Why shouldn't there be Gay Marriage

[Delusion15]

I have debated with many people and gay marriage always seems to be the topic that surprises me the most. I have heard a lot of arguments but i have never heard one that actually made you know sense. I was wondering if any one that opposed it had a reason that would make sense to a atheist.

People that want Gay marriage you can say something if you want :D

[Magus]

(petitio principii?)

Why should there be a Gay Marriage? In what way would it benefit the gay couple?

[Delusion15]

Why should there be a Gay Marriage? In what way would it benefit the gay couple?

Well there is the obvious tax reasons and usual things but it comes down to allowing gay couples the same rights that straight people do

"Carla and Miriam fell in love and decided to get married. Last summer they held a lavish ceremony on the coast. All of their friends and family attended. Carla’s dad, a minister, officiated. Miriam’s dad wrote and sang a special song. After the reception, the two headed off to their honeymoon.
When they returned, they felt like a married couple. They moved in together, opened their gifts and started talking about having a baby. Even though, the couple feels committed to each other, they have none of the legal rights that protect other married couples. If Carla becomes ill, Miriam is not guaranteed the right to be with her in the hospital. If Miriam dies, her distant nieces and nephews have more of a claim to her belongings than Carla does. They file “single” on their tax returns and are not allowed to be on each other’s health plans." http://lesbianlife.about.com/cs/wedding/a/lgmarriage.htm

Thats a nice little story to

[myskias]

thats so sad :/ its like. if your true love was dieing in a hospital bed but you are not allowed to go and see them :'(

[Iron Man]

I am completely for gay marriage. They should have all of the same benefits that straight couples have. If they want respect, they should get it. If they want to be boring like straight couples, let them.

[CaliKid24]

it should be marriage for all or no marriage for anyone. i believe in equality for everyone.

[starrburst]

I'm all for gay marrige..kill all the basterds that don't agree ...
Why should gay couples be frowned upon? Surely, if it was the president who was gay they'd let him marry...

[Jamie]

I was wondering if any one that opposed it had a reason that would make sense to a atheist.
I'm still waiting to hear Julia Gillard's better reasoning for this.

[Jess]

I have nothing against gay marriage. gender should not matter. gay couples should have the same rights as straight couples.

[Sage]

kill all the basterds that don't agree ...
Woah man. That's not cool.

Why should gay couples be frowned upon? Surely, if it was the president who was gay they'd let him marry...
No they wouldn't. It's not recognized as a valid marriage by law, and I don't see why they'd make an exception for the president. Though to be fair, by the time we see a gay president, it will probably already have been legalized everywhere.

Myself? I think marriage on the whole is dumb, but it's a bond that comes with certain legal rights, and I'm all for anyone, regardless of gender, having access to those rights.

[Skeln]

What's the point of marriage? Does it benefit a couple in any way? They can still live together and do whatever they want. It does not open up any new rights to the couple, and in the end it's just pointless. Can someone please state the exact reason for marriage? I think I know it but I'm not posative so I would like the exact definition. In fact, I'll look it up.

[Skeln]

Note: there is no legal point to marriage! It gives no benefits, and it does not allow for anything. It's just a pointless ceremony that is not necessary. Some think it brings couples closer together, but in reality that's just a psuedo affect and yeah I see no point. So someone gets married, they have a party. That's it. I personally have no true standing when it comes to this situation but I think I'll play the devil's advocate.

[Sage]

It does not open up any new rights to the couple, and in the end it's just pointless.

there is no legal point to marriage! It gives no benefits, and it does not allow for anything.

Congratulations! You know abso-fucking-lutely nothing about marriage.

Click. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_responsibilities_of_marriages_in_the_United_States#Rights_and_benefit s)

[babyhottie]

thtz jst so unfair they shud see pplz equal weither u gay or str8 they shudnt make any difference and they shud give pplz the right 2 chose who they want 2 marry or spend their life with!!!!!!!

[Skeln]

Woops...next time I'll Wikipedia it before looking it up in the dictionary. My bad.

So there are alot of extra rights in marriage. Then I would support it. Based on what I have been told (teachers, grandparents, friends, etc.) and what it said in the dictionary, there didn't seem to be any true point to marriage.

Thanks for breaking it to me easily.

[babyhottie]

thtz unfair y cnt gay pplz chose hu they want 2 be with and hu they want 2 marry or spend their life with y do they treat pplz in a different way gay pplz r humans to!!! they got feelings and they got hearts so y dnt they just make the same law 4 gay pplz and str8 pplz y do they care????? itz not their life!

[Sage]

So there are alot of extra rights in marriage. Then I would support it. Based on what I have been told (teachers, grandparents, friends, etc.) and what it said in the dictionary, there didn't seem to be any true point to marriage.

From a social standpoint I would agree that marriage is a stupid, antiquated institution that doesn't prove anything to anyone. Legally, however, it gives numerous rights and benefits to the couple involved, and so I feel these rights must extend to all citizens.

[Skeln]

Yeah I have to admit I never knew anything about these rights. Now that I know about them, it's completely changed my whole standpoint on the matter. I was never truely pro or against before, but now I have seen the error in my ways. Thank you.

[karl]

Gay marriage is legal in Spain

[Sith Lord 13]

How about scraping marriage as a legal institution on the whole, and giving anyone civil unions? That'd work.

Leave marriage to religion, and let civil unions convey all the rights legal marriages do now.

[Skeln]

^^ Great idea. Would solve the whole issue of the legal rights, but then the whole religious morality would cause a huge uproar.

[Death]

Thing is though, religious texts condemn a shitload of things (even long hair and picking up sticks on a Sunday is included). There may as well be another thing happening with which they disagree.

[MisterE]

im in canada, and i acctuly have no clue about if its legal or not here, i woulnt have a prob with it, oviously! ahah

[The Dark Lord]

Gay marriage is legal in Spain

Well Done!

I don't think there is much point in any marriage, if two people love each other then surely a piece of paper telling them that is meaningless?

[Insanity Fair]

Well Done!

I don't think there is much point in any marriage, if two people love each other then surely a piece of paper telling them that is meaningless?

The piece of paper is more recent. It's more of a tradition/ritual. They throw a celebration and say vows to each other. It offers security.(or it used to)

[The Dark Lord]

The piece of paper is more recent. It's more of a tradition/ritual. They throw a celebration and say vows to each other. It offers security.(or it used to)

Yeah I know what the piece of paper does, I just don't believe in it.

[Insanity Fair]

Yeah I know what the piece of paper does, I just don't believe in it.

Good luck finding a girl that believes the same.

[IanMilo]

Personally If I were in the situation I would just hold a ceremony with a minister friend and do the whole wedding anyway, legal marriage is nothing, just a paper. The real bond is between said lovers

[pageplant77]

I oppose gay marriage. Primarily based on the fact that I don't believe in gayness..

[CaliKid24]

I oppose gay marriage. Primarily based on the fact that I don't believe in gayness..

Are u Against gays? Or do u just believe they don't exist??

[The Dark Lord]

I oppose gay marriage. Primarily based on the fact that I don't believe in gayness..

The term is homosexuality and why don't you believe in it?

Good luck finding a girl that believes the same.

I really don't think everyone believes in marriage

[Death]

I oppose gay marriage. Primarily based on the fact that I don't believe in gayness..

You don't believe in "gayness"? Are you being sarcastic? Because there's no way someone could be stupid enough to post something like this.

[Sage]

I oppose gay marriage. Primarily based on the fact that I don't believe in gayness..

I'm going to second Death's sentiments. What are you going on about? Gayness isn't a word.

[Sasha]

Everyone deserves the same rights as everybody else

[karl]

I'm going to second Death's sentiments. What are you going on about? Gayness isn't a word.

Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary

Gayness - the state of being homosexual

Collins Cobuild English Language Dictionary

He wasn't ashamed of his gayness

[Death]

What he said was still stupid, since he said he didn't believe in it, when it clearly exists (otherwise there wouldn't be this so called "problem" in the first place).

[Antares]

Its because gays are an abomination and sinners. God hates fags.
And gay people try to press their gayness on everyone else and the US is TOTALLY not a gay country.
Therefore, gays shouldn't get married because otherwise all of the senators that emerge in Minneapolis bathrooms will get AIDS and die.

This was a joke, a bad one at that.

But I think gay marriage is basically a right. I think it is discriminatory and goes against the constitution to deny people the right to marry.

[justalovestruckteen]

Hmm I made two speaches for class once
one for gay marriage and one against it

Gay mariage increases the number of adoptions

but if they allow gay mairrage whats next? would they allow marrying shoes?

Im neither for or against it

[Disco Jones]

Look, it's not that I don't believe in a black man and a white woman marrying each other. It's simply that I don't want to mess with the definition of marriage. If we can't even protect our definitions, then is anything sacred?

If we allow interracial marriage, what's next? People of different class getting married? Different religions?

Look, a black man has the same right as everybody else: to marry a person of their own race.

[Sage]

but if they allow gay mairrage whats next? would they allow marrying shoes?


Slippery-slope logical fallacy. There's nothing to suggest that would ever follow.

[Peace God]

but if they allow gay mairrage whats next? would they allow marrying shoes?

as long as the shoes can properly consent

[Wetherbubble]

I think it dosent matter, ifther blocking the road singing were here and were quear, I'm going to say i'm strait and i'm late

[Sage]

ifther blocking the road singing were here and were quear, I'm going to say i'm strait and i'm late

What does this have to do with the debate? I don't follow your point.

[Death]

I think it dosent matter, ifther blocking the road singing were here and were quear, I'm going to say i'm strait and i'm late

Firstly, it's "queer" an "straight"; secondly, what exactly do you mean by this?

[Church]

I am against gay marriage, I'm all for gay relationships thats w/e, but marriage is between a man and a woman.

[Death]

^^Now why does the above not surprise me?

[Church]

'Cause your stereotyping me

[Death]

Ditto.

[Jamie]

'Cause your stereotyping me

Either a bad troll, or an idiot.

Derp bleep, i gotz mah confederate flag repping teh kansas even though it was a union state.

[Death]

^^I apologise if this sounds stupid, but are you referring to me or Church? Because if it's Church you're referring to, you are going to be in for one very long argument...

[Jamie]

^^I apologise if this sounds stupid, but are you referring to me or Church? Because if it's Church you're referring to, you are going to be in for one very long argument...
Church. I noticed shortly after replying that it may look like my post could be applied to you as well.

Also... I know. :P I've just replied in the Pledge of Allegiance thread.

[Death]

So I noticed. Anyway, thanks for the clarification.

[Church]

Either a bad troll, or an idiot.

Derp bleep, i gotz mah confederate flag repping teh kansas even though it was a union state.

I really hate people like you, y'all are complaining about me personally attacking people, fine I'll stop. How bout you stop insulting me and my heritage.

Y'all are just a bunch of hypocrites.

[The Dark Lord]

I am against gay marriage, I'm all for gay relationships thats w/e, but marriage is between a man and a woman.

Yes the piece of paper and ring experience is exclusive to heterosexual relationships.

[Jamie]

Y'all are just a bunch of hypocrites.
The Confederacy lasted 4 years, that hardly counts as part of your heritage.

[Death]

I really hate people like you, y'all are complaining about me personally attacking people, fine I'll stop. How bout you stop insulting me and my heritage.

Y'all are just a bunch of hypocrites.

And he's still moaning. For the love of God, how can you expect people to like you if you treat them like shit?

[Jess]

I am against gay marriage, I'm all for gay relationships thats w/e, but marriage is between a man and a woman.

Gender should not matter... there's nothing wrong with gay marriage.

[Death]

^^Agreed fully. Also, Church, you have yet to explain why you believe what you believe. I mean really, this is ROTW (a debate). And yes, I'll be happy to hear your views, that is if you give them maturely.

[Amnesiac]

I am against gay marriage, I'm all for gay relationships thats w/e, but marriage is between a man and a woman.

Respectfully asking, what makes marriage so "sacred" and "important" that gays cannot participate in it if we see an overwhelming amount of marriages ending in divorce? Conservatives regard marriage as some sacred bond, yet there are over 9000 divorces; many people seem to just marry for the money — and nobody complains about that.

But you won't let two happy people who have never done anything wrong in their lives legally bond with each other? Just because your religion apparently says it's a sin? Even though government is not dictated by religious teachings?

[Church]

For The DarthEgg, the reason my answer is what it is is because of what I was raised to believe whats right and wrong. I believe marriage between a man and a woman is a sacred bond under God cause thats the way it always has been in America. Civil unions or w/e there called is fine for gays but not marriage.

[Insanity Fair]

Respectfully asking, what makes marriage so "sacred" and "important" that gays cannot participate in it if we see an overwhelming amount of marriages ending in divorce? Conservatives regard marriage as some sacred bond, yet there are over 9000 divorces; many people seem to just marry for the money — and nobody complains about that.

But you won't let two happy people who have never done anything wrong in their lives legally bond with each other? Just because your religion apparently says it's a sin? Even though government is not dictated by religious teachings?

Oh no, they bitch about that too. They just see that as a losing fight. They think they still have a chance of stopping gay marriage.

[Amnesiac]

For The DarthEgg, the reason my answer is what it is is because of what I was raised to believe whats right and wrong. I believe marriage between a man and a woman is a sacred bond under God cause thats the way it always has been in America. Civil unions or w/e there called is fine for gays but not marriage.

I don't have anything against what you believe, but don't you think personal beliefs and political opinions should be kept separate? Not everyone thinks that homosexuality is wrong, you can't argue against it politically based on religion, since those are two separate entities.

There are plenty of things that have always been (the status quo) but wouldn't you agree that, in order to keep up the pace in this developing world, some long-standing traditions must be changed? The United States can't stay stuck in the past.

Oh no, they bitch about that too. They just see that as a losing fight. They think they still have a chance of stopping gay marriage.

I don't believe there'll be widespread gay marriage for a long time, and it disappoints me that Obama failed to use the supermajority in Congress to pass some federal law concerning it.

[Insanity Fair]

I don't believe there'll be widespread gay marriage for a long time, and it disappoints me that Obama failed to use the supermajority in Congress to pass some federal law concerning it.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was legalized everywhere in the U.S. by the time my children are determining there sexuality.

[Amnesiac]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was legalized everywhere in the U.S. by the time my children are determining there sexuality.

Yeah, by then I'd expect it to be more accepted. But not within the next few years, I'm almost certain of that.

[Church]

I don't have anything against what you believe, but don't you think personal beliefs and political opinions should be kept separate? Not everyone thinks that homosexuality is wrong, you can't argue against it politically based on religion, since those are two separate entities.



Dont you think political opinions are based off of your personal beliefs?

[Amnesiac]

Dont you think political opinions are based off of your personal beliefs?

I think political opinions are based off of what a person thinks is best for the community. It's not necessarily based totally off of personal things like religion.

[Sage]

I think political opinions are based off of what a person thinks is best for the community

Not really, most people vote to further their own needs/agendas.

[Death]

For The DarthEgg, the reason my answer is what it is is because of what I was raised to believe whats right and wrong. I believe marriage between a man and a woman is a sacred bond under God cause thats the way it always has been in America. Civil unions or w/e there called is fine for gays but not marriage.

You were raised to be against gay marriage? Then maybe you aren't so bad after all. I say blame the parents. They should have allowed you to have an open mind to believe what you like. Besides, just because you were raised to believe something, it doesn't make it true. As an infant, you instinctively believe virtually everything your parents tell you (like not to walk to the edge of a cliff or not to walk across the road without mum - basically for survival). In general (not just you), parents like to exploit this to make them believe just about everything. In your case, it's hatred against gay marriage. You're not special though; this is all too common.

Dont you think political opinions are based off of your personal beliefs?

For the clever people, yes. Too many people however will decide based on what others think because they can't do it for themselves, however.

[Jess]

For The DarthEgg, the reason my answer is what it is is because of what I was raised to believe whats right and wrong. I believe marriage between a man and a woman is a sacred bond under God cause thats the way it always has been in America. Civil unions or w/e there called is fine for gays but not marriage.

you were raised...I'll have to say blame your parents, as Death said.

[Amnesiac]

Not really, most people vote to further their own needs/agendas.

Well, I guess it depends on the person and the issue. I'm not gay, but I believe gays should have the right to marry — that's what I believe is best for the community, it's not necessarily a personal thing. There are people who don't like tax rises but would say it's what's best for the community. Only a selfish person would vote based totally off their own personal beliefs (i.e., religion).

[The Dark Lord]

For The DarthEgg, the reason my answer is what it is is because of what I was raised to believe whats right and wrong. I believe marriage between a man and a woman is a sacred bond under God cause thats the way it always has been in America. Civil unions or w/e there called is fine for gays but not marriage.

It depends whether you believe in God or not. Why if that is the case are fewer and fewer people getting married? If you feel that you must have a ring declearing that you love each other, then your relationship is in serious danger.

[Church]

you were raised...I'll have to say blame your parents, as Death said.

Dont you blame my parents for shit, they are both great people, they were both in the U.S Army and now my dad has been in the police department for 16 years, they both do a lot for the community. Just cause they dont think gays should get married doesnt make them bad people.

You must think my parents are like the Phelps who say fags should burn in hell, well there not, they both hate the Phelps and my moms best friend is gay but she still doesnt think gays should marry.

So dont you go blaming my parents for shit also before they even told me there opinions on it I had mine.

[dead]

Dont you blame my parents for shit, they are both great people, they were both in the U.S Army and now my dad has been in the police department for 16 years, they both do a lot for the community. Just cause they dont think gays should get married doesnt make them bad people.

You must think my parents are like the Phelps who say fags should burn in hell, well there not, they both hate the Phelps and my moms best friend is gay but she still doesnt think gays should marry.

So dont you go blaming my parents for shit also before they even told me there opinions on it I had mine.

People might listen to you if you stop bashing others and treat them with respect.

[Amnesiac]

Dont you blame my parents for shit, they are both great people, they were both in the U.S Army and now my dad has been in the police department for 16 years, they both do a lot for the community. Just cause they dont think gays should get married doesnt make them bad people.

You must think my parents are like the Phelps who say fags should burn in hell, well there not, they both hate the Phelps and my moms best friend is gay but she still doesnt think gays should marry.

So dont you go blaming my parents for shit also before they even told me there opinions on it I had mine.

Okay, okay, we were mistaken then. It's easy enough to say "my parents let me develop my own opinions" without going into a rant. We're just people on the Internet, from different places, we don't know you or your parents personally. There's no reason to get angry.

Back on topic: what bad things, if any, do you think could come out of the legalization of gay marriage? All it seems to have is benefits for a small segment of the population that wants to be happy.

[kaitsluvv]

I am not Atheist, but I'm also not opposed to gay marriage. I mean, why shouldnt there be? Why does it matter to people who other people love and want to start a life with? It doesnt effect the rest of us in any way, and theres no reason gay people should be, like, discriminated against. I'm not saying I'm gay, but I have friends that are, and its not fair to them at all.

[Amnesiac]

I am not Atheist, but I'm also not opposed to gay marriage. I mean, why shouldnt there be? Why does it matter to people who other people love and want to start a life with? It doesnt effect the rest of us in any way, and theres no reason gay people should be, like, discriminated against. I'm not saying I'm gay, but I have friends that are, and its not fair to them at all.

Just because someone's an atheist doesn't mean they'll necessarily support gay marriage, even though you'd be hard pressed to find an atheist against it. Most of the people who support gay marriage are less conservative Christians.

[The Dark Lord]

Dont you blame my parents for shit, they are both great people, they were both in the U.S Army and now my dad has been in the police department for 16 years, they both do a lot for the community. Just cause they dont think gays should get married doesnt make them bad people.

You must think my parents are like the Phelps who say fags should burn in hell, well there not, they both hate the Phelps and my moms best friend is gay but she still doesnt think gays should marry.

So dont you go blaming my parents for shit also before they even told me there opinions on it I had mine.

I find it very difficult to respect people who hold such bigoted, homophobic and disgusting views. Is it not hypocritical to fight for freedom but reject gays marrying? Doesn't rejecting the prospect of gay marriage defeat exactly the values your parents fought for? Surely instead of helping the community, they could help millions of people come out of the shadows and allow them to live together married?

[Church]

Well falling under your idea of freedom and happiness people should be allowed to marry animals or cars and shit.

[Amnesiac]

Well falling under your idea of freedom and happiness people should be allowed to marry animals or cars and shit.

It sounds absurd, yes, but I don't really have a problem with that. Is it weird, unnatural that people have feelings for animals and inanimate objects? Yes. Does it affect my life or the lives of others in any way? No. So why should I care? As long as nobody's going around messing with or endangering the lives of others through their activities, I couldn't care less. There are non-moral reasons you can't expand marriage to cars and animals: the legal benefits that come with marriage can't be applied to these sort of things. But as for people having feelings for animals and objects, I don't care at all.

[The Dark Lord]

Well falling under your idea of freedom and happiness people should be allowed to marry animals or cars and shit.

You are aware that gays are people and animals and cars aren't people, aren't you?

[redcar]

I actually wrote a long response to this last night but I thought I was a bit harsh and decided not to post it. But then I saw this lovely little post.

Well falling under your idea of freedom and happiness people should be allowed to marry animals or cars and shit.
When you use argruments like this you lose all credibility. All of it. I find this hilarious and also worrying that the youth of today are coming out with such utter shite.

You need to first realise that marraige is not just a religious event but it is also a non religious event. For example to get married in Ireland one can do it one of two ways. First way is going to a church and getting a priest to do it. Second is going to a local government office and getting a registrar to carry it out. Both ways are perfectly legal and give you a marraige certificate. I am sure this way is also generally the same around the world.

So would you consider people who got married in the latter way to not be married? If you do then thats just silly. So if you do consider them to be married we have just removed God from the marriage equation. He can be there but he doesn't always have to be. So why can't two men get married in that way? Gay people aren't looking for a big church event they are looking for equal rights in the law. They want succession rights, rights over children rights that hetrosexual married couples enjoy.

Don't worry we don't want to be part of your church. We don't want that. Why would we want to be part of an organistion that doesn' like us. We do want equal rights.

God isn't in every marriage and it appears to me that God is what is standing in the way here. So if he is not there what is standing in the way now?

To me when you say you dont think "the gays" should be able to marry is like people saying "Women you are not allowed to vote!" or "Black people sit at the back of the bus!". You are denying rights afforded to everyone else. Which means you see gay people as second class citizens. You must if you are willing to deny rights like this. It is the only time when rights are denied, when people are viewed as being second class.

You need to get over yourself and move with the times my friend.

[Church]

Well all I know is if gay marriage crap pops up in Kansas I'll vote no each time.

[Disco Jones]

Well all I know is if gay marriage crap pops up in Kansas I'll vote no each time.

Church, I completely agree with you and see where you're coming from. My best friend is black and I respect her as an individual, and will even support her relationships, but I'm still against interracial marriage. I mean, that's the way it was for a long time in America. Why hussle up the court systems over a change in marital policy?

They can have "civil unions", if they want to. That's technically not marriage, so it's ok. We have to protect the sanctity of the word "marriage". If we can't even protect our nation's definitions, I'm not sure we can protect anything at all. It's like the Confederacy, actually. It's not that they didn't want to free the slaves, it's that they didn't want to redefine the word "person" to include black people.

As soon as we let in interriacial marriage, they'll start pushing for gay marriage. As soon as we let that in, they'll be pushing for shoe marriage and car marriage and poop marriage. A poop isn't even a human being, it can't consent to marriage! That's like, marriage-rape!

Geez! Geez louise! Geezaloo!

[Insanity Fair]

Church, I completely agree with you and see where you're coming from. My best friend is black and I respect her as an individual, and will even support her relationships, but I'm still against interracial marriage. I mean, that's the way it was for a long time in America. Why hussle up the court systems over a change in marital policy?

They can have "civil unions", if they want to. That's technically not marriage, so it's ok. We have to protect the sanctity of the word "marriage". If we can't even protect our nation's definitions, I'm not sure we can protect anything at all. It's like the Confederacy, actually. It's not that they didn't want to free the slaves, it's that they didn't want to redefine the word "person" to include black people.

As soon as we let in interriacial marriage, they'll start pushing for gay marriage. As soon as we let that in, they'll be pushing for shoe marriage and car marriage and poop marriage. A poop isn't even a human being, it can't consent to marriage! That's like, marriage-rape!

Geez! Geez louise! Geezaloo!

Rep for the troll.

[Amnesiac]

Well all I know is if gay marriage crap pops up in Kansas I'll vote no each time.

What I don't understand is why you have such a staunch opposition to it without any reasoning behind it. We've argued our case in support of gay marriage, but every time you come back to answer you just say more stuff like this. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but we've come here for a hardcore debate, not just a one-sided speech.

[Jamie]

Dont you blame my parents for shit, they are both great people, they were both in the U.S Army and now my dad has been in the police department for 16 years, they both do a lot for the community. Just cause they dont think gays should get married doesnt make them bad people.

You must think my parents are like the Phelps who say fags should burn in hell, well there not, they both hate the Phelps and my moms best friend is gay but she still doesnt think gays should marry.

So dont you go blaming my parents for shit also before they even told me there opinions on it I had mine.
No, they aren't 'great people' as you define them.

No one is 'great'.

But the fact that you consider two people (albeit your parents), that hold such prejudicial views against a group of people, and have the gull that the Confederacy are/were part of their heritage to be great people, sickens me.

[Church]

I dont know if my parents claim to be Confederate types, they never tried teaching me those values. Most my views are my own opinion and likes.

[Sage]

Well all I know is if gay marriage crap pops up in Kansas I'll vote no each time.

Why? How does it affect your life?

[Rutherford The Brave]

Why? How does it affect your life?

Maybe its the issue of jealousy, because it seems apparent that Gay/lesbian unions are lasting longer that the 55% divorce rate of heterosexual marriages.

[Amnesiac]

Maybe its the issue of jealousy, because it seems apparent that Gay/lesbian unions are lasting longer that the 55% divorce rate of heterosexual marriages.

Wouldn't legalizing gay marriage, then, make marriage more "sacred" (instead of less) because we'd have more people marrying out of love instead of greed?

[Rutherford The Brave]

Wouldn't legalizing gay marriage, then, make marriage more "sacred" (instead of less) because we'd have more people marrying out of love instead of greed?

Yes, but that wasn't what I was getting at.

Maybe the straight couples are afraid to admit that someone who marries a person of the same sex will have a better relationship.

[Sage]

Wouldn't legalizing gay marriage, then, make marriage more "sacred" (instead of less) because we'd have more people marrying out of love instead of greed?

LOL. Nothing is sacred.

[Amnesiac]

Yes, but that wasn't what I was getting at.

Maybe the straight couples are afraid to admit that someone who marries a person of the same sex will have a better relationship.

I don't think that's why people are against gay marriage. They're just afraid of people they don't understand, people they can't relate to. Because of that they blindly and idiotically do everything they can to ruin their lives.

LOL. Nothing is sacred.

Haha, conservatives think marriage is. Sadly it isn't.

[Rutherford The Brave]

I don't think that's why people are against gay marriage. They're just afraid of people they don't understand, people they can't relate to. Because of that they blindly and idiotically do everything they can to ruin their lives.



Haha, conservatives think marriage is. Sadly it isn't.

I am aware of that. I just put out another possible reason.

[Church]

People keep asking why I'm agaisnt it and my reason is I think its wrong. Simple as that. And no I didnt have some traumatic experience with a gay like being raped or something stupid like that that would change my opinion, I always believed it was just wrong.

[Rainstorm]

Honestly, how is this even up for debate?

There should be gay marriage, there should be interracial marriage, there should be any kind of marriage that doesn't involve marrying an inanimate object (car, poop), an animal, or someone younger than the legal age with someone above it (Pedophile).

If I want to go propose my love to a guy and get married to him, how does it affect the people that are opposed to it? Because it goes against a thousand year old book where it never says that God doesn't like Homosexuals and Homosexuality?

The bible says that Homosexuality is an abomination. That DOESN'T mean God thinks they should all be killed and burned at the stake and not be married. In the times when the Bible was written, an abomination means unclean. Which is why eating shrimp was an abomination. Because people thought it was unclean at the time.

Really, grow up and stop acting like Gay's getting married is like the end of the world. Because the Bible shows no evidence of it.

[Church]

I'm not quoting the Bible, I'm saying in my opinion and my moral compass says its wrong.

[Rainstorm]

I'm not quoting the Bible, I'm saying in my opinion and my moral compass says its wrong.

I never said you quoted the bible, I'm just saying. That's the truth there. And that thus disproves most of the ideas that Homosexuals shouldn't marry in religion views. Leaving only your own views and fears.

[Church]

I dont know what "fears" your talking bout cause I aint afraid of a gay.

[Rainstorm]

I dont know what "fears" your talking bout cause I aint afraid of a gay.

Then explain to me, why are you so opposed to a gay marrying? It doesn't affect you if they want to marry. It's not like you have to attend the marriage. Or live with them on their honeymoon. So, why?

Honestly, plenty of gay marriages last longer than most heterosexual marriages. It's kind of sad that so many straight's oppose of it when they can't even keep a marriage themselves. :rolleyes:

[Church]

Well last week my parents had their 20th anniversary so they lasted, main issue with marriages now a days are people are marrying out of bastard children etc and cause they think there inlove.

Either way I dont think gays should marry cause I think marriage is between men and women. Simple as that, thats how it always been and how it should be.

[Rainstorm]

Well last week my parents had their 20th anniversary so they lasted, main issue with marriages now a days are people are marrying out of bastard children etc and cause they think there inlove.

Either way I dont think gays should marry cause I think marriage is between men and women. Simple as that, thats how it always been and how it should be.

You're parents make the minority of marriages that lasted for heteros.

Yes, they marry because they think they are in love. If a Gay couple is in real love, why deny them a right that people who have fake love take for granted?

Also, slavery was around for thousands of years. That's been changed in most of the world. Plenty of things have been altered. Why keep marriage based on the bible's word and the preaching of pastors that misinterpret the bible?

[Church]

I didnt bring up the bible so why are you?

I think its wrong ME. I dont get my opinion from the Bible.

[Rainstorm]

Seeing as how you're name is Church, I figure you've had some influence from the bible.

[Church]

I get the name Church from a comedy series based on Halo.

I had a point in my life where I was agnostic but I still though gay marriage was wrong.

[Rainstorm]

Ok then..

Anyways, so you believe it's right to allow people who are straight to take marriage for granted to get married, but if people are honestly in love and are gay, they should be denied it?

[Church]

Pretty much.

[Rainstorm]

That's completely counterproductive and just a waste of a right that's already flawed. :rolleyes:

[Amnesiac]

Pretty much.

I must say, that makes no sense whatsoever.

We live in a country based on freedom. We should be happy — it should be our duty — to give people more rights, not less.

[Shortkid]

I think it should definitely be allowed. Why should the government be able to say who is an acceptable partner for someone?

[Rainstorm]

I think it should definitely be allowed. Why should the government be able to say who is an acceptable partner for someone?

Sadly the church has the final say, to be honest.

[dead]

Sadly the church has the final say, to be honest.

Well sort of.

[Amnesiac]

Sadly the church has the final say, to be honest.

I don't think that would apply to countries where there are either not many religious people or a lot of different churches split on the issue, like here in the U.S.

[Rutherford The Brave]

Sadly the church has the final say, to be honest.

No, not really. You don't have to get married through the church. If you get a justice of the peace you can get married. So basically, the church has no say is government dicisions. Seeing as there is a seperation of church and state.

[Andrzej]

Either way I dont think gays should marry cause I think marriage is between men and women. Simple as that, thats how it always been and how it should be.

There is no absolute definition to marriage. There have been instances in history where people marry in polygamous relationships, and these marriages still go on today. There have been instances where people marry their siblings and numerous other types of unions have taken place as well. I highly doubt that there has never been a union between two people of the same gender in history.

I do not believe we should accept all forms of marriage where it is between consenting people, we should only accept the forms of marriage that are not detrimental to our society. Polygamy does not coincide with the family unit that our society was built on, and neither do incestuous relationships, since they are basically destroying the unit. I do not see how same sex marriage would be detrimental to society, in fact I think it could only be beneficial.

I do believe in the concept of the family unit, I just do not believe that the gender of the spouses should be relevant. And... well, that's about it. That's the only reason why I think same sex marriage should be legalized. Why should gender matter, in any type of social situation, friendship or romantic interest?

People keep asking why I'm agaisnt it and my reason is I think its wrong. Simple as that.

No, it's not as simple as that. You pretty much just said, "Same sex marriage is wrong because it's wrong". That's not a reason.

If a Gay couple is in real love, why deny them a right that people who have fake love take for granted?

Look, I agree with you that same sex marriage should be legalized, but the whole "who are we to deny people's love" is pretty much the worst argument in history. Trying to appeal to people's emotions is not proper debating.

And just because someone is against same sex marriage, does not mean they are a mindless anti-gay bigot. They are traditionalists.

[Jamie]

I happened to find just a few things... odd, here.

someone younger than the legal age with someone above it (Pedophile).
Well, paedophilia only extends to the onset of puberty, if you married someone, say, over the age of 11, you wouldn't be paedophilic.

The bible says that Homosexuality is an abomination. That DOESN'T mean God thinks they should all be killed and burned at the stake and not be married.

Actually, that's exactly what god thinks.
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

[The Ninja]

the way i see it is if they want to get married let them i mean this is a free country, or atleast it used to be, this just shows thats its slowly changing.

[Jamie]

Seeing as there is a seperation of church and state.
There is? Really? Where?

[Amnesiac]

There is? Really? Where?

In dozens of Supreme Court decisions that have piled up over the last 200 years.

[Jamie]

In dozens of Supreme Court decisions that have piled up over the last 200 years.
Oh no, you see, I would prefer sources.

Mainly because there's no official document stating there's a wall of sep. between church & state, therefore it'd be bold to rule on that.

Taking just someone else's word in a debate isn't... kosher.

[Rutherford The Brave]

Oh no, you see, I would prefer sources.

Mainly because there's no official document stating there's a wall of sep. between church & state, therefore it'd be bold to rule on that.

Taking just someone else's word in a debate isn't... kosher.

Two clauses in the First Amendment guarantee freedom of religion. The establishment clause prohibits the government from passing legislation to establish an official religion or preferring one religion over another. It enforces the "separation of church and state." Some governmental activity related to religion has been declared constitutional by the Supreme Court. For example, providing bus transportation for parochial school students and the enforcement of "blue laws" is not prohibited. The free exercise clause prohibits the government, in most instances, from interfering with a person's practice of their religion.http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/First_amendment

Only someone who has no ability to debate, not to mention a person who is not familiar with the ammendments would ask me to find a source... Our whole government was built off of being a solo being, not having anything to do with the church...

[Amnesiac]

Oh no, you see, I would prefer sources.

Mainly because there's no official document stating there's a wall of sep. between church & state, therefore it'd be bold to rule on that.

Taking just someone else's word in a debate isn't... kosher.

No, there's no single "official document" that explicitly states the United States is a secular nation. There is the Treaty of Tripoli which separates U.S. government from Christianity, and numerous Supreme Court cases which have used the term "separation of church and state".

[Jamie]

Only someone who has no ability to debate
Hmmm.
not to mention a person who is not familiar with the ammendmentsAmendments*
would ask me to find a sourceI asked you to find me a source? Where did this take place, exactly?
Our whole government was built off of being a solo being, not having anything to do with the church...
This actually makes little sense, meh.
No, there's no single "official document" that explicitly states the United States is a secular nation.
Thanks for reiterating that.
There is the Treaty of Tripoli which separates U.S. government from Christianity
I'm aware of that treaty. Though it only states that it wasn't a country founded on Christianity. It also only sets agreements to where religion won't be a factor in any future decision that could abrupt the treaty.
and numerous Supreme Court cases which have used the term "separation of church and state".
The only supreme court rulings I'm seeing in where this is even remotely though to be enforced, are in regards to the pledge, or the ten commandments being displayed in public gathering areas maintained by a county in the U.S., or in a federal building/establishment.

[Ryhanna]

Of course gay's should be allowed to marry, the only thing I can see against it is religion. The only reason (I can think of) is that the Bible says it's a "no no." Yet so much else the Bible is against is legal - Gambling, sex for non-reproductive purposes.

People should be able to love who they love. People are people, body parts shouldn't seperate love.

[Sage]

I didnt bring up the bible so why are you?

I think its wrong ME. I dont get my opinion from the Bible.

If you think gay marriage is wrong, what are your thoughts on cheating on one's spouse? Is that wrong too? Should it be illegal?

[Rainstorm]

Actually, that's exactly what god thinks.


If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Like I said, abomination means unclean in Biblical terms. That doesn't mean that God thinks they SHOULD die. However, because the people thought it was unclean, Homosexuals would be put to death due to diseases spread due to the sexual actions between them.

Also, based on this quote, so Lesbians are ok?

[Amnesiac]

Thanks for reiterating that.

You're welcome :rolleyes:

I'm aware of that treaty. Though it only states that it wasn't a country founded on Christianity. It also only sets agreements to where religion won't be a factor in any future decision that could abrupt the treaty.

Yes, but a fundamental argument used by those against separation of church and state is that the United States was "founded" on Christianity, which this document clearly falsifies.

The only supreme court rulings I'm seeing in where this is even remotely though to be enforced, are in regards to the pledge, or the ten commandments being displayed in public gathering areas maintained by a county in the U.S., or in a federal building/establishment.

It has further legal depth than that, it stretches to every remotely religious action the government takes. Separation of church and state is such a frequented debate in the U.S. that the Supreme Court has a test for it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_Test#Lemon_test). It's more than just school prayer and public displays, it's government funding, sponsorship and other types of government endorsement.

[Jamie]

That doesn't mean that God thinks they SHOULD die.
The verse explicitly states they shall be put to death, and that their blood shall be upon them, what are you missing?

Also, based on this quote, so Lesbians are ok?
I'm sure it goes vice/versa.
You're welcome :rolleyes:
:)
Yes, but a fundamental argument used by those against separation of church and state is that the United States was "founded" on Christianity, which this document clearly falsifies.
I never claimed it was founded upon any religion, only that it doesn't explicitly exclude religion from being a factor in today's society within government proceedings. Making this irrelevant.
It has further legal depth than that, it stretches to every remotely religious action the government takes. Separation of church and state is such a frequented debate in the U.S. that the Supreme Court has a test for it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_Test#Lemon_test). It's more than just school prayer and public displays, it's government funding, sponsorship and other types of government endorsement.
Thanks for the linking, I'll take a look at it and get back to you.

[Rainstorm]

The verse explicitly states they shall be put to death, and that their blood shall be upon them, what are you missing?

I'm sure it goes vice/versa.



I am missing how you think that God would kill them. "Love the sinner, hate the sin." The passage does not inexplicably say that they shall be hit by lighting, or that God will kill them with some other form other than medical reason.

Remember, back then, the medic's were far fewer and less skilled than today's. If a man gained a disease from another man, whose to say he wouldn't die a bloody death?


And the passage doesn't say it goes vice/versa. Therefore it doesn't.

[taylor115]

i thought this was a country of freedom and equal rights

[Rainstorm]

i thought this was a country of freedom and equal rights

Sadly, this isn't true.

[NeverTooLate]

i thought this was a country of freedom and equal rights

only if ur white and rich and straight

[Amnesiac]

only if ur white and rich and straight

and Christian

[Rutherford The Brave]

and Christian

And never had any run ins with the law.

[Jamie]

I am missing how you think that God would kill them. "Love the sinner, hate the sin." The passage does not inexplicably say that they shall be hit by lighting, or that God will kill them with some other form other than medical reason.
It states the offenders shall be put to death, presumably by the followers of the Christian god.
Remember, back then, the medic's were far fewer and less skilled than today's. If a man gained a disease from another man, whose to say he wouldn't die a bloody death?
"Shall be put to death" and "well, if he dies do to his actions, then it's his own fault", don't exactly intertwine.
only if ur white and rich and straight
Rich black men don't receive the same as rich white men? Since when?
And never had any run ins with the law.
This one too, it seems as if it's almost a requirement for wealthy white/black men to break the law in the public eye, without consequences. :p

[Rutherford The Brave]

It states the offenders shall be put to death, presumably by the followers of the Christian god.
"Shall be put to death" and "well, if he dies do to his actions, then it's his own fault", don't exactly intertwine.

Rich black men don't receive the same as rich white men? Since when?

This one too, it seems as if it's almost a requirement for wealthy white/black men to break the law in the public eye, without consequences. :p

Everyone breaks the law, but in the end who does the media target when they do?

[Amnesiac]

Rich black men don't receive the same as rich white men? Since when?

This one too, it seems as if it's almost a requirement for wealthy white/black men to break the law in the public eye, without consequences. :p

We weren't talking about rich people, just the public in general. There's a significant income gap between whites and blacks, as well as prison rate.