and who isn't.


Well...I believe that it is a consequence of your actions. Now if not everyone believes it...what can I do about it?


Aren't Christians not supposed to be so judgemental? And stop being so ambiguous - what have these people with so many fans and admirers done that is so morally wrong?

A)No one is supposed to be judgemental. It's like you're putting Christians to higher expectations....interesting.
B) Just as I've already mentioned I'm a Christian not a saint.
C) And yes, you know these people I'm talking about, they like um turn a whole class of students against a particular student just because her beliefs are not like the majority's or because she dresses 'weird' or because her dad is 'strange', they bully her verbally, emotionally etc etc. I hope this shuts you up. Don't blab before you know the whole story pls. And anyway, I'm not obliged to tell YOU anything.....I don't know Jack Squat about you...you could be the 2nd Jack the Ripper for all I know.

Modest as well...

I was just joking. You have no sense of humour apparently. If you are going to attack me because I said that, then it's because you can't find a valid reason to do so.


"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Are you quoting from a book you don't even believe in? And anyway, if I'm being judgemental towards these people, embers is being judgemental towards me because I'm being judgemental...so that kills your argument (if you could call yours an argument......)

[Perseus]

Are you quoting from a book you don't even believe in? And anyway, if I'm being judgemental towards these people, embers is being judgemental towards me because I'm being judgemental...so that kills your argument (if you could call yours an argument......)

It's what you believe. And you don't know what I believe. I haven't refuted anything from you except the law that you misquoted. It doesn't matter if I don't believe it or not and bring it up, it's what you believe. It's in the New Testament.

[Efflorescence]

It's what you believe. And you don't know what I believe. I haven't refuted anything from you except the law that you misquoted. It doesn't matter if I don't believe it or not and bring it up, it's what you believe. It's in the New Testament.

So you also think I'm stupid because you're telling me that it was from the New Testament as if I didn't know. And I have my own reasons for being 'judgemental'...reasons which I'm not obliged to tell you.
Besides, I'm not perfect and my goal on this planet is not to please you. Thank you for your comment.

[embers]

Well if you say so......

Okay then, what does give Catholicism any more credibility than Mayan religious beliefs?

Well...I believe that it is a consequence of your actions. Now if not everyone believes it...what can I do about it?

Look - all I'm trying to do here is to encourage looking at your faith from a rational perspective. I always find that there's this massive gap in people's rationality when it comes down to their faith. I'm not saying that necessarily makes them 'stupid' or 'bad' people, just that people need to adopt more logical perspectives in life, because that is what helps you progress through your life safely.

C) And yes, you know these people I'm talking about, they like um turn a whole class of students against a particular student just because her beliefs are not like the majority's or because she dresses 'weird' or because her dad is 'strange', they bully her verbally, emotionally etc etc. I hope this shuts you up. Don't blab before you know the whole story pls. And anyway, I'm not obliged to tell YOU anything.....I don't know Jack Squat about you...you could be the 2nd Jack the Ripper for all I know.

I didn't 'blab'. I asked you to specify the people you were talking about because you were being very vague. I'll admit, there is an incredible amount of bullshit one has to suffer in teenage life - that doesn't mean you look to someone to condemn them to hell for it. Teenagers are naive. It happens. Now I'm not saying that applies to whatever situation you may be in because I don't know it.

Also, thanks, I'll take that assumption into account and keep you in mind when I'm glueing my next victim's fingernails to my boner.

And anyway, if I'm being judgemental towards these people, embers is being judgemental towards me because I'm being judgemental...

When was I being judgemental? As I said, all I'm trying to do is encourage rational discourse in terms of faith, but clearly neither I nor anybody else on this forum can get that point across to people. It's exactly what's happened through the 100+ pages of this thread and I don't know why people fucking bother anymore.

Approach a debate with open-mindedness. Sure, there's a couple of people here who're tired of seeing the same things put forth in this thread and thus there's an abundance of sarcasm (i'll admit it comes from me too). But don't let their closed-mindedness affect how you approach your argument, and don't let it get to you. I'm not being judgemental, I'm trying to debate.

[Perseus]

So you also think I'm stupid because you're telling me that it was from the New Testament as if I didn't know. And I have my own reasons for being 'judgemental'...reasons which I'm not obliged to tell you.
Besides, I'm not perfect and my goal on this planet is not to please you. Thank you for your comment.

I never called you nor do I think you're stupid. Calm down. If you take things personally, don't debate. And I would think Jesus would want you to follow his teachings as well as God. Only He can judge people.

[Efflorescence]

Okay then, what does give Catholicism any more credibility than Mayan religious beliefs?

Well I find believing in goblins and bush spirits a bit...um....how shall I put it? A bit like believing in Santa and the tooth fairy. A bit too primitive. But for me, the idea of a God with whom you can have a personal relationship and who 'set the ball rolling' so to speak, makes sense. Besides, there are also cases of people who have had apparitions (Our Lady of fatima) which I also decide to take into consideration. But even through their own primitive religion, I believe that Mayans are searching for God, for the Creator.



Look - all I'm trying to do here is to encourage looking at your faith from a rational perspective. I always find that there's this massive gap in people's rationality when it comes down to their faith. I'm not saying that necessarily makes them 'stupid' or 'bad' people, just that people need to adopt more logical perspectives in life, because that is what helps you progress through your life safely.


I apply logic to a lot of things but not to everything. I think that the main difference here is that some think that you can apply logic to everything and others don't. That's what I'm seeing here from this thread.
For example (I know that this may sound like bullcrap to you but.....) if you apply logic to love, trust and even faith, you'll kill them. How do you apply logic to love?
It's not that I don't ask questions...I constantly do... but I feel that this world couldn't have been created out of nothing and when it ends, it again goes to nothing. I just don't. And although I have read the Bible and I do not dismiss it....I prefer living my religion...helping the poor etc.

I didn't 'blab'. I asked you to specify the people you were talking about because you were being very vague. I'll admit, there is an incredible amount of bullshit one has to suffer in teenage life - that doesn't mean you look to someone to condemn them to hell for it. Teenagers are naive. It happens. Now I'm not saying that applies to whatever situation you may be in because I don't know it.

Also, thanks, I'll take that assumption into account and keep you in mind when I'm glueing my next victim's fingernails to my boner.?


I didn't say they were going to hell.... who am I to say that?.....I'm saying that at times I would have like to see them rot in hell:).......I'm not perfect...far from it and I'm not afraid to show it.
And the part about Jack the Ripper..um I overdid it a bit there, sorry.:)
I know that I was being hard but it's not easy having the whole world against you..I mean when I came here it was like HELL....and I mean why are all people here atheists? Why is backtobackawesome the only (poor I must admit) Christian on a thread entitled 'Religion'? It's a bit ironic don't you think?:(


I never called you nor do I think you're stupid. Calm down. If you take things personally, don't debate. And I would think Jesus would want you to follow his teachings as well as God. Only He can judge people.

I know what Jesus would want but again, I'm not perfect. My religion is hard I admit...loving your 'enemies' as though they were your friends is no joke. I try but fail...yes I have weaknesses.

[Angel Androgynous]

Well I find believing in goblins and bush spirits a bit...um....how shall I put it? A bit like believing in Santa and the tooth fairy. A bit too primitive.

You can't dis-prove Goblins or Bush spirits! Why don't we all believe in them? You know... have FAITH.
You can't dis-prove unicorns to me!


Oh... HAH that's right... humans made unicorns and mermaids up....


I wonder what else we made up...
*coughReligioncough*

[Efflorescence]

Are you agnostic? If it's personal don't tell me......

[Angel Androgynous]

Are you agnostic? If it's personal don't tell me......

Agnostic atheist, yes, yes I am. (Why would it be personal? xD)

[Efflorescence]

You can't dis-prove Goblins or Bush spirits! Why don't we all believe in them? You know... have FAITH.
You can't dis-prove unicorns to me!


Oh... HAH that's right... humans made unicorns and mermaids up....


I wonder what else we made up...
*coughReligioncough*

Well, God has a bible/qu'ran whatever that you can refer to with multitudes of scientists and people from all the world trying to prove its non-existence/existence, plus living witnesses to say that God had been present in their lives.

And the other doesn't.


And by your question you're also attacking agnostics because by your reasoning, if they are agnostics to God because he's not knowable, then they should be agnostics to unicorns and mermaids too. Good job.

[Angel Androgynous]

Well, God has a bible/qu'ran whatever that you can refer to with multitudes of scientists and people from all the world trying to prove its non-existence/existence, plus living witnesses to say that God had been present in their lives.

And the other doesn't.


And by your question you're also attacking agnostics because by your reasoning, if they are agnostics to God because he's not knowable, then they should be agnostics to unicorns and mermaids too. Good job.

Mm I was more referring to your views on polytheism. How about the thousands of stories and Greek mythology that were passed on from generation to generation? Also, some of the historical aspects of the bible (the kings, queens, etc) can be proven... but for a dude to live over 400 years (especially back in those times) and build an arc and somehow have all the animals fit on there while the whole earth floods... now we can safely assume that that's (respectively) a bunch of baloney, and there is science against that story. Also, like I said... unicorns and mermaids were made up by humans, just like religion. The only difference is that God is like Santa Claus for grown ups.

Also, the bible was written by... guess who?




Humans.

[Maxxie]

Definition of reality:

'In philosophy, reality is the state of things as they actually exist, rather than as they may appear or might be imagined.[1] In a wider definition, reality includes everything that is and has been, whether or not it is observable or comprehensible'. A still more broad definition includes everything that has existed, exists, or will exist, not just in the mind, or even more broadly also including what is only in the mind.


It seems as though you have a laughably narrow-minded view of reality and IT"S STUPID.

How is stating that everything that exists, regardless of our perception, a laughably narrow-minded viewpoint. Just because things have more words doesn't mean that they're more valid.

[embers]

Well I find believing in goblins and bush spirits a bit...um....how shall I put it? A bit like believing in Santa and the tooth fairy. A bit too primitive. But for me, the idea of a God with whom you can have a personal relationship and who 'set the ball rolling' so to speak, makes sense. Besides, there are also cases of people who have had apparitions (Our Lady of fatima) which I also decide to take into consideration. But even through their own primitive religion, I believe that Mayans are searching for God, for the Creator.

Goblins and bush spirits? Just what do you think the Mayans believed in? They believed in deities, just like Hindus. Again, there's Hindus who have apparitions of Krishna, Muslims apparitions of Muhammed, and the list goes on. You cannot take those firsthand experiences as anything credible.

I apply logic to a lot of things but not to everything. I think that the main difference here is that some think that you can apply logic to everything and others don't. That's what I'm seeing here from this thread.
For example (I know that this may sound like bullcrap to you but.....) if you apply logic to love, trust and even faith, you'll kill them. How do you apply logic to love?
It's not that I don't ask questions...I constantly do... but I feel that this world couldn't have been created out of nothing and when it ends, it again goes to nothing. I just don't. And although I have read the Bible and I do not dismiss it....I prefer living my religion...helping the poor etc.

Love: Extreme emotional attachment. You don't behave rationally or logically when you're in love, but the thing itself is an emotion, it can be epxlained.

Trust: You logically presume (not assume) that a close friend or whatever is telling the truth because of the bond ('love') between you, or something similar.

Faith: It's illogical. You're believing in something, in this case metaphysical, without any credibility (personal accounts don't count; that includes the New Testament).

As for the Big Bang, we can predict what happened up to 10 ^ 43 seconds after it. It's a truth. You can go ahead and say God did it, but there's no basis for that.

Why is backtobackawesome the only (poor I must admit) Christian on a thread entitled 'Religion'? It's a bit ironic don't you think?:(

On the contrary, most people here are Christians. They just don't start debating.

Well, God has a bible/qu'ran whatever that you can refer to with multitudes of scientists and people from all the world trying to prove its non-existence/existence, plus living witnesses to say that God had been present in their lives.

And the other doesn't.

There's been no ground covered in proving he exists apart from personal testimonies that don't mean 'jack squat'.

[Perseus]

Well, God has a bible/qu'ran whatever that you can refer to with multitudes of scientists and people from all the world trying to prove its non-existence/existence, plus living witnesses to say that God had been present in their lives.

If you were to look at Greek/Roman or Norse Mythology, the gods in those beliefs had more interaction with humans than does the Christian, etc. god does. What makes them any less valid than yours? Those religions had more interaction.

[Maxxie]

You can't dis-prove Goblins or Bush spirits! Why don't we all believe in them? You know... have FAITH.
You can't dis-prove unicorns to me!


Oh... HAH that's right... humans made unicorns and mermaids up....


I wonder what else we made up...
*coughReligioncough*

I personally believe that a Sumerian war god that was shaped and formed and regurgitated by the powers of good that was (and IS) Ahura Mazda is part of a trinity of Ultimate Divinity, the three of which are said Sumerian war god, A figure of redemption characterized by Horus and other redeeming figures (especially those descended from Aryan and other Caucasian belief systems), and the Undying Spirit of said Sumerian war god. This Trinity has existed since the dawn of time, which could be anywhere from 14.3 billion years ago to a mere 6,000 (it is another one of HIS divine mysteries), and has influenced the human race in ways unimaginable, the most particular of which is taking a certain people as his own (under their forefather, a man named Raham) and smiting all who got in his way (unless, of course, his people don't please him. Then he sends them into slavery and captivity). After this, he sent the redeeming figure (a man from the Levant, also an embodiment of; BUT SEPARATE FROM; the Sumerian war god) to save everyone on planet earth.

Sound familiar?

[Angel Androgynous]

Looks like we're back in business!

[Maxxie]

Ehh.... for tonight. I got grounded - and this is the one night she's letting me on the computer.

[Apparitions]

I was just joking. You have no sense of humour apparently. If you are going to attack me because I said that, then it's because you can't find a valid reason to do so.
Oh dear :lol: . I'm sure the nice men in white coats will soon be along to help to escort you back to that lovely mental place that you've obviously escaped from. Maybe while you're there, they'll have a go at freeing you from your delusions (you know, the "there is a God and he's perfect and everything and he does exist which I'm certain of, even though I've never seen him nor seen one piece of evidence that he does exist. If you say otherwise you're wrong because the Bible and the priest said so. Also, he has a son that died but came back even though that is impossible and I'm going to heaven while all those nasty Atheist folk burn in hell..." delusion).

[music is my soul]

Wtf.

[Efflorescence]

Goblins and bush spirits? Just what do you think the Mayans believed in? They believed in deities, just like Hindus. Again, there's Hindus who have apparitions of Krishna, Muslims apparitions of Muhammed, and the list goes on. You cannot take those firsthand experiences as anything credible.

Here we are not talking about Muhammed. We're talking about God. And for your info, Krishna is the Supreme Being of the Hindus: their God. And yes the Mayans do believe in bush spirits and goblins, yes.


Love: Extreme emotional attachment. You don't behave rationally or logically when you're in love, but the thing itself is an emotion, it can be explained.

Trust: You logically presume (not assume) that a close friend or whatever is telling the truth because of the bond ('love') between you, or something similar.

Faith: It's illogical. You're believing in something, in this case metaphysical, without any credibility (personal accounts don't count; that includes the New Testament).


Personal accounts don't count....says you...it's not that I have blind faith and believe freakin everything like you're trying to imply...but for me PERSONAL accounts count as I consider myself to have a PERSONAL relationship with God.

And by the way with love, trust and faith I forgot to add forgiveness. Try explaining that one for me. It's the most unnatural/illogical thing in the world but it's done, dear and it exists. It's not a feeling but a choice like trust.

As for the Big Bang, we can predict what happened up to 10 ^ 43 seconds after it. It's a truth. You can go ahead and say God did it, but there's no basis for that.).


But there must have been a '0' start. And what was before that?

On the contrary, most people here are Christians. They just don't start debating.

Oh yes, have you ever wondered why is that? Just look at the first sentence that 'apparitions' has said. Now I know why Christians do not come here. I shouldn't have been FOOLISH enough to come here and be INSULTED.

There's been no ground covered in proving he exists apart from personal testimonies that don't mean 'jack squat'.

And there's been no ground covered in proving he doesn't exist except from your 'NON-testimony' that doesn't mean 'jack squat' to me. No offence.


If you were to look at Greek/Roman or Norse Mythology, the gods in those beliefs had more interaction with humans than does the Christian, etc. god does. What makes them any less valid than yours? Those religions had more interaction.


If you want to believe that there are 'gods' acting like 3-year olds or making half immortal babies or jealous of humanity, it's up to you.




Oh dear :lol: . I'm sure the nice men in white coats will soon be along to help to escort you back to that lovely mental place that you've obviously escaped from. Maybe while you're there, they'll have a go at freeing you from your delusions (you know, the "there is a God and he's perfect and everything and he does exist which I'm certain of, even though I've never seen him nor seen one piece of evidence that he does exist. If you say otherwise you're wrong because the Bible and the priest said so. Also, he has a son that died but came back even though that is impossible and I'm going to heaven while all those nasty Atheist folk burn in hell..." delusion).

If you're going to insult me by telling me that I belong in a mental hospital and other offensive SHIT you're evidently so good at spewing, I will deny your fuckin comments just as I deny your atheism. One can only take so much SHIT. Bye.

[Maxxie]

Well, confusion, there's no need to get on a high horse and get so pissed off because someone you insulted insulted you.

[Efflorescence]

Well, confusion, there's no need to get on a high horse and get so pissed off because someone you insulted insulted you.

Where did I insult him? I told him that he has no valid argument not that he belongs in a mental hospital! I attacked his argument not HIM! And telling him that he has no sense of humour is not the same as telling him that he belongs in a mental hospital. Imagine what would have happened if I said that to one of you atheists! You would have started again with the normal 'Because you Christians treat us badly and you think we're going to hell...bla bla bla' drama but it's alright for an atheist to say that....because, um, because, because...just because. Jus admit that what he said is offensive instead of taking his side when you know that he shouldn't have said that.

[Apparitions]

Where did I insult him? I told him that he has no valid argument not that he belongs in a mental hospital! I attacked his argument not HIM! And telling him that he has no sense of humour is not the same as telling him that he belongs in a mental hospital. Imagine what would have happened if I said that to one of you atheists! You would have started again with the normal 'Because you Christians treat us badly and you think we're going to hell...bla bla bla' drama but it's alright for an atheist to say that....because, um, because, because...just because. Jus admit that what he said is offensive instead of taking his side when you know that he shouldn't have said that.
You didn't insult me, you just looked kind of stupid. Obviously I wasn't being serious when I implied that you weren't modest (if you had a brain/any kind of sense of humour you'd recognise this but then again you are a theist so I probably should have expected that). I said you were a mental because that's how you come across to me on this thread with your boring, rambling tl;dr posts. Again, stop being such a fucking crybaby, man the fuck up and stop being so serious. Instead of moaning, why not try and come up with some kind of witty retort?


Anyway, /argument. Let's get back to business. I read a very good post on religion on a football (soccer to you...) forum I go on and I think that it could provide some good shit to debate on here. Click here (http://www.cpfc.org/forums/showpost.php?p=9782494&postcount=56) to read it (it's a bit long but well worth reading.)

[embers]

Here we are not talking about Muhammed. We're talking about God. And for your info, Krishna is the Supreme Being of the Hindus: their God. And yes the Mayans do believe in bush spirits and goblins, yes.

My bad about the bush spirits etc, however just because you don't want to believe things like those exist/existed doesn't mean they didn't and you're right and they're wrong because it seems 'primitive'. Also, you completely missed my point about Muhammed - Christians deny Muhammed as being a 'prophet', and they also deny the existence of more than one deity (as happens in Hinduism). If you're taking personal accounts of interactions with a God advocating Christianity, you're going to have to take personal accounts of people having interactions with Zeus, Shiva, Muhammed (who in the apparition advocates that Islam is true etc), and fucking Mayan bush spirits. You can't just ignore them because they contradict your faith.

That is essentially why you don't take personal eyewitness accounts as evidence. Because for every one that confirms your faith, there are many that contradict it.

Personal accounts don't count....says you...it's not that I have blind faith and believe freakin everything like you're trying to imply...but for me PERSONAL accounts count as I consider myself to have a PERSONAL relationship with God.

As above. Taking personal accounts as evidence of anything essentially means you should be susceptible to believing anything - alien abductions, Zeus, trolls, and yes, Mayan bush gods.

And by the way with love, trust and faith I forgot to add forgiveness. Try explaining that one for me. It's the most unnatural/illogical thing in the world but it's done, dear and it exists. It's not a feeling but a choice like trust.

Nope, it can be logical. You can assume that somebody's thought process goes along the lines of: holding a grudge against somebody for something they did for your lifetime is a strain on your lifestyle. It negatively affects the way you think and how you feel towards other people. To let the emotion go is to acknowledge that holding a grudge is irrational and will only negatively affect you.

But there must have been a '0' start. And what was before that?

Where were you before you were born? It's hard to comprehend the concept of 'nothing' (or almost nothing) because it's not something the human mind is able to observe. However, the scientific evidence points to there being a singularity - things before that are currently impossible to predict and irrelevant regardless.

And there's been no ground covered in proving he doesn't exist except from your 'NON-testimony' that doesn't mean 'jack squat' to me. No offence.

Burden of proof lies on people who make the claim that God exists to prove that he does. We don't need to prove that God doesn't exist like we don't need to prove that Mayan bush spirits, Zeus, Krishna and a floating invisible horse orbiting our atmosphere don't.

If you want to believe that there are 'gods' acting like 3-year olds or making half immortal babies or jealous of humanity, it's up to you.

As it is up to you to believe that there was once a God who murdered children, committed genocide as well as acted completely irrationally before sending an incarnation of himself down to contradict the previous laws he set down to save people from sin he originally condemned them to, then go ahead. That is how I see it, and that is why I reject religion - contradictions, things that don't add up, and a lack of proof.

Faith is illogical - now I don't care whether you have it or not, but if somebody tries to push it on me, I will tell them everything that is wrong with them. Not saying you are, but just stating my view.

[Magus]

As above. Taking personal accounts as evidence of anything essentially means you should be susceptible to believing anything - alien abductions, Zeus, trolls, and yes, Mayan bush gods.Anecdotal evidence is my favourite argument.

Hey Confusion. I saw Zeus the other day, and he told me that Jesus does not exist. WHERE IS YOUR JESUS NOW?


Burden of proof lies on people who make the claim that God exists to prove that he does. We don't need to prove that God doesn't exist like we don't need to prove that Mayan bush spirits, Zeus, Krishna and a floating invisible horse orbiting our atmosphere don't.Let him prove the non-existence or disprove the existence of an invisible zombie that's in my room.

[Angel Androgynous]

B-b-but FARIS! Isis came to me and told me that Zeus is an untrustworthy manwhore! It was PERSONAL! I had my FAITH in her! Then Horus came and called Hera a bitch. It's on, man...it's on...



By the way, I know it's a late reply, but when I said that you can't dis-prove goblins to me.... I was attacking your argument of: "God is real because you can't dis-prove him to me." The fact remains that humans invented religion.... what if the Greeks were right? What if the Egyptians were right? (With their many gods?) What if the atheists are right? Then you just spent you whole life praying to the wrong gods... or you just spent your life believing in something that isn't there.... remember: you BELIEVE in God... you don't KNOW that there is a God.

[Maxxie]

B-b-but FARIS! Isis came to me and told me that Zeus is an untrustworthy manwhore! It was PERSONAL! I had my FAITH in her! Then Horus came and called Hera a bitch. It's on, man...it's on...

I think Loki might have had a part in all that.

[Perseus]

If you want to believe that there are 'gods' acting like 3-year olds or making half immortal babies or jealous of humanity, it's up to you.







Oh, I forgot, the Holy Spirit impregnating a woman makes much more sense.

[Maxxie]

Oh, I forgot, the Holy Spirit impregnating a woman makes much more sense.

Yahweh has emotions just like us humans! He just gets horny sometimes.

[Angel Androgynous]

The Virgin Mary.... might have sucked a dick or two in high school....

[Maxxie]

I'm going to pose a question, though.

Why did God have those draconic laws that Jesus needed to abolish in the first place? That, above almost all, seems ridiculous. The only reason the Pharisees and the Sanhedrin persecuted him was because he was going AGAINST every single blasted law prescribed to them by God (through Moses). So, instead of going "Oh, this is bad" and retconning history, or simply using his almighty Will to change the laws and the stances of Pharisees/Sanhedrin, he had to send Jesus of Nazereth to die in such an agonizing way for our sins, even though that was proper protocol for blasphemers and impersonators of God.

And Jesus wasn't the only one who died on a cross. If you will remember the 2.000 crucified in Tyre by Alexander III of Macedon for simply resisting conquest, the (probably) millions crucified for standing up for their people by the Roman Empire. Hell, crucifixion was COMMON until Constantine abolished it in 337 AD. If we're all God's children, what makes Jesus special?

[Genghis Khan]

I'm going to pose a question, though.

Why did God have those draconic laws that Jesus needed to abolish in the first place?

He just suddenly decided he'll be more considerate, because we all know it makes sense to go from sending bears to maul children to fucking a virgin in order to give birth to yourself and go through a shit load of pain just so you can forgive everyone else for it later on.

But really, the answers people will give you for that are along the lines of 'it's the Old Testament and we don't believe that was the same God' which again is flawed, or 'he was angry with all the sinning, corruption, animosity and our carelessness, so on, henceforth it was failure after failure after failure after failure that he decided he'll come down in human form to save people. That, by human sacrifice too.

The Virgin Mary.... might have sucked a dick or two in high school....

ballsackreligious

[TheMatrix]

Let's keep this calm, okay?

Okay.

[Vonn]

[...] but for me PERSONAL accounts count as I consider myself to have a PERSONAL relationship with God.

This was a bit back, but I'm just curious. What does it even mean to have a personal relationship with God? We've gone through the whole "you can't prove/disprove his existence" gobbledygook, so how can you have a personal relationship with a being who you're only defending with a "prove he doesn't exist"?

[Angel Androgynous]

This was a bit back, but I'm just curious. What does it even mean to have a personal relationship with God? We've gone through the whole "you can't prove/disprove his existence" gobbledygook, so how can you have a personal relationship with a being who you're only defending with a "prove he doesn't exist"?

I have a personal relationship with the unicorn in my closet...

[Efflorescence]

You didn't insult me, you just looked kind of stupid. Obviously I wasn't being serious when I implied that you weren't modest (if you had a brain/any kind of sense of humour you'd recognise this but then again you are a theist so I probably should have expected that). I said you were a mental because that's how you come across to me on this thread with your boring, rambling tl;dr posts. Again, stop being such a fucking crybaby, man the fuck up and stop being so serious. Instead of moaning, why not try and come up with some kind of witty retort?


Anyway, /argument. Let's get back to business. I read a very good post on religion on a football (soccer to you...) forum I go on and I think that it could provide some good shit to debate on here. Click here (http://www.cpfc.org/forums/showpost.php?p=9782494&postcount=56) to read it (it's a bit long but well worth reading.)



First of all it's football to me as well. Second of all, it's better to come up with rambling boring posts than to come up with idiotic, rude, judgemental shit which has no fuckin sense at all(like you do), IDIOT. You give atheists a bad name. But then again I'm wasting time with you.


And another thing. If you want to believe in Zeus etc, DO SO by all means. Greek/norse mythology was there to provide explanations for things that we can now explain by science. However, the Bible is not there to try to explain how lightning happens. There is that God created the world in 7 days. Did he? WHO CARES? The bible is NOT a geographical/historical/cultural book. It is a religious book, the religious message is important. Other elements aside from the religious message are trivial and can be ignored.

And another thing, I've noted that here on this site, agnostics and atheists group together. MA che MERDA e questa? Atheists and agnostics are not the same. Agnostics are supposed to be in between; their beliefs are neither like those who form part of religion (Christianity, Islam etc) nor those who practise atheism. And another thing, you think that only Christianity has denominations. In a way even 'agnosticism' has denominations if you want. There are 'agnostic theists' , 'agnostic atheists', just 'agnostics'. So tell me, which one of them is true?


And again, if there's no difference between Zeus, zombies and God, then agnostics, those who neither believe nor disbelieve there is a God, should also be agnostics to zombies and Zeus. Why don't you go and ask someone who neither believes nor disbelieves there is a God, why he is agnostic to God but not to unicorns? There's no need to ask me when you can ask one of your FELLOW agnostics.

And anyway, this to all of you: I didn't read half of all your posts. All you do is offend and spew shit. Do what you want. Your life.........you can do whatever you fuckin want. If you want to be atheist, agnostic, christian, suck dicks, GO AHEAD. Nothing changes for me. Whether you're atheists or anything else makes absolutely NO DIFFERENCE to me. I mean, do what you want man. Who cares? It was a mistake to come involved in a debate where I try to prove something to someone when I don't need to prove anything to anyone for my life and my beliefs. When, really and truly I don't give a fuck about what you think about my religion.

[Maxxie]

@ Confusion

Now you're succeeding in making yourself look like an arse. Which, last time I checked, isn't a good think. Settle down, I know this stuff gets fiery, but there's no need to continue a flame war - it's only going to get worse as it continues.

But, referring to the general gist of your post, the bible is there to explain how things occurred aswell. The Creation, the Fall, the Flood... all explained. Language? Got that too. The Promised Land? Yup. All religion is an explaination no matter how you look at it.

And agnosticism is a way of thought, not a religion. If you're an agnostic theist, that's the thing - you aren't CONVICTED in your beliefs that there is a God. Agnosticism is simply the belief that we cannot know the metaphysical. Atheism is a disbelief in the metaphysical. There are no denominations, only tendencies towards one way or the other, and none of us claim to each other "Oh, hey, Agnostic Atheism is better because it's RIGHT" because none of our "denominations" are diametrically opposed, hell - they're basically all the same, with some semantics thrown in.

[Genghis Khan]

And anyway, this to all of you: I didn't read half of all your posts.

That's probably why no one took you seriously.

[embers]

First of all it's football to me as well. Second of all, it's better to come up with rambling boring posts than to come up with idiotic, rude, judgemental shit which has no fuckin sense at all(like you do), IDIOT. You give atheists a bad name. But then again I'm wasting time with you.

How about you ignore incendiary posts and address ones with more debatable substance, then. You seem to have completely ignored my long response to your previous post.

And another thing. If you want to believe in Zeus etc, DO SO by all means. Greek/norse mythology was there to provide explanations for things that we can now explain by science.

Irrelevant, the Greek gods still existed in the mythology. I wasn't talking about the 'explanations' as much as the deities involved. I mean, obviously the Bible also tries to explain things (creation of modern humans) that are now explained completely by science, but that is a 'matter of interpretation' now that we've grown up - god forbid that the greek mythology too is a matter of interpretation!

However, the Bible is not there to try to explain how lightning happens.

It attempts to provide an explanation for the origin of man that is ever increasingly likely to be wrong.

There is that God created the world in 7 days. Did he? WHO CARES? The bible is NOT a geographical/historical/cultural book.

Inconsistencies in the Bible lessen its credibility. If the Bible was the inspired word of God, it wouldn't have all these inconsistencies.

Who says it isn't a historical book? You? All it seems to be is desert scribblings followed by the testimonies of people about things Jesus did. If it attempts to explain history as truth as well as explain religion, then we have to take it as an attempt to describe history. What you don't seem to understand is that you can't just ignore inconsistencies in a book that dictates your morality and daily lifestyle because they seem to contradict with logical facts and focus on an 'interpretation' of it that only arose because its 'literal' side was proven wrong.

Seriously, get on with your life. It may seem harsh to say so, but clinging desperately to a book with as many inconsistencies and as much incorrectness as the Bible just isn't worth it.

It is a religious book, the religious message is important. Other elements aside from the religious message are trivial and can be ignored.

Why?

And another thing, I've noted that here on this site, agnostics and atheists group together. MA che MERDA e questa? Atheists and agnostics are not the same. Agnostics are supposed to be in between; their beliefs are neither like those who form part of religion (Christianity, Islam etc) nor those who practise atheism. And another thing, you think that only Christianity has denominations. In a way even 'agnosticism' has denominations if you want. There are 'agnostic theists' , 'agnostic atheists', just 'agnostics'. So tell me, which one of them is true?

Agnosticism isn't a religious belief (or lack thereof). It's more of a description, like Maxxie said. People confuse agnosticism with an 'in the middle, I ain't saying it doesn't exist but I'm not saying it does'. That, in essence, is actually atheism (or 'weak atheism'), which accounts for most atheists. The only belief that actually asserts that there is NO god is 'strong atheism' - I don't think you'll find many strong atheists here, although the user 'standardstate' on govteen is a pretty prominent strong atheist.

Agnosticism is actually the belief that you can never prove or disprove the existence of a metaphysical entity/god. Then you get agnostic theists, who say you cannot prove that he exists but they believe he does, and agnostic atheists, who say you cannot prove he exists but they don't believe he does (they're similar to weak atheists in that they use rational discourse and occham's razor).

And again, if there's no difference between Zeus, zombies and God, then agnostics, those who neither believe nor disbelieve there is a God, should also be agnostics to zombies and Zeus. Why don't you go and ask someone who neither believes nor disbelieves there is a God, why he is agnostic to God but not to unicorns? There's no need to ask me when you can ask one of your FELLOW agnostics.

You're painting yourself as ignorant here. Zombies are a less credible theory than God because through our knowledge of how the human body functions we can logically assume that being a 'zombie' technically isn't possible (but I don't know much about that, so I'll leave it there). Again, I'll substitute 'agnostics' for 'atheists' here and say that people who believe in ghosts, unicorns, zombies, and Zeus rather than God are idiots in their own right, especially if they too are atheists. If you use rational discourse to justify disbelief in a deity then it too should be your reasoning for whether or not you believe in unicorns or ghosts.

Ghosts is a quite different debate - there was a thread here a while back in which Sage destroyed arguments for ghosts time and time again, I suggest you read it.

And anyway, this to all of you: I didn't read half of all your posts. All you do is offend and spew shit. Do what you want. Your life.........you can do whatever you fuckin want. If you want to be atheist, agnostic, christian, suck dicks, GO AHEAD. Nothing changes for me. Whether you're atheists or anything else makes absolutely NO DIFFERENCE to me. I mean, do what you want man. Who cares? It was a mistake to come involved in a debate where I try to prove something to someone when I don't need to prove anything to anyone for my life and my beliefs. When, really and truly I don't give a fuck about what you think about my religion.

If you really take a debate this personally then I suggest you either don't debate or chill your fucking beans, bro. It's the internet, don't let yourself become so worked up. People may spew condescending shit but don't think that 1. they are entirely at fault and 2. you should take it personally.

Besides, if you didn't read my post or any other valid ones then I don't even know why I fucking bothered replying.

[Asim]

I am a jedi

[Apparitions]

I am a jedi
Repped for best post on this thread...

[Magus]

Repped for best post on this thread...Actually, there are few others before him wrote that.