Welfare Drug Testing

[Antares]

I recently heard this brilliant idea (imo) and I was wondering what you guys thought about it.

Okay, so they make people get drug tests in order to get a job. Lots of people disagree with that principle, personally I don't care because I have nothing to hide.

On the other hand, we have people getting welfare and lets be honest, they sometimes use that money to buy illegal drugs.

What if we made it requried for all welfare receivers to get a drug test before they got it?

What do you think?

[Bougainvillea]

I think it's a terrific idea. Because I believe that way to many people take advantage of government programs. And drugs seem like they would play a big part in that.

[INFERNO]

I think it's a good idea and they should also check for abuse of prescription medications, such as oxycontin, hydrocodone and similar ones because these prescription ones are also being used illegally and bought illegally just as actual illegal substances are. I suppose the best way is to look into their medical history and see if they have been legally prescribed the prescription drugs. I wouldn't say to judge the person or refuse the person to get welfare based on their diagnoses but simply as a way to see if they may be abusing the prescription drugs.

It's a great idea because it hopefully can prevent abuse of government systems.

[Sith Lord 13]

I'm all for it. Welfare recipients have a large overlap the with illegal drug use population (due to a majority of illegal drug use being done by persons from disadvantaged situations). Either they're going to go off welfare, or they're gonna get caught for illegal drug use. Win-win situation if you ask me.

[The Batman]

I'm all for it. Welfare recipients have a large overlap the with illegal drug use population (due to a majority of illegal drug use being done by persons from disadvantaged situations). Either they're going to go off welfare, or they're gonna get caught for illegal drug use. Win-win situation if you ask me.

It's not hard to trick a drug test though I know some potheads who pass them after getting high the night before -_-

[Sith Lord 13]

It's not hard to trick a drug test though I know some potheads who pass them after getting high the night before -_-

True. Better than nothing though, no?

[The Batman]

I think the welfare offices should work more closely with the people and trying to find them a job.

[Sith Lord 13]

I think the welfare offices should work more closely with the people and trying to find them a job.

Agreed.

[Antares]

Well this wouldn't necessarily be to get back at those who are getting welfare. It is just more to equal the playing field. It is stupid to have poeple not work...because theyre high yet they can get govt dollars while high and spending it on crack every night.

And for the security thing, many employers make that drug test iron proof. So official and such.
They already do have some restrictions, for instance there is a max you can be on food stamps here.

[Sith Lord 13]

I'm against hard limits but for stricter evaluations.

I can't stand when people scam the system, but some people really can't find jobs.

[CaptainObvious]

I am extremely against workplace drug testing, but definitely support this idea. However, only if it includes alcohol and tobacco as disallowable substances. There's no reason, from the point of view of welfare, to ban illegal drugs for being addictive yet not ban two of the most addictive drugs on the planet simply because they are legal.

[Antares]

I am extremely against workplace drug testing, but definitely support this idea. However, only if it includes alcohol and tobacco as disallowable substances. There's no reason, from the point of view of welfare, to ban illegal drugs for being addictive yet not ban two of the most addictive drugs on the planet simply because they are legal.

I don't agree with this.
Workplace drug testing tests for illegal drugs.
They can use legal drugs.

How come a welfare recepient can't use legal drugs too. Considering that usually they are already using these (esp tobacco) before they get on welfare and also acknowledging the fact that they are real people too, just like you or me

[JunkBondTrader]

I am extremely against workplace drug testing, but definitely support this idea. However, only if it includes alcohol and tobacco as disallowable substances. There's no reason, from the point of view of welfare, to ban illegal drugs for being addictive yet not ban two of the most addictive drugs on the planet simply because they are legal.

A smoker, unlike a crack addict, is capable of holding down a job, as is someone who drinks alcohol in moderation. In addition, they are not doing what illegal drug users are doing which is spending government money on something not sanctioned by the government, all arguments about the effectiveness of drug legality aside.

But my opinion would be that just because someone's recieving state benefits/welfare doesn't mean they're a second class citizen. Employers perform drug tests because users of certain illegal substances have been known for their general inability to conform to workplace standards.

And what if someone can't get a job because they're on drugs? Should we just throw those people out on the street and let them starve? They'll still be doing drugs, they'll just be robbing and stealing to fund their habits.

[Whisper]

drug testing isn't cheap and can be easily fooled
on the scale that you're suggesting the cost would be astronomical
a cost that would be put squarly on hard working tax payers ON TOP of the wellfair costs itself

This is a retarded idea
i'm not paying for yet more shit that can be easily fooled. Not to mention its disregard for any context and how it ignores the entire socio-economic reality of allot of societies poor.
This wouldn't solve the problem if anything it would make hardcore drug addicts all that more desperate leading to higher crime and assault rates.

My god Vancouver's lower east-side alone....
Fuck.
That.

[CaptainObvious]

I don't agree with this.
Workplace drug testing tests for illegal drugs.
They can use legal drugs.

How come a welfare recepient can't use legal drugs too. Considering that usually they are already using these (esp tobacco) before they get on welfare and also acknowledging the fact that they are real people too, just like you or me

Because the only defensible rationale for drug testing welfare recipients is on the basis that they're going to spend frivolous money on something they shouldn't be while simultaneously being supported by society. That is mostly a problem with illegal drugs, but tobacco and alcohol are equally addictive and a waste of money for people supported by society.

[Antares]

Well I recently had one done and unless i had a frickin bag of urine strapped to me, there was no way to fool it since it was a room which had no working water and whatever was collected had to be produced from some point on your body, but honestly, it is possible to have people maybe change into gowns and then take the drug test. There are ways to make the test more secure.
And should anyone object to the procedures set by the government, they just don't need to get the welfare. If you really need it, you will go into a doctor type environment and pee in a cup.

As far as cost go, I did a little research and this is what i found is that the national average for cost is 44 bucks.
http://www.ohsinc.com/DRUG_TESTING_COST_DRUG_TEST_COST_HOME_PAGE.htm

Now, that is for private corporations. If the government led the way, I am positive that the cost could be cut down quite a bit.

But lets think about it this way: it makes more sense to save money administering a drug test and weeding out the people that waste it on crack every day rather than giving it out to anyone for them to blow millions and millions of dollars collectively.

I would rather drug test

[zippy]

Dude I agree completely! My dad,uncle and I had this same discussion a few days ago it makes perfect sense to make sure people aren't abusing it, but they'll always be something for them to spend frivolous taxpayers dollars on but drug testing would be a giant leap forward.

[myskias]

i really really like this idea.. send a letter to your senator or something haha

[Sage]

I'll support this after marijuana is legalized.

[JunkBondTrader]

tobacco and alcohol are equally addictive and a waste of money for people supported by society.

I'd call them a luxury. They're not necessary to live but neither is a television or a CD player. Something's addictive? Big deal. A smoker can hold down a job as can someone who drinks alcohol in moderation. A crack addict cannot.

[CaptainObvious]

I'd call them a luxury. They're not necessary to live but neither is a television or a CD player. Something's addictive? Big deal. A smoker can hold down a job as can someone who drinks alcohol in moderation. A crack addict cannot.

Yeah, but there's a hell of a lot of illegal drugs on the spectrum in between crack and tobacco - and a number even less damaging than tobacco. Tim really gets the point:

I'll support this after marijuana is legalized.

I find it absolutely outrageous that one would test for marijuana and not tobacco or alcohol, both of which are more addictive and probably both more deleterious to a person leading a productive life (maybe not tobacco on that count).

If by "illegal drugs" we changed the criterion to "highly addictive drugs whose consistent use is incompatible with living a productive, normal life" then I would agree. But legality is a poor basis to discriminate on this point, imo.

[Bougainvillea]

But legality is a poor basis to discriminate on this point, imo
Right. Especially when you look at the amount of money people spend on cigarettes and alcohol each year.

[Antares]

Then again...the point of even testing for drugs in the first place is to see if someone is doing illegal activies. Not to try to dictate what they do what they're money.

Therefore, its ridiculous to suggest that people shouldn't use legal drugs, even if they do get welfare (keeping in mind that a good chunk of people that get welfare have a small job too).
If you don't want them to use it, make it illegal. Then it would make sense

[CaptainObvious]

Then again...the point of even testing for drugs in the first place is to see if someone is doing illegal activies. Not to try to dictate what they do what they're money.

This is our fundamental disagreement. I am of the opinion that the only thing welfare should care about in this context about is whether the recipient is wasting the money on frivolity or addiction, and that legality should have nothing to do with it.

[Iron Man]

That is a fantastic idea. Not to get off topic, but, a lot of people who do get welfare that don`t do drugs are completely capable of working, but don`t work. As a side note, shouldn`t a separate backround check be made to see if they can work before giving free money?

[Peace God]

On the other hand, we have people getting welfare and lets be honest, they sometimes use that money to buy illegal drugs.

Yeah...and some people use for gambling, alcohol and prescription drugs.


What if we made it requried for all welfare receivers to get a drug test before they got it?
A waste of time and money.

Yes, abuse of these programs should be stopped but not by making taxpayers pay even more money for a drug testing system that "hard drug" addicts can easily pass by not smoking crack or heroin for 3-5 days. The only people that would fail are people that forgot to stop or couldnt stop for a few days... and potheads.

[Sith Lord 13]

Yes, abuse of these programs should be stopped but not by making taxpayers pay even more money for a drug testing system that "hard drug" addicts can easily pass by not smoking crack or heroin for 3-5 days. The only people that would fail are people that forgot to stop or couldnt stop for a few days... and potheads.

Or you test the hair.

[CaptainObvious]

Or you test the hair.

And what, ban shaving?

[Antares]

Obviously it isn't a perfect solution.
People are gonna find ways to waste money from the government but at least it is a step in the right direction.

[Sith Lord 13]

And what, ban shaving?

Give a choice: a hair test going back six months, or random dug screenings every few days.

[CaptainObvious]

Give a choice: a hair test going back six months, or random dug screenings every few days.

Clearly the latter would be a good use of the government's money...

(That's sarcasm. Testing that often would cost as much as or more than welfare itself.)

[The Dark Lord]

That is an excellent idea. Those underclass layabouts waste the state's money on drugs, which is wrong. I would go further: Anyone who wants welfare should be forced to do community service instead of spending all day at home getting high. George Osborne announced today a clapdown of disability benefits, which is a great idea, to stop the endless welfare support the time wasters have enjoyed under Labour

[Sith Lord 13]

Clearly the latter would be a good use of the government's money...

(That's sarcasm. Testing that often would cost as much as or more than welfare itself.)

The frequency would be cut down the longer you stayed on the program. You're right that it's not the most practical, but perhaps it could be incentivised by say taking a deduction from the welfare check of those who refused to provide hair samples.

If you can come up with a better manner of implementation, please, do so. I admit my choice is not the most cost efficient, but I believe that it would still be better than nothing.

[Scarface]

Welfare people should get tested. As you said in the first post some people do use it for illegal drugs and don't use the money appropriately. For those who don't use drugs should pass straight through the test. What about continuous testing for the notorious convicted and charged drug users? The people should use the money appropriately as most of them as also said in a previous post are always capable of working just choose not to. We have a program for the state of Florida called "Work force One" it makes people that are unemployed, section 8, and welfare cases show up to an office for labor work, construction and other areas of work. This does not go for the people on disability however. Sorry to be off topic I just thought I would point that out.