Christianity- The world's most hated religion??(discuss) [Archive]

Melchi0r

September 15th, 2006, 08:51 PM

I am a Christian am angered that my religion has been despised for a long time now. At my church, they showed us a video asking people on the street what they think of when they hear "Jesus Christ". A few people said "fictional" but others said things like "spiritual leader," "savior", "cool guy", "love", and "God," etc. Then they asked them what they thought of when they heard "Christianity." People gave answers like "cult," "bad," "annoying," "hatred", "intolerance," etc.

What happened, Christians??

Well, let's go back to the beginning:

1. Roman Catholocism- Ever since I stopped going to Roman Catholic mass and went to a contemporary church I've noticed a bunch of things which I think that Roman Catholocism does wrong. Like everything being like a ceremony, the same every Sunday. Whenever I left mass, I didn't feel any closer to God or anything, I was just thinking about lunch. Also, I do respect the Pope and all, but I don't think that a religion needs a powerful spiritual leader that lives in a big fancy city, especially not Christianity. Christianity was meant to be a religion that basically involved you and God one-on-one. I think worship is good, but a long boring service shouldn't be the only way that you communicate with God.

2. Over-dependency on the Bible/scriptures. Keep in mind, zealots- They're only really old documents! Besides, in the Dark Ages, our good old friend, the Roman Catholic church, changed many many things in the Bible. Also, people are against things because the Bible "has some passage somewhere against it" but they've never actually looked through their Bible and read it there. Take, for example, the passage against homosexuality in Leviticus. First of all, Moses probably wrote it in there because it was his own personal beliefs. Homosexuals are equal to heterosexuals because gays can't help their sexuality, and why would God create gay people if it was a sin to be gay? Second of all, the passage said that gay people should be killed, which we now know is unnacceptable. Plus, Jesus kind of cancelled out the word of Moses when he was at the stoning of the prostitute, and said "Let he who is without sin throw the first stone". We can't condemn anyone, we are all sinful, no sin is greater than any other sins, so we should worry about our own faults before declaring to the gay person that God hates them.

Remember, it isn't God's word, it's man's word, and humans are greedy little twits.

3. Judgmentalism- Again, Christians seem to have been gaining a "holier-than-thou" attitude, making them think that they can point out the non-Christians faults. Puh-LEASE, Christians, you aren't better people than them because you have a good church attendance record. Keep in mind that you're just as bad as they are, you're just too high on your own ego to see it.

Yes, I think that trying to teach non-Christians about Jesus is good, but you have to do it non-evasively, don't make the other person uncomfortable, and let them decide for themselves if they wanna be Christians.

Well, I've said my part for now. So discuss.

Phantom

September 15th, 2006, 09:17 PM

I personaly dont like most religions period. They seem to cause more harm than good you dont need ten commandments to instill good values in your kids. Muslims flying planes into buildings bombing shit killing infidels, christians fire bombing abortion centers, captureing the president holding them at gunpoint. Or those annoying christians coming to your door and basicly saying covert or burn in hell, telling indiginous peoples to convert or burn. I also dont like the whole shove religion down your throat thing, or people that make retarded choices based on stupied belifs *cough* Bush stem cell reserch*cough*

cmpcmp

September 15th, 2006, 10:21 PM

Im a little confused,
They contradict the Scriptures (not like they're as important as some Christians make them out to be, but we'll talk about that later) that they're supposed to be following.
and then you say....
Over-dependency on the Bible/scriptures. Keep in mind, zealots- They're only really old documents! Besides, in the Dark Ages, our good old friend, the Roman Catholic church, changed many many things in the Bible
so are they old books that have been tampered with, or things that should be religiously followed?
for example, the passage against homosexuality in Leviticus. First of all, Moses probably wrote it in there because it was his own personal beliefs. Homosexuals are equal to heterosexuals because gays can't help their sexuality, and why would God create gay people if it was a sin to be gay?
Second of all, the passage said that gay people should be killed, which we now know is unnacceptable. Plus, Jesus kind of cancelled out the word of Moses when he was at the stoning of the prostitute, and said "Let he who is without sin throw the first stone"
SO then, the passages on homosexuality are wrong, but the one on not stoning ppl to death is right.

call me sceptic but u seem to pick and choose what ever you want, and call what you don't want the product of human interference.

ps explain these to.
"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." King James Version, Genesis 1:28

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [malakoi], nor homosexual offenders [arsenokoites], nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God."
I CORINTHIANS 6:9-10
(new testament at that)

Leviticus 18:22
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination"

Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

If these qoutes are meaningless, what makes all of the others worth anything?

Plus, the Pope said that "God told him to invade the Holy Lands" and thus the Crusades began, and millions of Europeans died for not really anything in particular.
A ton of stuff in the bible is way less beleivable than this.

Yes, I think that trying to teach non-Christians about Jesus is good, but you have to do it non-evasively, don't make the other person uncomfortable, and let them decide for themselves if they wanna be Christians.

DO you belive that non-christian souls will eternaly burn in hell?
-if so then why would you care if ppl are a little offended when you really doing whats best for them?
-if not, then aren't ppl better off not knowing b/c they will go to heaven anyways?

Trademarked

September 15th, 2006, 10:49 PM

i hate all religions. how stupid do you have to be to believe in something that isnt real? if you have some problem, thats why people talk, not some other stupid "being" that doesnt exist.
religions are the basis of all problems in my mind. christianity mostly because it is the largest religion.

Yes, I think that trying to teach non-Christians about Jesus is good, but you have to do it non-evasively, don't make the other person uncomfortable, and let them decide for themselves if they wanna be Christians.

you have the right for free speech, i have the right mace you in the eyes.

do not try to market a religion to me, i will hurt somebody.

Phantom

September 15th, 2006, 11:07 PM

cmpcmp

September 15th, 2006, 11:33 PM

Riley, i sorta agree with you,

how can there be many differnet religions, that all have ppl devoted to them who think that it is the "right" one. If anyhting this proves that a religion could be created, or evolved over time (like christianity with abraham, then moses,.... then jesus) and you could get ppl to belive it and follow it.

Unlike you, i do belive in a "God", as a creator of the universe, wether he (it w/e) can hear me, listen to me, know what im thinking, if there is an afterlife or what ever i don't know. Maybe it is human nature to belive in a power greater than yourself (as it hass happened all throught time) but when you listen to other humans and take what they say to be the word of God all to often ppl are killed my the thousands. You don't need to be part of a religion to be a good person.

Trademarked

September 16th, 2006, 01:15 AM

how can there be many differnet religions, that all have ppl devoted to them who think that it is the "right" one.

there is no right religion, religion should be banned, it is the root of a lot of problems, and should be eliminated altogether.

xTheLordsServantx

September 16th, 2006, 01:54 AM

First of all, u all know i was going to get involved in this discussion.

I am a Christian am angered that my religion has been despised for a long time now. At my church, they showed us a video asking people on the street what they think of when they hear "Jesus Christ". A few people said "fictional" but others said things like "spiritual leader," "savior", "cool guy", "love", and "God," etc. Then they asked them what they thought of when they heard "Christianity." People gave answers like "cult," "bad," "annoying," "hatred", "intolerance," etc.

What happened, Christians??

Well, let's go back to the beginning:

1. Roman Catholocism- The absolute worst sect of Christianity in my opinion. They contradict the Scriptures (not like they're as important as some Christians make them out to be, but we'll talk about that later) that they're supposed to be following. In the letter to the Romans, Paul talks about the Pharisees and how they believe, and everyone else thinks, that they're the spiritual leaders because they follow everything by the prostitute or a murderer. Plus, the Pope said that "God told him to invade the Holy Lands" and thus the Crusades began, and millions of Europeans died for not really anything in particular. And why do priests always get charged for molestation of young boys? I'm sorry if you're Catholic- I'm not attacking you personally. And if you're getting offended, I'm sorry, but getting offended is the beauty of living in a free country.

Well, im not catholic, but u cant let the actions of a minority of people, be the determining factor of the whole people. Basically, ur saying because a few catholic priests have done sexual acts with minors, that means that ALL catholic priests do that, which is stereotyping.

2. Over-dependency on the Bible/scriptures. Keep in mind, zealots- They're only really old documents! Besides, in the Dark Ages, our good old friend, the Roman Catholic church, changed many many things in the Bible. Also, people are against things because the Bible "has some passage somewhere against it" but they've never actually looked through their Bible and read it there. Take, for example, the passage against homosexuality in Leviticus. First of all, Moses probably wrote it in there because it was his own personal beliefs. Homosexuals are equal to heterosexuals because gays can't help their sexuality, and why would God create gay people if it was a sin to be gay? Second of all, the passage said that gay people should be killed, which we now know is unnacceptable. Plus, Jesus kind of cancelled out the word of Moses when he was at the stoning of the prostitute, and said "Let he who is without sin throw the first stone". We can't condemn anyone, we are all sinful, no sin is greater than any other sins, so we should worry about our own faults before declaring to the gay person that God hates them.

Ok, you shouldnt be so nieve, but look at the word as a spiritual guide, created by God to guide our lives. God inspired the writers of each Gospel, just as he inspires you or me or anyone else. Example: Joel Osteen is inspired by the Lord, and look at the blessings he has received for listening. Yes, i will admit, God didnt write the Bible, man did, meaning there are going to be a few flaws, but overall, it has an overall meaning, which is what i believe we should be looking at.

Remember, it isn't God's word, it's man's word, and humans are greedy little twits.

Thats judgement. lol.

3. Judgmentalism- Again, Christians seem to have been gaining a "holier-than-thou" attitude, making them think that they can point out the non-Christians faults. Puh-LEASE, Christians, you aren't better people than them because you have a good church attendance record. Keep in mind that you're just as bad as they are, you're just too high on your own ego to see it.

I agree with this 100%, and admit sometimes i have even seemed as if i thought i was "more holy" then other people. But recently, i realized that nobody is more holy than another person. I agree with u. God loves us all equally. We have all sinned. WE ARE ALL SINNERS. The only distinction between Christians and non-Christians i believe is the fact that Christians have been saved and received the holy spirit, while non-Christians have not. But, that does not mean you will go to hell. But we will continue this convo later, because im tired and i wunna go to bed. night.

Yes, I think that trying to teach non-Christians about Jesus is good, but you have to do it non-evasively, don't make the other person uncomfortable, and let them decide for themselves if they wanna be Christians.

Well, I've said my part for now. So discuss.[/quote]

EDIT

i hate all religions. how stupid do you have to be to believe in something that isnt real? if you have some problem, thats why people talk, not some other stupid "being" that doesnt exist.
religions are the basis of all problems in my mind. christianity mostly because it is the largest religion.

Well, I am very smart, yet i believe in religion. Also, if u can show me substantial proof that it isnt real, then i will convert to athiesm. But, i can show YOU that your "Big Bang" Theory points to God. There is a book called, "God: The Evidence" and it totally shows how if there were minor changes in the atomic structure of the elements, the sun would not exist. Ill give u quotes from the book, which was created by scientists, which proves that God really does exist.

you have the right for free speech, i have the right mace you in the eyes.

Actually, u dont have that right because a man in Wisconsin maced his son, and now hes facing criminal charges for something like "Unrightly conduct of mace" which is against the law. So, ur wrong!

do not try to market a religion to me, i will hurt somebody.

cmpcmp

September 16th, 2006, 03:44 AM

can u adress the questions on my post (i know it's a lot of writing/reading)

redcar

September 16th, 2006, 06:36 AM

1. Roman Catholocism- The absolute worst sect of Christianity in my opinion. They contradict the Scriptures (not like they're as important as some Christians make them out to be, but we'll talk about that later) that they're supposed to be following. In the letter to the Romans, Paul talks about the Pharisees and how they believe, and everyone else thinks, that they're the spiritual leaders because they follow everything by the prostitute or a murderer. Plus, the Pope said that "God told him to invade the Holy Lands" and thus the Crusades began, and millions of Europeans died for not really anything in particular. And why do priests always get charged for molestation of young boys? I'm sorry if you're Catholic- I'm not attacking you personally. And if you're getting offended, I'm sorry, but getting offended is the beauty of living in a free country.

as a Catholic i resent that statement. esspecially the part of the priests molesting boys. granted there were some priests who did it, just like there are countless of other sick people out there who do that to children. its not just the Catholics, i am sure whatever branch of Christianity your involved in your ministers are not all saints.

Ravenous

September 16th, 2006, 07:24 AM

i hate all religions. how stupid do you have to be to believe in something that isnt real?
Well good for you sunshine, but the thing is, you have no proof that christianity isn't completely correct. I am not a religious person, and I do not believe any religion is correct. However I have no way of knowing that for sure and thats something people need to understand.
Tolerate others peoples beliefs, thats essential.
there is no right religion, religion should be banned, it is the root of a lot of problems, and should be eliminated altogether.
Once again... You don't know that. Religion should not be banned, although it does cause many problems, it gives hope to many people. It is what some people need to get through the day, and if thats what they need, thats what they should have.
Well, I am very smart
Bullshit are you, you are one of the stupidest people on this site.
But, i can show YOU that your "Big Bang" Theory points to God. There is a book called, "God: The Evidence" and it totally shows how if there were minor changes in the atomic structure of the elements, the sun would not exist. Ill give u quotes from the book, which was created by scientists, which proves that God really does exist.
Go for it, if you show me substancial evidence.
you have the right for free speech, i have the right mace you in the eyes.
I might have the right to free speach in public, but that is still limited, its not totally free speech. On the internet, and on VT no one, except Josh/Sam has that right.
And I am fairly sure its assualt/attempted murder if you mace someone in the eyes...
Potterfile1991]And why do priests always get charged for molestation of young boys?
Haha that doesn't ALWAYS happen does it! Idiot. Thats like saying it ALWAYS floods in New Orleans because it happened once or twice. Steriotyping at its worst there.

Oh and I think you will find Islam (unfairly) is probably the most hated religion.

mRojas2000

September 16th, 2006, 08:11 AM

My "religion" is only with jesus and god... no churches. My faith doesnt need a building! I would only go to the bread thing (I don't know how to call it in english, but its the thing jesus gave in the last supped, and stuff)
I think all the church, and vatican are bs, and are there just for money. Even tho they might help poor people, I think its all bs.
the pope... I respect him, for representing my religion, but I don't really think there can be someone who is closer to gad than anyone else, thats dead people's job.

thats all

Melchi0r

September 16th, 2006, 08:13 AM

Im a little confused,

and then you say....

so are they old books that have been tampered with, or things that should be religiously followed?

SO then, the passages on homosexuality are wrong, but the one on not stoning ppl to death is right.

call me sceptic but u seem to pick and choose what ever you want, and call what you don't want the product of human interference.

ps explain these to.
"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." King James Version, Genesis 1:28

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate [malakoi], nor homosexual offenders [arsenokoites], nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God."
I CORINTHIANS 6:9-10
(new testament at that)

Leviticus 18:22
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination"

Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

If these qoutes are meaningless, what makes all of the others worth anything?

A ton of stuff in the bible is way less beleivable than this.

DO you belive that non-christian souls will eternaly burn in hell?
-if so then why would you care if ppl are a little offended when you really doing whats best for them?
-if not, then aren't ppl better off not knowing b/c they will go to heaven anyways?

Yeah, you're right, I should have specified my own personal beliefs about the Bible.

I believe that some parts of the Bible have worth and can teach us things, but lots of it is bull. I think the Gospel is worthwhile to read, the letter to the Romans is (it has some parts that might have been changed over time, but overall it's worth reading) and Psalms seems to be good for writing hymns, lol.

The Genesis Verse- What part do you want me to explain?
Corinthians- Whoever wrote that thought that God hated homosexuals because of Moses' law, so that's probably why it was in there.
Leviticus- Moses thought that homosexuals were bad! But he was wrong to condemn them because of what Jesus said at the stoning of the prostitute.

(I believe that the stoning of the prostitute story is real because the early church didn't want to teach it, so because it offended them, it must be real!)

EDIT: I'm changing what I said about Roman Catholocism in the very beginning. To all Catholics: You're probably awesome people, but I was raised a Catholic and when I started going to a more contemporary church I noticed a lot of flaws in Roman Catholocism.

cmpcmp

September 16th, 2006, 04:10 PM

I believe that some parts of the Bible have worth and can teach us things, but lots of it is bull.
ok, how can you belive in a religion whose basis is on one book (with many little books) if you admit that lots of it is "bull", and how can you discern what is "bull" and what isn't? Plus couldn't god have just made a bible that was perfect and have them fall out of the sky or something (or have it writen on stone tablets from a mountian)?

Phantom

September 16th, 2006, 05:24 PM

ok, how can you belive in a religion whose basis is on one book (with many little books) if you admit that lots of it is "bull", and how can you discern what is "bull" and what isn't? Plus couldn't god have just made a bible that was perfect and have them fall out of the sky or something (or have it writen on stone tablets from a mountian)?LOL I never even thought of that. Why wouldent "god" just do that instead to avoid all this confusion, according to christians he's omnipotent so he would have know this would happen.

xTheLordsServantx

September 16th, 2006, 06:20 PM

Bullshit are you, you are one of the stupidest people on this site.

Ouch. That is not a very nice thing to say.

Go for it, if you show me substancial evidence.

I believe i stated before, that the book was called: "God: The Evidence" feel free to read it. :yes:

My "religion" is only with jesus and god... no churches. My faith doesnt need a building! I would only go to the bread thing (I don't know how to call it in english, but its the thing jesus gave in the last supped, and stuff)
I think all the church, and vatican are bs, and are there just for money. Even tho they might help poor people, I think its all bs.
the pope... I respect him, for representing my religion, but I don't really think there can be someone who is closer to gad than anyone else, thats dead people's job.

thats all

Yes, i agree that a relationship with God and Jesus are most important, scripture states that we need the Church to strengthen our faith and our relationship with the Lord.
Please read (its very short, but looks long):
Acts 2:42 could be considered a purpose statement for the church, â€œThey devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.â€ So, according to this Scripture, the purposes / activities of the church should be: (1) teaching Biblical doctrine, (2) providing a place of fellowship for believers, (3) observing the Lordâ€™s supper, and (4) praying.
The church is to teach Biblical doctrine so we can be grounded in our faith. Ephesians 4:14 tells us, â€œThen we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.â€ The church is to be a place of fellowship, where Christians can be devoted to one another and honor one another (Romans 12:10), instruct one another (Romans 15:14), be kind and compassionate to one another (Ephesians 4:32), encourage one another (1 Thessalonians 5:11), and most importantly love one another (1 John 3:11).
The church is to be a place where believers can observe the Lordâ€™s supper, remembering Christâ€™s death and shed blood on our behalf (1 Corinthians 11:23-26). The concept of â€œbreaking breadâ€ (Acts 2:42) also carries the idea of having meals together. This is another example of the church promoting fellowship. The final purpose of the church according to Acts 2:42 is prayer. The church is to be a place that promotes prayer, teaches prayer, and practices prayer. Philippians 4:6-7 encourages us, â€œDo not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.â€
Another â€œcommissionâ€ given to the church is proclaiming the Gospel of salvation through Jesus Christ (Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 1:8). The church is called to be faithful in sharing the Gospel through word and deed. The church is to be a â€œlighthouseâ€ in the community â€“ pointing people towards our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The church is to both promote the Gospel and prepare its members to proclaim the Gospel (1 Peter 3:15).

So, based on the reasons listed above, i would not only say church is vital to maintaining a strong relationship with the Lord, but it is also His house, and thus we should respect it. Although some people use churches to exploit money from the masses, God will do justice.

Melchi0r

September 16th, 2006, 08:53 PM

Hey, everone.

I'd just like to remind everyone that this thread could make for a very interesting discussion. PLEASE do not flame people over differing beliefs. Please.

I created this thread because how Christians have gained a reputation of being snobby, arogant, judgemental, stupid and mean. Some people have become immature about certain subjects because it's "unclean", some of them become very close-minded and won't even listen to the other side of a story. Some Christians have also become arrogant and gained a feeling of superiority because they're good Christians and the other people are just scum to them.

So let us discuss here what a good, unobnoxious Christian should be like. And if you are atheist, pretend here that God is real.

kolte

September 16th, 2006, 10:12 PM

Christianity, to answer your question, is not the words most hated religion.
Itâ€™s the worldâ€™s most popular lol. I would expect something like the religion
of eating babies to be the most hated, though I don't know of any religion
that advocates such barbarism.

I advocate for peace. Love is my religion. Tolerance, open-mindedness, and
peace are just a few of my personal guidelines of true morality, which,
because of mans individuality, cannot be realized.

Religion; Humph, itâ€™s not something that Iâ€™m very fond of. Iâ€™ve said some
rather harsh things about it in the past, but given more recent
ideological perspectives, I have decided that:

Though I am against, passionately, all forums of organized religion, I accept,
tolerate, and keep an open mind to them.

Yes Christians, though philosophically peaceful, have been one of the main
drivers of war, genocide, corruption, and oppression in the modern and
pre-modern times.

We should all learn to live as brothers and sisters, regardless of sex, race,
creed, age, ideology, or political affiliation.

Love is my religion â€“ Ziggy Marley

Phantom

September 16th, 2006, 11:31 PM

cmpcmp

September 17th, 2006, 05:15 AM

No but really Panic (the SN), how do you decide what is just crock that got put in there and what isn't? It seems to me that how ppl determine what the bible really means just changes to bend what ever ppl want to belive or what they have reasoned form nonbiblical sourses.

Throughout history biblical interperitation changes and then becomes religious "law". i mean.....
-1000+ years ago the bible "said" that the sun rotated around the world, this was from the story where God makes the sun stops rotating around the earth so the day lasts longer.
-300 years ago the bible said that God made man exactly how he is right now, now the church (catholic) supports inteligent design.
-300 years ago The bible said that the earth was created ~300o years ago
-up to from 300-(to now, in some official religious interperitations by christian churches) the bible says that Noah actualy got a boat and put all of the animals on it (how can u possibly claim this, cuz he would have had to go all of the way to undiscovered australia and america(N+S)
-untill not long ago and still today, the bible condems homosexuality for ppl who are agianst it and it doesn't for ppl that are for it, I personaly know many ppl on both sides of this issue and their interperitation oft eh Bible on this nerver fails.

Ravenous

September 17th, 2006, 08:47 AM

Ouch. That is not a very nice thing to say.
I believe i stated before, that the book was called: "God: The Evidence" feel free to read it. :yes:

Well poor you, I speak the truth if you can't handle that then you are gonna have a hard time surviving in this world.
I'm not gonna get hold of and read a whole book to prove your point, if you want to show me, then quote me some important paragraphs or something. I seriously doubt this book has any proof of god what-so-ever.

xTheLordsServantx

September 17th, 2006, 10:45 AM

i think u all know already that i am a christian. But i feel like in the past, with my harsh defensive arguements, i gave the wrong impression of what a christian should be like. My pastor actually addressed that giving people the wrong impression of Christianity will turn them away instead of bring them closer. But as a Christian, it is my duty to Evangelize people. So, i will no longer "force Christianity down people's throats" or try to prove that Christianity is true, because there is no proof. ITS BASED ON FAITH. But i will show you the miracles Christ has performed in my life, and then you can make the decision for yourself.

So back to the main point, i believe Christianity is not evil or bad or horrible, but that Christians have done a poor job representing our religion, thus, we make Christianity seem evil through the eyes of someone who may not fully understand our beliefs.

redcar

September 17th, 2006, 11:00 AM

But as a Christian, it is my duty to Evangelize people.
i tend to disagree with this. i hate the idea of preaching or proclaiming the Gospel to people. because i know i hate when people do it to me. people need to find their own religion in their own way, to have someone influence them and preach to them isn't right in my opinion. in fact i think it turns people away from it all.

Melchi0r

September 17th, 2006, 12:15 PM

No but really Panic (the SN), how do you decide what is just crock that got put in there and what isn't? It seems to me that how ppl determine what the bible really means just changes to bend what ever ppl want to belive or what they have reasoned form nonbiblical sourses.

I don't really know how to decide what in the Bible is just crock. It's kind of like faith. The Letters to the Romans and to Timothy are very good to read for Christians who have just gotten into the religion because they teach the methods on how to be close to God and how to talk to other people about God and Jesus. But some books, like the ones that tell stories, and the ones about law, when I read them, it feels to me like a bunch of crock. So that's probably not as good of an answer that you're looking for, but it's just how I think. I decide what I want to believe by following my heart, and I'm sorry that that sounds corny. :p

Hey, Alex:

I know what you mean about preachiness. I do think that it's okay for Christians to talk to non-Christians about God and Jesus, but they must be extremely careful not to be offending and preachy. Seek first to understand, then to be understood. GUIDE them, not PUSH them.

Phantom

September 17th, 2006, 01:07 PM

ITS BASED ON FAITH. [/B].Now could you kindly tell me why YOUR religion is correct out of the 10000's of 1000's of religions out there excluding all rival sects of course. 2. why would I put complete blind faith into anything, that I cant see touch hear. How about this I bet that if your parents never taught you christianity as a child you would never believe what you do. if a child is not taught any religious crap as a child they will regect religion everytime since its not burned into them as a child and is COMPLETLY against everything in the world and common logic, thats my theory

xTheLordsServantx

September 17th, 2006, 01:12 PM

i tend to disagree with this. i hate the idea of preaching or proclaiming the Gospel to people. because i know i hate when people do it to me. people need to find their own religion in their own way, to have someone influence them and preach to them isn't right in my opinion. in fact i think it turns people away from it all.

Jesus instructed His followers to spread His word. So i think we shuld all do it, no matter if we like it or not. Also, we have evangelism classes at my church, and it doesnt turn people away. I believe that our church has actually helped many people experience and see God's greatness.

redcar

September 17th, 2006, 01:39 PM

if you shove religion down peoples throats people will get, for want of a better phrase, pissed off. if people start pontificating about how great their religion is and how much people who are not part of it are sinners then people do get a tad pissed off with the whole carry on.

cmpcmp

September 17th, 2006, 02:16 PM

people need to find their own religion in their own way
redcar, is this to say that there is no "right" religion? how could u belive that God truley will love you and send you to heaven if you follow by one religion, when its ok for ppl to find what ever religon they want? If religions can directly contradict each other, how is it ok to be which ever one you want? What if someone were to join a cult that did really bad things but considered it a religion? is it still ok as long as they think that they are doing what God wants?

But some books, like the ones that tell stories, and the ones about law, when I read them, it feels to me like a bunch of crock.
Ok you just admited that most of the "laws" in the bible you feel are crap, so what in the hell are you following? You also don't think that most of the stories are true, so......

Since you are a christian Il assume that you belive that Jesus came, but thats a story in the bible to, what makes that true and most of the others wrong? There really isn't a good awnser for this question IMO, but u will say faith as you have said before in this thread.

I think that blind faith is probly the worst thing to rationalize with EVER. Cuz according to blind faith the suicide bombers are only doing what they belive is right, Women who cheat on their husbands should be killed, all women should wear Burquas, and if its in your religion you can't really be held accountable for any of it.

CALL IT FAITH, even when you admit that the bible has been tampered with, you still probly belive parts of it that weren't "directly inspired by god" (sounds like an excuse to me)

WTF kind of a God do most christians belive in? (i was raised catholic so i know a thing or to im not just ignorant) What kind of Dumb ass god would let humans fuck around and ultumately decide what was to go into the bible??? this makes no sense. Plus why would what God "inspired" or how ever you belive the bible was writen, directly contradict it self

-a good example is the stoning of the adultress, Jesus just came along and changed the rules on every one, so did what God wanted change? did he let humans change what he wanted? Why wouldn't he have just made a stone clad directly for the mouth of GOD bible? well he tried with moses and the ten commandments (stone clad lol), but no one agrees with Moses law anymore, but it was Gods will a few thousand years ago.

Every time something is found at fault in the bible christians make an excuse for it, they either say o the stories aren't means to be taken litteraly, the laws aren't meant to be taken literaly, really nothing is litteral, it was writen by humans so it isn't perfect, times have changed, BLA BLA BLA.... but o JESUS REALLY CAME u ask why? and they say cuz i belive the bible o thats great.

The last thing that pisses me off to no end is when christians say that God works miracles every day(or as infrequently as you belive), praying to the saints may get u a miracle (if ur catholic), "we rely on the constant intersesion of god". God sent his only son down to earth to die for us, and BLA BLA BLA

-but when i ask why God doesn't come down from the clouds on a blazing chariot of holiness and tell ppl, "hey man im the real deal" so that we can all belive in him theologans say well you need faith, and God can't just do miracles when ever he wants. HEY wait there just a minute, I thought that he was the all powerfull creator of the universe, father (or creator or = part in the trinity) with jeusus.

Why don't you take your faith and shove it up your ass, cuz u and i can use it to justify what ever the hell we want (even the existince of hell)

really we should just cut out all of the parts in the bible that we don't like so we can all justify our beliefs with it, were not to far away from the right now in this day and age.

redcar

September 17th, 2006, 02:30 PM

redcar, is this to say that there is no "right" religion? how could u belive that God truley will love you and send you to heaven if you follow by one religion, when its ok for ppl to find what ever religon they want? If religions can directly contradict each other, how is it ok to be which ever one you want? What if someone were to join a cult that did really bad things but considered it a religion? is it still ok as long as they think that they are doing what God wants?
this is my view on religion. there is no religion that is supreme or that is above any other. i believe that all religions, Christianity, Islam, Judaism etc. we are worshipping the same the same being. i dont hold any religion above any other. i am a Catholic, but i dont believe it above any other, but equal.

now that cult thingabout going around and doing bad things is right. as long as people try to live their lives good, then its ok.

redcar

September 17th, 2006, 02:34 PM

EDIT: the above sentence...
now that cult thingabout going around and doing bad things is right.
should read, "...and doing bad things isn't right."

i cant get in to edit it, so made this post cause it just looks bad otherwise.

Melchi0r

September 17th, 2006, 03:48 PM

Ravenous

September 17th, 2006, 04:22 PM

Thank you, xTheLordsServantx for finally agreeing about it being unproveable. You understand at last. I agree with Alex, you try and preach to me, I will shout at you. I will choose my religion, I don't want your help.

Makod

September 17th, 2006, 05:12 PM

There is a book called, "God: The Evidence" and it totally shows how if there were minor changes in the atomic structure of the elements, the sun would not exist. Ill give u quotes from the book, which was created by scientists, which proves that God really does exist.

So, i will no longer "force Christianity down people's throats" or try to prove that Christianity is true, because there is no proof. ITS BASED ON FAITH. But i will show you the miracles Christ has performed in my life, and then you can make the decision for yourself.

Good job!

I personally do not believe there is a god or gods, however, I know there is a chance that I may be wrong and I acknowledge(sp?) this.

I am guessing that the Bible was originally intended to be a moral guide, not the basis of a religion.

Phantom

September 17th, 2006, 06:12 PM

Good job!

the basis of a religion.LOL self owned

cmpcmp

September 17th, 2006, 06:29 PM

this is my view on religion. there is no religion that is supreme or that is above any other. i believe that all religions, Christianity, Islam, Judaism etc. we are worshipping the same the same being. i dont hold any religion above any other. i am a Catholic, but i dont believe it above any other, but equal.

now that cult thing about going around and doing bad things isn't right. as long as people try to live their lives good, then its ok.
(below wan't writen by redcar)
=====I fixed his admited gammer error that was a second post, the change is bolded=====

ok, what religion is, is" A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader." according to dictionary.com
In yout belifs and practices there are certian things you must do and other things that you must not do (sins in christianity). If you belive that not helping a dying person that you can save is a sin then you are religiously obligated to do so.

Modens day islamic extremism is a religion (a sect anyways), and they think that they glorify God and his wishes by doing what they belive that they are religiously obligated to do. Unfortunately for us ppl who aren't in their religion they belive that we must be converted by force and or be killed so we don't spread our belif/nonbelief. Who is to say that what they do isn't good and what we do is, using the rational that if u truthfully belive that what you are doing is bringing you closer to your "god" it can't really be wrong.

This brings us to my reall point. CONFLICTING BELIEFS(emphasis added)
-Christians belive that it is their religious duty to be christian and worship God (as they see him)
-Islamic extremists belive the same about there religon
-Islamic extremists belive that GOD wants them to kill anyone who won't convert

which means that they will kill any and all christians, and both sides are only doing what GOD wants them to do. You can't argue with GODS will.

SO who is to say who is wrong? if muslim extremists are trying only to save others and themselves, spiritualy (souls? do they belive in souls like christians IDK) how can they be at fault? according to ur reasoning no one is and we will just be at war forever, unless i missed something.

If what you belive is that what God wants can be reasoned, then you don't need a religion to tell you what God wants.

redcar

September 17th, 2006, 06:33 PM

Makod

September 17th, 2006, 06:41 PM

LOL self owned

Me? (filler)

Grotesque

September 17th, 2006, 07:35 PM

i think u all know already that i am a christian. But i feel like in the past, with my harsh defensive arguements, i gave the wrong impression of what a christian should be like.
Oh, we know all right. You have made it clear and reinstated the fact and shoved useless knowledge up our asses since you joined.

But as a Christian, it is my duty to Evangelize people. So, i will no longer "force Christianity down people's throats" or try to prove that Christianity is true, because there is no proof. ITS BASED ON FAITH. But i will show you the miracles Christ has performed in my life, and then you can make the decision for yourself.

You must be a pedophile. What kind of freak goes around on the internet trying to "evangelizing" young teens? God, has performed shit on you..which is why your here..on vt...a psychiatric ward...lmao. It's rather ironic...the lord's servant in a psychiatric ward...haha funny stuff!

So back to the main point, i believe Christianity is not evil or bad or horrible, but that Christians have done a poor job representing our religion, thus, we make Christianity seem evil through the eyes of someone who may not fully understand our beliefs.

What point did you have in the beginning? You are not representing your religion any better than I am representing ronald mcdonald. also, if you are "christian", we already know you think it is good. You prove nothing and no one cares.

cmpcmp

September 17th, 2006, 07:43 PM

i am not going to argue my opinion on religion with you, because its something that will be a waste of time to do. its my opinion, i know its all abstract and weird but its just how i view it. and i dont want to get into a debate over it.
ok fine, but just awnser one question then

-How do you decide what's a "cult-like" religion and what isn't, as long as they believe what they do is right and good?

keep in mind, u said

this is my view on religion. there is no religion that is supreme or that is above any other. i believe that all religions, Christianity, Islam, Judaism etc. we are worshipping the same the same being. i dont hold any religion above any other. i am a Catholic, but i dont believe it above any other, but equal.

now that cult thingabout going around and doing bad things isn't right. as long as people try to live their lives good, then its ok.

according to you, your religious beliefs don't trump theirs.
pluz couldn't Gods intelect be able to decide things that you youyrself couldn't reason?

Grotesque

September 17th, 2006, 07:56 PM

Cmpcmp boy, pick up a book on religion...you are just making yourself look stupid.

xTheLordsServantx

September 17th, 2006, 08:02 PM

Now could you kindly tell me why YOUR religion is correct out of the 10000's of 1000's of religions out there excluding all rival sects of course. 2. why would I put complete blind faith into anything, that I cant see touch hear. How about this I bet that if your parents never taught you christianity as a child you would never believe what you do. if a child is not taught any religious crap as a child they will regect religion everytime since its not burned into them as a child and is COMPLETLY against everything in the world and common logic, thats my theory

its not against common logic. If christianity is against common logic, then so is science. For example, the "Big Bang Theory". Scientists believe that some "uncaused" force created the universe. That "uncaused" forced is actually a cause, its God. Also lets use science to prove God. Theres too many coincidental things in this universe, that are perfect to not point to God. (The following quotes are from the book "God: The Evidence"):

"- Gravity is roughly 10^39 times weaker than electromagnetism. If gravity had been 10^33 times weaker than electromagnetism, stars would be a billion times less massive and would burn a million times faster

- The nuclear weak force is 10^28 times the strength of gravity. Had the weak force been slightly weaker, all the hydrogen in the universe would have turned to become Helium (making water impossible)

- A stronger nuclear strong force (by as little as 2%) would have prevented the formation of protons - yielding a universe without atoms. Decreasing it by 5% would have given us a universe without stars

- If the difference in mass between a proton and a neutron were not exactly as it is - roughly twice the mass of an electron - then all neutrons would have become protons or vice versa. Say goodbye to chemistry as we know it-and to life.

- The very nature of water - so vital to life - is something of a mystery (a point noticed by one of the forerunners of anthropic reasoning in the 19th century, Harvard Biologist Lawrence Henderson). Unique among the molecules, water is lighter in its solid than liquid form: Ice floats. If it did not, the oceans would freeze from the bottom up and earth would now be covered with solid ice. This property in turn is traceable to unique properties of the hydrogen atom"

These are only a few of the examples, which the author proves point to God. Although Patrick Glynn gives readers significant evidence towards God, an athiest can disprove all of his "proof". When it comes down to it, its all about faith. Its taking a step into the dark, which over half the worlds population is already in. I ask you, what is the down side of believing in God. Look, if He is real, then u will go to heaven. If He is not real, then you have been a good person. Think about it, there are no negatives which can come out of believing in God and being a Christian.

redcar

September 17th, 2006, 08:04 PM

ok fine, but just awnser one question then

-How do you decide what's a "cult-like" religion and what isn't, as long as they believe what they do is right and good?

keep in mind, u said

according to you, your religious beliefs don't trump theirs.
pluz couldn't Gods intelect be able to decide things that you youyrself couldn't reason?
cult is just a word.

i could pick up a spoon and say and believe it is a fork, but it doesnt make it a fork. like they could believe that killing people is right, but it doesnt make it right. i just go by common sense really. if a group of people go about killin people i dont think its right, cause it just isnt.

now i dont want to argue anymore so dont ask me any more questions.

Melchi0r

September 17th, 2006, 08:40 PM

Thank you for posting that, LordsServant. Even with a bunch of things being able to be scientfically explained in our universe, there's still that mystery even when we figure out how things work. And the Big Bang can't be right if someone's using it as a theory against God. The Big Bang theory says that everything in the Universe was condensed into one little speck of energy and matter. And then it exploded and objects formed (stars) and things orbited the stars (planets) and then planets got moons. Okay. But where did the little speck of matter and energy come from??

Makod

September 17th, 2006, 08:54 PM

How about this I bet that if your parents never taught you christianity as a child you would never believe what you do. if a child is not taught any religious crap as a child they will regect religion everytime since its not burned into them as a child and is COMPLETLY against everything in the world and common logic, thats my theory

My parents brought me up as a Roman Catholic, they brought me to church every Sunday, and I turned out to be an atheist. If the child has a strong enough will he/she will find their own beliefs.

(The following quotes are from the book "God: The Evidence"):

"- Gravity is roughly 10^39 times weaker than electromagnetism. If gravity had been 10^33 times weaker than electromagnetism, stars would be a billion times less massive and would burn a million times faster

- The nuclear weak force is 10^28 times the strength of gravity. Had the weak force been slightly weaker, all the hydrogen in the universe would have turned to become Helium (making water impossible)

- A stronger nuclear strong force (by as little as 2%) would have prevented the formation of protons - yielding a universe without atoms. Decreasing it by 5% would have given us a universe without stars

- If the difference in mass between a proton and a neutron were not exactly as it is - roughly twice the mass of an electron - then all neutrons would have become protons or vice versa. Say goodbye to chemistry as we know it-and to life.

- The very nature of water - so vital to life - is something of a mystery (a point noticed by one of the forerunners of anthropic reasoning in the 19th century, Harvard Biologist Lawrence Henderson). Unique among the molecules, water is lighter in its solid than liquid form: Ice floats. If it did not, the oceans would freeze from the bottom up and earth would now be covered with solid ice. This property in turn is traceable to unique properties of the hydrogen atom"

These things cannot be used to prove a god or gods, these are just facts about "If such and such, then there would be etc. etc."

i could pick up a spoon and say and believe it is a fork, but it doesnt make it a fork. like they could believe that killing people is right, but it doesnt make it right. i just go by common sense really. if a group of people go about killin people i dont think its right, cause it just isnt.

I believe there is no such thing as right or wrong, just opinions and perspectives. However just because I believe this does not make it true, it is just my opinion.

kolte

September 17th, 2006, 09:51 PM

You are a conglamerate of atoms. You are going to die and loose all consiousness. You are going to hurt the majority of your life. You will probably die alone. There is no god, this universe is ageless, it was just there because there is no not there. But then is there? Whats beyond the universe? Whats beyond that and that? Is the universe forever? If so, then how can that be? Forever? Are we here just because. how big is this world really? Are we just atoms oursleves? Is this the real universe? Atoms withen atoms repeating. Forever. Lives withen death. Death withen lives. crazy.

There is no such thing as life or death. We are an assortment of atoms. Our consiousness is an electrical current. We are robots. Bow to yoru mind, It is the mircial!

xTheLordsServantx

September 17th, 2006, 10:02 PM

Cmpcmp boy, pick up a book on religion...you are just making yourself look stupid.

Oh, we know all right. You have made it clear and reinstated the fact and shoved useless knowledge up our asses since you joined.

You must be a pedophile. What kind of freak goes around on the internet trying to "evangelizing" young teens? God, has performed shit on you..which is why your here..on vt...a psychiatric ward...lmao. It's rather ironic...the lord's servant in a psychiatric ward...haha funny stuff!

What point did you have in the beginning? You are not representing your religion any better than I am representing ronald mcdonald. also, if you are "christian", we already know you think it is good. You prove nothing and no one cares.

You are very offensive and kinda mean

cmpcmp

September 17th, 2006, 11:29 PM

Cmpcmp boy, pick up a book on religion...you are just making yourself look stupid.
Im making myself look stupid by....? it seems like you never say anything constructive as said by xTheLordsServantx.
now i dont want to argue anymore so dont ask me any more questions.
Were on a discussion board about religion.......

plus one of the reasons that some ppl "hate" christianity is that it has become so liberal (not in a political sense, necesarily) that you can really believe almost anything that you want and you will still be accepted as a christian. To go one step further the Bible can be interpereted almost however you want, and can justify a ton of things that aren't acceptable in todays
"first world society" using it. (as opposed to "third world").

IS there a second world? cuz no one ever says second world.

redcar

September 18th, 2006, 03:09 AM

Were on a discussion board about religion.......

very true, but it is a discussion about Religion, not Alex's Religion.

it is true that Christianity has got liberal, but it does stand to reason when it is the biggest single religion on the planet, that there will emerge numerous variations and something to suit everyone.

and yes there is a second world, or at least there was one. it wasnt that popular but it did refer to the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe where it had its influence, Cuba would also have been considered second world.

Ravenous

September 18th, 2006, 06:23 AM

You are very offensive and kinda mean
But hes right. You need to get use to the way this world works, not everyone is your nice average christian. Not everyone is gonna agree with your beliefs, don't try and make them. 'Mean'? what are you 8 years old? Grow up.

Grotesque

September 18th, 2006, 07:03 AM

You are very offensive and kinda mean

I think I'll go to church next sunday to cleanse my filthy soul. Thanks for the encouragement.

Melchi0r

September 18th, 2006, 02:33 PM

Hi-

We've kinda strayed from the main subject of this thread. I didn't mean for this thread to be debating God's existence, even though I knew it'd go there. This thread is more about what a good Christian should be like, and if you are atheist, please don't say "All Christians are idiots, God doesn't exist." Please either think like there is a God or just stay out of the discussion. I don't hate atheists, but God's existence isn't what I made this thread about.

xTheLordsServantx

September 18th, 2006, 04:23 PM

But hes right. You need to get use to the way this world works, not everyone is your nice average christian. Not everyone is gonna agree with your beliefs, don't try and make them. 'Mean'? what are you 8 years old? Grow up.

Im 15, and why are you so offensive on every single post of yours. i wass reading some of ur past posts, and u say some very very offensive things. Why?

Melchi0r

September 18th, 2006, 04:45 PM

Here's a tip:

Just ignore him.

I used to spend lots of time wondering why people decided to be jerks (not Ravenous specifically ;D, but lots of people), and it only got me more angry. Then I realized: Be apathetic.

Makod

September 18th, 2006, 05:18 PM

? Appathetic? How bout just ignore it?

Grotesque

September 18th, 2006, 06:17 PM

Im 15, and why are you so offensive on every single post of yours. i wass reading some of ur past posts, and u say some very very offensive things. Why?
it's the debate forum, dumbass.
What were you expecting? Please evangelize people else where.
Christianity is hated because the followers are linked with the rupublican party...which undoubtly sucks. Christianity is nothing more than a bunch of shallow-minded idiots that are afraid to speak their mind and let their ever-changing religion get our country into as much trouble as it finds. negative...but true

Also, tim is not a jerk. his statements are true and factual. he actually manages to back up his info instead of exploiting outrageous amounts of bs

Phantom

September 18th, 2006, 06:25 PM

it's the debate forum, dumbass.
What were you expecting? Please evangelize people else where.
Christianity is hated because the followers are linked with the rupublican party...which undoubtly sucks. Christianity is nothing more than a bunch of shallow-minded idiots that are afraid to speak their mind and let their ever-changing religion get our country into as much trouble as it finds. negative...but true

Also, tim is not a jerk. his statements are true and factual. he actually manages to back up his info instead of exploiting outrageous amounts of bsHow are you not banned yet?:confused: and btw republicans are awsome.

Grotesque

September 18th, 2006, 06:30 PM

How are you not banned yet?:confused: and btw republicans are awsome.

Because I'm expressing my opinon. I'm a strong-willed person that doesn't get kicked around by others my age. I'm smart and many here love me, unlike you. You're a republican...I should have known.

Bobby

September 18th, 2006, 06:33 PM

How are you not banned yet?:confused: and btw republicans are awsome.

He has been banned. I wouldn't argue with him.

Grotesque

September 18th, 2006, 06:34 PM

He has been banned. I wouldn't argue with him.

Yes, listen to someone who has been so fortunate to deal with me.

Bobby

September 18th, 2006, 06:36 PM

All I can do is smile.

Phantom

September 18th, 2006, 07:00 PM

Because I'm expressing my opinon. I'm a strong-willed person that doesn't get kicked around by others my age. I'm smart and many here love me, unlike you. You're a republican...I should have known.LOL judgeing by your past posts I thought you were a rebuplican too. Why dont you like republicans, truth hurt:rolleyes:

Melchi0r

September 18th, 2006, 07:34 PM

? Appathetic? How bout just ignore it?

Apathy falls under the category of "ignoring it", actually.

I think the reason that Christians are hated is because they try to evangelize everybody.

And when I say "they", I don't mean all Christians, it's just that it seems like social groups are classified and judged altogether by just the bad people from that social group, which really sucks.

Grotesque

September 18th, 2006, 07:36 PM

LOL judgeing by your past posts I thought you were a rebuplican too. Why dont you like republicans, truth hurt:rolleyes:

You say that my posts are bad and then think that my posts would be examples of what a republican would post. You also claim to be a republican. Do you hate yourself? Also, I'm not going into a deep discussion about my believes with someone I don't particularly care about. That would be a waste of time.

Ravenous

September 19th, 2006, 12:33 PM

Im 15, and why are you so offensive on every single post of yours. i wass reading some of ur past posts, and u say some very very offensive things. Why?
I speak my mind, if I don't agree with what you say, you will hear about it.
Here's a tip:

Just ignore him.

I used to spend lots of time wondering why people decided to be jerks (not Ravenous specifically ;D, but lots of people), and it only got me more angry. Then I realized: Be apathetic.
Ignoring me will probably mess up debates and you will not see lots of the important points I make :)

Also, tim is not a jerk. his statements are true and factual. he actually manages to back up his info instead of exploiting outrageous amounts of bs
Ta
x

Melchi0r

September 19th, 2006, 02:16 PM

cmpcmp

September 19th, 2006, 06:52 PM

Christianity is nothing more than a bunch of shallow-minded idiots that are afraid to speak their mind and let their ever-changing religion get our country into as much trouble as it finds. negative...but true

i don't agree with this statement and heres why:
-Christianity is always changing, this is true. but it is becuase of the changing opinions of what ppl in the church think.
-years ago maybe, a fair amount of ppl probly would do something only because of what is in the bible or what the pope said.
-Today most christians agree with the church and on a large portion of issuse the church agrees with them, IMO the is because of what the ppl believe and not vise vera.

Not many ppl these days (at least in america and the first world) blindly follow the church. IMO the church does follow the ppl. The ppl aren't weakminded and pupeteered by the church, the ppl are for the most part independent of the church.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
let me share a little bit of my personal experience.
-I was born catholic, baptized, church most sundays, first communion and all that jazz.
-when i was little, like every body else when they are little, i took my religion for granted.
-growing up i truely belived that God had a son Jesus, and Moses w/ the ten commandments, adam and eve, and all that.
-around probly 5th grade i was intoduced to the idea, (and understood some what) of nonliteral interperitation of the bible. This was very limited as it was really only that say "maybe" Noas arc wan't reall but it was a story God used to tell us things, so not a lie or a fabrication just a tool. t
-This didn't cause me to rexamine my beliefs or anything like that.
-through the beginning of middle school i came to the realization that i can't hear God, he doesn't talk to me, I can't see him or anything physical in any way. So how do i know he exists? while the church teaches faith and i think i still had some blind faith in me. I would think about it and kind of argue with my self, i sort of came to the conclusion that even if Christianity wasn't "right" as far as Jesus coming and what not, the belifs they teach didn't hurt anyone and who would it hurt to belive that?, what if it was right? if i didn't believe it would i have gone to Hell or something like that?
-I was lying to myself just for the sake of not changing what had already been and what was easy, plus i was genuinel scared. The entire time that this was going on as i learned further knowledge of what the church has/hasn't been and I was falling further and further away from 'faith' but still had a considerable amount.
-The only things i had left at the begining of highschool was not changing for the sake of not changing, and a some faith. This faith was mainly becuase the church happened to belive almost everything that i did about social issuses, really nothing more, but i still keept some blind faith. It is very very hard to abandom what you had belived and what had been pounded into you for years. Plus my family is Catholic especialy my cousin's family (immediate family) who i am very close to.
-At that time i still would have called myself catholic, and i was going to a catholic school, and a catholic church.
-Freshman year it all came together, in Religion class we learned about differen't theories on the bible and the one thing that most noticeably killed what faith I had left was that my teacher tryed to reason to the class that maybe the Jesus miracle of the fish into 100's of fish was really a miracle of ppl sharing what they had and making every thing workout. It wasn't the idea it was the blaitent attempt to rationalize the 'divine' that out me in the most akward position ever.
===on one hand, could say that maybe it was and w/e, which would mean that maybe none of the miracles were true, but my faith was telling me that they were true. On the other hand i could say no they were true ur wrong, but I didn't truely believe this and couldn't say it. I belive that that by the end of that day 95% of my blief on any level was gone.
-later i was lerning about the differnet injustuces of the church the perrils of blind faith and all of that, discrepencies in the bible and the man madeness of it all.
-From that point on I was really just in it on the cultural level of my community. but that made me feel guilty like i was lying to myself, and to every body elese.
(don't worry if uv been reading alng this is the last part)
-not since seventh grade had i really alowed by belifs to tell me what to do in any meaningful way, but the final part of me that still trying to maintain the former status quo died probly only three weeks ago.

-I found my self at a nonoptional school mass and was just going along with what was going on to be polite/and w/e for the whole first part of the mass. When communion came around (where you eat the eucharist) a minister (not the priests) gave the usual foreword about recieving a blessing, the approximately same on that i had heard for 15 years. some thing like
"If you are catholic you may come forward at this time and recive eucharist, if you don't belive as we (the church) then we request that you instead recieve a blessing"
this was a perdicament for me, i didn't belive in my heart that it was really the body of christ and that it was anyhting more than a pice of bread, but i went along with it and as i have done for years recieved communion and ate it, but this time with no faith at all, the bread tasted and was the exact same as usual.
-my faith was completely gone in all forms, not that it had really been anything meaningful in my life right before then
-------------------------------------------------------

Now i am here, I go to a catholic school, my family belings to a catholic church (my family is by no means 'strict' catholics at all) and I don't belive in any of it, but im supposed to be "confirmed" (a sacrament) a catholic in a year and every body but some of my immediate family members thinks im catholic..... i feel like im lying if i just go with the flow.....

that is my experience

Grotesque

September 19th, 2006, 07:08 PM

kolte

September 19th, 2006, 08:15 PM

You say that my posts are bad and then think that my posts would be examples of what a republican would post. You also claim to be a republican. Do you hate yourself? Also, I'm not going into a deep discussion about my believes with someone I don't particularly care about. That would be a waste of time.

Austin I lub you! n.n

wha wha wha, they killed my family! lol. *im a little manic right now*

there is no welcome to the real world jazz. There is no real world, We are all just programs of our mind.

Grotesque

September 19th, 2006, 09:10 PM

Kolte, you need a hug. :yes:
I just can't find the nifty smiley to do so.

kolte

September 19th, 2006, 09:20 PM

I'm so alone T.T

Hold me >>

Makod

September 19th, 2006, 09:24 PM

OMG YOU GUYS ARE SPAMMING :ban: ............. lol j/k

But, you are getting off topic lol

kolte

September 19th, 2006, 09:26 PM

I know, totally *spanks self*

I'm totally out of control. So yeah, no more posting from me untill I quit trippin. But untill then.

Christian moality is at stake. There mindless disastars they are. There fancy houses and cars killing the envonment.

I don't know about you, but i like clean air and water, thats why I ride a bike to work everyday, and thats why I am part of the undergound enviornmentalist movement of america. muahahahaha. you suck. die.

Makod

September 19th, 2006, 09:29 PM

I don't know about you, but i like clean air and water, thats why I ride a bike to work everyday
QFT
muahahahaha. you suck. die.

:cry2: ::slits wrist::

cmpcmp

September 19th, 2006, 09:57 PM

Ghee, im so fucking sorry. your life is so hard...not sure if you should trust jesus....hmmm...welcome to life with just about every other american!
Does this religious struggle also affect your ability to make challenging arguments?
i never said my life was hard, in comparison to most ppl out there my life is a cakewalk, and i don't deny that.

The point was that a lot of ppl who were raised christian or who know how the church works and how ppl are born into it. What pisses them off, and me to a certian extent, is that

The church.....
-doesn't heave to "earn" your faith or anyhing like that you are basicly brainwashed into it from day one.
-the church and the bible teach things like
â€œAnd without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Himâ€ (Hebrews 11:6). will you go to hell if you don't believe in him?
-Every time something is "wrong" with the bible historicly or factualy the interperitation changes, but often (as lately as evolution, minus the killin) only after ppl have been opressed or killed. The same is true with when ppl start to dissagree with a moral issue in the bible, at one point in time the catholic church was against recieveing interest on loans? i mean WTF.

The point is the church can recruit ppl into it since they were born and then after that point they are afraid that their SOUL is at risk if they stop beliving they think that they may burn in an eternal firey hell.

Many ppl see the catholic church as an institution that is holding us back and keeping us in the past, i don't see it this way, as IMO the church has very little power over modern americans.

Phantom

September 19th, 2006, 10:01 PM

IMO the church has very little power over modern americans.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_EKHK1C2IE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq8zq7SE02I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef4UiNLRH4A

I beg to differ. There is a church on every street corner these people hold power in all branches of goverment in america. This is one of my major dislikes about the conservitive party.

cmpcmp

September 19th, 2006, 10:39 PM

Any one whos in the "arm of jesus" or w/e thats seriously messed up, but he video said that they make up 25% of the population i don't belive that. If 25% of americans were religious fenatics then there would be a lot more abortion clinic bombings on the news.
How come no one has killed Hanity or colmes for speaking against them? are they patrolig this board?
-I think that any where near 25% is a huge exadgeration of how many ppl are like the ppl in the videos.
-in the video they talk about how that specific church in the hanity and colmes video isn't afiliated with any other "main stream" chuches, it has 100 ppl in at and they are all related to eachother or 80%.

-the last video is a TV clip on a REALITY SHOW, take it at face value. IF uv seen other reality shows you should know that most of them are COMPLETELY scripted and that the others are simply suggested to say certian things, and also redoing videos to put them in later and stuff like that.

the ppl (type of ppl) in these videos do exist (i don't know about the reality TV one) but unless iv been missing alot of stuff i don't see what should be the symptoms of having a fundamentalism regime like force in my backyard.

Melchi0r

September 20th, 2006, 03:45 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_EKHK1C2IE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq8zq7SE02I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef4UiNLRH4A

I beg to differ. There is a church on every street corner these people hold power in all branches of goverment in america. This is one of my major dislikes about the conservitive party.

I LOVE the third video. It's so funny. If she was screaming about them, it's so stupid how she'd say angrily "They're on my prayer list every night till the day I die!" Those people in those videos are the reason that people don't like Christians. My church is good: if you go and disagree with theories about Christian morality and the Bible and stuff, they don't care, because they think you should find your own beliefs about God and Jesus.

Grotesque

September 20th, 2006, 04:25 PM

will you go to hell if you don't believe in him?

Do I seem like the kind of person that is so unstable that I need a book to help me live my life? I am not easy to convince, nor will I ever be. It is not just a coincidence that some of the most intelligent people in the world aren't christians. Nearly all scientist and philosophers are not.

Melchi0r

September 20th, 2006, 04:34 PM

Do I seem like the kind of person that is so unstable that I need a book to help me live my life? I am not easy to convince, nor will I ever be. It is not just a coincidence that some of the most intelligent people in the world aren't christians. Nearly all scientist and philosophers are not.

Name some brilliant people that weren't Christians?

Phantom

September 20th, 2006, 04:51 PM

Name some brilliant people that weren't Christians?
even though this isnt directed at me I cant resist. Albert Einstein. Charles darwin Abraham Lincoln. Just to name a few. Here watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWtb0M6_iJ8

cmpcmp

September 21st, 2006, 11:05 PM

will you go to hell if you don't believe in him?

CLARIFICATION
-i know that that post was too long so yea....
That was my personal question (to myself) not what i belive, or would ever tell other ppl to belive. I said that it was wrong the way the church (most christian churches anyways) tells ppl they will go to hell if they fall away form christ, or something similar.

-have you found jesus? kind of a thing

Grotesque

September 22nd, 2006, 04:07 PM

CLARIFICATION
-i know that that post was too long so yea....
That was my personal question (to myself) not what i belive, or would ever tell other ppl to belive. I said that it was wrong the way the church (most christian churches anyways) tells ppl they will go to hell if they fall away form christ, or something similar.

-have you found jesus? kind of a thing

No, I wouldn't even question finding him. he isnt here.

Melchi0r

September 22nd, 2006, 08:04 PM

That Jesus camp one freaked me out.

Me too. I think the concept of bringing Jesus back is kinda odd and somewhere Christians shouldn't go. Jesus should decide when to come back himself, and all we as Christians can do is wait.

kolte

September 23rd, 2006, 10:34 PM

why did god make the earth if he was just going to destroy it? why doesnt he just fix it? Christianity is retarded. God is a dumb idea. People should be concerned with the hear and now, not something that they cant have any control over

Melchi0r

September 24th, 2006, 09:36 AM

Some Christians would hate me for it, but I don't necessarily believe in an "end of the world". I think Jesus will return but God's not gonna destroy the world.

xTheLordsServantx

September 24th, 2006, 09:20 PM

i never said my life was hard, in comparison to most ppl out there my life is a cakewalk, and i don't deny that.

The point was that a lot of ppl who were raised christian or who know how the church works and how ppl are born into it. What pisses them off, and me to a certian extent, is that

The church.....
-doesn't heave to "earn" your faith or anyhing like that you are basicly brainwashed into it from day one.
-the church and the bible teach things like
will you go to hell if you don't believe in him?
-Every time something is "wrong" with the bible historicly or factualy the interperitation changes, but often (as lately as evolution, minus the killin) only after ppl have been opressed or killed. The same is true with when ppl start to dissagree with a moral issue in the bible, at one point in time the catholic church was against recieveing interest on loans? i mean WTF.

The point is the church can recruit ppl into it since they were born and then after that point they are afraid that their SOUL is at risk if they stop beliving they think that they may burn in an eternal firey hell.

Many ppl see the catholic church as an institution that is holding us back and keeping us in the past, i don't see it this way, as IMO the church has very little power over modern americans.

Wow, i truely feel bad that u have turned your back on the clearly lighted path going to God. Could He be any more obvious? Let me tell u a story:

About a year ago, i was going to church, and i had to cross the street to get into church. My parents were ahead, and brother was behind me. I absent-mindedly began to cross the street. But as i began to walk, something yanked me back, and a car wizzed right past me. It was one of His angels. He saved me because He knew i had a higher purpose to serve!

I am so sorry u have denied the obvious truth. Look at our world. Its not just a ton of "coincidences" Also, if u were to give a 8 year old child a gun, and u had not told him/her that killing was bad (in our sociological measures), and he/she shot someone and killed them, i can guarantee he/she would feel bad. THATS OUR SOUL. THAT IS GOD INSIDE OF US. But i know i cannot change ur minds because all of u are so close-minded. So, i will do what i know how to do best when i need His help. I will pray.

But i have a quick question for u guys to just think about:
What is so bad about believing in God?
Look: if he is real, then u will be able to go into heaven and have everlasting life. If he is not real, yet u have followed the Bible, u have been a better person in life. There is no negatives, its a win/win situation. I dont see why people deny God. For me, there is so much evidence, but whenever u people ask me to show it to u, u reject it. So, dont ever ask me for evidence again. Because its about 1 word: FAITH. Not "blind walking"

Phantom

September 24th, 2006, 10:31 PM

Wow, i truely feel bad that u have turned your back on the clearly lighted path going to God. Could He be any more obvious? Let me tell u a story:

About a year ago, i was going to church, and i had to cross the street to get into church. My parents were ahead, and brother was behind me. I absent-mindedly began to cross the street. But as i began to walk, something yanked me back, and a car wizzed right past me. It was one of His angels. He saved me because He knew i had a higher purpose to serve!

I am so sorry u have denied the obvious truth. Look at our world. Its not just a ton of "coincidences" Also, if u were to give a 8 year old child a gun, and u had not told him/her that was bad (in our sociological measures), and he/she shot someone and killed them, i can guarantee he/she would feel bad. THATS OUR SOUL. THAT IS GOD INSIDE OF US. But i know i cannot change ur minds because all of u are so close-minded. So, i will do what i know how to do best when i need His help. I will pray.

But i have a quick question for u guys to just think about:
What is so bad about believing in God?
Look: if he is real, then u will be able to go into heaven and have everlasting life. If he is not real, yet u have followed the Bible, u have been a better person in life. There is no negatives, its a win/win situation. I dont see why people deny God. For me, there is so much evidence, but whenever u people ask me to show it to u, u reject it. So, dont ever ask me for evidence again. Because its about 1 word: FAITH. Not "blind walking"Yes it is "blind walking". And accualy if you never taught a child that was bad or it was good they would have no remorse. Look at the middle east for a prime example of this, I have a video of a 3 year old that already s jews. Children over there are basicly taught that jews is good thus they blow themselfs up or try to because they where never taught it was bad. ^THIS is exactly why I am strongly against teaching children under 13 14 maybe even 15 any sort of religion, teaching morals is fine but religion no. It is brainwashing. I will tell you for a fact that is YOU were not taught christianity as "correct" you would not believe it for a second. You would basicly say the same stuff against it as we do.

Edit* I am sure I am going to get flamed by some politicly correct lib about the muslim thing.

cmpcmp

September 24th, 2006, 10:55 PM

Wow, i truely feel bad that u have turned your back on the clearly lighted path going to God.
clearly litten? give me a break, do you know how many religion there are out there? better yet how many christian denominations there are? about as clear as dirt.

It was one of His angels He saved me because He knew i had a higher purpose to serve!
did he tell you that in person or divinely? how come ppl of other religion swear that they have been saved by their god(s)? are they lying?
do these angels hide from video cameras? or are they invisible to nonbelivers or something like that? why doesn't God come down from heaven and show us undeniably that he exists?
-You will say that faith is faith and quote that "blessed is he who belives with out proof" or something similar. Some of the early church leaders knew jesus, is their faith less that your cuz u never saw it happen?

I am so sorry u have denied the obvious truth. Look at our world. Its not just a ton of "coincidences"
The fact of the matter is, there had to be an universe some how, I personaly belive that it was created, but i don't know if humans were intentional or anything like that. It could have just been random and eventualy we are here. The statistical chance of that is basicly 0 but the statistical chance of ur exact DNA structure is also basicly 0, but u exist, what are the chances? there IS NO WAY TO KNOW.

i can guarantee he/she would feel bad. THATS OUR SOUL.
ever heard of a BRAIN, you are born knowing certian things in the form of feelings. If a baby dies i feel sader than if an old person died, did i have to reason it all out in my head and use what society has told me? NO i just know. Why are most ppl atracted to other humans sexualy? did society tell us that to? Belive it or not u are born with some feelings.

i cannot change ur minds because all of u are so close-minded.
close minded is to not be willing to change your mind even in light of knew facts, or not listening to the facts to reason with or refusing to reason with the facts you have. The nonchristians here have done nothing of the sort.

For me, there is so much evidence, but whenever u people ask me to show it to u, u reject it. So, dont ever ask me for evidence again. Because its about 1 word: FAITH. Not "blind walking"

To have faith you must belive "without seeing" meaning you must take a "leap of faith" that isn't possible to be rationalized, or reasoned fully. Does your faith call you to belive that Jesus rose after three days? Well what if mine calls me to belive it was 2 days? you can't reason me out of it cuz urs is only based on faith also, (plus a selfadmitedly altered and man writen book).

But i have a quick question for u guys to just think about: What is so bad about believing in God? Look: if he is real, then u will be able to go into heaven and have everlasting life. If he is not real, yet u have followed the Bible, u have been a better person in life. There is no negatives, its a win/win situation. I dont see why people deny God.
No matter how you spinn it there is blind faith involved in Christianity. Blind faith any where in anything is a terrible thing. Cuz if you do wrong with it you say it isn't wrong becuse its what u belive (see how ilogical that is?).

NOTHING WRONG WITH FAITH (blind) If u belive in you faith it can call you to do anything like....
-Some thing like the crusades where innocents were intnetionaly killed by the 1000's cuz they were jewish/muslim
-All infidels need to to converted or killed (think spanish conquistadors)
-woman whould be lesser/wear veils/or other extreme things like that (in christianity)
-pay the church to not make you go the pergatory
-deny science (evolution, heliocentric view of solar system)
-Say that the kings in power were put there by god and it would be wrong to make them leave.
.....and many other things

"Faith" that isn't backed completely by reasoning is dangerous, and can lead to very bad things.

cmpcmp

September 24th, 2006, 11:03 PM

Yes it is "blind walking". And accualy if you never taught a child that was bad or it was good they would have no remorse. Look at the middle east for a prime example of this, I have a video of a 3 year old that already s jews. Children over there are basicly taught that jews is good thus they blow themselfs up or try to because they where never taught it was bad. ^THIS is exactly why I am strongly against teaching children under 13 14 maybe even 15 any sort of religion, teaching morals is fine but religion no. It is brainwashing. I will tell you for a fact that is YOU were not taught christianity as "correct" you would not believe it for a second. You would basicly say the same stuff against it as we do.

Edit* I am sure I am going to get flamed by some politicly correct lib about the muslim thing.
This is about ur post but not a flame. The kids u speak of have been brainwashed, that is why they feel no remorse,

Are you saying that you must be taught something to feel or think that it is wrong?

Your anti-brainwashing thing is interesting, i would like to see what percent of ppl never formaly "religiousitized" would think if it was attempted when they were 15.
It only makes logical sense, u aren't allowed to make the importiant desisions for yourself untill your 18 for genetic and brain deveolopment reasons, so why not apply the same reasoning to religion?