america.revolutionary

[kermit]

I'm not pesimistic, I'm an anarchist when it comes to corperate america and the corrupt global community.

[mRojas2000]

i just edited my post... re read it!

[Bobby]

I'm not pesimistic, I'm an anarchist when it comes to corperate america and the corrupt global community.

YOur being a pecimist for two reasons
1) Your saying I wish i could blow up america. the place you live. Not exactly positive.

2) YOur saying the world needs to lose half of the population. that gives a 50% of your family living... a 50% chance of everyone you know living.

[kermit]

Whats wrong with death, you were born to die my friend, and there is not a god damned thing you can do about it. I came into this world, poverty stricken, raised on the streets of Dallas, family living off welfare, government don't give a fuck. Welfare, its a system to keep you poor instead of helping you get out of it. Revolutionary, anti-america. Fuck america, got my family in and out of jail on some bullshit, inslaving the people, got children starving on the streets, and you sit there waving its flag and shouting its name as if its some glorious thing? NAH!, I'm a self proclaimed anarchist my man, I'm quite tired of this opresser opressed society. So yeah, I think death is the answer, make some time changes and whipe out these useless, opresser dumbfucks that think they are above the laws of the people. FUCK your law of the land. I represent the law of the people. The poor, the underprivilaged. And if you havent been there, then consider yoruself a lucky son of a bitch. But if I have to join my brothers and shot a man for freedom, fuck the police and the opresser army, I'm fighting for freedom.

[Bobby]

I'm not even going to respond to that.

[kermit]

Asides the fact that you did respond, why not argue it? Can you not? Can you go about saying that children arent starving and suffering on the streets of americas cities? That its hard working people are opressed and in jail on bullshit charges? That a revolution needs to fix this country? That people got to be sacrificed? The police are corrupt? the government is corrupt? What the fuck can you argue, I speak the truth and you sit there being arrogant.

[Bobby]

You act like I'm stupid just because I'm not living in a position where there is a money shortage. You have no right to call me arrogant. I do realize that people are living in poverty. I do realize all of those things you said. For the most part in the U.S. It's not the governments fault. It's bad choices people make.

[mRojas2000]

yes, we live to then die... but we live also to enjoy... to have knoledge... to have choices, a destiny, and be happy, not to suicide yourself only because you didnt have a deserved childhood... i also had a childhood of poorness, hate and almost without love, but i knew it wasnt my fault. thats why i kept on moving, and helping, and now im a better teen, that doesnt look bad, and always try to look on the bright side of most things... excluding this thread!!

sorry for double post, but i have to say something to diego... i dont agree with you... most people is poor because of the government... think about this:
people immigrate from africa... why?? because they are poor... why?? because of the government...

edit: merged double post koler

[kolte]

topic moved, off topic, continue discussion like normal

[Bobby]

Miguel I said that referrring to the U.S.

[kermit]

Yeah, well you don't know, you don't understand. You know how many poeople are in poverty in the USA? In 2004 about 13 million CHILDREN lived in poverty, thats about 18 percent of all children living in poverty. Not pretty eh? I'm sure its those childrens own fault though right? Poverty amongst children in the united states is close to 2 somtimes 3 times more promenint then in other westernized countries. Every 43 seconds another child is born into poverty in the united states, thats a little ove 2000 children a year born into a family that cannot support them. An american child is born without health insurence every 60 seconds, and 90% of children born without health insurence are born into working families, There are about 37 million americans living in poverty right now, thats about one in eight americans. Since 2000 seven million more people fell under the poverty line, bringing the average to 12.7 percent of our nation. Most americans agree that for a family of four, it takes about 40 thousand dollars a year to adaquatly feed, cloth and house the family. In 2002 the official federal poverty threshold was $18,850 for a family of four. About 40% of all americans living in poverty are raised in the inner city, the rest living in the suburbs or country. Nearly 40% of America's poor over the age of 16 worked either part-time or full-time in 2001, yet could not earn enough to secure even the basic necessities of life. Three out of four children in poverty lived with a family member who worked at least part time. And one out of every three children in poverty lived with someone who worked full-time, year round. A single parent of two young children working full-time in a minimum wage job for a year would make $10,712 before taxes - more than $4,300 below the poverty line. According to the Children's Defense Fund, for every year that 14.5 million American children continue to experience poverty, their lifetime contribution to the economy will decline by an estimated $130 billion because poor children grow up to be less educated and often less productive workers. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it. There is a problem, that needs to be adressed. I could strike with an endless array of stitistics and truths. Try me, education, poverty, political corruption, You don't think there needs to be a revolution, but you don't even know how horrible it is.

[mRojas2000]

ok... in all those facts, you are right, and you are right, its all governments fault, all bush fault... have you ever imagined how much money he spents JUST in iraq's war?? alot, so much i dont even remember. but that doesnt explains why you said you wanted to kill yourself, and why you said you wanted a k45 and a million people to make a war against america... its just stupid, because first, you are not doing anything, second, you are not going to win, third you are making a civil war, and last but not least, its just suicide... i just started talking about puberty to make an example, that simple...

[kermit]

There are about 1.4 million people in the United States military. An extra 850,000+ that are not active. There are, personally estimated, a few million police officers and militent style workers in the United States, plus members of the national guards, varried number by state. There are 37 million people under the poverty line. There are 200 million+ people that are lower middle class and lower class. So you know what, though you think that it would be suicide, or stupid, its totally possible that enough people are tired of America, Bush, being opressed. In fact, I would say at least 10% of the United States agree with me when I say there needs to be a revolution. Fuck you, just because you are happy living in a corrupt evil country doesnt mean the rest of us are happy about it. There will be a revolution, mark my words, soon.

edit: and it cost the united states upwards of 250 billion dollars for the war in Iraq. The uniteds states pulls in close to 12 trillion dollars a year and we have a debt of 8 trillion+

[mRojas2000]

first you dont have to offend me... second, i dont live in america... third... stop making stupid facs about america... fourth, i also hate bush, but im not like you, saying i hate america and burning flags...

[LIsailer19]

america is not 8 trill in debt, 485 bill. everything your bitching about can be traced back to george bush. and stop acting like its every american citizen's fault for your misfortune. 12% live below the poverty line in the United States. but thats much better than 80% in haiti, or 86% in Zambia. you want to live above the poverty line? try finding one of the few countires in the world that have a poverty line of less than 12%. FYI, there are only 11, and most of those are 3rd world countries anyway. 11 out of 272 countries have a better poverty rate than the US. why dont you tell me which one of those 11 you would rather live in than the US? i'll even give you the list of poverty rates in every country on earth :http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2046.html.

The united states is not corrupt. George Bush, Dick Cheney, Condelizza Rice, John Ashcroft, John Roberts, etc..., they are corrupt. dont think just because the goverment sucks ass it means every citizen thinks the same way they do. i hate the government. but i would never burn a flag. i'm proud to be an american. and this "revolution" is bull shit, what the hell do you think is going to change anyway? you think if there is a revolution that suddenly you'll be rich, no one will be in povery, and bush will be dead? why dont you tell me what a revolution is going to accomplish? and dont make up facts in your anwser.

[kermit]

Fuck you I don't make up facts. Name a fact I 'made up' and I'll give you a million dollars. I'm not yelling at people because of my misfortune, last time I looked I was complaining about the 13 million children, 23 million adults, and an estimated 150 million others living in poverty or close to it. There are what, graciously 300 million americans with that many million suffering while you sleep compertable at night you asshole. You don't think were 8 trillion dollars in debt, lord your ignorant about this conversation, look it up why don't you.

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm
http://www.fedinvest.gov/opd/opd.htm
http://www.toptips.com/debtclock.html

There is no brewing revolution?

http://www.vexen.co.uk/USA/hateamerica.html
http://www.robpongi.com/pages/comboFUCKINGUSAHI.html
http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/anti_america/
http://www.moveamericaforward.org/
http://www.whywehatebush.com/
http://www.bushflash.com/

The United States is not corrupt?

http://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/corruptreport.pdf
http://www.mapinc.org/corrupt.htm
http://ezinearticles.com/?The-United-States-Government-is-Corrupt,-Just-Look-at-Watergate&type=sv&id=186905
http://www.brook.edu/comm/events/20040428.htm
http://www.hobotraveler.com/co5unitedstatesofamericacorruption.php

There are no babies starving on the fucking streets? Eh? Fuck you for that. I'm not going to some other country, nah, I'm staying to help my brothers and sisters suffering in America. Land of the free and home of the brave my ass. There are more cowards ands biggots here then anywere else in the world.

What about education? What about small business? I'm not saying a revolution is gonna make me rich. But we have an obligation as americans to keep the power in the hands of the people. We have an obligation to help our brothers and sisters in the war. And not the war in Iraq. The war in america.

What happens when global warming whips you out? Do you honestly think your government will be able to help you then? If China and Russia invaded america tomarrow, I would rejoice! The United States calls North Korea 'rouge' but no, its the other way around. The USA is the rouge, vile abomination upon this planet.

You say I'm crazy, but what about the police, opressing the poor. What about the minimum wage my whole fucking neighborhood is scrapping in? What about the welfare keeping my city poor? Welfare should be helping educate people in trades, not giving them food. There are 13 million kids out there they are gonna have shit high school educations and thats it. They aint going to no college, there going out to work at Micky Dees and Walmart. To feed a bunch of fat ass dirty rich bastards keeping this god forsaken country afloat.

You support this bullshit? This awful country? This rouge nation? This abomination? Your god damned right your an enemy then.

[Bobby]

Yes. I do. I don't support Bush. but I do support this country.

[kolte]

Calm down for the love of Jesus. Kermit as your friend, I must advise you to be a bit less hostile. Your right, there needs to be a revolution, and there needs to be some changes, but we must be nice and well tempered if anyone is going to take us seriously. If we just bombard our fellow members with wild acusations about corruption and such, then nobody is going to be on your side.

Kermit is right, in some instances. I love america though, personally. The people and the places, teeming with life and a carefree happiness not witnessed in many other countries. The government works well enough that most of us don't have to think about it, we can just go on living our lives and enjoying our time. Which in comparision to other countries is ample.

I dislike this government which is an opressing, corrupt horrid thing. I'm a revolutionary as well, and have been personally working with people like kermit and his family to make changes. Should the time come were there is a full scale war, then I will do everything in my power to serve the "people" of america, not the country, which I dispise.

In order to fully understand the real struggles of america, you have to understand the vast number of people sharing Kermit and I's opinion. 37 million people are in poverty, with about 100 million near it. Thats allot, about 50% of the united states, living in well....disturbing conditions. There is something that needs to be done, which is of course, why I have chosen to go into polotics at the University of Texas.

Some people need to enter the back door with a gun and a prayer, others tend to fix things thew the front with a suite and a tie (more to my favour)

[LIsailer19]

Fuck you I don't make up facts. Name a fact I 'made up' and I'll give you a million dollars. I'm not yelling at people because of my misfortune, last time I looked I was complaining about the 13 million children, 23 million adults, and an estimated 150 million others living in poverty or close to it. There are what, graciously 300 million americans with that many million suffering while you sleep compertable at night you asshole. You don't think were 8 trillion dollars in debt, lord your ignorant about this conversation, look it up why don't you.

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm
http://www.fedinvest.gov/opd/opd.htm
http://www.toptips.com/debtclock.html

There is no brewing revolution?

http://www.vexen.co.uk/USA/hateamerica.html
http://www.robpongi.com/pages/comboFUCKINGUSAHI.html
http://www.angelfire.com/weird2/anti_america/
http://www.moveamericaforward.org/
http://www.whywehatebush.com/
http://www.bushflash.com/

The United States is not corrupt?

http://www.corporatecrimereporter.com/corruptreport.pdf
http://www.mapinc.org/corrupt.htm
http://ezinearticles.com/?The-United-States-Government-is-Corrupt,-Just-Look-at-Watergate&type=sv&id=186905
http://www.brook.edu/comm/events/20040428.htm
http://www.hobotraveler.com/co5unitedstatesofamericacorruption.php

There are no babies starving on the fucking streets? Eh? Fuck you for that. I'm not going to some other country, nah, I'm staying to help my brothers and sisters suffering in America. Land of the free and home of the brave my ass. There are more cowards ands biggots here then anywere else in the world.

What about education? What about small business? I'm not saying a revolution is gonna make me rich. But we have an obligation as americans to keep the power in the hands of the people. We have an obligation to help our brothers and sisters in the war. And not the war in Iraq. The war in america.

What happens when global warming whips you out? Do you honestly think your government will be able to help you then? If China and Russia invaded america tomarrow, I would rejoice! The United States calls North Korea 'rouge' but no, its the other way around. The USA is the rouge, vile abomination upon this planet.

You say I'm crazy, but what about the police, opressing the poor. What about the minimum wage my whole fucking neighborhood is scrapping in? What about the welfare keeping my city poor? Welfare should be helping educate people in trades, not giving them food. There are 13 million kids out there they are gonna have shit high school educations and thats it. They aint going to no college, there going out to work at Micky Dees and Walmart. To feed a bunch of fat ass dirty rich bastards keeping this god forsaken country afloat.

You support this bullshit? This awful country? This rouge nation? This abomination? Your god damned right your an enemy then.


okay, first of all you dumbass, your a hypocrite. you say you hate america but when i say tell me another country you would live in, you cant respond to that question. second, dont offend me or my intelligence. third, if i support the US, then i'm your enemy, not an enemy of the us. fourth, you still havent told me what a revolution would acomplish. fifth, police brutality upon the poor is needed in some cases. look what happened after katrina, all poor people looting. killing. police opression was the only thing that stopped it. the police need to be brutal with the poor because the poor are desprate and dangerous. sixth, your'e so stupid, if you dont like that there are so many people in debt, then why dont you do something about it instead of going to bed everynight hoping that the goverment will show up on your doorstep the next morning with fifty grand. i just dont undersand your way of thinking. how the fuck would war and death solve poverty and opression? where did you say you were from? dallas? oh thats right, most of the entire city of dallas voted for bush. i would bet money that your parents voted for that asshole who doesnt give a damn about your situation. this is what i hate about the entire midwest, every state there went the way of bush, and now none of the people there understand why their lives suck. fucking arrogant. i live in New York, which happens to be a very liberal (and very rich) city. unlike the NYC, the midwest has just poorness and poverty all over. well in case you havent noticed the government doesnt give a damn about anyone's situation. a message to the midwest: ITS YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT that you vote for someone who is going to take the money that should be supporting the citizens, and what does he do, he spends it on a WAR! a stupid and pointless war..... this is the country of oppurtunity, no matter what your situation, a child can be the poorest person on earth, but in the US you can go to school and do well and get a job and make money and have a life. but no, most people are just lazy and expect the government to bail them out. well ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. not today, not tommorrow, not the next day. stop blaming america for YOUR problems. I'm proud to be an american, i hate the people here, but i love the country.

[kolte]

Lisailer19:

Being the moderator of the particular debate forum I feel obligated to set things straight here.


“you still haven't told me what a revolution would accomplish”

You wanted to know what a revolution would accomplish? Well, I will tell you. You see, there comes a time when Revolutions are necessary. Otherwise the American Revolution would not have freed the 13 original colonies from British tyrannical rule. The Civil War wouldn't have put the South in its rightful place and freed the slaves and the Civil Rights Revolution of the 50's, 60's and 70's wouldn't have allowed equal opportunities for both blacks, whites, men, and women. So surly you can agree that at least at some points revolutions are necessary.
In the case of the current need for a revolution, we face a tyrannical theocracy compromising The Republican Party, and parts of The Democratic Party in congress. We have a highly corrupt Executive Administration that has put the United States in danger globally many times. The theocratic congress coupled with the irrational and violent Executive Administration has led to national dept exceeding eight trillion dollars and has drained our recourses in a war that the majority of Americans do not want to be in.
There are, as pointed out by my friend Kermit, 37 million people living in poverty, 13 million of which are children. There is strain on things such as social security, welfare, and education, and corporations are forcing us even deeper into poverty because they offer such easily acquired pay checks, even though its at 7 dollars an hour, to our lower class.
But these pay checks are deceiving. The more people work at Wal-Mart's, Mc-Donald's, and Burger King's, the more people are making minimum wage, modern day slave conditions, living under the poverty line etc. And then you must factor in the fact that the majority of these cooperations are using overseas foreign labor instead of labor at home because of how cheap it is. Thus less jobs, more poverty. But at least we have our Wal-Mart quality shit right?
A revolt. Aims at dismantlement this corrupt government, these greedy corporations, these theocratic congressmen. It aims at reorganizing educational system, welfare systems etc, and putting the power of the government back in the the hands of the people were it belongs.
No, these souls are not going to become overnight millionaires. But perhaps threw the work of SOMBODY, something will get accomplished. At least we have joined a force to do something, and are not just sitting around saying how much we hate Bush.

“police brutality upon the poor is needed in some cases. look what happened after Katrina, all poor people looting. killing. police oppression was the only thing that stopped it. the police need to be brutal with the poor because the poor are desperate and dangerous”

Surly you don't really mean that. Oppression, brutality, and corruption is not the answer. Instead of shooting unarmed people dying in the streets of there now wasteland home, we should have been getting them out of there, and into houses and jobs. That was a very offensive comment I hope you didn't mean it.

“if you don't like that there are so many people in debt, then why don't you do something about it instead of going to bed every night hoping that the government will show up on your doorstep the next morning with fifty grand”

Well thats the great thing. Kermit and I, along with MANY other people and Austin are rising together to do something. We are helping campaign and open peoples eyes. We are doing something to make a difference. We are members of the modern revolution. We don't expect anything from the government, just as they have never expected anything from us.

“i just don't understand your way of thinking. how the fuck would war and death solve poverty and oppression?”

War and death solved Oppression and brutality during the American Revolution, the Civil War, and countless other situations. I wish that we could do it another way, I do. But it is becoming ever apparent that we won't be able to. The United States inst just going to let us take power back to the people, we have to fight for it. We're the real patriotic people here.

“where did you say you were from? Dallas? oh thats right, most of the entire city of Dallas voted for bush. i would bet money that your parents voted for that asshole who doesn't give a damn about your situation. this is what i hate about the entire Midwest, every state there went the way of bush, and now none of the people there understand why their lives suck. fucking arrogant. i live in New York, which happens to be a very liberal (and very rich) city. unlike the NYC, the Midwest has just poorness and poverty all over”

Well I never. How dare you, you call Kermit arrogant when you just insulted the entire Mid West like were some kind of poor underclass made for your entertainment. Not in my fucking Debate Forum and not again do you understand me? Good. You will be happy to know that Kermit's parents did not vote for bush, nor did mine, nor did any of our neighborhoods for who would be so foolish. Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, are all predominantly Republican towns, but how can you go about judging all of us when you have no idea who we are. I, nor anyone in my family, neighborhood, or class is republican. Kermit neither. Your a very arrogant and foolish little boy.

“well in case you haven't noticed the government doesn't give a damn about anyone's situation. a message to the Midwest: ITS YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT that you vote for someone who is going to take the money that should be supporting the citizens, and what does he do, he spends it on a WAR! a stupid and pointless war”

Like I said, we didn't personally vote for Bush. Thats very stereotypical of you. Kermit doest support Bush, so why argue about it? Is it because you cant actually argue what he says? Because its true.

“this is the country of opportunity, no matter what your situation, a child can be the poorest person on earth, but in the US you can go to school and do well and get a job and make money and have a life. but no, most people are just lazy and expect the government to bail them out.”

Unless of course you are forced to drop out to help support your family, not because you are stupid but starving. Thats what Kermit's older brother had to do, are you saying he made a mistake, that he should have starved, or stolen instead of getting a job to help his mother? I couldn't ask somebody to do that, nor could I have said I would have done differently.

Kermit

Your Hostility is unacceptable, calm down and stop being so rude, that goes for the both of you.

[LIsailer19]

I apologize for being offencive, steryotipical, and rude. I didnt mean to offend anyone personally but i was trying to get a point across. While i stand by some of the things i said, i want to make the point i dont hate the midwest. I just hate it when people there vote for bush, and then cant understand why things are the way they are. I wasnt calling kermit arrogant, i was calling bush supporters from the midwest arrogant. My comment about police brutallity i still somewhat stand by. While i agree that in most cases it isnt the anwser, in some cases (such as katrina) it was needed. I'm sorry that offended you though. Bottom line of my point is, and i think you may agree with me koler,.... it is time for a change, but while we know we wont wake up tommorrow with all the bush administrations problems solved, the majority of people in this country need to stop being so damn lazy and try to do something for themselves. (and please dont take that comment to heart, i'm making a generalization).

Again i apologize for my extreme comments, i didnt mean to offend anyone personally. Just trying to make a point.

[kermit]

I'm sorry too, I don't mean to get worked up about it, but its somthing I'm really involved in right now, Its a large part of my life.