The war in Iraq(debate)

[kolte]

What do you think about this 'war'? Is our being there justified still. Or are we wasting our time now. And what about George Bush. Is he really a good leader?

[Phantom]

George bush is not the best leader but he is strong. I personly would have liked to invade Iran instead of Iraq, but good still came from it establish a democracy in the middle east besides isreal which will make other countrys want freedom once they see how happy Iraq is. And just to free the people.

[0=]

It's bullshit, no, he's a dumbass.


The original reason for going to war was the suspicion that they had WMD, we never found any. Then they said because of 9/11, but Saddam didn't have anything to do with it. We can't fight the terrorists, we can't tell who they are, it's like in Vietnam, they sent children armed with grenades, the soldiers wouldn't know they had them until it was too late.

We can't remain there, as long as we're killing people and pissing them off, there will always be more enemies. We're just needlessly killing, we need to pull out and let them deal with their own problems, and stop giving arms to Israel. By removing Saddam we further destabilized the region, now Iran, Syria, And Lebanon are free to trade arms through Iraq.

He isn't really in charge, he's a puppet, cheney and the lobbyists are controlling everything. Bush is like a robot programmed to say "terrah", "terrahists", "nucular weapons", "war on terrah", 9/11, national security, bomb, and airport as many times as possible to scare the living shit out of us so we can keep fighting, so Bush, Cheney, the other politicians, and the corporations get as much money as possible. He has wasted a shitload of money, and is going to be remembered as the worst president in history.

[kolte]

The War in Iraq was a grave mistake. Homeland security is in ruins. You see, what our republican majority of congress has allowed the Bush Administration to do, is utterly destroy our country’s national security. Even Newt Gingrich, one of the fathers of the modern day Republican Party, has lost faith in the Bush administration. In reference to the Republican Party he as said and I quote.

“They are seen by the country as being in charge of a government that can't function…."

- Newt Gingrich

“He cited a series of blunders under Republican Rule, from failures in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina to mismanagement of the War in Iraq. He… said the government has squandered billions of dollars in Iraq. He noted that a Congressional Watchdog agency recently smuggled a truck carrying nuclear material into the country to test security. ‘Why isn’t the president pounding on the table? Why isn’t he sending up 16 reform bills?”

- Knight Ridder Newspapers

I mean, just consider the following:

Osama bin Laden is still at large

Afghanistan is still insecure

Iraq is still violent

North Korea and Iran arestill building nuclearweapons and missile

Terrorist recruiting is still occurring in the U.S., Canada, Great Britain and across the planet.

Only 6% of all cargo ships coming in and out of the United States are inspected!



And hey, forget Iraq, what about America. Let’s see some of George Bushes budgeting at work.

Helping Citizens with Job Training

Iraq:
$60 million for demobilizing and job
training for 130,000 enemy combatants.
$353 million for American-Iraqi Enterprise
Fund and job training

America:
23.8 percent cut ($316 million) in
vocational education, despite President’s
promise to create “Jobs for the 21st
Century” program
$151 million cut in adult training,
dislocated worker activities, employment
service state grants, and grants to states for
reemployment services

Providing Access to Higher Education

Iraq:
$20 million for Higher Education and
Development (HEAD) projects, creating
US-IraqiUniversity partnerships to expand
access to higher education for all Iraqis

America:
60.3 percent cut ($101 million) for
Perkins Loans, and $327 million cut in
Pell Grants, closing the door to higher
education opportunities for millions of
lower income students

Expanding Literacy

Iraq:
$40 million for building 275 schools and
training 10,000 teachers

America:
$8 million cut for reading programs from
Department of Education

Providing Children with Basic Skills

Iraq:
USAID Accelerated Learning Program
provides intensive personal education to
low income and at risk Iraqi children

America:
2.5 percent ($177 million) funding for
Head Start by 2006, even though head Start
currently can only serve 13.5 % of eligible
children because of funding restrictions
http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/emanuel.pdf (http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/emanuel.pdf)


Has this administration forgotten about us? I mean, really. Has it?

Let’s look at some good things we have done in Iraq!

$850 million for rebuilding hospitals and
150 clinics; replacement of medical
equipment; and providing basic health
care to more than half Iraq’s population
$3.557 billion for water and sewage
services repair and improvement
$153 million for solid waste management
$775 million for water resources
improvement
$875 million for irrigation and wetlands
restoration
$2.83 billion for safe drinking water
programs
$470 million for the construction of
housing and public buildings for Iraqi
citizens


Let’s look at some…….things we have done in America!

8.5 percent cut over five years to Veterans
Administration health care services, forcing
likely cuts in medical services and possible
VA hospital closures
36.7 percent cut ($500 million) to Clean
Water State Revolving Funds, which
provides loans for improving wastewater
treatment facilities
14.7 percent cut ($23.9 billion) from 2005
to 2009 in all discretionary funding for
environmental protection programs
Elimination of HOPE VI Program
$28 million cut in public housing
maintenance
$791 million cut in Section 8 Vouchers,
forcing 250,000 families from private
housing back into public housing or
homelessness
http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/emanuel2.pdf (http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/emanuel2.pdf)

I really must say I’m not impressed.


Our priorities should be:

Implementing the 9/11 Commission recommendations
Raising the minimum wage
Lowering prescription drug costs for seniors
Increasing Pell Grants
Rolling back subsidies for Big Oil
PayGo
Comprehensive immigration reform


And what about our economy? I mean, helping homeland security actually has the potential to help the American economy! We spend about 8 billion dollars a MONTH on the war in Iraq. Imagine if we turned that money to America! Strengthen our borders. Improving our education! Healthcare! Pell Grants! Raise Minimum wage! Buy equipment to inspect cargo ships. Create tons of new jobs with all these improvements.

WE ARE IN DEBT. We keep borrowing money, and in the last 4 years have borrowed over a trillion dollars from foreign countries! That’s crazy. We owe Japan 682 billion dollars. We owe China 249 billion dollars. We owe the UK 223 billion dollars. We owe Caribbean 115 billion dollars! We owe Taiwan 71 billion dollars. OPEC – 67 billion. Germany – 65 Billion. Korea – 66 billion. Canada – 53 billion.
http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/foreignmap.pdf (http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/foreignmap.pdf)

We keep digging deeper and deeper into a deficit! http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/budgetpicture.pdf (http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/budgetpicture.pdf)
http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/BUDGET%20DEFICITS%20CHART%2011%2014%2005.pdf (http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/BUDGET%20DEFICITS%20CHART%2011%2014%2005.pdf)

HEY. You are going around preaching about *ignorant fools and there information* I say unto you! LOOK AT THIS INFORMATION. We as Americans have an obligation to do something about this. Become an activist. Get something done. SUPPORT YOUR DEMOCRATIC PARTY. The republicans have shown time and time again…that they cannot run this country. The Democratic Party has plans. They have bills. They have a future for this country. The Republicans don’t. George Bush and the Republican majority have NOT even tried to implement the 9/11 commissions ideas. They have failed you, and they have failed the world. BOO.

[0=]

First we need to eliminate the national bank, and take the country back from the corporations, it doesn't matter who's in office, the corporations and bankers own America. Has anyone even bothered to visit my signature links? Visit them you damn fools!

[Charlotte]

Helping Citizens with Job Training

Iraq:
$60 million for demobilizing and job
training for 130,000 enemy combatants.
$353 million for American-Iraqi Enterprise
Fund and job training

America:
23.8 percent cut ($316 million) in
vocational education, despite President’s
promise to create “Jobs for the 21st
Century” program
$151 million cut in adult training,
dislocated worker activities, employment
service state grants, and grants to states for
reemployment services

Providing Access to Higher Education

Iraq:
$20 million for Higher Education and
Development (HEAD) projects, creating
US-IraqiUniversity partnerships to expand
access to higher education for all Iraqis

America:
60.3 percent cut ($101 million) for
Perkins Loans, and $327 million cut in
Pell Grants, closing the door to higher
education opportunities for millions of
lower income students

Expanding Literacy

Iraq:
$40 million for building 275 schools and
training 10,000 teachers

America:
$8 million cut for reading programs from
Department of Education

Providing Children with Basic Skills

Iraq:
USAID Accelerated Learning Program
provides intensive personal education to
low income and at risk Iraqi children

America:
2.5 percent ($177 million) funding for
Head Start by 2006, even though head Start
currently can only serve 13.5 % of eligible
children because of funding restrictions
http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/emanuel.pdf (http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/emanuel.pdf)


Has this administration forgotten about us? I mean, really. Has it?

Let’s look at some good things we have done in Iraq!

$850 million for rebuilding hospitals and
150 clinics; replacement of medical
equipment; and providing basic health
care to more than half Iraq’s population
$3.557 billion for water and sewage
services repair and improvement
$153 million for solid waste management
$775 million for water resources
improvement
$875 million for irrigation and wetlands
restoration
$2.83 billion for safe drinking water
programs
$470 million for the construction of
housing and public buildings for Iraqi
citizens


Let’s look at some…….things we have done in America!

8.5 percent cut over five years to Veterans
Administration health care services, forcing
likely cuts in medical services and possible
VA hospital closures
36.7 percent cut ($500 million) to Clean
Water State Revolving Funds, which
provides loans for improving wastewater
treatment facilities
14.7 percent cut ($23.9 billion) from 2005
to 2009 in all discretionary funding for
environmental protection programs
Elimination of HOPE VI Program
$28 million cut in public housing
maintenance
$791 million cut in Section 8 Vouchers,
forcing 250,000 families from private
housing back into public housing or
homelessness
http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/emanuel2.pdf (http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/emanuel2.pdf)

For America could you please show what the cut reduced it to as the total and source for info? Thanx.

[mRojas2000]

I just don't like Bush's government, and I totally disagree with the war... they've been more than enough time to find those "massive destruction" weapons...
the dude doesnt even has any proof of what he says...

[Phantom2828]

The War in Iraq was a grave mistake. Homeland security is in ruins. You see, what our republican majority of congress has allowed the Bush Administration to do, is utterly destroy our country’s national security. Even Newt Gingrich, one of the fathers of the modern day Republican Party, has lost faith in the Bush administration. In reference to the Republican Party he as said and I quote.

“They are seen by the country as being in charge of a government that can't function…."

- Newt Gingrich

“He cited a series of blunders under Republican Rule, from failures in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina to mismanagement of the War in Iraq. He… said the government has squandered billions of dollars in Iraq. He noted that a Congressional Watchdog agency recently smuggled a truck carrying nuclear material into the country to test security. ‘Why isn’t the president pounding on the table? Why isn’t he sending up 16 reform bills?”

- Knight Ridder Newspapers

I mean, just consider the following:

Osama bin Laden is still at large

Afghanistan is still insecure

Iraq is still violent

North Korea and Iran arestill building nuclearweapons and missile

Terrorist recruiting is still occurring in the U.S., Canada, Great Britain and across the planet.

Only 6% of all cargo ships coming in and out of the United States are inspected!



And hey, forget Iraq, what about America. Let’s see some of George Bushes budgeting at work.

Helping Citizens with Job Training

Iraq:
$60 million for demobilizing and job
training for 130,000 enemy combatants.
$353 million for American-Iraqi Enterprise
Fund and job training

America:
23.8 percent cut ($316 million) in
vocational education, despite President’s
promise to create “Jobs for the 21st
Century” program
$151 million cut in adult training,
dislocated worker activities, employment
service state grants, and grants to states for
reemployment services

Providing Access to Higher Education

Iraq:
$20 million for Higher Education and
Development (HEAD) projects, creating
US-IraqiUniversity partnerships to expand
access to higher education for all Iraqis

America:
60.3 percent cut ($101 million) for
Perkins Loans, and $327 million cut in
Pell Grants, closing the door to higher
education opportunities for millions of
lower income students

Expanding Literacy

Iraq:
$40 million for building 275 schools and
training 10,000 teachers

America:
$8 million cut for reading programs from
Department of Education

Providing Children with Basic Skills

Iraq:
USAID Accelerated Learning Program
provides intensive personal education to
low income and at risk Iraqi children

America:
2.5 percent ($177 million) funding for
Head Start by 2006, even though head Start
currently can only serve 13.5 % of eligible
children because of funding restrictions
http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/emanuel.pdf (http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/emanuel.pdf)


Has this administration forgotten about us? I mean, really. Has it?

Let’s look at some good things we have done in Iraq!

$850 million for rebuilding hospitals and
150 clinics; replacement of medical
equipment; and providing basic health
care to more than half Iraq’s population
$3.557 billion for water and sewage
services repair and improvement
$153 million for solid waste management
$775 million for water resources
improvement
$875 million for irrigation and wetlands
restoration
$2.83 billion for safe drinking water
programs
$470 million for the construction of
housing and public buildings for Iraqi
citizens


Let’s look at some…….things we have done in America!

8.5 percent cut over five years to Veterans
Administration health care services, forcing
likely cuts in medical services and possible
VA hospital closures
36.7 percent cut ($500 million) to Clean
Water State Revolving Funds, which
provides loans for improving wastewater
treatment facilities
14.7 percent cut ($23.9 billion) from 2005
to 2009 in all discretionary funding for
environmental protection programs
Elimination of HOPE VI Program
$28 million cut in public housing
maintenance
$791 million cut in Section 8 Vouchers,
forcing 250,000 families from private
housing back into public housing or
homelessness
http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/emanuel2.pdf (http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/emanuel2.pdf)

I really must say I’m not impressed.


Our priorities should be:

Implementing the 9/11 Commission recommendations
Raising the minimum wage
Lowering prescription drug costs for seniors
Increasing Pell Grants
Rolling back subsidies for Big Oil
PayGo
Comprehensive immigration reform


And what about our economy? I mean, helping homeland security actually has the potential to help the American economy! We spend about 8 billion dollars a MONTH on the war in Iraq. Imagine if we turned that money to America! Strengthen our borders. Improving our education! Healthcare! Pell Grants! Raise Minimum wage! Buy equipment to inspect cargo ships. Create tons of new jobs with all these improvements.

WE ARE IN DEBT. We keep borrowing money, and in the last 4 years have borrowed over a trillion dollars from foreign countries! That’s crazy. We owe Japan 682 billion dollars. We owe China 249 billion dollars. We owe the UK 223 billion dollars. We owe Caribbean 115 billion dollars! We owe Taiwan 71 billion dollars. OPEC – 67 billion. Germany – 65 Billion. Korea – 66 billion. Canada – 53 billion.
http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/foreignmap.pdf (http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/foreignmap.pdf)

We keep digging deeper and deeper into a deficit! http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/budgetpicture.pdf (http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/budgetpicture.pdf)
http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/BUDGET%20DEFICITS%20CHART%2011%2014%2005.pdf (http://democraticleader.house.gov/30something/posters/BUDGET%20DEFICITS%20CHART%2011%2014%2005.pdf)

HEY. You are going around preaching about *ignorant fools and there information* I say unto you! LOOK AT THIS INFORMATION. We as Americans have an obligation to do something about this. Become an activist. Get something done. SUPPORT YOUR DEMOCRATIC PARTY. The republicans have shown time and time again…that they cannot run this country. The Democratic Party has plans. They have bills. They have a future for this country. The Republicans don’t. George Bush and the Republican majority have NOT even tried to implement the 9/11 commissions ideas. They have failed you, and they have failed the world. BOO.OMFG bush is accualy helping rebuild a country in desperate need and taking funds from us when we have more than enough moeny to support outselfs! So in other words the democrats want to stop supporting and helping better the lives of millions of Iraqis and spend it all on us? Bush is accualy building schools hospitals giveing health care, and alowing women and little girls to go outside without a veil instead of fearing being beaten to death. We america are just fine, are you dieing are YOU starving are you uneducated and never gone to school in your life NO. I cant beleive people would accualy use this infromation against bush. I didnt know you could be too kind too generous but according to dems you can.

[Bobby]

I think Bush is trying to make peace, but he needs to read "Peace-Making For Dummies" written by his own father. GWB's attempt to make peace is what created this whole ordeal.

[Phantom2828]

I like the idea of establishing a democracy in the middle of that crappy place know as the middle east, freeing the people making sure saddam didnt have wmd's and I am pretty sure some part of it was for oil but not in a bad way, we free them rebuild their country with schools hospitals and give them moeny, in return us and brittan get exclusive rights for contracts to mine for oil, sounds fair dosnt it.

[Bobby]

I like the idea of establishing a democracy in the middle of that shithole know as the middle east...

That was a really dumb thing to say. I understand you have your opinion but calling the middle east a "shithole" is totally out of order. It's just not right to insult that region because it has problems.

[Phantom2828]

That was a really dumb thing to say. I understand you have your opinion but calling the middle east a "shithole" is totally out of order. It's just not right to insult that region because it has problems.Yeah it kinda was but its still a crappy place compared to anywhere except africa. You dont see people in the U.S cutting of heads or beating little girls for not covering their faces

[Bobby]

So now your calling africa lower than shit? Please stop. Those horrible things happen all over the world.

[Phantom2828]

So now your calling africa lower than shit? Please stop. Those horrible things happen all over the world.Just forget I said it I am going to edit my post. And no they dont happen all over the world.

[Bobby]

Yes they do.

Back on Topic.

I don't have anymore to say exept this "war" is horrible, and should be put to an end.

[Phantom2828]

Why what war just Iraq or war on terror

[0=]

Both, terrorists only exist because we're pissing everyone off, stop pissing people off, you don't have enemies, go kill the people that are only against you because you pissed them off in the first place, you continue to make enemies until you are outnumbered and wiped off the map.


OMFG bush is accualy helping rebuild a country in desperate need and taking funds from us when we have more than enough moeny to support outselfs! So in other words the democrats want to stop supporting and helping better the lives of millions of Iraqis and spend it all on us? Bush is accualy building schools hospitals giveing health care, and alowing women and little girls to go outside without a veil instead of fearing being beaten to death. We america are just fine, are you dieing are YOU starving are you uneducated and never gone to school in your life NO. I cant beleive people would accualy use this infromation against bush. I didnt know you could be too kind too generous but according to dems you can.

Hey, they only need half of that shit because we bombed it.

[Phantom2828]

Both, terrorists only exist because we're pissing everyone off, stop pissing people off, you don't have enemies, go kill the people that are only against you because you pissed them off in the first place, you continue to make enemies until you are outnumbered and wiped off the map.




Hey, they only need half of that shit because we bombed it.LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!! o wow. You truely believe that these people (terrorists religious extreamists) hate us because we PISS THEM OFF what are we doing that pisses them off jesus man all the citizens are greeting us and high fiveing our soilders in Iraq right now, its only the terrorists and insurgents that shoot at us. If we our president thought like you do we would have WAYYYYYYYYYY more terrorist attacks and civilian deaths, if FDR thought like you do we would all be speaking german! The terrorists we are fighting DONT WANT PEACE, WE are infidels their little koran tells them to kill us, I already posted all those verses in another thread. Why don't you go over there and say we're sorry! please we want peace! they will f*cking cut your head off, we have offered them a ceasefire many times they decline. O yeah you have just joined the weak liberal tree hugging list:P sound familiar jk

[0=]

Please provide me some solid evidence that they're all religious extremists, and this is suppsoed to be a mature discussion between "intelligent" beings, so don't laugh at people you disagree with.

[Phantom2828]

Please provide me some solid evidence that they're all religious extremists, and this is suppsoed to be a mature discussion between "intelligent" beings, so don't laugh at people you disagree with.Ok what do you think they are, you must surley admit that at least SOME of them are. Why would you want to KILL someone that just freed you from a harsh dictatorship is spending millions fixing YOUR country building hospitals giveing more than half of your population free healthcare, schools letting little girls go to school without geting f*cking stoned (whick btw is barbaric) schools and just generaly making life better for everyone. Now I know you are going to bring up O WELL WE KILL LOTS OF CIVILIANS, well thats kinda hard to avoid when Ackmed hides in hospitals! and behind CHILDREN! Or straps a bomb to his 11 year old! This tactic is called hugging, we drop leaflets before we bomb saying get out terrorists in your area or somthing like that, the terrorists love it when civilans die hell mostly all civilian deaths are from some idiot blowing himself up!

[0=]

How about our bombs killing the civilians? A lot of people in Iraq think it was better with saddam in power.

[Phantom2828]

How about our bombs killing the civilians? A lot of people in Iraq think it was better with saddam in power.Yeah like I said kinda hard to tell there are civilians nearby from 3000 feet in the air. Also hard when ackmed is hiding in peoples houses and stashing weapons in hospitals or ambulances.

[cmpcmp]

(in context of what Bush has done wrong while he is president)
Osama bin Laden is still at large

Afghanistan is still insecure

Iraq is still violent

North Korea and Iran arestill building nuclearweapons and missile

Terrorist recruiting is still occurring in the U.S., Canada, Great Britain and across the planet.

ok lets talk about these points.

Osama bin Laden is still at large, do you think that if we hadn't gone in to Afganistan and toppled the Taliban regime that we would have a better chance of getting osama? Hes been gettign away from american since clinton started firing missiles at places he was suspected of being at.

Iraq is still violent so should we have not gotten rid of sadaam? are there no terrorists in Iraq? (top alqueda leaders have been captured/killed in Iraq) and aren't they are main cause of the violence? do you think that they are attacking us because they don't like Freedom or democracy or infidels, or that they don't want us in Iraq, aren't we infact in Iraq still because its violent? If they wanted us gone all they would have to do is to stop attacking us.

North Korea and Iran arestill building nuclearweapons and missile so your saying that it's Bushes fault that they are building nukes? should he have bombed them to stop their nuke programs?

Terrorist recruiting is still occurring in the U.S., Canada, Great Britain and across the planet. are you saying that the terririst can be reasoned with? and will stop if we ask them to, if we aren't "world police" or "corrupt". or are you saying that bush should have killed them all somehow? Maybe listen in on every conversation on earth? (the terrorists are recruting in space!!!! lol)

[Phantom]

ok lets talk about these points.

Osama bin Laden is still at large, do you think that if we hadn't gone in to Afganistan and toppled the Taliban regime that we would have a better chance of getting osama? Hes been gettign away from american since clinton started firing missiles at places he was suspected of being at.

Iraq is still violent so should we have not gotten rid of sadaam? are there no terrorists in Iraq? (top alqueda leaders have been captured/killed in Iraq) and aren't they are main cause of the violence? do you think that they are attacking us because they don't like Freedom or democracy or infidels, or that they don't want us in Iraq, aren't we infact in Iraq still because its violent? If they wanted us gone all they would have to do is to stop attacking us.

North Korea and Iran arestill building nuclearweapons and missile so your saying that it's Bushes fault that they are building nukes? should he have bombed them to stop their nuke programs?

Terrorist recruiting is still occurring in the U.S., Canada, Great Britain and across the planet. are you saying that the terririst can be reasoned with? and will stop if we ask them to, if we aren't "world police" or "corrupt". or are you saying that bush should have killed them all somehow? Maybe listen in on every conversation on earth? (the terrorists are recruting in space!!!! lol)Could'nt have put it better myself:D

[Hyper]

An eye for an eye and the world goes blind

Answering to violence with violence greates more violence creating a never ending cycle of violence.. Is this realy what you true patriots want? You want your brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, sons, daughters to die in a pointless war.. Did the Iraqis realy wanted to be rescued I dont think so well atleast they surtenly didnt after the bombings and attacks blew up their buildings and so on. Also I heard that in some point of the war 5000 children died everyday to starvation, landmines and other war activities. I am not going to talk about the reasons US went in there I am just saying the situation is blind and stupid.


The only true war that exists in our age is Economical, political war and both sides use it. Yeah sure things may go better in there but some things will never go better again lost lives. More hate will just come from all this and create more violence..

EDIT : Also why would you drop leaflets in an area where your bombing some1 who is hiding.. Do you see logic in it?

[Phantom]

An eye for an eye and the world goes blind

Answering to violence with violence greates more violence creating a never ending cycle of violence.. Is this realy what you true patriots want? You want your brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, sons, daughters to die in a pointless war.. Did the Iraqis realy wanted to be rescued I dont think so well atleast they surtenly didnt after the bombings and attacks blew up their buildings and so on. Also I heard that in some point of the war 5000 children died everyday to starvation, landmines and other war activities. I am not going to talk about the reasons US went in there I am just saying the situation is blind and stupid.


The only true war that exists in our age is Economical, political war and both sides use it. Yeah sure things may go better in there but some things will never go better again lost lives. More hate will just come from all this and create more violence..

EDIT : Also why would you drop leaflets in an area where your bombing some1 who is hiding.. Do you see logic in it?from the bottom to top. Yes because if the terrorist leaves the city we capture him, if civilians leave they are given medical attention or whatever need be.

"The only true war that exists in our age is Economical, political war and both sides use it. Yeah sure things may go better in there but some things will never go better again lost lives. More hate will just come from all this and create more violence.."

Yeah their Idea of a political war is hiding among children then when one gets killed take a picture, or one of OUR journalists takes a picture and says this is bushes private war for oil or some dumb thing like that. The terrorists then gather in rallys and show grusome pictures then more people become insurgents even when its the terrorists fault the kid died.


"Answering to violence with violence greates more violence creating a never ending cycle of violence.. Is this realy what you true patriots want? You want your brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, sons, daughters to die in a pointless war.. Did the Iraqis realy wanted to be rescued I dont think so well atleast they surtenly didnt after the bombings and attacks blew up their buildings and so on. Also I heard that in some point of the war 5000 children died everyday to starvation, landmines and other war activities. I am not going to talk about the reasons US went in there I am just saying the situation is blind and stupid."

There are only a couple of ways to defeat terrorists, complete millitary force just kill them intill they come out of their fanatical thinking and say know that the only way is death, now this sounds harsh but the only other ways is to destroy every country that funds them or trains them, which is like every country in the middle east, or just sit back and take it while they bomb our shit. Yes trust me if you lived in Iraq when saddam was in power you would want to be rescured, I am not even going to list all the things we have done for them, I think they are in another thread. No children are not dieing from starvation we give them food medical attention, more than half of them have medicare, we build them hospitals , more housing etc. Like I said most children only die because ackmed is hiding in peoples houses and behind children, this tactic is called hugging. We dont use landmines because after the war they dont get picked up, people in belgium are still geting blow up by bombs from ww1!

[cmpcmp]

I basicly agree with Phantom

An eye for an eye and the world goes blind
maybe, but if some one is allowed to run around and kill every body every body will be dead, cept the killer(s). And NEWS FLASH the Fundamental Islamic Terrorists that belive that we are infidels that need to die are trying to kill us. Don't try ur sadaam didn't support al queda crap b/c theres proof that he let them get medical attention there, pay families $ if there son/daughter was a suicide bomber, and Al Queda isn't the only terririst organization out there. Plus al queda leaders have been captured in Iraq.

The only true war that exists in our age is Economical, political war
If political "war" won't be backed up by physical war (think U.N.) then why would any body negotiate with anyone besides trade?

Also why would you drop leaflets in an area where your bombing some1 who is hiding.. Do you see logic in it?
U drop the leaflest BEFORE u drop bombs. Plus the intention of war isn't to kill innocents, plus after you drop the leaflets, the terrorists (like hezbola) will still hide with the civilians,and many times force the civilians to comply.

Good question right here,
-If some one is attacking you do you defend your self/nation?
-If Iran getts a nuke, and is going to launch it at Isreal (the president has repeatedly said that isereal whould/will be wiped off the map, with force) do you percision bobm the nuke before it is launched? what if they are launching them at ur house? Go try and reason with Hadimniijad (i think thats his name) hes really reasonanable, he does things like make western words illegal to use, and bann george michals and Eagles beats from Iran (sounds like Taliban rules to me) (think hooded women)

[Hyper]

As I recall Phantom you said in a post something like this ,, And in return for helping them shouldnt we get some top right oil deals with them ''


Also why do you think the Iran would fire a nuke at Israel? Simply because they hate Israel and now even more nations hate Israel after the 'Attack on Hezbollah' and if they get captured when they run away how would they get captured when the leaflets are dropped ( WHEN THERE IS NO ISRAEL TROOPS IN THE COUNTRY )

Also if the terrorists realy meant what they were doing why wont they find one of the good ol KGB nukes in USA? Or buy one I am sure surten non governmental groups have some KGB ,, Briefcase nukes '' and see I have a thought if I was a terrorist and id have lets say 5000 ppl in the US
Who agreed with me why wont we all just get a gun walk in a Government institution and blow as many ppl away as possible? Instead of making stupid bombard attacks which mostly fail because we try to get 2000 tons of TNT in the country with briefcases lol.. No rather buy a gun anyone can get one in America! Walk in a damn government institution and blast a some heads and later take responsibility 5000 ppl with guns who walk in mostly in different places im sure they could kill atleast 2 ppl each.. I have tons of more theories what the terrorists could do but for some reason their never doing them.. Now you can try and think yourself for a change

[Phantom]

As I recall Phantom you said in a post something like this ,, And in return for helping them shouldnt we get some top right oil deals with them ''


Also why do you think the Iran would fire a nuke at Israel? Simply because they hate Israel and now even more nations hate Israel after the 'Attack on Hezbollah' and if they get captured when they run away how would they get captured when the leaflets are dropped ( WHEN THERE IS NO ISRAEL TROOPS IN THE COUNTRY )

Also if the terrorists realy meant what they were doing why wont they find one of the good ol KGB nukes in USA? Or buy one I am sure surten non governmental groups have some KGB ,, Briefcase nukes '' and see I have a thought if I was a terrorist and id have lets say 5000 ppl in the US
Who agreed with me why wont we all just get a gun walk in a Government institution and blow as many ppl away as possible? Instead of making stupid bombard attacks which mostly fail because we try to get 2000 tons of TNT in the country with briefcases lol.. No rather buy a gun anyone can get one in America! Walk in a damn government institution and blast a some heads and later take responsibility 5000 ppl with guns who walk in mostly in different places im sure they could kill atleast 2 ppl each.. I have tons of more theories what the terrorists could do but for some reason their never doing them.. Now you can try and think yourself for a changeOk lets decipher none sensical ramblings top to bottom. No I said we free them rebuild their country and protect them and brittan and us get exlusive rights to mine for oil, this is only a theory though my personal thoughts.

"Also why do you think the Iran would fire a nuke at Israel? Simply because they hate Israel and now even more nations hate Israel after the 'Attack on Hezbollah' and if they get captured when they run away how would they get captured when the leaflets are dropped ( WHEN THERE IS NO ISRAEL TROOPS IN THE COUNTRY )"
Yeah the president of Iran has REPEATEDLY said he wants to destroy isreal, or "drive them into the sea" now if you dont take that as a threat somthing is wrong. you surround the city. Yes I admit isreal is alittle brutal at times but they have to be they are surrounded by MILLIONS of muslims that would like nothing better than to see them ALL dead or driven into the sea.

"Also if the terrorists realy meant what they were doing why wont they find one of the good ol KGB nukes in USA? Or buy one I am sure surten non governmental groups have some KGB ,, Briefcase nukes '' and see I have a thought if I was a terrorist and id have lets say 5000 ppl in the US
Who agreed with me why wont we all just get a gun walk in a Government institution and blow as many ppl away as possible? Instead of making stupid bombard attacks which mostly fail because we try to get 2000 tons of TNT in the country with briefcases lol.. No rather buy a gun anyone can get one in America! Walk in a damn government institution and blast a some heads and later take responsibility 5000 ppl with guns who walk in mostly in different places im sure they could kill atleast 2 ppl each.. I have tons of more theories what the terrorists could do but for some reason their never doing them.. "
LOL do you realize what your saying 5000 arabs walk into a gun store buy a SHITLOAD of guns and just charge the f*cking whitehouse yelling ALAH ACBAR!! I am very worried about KGB nukes because our mexico border is so weak, you do know that there is an estimated 5000 al quida sleeper agents in the U.S right which I doubt maybe more like 200. Dude I think the terrorists realy MEANT what they were doing on 9/11 ! when they killed 3000! of our own in an attack that rivaled PEAR HARBOR, you seem to have forgotten, maybe it would have helped you understand if one of your family members died there I bet then you would be all for the war on terror.

"Now you can try and think yourself for a change"

^That was un needed

[cmpcmp]

Also why do you think the Iran would fire a nuke at Israel?

alll of the following and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad quotes,
“Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury,”
“Iran is ready to transfer nuclear know-how to the
Islamic countries due to their need.” (ie, give them nukes/nuke-know-how also)
"As the imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map."
"And God willing, with the force of God behind it, we shall soon experience a world without the United States and Zionism,"

what is why i think he wants to "wipe Israel off the map"

Simply because they hate Israel and now even more nations hate Israel after the 'Attack on Hezbollah'
If some on were to attack where you live ......
(ur profile says hell but im inclined to think you live somewhere else)
and start launching 1000's of rockets at your area what would you do? drop leaflest all over, then presision bomb the launching mechanisms, maybe?

-Are you saying that if you were born in Israel, and hezbloa rockets were launched at your house (but u can't be sure as the rockets perscision is something like with in 2 miles) that you would just lay down and take it? not do anykind of retaliation?

PS. the countries that "hate Israel more" already hated Israel from the start and were just looking for an excuse.

WHEN THERE IS NO ISRAEL TROOPS IN THE COUNTRY
well there were "iscolated icurrences" but they definitely weren't taking it by land or anything like that. If the world was up in arms about bombing hezbola (but strangely not at hezbola as much) what would they be saying if isael had gone in fullscale land invasion?

Also if the terrorists realy meant what they were doing why wont they find one of the good ol KGB nukes in USA? Or buy one I am sure surten non governmental groups have some KGB ,, Briefcase nukes '' and see I have a thought if I was a terrorist and id have lets say 5000 ppl in the US
Who agreed with me why wont we all just get a gun walk in a Government institution and blow as many ppl away as possible? Instead of making stupid bombard attacks which mostly fail because we try to get 2000 tons of TNT in the country with briefcases lol.. No rather buy a gun anyone can get one in America! Walk in a damn government institution and blast a some heads and later take responsibility 5000 ppl with guns who walk in mostly in different places im sure they could kill atleast 2 ppl each.. I have tons of more theories what the terrorists could do but for some reason their never doing them.. Now you can try and think yourself for a change
i dont even know where to start.....

Your reasoning makes 0 sense. To some how sneak 5000 terrorists in to the USA is a little farfetched.

on the other hand on 9/11 they only needed like 20 (19 but suspected one more... w/e) ppl to kill ~3000.... 3000/20=150 a terrorist, thats a lot more than your number of 2.

and ur nuke thing,
-If the terrorists are willing to kill themselves, 3000 other ppl (in one day) and spend years training and preparing for the killing, If they could get their hands on a nuke, they would use it as fast as they could.

they are going for fear, a guy w/ a gun can be shot very quickly, a 747 requires a rocket and even then everybody in the plane will die, plus anyone that happens to be under the plane debris as it falls.

[kolte]

Statement:

I have thought long and hard. And the number one reason I disaprove of the war in Iraq and in fact all wars is:

There is never, under any circumstances a reason to kill sombody. Ever.

[Phantom]

Statement:

I have thought long and hard. And the number one reason I disaprove of the war in Iraq and in fact all wars is:

There is never, under any circumstances a reason to kill sombody. Ever.So if I broke into your house at night and was about to kill your mom or you, you wouldnt shoot me.:confused:

[kolte]

if you broke into my house, my mother would be safe over 600 miles away. If you were trying to kill her, I would use self defense, but I would not intend to end your life.

But what relevence is that situation?

we are talking about a war that has killed hundrends of thousends of people.

[Phantom]

if you broke into my house, my mother would be safe over 600 miles away. If you were trying to kill her, I would use self defense, but I would not intend to end your life.

But what relevence is that situation?

we are talking about a war that has killed hundrends of thousends of people.somtimes wars are nessisary. I personaly would rather fight than just sit back and take it. Think of it this way if we didnt invade Iraq the civilian deaths would be MUCH higher under saddam, the way he treated his people and what he did to the kurds. And Afghanistan was pretty self explanitory the terrorists were hiding there under the protection of the taliban. We also took them out and also liberated the people there that were oppresed by the fanatical taliban.

[Hyper]

Ok lets decipher none sensical ramblings top to bottom. No I said we free them rebuild their country and protect them and brittan and us get exlusive rights to mine for oil, this is only a theory though my personal thoughts.

"Also why do you think the Iran would fire a nuke at Israel? Simply because they hate Israel and now even more nations hate Israel after the 'Attack on Hezbollah' and if they get captured when they run away how would they get captured when the leaflets are dropped ( WHEN THERE IS NO ISRAEL TROOPS IN THE COUNTRY )"
Yeah the president of Iran has REPEATEDLY said he wants to destroy isreal, or "drive them into the sea" now if you dont take that as a threat somthing is wrong. you surround the city. Yes I admit isreal is alittle brutal at times but they have to be they are surrounded by MILLIONS of muslims that would like nothing better than to see them ALL dead or driven into the sea.

"Also if the terrorists realy meant what they were doing why wont they find one of the good ol KGB nukes in USA? Or buy one I am sure surten non governmental groups have some KGB ,, Briefcase nukes '' and see I have a thought if I was a terrorist and id have lets say 5000 ppl in the US
Who agreed with me why wont we all just get a gun walk in a Government institution and blow as many ppl away as possible? Instead of making stupid bombard attacks which mostly fail because we try to get 2000 tons of TNT in the country with briefcases lol.. No rather buy a gun anyone can get one in America! Walk in a damn government institution and blast a some heads and later take responsibility 5000 ppl with guns who walk in mostly in different places im sure they could kill atleast 2 ppl each.. I have tons of more theories what the terrorists could do but for some reason their never doing them.. "
LOL do you realize what your saying 5000 arabs walk into a gun store buy a SHITLOAD of guns and just charge the f*cking whitehouse yelling ALAH ACBAR!! I am very worried about KGB nukes because our mexico border is so weak, you do know that there is an estimated 5000 al quida sleeper agents in the U.S right which I doubt maybe more like 200. Dude I think the terrorists realy MEANT what they were doing on 9/11 ! when they killed 3000! of our own in an attack that rivaled PEAR HARBOR, you seem to have forgotten, maybe it would have helped you understand if one of your family members died there I bet then you would be all for the war on terror.

"Now you can try and think yourself for a change"

^That was un needed


You know you still dont get my point if there are thought to be 5000 agents in USA and you think like 200 they wouldnt have to get in the border they could do much worse than Pearl Harbor.. But instead a huge attack only happens when the government gains political influence by it occuring. Of course you still dont see your logic cuz in your head simply everyone who doesnt agree with you is wrong. And no I wouldnt support the war with terrorism if my family member wouldve died there. I wouldnt follow a mass of hate and a government that belives the best solution is always to give someone else the weapons so they could kill them or better yet kill it yourself. And if youd look at history youd perhaps realize why the fuck do all the muslims hate Israel. And what the Iran president has said. Well its simply let me give you an example I will say I will kill you if you dont shut up but that doesnt mean il kill you all that means is I am trying to get you to shut up. And why would Iran fire a nuke at Israel all it would mean is that theyd be attacked by the good ol USA. And yes the last line in my previous post was very needed.

[cmpcmp]

Ok if there are 5000 ppl in the USA trying to kill us how have there not been any domestic terrorist attacks in the last five years? You don't think that even one of the ppl would have done something news worthy?

and Kolte
There is never, under any circumstances a reason to kill sombody. Ever.
Theoretical situation that may actualy happen. North Korea get nukes and intercontinental balistic missiles. UN drags its feet and they keep them (NO SUPPRISE THERE) and the Dems in the senate/congress block balistic missile defence so if N korean launches the nukes they will hit us.
-OK now North Korea Launches a nuke and it fails but we do know that it was intended to blowup a large city, do u blow up the nuke launching places in North Korea? (thus killing innocents)

[Phantom]

You know you still dont get my point if there are thought to be 5000 agents in USA and you think like 200 they wouldnt have to get in the border they could do much worse than Pearl Harbor.. But instead a huge attack only happens when the government gains political influence by it occuring. Of course you still dont see your logic cuz in your head simply everyone who doesnt agree with you is wrong. And no I wouldnt support the war with terrorism if my family member wouldve died there. I wouldnt follow a mass of hate and a government that belives the best solution is always to give someone else the weapons so they could kill them or better yet kill it yourself. And if youd look at history youd perhaps realize why the fuck do all the muslims hate Israel. And what the Iran president has said. Well its simply let me give you an example I will say I will kill you if you dont shut up but that doesnt mean il kill you all that means is I am trying to get you to shut up. And why would Iran fire a nuke at Israel all it would mean is that theyd be attacked by the good ol USA. And yes the last line in my previous post was very needed.You do know we have stoped over 50 I say again 50 terrorist attacks on U.S soil. Ok dude are you from a diffrent country because I cant understand ANYTHING you are saying either its your logic or you sentence structure. Now Isreal once did give back the gaza strip well guess what right when they gave it back terrorists launched rockets from it! If you cant see that Iran hates isreal because their leader is a religious fanatic that governerns the whole country and controls everything, then there is somthing wrong with you.

[Hyper]

Ohh god all I am saying it is easy to blow something up if your a terrorist... If I was a terrorist all I would do is just take a fucking bomb walk in a movie theater and blow it up I am not sure if you can do it there but in here theres no ultra security controll in huge public places.. And I belive a terrorist could walk in a mall and blow himself up killing tens of ppl but I cant recall that happening..

Overall my point is for some 'mysterious' reason the huge attacks that hit countries like the USA occur when the government can take huge advantage from the entire attack

[Phantom]

Ohh god all I am saying it is easy to blow something up if your a terrorist... If I was a terrorist all I would do is just take a fucking bomb walk in a movie theater and blow it up I am not sure if you can do it there but in here theres no ultra security controll in huge public places.. And I belive a terrorist could walk in a mall and blow himself up killing tens of ppl but I cant recall that happening..

Overall my point is for some 'mysterious' reason the huge attacks that hit countries like the USA occur when the government can take huge advantage from the entire attackHow about we have somthing called RESTRICTIONS and POLICE I dont think the average arab can just walk in to a store and buy MILLITARY GRADE EXPLOSIVES!

[cmpcmp]

most all of the stoped terrorist threats were from out side the US, but some like the one in Florida had barely got off the ground.

The fact of the matter is it is now very difficult to get a terrorist into america, give em money, keep in communication with them, and carry out a coordinated attack that kills more than 10 ppl. The fact is that 40,000ish ppl die in trafic accidents every year, 1000 ppl getting killed by terrorists a year in the US will only shut down the borders a lot faster and then getting ppl in will really be a chalange, so they go for big dammge and canage with few ppl, like september 11th, madrid train bombings, London Bus bobming and so forth. Its all a bout the fear factor,

O SHIT IF 20 ppl can kill 3000 then how many will 5000 kill???
5000*75(half the ration of 9/11(the attack, not 9 11ths))=375,000 o shit were all going to die.

but they really can't get that many "good" attacks off, and belive me, they are trying.

[mRojas2000]

Statement:

I have thought long and hard. And the number one reason I disaprove of the war in Iraq and in fact all wars is:

There is never, under any circumstances a reason to kill sombody. Ever.

I so agree with this!!
I disagree with any kind of war, if theres no real reason. I just agree with war if there's a REAL reason.
War because of of 3 soilders its just STUPID (I mean the war in lebanon). Just make like a sue, and make the country pay something because of damages, but not making a war killing thousands of people.
USA government said that there were "massive attack guns", and people might have agreed with war. But they have been more than enough time to find them... but those stupid say "it takes time"
assholes

[cmpcmp]

War because of of 3 soilders its just STUPID
If u really belive that the war in Lebanon happed souly because of three soldiers then you really are very ignorant. Hezbola (the target of the war) has hated Israel since the day it was created, it was created to kill Israel, and have been attacking them ever since then. It is because of the constant attacks from hezbola against israel, and the promise of more that the war started, the three soldiers were just somewhat of the final straw that caused israel to attack Hezbola.

To try and say that that war was cused by the capture of three soldiers is a gross oversimplification that if not clarified is basicly a lie.

The fact of the matter is that hezbola is bent of Destryoing Israel and what it stands for. To allow a group like that to freely exist unchecked, is a terruble thing to do. Unless your the kind of "pacifist" that supports in-action and just laying down and taking it.

[Makod]

Statement:

I have thought long and hard. And the number one reason I disaprove of the war in Iraq and in fact all wars is:

There is never, under any circumstances a reason to kill sombody. Ever.
I believe we have a winner!

[cmpcmp]

There is never, under any circumstances a reason to kill sombody. Ever.
so do you make an exception for self defense, for a person and a whole country?

[Phantom]

war is hell.
it sucks.
its 2006 now. Time to go on offense. Screw this pacifist attitude that weve had for so long
while our embasys, ships, and citizens get blown up every 3 months without any payback.

Iraq ? Afghan ? Down at my local walmart ? dont matter to me where they are. Eliminate them
now before they come over here and do it again. So they hate us you say ? Good. Making enemies
around the world you say ? So what. I recall a 100% standing ovation, 100% total commitment,
and 100% support to the comment that was made in 2001...you remember it.. ??? ....
'Youre either with us or youre with the terrorists.' simple as that.

No, Im not a war monger. I dont thrill at killing. But its either them or us, I chose them.

Some people need to grow a backbone, bite their lip, because war is hell, it aint pretty, mistakes
are made, shit happens. It happened in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and every other war or
action we've been in.

We help out more countries with aid and support than nearly all the other nations of the whole
globe combined. Where is the UN ? Here! Why is that you think ? When shit happens around the
world, who sends the stuff ? We do. Sometimes we're right, sometimes we're wrong. We're not
perfect. But like it or not we're the big brother on the block. Deal with it. Or else, dont come running
when you need your country rid of enemy invaders next time. How soon nations have forgotten.
Forgotten about WWI, WWII, and now 9/11.

Republican , Democrat, Independant ? Dont matter to me. We all bleed red. Lot of red on 9/11
that needs some dealing with. Yes, payback. Eye for an eye now. Oh I guess we could all build
a bonfire, get all the leaders around the world in some meetings and sing happy happy joy joy songs
and lick each others butss, but fact is. That aint gonna stop the evil from wanting to kill us.

Im thankful I live in a country where I can disagree with anyone, and say so and nobody comes
to my house and burns it down, chops off my head, and drops my body in the street. Because those
are the people we're talking about here. evil killers. Personally, for my deisre, we CANT kill enough
of them, until they're ALL gone. 10 years..20 years..100 years..dont matter to me.. get em all.

But mostly, what Im most thankful for today, here and now is this..

THANK we didnt have all these wuss' pacifist types back in 41' The U.S. would be called Western
Germany right now, and the text youre reading this second would either not exist at all, or would be in
german.

And just for you politicaly correct libs that love picking apart my sentences (makod) no I am not talking about ALL muslims just the exteamists which are a small minority.

U.S was going to run into militant Islam somtime.

[kolte]

what pacifist additude? We have been agressive since the dawn of time. Its time to become peceful. Good lord its like you want there to be pain. Fuck you man. You don't understand suffering apparently. I've been striving so hard these past months to help sustain peace and suvility in my life, and I reolize that this is a faild dream. In fact, I should kill myself, there is no reason to survive. Thats all I'm doing, surviving, from day to day, never happy, never content. Just sad. I turn on the telivision, and people are spewing hatred. VT - hatred. My family, hatred. My work. Hatred. My lonliness, and my struggles, just supplying to my own self hatred. You people. You awful voilent people. I wish a thousand awful things unto you all! You and your hatred, taste your own shit.

FUCK IRAQ, nah man that aint cool! Lets kill us some terrorists! ALLAH ALLAH.

What makes us better then them? You foolish children! Nothing! We are piss, and they are shit! We are just a different kind of awful. WEre fat ass, unhealthy, greedy, stingy, sick ass corrupt bastards ruled by lies!

I'm reolizing more and more your just going to laugh at this post. But fuck you man, I might be crazy, and incoherent, and twitchy! But tahts why I'm on this site. And just let it be known, and mentally and physically handicapped 16 year old, has more morailty then an entire room of infidels.

Burn on earth you sacks of shit. All of your pro violence will get you noware. He who lives by the sword dies by it my friend. And after a few xanax and packs of cig's, I won't even remember this conversation. Of course, thats one of my handicaps. completly forgetting this ever happend. JOY! I look forward to forgetting all of your names by tomarrow.

*sobs*

[cmpcmp]

The Paradox of Terrorism
------------------------
by: cmpcmpc
------------------------

- the terrorist want to kill us(only the the ones that want to kill us, u might think that this is selfexplanatory but aperantly some ppl get offended)
-terrorist ideology of hate breeds more hate, like a cancer if u will.

-if places like iran, iraq, afganistan, N korea,.... are allowed to exist freely, they will grow and gain power (nukes) and influence with their ppl (well maybe not N korea, the ppl hate the gov, but there really isn't a good ideology (religion) in that gov.).
-the hate will still remain, and it will most likely only become worse. (think Nazism)
-if some one is bent on killing you you can't negotiate them out of their goal, you will only aid them in negotiating as they won't do what you say, but they will take your incentives. Its kind of like trying to bargain some one down to selling you something for nothing, they won't do it, it doesn't achieve their end goal.

possible fixes
------------

-change their ideology or destroy it altogether.

-in order to have real influence with the masses of ppl you must be in the country, or have your message boroad cast there, which won't happen because the governemnt won't allow it. In order to do that you would have to over throw the govenment which would require force (war), and then wait while being attacked by the ppl for them to get
-the latter involves probly nuking every one, which isn't such a good idea.
-to destroy their ideology and "fix" it, sort of a half way, you must kill the support system (gov+religon) and change the influence, which requires a governmnet over throw (war), killing of the enemies that are trying to then kill you, and then sustained presence untill they can take care of the problem them selves, or there isn't a problem anymore.

-your last option is to sit and let the cancer grow, hope they self preform kemotherapy and that its all good in the end. (not likely)
-this was our respose to Nazism and see how that turned out?

If we sit and let Iran for example be un challanged
(does the U.N. even count anymore as a challange? look at Iraq from 1991-2001, sudan, rwanda,....oil for food,....)
do you think that they won't develope nukes just because we want them to not do it? u don't think that they'l either use them or sell them to ppl who will once they get them?

-inaction won't fix the problem it will do the opposite
-iscolated strikes are played up on terrorist "news" systems as merciless killing of innocent babies
-if you criticize them they will kill Nun(s) (recent example)
-if u draw pictures of Mohamad they will riot and kill dozens and destroy ur embasy and not buy anyhting from you.


war is a terrible thing, and should NEVER EVER be used lightly, but islamo facism w/ nukes (vx gass or w/e) and intercontinental balistic missiles (and US stalled missile defence program, thanx dems) is MUCH MUCH worse, no matter how u spin it.

nuked NY and LA and seattle and...... is much worse than the US trying to establism a demoracy in the Middle east, even if violence is used. maybe Iraq didn't have nukes or WMD's but sadaam definitely supported that ideology (and funded it).

plus i don't see how PPL can say that on one side we failed to shut off the borders so foreign terrorist are pouring in, and then that on the other hand were only fighting the forces in a Civil war. U can't have both, and last time i checked we have captured Al queda members in Iraq.

[Phantom]

what pacifist additude? We have been agressive since the dawn of time. Its time to become peceful. Good lord its like you want there to be pain. Fuck you man. You don't understand suffering apparently. I've been striving so hard these past months to help sustain peace and suvility in my life, and I reolize that this is a faild dream. In fact, I should kill myself, there is no reason to survive. Thats all I'm doing, surviving, from day to day, never happy, never content. Just sad. I turn on the telivision, and people are spewing hatred. VT - hatred. My family, hatred. My work. Hatred. My lonliness, and my struggles, just supplying to my own self hatred. You people. You awful voilent people. I wish a thousand awful things unto you all! You and your hatred, taste your own shit.

FUCK IRAQ, nah man that aint cool! Lets kill us some terrorists! ALLAH ALLAH.

What makes us better then them? You foolish children! Nothing! We are piss, and they are shit! We are just a different kind of awful. WEre fat ass, unhealthy, greedy, stingy, sick ass corrupt bastards ruled by lies!

I'm reolizing more and more your just going to laugh at this post. But fuck you man, I might be crazy, and incoherent, and twitchy! But tahts why I'm on this site. And just let it be known, and mentally and physically handicapped 16 year old, has more morailty then an entire room of infidels.

Burn on earth you sacks of shit. All of your pro violence will get you noware. He who lives by the sword dies by it my friend. And after a few xanax and packs of cig's, I won't even remember this conversation. Of course, thats one of my handicaps. completly forgetting this ever happend. JOY! I look forward to forgetting all of your names by tomarrow.

*sobs*To bad this greedy corupt evil war monger nation gives the world and starving countrys more aid than most of the world combined. Who was the first ones in mogadishu to help the starving people thats right us. Who was the ones that came back to take out the warlord that was taking all the food and caused the deaths of 300,000 people, AND started killing U.N peacekeepers, thats right us. Even though we pulled out because our president was a pussy, our soldiers there were fighting 10,000s of 1000's of somalians they killed 19 of us we killed over 1000 of them. Our guys were outnumbered 100 to 1. We have been in numerous battles and wars over things no other country would even think of fighting for yeah thats right OTHER people, there is even some country in the caribean that our soldiers fought and protected the people from being taken over they first asked brittan and of course they refused so here comes america. Now the people there have a thank america day. You say some pretty hateful words there Kolte, I thought you guys were all about diversity of opinions? O yeah and pasifist kill no one attitude will get you nowhere. Read cmpcmp's post above me for more info.

[Grotesque]

cmpcmp..no need to title your believes, we are aware that they weren't thought up by professionals. No one would accuse of stealing.

[cmpcmp]

cmpcmp..no need to title your believes, we are aware that they weren't thought up by professionals. No one would accuse of stealing.
DON'T think it hasn't happened before! lol (JK)

Grotesque, anything constructive to say, maybe?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
But in all seriousness, If you are against war to solve terrorism then what is your solution? If you have one at all.

-Unless you think that Islamo Facism (and the like) will go away on its own. Or that america (and all first world countries) will be able to dodge every terrorist attack thats thrown at us. (how fast can u run? out run a nuke lately?)

-the only other option are things like UN mandates (dosen't necesarily have to be UN mandates per se), but as you have said that you wouldn't use war (correct me if im wrong) why would they follow the mandates? Its not like they follow them now even after The US and allies invaded Iraq and Afganistan and they know that were serious about that kida thing. SO if you wouldn't use force why would they follow them now?
--- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
IMO war is an evil thing, but sometimes evils are neccesary (like government) to accomplish tasks other wise not acheiveable.

PS any one who is in all actuality a War Mongerer (not some one who thinks terrorists deserve death and should be killed) some one who actualy wants war for no good reason, they are SICk and should get therapy or something.

[Makod]

war is hell.
it sucks.
its 2006 now. Time to go on offense. Screw this pacifist attitude that weve had for so long

And just for you politicaly correct libs that love picking apart my sentences (makod) no I am not talking about ALL muslims just the exteamists which are a small minority.

1. Heh this pacifist attitude we had for uhh... a few months before the Iraq War?

2. <3 you too.

[cmpcmp]

i think that we can all agree that war is bad and shouldn't be used lightly, but unless some one else has another possible solution that will stop ppl who think that it is thier duty to kill you form killing you, then......

-sit and wait for them to get nukes? (boom)

-iscolated missile strikes on their nuclear facilities? like a giant game of whach-a-mole w/ iran and N Korea, plus any one who they give the technology to / developes it themselves?

-scare them with UN sanctions? ooo their shaking in their boots, how long did sadaam starve and opress his own ppl under the harshest of UN sanctions? how amny ppl did the UN save in Rwanda? Sudan?.....

It seems the other options i can think of aren't particularly effective.

any one care to propose something constructive?
-----------------------------------------------------------
-edit

does it really matter what percent of terrorists are Muslim? the good question is, which ones hate the first world and want to see ALL infidels dead not just a neighboring tribe or single ethnic group.
this isn't to say that non muslim terrorists are "ok" in anyway, its just that were are more threatened by one than the other.

[kolte]

I agree with his exellency of Iran when he says that Isreal needs to go, and the united states with it. The middle east wouldnt be filled with havoc if these countries werent there stirring it up.

[Phantom]

I agree with his exellency of Iran when he says that Isreal needs to go, and the united states with it. The middle east wouldnt be filled with havoc if these countries werent there stirring it up.stirring it up what is wrong with you, have you never seen what they do or what they believe? Please educate yourself before you make such false staments. Start with these. You do know that in their eyes you are an infidel and must be killed. Its also because they teach their kids from day one to hate jews christians and infidels. As this like clearly shows http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r5iLhreGEg (She's 3!

http://www.michnews.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/113/4397

http://www.masada2000.org/islam.html

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/TheList.htm

[kolte]

fuck iseral. Fuck the united states of america. Fuck capatilism. Fuck religion. Fuck mankind. BAH. I hope we all die.

[Bobby]

Are we still moving to mongolia Kolte?

[kolte]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97NFNXk8aFc

the christians arent changing there children to be vile either

[Phantom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97NFNXk8aFc

the christians arent changing there children to be vile eitherYep seen that I got so pissed. I sent it to my christian friend on myspace and am currently haveing a debate with him. This is why I am an athiest

[kolte]

Are we still moving to mongolia Kolte?

I'm so there! THat or china. You know, theres an elder chinese woman who works at the 711 down the street from my work, I told her hello in chinese today, and she almost cried. She finally was able to relate to sombody in america. You know, i bet she moved to the states to start a better life then the one she had back home. And she ended up working at a 7-11. thats fucking sad. so now she wants to help me learn chinese. yays.

IRAQ. what are we still doing there. were killing more people then saddam ever killed. were causing disruption in iran. Were hurting the entire region economically.

we need to get rid of the us presense in the middle east
we need to get rid of isreal.

i said it. i mean it.

[Phantom]

IRAQ. what are we still doing there. were killing more people then saddam ever killed. were causing disruption in iran. Were hurting the entire region economically.

we need to get rid of the us presense in the middle east
we need to get rid of isreal.

i said it. i mean it.We are not just randomly killing people. We our helping their economy flourish and pouring millions into fixing their country. We are helping them more than you can comprehend. I garentee that if you had to live under what they lived through you would be begging for U.S to come.
Ok then lets just pack up and move 5 and a half million people. No we dont have to get rid of U.S presence they will just regroup and attack again, and take back afghanistan and Iraq and turn them into harsh theocracys that have to live under sharia (islamic law)

[kolte]

your sad sad brainwashed little fucker.

[Phantom]

your sad sad brainwashed little fucker.I think it is the oposite, as evidence shows.

[Grotesque]

We are not just randomly killing people. We our helping their economy flourish and pouring millions into fixing their country. We are helping them more than you can comprehend. I garentee that if you had to live under what they lived through you would be begging for U.S to come.
Ok then lets just pack up and move 5 and a half million people. No we dont have to get rid of U.S presence they will just regroup and attack again, and take back afghanistan and Iraq and turn them into harsh theocracys that have to live under sharia (islamic law)

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
no, we are not helping crap. If losing casualties and knocking over houses for no apparent reason is your motive, then you must be excited. who fucking cares about iraq. now we are the most targeted nation when we were not before. It is all because of brainwashed christians...damnit!

[Phantom]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
no, we are not helping crap. If losing casualties and knocking over houses for no apparent reason is your motive, then you must be excited. who fucking cares about iraq. now we are the most targeted nation when we were not before. It is all because of brainwashed christians...damnit!I am not a christian. If you think that we are not helping people and building ,schools, hospitals, public housing and more hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah on you you sad little sheltered kid. You know nothing of this war

[Grotesque]

I am not a christian. If you think that we are not helping people and building ,schools, hospitals, public housing and more hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah on you you sad little sheltered kid. You know nothing of this war

Yeah, education for possible future terrorists. I'm overjoyed. I don't care how rascist it is...it is true.
How am I sheltered? my parents are in rehab and i live by myself nearly half the time at the age of 14. I have seen plenty and know plenty.

[kolte]

You are the sheltered fool my phantom friend. CRY "CRY YOUR GUILTY TEARS. I sentence you to one long nap of 90 million years! and when the other children see this nap that never ends" They will not dare question those that one day will opress them. mushahahahahahha

[Phantom]

Yeah, education for possible future terrorists. I'm overjoyed. I don't care how rascist it is...it is true.
How am I sheltered? my parents are in rehab and i live by myself nearly half the time at the age of 14. I have seen plenty and know plenty.Have you ever once talked to sombody who has been there or lived there, that is not somthing the media dosnt show, like a lot of things. Let me tell you it is nothing like you have seen on your little cnn.

[Grotesque]

Have you ever once talked to sombody who has been there or lived there, that is not somthing the media dosnt show, like a lot of things. Let me tell you it is nothing like you have seen on your little cnn.

I go online..i hate tv.
where do you get your info? wedontrealizewearecluelessrepublicans.org?
i mean really.

[kolte]

I have a friend that is from Jordan. They are very nice, and they are very fond of there home country. They discussed with me the problems with america's global perspectives. You see, it is not the muslims themselves who are at fault here. It is america and isreal's fault that there is so much trouble. After WWII when isreal was made into a country, it forced all the previous, palistany peoples, millions i might add, out of there homes, and into other peoples land. Millions died, and still millions live in refugee camps, still hoping to one day return to there lands.

Isreal has caused great tension in the middle east. Many people have died in its name, and in the name against it.

The united states invasion of the middle east is also one of unjust cause. It only causes instability in the middle east, desimating the economy for millions. You cant build an economy by force. Only willed people can. And the majority of Iraqi's don't like america or americans. The majority americans do not like the war in Iraq.

This is not democrocy, this is a dictatorship. This country is doing something, that the majority of the people don't want it to. Doesnt that tell us something. BAH.

Lets look at the community, and stop with this unecessary global shit. please. phantom, grow some ideas and get back to me you simple minded, half witted, filthy little girl.

[cmpcmp]

I agree with his exellency of Iran when he says that Isreal needs to go, and the united states with it. The middle east wouldnt be filled with havoc if these countries werent there stirring it up.
U are blind, or u chose not to see. If the other counties didn't hate Jews, (not Israel as a state). There wouldn't really be any stir. When was Israel made? 50 years ago? what the average age of a suicide bomber? (yeat thats what i thoungt)
-When Israels was first made who declared wars against it? the impoverished exiles? no it was a bunch of Jew haters
"Following the State of Israel's establishment, the armies of Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and Iraq joined the fighting and began the second phase of the 1948 Arab – Israeli War."
were these states lands taken away? do u really think they were just sticking up for the ppl that were kicked out? yea right

its been 50 years!!!, last time i checked the midlde east wasn't out of room for ppl to live in, why don't they go to a country and settle there?

-what do you propose we do? kick the israelsies out now? where should they go? are they responsible for what the UN did for them 50 years ago?

i just don't see in the end how a rational person would side with Iran, a hardline religious theocracy that would shut down this board in a second if they could, over the US which is democratic and Free.

This country is doing something, that the majority of the people don't want it to.
this is false.
-while in hind site most ppl wouldn't have supported going in in the first place, most ppl aren't opposed to what we are currently doing. Most ppl don't want immediate or near immediate withdrawl, or phase redeployment or cut and run w/e u want to call it.



I have yet to see any awnsers with how to deal with terrirism, cept Kolte wants every one to die..... any one else?

[Makod]

I am not a christian. If you think that we are not helping people and building ,schools, hospitals, public housing and more hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah on you you sad little sheltered kid. You know nothing of this war

1. Just because you are not Christian does not mean you are smart. <.<

2. We are helping no one.

3. YOU are the sheltered kid, you believe whatever is fed to you by your retarded biased websites. NONE OF YOUR IDEAS are your own.

And on an unrelated note: Kolte, Mongolia would be a better choice to live than China.

[Phantom]

1. Just because you are not Christian does not mean you are smart. <.<

2. We are helping no one.

3. YOU are the sheltered kid, you believe whatever is fed to you by your retarded biased websites. NONE OF YOUR IDEAS are your own.

And on an unrelated note: Kolte, Mongolia would be a better choice to live than China.bull fucking shit. So I suppose building schools, hospitals, housing, giving free medicare, and all the other shit we build and gave to them is not helping them? Makod I pity you, you are a leftist pussy that cant think for yourself, you little cnn lies to you. I am sure you cant even tell the stuff you are watching is just blatent lies like most liberal stuff is, I am not saying republicans dont lie they do just not NEARLY as much.
I am sure you are one of the ones that accualy believed this OMFG BUSH IS A LIYAR!!!
http://www.shoutwire.com/viewstory/25095/If_We_Didn_t_Like_The_Answer_We_d_Shoot_His_Youngest_Kid_In_The_Head

well think again its MORE liberal shit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Macbeth

[kolte]

stop calling him a liberal you fucktard. You don't even know what that word means. And when did he say he watched fucking cnn. What a load of bs. You should be lynched.

[0=]

Cut and run? No. We need to get out before the entire world wants us destroyed, you think being assholes and killing more people is helping the situation? You think you can kill all the terrorists? Lets do some math, let's say you try to get t number of terrorists, but t to the second power is how many civilians, c, you kill in the process. P will equal the number of people pissed off, which will be greater than or equal to c to the second power. Let's say 1/4p=t, so no matter what, you end up with more terrorists than you killed. Lets plug some numbers in, let's say 2 terrorists, well you kill 4 civilians, so you've got at least 16 people. 1/4 of 16=4, so you've got 2x as many terrorists as you started with. This has a ripple effect, because next time you bomb the terrorists, you kill 16 civilians let's say, and let's say you have greater than or equal to 256 people pissed off at you for killing their family and friends, and causing property damage, and 1/4 of them decide they want to do something about it and become terrorists, so you have 64. This is merely and exaggerated example, the actual number of pissed off people who decide to try to kill us would be more like 1/16 or lower, but I didn't want to bore you, if I didn't already, with 2 pages of math. You need to understand that killing people isn't the solution.

Also, apparantly phantom has spewed more shit while I was typing this. Phantom, you are an ignorant little piece of shit, we don't watch CNN, that's full of bullshit just like Fox, we get our news from many different sources, I can't even count all my sources, I read articles all over the internet and you claim that we eat all the bullshit we're fed. This is as far as I cna speak for the others, I do not consider myself a liberal, I don't completely follow any single party, I hink for myself, unlike you, you probably get all your shit from Fox and spew it out here. Either pull your stupid little head out of your ass or stop trying to debate by spewing out "lies lies lies lies!!!! you're ignorant retard liars who read nothing but LIES!"

[cmpcmp]

stop calling him a liberal you fucktard. You don't even know what that word means. And when did he say he watched fucking cnn. What a load of bs. You should be lynched.

you might come off as more sympathetic and accepting of other ppl's opinions if u didn't often advocate lynching.

let's say you try to get t number of terrorists, but t to the second power is how many civilians, c, you kill in the process.
while you seem to have somewhat of a grasp for math, ur senenario makes no sense.
so no matter what, you end up with more terrorists than you killed.
SO, under your resoning, (there wasn't a terrorist reduction over time built in to ur formula) we can't ever get rid of the terrorists?

so my question is:
-How do you deal with growing opposition to you as an infidel? potentialy with nukes later, as you say we can't kill them cuz then they hate us more? Just laydown and take it?
(yess i know Kolte wants us to all be killed, thats his awnser i guess)
(ps, no matter what you say about them hating america they don't only hate america, they do things like bomb argentina, i mean WTF)

[cmpcmp]

Ok its been 4 days....

Does any body have a reasonable plan to stop state sposored terrorists from killing all free ppl in the world, and or making it one big islamic theocracy?
-If you lay down and take it, you can't ever "win" and will always be under attack (yes kolte i know)
-It will, is, and has grown and it won't stop just because america pulls out of Iraq and Afganistan.m It is state sponsored and feed to ppl form birth.

[Phantom]

Cut and run? No. We need to get out before the entire world wants us destroyed, you think being s and more people is helping the situation? You think you can kill all the ists? Lets do some math, let's say you try to get t number of ists, but t to the second power is how many civilians, c, you kill in the process. P will equal the number of people ed off, which will be greater than or equal to c to the second power. Let's say 1/4p=t, so no matter what, you end up with more ists than you killed. Lets plug some numbers in, let's say 2 ists, well you kill 4 civilians, so you've got at least 16 people. 1/4 of 16=4, so you've got 2x as many ists as you started with. This has a ripple effect, because next time you the ists, you kill 16 civilians let's say, and let's say you have greater than or equal to 256 people ed off at you for their family and friends, and causing property damage, and 1/4 of them decide they want to do something about it and become ists, so you have 64. This is merely and exaggerated example, the actual number of ed off people who decide to try to kill us would be more like 1/16 or lower, but I didn't want to bore you, if I didn't already, with 2 pages of math. You need to understand that people isn't the solution.

Also, apparantly phantom has spewed more while I was typing this. Phantom, you are an ignorant little piece of , we don't watch CNN, that's full of just like Fox, we get our news from many different sources, I can't even count all my sources, I read articles all over the internet and you claim that we eat all the we're fed. This is as far as I cna speak for the others, I do not consider myself a liberal, I don't completely follow any single party, I hink for myself, unlike you, you probably get all your from Fox and spew it out here. Either pull your stupid little head out of your ass or stop trying to debate by spewing out "lies lies lies lies!!!! you're ignorant retard liars who read nothing but LIES!"Ok lets dechipher your dumb post. First almost all the people that are killed are from a terrorist blowing himself up, the Iraqis and afgans are accualy getting pretty about this so more are helping us and joining the ING iraqi national guard. The ones we kill are because a terrorist is hiding in peoples houses and in schools (they love when civilians get killed). Has it ever ocured to you that our troops have a K;D ratio of about 40:1. We also kill ALOT of them as they try to ambush us on roads or our holed up in the mountains, your little math ecuation is seriously flawed. O yeah and another thing we have killed around 50,000 terrorists, they literaly send 10 man squads running while screaming and fireing rpgs and aks just to probe our defenses, they of course get cut down. Our troops are seeing less and less firefights because we are kiIIing most of them. Even if your little solution was true what are we just going to take it while they regroup plan and bomb somthing else? Accualy I do not watch FOX, and dont classify myself as a conservitive fully because I have some issues with the party. I also get my info from independant sources. I accualy like some dem policies besides anything that has to do with national security or war, its just the people in the party that make it seem dumb, like you. Yes you are a liberal and not just any liberal you are a stupid ignorant liberal that makes the rest of them look bad. O yeah btw I though liberalism was all about appretiation of diversity and diversity of opinion, you have clearly shown neither of those.