lying about age to save money

[Jess]

lying is wrong, yes, but my parents do it to save money, for example for this restaurant adults are counted as children over 13, and my mom likes to say that I am 11 and my brother 12.

also we are on vacation right now and my dad says to every hotel that there is only one child (to save money)

is this bad?

[Sith Lord 13]

It's meh.

Children's portions are usually smaller, so it's fair I think, especially if you're not going to finish an adult sized meal.

For the hotel, it doesn't cost the hotel anymore to have a second kid staying there, so it's not a big deal in my mind. Not saying it's right, but it's not exactly all that bad either.

[INFERNO]

It's a lie but it's not one that harms anyone in any great way. The restaurant gets some of the money and you get the food. It's not right but it's something pretty insignificant and has small magnitude. If the amount of food given to you is enough for you, then it's not a problem but if you leave still very hungry, then it has a larger magnitude of being wrong because the parents' lies about you negatively affect you.

For hotels, if what Sith_Lord_13 says is true, then it's not a concern for me.

[Φρανκομβριτ]

My dad did it all the time. It's not right, but eventually, they'll get caught on it.

[ShatteredWings]

my parents did this as long as they could get away with it [which wasn't much past the age anyway, but if they could it would have gone on for awhile]

Usually it was to get into places that have a "children 12 and under are free / $2"

I don't really see what's wrong with it. I'm sure it's on somewhat shakey moral ground, but whatever

[Ryhanna]

I think that it's okay.

With the GFC and all some people need to save as much money as they can.

As long as you don't go overboard with it, like I think your Dad's hotel thing was a little close to the boundary, but don't worry about it.

[AutumnDae]

Sometimes I still get charged the kid's ticket at the movies. Even though I'm 16, but I don't ask for that.

The hotel might be a bit bad though, what if there was a fire, and the only list of people they had said you weren't a guest. Not too good there.

[steve1234]

Jess, those type of lies aren't really that bad. A lot of people say those little type of lies. Its when the lies start to harm other people is when it gets bad. The restaurant loaing out on a few dollars isnt exactly harming them.

I will admit, I have done it a few times. I use the bus a lot, so have loads of old tickets in my wallet.
I showed the bus driver my return ticket, whtout realising I was showing an old one, and not the vaild one, but he didn't really look at it properly. A few times after that, I just showed the drivers old tickets to get a ride, and it worked.
Maybe I was wrong in doing this, it was slightly over the top, but loads of people do things like this.

[The Dark Lord]

The restuarant thing everyone does it, the portions are smaller and it costs less so no one loses out.

However, what your dad is doing is WRONG. That is a clear lie and he is stealing from the hotel

[Sage]

Lying isn't always wrong. If you can save money and get away with it, great. It's the hotel's loss for not being able to pick up on it. You benefit and the only people being 'hurt' are faceless strangers that you'll never run into again for the rest of your life. If you honestly care about them, then you're just an over-emotional bleeding heart and you deserve to pay the full price.

[Junky]

The restuarant thing everyone does it, the portions are smaller and it costs less so no one loses out.

However, what your dad is doing is WRONG. That is a clear lie and he is stealing from the hotel
TBH how is he hurting the hotel? They don't clean anymore or provide more of a service if you tell the truth so who does it ultimately hurt?
I wouldn't quite take what Deschain is saying at face value though..

[JunkBondTrader]

TBH how is he hurting the hotel? They don't clean anymore or provide
more of a service if you tell the truth so who does it ultimately hurt?
I think what he means is, the hotel make their money based on the number of people staying there. Granted, the extra person doesn't cost them anything, but it's still kinda ripping them off since you're recieving a service from them (that being, a roof over your head) that you didn't pay for.

I wouldn't quite take what Deschain is saying at face value though..
Neither would I. :P No offense.

[Jess]

My dad isn't stealing from the hotel. he wants to save money. we aren't rich and if we get 2 more children checked in it will cost a lot more. and we stayed at like 6 hotels.

[belfordrocks]

____

[Contra]

My parents used to do that to save money. I remember when we were trying to get into a water park, and my parents said my 7 year old sister was 6 so they wouldn't have to pay for her ticket.
They haven't done it in a long time....
But it's not that wrong.

[The Dark Lord]

My dad isn't stealing from the hotel. he wants to save money. we aren't rich and if we get 2 more children checked in it will cost a lot more. and we stayed at like 6 hotels.

Yes he is, he is taking money from the hotel which IS stealing. Its dishonest, mean sprited and pathetic.

[Jess]

No he isn't..........

[Eskimo]

Yeah my parents do this all the time, I guess it's ok.

[Bougainvillea]

No he isn't..........

You don't seem to understand.

He's cheating the hotel out of money. He's not paying full price for the service that is being provided.

It's like not paying taxes. It's stealing.

[imcool_17]

yeah its kinda bad haha but a loooot of people do it so you don't have to be so guilty about it.

[chrissm]

My dad isn't stealing from the hotel. he wants to save money. we aren't rich and if we get 2 more children checked in it will cost a lot more. and we stayed at like 6 hotels.
Technically it may not be stealling, but it is dishonest, I guess it would be classed as fraud.

The maids and waiters at that hotel wont be rich either but depend for their jobs on the hotel making a profit and staying in business. By swindling the hotel out of money those jobs effectively are put at risk. Its naive to think that noone is being hurt by it.

[The Dark Lord]

No he isn't..........

Yes he is, he is deliberately cheating other hard working decent human beings out of money, which is the defination of stealing.

[Sith Lord 13]

Yes he is, he is deliberately cheating other hard working decent human beings out of money, which is the defination of stealing.

Um Matt, the definition of stealing is to take what doesn't belong to you. You can argue the ethics of it, but you can't truthfully call it stealing.

He paid for the room, why the hell should it matter how many people are inside it? Not costing the hotel any more.

[nick]

He paid for the room, why the hell should it matter how many people are inside it? Not costing the hotel any more.
Its completely irrelevant that its not costing the hotel anymore. Some hotels charge per room and others charge per person, you know which it is at the time that you make the booking so if you dont like it choose a different hotel.

[Zephyr]

It's very common for this to go on. My parents never did it, but some of my friends parents would. I remember one time, we went to a restaurant for a friend's 14th birthday, and her parents passed all 4 of us girls off as 11/12 to get a discount for being 'kids'.

Hell, whenever my sister and I go to the movies, I'll say that we're both students just so that she can get in at a discount. They never check your ID.

[Kaya]

i dont think its stealing. my parents do it all the time

[MyNameIsJack]

asdfas

[Heretic]

You don't seem to understand.

He's cheating the hotel out of money. He's not paying full price for the service that is being provided.

It's like not paying taxes. It's stealing.

Oh please Mr. Goody Two Shoes. Who cares? It won't ruin the hotel, it won't ruin anyone's day, it won't do anything except make it easier on some people that probably need a few breaks here and there. Is that so wrong?

[Jess]

This is the only time he did this, for all the hotels we stayed at. other times I don't think he ever did it.

[The Dark Lord]

This is the only time he did this, for all the hotels we stayed at. other times I don't think he ever did it.

So if he had killed someone once, then its okay so long as he didn't do it again. It is cowardly and dishonest and wrong. If this was a celebrity or a politician then they would be crucifixed, just because its joe public it doesn't make it right

[Jess]

well I don't care what you say, I don't think he stole any money. that's my final thought.

[Bougainvillea]

YOU don't think he did.
But really, he did.

Oh please Mr. Goody Two Shoes. Who cares? It won't ruin the hotel, it won't ruin anyone's day, it won't do anything except make it easier on some people that probably need a few breaks here and there. Is that so wrong?
The money you pay goes towards the services that are provided to you. Not doing so is sneaky and cheap.

Unless you like using a bar of soap, a complete stranger just used. Or towels with shit streaks on them, or a bed with someone's condom still in it. :rolleyes:

[Jess]

I know what he did is wrong, but I still don't think he's STEALING

[Bougainvillea]

Do you think taking a candybar without paying is stealing?

[The Dark Lord]

well I don't care what you say, I don't think he stole any money. that's my final thought.

If you don't care what I think, why ask? He clearly stole. Could you give me a defination of stealing? Its people like you and your dad that cost billions of pounds each year. We are in a global financial crisis and people are fighting for jobs and your dad is cheating people out of money and out of jobs. If you want to save money: DON'T GO ON HOLIDAY

[Sith Lord 13]

He clearly stole. Could you give me a defination of stealing?

Um Matt, the definition of stealing is to take what doesn't belong to you. You can argue the ethics of it, but you can't truthfully call it stealing.

Already done Matt.

[The Dark Lord]

Already done Matt.

I was asking Jess as she seems incapable of accepting what her dad did was wrong

[Sith Lord 13]

I was asking Jess as she seems incapable of accepting what her dad did was wrong

First of all, Matt, you're treating this like it's murder 1. It's not. It's dubiously ethical, and dubiously legal. I'm guessing you haven't seen some of her other mentions of this trip. It wasn't, to my understanding, a holiday, but rather a trip to see various colleges in preparation for applying.

Second, your proposal, that they not go at all as opposed to going in this cheaper manner, hurts the economy far worse than what her father did. Hell, the hotels would rather he did what he did than not stay at all. Rather than leave the room vacant, and make no money, they are at least getting something for the room now, more than they would have gotten otherwise.

[Jess]

so someone neg repped me for being a thief? I'm the thief? I thought it was my dad who was the 'thief'?

btw, we've been planning for this trip for several months, my brother has to apply for college soon, that was the main reason we went on this trip.

You can keep saying he's a thief, but he already done what he'd done, too late to turn back.

@Sith Lord - thanks.

[trouble]

Its a lie with benefits

[The Dark Lord]

First of all, Matt, you're treating this like it's murder 1. It's not. It's dubiously ethical, and dubiously legal. I'm guessing you haven't seen some of her other mentions of this trip. It wasn't, to my understanding, a holiday, but rather a trip to see various colleges in preparation for applying.

Second, your proposal, that they not go at all as opposed to going in this cheaper manner, hurts the economy far worse than what her father did. Hell, the hotels would rather he did what he did than not stay at all. Rather than leave the room vacant, and make no money, they are at least getting something for the room now, more than they would have gotten otherwise.

Sorry for believing the principle of taking something that doesn't belong to you is wrong. If everyone just said it doesn't make a difference, then the economy WOULD suffer, it is merely a principle.

so someone neg repped me for being a thief? I'm the thief? I thought it was my dad who was the 'thief'?

btw, we've been planning for this trip for several months, my brother has to apply for college soon, that was the main reason we went on this trip.

You can keep saying he's a thief, but he already done what he'd done, too late to turn back.

@Sith Lord - thanks.

If he has already done it, then why ask for advice in the first place? I ask you for the 2nd time: What is your defination of stealing? Your inability to defend yourself, relying instead on Sith Lord, shows that what your dad did was wrong, even if it wasn't stealing (and I'm not saying its not), It was fraud and morally wrong. What don't you understand?

[Aspiringanonymous]

Family and Friends :arrow: ROTW

[crimsonangel]

To me a lie is a lie. I do NOT like lying in front of children as they might start to believe that it is okay. Eventually children will learn that not everything their parents do is okay, but old habits die hard :)

I believe that the hotel thing is wrong, and how does he not get caught? Don't they check to see how many people come in and/or out of the hotel?

You may believe that it is not wrong, but lying is immoral be it a small lie or a big lie.

[The Ninja]

It's meh.

Children's portions are usually smaller, so it's fair I think, especially if you're not going to finish an adult sized meal.

For the hotel, it doesn't cost the hotel anymore to have a second kid staying there, so it's not a big deal in my mind. Not saying it's right, but it's not exactly all that bad either.

i agree completely

[Jess]

To me a lie is a lie. I do NOT like lying in front of children as they might start to believe that it is okay. Eventually children will learn that not everything their parents do is okay, but old habits die hard :)

I believe that the hotel thing is wrong, and how does he not get caught? Don't they check to see how many people come in and/or out of the hotel?

You may believe that it is not wrong, but lying is immoral be it a small lie or a big lie.

they don't know. we don't come in with him when my dad checks in.

I KNOW it's wrong, but what I'm saying is that he isn't stealing money, at least that's what I believe. He's just not paying as much.

my definition of stealing is taking something that isn't yours.

I didn't like what he was doing, and I won't do it ever. but I couldn't do anything. I tried to tell my mom it was wrong, but she waved it off.

I stayed at more than 1 hotel. at least 6. and only one I stayed for three days.

I know it was wrong but we can't change the past. he's done it. Period. Now I think we should get this thread locked

I don't really want to argue over this hotel situation anymore.

A mod lock this thread please......thank you

[The Dark Lord]

they don't know. we don't come in with him when my dad checks in.

I KNOW it's wrong, but what I'm saying is that he isn't stealing money, at least that's what I believe. He's just not paying as much.

my definition of stealing is taking something that isn't yours.

I didn't like what he was doing, and I won't do it ever. but I couldn't do anything. I tried to tell my mom it was wrong, but she waved it off.

I stayed at more than 1 hotel. at least 6. and only one I stayed for three days.

I know it was wrong but we can't change the past. he's done it. Period. Now I think we should get this thread locked

I don't really want to argue over this hotel situation anymore.

A mod lock this thread please......thank you

What a strange reaction. Asking for opinions then dismissing them.

We are not arguing, ROTW is a debate/discussion forum. This thread had evolved to a much wider debate, regarding ethics and beliefs. I can't understand why you can't see and accept that. I think you are over reacting to other people's criticism of your dad's behaviour. If this thread is locked then I would like the final word: Deliberately missing someone for personal gain is ethnical wrong and should be discouraged and perhaps even procecuted. It is unfair on the thousands of decent human beings who don't do it. That is my opinion and it is a fair and honest opinion.

[Jess]

I guess I am, I didn't realize it was turning to a debate. >_>

[Camazotz]

My parents did it when I was a kid, they probably still do it if they can, and I do it when the situation arises. Things like movie tickets or hotel rooms are already overpriced, so I don't feel guilty about saving a few extra dollars. Particularly at a movie theater, I still take up one seat, and I don't feel $8 to see a movie I can watch on the internet for free is worth it.

I am more than willing to lie to an organization that benefits from my money to save some money. Plus I don't see lying as a big deal either, if it's not hurting anyone. Businesses make their money from gathering lots of customers, and if I'm still contributing to their source of income, why should I feel guilty?

[Awesome]

Fine by me. Ain't going to hurt to lie.