United Europe

[rEpReSsIoN.?]

Should there be a united europe?? I think the should do YOU?

[Bobby]

What do you mean by "United Europe" please explain

[serial-thrilla]

pretty self explainitory, and no i dont think that it should.

[Bobby]

Okay I get it. No.. I don't think Europe should be one country it would be massive.. I just don't think it would work.

[redcar]

a united Europe, we are currently on the road to having. think about it out of the countries in Europe 25 are members of the European Union. now the EU is an extremely powerful body. now at this stage about 60% of all laws come from the EU. also an EU law will always superceed (sp?) a national law. so whatever the EU says goes. also 12 countries have the same currency and come January 2007 i believe it is 10 more will join the Euro. so that will be 22 out of 25 EU countries.

with the EU there is no internal borders. you can move freely from country to country without the bother of any checkpoints, of course with air u still need your passport. also there is free movement of capital, goods and labour. no tarrifs. and at the moment they are plannning the introduction of the new EU constitution which will include harmonizing taxes europe wide.

oh we are well on the way to a United Europe, which even though has its good points, i dont want each country to loose their sense of independace and become a United States of Europe, or something similar, that would be sickening.

[jack12341234]

thats a good idea, but i don't ever think it will happen, one country will become power hungry and break out of it, sorry but its an unrealistic goal, its like a united asia

[redcar]

no country will break out of the EU, and there isnt any country that is really power hungry, but more have more power than others because of their size, i.e Germany and France. but there are measures to protect smaller countries, for example to pass the new constitution all countries must ratify it. otherwise its dead in the water.

[Bobby]

The truth is the smaller countries will not break because they will now have more sense of protection from the larger countries.

[LIsailer19]

oh we are well on the way to a United Europe, which even though has its good points, i dont want each country to loose their sense of independace and become a United States of Europe, or something similar, that would be sickening.

why would a euro US be sickening? as an american i take offence to that, unless you meant something else. :cool:


i dont think europe should unite. personally speaking, that would suck. i know this sounds like "jackass american" speaking, but if europe became one country, the united states wouldnt be nearly as powerful. that would cause a crumble in the united states's economy, power, etc. now i'm really going to sound like a jackass but i dont really care because this is what i really beleive, i love living in the most powerful (and in my opinion, greatest) nation on earth :usflag:... if europe joined, US would no longer have nearly as much attention, power, or money on a global scale.


i also think that there would be way too much confusion in terms of building up europe into one superpower. you would have people speaking french in one corner, norse in another, and a completly diversified society. now there is nothing worng with that, in fact i support it. the US is very diversifed also. but in america, diversifacation occurs all over, not just groups of people in their own niches. if europe formed, people with completly different beleifs, who dont even speak the same language, and live nowhere near each other, would call themselves members of the same country. it makes no sence.

alright i've said some of what i wanted to say, i could go on but i barely know where to start saying why i think its a bad idea.

-Brian :cool:

[redcar]

no country would break from the EU, its too much of an asset. if you break from it you are cutting yourself off from 24 other different markets, when it comes to business. but the reason for the EU isnt protection, its all about business and making trade and travel easier for everyone and develop economies. but not protection, if you mean as in military. the EU doesnt yet have a military or a policy for protecting other EU countries in that way.


why would a euro US be sickening? as an american i take offence to that, unless you meant something else.


because i am extremly patriotic to Ireland and love my country so much. the thoughts of it becoming a federal state just really sickens me. i want ireland to remain always a seperate country at all times, and never become a federal state.

[Bobby]

Ya... but you have to agree, being a "state" in the same country would give more room for national support. So, yes your right, my king. I guess protection wasn't the right word.

[Physicist]

It goes without saying that Europe being one giant, solely centrally governed city-state would be horrible. Different area's need different needs. But them all being united by the European Union but still being self goverened on the level of country, province, city, etc. is a great idea.

[serial-thrilla]

why would a euro US be sickening? as an american i take offence to that, unless you meant something else. :cool:


i dont think europe should unite. personally speaking, that would suck. i know this sounds like "jackass american" speaking, but if europe became one country, the united states wouldnt be nearly as powerful. that would cause a crumble in the united states's economy, power, etc. now i'm really going to sound like a jackass but i dont really care because this is what i really beleive, i love living in the most powerful (and in my opinion, greatest) nation on earth :usflag:... if europe joined, US would no longer have nearly as much attention, power, or money on a global scale.


i also think that there would be way too much confusion in terms of building up europe into one superpower. you would have people speaking french in one corner, norse in another, and a completly diversified society. now there is nothing worng with that, in fact i support it. the US is very diversifed also. but in america, diversifacation occurs all over, not just groups of people in their own niches. if europe formed, people with completly different beleifs, who dont even speak the same language, and live nowhere near each other, would call themselves members of the same country. it makes no sence.

alright i've said some of what i wanted to say, i could go on but i barely know where to start saying why i think its a bad idea.

-Brian :cool: heh now i kinda want them to become one...

[kda2011]

I think the fact that the EU is very important in Europe that it could happen. But if Europe were to Unite I think it would be a fallout for some European Economies. Also it would a change that would be very hard and take a long time. Just imagine if North America United. I doubt most of you would like that. Think of all the text books/maps/globes that would be inacurate after the change. It could not only hurt Europe but could even hit the United States Education Department. I think it would cost over 10 Billion Dollars in the US Schools alone (I dont know how much all the textbooks in the US Cost but it would be a blow to the US Schools! Not to inagine all over the world. It would be a blow to every countries Schools. Anyone who wants this to happen is not looking at the Finicial parts of this subject. Since textbook costs are already sky rocketing if this happened then it would hurt the world! Its very unlikely in mho to happen!

[redcar]

if Europe were to unite fully it would become one the biggest economic powers on the planet, teh resources Europe have are vast. even at the mo, Europe is economically very powerful. the US dollar has been trading at about €1 = US$1.20, thereabouts for the last about three years, just showing how strong the euro. if Europe were to unite fully it would become economically more powerful.

[LIsailer19]

heh now i kinda want them to become one...

because of what i said? i dont really know why you quoted me, if i changed your mind because of me being patriotic (and somewhat egotistical) to the US then sorry. i dont know why you quoted me though.

because i am extremly patriotic to Ireland and love my country so much. the thoughts of it becoming a federal state just really sickens me. i want ireland to remain always a seperate country at all times, and never become a federal state.

just like you love Ireland, i love the United States. and while i'm not european and dont fully care what happens there, i do agree with you. Ireland, (and all the other EU nations), should keep their independence. thats one thing i dont like about north america, your either mexican, american, or canadian, there isnt much diversity. in europe however, there are tons of different types of cultures all over the continent. the united states is sort of what europe might be like, in terms of having all the states. it seems weird, france, italy, ireland, etc, would just be states.

if Europe were to unite fully it would become one the biggest economic powers on the planet, teh resources Europe have are vast. even at the mo, Europe is economically very powerful. the US dollar has been trading at about €1 = US$1.20, thereabouts for the last about three years, just showing how strong the euro. if Europe were to unite fully it would become economically more powerful.

right, and sorry if i sound like an egotistical, american jackass, but i REALLY dont want that to happen. american money would lose a lot of value if europe united.

[redcar]

of course you dont, and its not being egotistical, but unfortunatly the USA has some serious competition, Europe, but also China as well as the rest of Asia.

[Whisper]

LIsailer19 I hate ta break it to ya hun but your economys already in serious trouble
and now with the emergence of China as a communist super power
Iran and North Koreas nuclear program
and constant attacks from Al-Quida
You could use a strong allie watching your back

I understand where Alex is comming from that would be like Canada and Mexico merging with America
dont get me wrong norht america having something like the EU would be great
but i wouldnt want it to be one country

so I understand the hesitation
and although I agree that they should stay speerate countries that ultimatly are soley responsible for there own sovernty they should be allowed to hold on to there history, culture and ideals
not to mention whod wanna be parta germany

BUT that being said it would be good to have REALLY close ties between all the EU countries
a unified currency
extremly secure outter boarders allowing for no need for internal ones
even a unified military so that if one country attacks all are at war (kinda like NATO)

As a canadian perspective a stong Eurpoe is nice for the Common Wealth
Anoter strong Democratic power on the world stage would be nice
espically one with a stronger and more stable economy then Americas
over the years Canada has become dependant on the american market
without us they flat out wouldnt be able to remain a superpower
still were ignored
and now with there dept and SEVERLY weakening dollar
I would like us to diversify into more economys
We've already begun that with the Asian market
working on ties with China and Japan for instance
as well as working more closley with Australia
so a strong and unified European Union would be nice


...dont get me wrong
I like america but..
http://www.unitednorthamerica.org/phpBB2/templates/subSilver/images/logo.gif
..naaaw

[LIsailer19]

LIsailer19 I hate ta break it to ya hun but your economys already in serious trouble
and now with the emergence of China as a communist super power
Iran and North Koreas nuclear program
and constant attacks from Al-Quida
You could use a strong allie watching your back

I understand where Alex is comming from that would be like Canada and Mexico merging with America
dont get me wrong norht america having something like the EU would be great
but i wouldnt want it to be one country

so I understand the hesitation
and although I agree that they should stay speerate countries that ultimatly are soley responsible for there own sovernty they should be allowed to hold on to there history, culture and ideals
not to mention whod wanna be parta germany

BUT that being said it would be good to have REALLY close ties between all the EU countries
a unified currency
extremly secure outter boarders allowing for no need for internal ones
even a unified military so that if one country attacks all are at war (kinda like NATO)

As a canadian perspective a stong Eurpoe is nice for the Common Wealth
Anoter strong Democratic power on the world stage would be nice
espically one with a stronger and more stable economy then Americas
over the years Canada has become dependant on the american market
without us they flat out wouldnt be able to remain a superpower
still were ignored
and now with there dept and SEVERLY weakening dollar
I would like us to diversify into more economys
We've already begun that with the Asian market
working on ties with China and Japan for instance
as well as working more closley with Australia
so a strong and unified European Union would be nice


...dont get me wrong
I like america but..
http://www.unitednorthamerica.org/phpBB2/templates/subSilver/images/logo.gif
..naaaw

well, the us dollar is weak because the united states is paying war debts, domestic debts, etc. our senate allows funding for the stupidest shit which puts us more into debt and hurts the economy more. george fucking bush has cause a 6 billion dollar surplus to turn into a 500 billion dollar deficit. that is why the dollar is weak.

i have to strongly disagree with you when you say america couldnt be a superpower without canada. while its a fact that the two countries are extremely dependent on each other, the US could still get along just fine without canada. also, 58.2 percent of all canadas imports are from the US. and while 85 percent of canadas exports are to the united states, that 85 percent of canadas exports is only 28 of americas imports. so dont make it out like canada couldnt survive without america. all those percentage numbers are on this website , just incase your interested :cool:

[Whisper]

Okay first
Bush isnt soley responsible i mean i dont like him either but its not ONE MAN that has fucked the entire american economy this has been a result of ALLOT of areas of the government, both parties and more then one president

and I siad canada is dependant on america
i never denied that

second
America is dependant on Canada with
oil
natural gas
uranium
grain
soft wood lumber
nickel
zinc
gold
diamonds
fresh water
Aluminum
Lead
etc.....(the list is really long)

its funny
your psycotic about the oil deposits in the middle east because the american dollar is glued to oil
yet i havent meet a single american that gives a dam about the fact that canada is the number one exporter of oil and natual gas to america
we have more then the middle east
and were a hell of allot more stable

if the middle eas has a minor problem with a pipeline
say its damaged (blown up by psycotic terrorists)
or set on fire
even for a breif time the cost of fuel in america SKYROCKETS
imagine if Canada finnaly got sick of your shit and said fuck you

during the summer months allot of states have controled black outs inorder to conserve power and try to prevent a catastrophic cascading black out which would spread throughout the entire power grid like a plauge

allot of your power comes from canada
imagine if we just flipped a switch

Have you ever tried building a house with hardwood?

How about the largest amount of fresh water of which allot we send to america?

America depends on us allot more then it would care to admit
fucking arrogance
worse then quebec


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Back on topic

I still love the idea of a strong European Union
because with the emergence of China
with Irans nuclear program
With the severe instability in the middle east ingeneral (Hamas, Al-quida, etc...)
North Korea....nough said
I would feel allot better having a strong and unified EU not just for the military or the security
but more importantly the economic factor
I hope Canada works on its ties with you guys

[serial-thrilla]

because of what i said? i dont really know why you quoted me, if i changed your mind because of me being patriotic (and somewhat egotistical) to the US then sorry. i dont know why you quoted me though.



just like you love Ireland, i love the United States. and while i'm not european and dont fully care what happens there, i do agree with you. Ireland, (and all the other EU nations), should keep their independence. thats one thing i dont like about north america, your either mexican, american, or canadian, there isnt much diversity. in europe however, there are tons of different types of cultures all over the continent. the united states is sort of what europe might be like, in terms of having all the states. it seems weird, france, italy, ireland, etc, would just be states. theres a difference between patriotism and just plain arrogance.

[LIsailer19]

theres a difference between patriotism and just plain arrogance.

thats true, and i'll admit to being the classic "arrogant (and patriotic) american asshole." :usflag:

--------------------------------------------

Okay first
Bush isnt soley responsible i mean i dont like him either but its not ONE MAN that has fucked the entire american economy this has been a result of ALLOT of areas of the government, both parties and more then one president

and I siad canada is dependant on america
i never denied that

second
America is dependant on Canada with
oil
natural gas
uranium
grain
soft wood lumber
nickel
zinc
gold
diamonds
fresh water
Aluminum
Lead
etc.....(the list is really long)

its funny
your psycotic about the oil deposits in the middle east because the american dollar is glued to oil
yet i havent meet a single american that gives a dam about the fact that canada is the number one exporter of oil and natual gas to america
we have more then the middle east
and were a hell of allot more stable

if the middle eas has a minor problem with a pipeline
say its damaged (blown up by psycotic terrorists)
or set on fire
even for a breif time the cost of fuel in america SKYROCKETS
imagine if Canada finnaly got sick of your shit and said fuck you

during the summer months allot of states have controled black outs inorder to conserve power and try to prevent a catastrophic cascading black out which would spread throughout the entire power grid like a plauge

allot of your power comes from canada
imagine if we just flipped a switch

Have you ever tried building a house with hardwood?

How about the largest amount of fresh water of which allot we send to america?

America depends on us allot more then it would care to admit
fucking arrogance
worse then quebec

let me start off by saying when you said more than one president, that was wrong. when our last president left office ,the american dollar was strong, and we had a 6 billion dollar surplus. bush made most of the decisions that put us into 438 billion dollars of debt. and while you are right and congress makes decisions too, in many cases, at the end of the day the deciding factor is the president.

next i want to say that the american dollar isnt glued to oil. americans dont go to the mall and buy oil. we're not obsessed with it like the whole world thinks we are. the reason oil prices skyrocket when pipe breaks in the middle east is because the corrupt oil comapnies are looking for any excuse to make money without regarding the enviormental or economic state of the country. the reason americans dont give a damn that canada exports oil to us, is because ameriacans dont know about it. and trust me, for canadians, that might be better. i can tell you from years of living in american greed and arrogance that if americans knew about canadas oil, the US would turn to canada, milk you guys dry, and drop you like a hot potato. its probably better to keep it quiet and let the american public continue to think that the gas sitting in their cars was once in the ground in saudi arabia. and i know that 85% of canadas exports are to the US, but that 85% of your exports only equals about 17% of our imports. 23% of the US's exports go to canada. That 23% is equal to 58% of your imports though. More than half of your imports come from the united states. Food, automoblies, medicine, industruial equiptment, telecommunications equiptment, etc. alot of americas needs are met domestically as well. the computer i'm typing on right now is being powered by electricity produced about 10 miles away in cold spring harbor, NY. the house im sitting in is built by material shipped from new england. the water that comes out of my tap is is from a water tower just down the road. the the food i eat is from california and other (mid) western states. all of that is american produced.

I think the bottom line is that both Canadians and Americans (in this case you and i) can agree that both countries are dependent on each other, and both play very important roles in the economic state each other, and of north america in general.

and now i'm done debating US vs Canada, lets get the debate back on topic...

[Ravenous]

Firstly I never want Europe to merge as one country, that would be disgusting. The EU and the Euro currency does have many advantages, but it also has its disadvantages. I don't want the UK to join the Euro, but the EU? I'm quite happy to stay in I guess.
You guys have taken this way off topic to a Canada VS America debate, look at the title "United Europe" so North America is irrelivant ok?

[Whisper]

I know were off topic its partly my fault we are
i've tried to bring it back on twice..its not working
so ima just gonna PM him probly

I can understand you not wanting it to all become one country
I just really like and respect the economic advantages of the European Union
I think it'd be cool if you could find a way to make it work even better
allow for more advantages
But I agree it merging to one country would suck
But how come you don't like the euro?

[redcar]

i can see why you wouldnt want to join the Euro Tim, cause the Pound is a very powerful currency, like GBP£1 = €1.44, GBP£1 = US$1.81, GBP£1 = CAD$2.02. thats a mighty currency. it just not economically vaible for the UK to join yet, but i would love to see them join in the future considering Ireland do most trade with the UK and it is a bitch having to change currencies and an even bigger bitch when its been trading at roughly that price for the last few years.

[JunkBondTrader]

because i am extremly patriotic to Ireland and love my country so much. the thoughts of it becoming a federal state just really sickens me. i want ireland to remain always a seperate country at all times, and never become a federal state.
Ireland becoming a state wouldn't make it any less distinctive. It's not the governing body that defines the individuality of a county (especially not in the case of you Irish :P) it's the people in it. And let's face it, we're pretty much united already (not the UK and Ireland, the whole of EU). The EU is already more powerfil than the individual govornments of counties. Let it be, thats what I say. I like the idea of people being united.

It wouldn't destroy the US, you guys just wouldn't be the richest/most powerful country in the world anymore. No biggy.

[rEpReSsIoN.?]

The reason I like the idea of a united Europe is the fact that Europe is made up of small countries like the UK and Ireland and are in competition with giants like China this might partially solved with the EU. But if the EU was the main government body think how strong Europe would be (not just lots of politicians who can?t get there voice across internationally, I didn?t know a few countries in Europe till like yesterday) and what a better standard of living everyone in Europe would have.
With federalism you can look after your own needs, and even without federalism u can keep your own traditions like the Welsh and the Cornish and the Scottish in the UK. People in Europe don't have that different cultures and ideals.
I'm more European than English even thou both my parents are English.

..........UK JOIN THE EURO...............

[redcar]

this is prob my reason at the deepths of it all for not being too happy about become a federal state. ireland fought hard for hundreds of years to be free from oppression. we only got it the last century and to be honest i want to hang on to it as long as possible, and not just become part of a big country again. i'm proud to be Irish, and i will never call my self European.

[rEpReSsIoN.?]

yay!!!!!!! someone agrees with me on the poll :)

i will never call my self European.

But ireland is more european than lets say the uk for it has the euro and stuff. And we all are european basically becuase our relatives are from the mainland.

[redcar]

ireland has the euro, but thats about as more european as we get than you guys. u could also say we are all African cause we all came from there at one stage. dont get me wrong the EU is good at some things, it has helped develop Irelands economy, and make us a very rich. but the idea of a super state is not good.

[rEpReSsIoN.?]

But europe would be so much better as a 'super state' it will proberly be the most powerful country in the worl,d and would shape the world with european values like america has done and look where that has got us now.

[redcar]

shape the world? we dont need to shape the world, that would disguist me even more if i thought we would do that. as we are we are already economically extremely powerful, we dont need anymore.

[Ravenous]

Yeah Alex, the Pound Sterling is a very strong currency and I don't want to loose it.
I don't want to loose my indentity of being British, I don't want to call myself European. Sure having Europe as one country would give us a lot of worldwide power, but I don't think it is worth it. Europe is already a strong continent with the EU, we do not need to become a country. Our individuality is what we need.

[LIsailer19]

..........UK JOIN THE EURO...............

The UK isnt going to join the euro, i dont think. the british pound is the strongest currency in the world right now. if they just joined the euro, yes the euro would gain more power over the dollar, but the UK itself would loose money.

[Charlotte]

I dont see a united europe happening. Too many cultural differences.

[LIsailer19]

I dont see a united europe happening. Too many cultural differences.

yea thats another point i was trying to make. you would have people speaking french in part of it, spainish in another, norse in the north, and there would be just too much confusion. things should stay the way they are. :cool:

[Bobby]

Ya think though. The U.S. has a bunch of spanish in the south. And people from different parts of the U.S. are all different.

[rEpReSsIoN.?]

shape the world? we dont need to shape the world, that would disguist me even more if i thought we would do that. as we are we are already economically extremely powerful, we dont need anymore.
lol but the world would profit from a better europe would it not? ( i mean the world excluding europe)

[redcar]

well the world is already profiting from us having a single European market, i.e. no tarrifs, free movement of trade, capital and labour. thats as bout as good as the EU can do to make the rest of the world profit, i cant see it really doing any more.

[rEpReSsIoN.?]

Also whats going to happen is a communist goverment is going to the most powerful country soon and we only have india to save us ... lol i sure india will do a gd job.

[kolte]

Europe doesnt have to become a united states. the usa is failing anyway, corruption, and greed...silent killers. our economy, no matter how powerful looking, is rotting fromt he inside and its just a matter of time before our stockmarket crashes. so, yeah, Europe becoming a super power now won't do us off....were allready done.

Europe United into one single country is unlikely, though the most intellegent of things to do for econoic and security reasons. They would become the sole power of the world, a fact which, at least to me, would be very badass. China, Japan, India....they are developing rapidly and in time will, if not allready, be the strongest industrial powers of the world. At this point in time, commerical power is in the hands of the states, but that will be short lived. More and more companies in the us are basing themselves internationally, no doubt sensing its insitbility.

Canada, Mexico, Central america, The West Indies, and the USA is what comprimises North America, tis not just the US, Canada, and Mexico. If the US and Canada joing, putting petty differences aside, I think everyone would prosper....however mexico. ha, i doubt any country would be foolish enough to join them. they are NOT going to help any economy, and there more corrupt and desicrated then the us has ever been or will be.

I'm not off topic, for this is a global matter, dealing with superpowers. right now, the states are the only super power. the arising asian markets are on there tail and the EU could, in fact, surpass all. They could, and should unite as strongly as possible. Economicly superiour US needs to fall, so that people open there eyes.

but all is not so well. global warming is, i'm confident, going to unite the world with a commen goal. not to stop it, its to late, but to defend against it. give GW 20 years, then who cares about the EU, the US, the Asian Markets......they will all be devistated, with floods....famine....fatality. It will be horridly beautiful....for what will kill us, will make us stronger, and it will take this global disaster to finally wake everyone up....or at least i hope.

anyways, i'm done ranting.

[WelshLad]

So the people who'd like to see Europe as one country would like to see our different cultures, different languages, different customs and traditions all vanish? Sure the E.U. is great (except that we have to take orders from Brussels rather than London, Cardiff or Edinburgh) but a superstate is fucking crazy.
But unfortunately we are on our way to that happening thanks to the euro currency. I don't know how 12 countries can say goodbye to their currencies, some of which have hundreds or thousands of years of history. And of course, our royal family would be disbanded and we can't have that!

[redcar]

we can say goodbye to our currencies because its economically in our favour to do so. we are now part of the single european currency which makes the single european market much much better. and we still have our irishness oon our irish euro coins, in the form of the harp so its all good!:D

[check it]

crap....I posted but I didn't like it...so yeah

[Ravenous]

I would be glad to see rid of our monarchy actually, but I like the pound for now, no to the euro!

[rEpReSsIoN.?]

So the people who'd like to see Europe as one country would like to see our different cultures, different languages, different customs and traditions all vanish? Sure the E.U. is great (except that we have to take orders from Brussels rather than London, Cardiff or Edinburgh) but a superstate is fucking crazy.
But unfortunately we are on our way to that happening thanks to the euro currency. I don't know how 12 countries can say goodbye to their currencies, some of which have hundreds or thousands of years of history. And of course, our royal family would be disbanded and we can't have that!

Ok has the welsh lost there traditions while in the UK not really (to a extent)... and if the United states of Europe was Federalist then there would be nothing to worry about you have to a powers to solve local issues like keping lanuages alive. But the royal family does not have to be disbanded it can just be a constitutional monarchy of an area like there are dukes and stuff.

[LIsailer19]

Ya think though. The U.S. has a bunch of spanish in the south. And people from different parts of the U.S. are all different.

in the US, the diversity is all kind of mixed in. In NYC, on any given day, you could probably count 20-30 different races, all in that same spot. Yea there are spanish in the south, but there are spanish in the north too. Diversity in america is mixed in, if europe became one country, the diversity wouldnt be spread out, you would have the irish where ireland is, the italians where italy is, the french where france is, etc...