Opinions on Feminism

[steve1234]

Feminism seems to be a big talking point these days. Some people hate feminism, some people like it, but some people are unsure.

I think feminism has done great work in helping women become equal to men, and in places such as America and Britain, women and men are more or less equal these days. Of course, there are some cases where women have disadvantages to men, and where men have disadvantages to women. Also, women are still second class citizens in many developing countries.

But, are feminists doing more harm than good? I know not all feminists are like this, but there seems to be a lot of feminists who assume all men are rapists, and that they are all stupid idiots. Some feminists give the impression that that want MORE rights than men. Now, this type of feminism surely does more harm than good? It makes men angry that some women think all men are rapists, which makes some men react badly.

In the eyes of the law, men and women are supposedly equal, but in most divorce cases, the women ends up with custody of the children, and this is the same in the USA and UK.

Also, socially, women seem to be able to get away with treating men like objects, like all of these tennis players or football/soccer players, but if men treat women like objects, we are considered perverts.
I will admit, in general men are worse in treating the opposite sex as objects, but there are SOME women who are just as bad, or worse, and they can get away with it.
It also seems to be reflected in the media. If you look at adverts from, say the 1950s, most of them have women cleaning with the man leaving for work, and they sound very patronising. Now, if you look at adverts today, they seem to make men look like idiots. A lot of the men are sitting in front of the TV and look like slobs. Its as if sexism is turning the other way around, instead of being completley stopped.

One last point. I can't help thinking that SOME women only want equal rights when it suits them. For example, when have you seen a woman asking a man out? Personally, I have never seen this, and if you have then it doesn't happen often. For some reason, in many cases its still left up to the man to ask the girl out or propose. There has been research into this, and men are much more common sufferers of love shyness than women because we have to do all the asking.

Let me get this straight. I am all for equal rights, I wish everyone could be treated as equally as possible. My arguement is that it seems men are becoming less equal than women, and that is not right. The same way its not right that women are treated less equally than men.

So, what are your opinions and thoughts of feminism?

Thanks,
Steve

[Sage]

So, what are your opinions and thoughts of feminism?


Define feminism.

[INFERNO]

There are different forms of feminism and in your post, you seemed to have mentioned several types but never sticking to a given type or definition, so you'll need to give one for me to answer further.

[Jess]

hmmm maybe some do more harm than good....I agree with some parts of your posts....

[steve1234]

Well, im just talking about feminism in general.
Im not really sure how I would define feminism.

Heres a dictionary definition:
1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

[Sage]

Heres a dictionary definition:
1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

If that's how it's defined then yes, I am for the political, economic, and social equality of men and women.

[Awesome]

I guess im for it, but I'm not to crazy about it.

[Ryhanna]

Yes, I don't really see this as an issue... at least not a major one.

I think the past couple of generations, including our own, have grown up in a world where these sorts of things don't matter. We don't see women as kitchen hands and houseworkers anymore. They're just people, which is exactly what they are.

The same has (or is happening in some places) to racial differences. Most of America no longer sees African American's as "slaves," just people.

However, when people go around screaming that the slightest thing isn't fair on women, that pisses me off. Life has difficulties for everyone, deal with it.

[Peace God]

Feminists are okay...its those damn eco-feminists i hate!!

[Heretic]

When people stop playing the victim things seem to work out. I'm all for equality of sexes but not when everyone bitches about little stuff. Grow up and accept that being a woman is different than being a man. Same to you too you douchebag men.

[INFERNO]

Well, im just talking about feminism in general.
Im not really sure how I would define feminism.

Heres a dictionary definition:
1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

My point was given this general definition, there are many models of feminism and I was asking which models you were asking about because there are many, such as radical feminists (oppose traditional male-dominated society), liberal feminists (addresses legal issues), ecofeminists, anarchist feminism, etc... .

The general idea of equality I support but certain models or groups try to get it through various ways, some of them I don't support as much as others.

[steve1234]

My point was given this general definition, there are many models of feminism and I was asking which models you were asking about because there are many, such as radical feminists (oppose traditional male-dominated society), liberal feminists (addresses legal issues), ecofeminists, anarchist feminism, etc... .

The general idea of equality I support but certain models or groups try to get it through various ways, some of them I don't support as much as others.

Sorry, didn't realise there were different types like you have mentioned.
I would probably say i'm talking about radical feminists.

[Rutherford The Brave]

I'm up for feminism, I do see some sexism in our society and respect a women/men's right to fight for what they call injustices. The movement, is just a start it seems and if women want to gain power in rally then so be it. I am not however up for the whole women are better than man side of it. I think as a society we are equal and should be treated as such.

[Camazotz]

I think everyone here would support a woman's equality politically, socially, and economically. However, radical feminists seem to think of themselves above men and believe they deserve more rights instead of equal rights, which what most people disagree with. In the media, men are portrayed as lazy and hungry because it's a stereotype. Women appear in nearly all commercials involving vacuuming like Swiffer, or anything involving yogurt, because apparently men don't like yogurt. And unfortunately, the standard in society for asking someone out is the burden on the man, and unfortunately paying for every date. Is it equal? No. Is it fair? No. But we have to move on.

[Sith Lord 13]

I see feminism as sexism and as such oppose it.

[Obscene Eyedeas]

I see feminism as sexism and as such oppose it.
Why? How is it sexist? Honestly im for it and the problem really is people are too sensitive nowadays. I know women who get the same job as men and get paid less, is feminism not of benefit to them.

Also i disagree with the op where he says men are being treated unequal, more and more men end up with custody of the kids as of this century and also a lot of the girls around here ask the guy out, some even proposed. If you have studies to say otherwise please do post them

[Sith Lord 13]

Why? How is it sexist? Honestly im for it and the problem really is people are too sensitive nowadays. I know women who get the same job as men and get paid less, is feminism not of benefit to them.

Also i disagree with the op where he says men are being treated unequal, more and more men end up with custody of the kids as of this century and also a lot of the girls around here ask the guy out, some even proposed. If you have studies to say otherwise please do post them

In that case I do agree with it Laura, but I see that not so much as feminism but as the equality movement working for all who are discriminated against. Most feminism today is about affirmative action hires and the like. A less qualified woman will get the job instead of me because she's a woman. There are scholarships only for women. I see that as sexism. That is the majority of the feminist movement, at least in my experience. Now I also live in a different part of the world from you, so I'm guessing our experiences have been very different.

[Rutherford The Brave]

In that case I do agree with it Laura, but I see that not so much as feminism but as the equality movement working for all who are discriminated against. Most feminism today is about affirmative action hires and the like. A less qualified woman will get the job instead of me because she's a woman. There are scholarships only for women. I see that as sexism. That is the majority of the feminist movement, at least in my experience. Now I also live in a different part of the world from you, so I'm guessing our experiences have been very different.

There are scholarships that are for only boys as well. Also the majority of private schools in the country are boys only. Also the majority of people going to college now are women, and when you go to college your generally more qualified then someone who doesn't. I doubt that a big name organization would pick someone solely because they are women. That happened in the 50's. Did you also know that there are more women now signing up for the army then men as well? Women are just as capable to do anything then men are. Just because they have tits and a vagina doesn't mean they can't put a car together, or sign a big business deal. To say that they cannot is ignorant and stupid. After all they are human as well, how would they not be able to handle the things we can?

[Obscene Eyedeas]

I see that not so much as feminism but as the equality movement working for all who are discriminated against. Most feminism today is about affirmative action hires and the like.

I don't see a problem with that, in fact to scrap that would mean that we are not willing to move towards a more equal future.

A less qualified woman will get the job instead of me because she's a woman.

Please do give me an example because I am pretty sure that that is not the case. There is equality and then there is crossing the line. Jobs are gotten through skills and/or connections to the person hiring. If someone is less qualified they will not get the job just because of their gender.

There are scholarships only for women. I see that as sexism.

How is it sexist when there is the same for men?

That is the majority of the feminist movement, at least in my experience. Now I also live in a different part of the world from you, so I'm guessing our experiences have been very different.

Considering such things as the news and the internet I feel this point is irrelevant, I do follow foreign countries laws and news as much as I do my own as I do wish to live in another country when i qualify. Also how can you say it is the majority of the movement? Have you facts and studies to support this statement. Otherwise it is an opinion and invalid to this debate

[Sith Lord 13]

I don't see a problem with that, in fact to scrap that would mean that we are not willing to move towards a more equal future.

How does affirmative action make things more equal? It imbalances the applications, solely on the basis of gender, which, as has been stated, has zero impact on their capacity to perform a job.

Please do give me an example because I am pretty sure that that is not the case. There is equality and then there is crossing the line. Jobs are gotten through skills and/or connections to the person hiring. If someone is less qualified they will not get the job just because of their gender.

This following is in reference to race not gender but similar events have happened in regards to gender (I just can't seem to find them at the moment) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regents_of_the_University_of_California_v._Bakke

As you see, more qualified applicants were passed over because they were not of the favored subset. Here it was race, but it could just as easily have been women.

To quote a US supreme justice: "The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race." I say race could easily be switched with gender there, and it would still hold true.

How is it sexist when there is the same for men?

I see those as sexist too. I feel gender should have nothing to do with scholarships.

Considering such things as the news and the internet I feel this point is irrelevant, I do follow foreign countries laws and news as much as I do my own as I do wish to live in another country when i qualify. Also how can you say it is the majority of the movement? Have you facts and studies to support this statement. Otherwise it is an opinion and invalid to this debate

Since this debate is about our opinions on feminism, I saw it as mainly referring to the feminism we see in our daily lives/ that which affects us the most. That's why I thought our differing locals would affect how we see it. When I said the majority, I was referring to the majority of feminism that I have experienced. I should have been clearer and for that I apologize.

[Rutherford The Brave]

How does affirmative action make things more equal? It imbalances the applications, solely on the basis of gender, which, as has been stated, has zero impact on their capacity to perform a job.



This following is in reference to race not gender but similar events have happened in regards to gender (I just can't seem to find them at the moment) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regents_of_the_University_of_California_v._Bakke

As you see, more qualified applicants were passed over because they were not of the favored subset. Here it was race, but it could just as easily have been women.
To quote a US supreme justice: "The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race." I say race could easily be switched with gender there, and it would still hold true.



I see those as sexist too. I feel gender should have nothing to do with scholarships.



Since this debate is about our opinions on feminism, I saw it as mainly referring to the feminism we see in our daily lives/ that which affects us the most. That's why I thought our differing locals would affect how we see it. When I said the majority, I was referring to the majority of feminism that I have experienced. I should have been clearer and for that I apologize.

So let me get this entirely straight you defense is that it's discriminating, and yet your discriminating over women? I smell something fishy.

[Sith Lord 13]

So let me get this entirely straight you defense is that it's discriminating, and yet your discriminating over women? I smell something fishy.

Where am I discriminating over women?

[Rutherford The Brave]

Your essntially just saying that women don"t earn jobs they just get picked as a novelty thing and a way balancing out the workplace.

[Sith Lord 13]

Your essntially just saying that women don"t earn jobs they just get picked as a novelty thing and a way balancing out the workplace.

No, because not all places use affirmative action. And in the places who do use affirmative action, some of the women they hire would have gotten hired anyway.

I believe in complete equality. There are aspects of feminism I appreciate, because of how it's changed the world. I love the fact that a woman wouldn't feel weird asking a man out, or proposing. I believe gender has no place in most decisions. Unfortunately, in my experience, feminism today, in my life, has been not about leveling any playing field but giving women an unfair advantage over men.

[Rutherford The Brave]

No, because not all places use affirmative action. And in the places who do use affirmative action, some of the women they hire would have gotten hired anyway.

I believe in complete equality. There are aspects of feminism I appreciate, because of how it's changed the world. I love the fact that a woman wouldn't feel weird asking a man out, or proposing. I believe gender has no place in most decisions. Unfortunately, in my experience, feminism today, in my life, has been not about leveling any playing field but giving women an unfair advantage over men.

What I'm saying is that it's not. For years women were expected to have dinner done around the same time every night. I sense some manly paranoia. I feel like its fair, no one woman has ever bragged to me about getting oppertunities that I normally wouldnt get. Because I have my own that she probably wouldnt get,

[Junky]

What I'm saying is that it's not. For years women were expected to have dinner done around the same time every night. I sense some manly paranoia. I feel like its fair, no one woman has ever bragged to me about getting oppertunities that I normally wouldnt get. Because I have my own that she probably wouldnt get,
He's talking about companies colleges and universities making "quotas" and it does in fact exist.

[Rutherford The Brave]

He's talking about companies colleges and universities making "quotas" and it does in fact exist.

Yeah well, he missed out on his time to shine because these days there are alot more qualified women then men.

[Junky]

Yeah well, he missed out on his time to shine because these days there are alot more qualified women then men.

Not necessarily, I'm not taking sides here because i can see it both ways:
There are women who would use their assest to get a job, and I'm sure it does happen.
But at the same time their are many industries run by men that will continue to stay that way for the foreseeable future.

[Sith Lord 13]

Manly paranoia? No. I just believe in an equal playing field. And what exactly do you expect to have them brag to you? It's not like they say on the acceptance letters you got in because you were female. Do some research on affirmative action, you'll see what I'm talking about.


Yeah well, he missed out on his time to shine because these days there are alot more qualified women then men.

Bull. Men and women are equal. There should be slightly more qualified women than men, and that's due to there being slightly more men than women on this planet.

[Rutherford The Brave]

Manly paranoia? No. I just believe in an equal playing field. And what exactly do you expect to have them brag to you? It's not like they say on the acceptance letters you got in because you were female. Do some research on affirmative action, you'll see what I'm talking about.

All I'm saying is that it's pretty equal and I want to know why you don't see that.

[Junky]

All I'm saying is that it's pretty equal and I want to know why you don't see that.
Last time i checked i couldnt get a job at hooters :P

[Sith Lord 13]

All I'm saying is that it's pretty equal and I want to know why you don't see that.

1) Pretty equal is not equal. Men and women are equal people, and, as such, any inequality, in either direction, is abhorrent to me.

2) I don't see it as pretty equal. I see the fact that a man with higher test scores will be passed over for a lesser qualified woman in many circumstances. And I think that is equally wrong as the reverse.

[Obscene Eyedeas]

How does affirmative action make things more equal? It imbalances the applications, solely on the basis of gender, which, as has been stated, has zero impact on their capacity to perform a job.

Please show me some evidence on this please. A person who cannot perform a job will not be given it or fired soon after.

This following is in reference to race not gender but similar events have happened in regards to gender (I just can't seem to find them at the moment) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regents_of_the_University_of_California_v._Bakke

If it is in reference to race and not gender then it has no hold in this debate and is of little concern to me when looking at feminism.

As you see, more qualified applicants were passed over because they were not of the favored subset. Here it was race, but it could just as easily have been women.

But it wasn't because they were women.

To quote a US supreme justice: "The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race." I say race could easily be switched with gender there, and it would still hold true.

You are using studies and quotes on a subject that is not being discussed and you are placing your own words here without facts.

I see those as sexist too. I feel gender should have nothing to do with scholarships.

It has nothing to do with sexism I fail to see the problem when both are given similar chances and similar money for similar grants. Also once again we are talking about feminism but if we must stray to sexism, that would be handing out different grants to men and women with less money for a particular gender because they were a different gender.

Since this debate is about our opinions on feminism, I saw it as mainly referring to the feminism we see in our daily lives/ that which affects us the most. That's why I thought our differing locals would affect how we see it. When I said the majority, I was referring to the majority of feminism that I have experienced. I should have been clearer and for that I apologize.

I will agree with you on this point simply because you are saying locally but really all that you have said is opinion, for an opinion to have any validity one must have facts or studies or even observations (recognized ones) to support it.

No, because not all places use affirmative action.

Very few do and the ones that do are fair with it, they won't hire someone they know can't do the job.

Last time i checked i couldnt get a job at hooters :P

Do you have the necessary qualifications?

2) I don't see it as pretty equal. I see the fact that a man with higher test scores will be passed over for a lesser qualified woman in many circumstances. And I think that is equally wrong as the reverse.

Once again im going to have to ask you for some evidence or facts to back up this claim as I find it ridiculous. It is simply your opinion until you validate it with facts

[The Dark Lord]

I am for equal rights for men and women. However I despise feminists, which merely encourage tockenism and positive discrimination. In Britain, ever female politician seems to be a feminist and there is now a law encouraging employers to discriminate on the grounds of gender and ethnic minority. Men and Women are pretty much equal and feminism should be crushed

[Jess]

men and women aren't equal in every country though, right? isn't in some countries, women can't be the one driving or something?

[Obscene Eyedeas]

I am for equal rights for men and women. However I despise feminists, which merely encourage tockenism and positive discrimination. In Britain, ever female politician seems to be a feminist and there is now a law encouraging employers to discriminate on the grounds of gender and ethnic minority. Men and Women are pretty much equal and feminism should be crushed

Which law is that?

men and women aren't equal in every country though, right? isn't in some countries, women can't be the one driving or something?

I have not heard of that. Either you are speaking of a third world country or if you are not i would like to see some facts on this