abortion

[rushina]

How can some people approve of abortion yet disapprove of capital punishment?
How can a person approve of abortion, which is the death of innocent human life, yet be against capital punishment, which is the execution of guilty humans who have murdered people. It doesn't make sense! How can people be "humane" by disapproving capital punishment but still believe in abortion?
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[Mr. Smithers]

Don't know. Abortion is a totally different issue than the death penalty. I guess people have their reasons for supporting abortion, same as people not supporting the death penalty.

[whatyoudontknow]

Abortion isn't killing since the fetus isn't self-aware or a person yet.

[nick]

I dont approve of capital punishment in any circumstances. Its barbaric and uncivilised. I also dont approve of abortion except in the most extreme cases, too many people use it as if its the same as contraception and that's wrong to me. Both are taking a life to my way of thinking.

[Obscene Eyedeas]

I do not believe in abortion in any circumstance. even if i conceived by someone where i had no choice i would still keep it. abortion i believe is not the answer there is always adoption. capital punishment is different it's someone who has committed a crime deemed punishable by death i am split in my opinion on this on whether it is necessary or not but i definitely don't support it

[ray8806]

I think abortion is completely and utterly wrong. I mean, you are murdering a person. Not letting them live their life and have a job, get married, have kids, etc. To me, it is murder.

If you didn't want the baby, you shouldn't have had sex in the first place. Like someone above me said, adoption is an option. Someone will love and support that kid if you don't.

[Peace God]

Well a fetus isn't born yet and also not everyone will be adopted by a family.
Once the fetus passes a certain stage i think an abortion is kinda wrong but it still isnt born yet and is still part of the woman's body so she should have the right to choose if she wants it aborted or not.

I'm against capital punishment but if i was in jail for life i would wanna die anyway...just sayin.

[magikarpy]

Don't we already have an abortion thread?

It takes weird twisted logic to think that a baby doesn't count as a baby a few months before it is a baby. I usually believe to each his own but when people are committing murder because they don't like there morning sickness? No.

[Peace God]

I usually believe to each his own but when people are committing murder because they don't like there morning sickness,
An abortion is one of the hardest decisions a person can make...im sure it's slightly more complicated than not being able to deal with morning sickness.

[magikarpy]

An abortion is one of the hardest decisions a person can make...im sure it's slightly more complicated than not being able to deal with morning sickness.

It happens more then you would think. People have a way of justifying everything they do.

[Malcolm Tucker]

Well abortion isn't necessarily taking a humans' life, it's not considered human life as the foetus isn't considered human life.

Either way, I support both capitol punishment, and abortion.

[magikarpy]

Well abortion isn't necessarily taking a humans' life, it's not considered human life as the foetus isn't considered human life.

Either way, I support both capitol punishment, and abortion.

I know the sciences of it all. But I can't wrap my head around the fact that a few months before it is a human it isn't human.

[Disco Jones]

I know the sciences of it all. But I can't wrap my head around the fact that a few months before it is a human it isn't human.

Think about what you just said. A few months before it is a human, it isn't a human. I can't wrap my head around the fact that a few months before a cow is a burger, it isn't a burger.

Rushina, people who support abortion do not think of fetuses the same way you do. It is not considered murder from that viewpoint because the fetus is not considered a human or even a living thing. You may disagree, but it is important to understand that from that perspective, they do not support murder because they do not think it is murder.

[deadpie]

death of innocent human life


http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/thesmokinggun.com/graphics/packageart/mugshots/johnwaynegacymug1.jpg


> Implying John Wayne Gacy as an innocent human life form.

[Perseus]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/thesmokinggun.com/graphics/packageart/mugshots/johnwaynegacymug1.jpg


>John Wayne Gacy as an innocent human life form.

John Wayne Gacy isn't innocent. They found dead bodies in his house.

[deadpie]

John Wayne Gacy isn't innocent. They found dead bodies in his house.

Idiot I was being sarcastic.

[Perseus]

Idiot I was being sarcastic.

Hurr durr.

[INFERNO]

I support abortion although I'm not as big of a fan of it when the mother gets countless abortions as a result of failure to use proper protection.

Well abortion isn't necessarily taking a humans' life, it's not considered human life as the foetus isn't considered human life.

Either way, I support both capitol punishment, and abortion.

This argument I've never understood. If it's not considered a human, what form of life is it considered as? Also, why isn't it human life?

I know the sciences of it all.

Someone isn't being honest here. The science of fetal development is an incredibly complex subject that numerous scientists who spend their life devoted to it don't fully understand, so I think it's safe to say you don't know the sciences of it all. You may know some of it but saying you know all of it implies you know more than all the scientists in the world and you know the answers to all the unanswered questions.

But I can't wrap my head around the fact that a few months before it is a human it isn't human.

:confused: Before it's human, it's not human. Well yes, that's what it meant "before it is human". Hence, you admit to not understanding the fact that before something is X, it's not X... . Makes no sense.

[aleexax3]

abortion is not righttt

[deadpie]

abortion is not righttt

I see you're really good at explaining why you think abortion isn't righttttt

[magikarpy]

I know when I'm fighting a losing battle here. I just personally think that if you're preventing a fetus from becoming a baby. It's just as bad as murder if not worse. Because a fetus had more life left in it then say, if you killed a 40 year old man. Just my personal opinion.

[Leprachaun]

I kinda find this funny because I frown upon abortion but I'm pretty much thumbs up for the death penalty.

[deadpie]

Kill fetus's before they become serial killers, rapists, murderers, criminals, druggies, and suicidal bombers.

[magikarpy]

Kill fetus's before they become serial killers, rapists, murderers, criminals, druggies, and suicidal bombers.

Or presidents, elementrary school teachers, speed metal musicians, and great artists.

[deadpie]

Or presidents, elementrary school teachers, speed metal musicians, and great artists.

Or presidents that drop bombs on the world, teachers that sexually abuse their students, musicians that get drugged up and kill themselves............

[INFERNO]

I know when I'm fighting a losing battle here. I just personally think that if you're preventing a fetus from becoming a baby. It's just as bad as murder if not worse. Because a fetus had more life left in it then say, if you killed a 40 year old man. Just my personal opinion.

True, the fetus has a longer future ahead of it as a baby, no question there. However, when in situations where the mother either cannot continue pregnancy due to a complication, then one death is better than two deaths. But excluding those situations, if the mother (and father) don't want or cannot properly take care of the child due to insufficient funds for themselves to begin with, then you're at a dilemma: allow the parents to have a chance to gain more wealth and property to be used to care for a future baby or have them continue with the pregnancy to give it away. As you mentioned, the fetus and baby will have a longer time to live than an adult but consider this, will the beginning of that life be better spent in a foster facility or with poor parents or parents who don't want the child? Answers to all three are they're all awful so the abortion isn't merely to dispose of the fetus, it can be to allow the parent(s) to be in a better situation without it.

Kill fetus's before they become serial killers, rapists, murderers, criminals, druggies, and suicidal bombers.

Great argument, assume it's a 50% chance they'll be "bad", there's a 50% chance they'll be "good". This is of course in light of you not joking or being sarcastic about your argument.

[magikarpy]

Or presidents that drop bombs on the world, teachers that sexually abuse their students, musicians that get drugged up and kill themselves............

How negative of you....
Alright. Let's exterminate the human race.

[Amnesiac]

Sometimes, abortion is necessary. It's a harsh reality, but in this dysfunctional world of ours sometimes these kind of actions need to be taken. I am pro-choice but I don't encourage abortion, it isn't something to be used carelessly. It's an alternative for people who have nowhere else to go.

The death penalty I am opposed to, since it's not the responsibility of government to "get revenge" for murders and other felonies like that. The only other nations that practice capital punishment are countries we ourselves aren't very fond of. If Europe, Canada and Australia can get along fine without executions, why can't we? It's much more difficult being locked in a cell 23 hours a day anyway.

[deadpie]

How negative of you....
Alright. Let's exterminate the human race.

That's pretty much my dream.

[dead]

How negative of you....
Alright. Let's exterminate the human race.

That makes allot of sense when the world is over populated at the moment.
At this point its not a big deal if we lose people as long as we don't fuck up the world.

[Peace God]

That makes allot of sense when the world is over populated at the moment.
At this point its not a big deal if we lose people as long as we don't fuck up the world.
are you willing to give your life for the cause?

[dead]

are you willing to give your life for the cause?

In the end all that is needed is the growth of society. Plus i'm already out and alive, so no, but my answer would be yes if it was before I was out in the world today.

[Disco Jones]

But you're a fertile young individual, RR. To take you would be to take any future children you may have as well!

[dead]

But you're a fertile young individual, RR. To take you would be to take any future children you may have as well!

This is quite obvious and anyways I planned on not having my own children, but instead adopting.

[magikarpy]

This is quite obvious and anyways I planned on not having my own children, but instead adopting.

Me too!! I want to adopt a little asian girl.

[Asylum]

the only time i'd think abortion is acceptable is if a person was raped. i would never abort, even if i was raped, but i'd understand if a person was raped and had their baby aborted, however i'd encourage adoption as an option. because people who are raped are scared... just think of it... teenage pregnancys are frowned upon you see a teen ager pregnant you automatically think wrong of them, you dont' think.. hmm they could've been raped, their reputation as well as their rest of their teen age life is ruined because instead of forming relationships with people you now have to take care of a baby and work. and if the baby looks like the rapest its going to hurt the mom. it'll hurt the mom too if it dones' t look like the rapist, because she'll remeber every time she sees it what happened. and she probably wouldn't treat her kids the same... or she might get depressed suicidal, or self harm because of it, or treat the kid bad and abuse it which would lead the kid to depression, suicide, or self harm, so adoption is better then keeping it if raped... hwoever if you hoenstly can't risk repuation or like dont' want to have a kid at all and are raped i'd understand if they aborted, but i wouldn't ever abort
because abortion also has consquinces on the mom, guilt, always thinking hmm i wonder what my child would be like, they will remeber, they could become depresed, suicidal, or self harm because they feel bad for aborting it, and it is murder... it's living, and killing it is murder. you dont' want kids? then use birth control, i believe every child is a gift from God no matter how they come into this world,
as far as if it is amedical concern where the mom might die unless she gets an abortion, then i would understand, the catholic church agrees with this statement too.
but i'm not here to preach it's wrong my point of view, i'm not fighting for prolife
i'm more prochoice, however i encourage agasint abortion God gave us free will, i think anyone who is considering abortion should view both sides and decide, however Christians who disguse themselves as abortion clinics and say they are going to hell, i think that is wrong.. yu are makign it worse for them, and the emotional pain they are going through. i know i tend to contradict xp just trying to get beliefs accrss here.

i dont think men should decided wheater its not ok to abort, its a woman's thing as far as politics go. thye don't carry the child, and if a women is raped they dont deal with the emotional pain or reuined reputation so they wouldn't hav any idea what they are dealing with. they aren't involved and women have a right to their body, just like babies have a right to theirs, even though killing the baby wouldbe in violation to the babies rights. now you can say a baby can't feel anything... it reacts to pain it moves squirms, in the Bible John the Baptist leaped inside the womb when it sensed Jesus was near. Again, i'm not preching the Bible, i have a point... they can feel, no one can prove they can or can't of course, but it is alive non the less.. .

[Disco Jones]

How does that make sense? Why should the woman get abortion as a consolation prize for being raped? What makes the fetus from rape less of a gift from God, or less alive than a fetus from sex?

[Hollywood]

Okay, there is a difference between abortion and flat out murder. Abortion is killing an unborn, unknown creature, or, a fetus. Murder is killing someone that has already been given a shot at life, or, for instance, has a nice family and a good job.

Abortion is a choice the should be allowed to women, for multiple reasons:

1) If the child is unwanted, it can keep that child from living the life of an unwanted, un-cared for child, and instead, let the couple have a child when they are ready or married, therefore, raising a healthy and much happier child in a better environment.

2) If a woman is raped, do you really think she would want her rapist's child? To look at her child every day and see the face of a rapist? It should be her right as a woman and a human being to keep that life-long reminder of a horrible event from ever coming to the surface.

3) There are quite a few bastard fathers out there (including my own) who just run off and make Hell for their "lovers" by crashing their lives and getting them pregnant. If the woman simply has no time or money to take care of the bastard child of her ex-boyfreind, she should have the right to fix her ruined life before it was even ruined.

[Greggy]

There is also the female's life, if she's like, 14-18, HOPEFULLY, the girl is still in school. Would 9 months of being pregnant, everyone knowing, all of the stares, bullying, etc. Help the girl? I think not. Should a girl risk ruining her future, and raising a child in a corrupt future? You know the airplane saying "Make sure you are safe, before attending to your children." A baby could ruin this teenage girl's life, but in the end I guess it depends on the girl's point of view.

So am I for abortion? Not necessarily... It depends on the circumstances, and the AGE of the girl.

Capital Punishment?
Don't you think solitary confinement would be so much more worse than instant death?

[Fiending_the_freedom]

I'm not sure how I stand on capital punishment, but I don't mind that it is not allowed in Candada.

On abortion I am of course pro choice.

Earlier someone said but I am too lazy to go back and find and quote,
"I don't get how a few months before it is a human, it isn't a human"

Abortions are done within the first trimester unless health issues for the mother/baby are present.
It is NOT a few months.
I had an abortion myself, and on the ultra sound it was smaller than a pea, so yes It isn't a human.

There is a reason we don't jail woman who have miscarages, because it is NOT murder.

Abortion is legal for a reason, it is nessacary, and its not like we already haven't over populated the world.
Mothers killing their young isn't even that weird if you think of us like we do animals.

My friends sister is 7 months pregnant right now and as bad as it sounds I wish she would have gotten rid of it, because now she is hurting it so bad by still smoking, doing cocain and drinking, so YES abortion is legal for a reason, now that baby is going to most likley have seriouse health problems.

[Wtficus]

it's her kid. not yours.

[MysticalBurrito]

It's not her kid. It takes two to have sex and the man should be/is fucking mature enough to accept they both made a mistake and try to point her in the right direction. Not leave her because he wants a fuck buddy. That's not a man.

When someone get's a abortion they're killing a alive human being. Just because it isn't you, think about how the baby will never know what a sunsets like or the sound a peaceful morning. But they won't and never will because some people thought "Hey I screwed up. No condom, no protection, drinking. Oh well there's a PlannedParenthood down the street!"


Some centers also offer an intra-amniotic injection of the drug digoxin, which stop heart activity in the fetus before a second-trimester abortion.

http://www.michaelclancy.com/main_.jpg

Does that show enough? They ARE alive, they DO feel the pain,their heart is beating just as ours and God doesn't create a baby to be thrown in a dumpster in the back of a alley. Hell, murders get a better burial. What did the babies do to deserve abortion? Nothing.

[INFERNO]

It's not her kid. It takes two to have sex and the man should be/is fucking mature enough to accept they both made a mistake and try to point her in the right direction. Not leave her because he wants a fuck buddy. That's not a man.

When someone get's a abortion they're killing a alive human being. Just because it isn't you, think about how the baby will never know what a sunsets like or the sound a peaceful morning. But they won't and never will because some people thought "Hey I screwed up. No condom, no protection, drinking. Oh well there's a PlannedParenthood down the street!"




http://www.michaelclancy.com/main_.jpg

Does that show enough? They ARE alive, they DO feel the pain,their heart is beating just as ours and God doesn't create a baby to be thrown in a dumpster in the back of a alley. Hell, murders get a better burial. What did the babies do to deserve abortion? Nothing.

Debating with graphic pictures? Pretty weak. Your picture aside, do you know what god wants? Unless you somehow are god or somehow know everything there is to know, then you don't.

Babies may have done nothing to deserve an abortion but if the parents aren't fit, aren't in a fitting context or have absolutely no desire, then I see no reason why an abortion cannot be allowed. Sure some people have one-night stands, get drunk and screw but that's hardly a reason for going against abortion as the argument is if you do something without thinking, you must live with the consequences for as long as they last but if you do something while thinking, no problem you don't need to live the consequences as long as they last.

I agree, the man shouldn't leave just because the female is pregnant or because he wants to go elsewhere, he should provide some support, caring and help think of what to do. Him being absent though is irrelevant to the debate. Him being present is relevant only if he disagrees with having an abortion.

[Fiending_the_freedom]

It's not always as simple as two people drinking and not using protection.

[2D]

Does that show enough? They ARE alive, they DO feel the pain,their heart is beating just as ours

movement ≠ living person

God doesn't create a baby to be thrown in a dumpster in the back of a alley.

God didn't create anything.

[georgiamay]

ok, this is just my opinion, but if a women does not feel ready to have a baby, i see no reason why she shouldn't have an abortion. if she thinks she can't raise the baby, then how would it be fair to bring a child into this world if it's mother looks isn't even able to look after it? what if the women is actually just a girl, like a sixteen year old girl? should she forget about her life and go off and raise a child because of one stupid mistake?

It has been proven that in the time scale that abortions are legally allowed to to take place, the fetus has not even developed a nervous system or a brain yet. it has not feeling, and doesn't even know it is alive. Once it has a nervous system, it feels pain.

If a women gets raped, should she be bring a RAPIST'S BABY into the world? she'd be carrying a non stop reminder of a traumatic experience, as if she isnt already traumatised enough :/

i see no problem with abortion of the mother HONESTLY cannot bring up a child.

it's her body, she can do what she wants. The fetus doesn't even have a brain yet when women get abortions.

[Wtficus]

Oh yeah, to add, it's the person who decided to have un protected sex.

"oh I was drunk"

oh I wonder who decided to get drunk.

Abortion is a choice, if you don't like it well thats your choice. But don't let it screw with your life. Some people aren't ready for kids, and it's hard to give a child to strangers after holding your own child.

[Sage]

When someone get's a abortion they're killing a alive human being. Just because it isn't you, think about how the baby will never know what a sunsets like or the sound a peaceful morning. But they won't and never will because some people thought "Hey I screwed up. No condom, no protection, drinking. Oh well there's a PlannedParenthood down the street!"
You know you can come off as a real self-righteous jerk when you make the generalization that the only people who get abortions are irresponsible and amoral.

God doesn't create a baby to be thrown in a dumpster in the back of a alley.
Are you sure about that? (http://www.evilbible.com/god's%20not%20pro-life.htm)

[Dive to Survive]

Are you sure about that? (http://www.evilbible.com/god's%20not%20pro-life.htm)

wat does tht prove? nothing just some guy posting wat he thinks. you never win an arguement by insulting others.

[2D]

wat does tht prove? nothing just some guy posting wat he thinks. you never win an arguement by insulting others.

The Bible is God's Word no?

God is then saying directly in the Bible that the killing of unborn babies is okay because he commanded people to do it. That wasn't insulting either, you're grasping at straws now.

[Perseus]

The Bible is God's Word no?

God is then saying directly in the Bible that the killing of unborn babies is okay because he commanded people to do it. That wasn't insulting either, you're grasping at straws now.

Well, the poster guy saying "retarded Christians" is offensive; I think that's what he's talking about.

[2D]

Well, the poster guy saying "retarded Christians" is offensive; I think that's what he's talking about.

The way something is delivered doesn't discredit it.

[Jenna.]

I'm pro choice and I'm also for capital punishment.

[Peace God]

wat does tht prove? nothing just some guy posting wat he thinks. you never win an arguement by insulting others.
agree that insults are stupid but that doesnt change the fact that according to the bible god is okay with killing babies...you seem to have missed that fact

[Dive to Survive]

agree that insults are stupid but that doesnt change the fact that according to the bible god is okay with killing babies...you seem to have missed that fact

i have not missed that. God may tell some people to do that but im pretty sure he doesnt tell that to everyone

[Peace God]

God may tell some people to do that
then its settled... abortion is ok

[Sage]

then its settled... abortion is ok

According to God, anyway.

[Dive to Survive]

I dont think it is but God may, in some cases

[Standard Stick]

why would a woman get an abortion when there are other options?
you are killing since the fetus is living

[Sage]

why would a woman get an abortion when there are other options?

Because the other options involve unwanted pregnancy and unwanted pregnancy sucks.

[xdeviancex]

Abortion is fine by me.
It's a disgusting and grotesque process, but it is more humane than letting a child grow up in inhospitable surroundings than just have the fetus killed before it even develops a consciousness.

[georgiamay]

Abortion is fine by me.
It's a disgusting and grotesque process, but it is more humane than letting a child grow up in inhospitable surroundings than just have the fetus killed before it even develops a consciousness.

i completely agree. the fetus doesn't even have a nervous system at the time it is aborted and doesn't even know it is alive. it's better off not being born than groing up with parents that never wanted it.

[Whisper]

i completely agree. the fetus doesn't even have a nervous system at the time it is aborted and doesn't even know it is alive. it's better off not being born than groing up with parents that never wanted it.

K i'm fine with pro choice in certain circumstances because i'm not in that womans position, I don't know what its like to be a pregnant teen, a rape victim with the assaulter's child growing inside you, etc....
But I don't agree with abortions being the norm, but i'll take a legal abortion over some dude with a rusty knife....


Now what you said is bullshit

First of all, I'd rather grow up in the system than not at all
No family's perfect, just because you don't grow up with BIOLOGICAL parents doesn't mean you can't be adopted by a loving family. Even if you aren't, even if you grow up in the system, that doesn't mean you can't make something of yourself, good friends can easily become family.

Second of all not all abortions are done very early on, there are allot done that DO feel it: http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=72549

I love how in some states like California you can legally abandon your child at a hospital, fire depot, etc... no questions asked
i LOVE that
That is FAR superior to abortion


http://www.ozpolitic.com/funny/photos/now-that-I'm-safe-I'm-pro-choice.jpg
LOL

[georgiamay]

K i'm fine with pro choice in certain circumstances because i'm not in that womans position, I don't know what its like to be a pregnant teen, a rape victim with the assaulter's child growing inside you, etc....
But I don't agree with abortions being the norm, but i'll take a legal abortion over some dude with a rusty knife....


Now what you said is bullshit

First of all, I'd rather grow up in the system than not at all
No family's perfect, just because you don't grow up with BIOLOGICAL parents doesn't mean you can't be adopted by a loving family. Even if you aren't, even if you grow up in the system, that doesn't mean you can't make something of yourself, good friends can easily become family.

Second of all not all abortions are done very early on, there are allot done that DO feel it: http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=72549

I love how in some states like California you can legally abandon your child at a hospital, fire depot, etc... no questions asked
i LOVE that
That is FAR superior to abortion


http://www.ozpolitic.com/funny/photos/now-that-I'm-safe-I'm-pro-choice.jpg
LOL

first of all, the is the EXCEPTION!!! and second of all, babies do not feel pain until they are 20 weeks old. so the only problem with your source, is that the baby was 22 weeks old. and the woman had waited until then to have the abortion. the chances of not knowing you were pregnant for 20 weeks is highly unlikely, because firstly they will have missed 4 or 5 periods, and the woman would possibly already be showing, plus all of the other pregnancy related symptoms like morning sickness. so a fetus does NOT feel pain until they are 20 weeks, so no, what i said was not bullshit, because even your own argument can be used against you, because if that infant was aborted at 22 weeks, then it would feel pain, and i know that is absolutely horrible, but normally, it would take a women less than 5 months to decide whether or not to have the pregnancy terminated, so really, almost all aborted babies do not feel pain.

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/294/8/947
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081004013930AAgZSEu